Yeah, I think they are clearly related to the veils, and that gives us a little more information to work with, but I was lamenting the lack of hard info we have about the whole situation.

@@GlitchX That's certainly possible, but unfortunately we don't have many details about the origins of certain Orokin aesthetic trends.

Yes! The Orokin are human, or at least were originally. I think it's safe to say they're a post-human or trans-human subspecies now; the extrasolar message from the Zariman ARG distinguishes between human and Orokin anatomy. But they view themselves as the ultimate form or apotheosis of humanity. Ballas does refer a few times to a fundamental humanity that the Orokin embody. 1999 takes place on Earth before the Orokin existed, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few hints at their origins there.

There aren't any documents that specifically lay out the exact power structure within the Orokin Empire, so we have to piece it together from multiple lines of dialogue. "Emperors" are only mentioned twice, both in older lore sources (Stalker Codex entry and Targis Prime armour, both prior to Executors being mentioned in the lore), so it's my belief that the concept of Emperors was later folded into the Executors. We have never seen any of the Executors respect or mention an authority above their own besides their collective peers (the other Executors). As for "the Seven", we have ample evidence that this refers to the Executors themselves. The Executors voted to decide criminal sentences; there were seven votes (Ballas: "Seven hands raised!"). Ergo, seven Executors. In Ivara's Leverian, Ballas is present inside "the Chamber of the Seven". Executor Tuvul calls himself a member of "the Orokin Seven" when talking to the Zariman colonists - this, I think, is the strongest evidence that "the Seven" refers to the Executors. Unfortunately, there's no lore that directly says "the Seven Executors", so we sort of have to figure it out from the context of these many quotes. Although the Slaughter at the Terminus was a one-sided victory for the Tenno, it was still chaotic and messy. We see during Jade Shadows that Jade specifically stopped the Tenno from killing the Stalker; who knows what other kind of confrontations may have taken place. Especially with the Executors, who were able to deploy the most advanced kinds of protection due to their rank. However, much of this is still unclear and certainly could be revised in the future if we get more clarification. It's possible DE may want to revisit the concept of the Emperors. Based on the lore we have now though, I don't think they were a factor.

Teshin says during The War Within that "By Orokin hands we Dax were given great power, great strength… but an even greater weakness. To obey their command. To never defy the kuva, the sceptre, the symbols of their dominion. No Dax can ever raise steel against an Orokin." Now, the mechanism for this obedience hasn't been established. It could be a sort of immobilisation protocol like we see with the warframes in The Sacrifice, or it could be genetic. Grineer loyalty and obedience has long been established as a genetic trait, as mentioned in Emergency Exit, A Man of Few Words, the Pacifism Defect, the Pyrus Project, Kahl's conversations with Kaelli, and more. Only spontaneous mutations or gene tampering can enable a Grineer clone to disobey. Given the level of detail we have regarding genetic loyalty in the Grineer, I'm inclined to assume the Orokin used similar technology to keep the Dax in line - after all, why wouldn't they? But it hasn't been conclusively determined yet.

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The Sentients did complete their Solar Rail, though. It was used by the Sentients to return to the Origin System to fight the Old War, and also used by the Orokin to send soldiers to Tau. It was later destroyed by the Sentients in the final phase of the war. So if the Sentients had gone first, and built the Rail, then the Zariman would not have needed a Reliquary Drive. Regarding terraforming, the early concepts of Duviri said that the land was generated by the Zariman's terraforming technology running amok in the Void (stated in the TennoCon 2022 art panel). Although this was later changed, we don't know to what extent things were retconned - the Zariman having terraforming capabilities could still be canon from the developers' perspective (although no mention of it currently exists in the game). As for the quiz tablets, it's important to remember that even the questions not corrupted by The Indifference are still part of Orokin propaganda, and not necessarily entirely truthful. All this being said, we don't have exact confirmation of which came first, and either is technically possible. However, I view the fact that the Solar Rail was completed as pretty strong evidence that the Sentients were the final attempt (and partially successful at that) to colonise Tau.

​@@OrokinArchives yeah, i'm not saying it's fact or that it's certain that the sentients came first, but in my personal view is seems more likely the other way around. although i would like to pose some questions and counterpoints for why i may think it could be the other way around. Isn't it possible that they finished their solar rail after the zariman jump? going to tau would take a lot of time, and lotus says that the journey was very long so before the Ropalolyst fight. going to tau without voidjumps is a long way, suggesting that they would have send far ahead. yes, the zariman was lost in the void for a while, but traveling and terraforming an solarsystem would take. also may i ask were the part is they state that they destoyed their rail? well it seems likely and i could see that happening, i couldn't find a source (i think i just missed it, not that it doesn't exist). also i looked up the 2022 art panel, altough they did say that the orginal idea for duviri was that it spread out from the zariman, and that it could do terraforming in the early concept, they also stated it was more of an emergeny mode for if the zariman would get stranded, suggesting that it was not meant to completely terraform tau. Also while true ,the ones in duviri are also orokin propoganda, (the second tablet is a good example, which suggest that it were loyal servants that made the rail, when we know it was the task of the sentients) would it not be more likely that they would have informed at least more, due to the nature of the mission? even the childeren were informed somewhat about void travel and to regulate their emotions, due to the dangers of have instabel childeren on board. Wouldn't it be more likely that they would inform that tau would have hazards if they wanted it to succeed and prep them for it? they weren't even given propper weapons as the incarnon weapons were more meant to be ceramonial weapons, suggesting that they expected little trouble. I'm not saying also that it couldn't be that the sentience came after, it was that way, but you can make a good argument for both sides.

I'd like to put out a major lore video every three months or so, and perhaps a more casual one in the same time frame as well. With the schedule I have now I don't think I can commit to more than that, but we'll see how things look going forward.

Thanks! Someone has to do it if DE won't, haha.

Possibly! I'd like to tackle some of the larger concepts within the lore first, just to establish a base of knowledge, but in the future that's definitely a type of video I can explore.

We get lazy lol when actually pronouncing words just like any other language

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@@justsogusto4979 Orinially in lore it was implied that Ballas alone had blue skin and an elongated arm due to his own ego. The Orokin valued symmetry and beauty, hence why the healers who had one long arm were shunned.

The lore around the Orokin's aesthetics is rather spotty. The Lorist healers were asymmetrical because the Lora device protruded from their right foreheads, not because they had long arms. Their healing devices were implanted in their palms, which is the source of the Infested Ancient's healing ability, but they are never stated to have the long arms of the Orokin.

The Orokin were fundamentally self serving and greedy. They would never fix anything if it didn't serve their interests. They wanted to rule, so they did. They wanted to consume, so they did. But help people? Make things better? No, because that would have involved personal sacrifice. An undying race that stole the bodies of others would never sacrifice anything of themselves. They only ever took.

asshole's used 2SV and now nobody can access the tech

They're only really aesthetically similar. They're similar if looked from a "space hell used for transport" perspective. The actual inner workings and fuctions of both otherwise however are vastly different.

Yeah from space hell very similar, AI attacked both groups and ruined things.

@@lemonhead9628 I was talking about the comparison between Warp and Void specifically and not Warhammer in general. The similarities between Warp and Void begin and end with "space hell". Also, hyper-intelligent AI wrecking a big space faction is hardly original.

If you're interested in these things, I recommend you check out the fanfiction "Children of the Lotus" in which the worldbuilding is basically what you described

@@platinumgames1314 Wayy ahead of you, already read that before. Was a nice fic, though the grammer could certainly use work. Wish there were more Wh40k-Warframe crossovers that are actually good.