I would agree that custom cut would be ideal, of course, but for most of us we aren’t able to source suitable spruce logs locally. As another side note, runout can happen if a tree is twisted, regardless of how well-cut the planks are. Engelmann spruce is especially bad for twisting as it grows. Actually if you can clearly see the centre joint on a guitar it’s usually for this exact reason. When a top is opened up into a bookmatch the runout is opposite on one half than the other - this means the light refracts completely differently on one half of the top from the other making it look darker/lighter.

@@zachlefebvre4825 I guess I'm spoiled, we have a firewood lot that sells logs for 4 cents a pound and I buy 28" diameter logs quite often. Spruce is a bit rare, fir and larch plentiful. I so hate to see them burned. My bandmill guy needs at least 4' long and 8 is better.

@@ZifikareNice!

Aww thanks!! ☺️

Thanks Chris! These were so fun to play. :)

Thanks for letting us know.

Semi-hemispheric fret ends are almost always (very very few exceptions) installed inside the edge of the fretboard. That’s because the fret ends are shaped before pressing/hammering in the frets. Standard fret ends are filed up to the edge of the fretboard - flush. In the guitar making industry a semi-hemispheric fret end is “most perfect” when the end is as close to semi-hemispherical as possible, so it is a thing that some luthiers strive for. Are we talking very small differences? Absolutely! Would you still agree with the claims that semi-hemispheric fret ends give the player “more fret real estate”, even after watching this video though? If you prefer semi-hemi frets that’s totally okay, everyone can have their own opinions and there are no wrong opinions.

@zachlefebvre4825 They aren't always shaped before installation. And even if they are, you always compensate for final shaping by leaving the item a bit long on the initial cut. That's how woodworkers and metalworkers have been doing it for a million years. If it sits back from the edge, that's poor craftsmanship. The question isn't whether one or the other leaves more real estate. The question is whether the difference is in any way meaningful. Unless your guitar was built on the absolute edge of playability and your playing is so precise you run right up to that edge, it doesn't matter. So there's no objective debate. It's a question of personal taste and whether the instrument is worth the work.

Unfortunately I don’t have a video of that process, but I’ll try to explain it here. The way I do it is the bottom edge of the fingerboard ends up 5mm above the top at the neck joint. So right at the neck joint there is a small joint on either side (bass/treble) where a 5mm supporting piece is glued under the fingerboard - this piece I make with a narrower, longer part that extends into the neck shaft (simply rout out the matching 5mm pocket for this fingerboard extension support piece). Of course I make this piece much larger than the fingerboard past the neck joint so that I can trim it flush at the end. I then rout for my truss rod and carbon fibre rods. Important: I extend my carbon fibre rods almost to the tip of the fingerboard support piece. I believe my CF rods are 3/8” tall so they end up being shaved down to 5mm from the neck joint and beyond. Then it’s just a matter of installing the truss rod, gluing the fingerboard then carving the neck up to the fingerboard. Does that make sense? -Zach

Thanks! And sorry… I got better I promise! 😉

Thanks for the honest feedback! This was an earlier video and I dialed back the music considerably on subsequent videos. You’re totally right. Thanks for the compliments as well. :)

Just clearing up some misleading information that gets said about semi hemis, based on actual facts.

You are totally right - thanks for bringing this up. I haven’t revisited this video in quite a while and when I made this tailpiece I was very new to using a grinder! I now place the sheet face down on the driveway (gravel) with a length of lumber under near where I am cutting so it’s sturdy, then I can use my foot to stabilize the sheet while I cut. Again, thanks for the comment and the really good suggestion!

- Sounds like you have semi-hemispheric fret ends that actually are beneficial. This isn’t usually the case, but if your fret ends are basically rounded, but not a true semi-hemisphere then there’s a chance you could get more fret real estate, especially if the ends are beveled at a 15 degree angle. The downside there is that if you have more fret real estate plus the fret ends are rounded, not beveled, then they are going to stick out more and “feel pointier”. The common theme that I see in the high end luthier biz is that the more perfectly semi-hemispherical shaped the fret ends are, the “better quality” they are. It sure looks pretty!

That’s a problem I’d recommend having looked at by a professional. It can be fixed a number of ways, but a bridge pin hole that is too big could be an indication of one of a few larger problems.

Haha, yeah I suppose. Our KZbin channel is more geared towards guitar makers. So a good number of our videos wouldn’t be that helpful for those fixing a guitar. Hopefully you still found the video interesting! :)

Hmm. That’s a good point, and it would explain why some people seem to feel attacked by the video - even if it is just dispelling myths. Thanks for the feedback!

Glad to hear you are finding the videos helpful! I haven’t don’t tests, but I’ve always been somewhat concerned that it wouldn’t be strong enough as a butt joint. The extra length of the tenon really does add a fair amount of strength. With no tenon the rod down the heel could break off the short grain that is between it and the body… maybe it wouldn’t happen, but that would definitely be a potential hazard. Sound-wise, I would guess that you wouldn’t be able to hear a difference between the two.

That is cool to hear. Thanks for sharing.

@@redtreecollectiveguitars Great channel! Thanks for the courteous reply.

I am so glad to hear that. Thanks for letting us know.

Those are allied lutherie light rods. They can be flipped to work both ways.

Just to clarify, if I had a fast and cheap way of doing semi-hemispheric fret ends I would still not do them. If I could charge more for them and they took less time than standard fret ends I still would not do them. No matter what size fretwire you are using, a properly-done standard fret end will always have “more fret real estate” than any form of semi hemi (that’s the shortened terminology I’ve heard used most often in the industry). If both fret ends went to the very edge of the fretboard the standard fret end would have to be bevelled to 45 degrees in order to end at the same length as the semi hemi (this is proportional to the fret size, so fret size doesn’t matter relatively). Are there guitars with terrible standard fret ends which are like a gradual slope down from the crest of the crown? Definitely! And I’m sure we can agree on the fact that these are the worst. Also, when a string gets pulled off of the end of a fret it really doesn’t matter what the shape of the end of the fret is. It will always sound bad. I don’t want this comment to come across as argumentative - I respect all opinions and viewpoints. You are of course welcome to have your preferences. The purpose of the video was to educate about some of the false claims (proven by physics and real luthier-world experience). I am sure these claims are often made without knowing the actual differences, but I also know for a fact that some of the world’s most renowned luthiers are charging extra for it and falsely promoting the narrative that semi-hemis are “better”.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I don't know what this means. - Eric

Hahaha, there is a striking resemblance. Yikes! 😁

Thanks! Yeah, it’s a big milestone!

Thanks! Yeah I’m super excited. 🤨

It’s a bit more time consuming, but it has a few benefits. 1) you can make a fretboard with fairly small scrap pieces of wood 2) it’s more stable to changes in humidity 3) its never going to crack Thanks for watching!

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thanks again!

@@red58impala- No problem! :)

Thanks for the feedback. That video is long gone so we will probably have to do another one when we have a chance.

The jig is only for the neck set-back. The side-to-side (I think that’s what you’re referring to as the yaw?) is done by lining up the centre line on the neck with a centre line on the top. When I place the neck blank on the body I sight down the lines and adjust where necessary.

I am very on board with modern ways of doing things in lutherie, in fact I take many (what some would consider unnecessary) steps to make the guitar more responsive while remaining structurally sound for years to come. My neck joint method is just one example, it takes about two days of work to execute when a simple dovetail neck joint could be done in less than an hour. Why do I do it? Because I personally believe it’s worth it. Me not doing semi-hemispheric fret ends is not out of laziness, it is out of the fact that they are actually making the playable width of your frets (for string bends) narrower instead of the sometimes advertised “extra fret real estate”. With that being said, I can respect that some people such as yourself prefer semi-hemispheric fret ends. So many details and aspects of a guitar are purely subjective.

I can tell you from first hand experience that Zach is not lazy. I would also say, if he believes what he is saying to be true and is giving what he considers to be reasonable reasons, then it is not gaslighting, it is discussion. I am very glad you are happy with your choice to get rid of your old guitars but it is important to remember that you can be happy with that while others still will not like semi-hemis or agree with your opinions. Thanks for commenting. - Eric

Thanks.

It sure has thanks for noticing. We are hoping to be in a place where we can be more consistent with our uploads.

Feel free to turn off the sound and use closed captions if the “music” bothers you too much. That way you can still learn from all the free content based on my years of experience without having to endure the sound of the “music” I chose for the video. 👍🏼

@@zachlefebvre4825 I did., I have skills. My 59 years of making stringed instruments is an advantage.

Cool, it’s a great neck joint and there seems to be more and more variations as time goes on. Glad you’re finding the video helpful! The extension of the block into the neck isn’t super critical if your block fits into the mortise nicely. I haven’t had issues so far but I’ve considered going further into the neck to make sure I’ll never have an issue. As for the heel block extension, I go with 7/8” thick before sanding the top to radius and such. My upper transverse brace matches that height. And that is plenty. 30mm is wayyyy more than you need.

I agree, it’s an aesthetic choice more than anything. They look fantastic!

Yes! 🙌🏻

Thanks! Cool, that’ll be a fun project :) The jig I’m checking the neck angle with basically just has 3 protrusions, one at the bridge location, one at the neck joint and the other (which sticks out about 2mm extra) is at the nut. It helps me dial in the setback of my neck so that my neck projects to the right height at the saddle. Alignment side to side is eyeballed with a centre line on the neck and top. Does that answer your question?

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thanks Zach, all new to me as I've be using a more cumbersome approach with a straight edge and measuring gaps etc. Is there a source where I could find a plan on how to build your alignment/reference jig ?

⁠@@andrewdarnley4608- I don’t know of any plans, but I’ve made a few of these jigs by 1) jointing one edge of a thin board 2) gluing equal sized “nubs” where the nut, neck joint, and saddle go 3) adding a shim to the “nut nub” which is the thickness I want the setback to be.

Great question. I can’t say with 100% certainty, but so far these parts have held up well without any rusting. I like to wipe on Renaissance Wax (a microcrystalline wax) on anything metal I want to inhibit further tarnishing/rusting. It works great and I’d highly recommend it if you’re looking for added protection. It’s commonly used in museums for restoration of metal sculptures.

Haha, well, seeing as I am a guitar maker by profession (have been for 13 years) and have colleagues all over the world that build some of the world’s nicest guitars, yes. I’ve played guitars with “high end frets”. A good fret job with either semi-hemispheric fret ends or standard fret ends will feel good. The claims, though, do not make logical sense - and that’s what I show in this video. If you prefer semi hemispheric fret ends then great! If you prefer standard fret ends then great! I’m sure everyone online would appreciate it if you didn’t make accusations in your comments. Thanks for watching the video and I hope you do get something useful from our channel. ✌🏻

You are were right with that first statement "you don't know" the man. Zach is 100% in the guitar building which is why we started this channel. I am so glad that you have not any issues with rounded fret ends when done right. - Eric

@@redtreecollectiveguitars Everyone is building guitars these days… Many more started playing than ever before, and now it’s going back to where it was. It’s pretty shocking being you have absolutely no idea who I am. It’s shocking that neither of you have played a well made instrument is exactly what I’m saying… If the string is slipping off the board then either you aren’t playing it correctly or it isn’t built correctly… Regards from Nashville TN… Having professionals say the strings will find there why off the board if the ends are rounded is simply ridiculous. It’s something nobody complains about…

@@robertw1871- So who are you? I’d assume that if you were well known you’d have more than 2 subscribers… although you live in Nashville. That must mean you’re a famous musician? 😉 All kidding aside, if you like semi hemispheric frets then great. If you were told that there is more fret real estate on semi hemis or that they are more comfortable because of their rounded ends then you were lied to (possibly unknowingly). I’m sorry if this video made you uncomfortable… and if you believe I am wrong then I can respect that and I can accept that you believe that about me.

@@zachlefebvre4825 I just find it odd to lash out so vigorously over something that zero players I know have ever complained about… I get it though working with stainless is difficult and perfectly finishing the final geometry of those difficult frets is something I’d try and convince my customers they don’t want as well… Trouble is it’s become more and more standard even on inexpensive import guitars. Judging people based on number subscribers is probably not wise, it’s relatively easy to create a couple hundred accounts… Have fun with it…

No, otherwise a straightedge would work. The protrusion that contacts where the bridge goes is the same as the neck joint protrusion, but the one that’s at the nut is 2mm bigger. That means the headstock will be slightly tipped towards the back of the guitar… if that makes sense. This makes the strings at just the right height over the top (about 12mm).

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thank you very much

Hello!! 👋🏻 You’re welcome :) This guitar was my standard scale length, 64.5cm.

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thanks

@@msinger01- no problem at all! :)

Thanks for your concern - we usually do wear masks in addition to our shop dust collection, but it’s not ideal for videos.

Your solution sounds even better! Bushings are the ideal solution if you can get them in there. :)

@@zachlefebvre4825 If you've got a pair of Kelly forceps they make it a lot easier. Check Harbor Freight. I think they have a kit that doesn't cost an arm or a leg, and you can fine hundreds of uses for them. Amazon may also have the kit.

Thanks! 😊

Everything is subjective! If you find them more comfortable than standard fret ends then stick with those - likely your frets don’t go quite to the edge of your fretboard or they are more rounded on the top of the fret end, which is fine if it doesn’t cause issues with strings falling off the edge with string bends. As a musician that has toured across North America numerous times with a few different bands I, personally, have always stuck with the standard fret ends and prefer them.

Why are you assigning "lazy" to non rounded fret ends? This discussion is supposed to be about the difference when both are done well by people with experience. I am so happy for you that you are pleased with your choice of fret ends despite its shortcomings. - Eric

@@redtreecollectiveguitars because the main reason why builders/luthiers don't make the semi-hemispherical ends is time and complexity, in other words - work more, make less.

@@vitaliistep- Did you watch the video? This doesn’t have to do with why or why not luthiers do semi hemispheric fret ends. This video is dispelling the myths about semi hemispheric fret ends. Would I do them if the myths were actually true? Definitely! Would I be able to do them? Abso-frickin’-lutely I would! I know quite a few world-renowned luthiers that do semi hemispheric fret ends on all their guitars but say that they aren’t actually better despite that. The reasons stating that semi-hemi is BETTER are a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. And that is what the video is about. You are free to believe that they are better or feel better to you, I can’t tell you how to feel or what to believe.

@@zachlefebvre4825 use whatever you like, but how is it a gimmick, if I easily feel the noticeable difference for the better with the neck in my left hand? Also the semi-hemispherical ends usually done with filed tang on the fret ends, which is undeniable plus too. The fret sprout is a common problem on most guitars with regular fret ends.

Glad to hear it’s inspiring you to try new things!!

Backs and tops are 4-5 mm and the sides 3-4 mm. If your band saw is not dialed in stay on the thicker side .

As Zach explains there would still be less real estate. He also mentions why it is unlikely to be right at the end and some benefits of that. He is not saying that people should not do them or buy guitars with them. The point of this video is to show that claims of it being a superior method of fret ending is false. It is another option with benefits and short comings. Thanks for commenting. - Eric

@@redtreecollectiveguitars the amount you lose is infinitesimal. It also depends completely on string placement between the bridge saddles and the nut. That's totally under your control. Also, try this method for making semi-hemi ends it's sooo fast and easy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6DbhqppgMplh5I

Do you mean the soundport on the upper bout, bass side? It’s basically just a small port for sound to go towards the player. It’s reinforced on the inside, but the rest of the sides are single-ply, standard solid wood guitar sides.

At 4:45 in the video the sides don’t look single ply. I’ve never seen anything like that before. It looks really thick, but hollow.

I think what you might be looking at is the kerfing. Here is a video that Zach did on his treehouse account before we started this one. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpy7f394htSqfck - Eric

If you go to 4:45 there is something more going on. I see the kerfing, but that looks like a double wall on the sides. You can only see the kerfing from the top. If the sides were single ply, you’d see the sides of the kerfing, which you don’t.

@@thomastedder- Yeah, good observation. That particular guitar (and a few others I’ve made in the past) had structured sides. Meaning the kerfing basically goes the full width of the side. Quite a few guitar makers are using this method now, but I moved away from it because I felt it didn’t work so well in my guitars, particularly in how it affected bass response. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Hopefully that image didn’t make things confusing! If you have any questions let me know and I’ll do my best to answer them. :)

I’m pretty sure my tenons are 3/4” wide, but that’s mainly because my heels are quite narrow. With a 3/8” rod down the heel anchoring the neck that technically only leaves 3/16” of continuous grain on either side of the rod… it’s a bit hard to explain, but if my tenon was 3/8” wide and my rod down the heel is 3/8” wide, then my neck could very easily break away leaving the bolt and tenon behind. Does that make sense? Anyway, a wider tenon would actually be better - the wider you can make it within your heel the better.

Hi - thanks for the detailed reply - I really appreciate it - that does make perfect sense. I mocked one up out of the template I have and it was fine. I have to say though - you make it look easy and it definately isnt @@redtreecollectiveguitars

@@hereasafanofallsorts5164 You're welcome :) Haha, sorry! I suppose I've made a number of jigs this way now so it has become easier for me. -Zach

That very well could be true, but based of the definition of two end types the argument would still stand. Obviously there are going to be a whole variety of ways and qualities of both types of fret ends. This video is trying to just challenge the thinking that by definition semi-hemis are superior. Thanks for your comment. - Eric