EP 32 Esther Meek: Covenant Epistemology
1:07:33
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@19battlehill
@19battlehill 9 күн бұрын
Where is the rest??????? Why did you stop?
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 9 күн бұрын
I'm so sorry, I am going to finish this. I'll get back at it soon. When I started this project I had regular days to myself (I have a full time job, do music and have 3 small kids) but things got really out of control with other commitments and I lost my day off. One major project (I have to prioritize paying projects) just finished so I'm going to get back at it.
@Rickystanicky22666
@Rickystanicky22666 Ай бұрын
Steve seems like a great man
@michailscherd5778
@michailscherd5778 2 ай бұрын
Flagrant recompile in thy stead ATI expressed ruin national ?! Gradient . . ?! Imputes studio'so acolytes uck.tihzs). ... Gotcha Lulu's on ,, L_ucipher .G.R.E.A*VE§ nulled-hIGH- jinks thousands T.§.T. preyduhchilders ,,.
@Screwtape316
@Screwtape316 2 ай бұрын
4:30 I haven't grasped this nuance until the last few years. Then getting to what you're describing at 6:22 is very recent for me, especially around "emotions can be your friend, and there's a level of trust" like you would a person. That was helpful!
@Screwtape316
@Screwtape316 2 ай бұрын
2:40 I was raised similarly, not so much from a religious perspective, as from a "first draft" (a la Paul vander Klay) where my Dad was raised in a home with mental illness and violence...but not in the typical form of male aggression, but from his Mom (and she was a lovely woman when she was well). So any time emotions started to raise in our household, they were immediately firewalled, and everything became about reason and rationality and "thinking through" our potential conflict. My Dad is an amazing man...but I didn't understand why/how this was a necessity for him until long after I was an adult parent of my own now-adult children. It gave me a ton more grace for him since there were simply issues and topics we can't discuss or resolve, and I have to be okay without forcing a resolution.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
This is relatable to me. My dad (also a sweet man) was the most volatile member of our family and prone to explosions of moral indignation and punishment. Not to the level of "abuse" but still enough that I ended up creating my own firewalls against my emotions. For me there was also a strange protective feeling towards my parents where I didn't want THEM to be ashamed of their actions. So I was "good" to protect my dad from himself. So many layers! THEN, I realized that one of my frustrations with my oldest son (who is very confrontational) was that he didn't give a shit that he was making me mad. I felt like he should care for ME but not triggering my rage. I know this would be "overthinking" for many people, but I am fascinated by these workings of the mind and heart.
@michaeljanzen913
@michaeljanzen913 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for your thoughts, Aaron! For me, initially it was logic and scientific reasoning that brought me to believe Biblical cosmology. That drastically impacted my understanding of heaven and earth. Now I am at the point where I believe EVERYTHING written there (including the parts when Jesus said he is coming soon - he did just as he said he would - read Revelation 20. I strongly suspect (and at this point, believe) that we are living post-Millennial reign. It doesn’t change the fact that Jesus still reigns and still saves! For a better idea of what I’m talking about - check this video out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIDdmIqdr7OoZ9Esi=liPNnHL9YkqHSsPq
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing Mike! I'll give the video a go, but I'm not sure I'll make it through a whole hour. I will daily commit to an ever-evolving search for truth. I remain as open to the truth as I can be considering my human weakness and my experience. Through God's grace I will continue. I also promise to remain as honest as I can possibly be.
@michaeljanzen913
@michaeljanzen913 2 ай бұрын
@@MourningTalkShow I know - an hour is long, but as I have said to you before, it is very advantageous to listen to things like this at 1.5X speed. It’s the content that is important, not the nuances of his speaking. That’s my opinion anyways, haha! You won’t regret listening to it, though. It is refreshing to hear a very different perspective than mainstream Christianity.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
@@michaeljanzen913 I can't listen sped up. My mind has not been able to stick with things that are too fast. This fellow speaks about as fast as I can process.
@michaeljanzen913
@michaeljanzen913 2 ай бұрын
@@MourningTalkShow Let me know when you have finished watching that. I am curious about your thoughts.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
@@michaeljanzen913 Ok, I got through it. I have mixed feelings. I've never been oriented towards interpreting biblical prophecies as historical predictions. It's been enough of a long term process so far to come to belief at all. I'm happy to do the work of Christ as it is revealed to my heart. Not that this is an agreement with this video, but I have not believed in a coming rapture for a very long time. Beyond that, this type of biblical thinking has not really been on my mind or heart.
@mlts9984
@mlts9984 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing, personally the belief in a new heavens and a new earth is not hard for me to accept, because I see the flaws and imperfections of this world as evidence of its nature as a prototype. I am greatly frustrated by the church going populaces acceptance of an ethereal dream of heaven as an escapist fantasy. People would have an easier time believing the claims of Christianity if Christians acted like their choices and actions had an impact in the coming of the messiah. Evangelism should look like an invitation for strangers to celebrate the feast of tabernacles with us.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
Yes, I think I agree with this. I am not willing to say that heaven is here and now only, but the frilly, fluffy fantasy version does nothing for me. :) We need to feel heaven now to want it later. Much of the fantasy version obscures our sense of duty now.
@Screwtape316
@Screwtape316 2 ай бұрын
I think this longing is something C. S. Lewis called it Sehnsucht. In his book "Christian Reflections" in the essay "Christianity & Culture" there's this wonderful footnote: "I am quite ready to describe Sehnsucht as ‘spilled religion’, provided it is not forgotten that the spilled drops may be full of blessing to the unconverted man who licks them up, and therefore begins to search for the cup whence they were spilled. For the drops will be taken by some whose stomachs are not yet sound enough for the full draught." Lewis, C. S. Christian Reflections. Edited by Walter Hooper, EPub Edition, HarperOne, 2014. Footnote 16.
@Screwtape316
@Screwtape316 2 ай бұрын
15:00 is what the really hard tension is about...you're articulating what I'm feeling, too. We get bits and pieces, glimpses and whiffs, which you called the New in your title...
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
Yes, as much as I don't consider myself a hedonist, the desire for consummation of these longings is pretty visceral sometimes. For me, some of my struggle comes from a combination of the modern expectation of immediate gratification (and confirmation) as well as decades of being promised religious mountain-top experiences that never came. Then there's the spiral of feeling that you've been denied these assurances due to a lack of faith. My biggest comfort is that my life now is so much more meaningful, having dropped the pretence that I must "believe it all" despite a lack of assurance. That said, I am still seeking deep intimacy with this God I can't seem to quit.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
I'm gratified to be voicing something that you're feeling as well.
@Screwtape316
@Screwtape316 2 ай бұрын
DW here...recovering Intellectual Christian. Seeking to integrate, not go tot he opposite side. Were the discussions you mention around 5:00 recorded? If yes, drop a link!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
Here's the talk on hell: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJvLaYyOqbZ9p80 Here's the talk on the resurrection: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoqtppuPrM2pirM
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 2 ай бұрын
I should have said that the desire I was experiencing is my FAITH in heaven, not my belief in heaven. In other words I'm acting in faith that the fruits of my labours will carry a reward. In this sense I can have faith in heaven without an expressible believe in it.
@laurieman55mccabe59
@laurieman55mccabe59 3 ай бұрын
they both mad
@laurieman55mccabe59
@laurieman55mccabe59 3 ай бұрын
to the interviewer your aye christain and aye fan of satan wow thats crazy
@julierobbins6216
@julierobbins6216 3 ай бұрын
Religion and spirituality are not the same thing. Lovely conversation! John is always a gem.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 3 ай бұрын
He is! And I agree with you. I don’t recall if I conflated spirituality and religion in this conversation but it is very possible I did.
@marshalmcdonald7476
@marshalmcdonald7476 5 ай бұрын
A difficult book but very much worth the struggle. 3rd time through I got it.
@karenwatkins1949
@karenwatkins1949 6 ай бұрын
*promo sm* 🤘
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 6 ай бұрын
I don’t think tech is neutral.And I tend to think that it is bad, as a rule. But I also believe that “what you meant for evil/bad, God meant for good.”
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 6 ай бұрын
I know what you mean. I guess what confuses the matter for me is that it I don’t know where we draw the line. Some tech is not bad but humans can’t leave well enough alone. So as an aspect of human nature, tech usually ends up becoming corrupted.
@ashikrana27825
@ashikrana27825 6 ай бұрын
amazing video
@ChrisOgunlowo
@ChrisOgunlowo 7 ай бұрын
Absolutely brilliant.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
Thank you! This conversation was a high point of my life.
@ChrisOgunlowo
@ChrisOgunlowo 7 ай бұрын
I can only imagine. I live in Scotland and every time I listen to Iain, I'm tormented by the thought of finding my way to the Isle of Skye just to hold his hands for 2 minutes@@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
It is so funny you say that because I have toyed with the idea of going to Skye all the way from Alberta, Canada where I live. If I actually thought I could visit the man in his home, I don't think I could resist haha. @@ChrisOgunlowo
@ashleyjwilliamshand
@ashleyjwilliamshand 7 ай бұрын
4th grade was my last year of Christian school... Mother and Father were never ultra religous, but the sunday ritual maintained the motions/dues to gain entry through the purly gates, My father seemed as uncomfortable in his sunday suit, seeted southern Baptist pews, as I felt. Mom loved it though, but solely for her getting to stretch her insanely operatic voice during hymns. Went to Sunday service 4 times a month, then to 3, then to 2, then sporadically. Could not have been happier. Fealt like I ripped off a itchy sweater the moment my face fealt the sun on my face leaving that building. The bill Burr Curling bit is spot on. My eldetly parents still fancy themselves Christians, and they're good people, but they're latching on in name only, and out of fear from. Hell. Sleepovers at legit Christian households was always a trip. They seemed so different and alien how they lived christianity. Jesus Channel on the TV 24 hours, no horror movies, no pop music.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for this evocative comment! I'm glad you found peace away from religion. This is a good way to express how "tradition" and obligation can strangle any real satisfaction in religion. Many people are better off without it.
@Jeremy0509
@Jeremy0509 7 ай бұрын
Campy as hell, Lucien plays in to this show well❤
@cathyjensen
@cathyjensen 7 ай бұрын
My goodness.....so pretty. I love it.
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 7 ай бұрын
Holy cow. You guys are talented. Wonderful! Lovely.
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 7 ай бұрын
13:25 (quality, meaning-filled) books are full of “more than you can process..” Yep. Icons. ❤
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 7 ай бұрын
9:40 A LOT of this is personality and temperament. Some people like games they can win. Some people don’t care about the typical games that people play.
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 7 ай бұрын
Another livestream?! Missed it. Shucks!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
Dude no pressure. I’m not sure this will become a regular thing. i’m not sure they’re a huge value add ha ha.
@cathrinewhite7629
@cathrinewhite7629 7 ай бұрын
New subscriber here. I am 61 years old. I have read at least a thousand books in my life. I read 2-5 a week since age 7. But my eyesight has always been quite poor, and with some very thick, heavy glasses my sight was acceptable. Now? I have almost no night vision, wear bifocals and now have glaucoma and cataracts. But I still love books!😢 I am able to listen to audiobooks as a compromise- but not while multitasking. It has to be a quiet room. Walking, cleaning, driving? I have to turn to music as a background companion. But I sooo agree with you- we are losing some spiritual capacity (as a species). One has to use the imagination daily, as a practice. I do creative visualization daily to keep this "muscle" in tone.😊
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
I admire you for making imagination into a practice. I completely burnt out on spiritual practice in my youth as I was a pastor's son and church was constant. But as an adult, husband and father I have been warming to the idea again; Not out of obligation or some puritanical, spiritual work ethic, but out of a desire to tend my garden so I can feed others.
@cathrinewhite7629
@cathrinewhite7629 7 ай бұрын
@@MourningTalkShow Similar issues here🙋‍♀️. My husband snd I were "survivors" of being raised in the JW cult. No spirituality there, just rote memorization and regurgitating of the doctrinal pablum we were fed. It was amazing to be free of it. We brought our son up by teaching him to live within a solid ethical framework, and let him research his own spiritual interests. I believe myself to be a spiritual being; I know there are greater things out there than little ol' me. But my beliefs cannot be contained by any building or groups🙏🏼.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 7 ай бұрын
I do attend an Anglican church and I see the benefit of practices done as an organized group, but I can't consider those places to be containing my faith or anyone else's in a complete way. I can't go back to obligation and fostered shame. @@cathrinewhite7629
@Jaymastia
@Jaymastia 7 ай бұрын
Transfiguration is the Christian goal.
@TJ-kk5zf
@TJ-kk5zf 8 ай бұрын
great conversation
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 8 ай бұрын
I wish everyone had the chance to have a conversation with John. He's the most generous conversation partner around.
@hundredbandzbulls
@hundredbandzbulls 8 ай бұрын
This is the man who literally said evil is real and good isn’t. And the next sentence later said he was a good man. He also said he believes in satan yet doesn’t believe in god.🤣🤣🤣 how can one person be so stupid?
@witch3944
@witch3944 8 ай бұрын
You weren’t as question forward or quick paced as other interviewers but I really enjoyed seeing you have a conversation and reflect. It was refreshing to see something human. It sounds weird but with everything being so edited, business formatted, algorithm oriented, just seeing a real conversation that didn’t seem aimed at the viewer was refreshing.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 8 ай бұрын
Thanks! That's pretty much my hope for this podcast. Keeping the guest and myself engaged. It is pretty much guaranteed to keep me from becoming wildly popular, but it has been really healthy for me.
@MrHwaynefair
@MrHwaynefair 8 ай бұрын
Love your spirit- and pursuit of Wisdom ❤️
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 8 ай бұрын
Thank you. That means a lot because my hope is to bring an honest spirit and a genuine pursuit of wisdom even if/when my thoughts change. The spirit is the thing that transforms me.
@michaeljanzen913
@michaeljanzen913 8 ай бұрын
I would love to talk with you more at length about this in person some time. All I can say is that I see where you’re coming from, but I have a different perspective (but it would be more effective to flesh it out with an in-person conversation). Have a good one, Aaron!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 8 ай бұрын
It's too bad some version of the disagreement can't be shared on here! I like discussion but don't get a lot of good-faith disagreement on KZbin.
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName 8 ай бұрын
Ride the dragon. ❤ Self-influence vs self-control. I like it. I’ll chew on it.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 8 ай бұрын
That's all I ask! ;)
@shari6063
@shari6063 9 ай бұрын
Thank you both! I learned lots.
@shari6063
@shari6063 9 ай бұрын
Wisdom! Excited for this.
@Silvercardinal7
@Silvercardinal7 9 ай бұрын
Thank you for recording this! I've been looking for an audio version forever
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 9 ай бұрын
That's why I decided to do it! I'm in the same boat. It is a challenging read and my own personal bias is towards audio as well. I have a hard time reading printed words silently for any length of time.
@johntobey1558
@johntobey1558 9 ай бұрын
This is excellent. Importamt to be recovered to modern day.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 9 ай бұрын
I agree. What this book is trying to say is probably more relevant than ever, even if it is harder than ever for the modern mind to grasp. I think people's need for this information is motivating them (and myself) to push through the difficult writing.
@dEAthlikEstAtic
@dEAthlikEstAtic 9 ай бұрын
can i just say, he's super cute. i'm not going to watch the video because i don't want to hear people just talking & i will admit i'm a little drunk. but i think that when i'm sober too, i just don't say it when i'm sober. heil Satan, real Satan. i'm not an atheist &i don't exactly appreciate them using Satan they way they do in not believing in the entity, but that's life. thanks for the time you took to make the video even though i didn't watch it.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 9 ай бұрын
Lucien is like a sexy rat.
@user-vo1ti9we1h
@user-vo1ti9we1h 10 ай бұрын
'Trickster energy' an excellent way to put it. These are serious issues, yet here they are discussed with a calm genuineness one can't help but respect. The ideals of christianity have been politically weaponized in deceitful quarters. In appropriate response one comes in the name of Satan, to politely point out deceit in progress that was certainly not instigated under his logo.
@restandtrust
@restandtrust 10 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@shaneri
@shaneri 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for the deep conversation with such a brilliant person!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow 11 ай бұрын
My pleasure, truly! My favourite thing about the podcast is speaking to these people from whom I can learn so much.
@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026
@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 Жыл бұрын
Fabulous interview! A conversation with Terry and Dr McGilchrist would be fascinating.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
Yes, I am hoping to encourage a few other people to speak with her as I think people with more knowledge of her field would uncover amazing insights.
@lizafield9002
@lizafield9002 Жыл бұрын
Whew. Sometimes, impatience with the tedium of endless abstract babble, from yestercentury, is less about our abbreviated attention spans, today, & more a natural, Huck Finn style response ("aversion"!) to antiquated academic abstract babble with no root in the soil.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
I take it you’re finding the book to contain too much babble? I completely understand that although I have now heard so many interesting writers referencing Owen Barfield that I am actually finding this book exciting. I think my interest in these specific ideas is overcoming my difficulty with the language.
@lizafield9002
@lizafield9002 Жыл бұрын
@@MourningTalkShow Thanks for replying. Of course you're right to be enthused, & kind to offer this. Especially when a U.S. state political official has been out there explaining that the earth is flat & that her tv is always showing "globes everywhere, so a round earth is a NASA conspiracy like climate change," it's for sure handy to reflect on epistemology & how we know stuff, how to answer conspiracy theorists, & how to retain beginners mind like Socrates/ Suzuki etc, AND a sense of human doxa, like Aristotle honored , as we all need common ground on which to coordinate & cooperate to stop destroying life on earth (for 1 thing). So again, thanks!
@jonathans.bragdon5934
@jonathans.bragdon5934 Жыл бұрын
Sorry young man, it seems to me you were a bit too driven by a desire to win the appreciation of the wise man you so much admire, that you took up time you and I could have listened to him. Please do try to form questions succinctly! 🎉
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
My goal with the podcast is "dialogos" in which (at its best) each person can form new thoughts and follow threads which are not pre-determined. In this conversation, the turn towards discussing desire was, I think, an example of that. I do understand that not everyone wants that from a conversation, especially since I am unknown and my guest is a modern luminary infinitely smarter than myself. I have, however, had very positive feedback from guests (including from Dr. McGilchrist) once the conversations are over.
@WhiteStoneName
@WhiteStoneName Жыл бұрын
Nice. Glad you're doing this. This book has been huge in my personal evolution of consciousness.
@kwan7278
@kwan7278 Жыл бұрын
He is so far ahead of his time. Amazingly! Thank you for all of your great content.
@kwan7278
@kwan7278 Жыл бұрын
Beautiful Dialogos!
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
Thank you! John makes it easy to engage if I just bring my real self in-the-moment.
@kwan7278
@kwan7278 Жыл бұрын
Wow, brilliant! Both the content and the presentation! The concept seems much easier to imagine when transmitted verbally.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
Thanks! That’s how I prefer to process these kinds of things as well.
@shefo3916
@shefo3916 Жыл бұрын
1:07:23 Aaron, the way you phrase your thought here was so….atomic. Meaning a tiny thing that can explode a universe. I get how Dr. McGilchrist ultimately answered it, but I’m still transfixed by the stripped-down honesty of your observation: “Uncomplicated and total communion between mother and child…… “ I’m pretty sure you managed to articulate a huge thing in a short unassuming sentence. I have a feeling I’ll be unpacking this awhile. Thank you for that and for this very thoughtful interview.
@MourningTalkShow
@MourningTalkShow Жыл бұрын
Wow, what a wonderful, affirming comment! I think about that particular thing a lot, to be honest. It seems to me that a neglected parental analogy for communion with God is between mother and child when the baby is very young. We shy away from it because it seems to diminish our own agency in the exchange, but we may need to loosen our grip on that perceived agency.