1 Tim 3:15...The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth
@taylorbarrett384Ай бұрын
@@danocinneide1885Yup, and Catholics and Protestants agree about that.
@danocinneide1885Ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Then listen to, and obey the teachings of the Church
@taylorbarrett384Ай бұрын
@@danocinneide1885 Did I say something in the video that makes you think I do not? Or else, why are you telling me this? Do you think the verse somehow proves infallibility?
@danocinneide1885Ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Bible alone is strictly forbidden by the Bible itself, dont you know this? One example, see all of Acts 15, and Acts 16.4.
@taylorbarrett384Ай бұрын
@@danocinneide1885 I'm not sure why you are trying to make that argument. I have not advocated for the Bible alone. I'm a Catholic. But even if I was a Protestant, and wanted to advocate for the Bible alone, neither of the passages you just cited, nor the one in 1 Tim 3:15, "forbid Bible alone" or prove the Infallibility of the Church.
@pigetstuckАй бұрын
is an authoritative magisterial role that clarifies doctrine compatible with sola scriptura?
@taylorbarrett384Ай бұрын
@@pigetstuck sure, as long as it's not infallible
@pigetstuckАй бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 right... although some smaller protestant offshoots probably try that
@thirdparsonageАй бұрын
You make a lot of good points here. I actually think doing an honest reading of Paul it seems his use of the terms "law" "works of the law" and justification or somewhat fluid. In Rom 2 he seems to be talking essentially about Jewish ceremonial laws or "markers" if you will. He also draws a distinction between hearers of the law (the Jews) and doers of the law (I tend to think he's referring to non Jewish Christians) i.e. those who through their conscience recognize and practice virtuous conduct. He also says it's this who "do the law" who will be justified. But as you say he occasionally seems to include things that might be considered "moral law" or the aspects of the law that would just represent good moral practice for any person, and the kinds of things that Jesus and the apostles reaffirm as applying to all Christians. So, to be honest, Paul can be quite frustrating in that way. And it's hard to make a completely consistent argument of exactly where the line is drawn between justification by faith alone, justification by faith plus some level of continued obedience to Jesus. I think he's more or less sayin, "you have been justified and can have confidence in that fact (assuming one is honestly pursing Jesus), you are being justified, and you will be justified. You were justified by grace alone through faith. You are being justified by continuing in the covenant as it were. You will be justified, assuming you are not "broken off" (Rom 11) Anyway, it's probably not even that cut and dry. But that's the most concisely I could boils down his thought.
@taylorbarrett384Ай бұрын
@@thirdparsonage You hit the hail on the head about the way Paul can switch from one to the other. His theology is a rich tapestry that can be frustrating at times to make sense of, especially if you are demanding him to be consistent with his use of terms, and also, if you think all of his arguments are explicit syllogisms. Sometimes he is arguing for an intuition based on experience, other times he is leaving a premise implicit and unstated. When we are trying make sense of the varied biblical teachings, I am convinced the concept of dialectic is a helpful tool for holding them together. If you find me on Facebook I'll be posting updates on a new book I just signed a contract to publish on this topic!
@ddzl62093 ай бұрын
Ever since the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced five hundred years ago many idiots like Calvin, Smith, Zwingli, Henry Viii, Knox, Ellen, Wesley etc started to interpret the Bible on their own wild imagination and even adding their wishful thinking or twisting historical facts and even worse they tried to manipulate the holy Bible itself in order to make their satanic theology fit in the Bible and after five hundred years now around fifty thousand heretic idiots all contradicting each other all the time rendering Christianity itself into chaotic anarchism. Their main target is to destroy the Church that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but nothing happened to it for the last two thousand years and will remain till Jesus comes back because Jesus himself promised to Peter saying no gates of hell will prevail against it
@xUncleA123x3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for being a Catholic who gets us Protestants!
@marteld21083 ай бұрын
It was not a “Reformation.” It was a revolution and a failed one.
@iwansaputra18903 ай бұрын
creed is product of magisterium of the church . if magisterium can be wrong so creed can be wrong too
@frekigeri43173 ай бұрын
Satan
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@frekigeri4317 if you are saying that Satan causes divisions among Christians, then I agree 🙂
@ronfeledichuk5313 ай бұрын
We profess the creed, but we don't agree with the thinking of the people who wrote the creed. Oh my, what rubbish.
@carpediem55263 ай бұрын
As a Protestant- thank you for this video. Some of the Catholic arguments on YT are so poor and not thought out.
@carpediem55263 ай бұрын
Thanks Taylor. Couldn’t you argue that the Catholic Church Augustine is speaking isn’t the same Catholic Church today? Meaning indulgences, Marian dogmas, papal infallibility didn’t exist.
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@carpediem5526 From what I can tell, Augustine was very much committed to unity with the Catholic hierarchical organization centered around apostolic succession and councils. So while there have been developments in doctrines since his time, his commitment to the conciliar/apostolic organization, to humbly accept and agree with it's decisions, would have kept him in the Church in the midst of those developments, loving it's unity more than his own opinions.
@christianf51313 ай бұрын
This is a really unique perspective, thank you.
@jmyerwilson48703 ай бұрын
Finally a Catholic that can disagree with us Protestants AND be completely honest about history without giving whitewashed history! That gets my subscription! 👍🏼
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@jmyerwilson4870 Thanks for the subscription!
@frekigeri43173 ай бұрын
@@jmyerwilson4870 honest? I never found many honest Protestants. I found plenty that would lie about Catholic teachings though.
@BramptonAnglican3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great video. New subscriber here.
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@BramptonAnglican Thanks! 🙂
@BramptonAnglican3 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 keep up the great work definitely looking forward to more videos.
@jfitz65173 ай бұрын
Thank you, that was refreshing to hear.
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@jfitz6517 Your welcome! Thanks for watching
@j.g.49424 ай бұрын
I know this isn't squarely on Luther v Pope, but it's so strange to hear someone outside of the Lutheran tradition be able to present it so well that you sound Lutheran to me. If I were to add anything, the reason (that I understand) we see concupiscence as sin is that we see Christ as the standard and, while He was tempted, we do not believe or teach that He had "a desire of the lower appetite contrary to reason". Thus if Christ is the Standard/Mark and He didn't suffer 'sensual desire contrary to reason' then concupiscence is a missing of the mark, or 'sin'. I'd imagine that one might disagree, and say that Christ did have concupiscence but was, by His Divine strength, constantly victorious over it (as Luther held was true for The Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary); but then concupiscence would be part of the New Creation? I know there's fuzzy bits for me here too, but it's refreshing to hear a clear rejection in plain language (an added bonus that you don't stoop to Luther's polemics).
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
Thanks! Our Lord certainly didn't have concupiscence. But I don't think that is a good reason for thinking concupiscence is itself damnable sin when it is not consented to. Nevertheless, this particular question is very subtle, and the practical reality of sin, even in the justified, due to our perpetual failure to perfectly resist concupiscence, even if only venially allowing our heart and mind to wander, makes the "Simul Justus et Peccator" a sympathetic doctrine, especially from a pastoral standpoint. I do of course hold the Catholic position, which is that the formal cause of our justification is the infused love for God' that inheres within us, and I think the Lutheran concerns about depending on Christ alone, abandoning any claim to merit/works, etc, are compatible with it, even integral to it.
@j.g.49424 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Yeah, this is our disagreement and exactly what I mean. Thank you for being a breath of fresh air (so many modern Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox I've heard and read condemn Lutheran teaching then affirm the pastoral practise that is our application of Lutheran thought "go to your pastor/priest/Confession/Holy Communion/etc. and trust in God's work/Word there"). As to the pastoral standpoint; I've been taught essentially, if theology isn't pastoral it isn't really Christian.
@taylorbarrett3843 ай бұрын
@@j.g.4942 Your welcome brother, thanks for watching and commenting!
@ElvisI974 ай бұрын
Excellent video!
@jesusocasio54494 ай бұрын
Bald people are gross...
@ololadeaigoro92854 ай бұрын
God bless you ❤
@shlamallama64334 ай бұрын
What do you think about the following? Just as a protestant can have faith that the books of scripture are true without accepting the Catholic Church, and it is true faith, those Catholics who have faith in the magisterium have an extra barrier to error when the magisterium binds them to believe something that they would otherwise remain agnostic on and disbelieve. You might say at that point they would disbelieve the magisterium, and that is an option for them, but it is an abandonment of faith just like disbelieving the Bible is an abandonment of faith if one finds an error one can't resolve in scripture, or disbelieving the goodness of God if one is convinced by the problem of evil. In either case, since faith is a (supernatural) habit, and habits are strengthened by actions, the response that is required is to make an act of faith in X teaching that you are doubting. Protestants don't have an infallible magisterium, so when they are about to deny a truth of the faith that would already be taught by the magisterium, they may hold the two in tension in their mind and make the assent of faith by God's grace. Also, I think that the kind of doctrinal unity in Ephesians 4, given that the Holy Spirit through Paul indicates that this matters a lot to God, and the Intellect and will of Christ are united to the intellect and will of God, though separate, so it seems reasonable to assume that doctrinal unity is what Christ is wishing for in John 17, in addition to the unity of brotherly love. Christ's union with the Father isn't just a unity of love but a unity of intellect, and the unity of love and intellect with God is realized in heaven among the saints by the beatific vision. Furthermore it isn't just Christian disunity of will that is a scandal for non-believers, but Christian disunity of thought. You probably hear all the time, as I have, "Christians don't even agree with themselves, so how do they expect me to agree with them?" from atheists. Anyways I think your thoughts in this video are very perceptive. Thanks for your thoughts and God bless! Let me know if I get anything wrong.
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
I agree with everything you said, though I would point out, unanimous doctrinal unity is a reality in no tradition. Catholics have more of it, but are not in agreement with each other about everything; Protestants have less of it, but agree with each other about those things necessary for their communal worship of Christ together in Spirit and truth.
@shlamallama64334 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Yeah you are right, Catholics don't have the unity that Jesus desires for us completely. This is obvious on the brotherly love level, so it can also apply to the doctrinal level. I think that I would say that some Protestants agree with each other about things necessary for their communal worship of Christ together in Spirit and truth. I think that some of them go astray who otherwise would not if they were guarded by the magisterium, but that does not undermine the fact that many Protestants have the Holy Spirit and are in Christ, invisibly connected to His bride, and worship in Spirit and Truth, while getting some things wrong, even crucial things like not baptizing infants.
@ololadeaigoro92854 ай бұрын
Thank you for your take! (P.s. I don’t know if this is appropriate but you’re very handsome ❤)
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
Don't let my wife hear you saying that! 😂
@pete86844 ай бұрын
I humbly admit I am no scholar and may have a deficient understanding of these matters. Is keeping the Sabbath not considered a commandment of Divine law (as far as ommitting the ceremonial customs but retaining a moral law to dedicate ourselves to the Lord), why would it not be considered mortal (with full knowledge) to reject our Saviour on the day he offers himself to us? To reject being in the presence (or partaking of the Eucharist ) of the most precious gift willingly, seems to me that you reject Christ. I would perhaps have the view that one may be less culpable (i.e. not mortal) by being poorly catechised and thus lack the knowldge to the gravity of the situation. In my opinion it would not seem that Canon law is not contradicting Divine law but there is an element of culpability towards it being mortal or venial. Would appreciate your thoughts. God bless.
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
The command to honor the Sabbath - Saturday, not Sunday - was a temporary prefigurement which pointed, not to a new day of the week, but to Christ Himself. Moral law does postulate the necessity of worshipping God, but how we fulfill that is a matter of conscience. Ideally, we worship Him every day, perpetually, by finding our Sabbath rest in the Sabbath Himself, Jesus Christ. Setting aside a day of the week to meet together and worship is good, but its not divine/natural law. Not attending one Sunday would not be a grave sin, but a heart that lacked any desire to attend at all, could not be said to be in grace and have love for Christ.
@pete86844 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 thanks for your reply. You have given me something to ponder on.
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
@@pete8684 Thanks for watching!
@ololadeaigoro92854 ай бұрын
I agree
@Adam-ue2ig4 ай бұрын
I am grateful for any Catholic like yourself to actually think these things through and push back without just going with the flow or piling on.
@Adam-ue2ig4 ай бұрын
As a Protestant I have never found the arguments of Trent Horn to be compelling (and often his arguments are actually quite poor). He does generally seem a nice and charitable guy though. That being said I wonder how much he thinks these things through or if he throws it out in the pop level Catholic apologetics sphere because he knows many lay folks that are not philosophically trained will eat it up.
@He_who_lives_forever3 ай бұрын
As a Catholic I have never found ANY arguments of ANY Protestant to be compelling (and often their arguments are actually quite poor) they do seem charitable and nice tho . That being said I wonder they think these things through or if they throw it out in pop level Protestant apologetics sphere because they know many lay folks that are not philosophically will eat up… Forget the councils for a second and find out what the apostolic father taught..
@ReformingApologetics4 ай бұрын
The shallow state of Catholic Answers apologetics is so bad now that they actually have people thinking they can't believe something unless a pope or council says they can. Trent is a nice guy but he's also a sophist that makes a living deceiving people and crafting maddeningly pathetic arguments that discourage any meaningful dialog. I appreciate you calling him out and genuinely hope he ups his game. Unfortunately, I think it's the trend with CA.
@pigetstuck4 ай бұрын
Yes! The voice of Christians throughout history carries weight.
@Adam-ue2ig4 ай бұрын
The way you describe that Protestants as long as they are repentant they will be saved. That is also a more generous take than I have ever heard from Catholic apologists. I often hear that Protestants just in essence have a mere small possibility of being saved with the Vatican 2 Seperated brethren or invincibly ignorant appeal. I have even heard Catholics say the only way is on judgement day some Protestants might go through a green light that like beams them up which is a special exception not the norm for Protestants. I'm curious have you ever heard this about the green light?
@taylorbarrett3844 ай бұрын
no, never heard of that, and if that was truly Catholic teaching, then every Protestant who knows they have a salvific relationship with Jesus, would have absolute concrete proof that Catholicism is false. Lol. But fortunately, that's not Catholic teaching. Even if some medieval Catholics may have thought that way about non-Catholic Christians, The current Catechism describes Protestants as those who "are justified" and who share in "the life of grace.".
@Adam-ue2ig4 ай бұрын
@taylorbarrett384 I'm not saying it is Catholic teaching, it seemed to be some kind of obscure thought and I don't even have a source for it other than an article I can no longer find and a few Catholics that told me this online years ago.
@Adam-ue2ig4 ай бұрын
Interesting take (and more generous than the Catholic apologist Anti Protestant types).
@worknmanslife4 ай бұрын
As a cradle evangelical turned catholic: agreed and appreciated bro.
@normanreategui93484 ай бұрын
I absolutely loved this, brother. Please, continue posting videos. God bless you!
@davidszaraz46055 ай бұрын
I don't think that you described the problem correctly. Of course faith comes first, that is God's gift. Now the question is in which "system", if I may use this word, you have a guarantee of having a complete and accurate canon? If we look in the protestant "system". There isn't such. A motive is not enough, I agree, its not sufficient. If a Samaritan gives you the Torah, and that is your first encounter with the scriptures, how do you know, there aren't other books, until you actually encounter them? You might live in a system where you will proclaim all these "motivs" about the Torah, but, what if you actually meet a christian who gives you a Bible, start reading it and now you realize that you experience the same "motivs " with these other books. Now lets say you later encouter an Ethiopic Christian who gives you an even bigger Bible and sudddenly you experience the same things with the book of Enoch and Jubilees. So where should we stop? Unless there is a church that claims to be divinely protected from erring and giving you a guarantee that this particular canon is the correct one, then you have no guarantee. Now you might ask, how do you know the church is protected. That is a different question. And this is not my point. The point is, which "system" is claiming to have a protection external to the Bible. In other words, when I ask the Catholic Church, how do I know this particular Bible is the complete one, I have an answer - the canon is handed down infallibly. Now what answer can I get from a protestant church when I ask somebody there? No one can guarantee me this. The problem is "within the church" or "system". As a protestant you cannot rely on anybody being protected from erring.
@taylorbarrett3845 ай бұрын
Actually the Catholic Church has not infallibly said that the 73 book Canon is complete. Nowhere has it said that the books from the larger Orthodox canons are not Canon. Apologist Jimmy Akin has made this point several times over the years. Regardless of what system you ascribe to, there will always be grey areas, mysteries, areas you don't have full understanding. That will be true of us even in eternity.
@davidszaraz46055 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 I dare to disagree. I studied the canon quite extensively. The church claims to have a closed canon. I disagree with Akin. He doesn´t put forth anything to support his opinion. On the contrary I studied even EO scholars who also claim the Catholic Church is the only one that claims for herself a closed canon. Check out: "Did Councils Contradict Themselves on the Book of Esdras? Part 3" The relevant passage starts from 2:05:58
@davidszaraz46055 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Moreover a church cannot simply add books later on. That would undermine its faithfulness. Either you have an apostolic tradition or not. The church cannot claim infallibly that the 73 books is the apostolic tradition and later on claim that lets say 75 books is the apostolic tradition. This means the church erred in one instance. Both cannot be correct.
@taylorbarrett3845 ай бұрын
@@davidszaraz4605 I'm happy to read any text you can cite from the Magisterium where a claim is made about the Canon being closed. Otherwise, I see no evidence to support the notion that it is. The Council of Trent did not say, "only these books are Canonical."
@davidszaraz46055 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 did you watch the video?
@Daniel_Abraham10995 ай бұрын
He’s Alive!
@ololadeaigoro92855 ай бұрын
❤❤❤
@pigetstuck5 ай бұрын
I appreciate all your videos. Thank you. Can I ask you a question about Marian devotion?
@taylorbarrett3845 ай бұрын
Thanks! I am happy to hear whatever question you have, but I can't promise to have any good answers for you. Lol
@pigetstuck5 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 It's fairly easy... I apologize if I already asked you this. Have you done an entire consecration to Mary?
@taylorbarrett3845 ай бұрын
@@pigetstuck If that is a particular devotion, no, I don't think I have.
@pigetstuck5 ай бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 I think it is a particular devotion (maybe with a few different methods/formulations)
@ololadeaigoro9285 Жыл бұрын
Woow every interesting discussion! Thank you sharing!! God bless you ❤❤
@RJ-ku2mh Жыл бұрын
Dude, I have pretty much the exact same story...except I turned all my family protestant then went back to the Catholic church smh. Its cool to hear someone else thats had a similar journey in so many ways.
@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын
a written apostolic record from a purely historical perspective is fairly convincing
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
Im not sure what you mean
@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 one could approach the question from a purely historical lens... "Which early Christian writings are most likely to represent apostolic teaching?" I haven't read any of the earliest protestant expressions of 'sola scriptura' but I imagine that being faithful to Christ's teachings as pass on by those He called and sent out (apostles)... that was probably their aim. And I think that many Catholics also share that aim.
@ReformingApologetics Жыл бұрын
As much as I love and appreciate your honesty, and agree with your conclusions...the Jews (mainly Pharisees), NEVER considered the "Oral Torah" to be infallible. Authoritative, yes. Infallible, no! This is a really important distinction.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
@@ReformingApologetics Yes they did. They made the same argument many Catholics and Orthodox make today. "You depend on the Oral tradition for the written one, so you have to accept both." This equality between the oral and written already implies the infallibility of the written. Also, google "oral torah infallible" and you will see many Jews to this day consider it infallible.
@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын
@@ReformingApologetics Setting aside infallibility and authority... where is the best locus for reliable apostolic teachings?
@ololadeaigoro9285 Жыл бұрын
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
@theosophicalwanderings7696 Жыл бұрын
I think Sola Scriptura really collapses into Sola Apostolica, which the Church at least in theory has always held to, as every tradition claims to be following what the Apostles taught. Sola Scriptura is basically just a historically modified version of Sola Apistolica. It’s just that now, the only record we have of the Apostles teaching is in scripture. Whereas before you had their oral teachings when they were alive.
@Daniel_Abraham1099 Жыл бұрын
I’m guessing the classic Catholic Answers response would be … We would make a distinction between a book being viewed as scripture vs viewed as a historical document. The gospels, epistles, and other early Christian documents are treated as historical documents and give reasonable evidence of a man named Jesus who died and resurrected proving he was God. Likewise we can see evidence of him establishing an infalible authoritative church. Once one’s personal objections have been cured by these motives of credibility, all that is left is the grace of God to move the heart of the individual to supernatural faith that he could not obtain through reason alone. After the supernatural assent of faith, he has assurance in Christ and his church to proclaim which books are considered scripture as opposed to all other books. I’ve heard this being called a spiral argument because it although it seems circular because we begin with the Bible and end with the Bible, it is avoided because we begin with the Bible as mere reliable history and end with the Bible as infallible scripture.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
If we can't begin with the Bible as Scripture, then regardless how probabilistically reliable you might judge it, you still are left with uncertainty about whether Christ actually said the words he is reported to have said. And if God can give grace to move the person from probability to certainty, he can do that directly about the Scriptures themselves just as well as He can do it with regard to the Church.
@johnlong8037 Жыл бұрын
YOU MAY GO TO HELL IN OR WITH YOUR EXPENSIVE TRUCK... PEOPLE ARE STARVING AROUND THE WORLD AND YOU BRAG ABOUT AND ARE FULL OF EVIL PRIDE HAVING AN EXPENSIVE TRUCK...OMG !!! SELL THAT JUNK AND FEED THE POOR AFRICAN CATHOLICS WITH THE PROCEEDS TO PLEASE CHRIST....
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
Although Trent did have a special caveat that it was possible by "special revelation " to know that you will persevere to the end i.e assurance of salvation.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
Assurance is not Catholic, the Council of trent anathematizes reformers on assurance and many topics.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
There are strong responses against the Catholic position on 1st Clement. Paul says whoever they were or seemed to be (i.e Cephas) it makes no difference to me God doesn't show partiality...He makes a point to say he didn't go to Jerusalem at the first (and not Rome rather he goes to Arabia). He rebukes Peter to his face (of course Catholics say he wasn't acting in his official capacity and is a sinner nevertheless it seems to me a glaring double standard as it's not accepted as evidence against the papacy but best believe if Peter had rebuked Paul the Catholics would be using it as evidence for the papacy). Paul says he got his gospel directly from Christ (not from man i.e Peter) and nobody taught him i...along with the fact that none of the others corroborate the papacy and Peter says In Scripture when writing to a local church he appeals to them as a fellow elder (not as someone with universal jurisdiction and supremacy).
@sotem3608 Жыл бұрын
I think some of the scripture provided is perfectly harmonisable. The rebuke for example, can just be indicative of St. Paul saying Peter should act up, precisely because He is supposed to be an example. The fellow isn't un-Catholic. Besides that the pope is pope, he still is a fellow bishop if I'm not mistaken.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
@@sotem3608 you have to make a positive case to PROVE the papacy supremacy and universal jurisdiction...the burden of the proof is on the one making the positive claim...its not enough to claim these things are "harmonizable" or that they don't persay disprove the papacy...if we are looking for positive evidence to be able to affirm the papacy in a courtroom we wouldn't say it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt...Paul by his statements and that the other elders also don't corroborate universal jurisdiction and supremacy is telling indeed.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
@Sotem you say it doesn't disprove because He is ALSO a fellow bishop...but you need POSITIVE statements from Peter himself indicating he thinks he has universal jurisdiction and supremacy...so the fact that he doesn't make those kind of statements AND that he makes statement that he is a fellow elder is indeed indicating he didn't think of himself as having supremacy universal jurisdiction etc i.e the categories vatican 1 claims for the papacy.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
@Sotem it's clear from Paul's statement s he doesn't think Peter has authority over him and that he went to Arabia not Jerusalem indeed indicates Paul knew his authority and revelation directly from God so he didn't need to check with anyone or some central authority to make sure first.
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
@@sotem3608 and Scripture says Jerusalem is mother church not Rome and James is the bishop of Jerusalem
@sotem3608 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, I can relate to a lot of things you said, though I didn't have a profound "mystical" experience.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
*mystical 😁
@sotem3608 Жыл бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 Haha thanks, I'll just try and blame this on English not being my native tongue. 😅
@1984SheepDog Жыл бұрын
I had an experience where as soon as I heard the catholic claim of apostolic succession I was convinced. Nothing else made as much sense of scripture....I took my time to still research the ECF and the catechism, but I was so strongly drawn to it. Over 1 year as a catholic with no regrets.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
What was your previous denomination, if any? Where did you attend church?
@1984SheepDog Жыл бұрын
@Taylor Barrett I grew up charismatic and was apart of the international house of prayer (I did their 4 year ministry school) in Kansas city for a few years, then bounced around a few non denom churches during and after college.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
@@1984SheepDog Oh ok. I spent some time in KC last year and a Catholic friend of mine I studied with at the Dominican school did the school of ministry at IHOP KC back around 2016 if I remember correctly. How have you incorporated the charismatic and pentecostal theology into your understanding of Catholicism?
@1984SheepDog Жыл бұрын
@Taylor Barrett yea I was there from 2008-2012, so I doubt we knew eachother if he was there around 2016.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
@@1984SheepDog so how have you incorporated your experiences of the Spirit by faith apart from being Catholic, receiving Sacraments, etc, in the Pentecostal/charismatic context, into your understanding of Catholic theology?
@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын
I always enjoy your videos. I love that you describe your conversion as "I met Jesus"... I did too! I have also felt a "draw" to the Catholic church... but I'm not sure that it was a draw from God. The Catholic church looks kinda bad from the outside, but once I have experienced some regenerate Catholics and a beautiful service at a Monastery, that made me reconsider. Then, some of the apologetics I found were pretty convincing, especially for someone who grew up in the shallow waters of evangelicalism. But I kept digging and eventually found the work of Ortlund, Cooper, Nemes and others. And I went beyond the Catholic apologetics (bait) and learned more about the actual history and practice, which were a splash of cold water to my trajectory. Our family has been re-reading the New Testament to see how some of the claims I have been learning about (Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon) align with the DNA and emphasis of the earliest Christian writers. So far, that process of getting back to the apostolic deposit, is pretty forcefully pulling me away from the Catholic church... and to be honest, the common evangelical expression too. The Catholic analogy that is often used is the acorn to oak tree... but I am not seeing that at all. I do see God's working in history and even in members of the Catholic church...
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
Why don't you think the idea of development is applicable?
@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 I think it can be applicable but within fairly narrow limits...
@gandalfthegreatestwizard7275 Жыл бұрын
I think the evidence for papal supremacy, infallibility and succession is not that great. There's something to be said for a certain kind of authority for the bishop of Rome, but the extravagant claims the papacy has made at times should be repudiated, and certainly there are no grounds for demanding that other churches assent to them when we eventually reunite with each other. I quite like what John Paul II said in Ut unum sint: "Intolerant polemics and controversies have made incompatible assertions out of what was really the result of two different ways of looking at the same reality. Nowadays we need to find the formula which, by capturing the reality in its entirety, will enable us to move beyond partial readings and eliminate false interpretations." Of course this applies in many areas other than the papacy. That said, I'm not about to up and leave my church for another one, though I don't condemn people who do. Benedict and Francis both recommended that Protestants remain as such rather than being in any haste to "convert", since we need people in every church sympathetic to other churches and working for ecumenism.
@taylorbarrett384 Жыл бұрын
Do you think Catholics could find a way to word the Papacy that would both honor Vatican 1 while simultaneously allow for Protestants and Orthodox to accept the doctrine? What is your current denomination?
@Adam-ue2ig Жыл бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 no...universal jurisdiction and supremacy are untenable.
@gandalfthegreatestwizard7275 Жыл бұрын
@@taylorbarrett384 I'm a Catholic. I think Ratzinger's proposition that Orthodox and others should not be required to hold more than was already agreed in the first millennium of the Church is a good starting point.
@jordand5732 Жыл бұрын
Glad to be subscribed to you. I think the overselling of the typical catholic pop apologetics is what led me out of catholicism. Had sort of a mere christianity upbringing that leaned pentecostal and was initially so moved by catholic arguments from steve ray and others that i converted. Stayed catholic for about 5 years but left within the past year after I realized that their silver bullet answers were not really silver bullets at all. Their triumphalism then seemed to me to be dishonest and irresponsible and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Trying to give all christian denominations a fair shake, but its hard to find catholic apologists that dont trigger my temper these days.
@ReformingApologetics Жыл бұрын
I completely understand. Dealing with the professional pop apologetic arguments has become an exercise in sanctification for me. I spend a lot of time tracing the history of particular arguments they make and it's shocking how relatively novel many of them are. It's a case study in how quickly and easily history can be rewritten.