True, but they're not called apples and oranges. The good news is I'm getting great use out of both (pliers, not fruit 😉🙃)

Thanks for watching!

I always put the little latched pin through the set pin because I worry about exactly that.

LoL - fair. But I will say the SO pair has been in my hand a LOT since that video. The TwinGrip has saved my butt a couple times doing that it does, but it's more of an emergency tool.

Crap - you're right! I let the bar lights fool me! Thanks for pointing that out!

I hope that's true, but I can't imagine...

@ just got home with one from Home Depot in Ontario. $201 cad with tax. 2563-20 3/8 is the same price. My Wife’s going to buffalo Saturday and I’m going to get her to get me the fuel m12 high speed ratchet combo with 2 batteries and impact driver for 199 usd. Each country gets extremely different deals

I don't generally like to speculate on things like metallurgy since I don't have the data. It's an odd thing that Esco seems to bounce between rating per pair and rating per stand, but as I said in my response to your other comment there's no scenario where I'd trust the 10498 stands with anything close to 6 tons. An F-250 truck approaches 4 tons and an F-350 can be over 4 tons, and there's *zero* chance I'd use an Esco pair for putting even just one end in the air for either one. That's doubly true at the upper end of the height range.. That's not a dig against Esco - I'm happy with my set overall, but 3 tons a pair is all I'm asking of any of my jack stands. If I had something requiring 4 tons like the heavy-duty pickups, I'm going to the 22 ton design or something similar.

@@themessygarage All jack stands should be used in pairs for safety, the difference is the ESCO jack stands are individually rated at 3 tons per jack stand, If you read the instructions all jack stands will also say to only have one end of the vehicle on jacks stands at a time. Now if you are only removing one tire you can use a single jack stand and that is where the ESCO shine, they are a true 3 ton jack stand, were as the Harbor Freight knock off copy is rated 3 tons for the pair making them 1.5 tons each.

FWIW - when you look in the product manual on the Esco website (esco.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/10497_10498_10498_Instructions-01.06.2022.pdf) it states 3 Tons for the pair. If you look at their other stands, they all appear to be rated in pairs. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but I'm guessing the correct rating for the Esco and Daytona stands is 3 tons for the pair.

I haven't - I'll try to get back it. When the Daytona stands came out, there was a lot of discussion on the topic of load rating. As it sits, it does appear that HF is claiming a 3 ton capacity for the pair (which is how stands are typically rated) and Esco is claiming 3 tons for an individual stand. Here's my take on that: I would not trust EITHER set for more than 3 tons. I don't know how the rating system works - I don't think I've seen another company offer a "per-stand" rating, and I don't know if that means Esco is claiming 6 tons for the pair (in other words, I'm not sure the ratings are additive like that or if it's the lowest capacity of either individual stand). But however that works, I would NOT trust 12,000 pounds to this design and build (from anyone). That's a huge amount of weight, and if I needed it I'd go to something along the lines of the 22 ton Esco (which seems to be the rating for the pair, not each stand) or its Daytona knockoff. The good news is I have nothing in my garage that approaches 3 tons/6K lb., so I'm well within a zone of safety in terms of the weight rating for both sets. I can't imaging dropping 12K* pounds on the Escos and feeling comfortable with that. Since this video I've used both sets a fair bit, and both have been flawless.

I agree it needs to be firm, but it shouldn't be difficult, which it often is with the old batteries. The new ones feel great!

@ true

I haven't heard that about the Stubby (either Gen), but I have seen a couple mentions on the Torque Test Channel about this on M18 impact drivers. No idea what's going on there (if anything), but I use an M12 Surge impact driver that is my favorite power tool, and has been flawless.

The simple answer is I'm not that smart 🤣. The longer answer is I didn't think about it and the instructions don't recommend it (and that should probably be Step #1).

@@themessygarage i appreciate the video none the less hahah thank u 🫡

Firstly - thanks for the first laugh of the day and teaching me a new saying - I'd never heard "grab the dick off of something" before. Certainly you'd want the bigger pair for a task like that! I appreciate your insight, comment and watching!

The Icon is really kind of a hybrid, and since the new Knipex design is mainly what's out there and what I have in the drawer, I went that direction.

Fair. That would make a good suggestion in the instructions...

i hope i dont have this issue - waiting for mine to arrive in a few days - was torn between this stubby and the mid torque

That sounds like a warranty thing for one of them...

I actually think you need both and even a high torque they each have their own roll to play

@@alcerz984 I've had this thought too. I'm trying to resist that notion.. 😁

I can tell you from experience you WILL run into particular bolts whether it be suspension or brakes with rust or torqued to high specs when you will need the mid and the high torque.

Oh. I missed that myself. I don't really use them that way, but... :/

@themessygarage going on my second day with all 4 jack stands on my car and my low profile jack as back up

I've liked them a lot. :)

The Short Version: I was selling them them because they were not correct for the reason I bought them and inaccurately disclosed. I'm fine with treating my tools like tools. The Long Version: Ultimately, I wound up keeping them, mainly because life exploded shortly after that video. I might sell them at some point. Anyway the issue I had was they were misrepresented and damaged, so they weren't right for the purpose I bought them for: a set to compare a known-good set to other similar sets on their same-brand ratchet. I say in the video that there's nothing wrong with them, but they were obviously well-used and so likely not as tight as the new set I got. I'm still working my way out of the life-chaos, so I haven't done the comparison video yet. I'm definitely not a pro, and I do not consider my tools jewelry or collectable. I take care of them though. If I needed to use a socket as a drill guide, I have crap sets that would take the hit. If I had to use the Snap On, I would, but I definitely wouldn't sell them to someone else without (A) disclosing the condition accurately, and (B) fixing the big burrs on the inside of the socket. (I have a nice vintage BMW where the makes those sockets would make would not be cool with me). Anyway, sorry for the long reply.

Appreciate the insight!

The benefit of a lift, eh? :)

I hang it on my speedo

Link?

Well - the new one showed up today, so I'll unbox it, play around with it and post a vid or two on what I think.

@@themessygarage absolutely please do. I’m on the fence.

Thanks! I really only do this so other people can have some information I didn't have or avoid my mistakes - 🤣

Just in time for the 40% off daytona jacks today 9/28/2024. Already have the yellow super duty 3 ton, but damn that is heavy. If that badlands jack was included in the 40% I would get it instead of this silver 1.5 ton aluminum (58811). Wish they had a 3 ton version of the silver/black aluminum like the Pittsburgh and the lift height (16 and 1/8 inch was maybe 5" longer at 20"). Grease/zerk fittings like the super duty and a different "front" caster(?) would be nice.

@@jkxss I was just wondering if the racing jack was included in the sale. At 40% off, it's a steal! I have the Super Duty too - and it's crazy how much heavier it is than either of the two jacks in this video.

Yep 40% off sale this week was a great deal. Only thing about the jack is the saddle cup is too small and if you put the jack too far under your car, the lifter arms hit the car bottom before the saddle cup does. Yes you could put a puck on the saddle but if u have a clearance issue.

The lowest torque is 20 lb. ft., which is the upper range or torque for most spark plugs. I got the Icon 3/8" 40-200 in. lb torque wrench for plugs.

I suppose it depends on what you're working on - so much of what makes a wrench useful or not is access - thickness, angle of approach, length etc. I work on a variety of family cars from Toyota, Honda, Mazda, vintage BMW's, Mini and Volvo, and each presents a different thought process when it comes to design and ease of serviceability. That's why I have a dang wrench-drawer! 😉

It is not my intention to lead you into expensive decisions... ...but it's not surprising either... ;)

lol - I'm sure something could be arranged in the magnetic side trays... ;)

This was made when they announced it, and a lot of guys like me are/were wondering "Is this worth upgrading?" - this video is for them. (Mine is here in the next week or so, so there will be a vid)

I'm not sure, but they're very beefy - I had always been a little distrustful of single-post stands, but these are great.

Did you mean "why I started comparing them"? If that was what you meant, it's because they are called the same thing, and they are very different pliers. The Icon wasn't out then. I've purchased it, and used it during my recent move since the Knipex pair was at the new house, and the Icon pair did just fine when several square-drive screws were stripped while trying to take down a bunk bed.

Overall I agree with you, especially when it comes to filling up a whole box (discussed in my "Are Tools an Investment?" vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIuxY36pbp2iiaM)

I'm not sure I agree with dodgy, but I'm definitely low-budget. :)

I haven't tried Fujiya yet, but the Ko-ken stuff I have is outstanding. I don't know why Icon chose the 12" size first - I use my 7" Knipex pair far more often.

I'm sure they do - PN? Price?

@@themessygarage 209RFSM price $201.30 you have 2 sets one without low profile ratchet and one with

I have started to try to do that - the transcribe tip is a great one. I really appreciate the feedback!

Fair. I cut up a cast iron tub in our "new" house recently. The Hercules was a beast with a diamond blade, but the size of the Milwaukee helped me get into tighter spots. I'll post that stuff (though it's a bit...raw), but the net is I'm very glad to have both.

I'd put the weight on it and see how it goes. It shouldn't hurt the pad.

Sorry - I probably should have put the question I was responding to - lol. I think they're both excellent sockets. The Z-series are more expensive, but shorter and feel extremely heavy-duty. I don't think the "regular" Ko-ken set is "cheap" as in low-quality, but they have more mass to work with. The Z comes with a nice rail also. :)

You need the nut grip, surface drive, and 12 point. Then semi deep and deep. Then 1/4 and 1/2” drive. Then all that in impact. Don’t forget the swivels. It gets expensive real fast.

@@ToolsMethodsPhilosophies Honestly, I don't have close to all of that, and as just a DIY'er (though a pretty active one) I don't think I need it. I have a lot of sockets because I'm crazy, but I could do just fine with my core set - standard 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" in chrome, 3/8" long (all 6-point) and a regular set of 1/2" impact sockets in standard and long. I've gone affordable on extensions and swivels for the most part, and that kit has been great for me. If I were a working pro, I'd probably feel different.

@@themessygarage I agree as a fellow DIYer and I was just joking. Nut grip koken sockets are awesome and make some work easier. Just buy a common one for $10 to test yourself

Personally, I think a split beam is less likely to encourage you to over-torque. The Icon torque wrenches are testing out to be pretty great - check out the Tools Tested channel.

The video is supposed to be about why I'm not on the hype train and buying one. The point is a lot of people wind up buying something because it's "NEW!" or "IMPROVED!" and not because they need it. The personal experience in the video was my journey down that exact road: everybody made so much about the big gun (2767 High Torque) and how it was the answer for almost everything. So I bought it. Ultimately the Mid Torque is better in every way for what I do. I didn't *need* the extra power of the High Torque, and I'm incredibly glad I don't have to deal with the weight of that tool. So this time around I thought sharing that most of DIY'er-world can live happily without the 2967 High Torque might help some save a few bucks and probably have a better tool (a Mid-torque that does all the jobs and is a smaller, more versatile and lighter package). Sorry the video didn't work for you. :(