My bad. Halfway through the video I decided I didn't really want to try and determine whether she is a mary sue and I just wanted to talk about her character and that's what I did but I kept the original title. The is marinette a mary sue section is really the only one that is in line with the argument and I didn't give it a good conclusion. I'll just change the title. And you don't have to make a video to convince me she's not a mary sue, I've already watched a bunch of videos that analyze her character and give good evidence to support the claim that she is a mary sue. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion and can still make a response video if you want. Let me know if you do, I would love to hear the points that argue against this claim.

She is my favourite character

Way better!

that's interesting

The dictionary description of mary sue: a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses. Ladybug literally unlocks the secret to giving special powers to miraculous holders and creating magical charms because she believes in herself. Everybody loves her and the ones that don't are villains. She barely ever faces consequences even though she messes up so many times. She is the only one able to handle a ton of miraculouses at once and she is really powerful as ladybug despite the fact that the cat and ladybug miraculous are supposed to be equal in power. Look if you want to like the show I'm not going to stop you but I respectfully disagree. Marinette is a mary sue.

She gets them from the miraculous and once she loses them she is done for and not facing Conseqences does not make you a Mary sue Chloè,Lila and Tomoe faces little to no conseqences for their actions and they clearly aren't Mary sues and Marinette does face conseqences just not the ones you want her to face whenever she "stalks" Adrien because it's creepy she doesn't reach her goal it's only when she's herself then she is getting closer to him and Alya even calls her out on it and she stops with it Gabriel also managed to that she only managed to be weakened by mutiplying herself so only one individual of her was using 2 at a time

@@Owell_Owl Chloe, Lila, and Tomoe are villains, they are not the main character. It doesn't hurt the story that much if villains or side characters are overpowered and they barely face consequences (Apart from being a bit unsatisfying ) but it does if the main character is like that. Also, that's not true, everyone hates Chloe, she left Paris, her mom and dad don't love her, she doesn't get to be a miraculous holder anymore, and she's replaced by her half sister. Lila will get defeated eventually and I honestly don't know about Tomoe because I rage quit the show. No hard feelings tho, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

​​Aren't you tired of defending Marinette the stalker?? A bad role model for children?? I always find you defending her everywhere Do you want our children to watch a show like this?? This show should be canceled and rerun with Adrian as the main character. His life gives important lessons to children, so stop defending a bad girl.​@@Owell_Owl

She "stalks" Adrien to show children what not to do in life

Avatar the last airbender is also a kids show and the main character is faced with the genocide of his people (I think that's a bit darker than emotional abuse) and Zuko is physically abused by his father. The early seasons of winx club and my little pony also tackle some pretty mature themes and it works. I would actually argue that it's really important to teach children about abuse because it helps them identify when someone, including their parent, is doing it to them which will in turn help them know not to normalize that toxic behavior but to know that it is wrong. Aang makes everyday mistakes and he's even younger than Adrien is supposed to be but he is still the mc. So does Twighlight sparkle. I agree that it does take more than an interesting backstory but Adrien does do different things, he also has a double life just like Marinnette. They could make him the lead without rewriting him, it worked in season 2 when he had more of a focus. It's just that the writers have an agenda against him but tbh what I would really like is if they were genuinely equally important. Both should be main characters because both could be quite interesting if the writers wrote them better.

Writing for children rules change all the time so something like smoking for example would not be ok to show now but and not every episode can be like Gorizilla or Simon says theres a video and yeah Adrien is definitely the less Better written and the one that gets less development than Marinette who is still well written as a whloe despite her bad writing moments Heres a a fully detailed Video on why Miraculous is the way it is apart from bad writing m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaevpJZnnJ2gfq8

@@Owell_Owl I mean yes but the only reason the standard of writing has changed is because Hollywood thinks that just because sth is written for children it can be written in the dumbest way possible but kids deserve well-thought-out writing too. Also, Marinette is not well written, they failed her too, she could have been but they messed that up.

@@Owell_Owl I don't think the writer's have any excuse for not writing miraculous in a better way. Because the movie was also for kids, but it was written well despite a few issues and it didn't let terrorists like Gabriel get away with their crimes.

first epsode of season 1

Ya, the fans not dropping the show makes no sense, I dropped it after I watched the first episode of szn 4

Agreed 100%

How is it toxic?? 😂

​@@salty_fishy9387yeahhh, I also think that sentence is a bit confusing

I am sorry, but the girl literally broke into Adrien’s house three times, stalked him, followed him to Shanghai, knows his schedule for the next 3 years, stole his phone, plucked a strand of his hair, almost kissed him as a wax statue (despite not knowing at first, still creepy), sniffed his pillow, hated Kagami when Adrien went out with her, keeps him in the dark, and lied to his face about Gabriel being a hero. The only thing missing at this point is her becoming a control freak. If, you like Marinette that is fine, I just feel bad for Adrien, he deserves better imao.☺️

I am talking about his relationship with Mari, not him as a character.👍

​@n.abookgirl2457 oooh you meant that his relationship with marionette is toxic. I agree, I just didn't get what u meant

Ya because they've butchered Marinette's character too tbh so making them equally important would prolly be the best writing decision. I also think making them equal would make their parallels (like how being a hero has taken away Marinette's freedom while giving Adrien freedom) more obvious. That was how it was in season 2 and I really liked that.

It's stupid and feels like a copout by the writers.

​@@UnholyGrave834 fr

I never like it,at first when it was a theory was fine but make it canon absolutely not!

I've watched videos about it but I'll get round to actually watching it one of these days.

@@thexreaderspeaks whole heartedly recommend it. It's really good. The miraculous i've been asking for Since 2017

Ya if Amber could do it, so can Chloe. And I will talk about Marinette, I have a lot to say about her.

I didn't even know that they gave Felix of all people a redemption. I agree, the could have written her regression better if that's the path they wanted her to take.

@@thexreaderspeaks Yeah. Instead they just repeated "look how mean she is"! And her siding with Lila? Lila proved her before that she was a manipulator! Why would she trust her? Insurance maybe? Ok but the goal of it begin her becoming a mayor is all kinds of stupid. She's 16 teen. Where they're trying to make a Gideon from Gravity falls? It would maybe work if she would be a top mayor and betrailed Lila, and not side with Monarch. Still a bad plot twist.

@rosa_floera Also, they technically redeemed Sabrina. Remember, she did horrible things to Marinette as well, and is just as bad as Chloe and even worse at times, but she gets away scot-free all because she couldn't take the pressure. [Making it worse, the S5 finale she got a miraculous. Same with Kim, you know the guy who apparently gave her trauma]. ☠️

Thank you and sorry about that. I added captions and I'll be recording my next video using a mic so hopefully that will help. And you're so right, ML creators really are super hypocritical its frustating

@@UnholyGrave834 I'm convinced they pulled that trauma backstory for Marinette out of their posteriors (coz I can't use certain words) tbh. Their character writing is so bad it's laughable. I wouldn't be surprised if hypocrisy is their favorite pastime

I bet he had very little to do with season two's writing and that's another reason why it was good. And ya, it makes no sense how adults can commit crimes and still get redemptions but Chloe can't. You're right, his reasoning is so circular.

@thexreaderspeaks Thomas didn't work on S2. See Thomas went on vacation to write S3-S5 and left the other writers to work on S2.

Exactly. Great points. I think Marinette's character is butchered from the start when they made her a stalker... wtf. She's probably one of my most disliked characters, very unsufferable and abuses her power for selfish reasons. Disgusts me and reeks of written by incel... Haha. I mean, that reflects the creators' view I guess. Because every time they get backlash, the show creators just double down and act in the most unprofessional and petty way ever.... no matter if the person on the other side is a kid or if they were polite and constructive. They need to stop using social media so much. I must also add by Thomas telling fans that Alya's friendship to Marinette didn't really matter because ML's focus was on the romance explained another reason ML sucks, every man is for themselves, and that actually ruins the love square romance than making it succeed...

@@rosafloera You know what bugs me about Thomas..? When someone presents criticisms [valid/non-valid], Thomas ALWAYS had this standoffish behaviour, especially when you criticism/question his writing decision. I remember the man-child made a comment about him having the best animators and being better than Disney/Pixar, and someone polite called him out, Thomas decided to be offended and blocked her. With the progress of Miraculous, I've always noticed this weird favouritism and flanderization for Marinette's character. Despite being one of the two main leads, Marinette's presence can be exhaustion, especially with the known fact she's a part of EVERY PLOTLINE, especially in plots where she doesn't need to be present at all. Honestly, I'll just stick to the MLB comics and fanfics because they did a way better job of giving the characters and story more depth than the actual series. Hell, I've even decided, just for funsies to write my own version of Miraculous and, according to the folks who read and messaged me about the few episodes that I've published, is better than Miraculous. The only way for Miraculous to redeem itself is a revamping reboot and getting Thomas away from the scripts.

She's in all the stories because she's the main character this isn't an esemble cast if you don't like a show with one lead that sounds like a this show isn't for you problem

Adrien… He is also destroyed by Thomas

Kagami and Luka. They had potential, and were even smart comparing to others, but they were debuffed in order to not take the spotlight from Mari+Adrian dynamic.

the guardian su-han, i mean i though he could teach the main characters a developed and a true trust, but no they decide to throw that.

Mari

Yeah her actions make sense because of her background but the problem starts when she has no problem stepping on others or hurting others to elevate or protect herself i.e the servant whose tongue she cut off just to ensure her lies didn't get exposed.

I'll check it out, thanks for telling me :)

I didn't mean for it to come off as me supporting royalty and the rich but I think it's just human decency to not go around touching people without their consent (I did make this when I was 15 and mad at Rashta tho so I'm sorry it sounded that way) I agree that Rashta is really complex but I believe that although she started out as a victim, currently in the webtoon, she is very much an abuser.

and yeah, the webtoon should have probably had navier address and even try to fix the slavery problem

@@thexreaderspeaks oh you don't have to worry Abt that comment I understand from Your pov how her behavior was too strong. Anyways for navier tbh I feel like the reason why a lot of ppl call her a Mary sue or in general a bland character is the fact that the author didn't give her a flaw ( this is very common in webtoons because they try to make a gilrboss character) we can say her lack of showing emotions is a flaw...but is it really? All the characters stand out better because of their flaws from the trash emperor to rashta to even the ml ( forgot his name 😭 ), except for navier, she's written to be smart, nice, and elegant. That of course if you if you ignore the fact that she turns a blind eye to the slavery and only help the peasents when it helps her or for a cause she care Abt ( like the wizard girl who lose her magic ) but the author ignores these stuff in general. I feel like making navier make mistakes for example allowing the slavery to continue only for there to be actual consequences ( for example maybe the slave start to run away and make a rebellion but I feel like the author wouldn't do this cause clearly this gonna make the fans hate navier, so I think make the rebellion happen in another country who had sever problems with slaves, or make her get to know a slave and see their pov, being that in politics a lot of ppl at that times owned sex slaves that they bought with them to most hangouts, or something like that ) so that in the end navier will have to choose between allowing slavery to continue or let the economy fail and make the aristocrats and the Nobels hate her cause she ruined their easy money and also the peasents disliking her cause now the economy is falling, this will lead to the consequences of her getting hated by ppl and also questioning if she was a good option for a queen and even could be used as " oh well she might be a spy from her previous empire who came here to ruin this one so that the other empire can colonize us " showing how propaganda works, and then to really show how smart she is make her actually have a plan on how to get the economy back and this will lead her to make connections with the brains of the empire and the revolutionaries making her have stinger allied and helpers for the future of the empire and also show her that peasents deserve the right to free education and not the just the gifted wizards . In that way you show how navier was at first a woman who was blinded by her priveliage, as she sat comfortably on top of her throne with a crown on her heard while forgetting where the fabrics of her throne came from and how the Jewels from her crown were bathed in the blood of the slaves in the mines. And also by using rashta as a good divider to showcase the difference in the worlds of the rich and the poor. For example how both navier and rashta face mysoginny but the way rashta faced it was more extreme then navier ( if I will to give a modern example of this think Abt how white women in America suffered under the patrachial system and how women of color suffered in the same system, they both dealt with mysoginny but woc dealt with it in a more violent raw way). But of course that's a wishful thinking cause again this is webtoon 🤦, and also the author clearly didn't make much thoughts in character building like how they threw that slavery is very rampant but didn't do anything Abt that fact, not even Abt fixing it but the author never bought it up outside of the context of rashta and some other two slaves but we don't see much from them. And even when it comes to the imperialism nd propaganda and public views and religion role in politics, they were all done badly. I understand that this is a Romance story not a political one ( even tho there's a lot of politics) but it's such bad story telling Surprisingly I don't think the ending was bad but not in the way the author intended, in the end FL and ml go live their life when rashta dies in prison and trash emperor doesn't lose much, I feel like that's pretty realistic with the way society there works. Trash emperor survives and lives on cause he's priveliaged for the fact that he's a man and a Nobel. and the slave born get fucked over and dies in a lonely and sad way. Idk pretty realistic for that era I think in the end what ruined this comic for me was that I just got more mature for the shitty writing ( seriously when there's so much you can do with characters like rashta and navier and ml, seriously rashta omfg so many opportunities lost on making on of the greatest stories in webtoons) and also the very very shitty fandom who doesn't have much brain cells and also surprisingly mysoginistic ( not in the traditional way but like a more discreet way ) and very annoying but that's like for majority webtoons even in good comics like AISHA ( I recommend this so hard you have no idea, it very good at depicting issues such as hypersexuality, classism, mysoginny, trauma....ect, you can easily understand the pov of most of the characters and it's not even halfway done, plus it's very original with the plot and the art is very good ) they exist

HELL NAW im not reading all of that lol

@@possum3933 AH HELLL NOOOO ANOTHER ONE

I guess. Thx tho, and stop stalking me

Ig she is cute

she is an awful person

I love Rashta <3

Good points

So yeah, j think you're right that she's dealing with some serious mental problems. I'm 90% sure she has PTSD, just seeing the Viscount makes her faint, and she's untrusting of everyone around her. Ugh, I want to give her a hug.

Also, about attacking others that lose no threat to her. That's usually egged on or suggested by Viscount Lotteshu or Duke Ergi. It's important to remember that as it is her only friend and sole confidant is someone who's trying to undermine her for the sake of the Western Empire. If you remember the Duchess Tuania scene it doesn't look like she's actually going to say what she does about Tuania, so Ergi brings up Lady Alessia to scare her into it.

I didn't even think about the fact that they may have killed an actual child for Rashta to believe that her child was dead. This story is actually pretty dark.

@@thexreaderspeaks The Viscount says he'd never kill a child with his blood. He never says anything about the children of slaves in his estate.

The sad thing about rashta is that I believe that she and Alan had a complicated relationship, the manwha removes alot of scenes, some that allow us to see rashta feelings more, she begged Alan to run away with her but he refused, he did care about her but not enough to leave with her, In the beginning when he finds out that she's in a relationship with the emperor he's truly happy for her, all he asks for her is that she at least try to be involved in her sons life, he begins to loose points when he can't stand the fact that rashta treats her daughter better than her son, n allen's eyes lan is a innocent child who deserves his mother's love, As for Rashta comment that her beauty is a curse, in the novel she believed that men only love her because she's beautiful, because of this she tries to get multiple men's attention to make sovieshu jealous, During the tea party where she only invited men, the novel states."she knows how to get men's attention, but she doesn't know how to keep it"