you some ass on sombra damn

This is the worse take I have even seen about ow

Honestly for me (specifically my experience not saying this is everyone), 5v5 is such a better feeling overwatch. Angles can be taken without two tanks that could shut down every single angle. Also just the QOL of shorter queue times makes OW so much more enjoyable. Not facts, but im saying this is how I feel and probably a lot of others as well. There will never be a way to balance the game to a point where everyone will be happy and thats something we should be very aware of. Tank will always be an unpopular role, thats how it is for every single game no exception. Needing two less of them very clearly significantly shortened the queue times. Its not about just “needing more players overall will shorten queue times.” What is needed is a more even ratio of 1/3 dps, tanks, and supports and tank is just not as sexy or desirable as a role to anyone. No matter how much tank as a role and experience is changed for the better, there will still be less of them. Nobody is willing to accept the fact that tank as a role is something that is not desirable for majority of the player base. No matter how many people play OW, the ratios of the playerbase will generally stay the same. Its shown that it was able to temporarily sway previously with the introduction of priority pass, but after like the first week or two queue times went right back to normal. I want an OW that is alive and healthy and is thriving. Something that could appeal to as many as possible. It is my belief that queue times and playability are a more significant portion of one’s expectations when playing than wanting some more damage mitigation and complexity with a second tank.

Overwatch players are the only mfs I know who will report someone for playing the game. Even just locking Lucio for a fight gets you reported

the punisher's shotty is a tank buster for sure

Sure but how about the interesting theory and analysis of character design. One is aim should be rewarded by higher numbers. This is rewarded in dmg or healing. Aim is an easy skill ceiling to implement, requires hours to hone the skill and should be rewarded. Its very simple reward with numbers. The cause and effect is that flex players *usually* needs aim. And the role in effect to the team is usually output of healing or damage. Suzu, immort and nade are all pretty much burst heals or saves. And all causes flex supports role to focus on tanks more due to tanks higher hp to fill character design ofc as a tank. Since flex requires aim and is rewarded consistent dmg through pure dmg through LoS and shooting. Usually their output as dmg gives the value of additional pressure in another angle is another cause and effect of what a flex support is. Character design is all about balance. And *usually* higher numbers like "snipers" are balanced in low mobility. If character designs are all balancing the stats of power, agility/mobility, tankiness/survivability. Naturally they should have less mobility. So in the opposite case you would have character design balance of high mobility but low power output. These are main supports. The key part is to provide a skill ceiling for these main supports. Usually mechanical skill in mobility, ability or tactics of their utility. Thats the cause of effect of main supports being more specialized in mechanics of wall riding, mercy movement, brig mechanics and tactics. And its all because aim is a skill that takes SO much hours to hone. Instead they are granted survivability and mobility which gives a cause and effect of the main support role to be able to peel for the *usually* immobile flex support. As well as their low healing usually makes their role to prioritize the squishies as character design to have lower hp. Of course as blizzard is designer its impossible to create a theory when blizzard can make a broken character that has mobility survivability like kiriko and is why kiriko is a problem. And all heroes are not perfect. But even in real life scientists observe patterns makes theories. Finds something new and adjust and put details to their theories. What comes up must come down but it doesnt work in space. They just further tuned the theory. We made theory of dive brawl poke, off tank main tank, angle, pressure etc. It would be sad if we stopped observing the pattern to composition theory and just concluded to "hero pools". The hero pools have a pattern. Observe and theorize it.

Spilo thank you so much ❤

The problem with tank in 5v5 is in the fight between role and agency. Role is the opposite of agency. If you have a job, then you do that job or you lose. Choices that you're forced to make aren't real choices. Without real choices, you have no agency. A job is the opposite of a game. You're not playing if you have to do something. With one tank, you must do the job that is expected of that tank or your team simply loses. With two tanks, there is room for playstyle choices. Not only that, but those choices are intuitive. Do we need peel? One tank peels while the other holds frontline. Do we need to punish? One tank punishes while the other peels or holds the line. The declaration of the main tank gets enforced in different ways by different off tanks, creating agency and interest. With one tank, that tank has a job. That is binary. The tank is either doing their job or not. Work isn't play.

Man even reading the comments under this video, people seem to refuse to even acknowledge anything other than the game itself affects how much they enjoy it. I think it's rare people enjoy games for that long tbh. I got into Overwatch recently (had some experience in other shooting games), and tbh I really enjoy the format more than the other games. Am I a particularly high ranked player? No. But I have fun! And once I stop having fun, I'll play something else (though I've been enjoying the game for the past year through the patches everyone has said the game is dead for).

People getting mad about one tricks is the dumbest thing ever like let people play what they want wheneverthey want it's their gaming experience

If I'm "burnt out" from anything, it is from waiting for them to balance the game better. Supports have been op af for way too long and there is so much sustain. I also really miss playing tank duos and I'm over the amount of grinding they want you to do for the slightest rewards, not regaining lost features like endgame cards, lfg or a stay as group button that lasts more than a couple seconds. The crazy shop prices became insulting. If I'm burnout from anything, it from the game getting worse and worse instead moving in the right direction. To be frank, what a ridiculous take this is Spilo. This was my favourite game for years and it became too depressing and unfun to play anymore mainly because of balance but also because it felt like it was failing in every way - even outside of the gameplay. RIP OverWatch.

tank is just ok 5% of the time. i always run people over or i just cant play the game. i almost never have a game where its a fair game all the time

😢 4 weeks 😢

I thought torpedo would be a really cool dive ability because you lock onto a target and heal teammates, if a teammate Genji dives an enemy soldier Genji gets healed and the soldier loses 75 hp so it gives an advantage in a duel for your teammates, maybe the ability could be tuned so it is more effective at fulfilling this diving function?

here are my changes to her, not sure if its good but just want to yap her gun: we can try reducing the base dmg and healing and give a headshot multiplier for both, could be cool u have to aim for ur allies health her double jump: i think the height can be a bit more or faster since it just feels to jump over small rails and nothing else. the hover is cool though her glide: i think they can do something like mercy, mercy main here. when u ga normally and look down, u cant fly down completely just a bit. they can do something similar with juno where when she looks up or down, she doesnt move vertically the whole way just a bit. and their is a max to her vertically like mercy downward ga her torpedoe: for me the ability doesnt feel very impactflu for a long cooldown. like i use the speed to engange and when my allies are like 65% hp i pop the ability then i do nothing but pocket. skill issue probably. i think it can be interesting where they add like a charge mecanic like venture's ultimate that she throws sombra virus to enemies and allies like she has 3 or 4 charge and has to aim to her allies or enemies each time she wants to release a charge and have a weaker version of her lock on on right click and can release while using her charges which consumes are stacks. or keep the current version and add like u said being able to use her smg, i think the charge for far targets should be a bit faster since i find myself waiting kinda long to get like 3 targets but one dies but if i use ealier then the one i didnt lock on dies like its suppose to be emergency heal but not fast enough. her speed ring: i def thinks it need to go further and the slef speed boost is cool but i think allies that are near the projectile before it transforms into the ring should get a lower amount of speed boost then get the full effect when they refresh at the ring her ult: its a very cool idea, they should add something like moira orb where it goes kinda fast but slows down when allies are near or stops moving when allies are at the center of the ring. kinda like ayaka from genshin where her blizzard stops when it touches the enemy. i think the color should be more pronounce since its like a light white yellow transparent ish so the enemy dont notice it that much, if they make it more red or pronounce then the enemy will notice more, also add like a dmg boost effect and healing or a special effect just faint so the enemy can see they are buff and its danger

no…i miss the game. i don’t miss being a kid who was bullied and suicidal. i love your content don’t get me wrong but that’s a bad take. you’re basically saying that we’re blinded by nostalgia.

what’s burning me out is losing 12 games in a row and being stuck in plat.

I think what your friend said about reacting to things and needing to feel like he is on the edge constantly very much appeals to me, I'm a long-term main tank player, been so since 2016 and the thing I've found the most miserable about ow2 is the counter swapping aspect, I like feeling like I am on the edge utilising my winston bubble perfectly to maybe block an ana dart, or blocking a shatter with rein shield however when the best strategy feels like "oh just swap character to have a better match up" it doesn't feel very intelligent and I find it mind-numbing I've never enjoyed playing OP characters, I fucking HATE it when the sustain tanks are meta and as your friend said it feels like my brain is actively dying and I play worse because of that.

Honestly, Spilo, your suggestions I know come from the best place but that's not overwatch. If I wanted to be a punching bag I'd play WOW. Your idea basically means rework every single tank to have somewhat the same capabilities and see IF it works. When 6v6 basically means we solve 70% of the problem and it's just a matter of balancing correctly. Granted, the game will need harder work. But every game goes through that for attention span. For example, when league reworked dragons, or maps, etc. But your solutions don't solve problems of an asymmetrical game. The only solution I see for 5V5 is changing the concept of Tank/DPS/Supp completely. For example, league has DPS, Supp, mid, Top, JG. With specific visions for each. How do you fit 3 roles specifically made for a symmetrical game on an asymmetrical format with out making one of the three roles unhappy?

that primal 💀

Really? I enjoyed that video

I burned out once i realized Blizzard is more concerned with virtue signaling than making a good game.

I think the main issue tank has right now is just the efficacy of counterswapping in the most extreme cases constantly reinforcing in people that it's the right play. I've had games recently, not necessarily wins in which the enemy hasn't immediately swapped to counters and playing tank felt great. Perhaps my opinion is slightly skewed as a mostly ball/Winston player, but they might also be the perfect examples. Playing Winston into reaper/hog/bastion/Ana/brig feels absolutely fine when compared to playing ball into even just sombra/cass. Perhaps if you work out the fringe cases that feel too oppressive to play into, that may go a long way towards fixing it. I like a yap too

if tanks had a parry like fiora from league

We don’t shoot at the tank because it’s fun, we shoot at the tank to win the fight. If I got 0 ult charge I’d still shoot the tank. It’s the most dangerous and biggest thing on the field in most circumstances

I genuinely feel like the only way to fix tank is to weaken the tank roles offensive ability and allow them to provide utility that isn't raw stats. I wish instead of going "buff their stats" you give them more supportive utility. Like what if instead of Zarya face tanking with bubble and running the team over with inflated hp pool and 450 bonus hp with double bubbling herself, she is incentivized to bubble allies more. What if instead of DVa having micro missiles, she has something that provides utility to allies? I think there is ways to make tanks have more utility without having them overlap with supports and I think thats how you save tank. Blizz could do give them utility that allows them to initiate fights while also getting away from point anchors. Point anchors = CC sponges or unkillable bullet sponges. It could even be a passive for each archetype that enables their proper playstyles.

I guess when you want to play the 'optimal' game, one tricking is bad. But if you also want to have fun, express yourself, set your own goals or some other goal outside of just playing the game optimally, one tricking should be part of the game and fun it has to offer.

Cope in the comments

Your idea of a cc parry is interesting. Having a straight cleanse on a doom or ball would be boring, but it could be something crazy on a new dive hero that if you react fast enough, or even prime it and use it like Sigma eat, you could convert the cc effect and turn it into a skill shot under your control. Like you catch a sleep dart, have 2 seconds to hold it before you shoot it in another direction, or if you only want it to affect the cc effect, you get slept, you cleanse and it gets out into an orb you throw out. Even weirder, if you could react to like brig shield bash stun or something, cleanse and shoot it out. You may have covered something like that but i was cooking dinner while watching and thought of that

I feel like the tank’s sole presence on the field is taking too much attention, instead of my existence drawing attention it should more be my actions and playmakings that force exponentially more attention

the only time its acceptable to focus on the tank is when its a roadhog, you have 2 other DPS attacking their (separated) support, and you just killed their only other player. then absolutely IMO destroy the hog, correct me if thats wrong, but it ended up working for me (was playing Orisa)

1:01:09 You didn't answer this question. Why do top players complain about playing tank? I assume top players know not to shoot tank, otherwise they wouldn't be the top players. So what else is the problem? Is it a different problem or is there one problem affecting all ranks?

They should straight-up nerf tick damage volume based on the target's current HP amount. So it starts scaling down in volume from like 200HP to almost inaudible at like 600HP

"The tanks by nature who don't have tools or tactics to deal with that attention directly, maybe those tanks need to be more directly lethal." Dude I cannot believe you're saying this, because this was the original design philosophy of Roadhog. He was a tank that was squishy relative to the others, but threatened a full hp to death combo on squishies when landing a skill shot. They released Kiriko, who came out overtuned and has been a meta staple for the entirety of OW2, and instead of nerfing her when she enabled Hog to be meta, they nuked the one thing that made Hog good. Then after leaving Hog as hot garbage for a year, a decision endorsed by you, they took the feedback from the community and decided, fine we'll make Hog's one-shot and damage less consistent (But still left it in because it was the one reason that he was ever useful, and simultaneously what all the Hog players thought made him fun), but decided then make him tankier and more adaptable, and the community still whined (yourself included). I personally think the theory behind a brute that takes attention by necessity of evading a strong threat is good design, but you've continued for years to pedal this narrative that Roadhog is a poison to the game. I love a lot of the intelligent feedback you provide as a coach in your videos, and it's why I watch you, but I wish you would be more self aware in your inherent biases against certain characters like Hog and Junkrat, Torb, Lifeweaver, etc. that you clearly just have a personal disliking for. When content creators like you and Flats direct such strong hatred towards unpopular characters, suggesting they're the root of all problems in the game and always citing them immediately as the first example of bad design, you enable people in the community to direct toxicity to the people who play them.

We really need an off tank/warrior type role. Main tanks get cc and dmg reduction while off tank/warriors are more brawl/dmg focused. But then we would probably need 6v6 again

The game isn't fun. It's just too counter pick heavy and honestly just sucks being relegated to the most viable characters and makes matches feel the same. I want to play genji or hanzo or basically any projectile character and not the same old macree soldier phara match up. I just want to have fun, and the game isn't that. The game needs to change, and i feel like 6v6 would fix a lot of problems. Along with balnace changes to support and immortality abilities. There are too many problems and power creep is a huge problem with not just tanks but dmg and support. I just want a fun game, and im tired of the bs with the 6v6 argument cause it's brought up so much, and i feel like it's an endless cycle of agruing and something NEEDS TO CHANGE.

Tank will never be fixed through changes to tank. A significant amount of the Support and DPS roster just doesn't work in a 1 tank world. If we can't accept that heroes like Bastion, Kiri, Reaper, Sym, Bap, and Sombra need to be majorly changed then we will never reach an actually fun tank experience.

As a tank in WoW. I love having control over the flow of the fight. The tactics and position control is crucial. The ability to stun, taunt, disarm, body block, etc., are all mini-games that I get to play as a tank when I played Rein in OW1, but completely lost the ability to do so in OW2. I used to enjoy shielding up while their tank overextended because it meant their ana couldn't heal, but now, I just get my shield obliterated and nuked if I hold shield too long to try to manipulate the map in that way.

Ima be real the moment my hero shooter stopped allowing you to play your favorite hero, the game died. Even in 2 2 2 you could make any character work. I remember the top 500 at the end of OW being very diverse in terms of hero selection but now it’s all the same two/three characters

Reduce healing and spike damage over all. I think the healing and dmg numbers are way way to high. there are times i peak and take 1000 dmg in less than 2 seconds. and sometimes that's without ults and this is just from peaking a corner. When that goes away, spammy bs. then you can nerf tanks without them feeling worse. I just feel like the focus is put into the wrong things. Power creep is real and i know most people won't agree with me but I think it goes beyond just tank.

I feel like the way to make tank feel better for the tank is to shift the focus from HP to Mitigation because it is more skillful for the tank and it feels worse to shoot at for everyone else so they won’t focus as much on it.

Ball Hog worked just fine in OW1? I peaked at 3456 in OW playing nothing but ball and I often had Hog as tank partner... I had a 60% win rate at the time so I was still climbing... and that is back in the last couple seasons of OW1 when it wasn't uncommon for Diamond tanks to end up in Masters games.