He would defiantly benefit from intervention but he had a number of other health issues that required the focus to be on that and since he was in a super supportive school, he got through with accommodations based on his medical needs. More intervention by someone who really understood his needs would have helped but he's in Pre Calc even with the math difficulties and uses his formula sheet VERY effectively. He's now working on intervention to address many of the issues I brought up. GREAT questions!

100% agree. I often talk about the role of fluency and am met with blank stares.

@ do you have any ideas for a parent to counter a school argument for a 2e kid that a reading speed more than 2 grades below where she should be is not having an educational impact (and thus need not be intensively addressed) because her standardized test scores look fine and grades look super? The only argument I have back is that the reading science is fluency DOES impact comprehension…period. They are saying they aren’t seeing evidence of impact in her data.

Attention is an over arching element to ALL subtests. I see a shift of 7 to 30 IQ points (Average to Superior/Very Superior and thus in the gifted range) between treated and untreated ADHD. I agree that that Block Design score seems low relative to Figure Weights. Did they do Visual Puzzles? How was that score? Given what your telling me about math and building skills, I'd certainly explore ADHD/attention issues.

@@explainingdyslexia visual puzzles 63%. Not sure if relevant but VCI 124 so these scores really stand out.

So, that's a lot of variability in scores. With verbal tasks, attention can be less important (range of acceptable answers vs. ONE). The trick is brighter kids can mask difficulties. If you have the question, there might be something there worth exploring. However, they (your child) should be part of the process based on the suggested age (I'm assuming High School aged).

@@explainingdyslexiathank you! Do you do virtual consultations? I agree they shld be involved.

Yes. If you search for Explanations and e-mail the office, my practice manager can give you all the information.

There are different theoretical perspectives on the role of processing speed in intelligence. For example, the KABC II has the ability to score with or without speed bonuses. The Stanford Binet is a pure power test, with only one timed subtest that does not give bonus points for speed. The Wechsler scales have always emphasized speed as a part of their test but there are scores available on some subtests (Block Design) that can be scored without the speed bonus. The WISC V - Process version allows further exploration into the role time plays for a student but takes a long time to administer.

Actually, I blew that, it is the WISC Integrated version, not the WISC Process

We are glad this is helpful to you and really appreciate the feedback.

Books /tests in audible format, extended time, access to scribe, use of computer for writing, exemption from spoken foreign language, priority registration in high school and college, formula sheet, modified due dates for homework/projects, projects broken into small steps, use of calculator, noise cancelling headphones, writing samples, reduced homework load, prompts to turn in homework, and voice recording for lectures (my biggies but I have a database of over 250 accommodations or variations of accommodations) but this is a great place to start!

My practice name is Explanations. If you Google my practice name and my name, you should find my website and there is a general inquiry e-mail that will get you to me.

Common mistake!

I've thrown your numbers in and we will do a video on your numbers the next time we post!

Absolutely! Yes, kids can mask or the IQ can underestimate what they can do.

HI, We will put this on the to do list. This is difficult to do, but I remind people that we can teach kids how to think and reason deeply. Hence, when we talk about any subtest, we typically offer ideas on how to improve skills used on each subtest.

We can add that to the list of videos. It is difficult and sensitive. It is reasonable to point out that we now look at individuals with intellectual disabilities to be life long learners despite the school system ending their education at 21 y, 11 m, 29 days. There are more programs for students to help them become more independently functioning adults. I would encourage them to not think about numbers or limits, but to meet them where they are and build skills.

George had 9 eggs. He broke 4 of them. How many eggs did he have left? Each classroom in a school can hold 30 students. Howe many classrooms would be needed for 270 students? Harry has 250 baseball cards. Bob has 1/5 the number of cards Harry has. How many cards does Bob have? They have much more complex items than this, but I won't provide any other examples as I don't want to violate the effectiveness of the test by giving to parallel an item to the actual test.

@ Thank you :)

So, I won’t confirm or deny a specific vocabulary word someone might comment on as recalling from the test as it would then affect the ability for the test accurately measure vocabulary. People would then think they should study a certain word to improve their score and then the measure does not assess their general acquisition of vocabulary. Yes there is a brief section on the vocabulary subset that has picture recognition but it is at the beginning of the test and they would be considered simple vocabulary. It is used for individuals who might have an intellectual disability. Your daughter might have completed a picture vocabulary test like the Peabody Picture vocabulary test

Which has the examiner say a vocabulary word and had the students select one of four pictures which best demonstrates the meaning of the word .

But there are not higher level/more advanced picture based vocabulary assessment on the WISC V. It is unlikely that your daughter would have been able to differentiate between the subtests from the IQ test and other tests that might have been administered. I have people mistakenly identify all sorts of tests as IQ tests when they are something else entirely (eg for language, math, memory, etc.).

@@explainingdyslexia got it thanks. edited my original comment to take out the example word.

If you did not score low on some subtests, how would someone recognize atypical patterns? Remember, IQ tests are intended to predict how well you would function in a general education environment. Your pattern of scores would explain why you would get major concepts without difficulty but would make "careless" (hate that descriptor) mistakes on tests. You'd done a great analysis and are spot on with all your thoughts. You should ask to have the GAI calculated to see what your score would look like dropping out Arithmetic subtest. I suspect (although you've not listed all the scores) it would come out in the Superior range. Yes, clinicians don't get enough training on interpreting complex profiles (hence these videos). The major focus in most programs is therapy. If you've not tried stimulants, you might want to consider it. Likely if you did the IQ test again, your score would be higher in some areas. The score is not important in the sense that now you know you've got great reasoning skills (both nonverbal and verbal), go out and use them!

I'd have to see all the scores, but that is not a typical profile and would suggest something is going on with someone's learning.

We did provide a video on confidence intervals.

We'd be happy to review your scores and do a video on your daughter's profile. If you look up Explanations, you will find a way to contact us via e-mail. My practice manager will forward your e-mail and info and we will prepare to do the presentation.

@@explainingdyslexia done

Yes, there is a statistically and clinically significant difference between the Full Scale IQ and the Processing Speed.

Assuming this is on the WISC V , The magnitude of the discrepancy tends to occur in less than 10% of the population,.

@@explainingdyslexiathank you for the reply. My daughter had her WISC V and all her other results were over 130 apart from the processing speed 108. The psychologist didn’t treat it as a big problem and said it could happen. However your video does ring the bell. Would you recommend for 2e or other learning difficulties test? She also had the WIAT, Writing 140+, Maths 160+, Reading, Spelling and Listening around 120. Thank you.

@@Lily-b2i I would always do a Gray Oral Reading Test with the responses recorded. Most people can't catch all the errors. I've been using the test for over 25 years and I still don't hear all the errors and have to listen to the recording. It will frequently pick up problems that other measures won't. Did they do a nonsense word decoding? That also tells you a lot. Then the normal CTOPP 2 and some measure of rapid naming.

@@explainingdyslexiathank you for the reply. The psychologist did the Pseudo word decoding 117, reading word decoding 126, fluency 123. I will check with them about the grey oral testing.

You are absolutely right. I think I was thinking about kids I know who are not as fluent as adults. I'm also familiar with Memory Place as well.

There are many different ways to work on working memory. I typically go to games as it makes it more fun. Any game where you need to hold information in your mind to make a decision would work. For example, logic problems like Sudoku and logic puzzles both require working memory. You can make it easier by taking notes, and harder by holding it all in your head. Chess is also a great working memory game when you plan moves ahead. There are also games like Distraction, Master Mind, Rush Hour, Set, and Rules (game in Apple's App store). You can also work on working memory by learning a variety of memory strategies. As one other commenter noted, adults can learn a tool called Memory Palace. A simpler place to start is Memory Pegs. Hope this helps.

Kim and I have added this to the list. Check back to see when we post on it.

Yay!!!! Thank you! I’ve have your channel on my alerts:)😊

Yes.

Did they calculate a GAI? Did they suggest further evaluation? You should ask them for rating scales to see how your child is functioning in class. They should not limit access to advanced classes based on low working memory and processing speed. I'd push back.

Yes! And it is helpful for them to understand why the difference is meaningful. IQ tests are intended to estimate ability and often kids with diverse profiles the Full Scale IQ does not accurately describe their strengths.

So, I'm going to take each of your questions as separate replies as you ask GREAT questions but really complex ones. Let's start with the "grade equivalents." The test publishers specifically state/explain "Grade equivalents are not related to what the student any particular grade to be capable of performing or what they're being taught." Hence, grade equivalents are not actually useful. Let's unpack this. The reality is there is no real conversion to an actual "academic grade." What the test publishers do is have an AVERAGE score on a subtest that is for a particular grade. For example, if a child is in the 3rd grade, and in the 3rd month of school [notation 3.3], they might have gotten credit for reading 54 words correctly. This might be the AVERAGE score (number of words right) for all the students in the 3rd grade 3 month who were used to norm the test. This number correct score would place them at the 50th percentile rank. The publishers of the test who publish grade equivalents then "curve" or mathematically spread out grade levels based on scores. So, another student who reads 6 word more correct (60 words, would have the score curve to a grade equivalent of 4.7 (4th year 7th month) and a kid who reads 8 words less is at a 1.4 grade level. That does not suddenly mean I can hand kid at the 4.7 grade equivalent a book from the end of the 4th grade and have them read it fluidly and comprehend it. Now let's look at the a student at the normed "1.4 grade level" could have missed 8 easy early words, but then went on to read 8 more advanced words correctly. The grade level is then completely meaningless. If they miss "map" because they read it "mop" but then go on to read "seventeen" correctly, how do we determine their "grade level?" Parents LOVE grade levels because the word feels familiar and meaningful, but it is not what they think it means. Kim and I will do a whole video on this in our next couple of sessions. I would love to know if this starting to make sense to you so we can expand on this when we put this video together.

Your next question is how come the internet says a learning disability is life long. Another great question. I would argue that we can't draw the conclusion that it is life long. Researchers have shown that if you take an adult who struggles to learn to read and you look a what area of their brain lights up when they do read, it is not the same area as a "fluent and efficient" reader. HOWEVER, if you take those adults and you provide intense intervention for 8 WEEKS and you go back and look at where their brain lights up, IT CHANGES! While their brain does not light up in the same place as the "fluent and efficient" readers do, it does move. This principle is called neuroplasticity. Scientists used to believe that only one area of the brain could control one function and that it could not be moved. That is no longer considered fact (which is why people with traumatic brain injuries can learn to use other areas of the brain to restore different levels of functioning). That said, there are some underlying processes that we don't yet know how to train around. The big one is rapid naming. We can improve phonological processing with good direct instruction and we can work on orthographic processing and get benefit. However, some processes we just don't know how to address. We also have the challenge that students who are identified late in life have lost years of practice and it can be really hard to catch that up. This leaves gaps and holes that can follow a person for life. (I'm a walking case study in this as I have to correct word after word after word as I write this response even though I've dramatically improved my reading and writing!) So, life long challenges does not mean that SIGNIFICANT gains cannot be made. An individual may dramatically improve their academic performance but not "catch up" to their true intellectual ability. There may continue to be a gap, but we can significantly close the gap and provide a better foundation for life long functioning.

Aright, on to your last great question - A wisc is just an assessment of puzzles and tasks, how can they say it is permanent .I have seen a couple psych ed where I just feel that I sense the child just doesn't , gives up flippantly IQ scores always have confidence intervals which say that the same person given the same task on a different day might score a little higher or might score a little lower. You might have just read a news article that used a vocabulary word you had not seen before and you looked it up the day before your assessment. You walk in and that word, just by luck, happens to be on the test. You lucked into being exposed to the word at the right time and the definition stuck with you. In contrast, the night before the IQ test, you could have had a bee sting and ended up in the ER needing medical intervention for a severe allergic reaction. You tell the administrator that, and they say they don't think that it is a big deal and they give you the test anyway. Your fatigue and the residual adrenaline could affect your response speed, alertness, fatigue level, etc. (BTW - I NEVER test someone who is not fully rested and feeling good - you get one shot, get someone when they are at their best so you get reliable data as many significant decisions are made off this "magic" score. I have the luxury of doing this in my practice in a way that other clinicians may struggle with). So, lots of things can affect the IQ score. That said, if you take a "typical" individual (meaning no significant learning or mental health conditions) and you given them an IQ test and then repeat it a few years later, there tends to be a relatively small range in the variability in scores (e.g. the confidence interval for a 104 IQ might be as low as 99 and as high as 109 so roughly 5 points either direction). Hence the "stable" comment on IQ scores not changing. I will tell you I frequently see changes in IQ scores in my students who I test over the years. One of the most significant that I see and have mentioned in videos is the difference in scores for a student with ADHD on and off stimulant medication. I've seen as few as 7 points shift up and as much as a 30+ point improvement. I've also seen students who get good intervention that works on underlying problem solving skills (e.g. executive functioning from a Speech Language Pathologist) and they are better able to persist and work through complex problems. You also mention students giving up. This is where the "craft/art" of giving an IQ test comes in. A good clinician will sense that something is happening and will try to address it. This may be providing appropriate encouragement (e.g. I can see how hard you are working), giving them a break or discontinuing testing all together. I also explain to all students that tests are always going to start out easy and then get harder and harder and harder. Just because an item is hard, does not mean that they are not doing well but that we are finding out how much they can do. This relieves some of the feeling of "failure" around "I must not be doing well because this is so hard, so I'm going to give up." IQ are complex, controversial and nuanced. They are not the end all, be all for any individual. A person is way more than a score and the score does not define them. Helpful?

@@explainingdyslexia thanks for your replies... yes but parents and teachers node while receiving percentiles and other scores. however practically speaking they just want to know because teachers can buy and look for that grade level material. for common folk knowing that someone is in the 14 percentile doesn't help them look for and choose material, teachers are too busy with too many students to deceiver a students profile even if they could. sadly the system is overwhelmed.

@@explainingdyslexia makes sense I just know people can take these tests as almost blood work and they really are just how well can you do this test at this time. that said they are useful.

Kim and I love reaching people who otherwise could not access us!

If your daughter's RAN is low, and their reading fluency is low, your daughter likely has dyslexia. I would find a qualified and cross trained clinician to get her the support. The school should recognize the score being this low and also offer support. By the way, the intervention for this is not drill and kill (reading individual words over and over). There is a great book on Fluency Instruction: Research-Based Best Practices by Timothy Rasinski, Camille Blachowicz, et al. Apr 16, 2012 that can be a great go to for concrete research based intervention.

We do have videos on dyslexia. Our channel is Explaining Dyslexia

@@explainingdyslexiayes I meant specific to surface dyslexia. :)

School Psychologists in WA state are required to have a the minimum Master's degree. Most school psychologist that I work with only administer an IQ test and one achievement test. There is little to no thought in what they will administer and why. I do know about a Level C qualification as I have one. I have a colleague who just finished her degree in New Jersey. She happened to get a PysD, but the majority of the students in her program only got a Master's to allow them to work in the schools (New Jersey and New York). I agree that I might have drawn a conclusion that it was the same nationally. However, I would point out that on the NAPS website, who state to get a credential form their national boards "Applicants must complete an organized degree program of study that is officially titled "School Psychology" that consists of at least 60 graduate semester/90 quarter hours." 36 units is the minimum number of hours most degree programs require. Yes, there are many people get a Psy.D. in school psychology.

@@explainingdyslexia thank you for your response. Now I’ve learned something. I’ve worked in Georgia and North Carolina and even though evaluations are the majority of what we do (much more than 1 IQ and achievement typically), we are trained to do counseling and crisis response. We also do a lot of staff, student, and parent consulting to make sure kids are identified if they have a disability. There are “Diagnosticians” who do just achievement testing to help out. There is a shortage of school psychologists. Again, thanks for letting me know something that I did not. I think it’s great that you are explaining assessments to parents.