abreast Durer created some techniques involving the Messer and rondel, so I assume so.....it could have been possible

+MarvelDcImage thats not true :) its not about who attacks first, but more about who can keep on being offensive and focused on hurting the opponent :)

+DarkTech92 The literature I have read over the years always states the attacker has the advantage.

That is true :D they often have the advantage. But just think about it a bit more openly. The attacker is not necessarily the one who throws the first cut. :)) the attacker is the one who attacks more! at least in my interpretation. It happened to me a few times, when the other guy just jumped in with a kind of zornhau, and i just stepped back and had an easy way to the throat. And vica versa, i fell into traps too. So the "who's the attacker?" is a tricky question by itself. Worth thinking about it. Btw don't get me wrong, im not a pro, im just mediocre with the longsword at best. Im just saying that the roles can switch pretty quickly, and those codexes are not written in stone. :) Cheers, and keep up the good work in digging the texts.

+DarkTech92 My point was in all of youtube they usually showcase the defensive moves. That is all I was stating.

ah i see :) well if you revise your concept of the attack and defense, you can get to other conclusions. always think about these basic stuff. even when you think you understand it. i do it too. 10 years from now on, i may have a totally different opinion about what fencing is really about.

Dharmesh Mistry hfhfug hkg

If the technique cannot be achieved easily and quickly from the given position - do another technique.

I think your problem may be in trying to carry off the grab using the cover recommended in the video. On this one and a couple of others, I think they have wrongly interpreted the type of cover one should use. This grab will work if you deflect the attack with what is known in other systems as the 'hanging guard.' This guard involves raising your sword over your head with the R hand above your R temple (more or less) and the blade sloping downward in front of you with the point toward the L -- not in the ochs-like position depicted here. At the same time, as you make the cover, enter immediately and seize the arm with your hand. This action is depicted in Talhoffer and Leckuckner and works as I have pulled it off more than once in free play.

Most depictions show the Ochs lying flat or at best angled. In the cases where they are not shown horizontal, it's usually down to the artist not wanting to paint the sword flat, because it's more difficult. Always take the sword manual paintings in their cultural and historical context. The people painting were often regular artists, not fencers themselves, so they would often paint something, that was in the cultural context considered beautiful or correct. Review the images shown here (even in the less horizontal versions, if you try to reconstruct the position of the sword with the hand placement, you end up nearly horizontal, because you can't hold the sword upwards with the cross guard above your hand - the artist just couldn't paint it better): www.schwerteln.de/wiki/pmwiki.php/Glossar/Ochs

+Matthew “Arkhane” Brown hold your ochs flat, get someone to pull your hands downward. Go back up, angle the ochs with the flat facing slightly outward, Then get someone to pull down on your hands. It should be more difficult, and in a mechanical sense, easier for you to resist downward blows

Vennificus​ The way I hold mine is either flat with the false edge facing outward (with my thumb on the flat of the blade) or at 20-45° with the true edge up and outward in a regular pistol grip. If you are strong in the bind, or winding to his weak, little else will matter. Besides, if you are weak, you can always redirect the strike and come back with a pommel strike or schnappen.