@@mojo6886 I am not sure I can recommend Cove. Consumer reviews aren’t great, and USA Today’s review of them is scathing, giving it very poor marks on cleaning performance. Beautiful interior and configuration though, it’s a shame it doesn’t seem to be backed up by performance.

reviewed.usatoday.com/dishwashers/content/cove-dw2450-panel-ready-dishwasher-review

@@vitasoy1437 thank you!

@@romeowhiskey1146 Around a year of having it, it’s a great dishwasher itself and cleans like a dream, but I will not be buying another Miele product after this ordeal. I wish the engineers ran the company. Just about any other luxury brand will do better on customer respect than they did. At least they paid up!

Yes, I use salt and rinse aid. We have very hard water here

@@MichaelIZ you might want to recheck the settings. They door should be shiny and not opaque

@@simonemartini3017 This video was taken almost a year ago and before a wash, my door currently looks shiny/clean.

I’m glad it worked out for you! Thank you for sharing your experience

@Olya971, I'm not familiar with this and have not experienced any unusual (to me) smells. The drying cycle just circulates hot air, it doesn't use anything odd like the Bosch's zeolite. Hope this helps.

Hello! Happy to answer your questions. Yes, I love the AutoDos feature. It's nice to not have to remember to fill it and to take the guesswork out of proper dosage. I haven’t tried putting my own detergent in yet, I’m in the last or second to last of the free 7 pods I got with the machine. It does have a sanitize cycle (Sani Wash is their name for it) and I do use it after preparing raw meats and such. I have found the tines to be well spaced, they fit all my plates pretty well. I find that while they are more widely spaced than the opposing set in the front, they are still closer together than your american dishwasher (like a Whirlpool/KitchenAid) and do not waste space. Their shape can be a little odd for things like certain shapes of bowls and larger casserole dishes, but a little creativity to placement isn't the end of the world and is not a frequent issue. The cleaning quality is generally good enough to where as long as I give it a little thought, tightly packed loads will still be completely clean. I have photos of one of my semi-tight loadings from when I first got it, see the link below: imgur.com/a/EmuieYE When looking at lower-end models, keep in mind many of the things included in higher-end models as far (as rack organization goes) can be ordered seperately on their parts site. I added the extra 2 short cup-racks (as they're called) on the lower rack post-purchase. You can do the same for just about anything on the interior. If I were to do it again though, after my experience with their customer support I would go for a Bosch 500. Very price reasonable and that Bosch series has the auto-open door which is more important to me than the Auto-Dos, if I had to pick.

Hi! Yes, Whirlpool owns Amana, Maytag, KitchenAid, and JennAir. I almost went with a KitchenAid as I had good experiences with my last Whirlpool kitchen. They’re far from perfect but I would take them over a GE (owned by Haier) or Frigidaire (owned by Electrolux). As a novice but handy-enough person, I wouldn’t trust myself to fix a Miele but I would a Whirlpool product (fundamentally simpler). Samsung and LG are on the firm do-not-buy list for dishwashers (avoid all Samsung appliances). LG is excellent at washers/dryers though, that’s more of their groove. I have no knowledge or experience of some brands like Beko (which seems to be favored by USA Today) or Sharp. Sub-Zero/Wolf make a dishwasher called Cove, and the reviews are plain bad. Apparently it cleans worse than the cheapest Amana. Bosch owns Thermador and Gaggenau as well. Both are going to be the most comparable to Miele, but in terms of value (since they’re all Bosch dishwashers at their core) the Thermador is going to be the best, while gaggenau will cost more but give you the most comparable rack designs. I haven’t heard of the seal failures you mention, but I’m in an area with excellent service for all companies. If I was going premium, I would get a Bosch 500 (not the 800 or benchmark because I want the Auto-Open door, it’s extremely simple and effective for overnight runs). If I wanted to save a buck, Whirlpool/KitchenAid have started selling European style models that are flush with cabinetry and have auto-open doors. But depending on where you are, the Bosch 500 won’t really cost that much more. It’s a solid value. Side note: You can also find employees on Reddit that will share access to the employee friends and family discount program to save money (I have verified that they are legit and ordered things from the program myself). If I’m honest, much of my knowledge on “Bosch cleans welll” is from other people’s feedback and consumer reports reviews. I do have concerns about the design of their sprayer system though, as Miele uses a large third wash arm above the silverware and Bosch only uses a sprayer (I am not sure if this changes for the gaggenau models at all, given their massive price difference). Even Whirlpools use a mini-arm instead of a sprayer in models with third racks. But given their solid reputation it’s worth the chance. I’m very satisfied with the my Miele itself, it’s been a fantastic appliance since it was installed. If I’m honest, if you can get a good lightly-used model on FB marketplace that might be a great option! I have seen fantastic deals in my area on very recent models. You can get what you want without giving a disrespectful company a single cent.

@@MichaelIZ Thanks so much for your help!

@@StarlightSelenite Always happy to help! Hope I didn’t go overboard with details there.

@@MichaelIZ Not at all! I appreciate your help. I am still trying to find a replacement for our Maytag. Brand new 4 years ago and nothing but trouble.

@@StarlightSelenite I’m sorry to hear that! You definitely should not have had such trouble and are right to expect better!

@techforever1970 it is above the rear view mirror

That’s a common issue, fortunately I live in a major metropolitan area. I would not recommend Bosch or Miele to people living in rural areas or any town without adequate service coverage

If you are going to accuse me of spreading false information then please elaborate on the specific chemical differences of the Miele detergent vs traditional brands.

Out of spite for me… pronouncing the name correctly? What?

We have some decent consumer laws here, which is why I was able to sue on my own without a lawyer. In my state we have some good laws especially. I could have returned it, but the dishwasher itself was great and I still liked it. My issue was the way they lied and treated me as a consumer, if I returned it for another brand I would have just gotten something that did not fit my needs as well. It didn’t make sense to make myself suffer because of their falsehoods. Plus I installed it myself and didn’t have the time to uninstall it and exchange it. You expect to not have to remove something like a dishwasher until it’s broken.

@@MichaelIZ a good! Good to hear you could sue them yourself and win! Well you are right about the exchange, but now you have something that was not meeting your expectations? If i remember you won 300 dollars? Would it have been possible to sue for them to replace it with a higher model that was as advertised? I don’t know a lot about us law of course. And was the 300 dollar based on depreciation of the appliance compared to the model? Im curious what the court said lol. (Love judge Judy and the people’s court 🥹)

@@StijnNLDutch I sued for $1,300, my complaint was I spent about $1,000 extra because of their advertising and $300 in court fees. I could have sued for over $2,200 (cost of the dishwasher plus extended warranty I bought) but I felt that was not fair since I chose to keep it instead of returning. What was advertised was my model, but the particular feature (AutoStart) was a big mistake. I now assume they just copied the features for other 7000 series models and didn’t check with engineers. But it means the advertised features that it didn’t have, which is illegal! And now since I told them about their mistake, and they acknowledged it but continue to advertise it, it is negligence. Crazy they allow themselves to behave so poorly.

I’m glad you appreciated the review! Good luck in your search! Keep in mind that for Bosch, they own many brands. Bosch is the “cheapest” brand even though it isn’t cheap. They also own Thermador and Gaggenau which offer even nicer dishwashers. Gaggenau is probably more comparable to Miele in terms of what their interior racks look like, and I would probably more heavily consider them in the future.

@@MichaelIZ thank you So Much for that info, I really do appreciate it. It's nice to find people who aren't only knowledgeable, but who actually Care, & take the time to share that with others. =)

@@aymeelynnm4386 I appreciate your kindness!!

I'm about 90% sure that I did file a complaint with the FTC, I never heard anything back

The radio must be turned on when you pull the lever- is yours on when you try? Nothing will happen when the radio is off. Otherwise, your VR box may have died as well- though as far as I’m aware the electronics in this car are fairly robust. Even without a phone paired or the phone system installed, the VR system will work- it is entirely independent. Let me know, I’m happy to try and troubleshoot.

@@MichaelIZ Appreciate the response, I tried again and I think mine is just broken. I also have a Dension gateway (CD changer to AUX) installed from the previous owner and I started getting a "no magazine" message yesterday. No audio playing. Not sure if that's related but will have to check it out when I have more spare time.

@@210works it does sound like a device in your fiber optic loop has decided not to play ball. If any one device fails then the entire loop is broken because the data passes through each one in a chain. I would remove either the Denison device or the VR box from the chain (make sure to recouple the fiber line for a continuous loop) and check for restored operation. Or if you happen to have one of those Mercedes STAR diagnostic computers (or whatever they’re called), those can display the status of the D2B fiber devices and help identify where the issue is. Fortunately the D2B fiber bus is very very simple so you shouldn’t have an issue getting it working again. And a new VR box is less than $50 (just make sure to get the latest manufacture date you can). If you need anymore help you can send me your e-mail using the contact form on my website and I’m always happy to help out more :)

@@MichaelIZ Wow thank you, you're super knowledgeable on this. The voice control never worked, even during the time CD-AUX was working, so I assume it's unrelated and the Dension box has probably disconnected somewhere. I'm going to try and get that working before I play with the voice controls since it's a little more important for me. Appreciate the help once again, I'll report back with any findings, especially if I can get the voice commands to come back.

@@210works sure thing- let me know! Sounds like you’re on the right track.

Are you sure? I have ordered parts from them in the past directly from their website. I just ordered a few non-return valves for my parents older models without issue.

@@MichaelIZ The check / non-return valve is considered a "spare part", just like racks and rack accessories. You can buy spare parts from the web site and sometime from a local dealer. Miele USA won't sell "service parts", such as the heater relay, even when they commonly fail. A servicing dealer will only sell them as part of a $$$ service visit. The parts they will sell aren't entirely consistent. They'll sell you the drain pump, which does require removing the dishwasher and digging into the insides. They will sell you two of the three trim caps covering screws on the door and frame, but not the third type.

I understand where you’re coming from and normally I would agree. However my impression is that the remote start plus the automatic dispensing was a good combination that I found desirable. After I run out of the Miele pods I am going to drill a hole in one and start refilling it with Cascade powder, it works great.

@@MichaelIZ I know the newest Miele machines have an auto detergent in that one buys this large Miele packet or something. Sounds too complicated. Used to buy the little Miele tablets, cut them in half. Then saw a KZbin video demo using basic model dishwasher, "Walmart" brand powder and how well it worked. Made the switch back to powder after that plus one can dose the load according to the need of the particular load. My Miele has the basic detergent door.

@@kennixox262 I saw that video as well, it’s why I switched to powder. The Miele pods are filled with a (good quality) powder. It’s just very convenient to have it select how much to dispense. It is also optional, as the normal detergent door is still there if you choose. While I cannot recommend Miele dishwashers anymore, if you had to get one then the AutoDos feature is a nice inclusion.

@@MichaelIZ Other than Miele, there is Cove or Bosch. Not sure if the other two brands have a fail safe water leakage valve. Currently, I have three Mile units, two in the kitchen and a smaller 18 version in the butler's pantry.

@@kennixox262 I believe they all do. I am familiar with just about every brand in the US market- I did A LOT of research before making my purchase. None could have prepared me for the debacle it led to

Agreed, even the 7166 isn’t exactly “a bells and whistles” laden machine past AutoDos. Even my former Frigidaire technically had more “Features”. I will say that some recent repairs I did on another dishwasher, I think that the thickness and quality of the cabinet panel you attach had a big effect on noise. I plan to try adding a layer of MLV to the panel on mine to see if that brings it down to KitchenAid levels of quiet (they advertise 39 dB on some models). Otherwise they really want you to step up to get extra cycles. Just wish they hadn’t advertised features it doesn’t have.

Hi, can you share more of your experience compared between the Miele and Bosch dishwashers? How does the Bosch Zeolith drying tech compares to Miele auto door opening? You mentioned that Bosch had extra functions over Miele. What are the functions that you used on the Bosch that you miss on your Miele dishwasher? Is there a big difference on the cleaning results of both machines, or are they pretty much comparable except for the wine glasses that you mentioned? I'm currently debating between these two brands, and any additional insights would help immensely. Thank you!

@@hiuchungwong7857 Hello, I haven't used a newer bosch but I have some insight based on what I know of them on a technical level. It is also worth noting, my mother (who picked the 17 year old Mieles they have at my parents) previously had a Bosch in the 2000s and loved it. The Zeolith drying tech converts humidity to heat (somewhow) using lava rocks. My concerns about this are: > I'm doubtful this will last as long as the machine without needing some sort of service. > As someone who likes to run the dishwasher overnight, I found it upsetting that you lost the auto-open door on the Bosch models if you select one with Zeolith. > If the zeolith does indeed get less effective over time, then there is essentially no "backup" that you could rely on and parts cost will be high on that component. Whereas the auto-open drying is very predictable and works well- just requires more time obviously. The only time there is any residual water after an overnight run is in those tupperware lids that have deep crevices around the seal. With Bosch, they have started rolling out newer models with some features that Miele does not have, such as the ability to divide the lower basket into 4 quadrants- each with it's own wash pressure. Plus they have more optional accessories, such as the large-objects sprayer package, extra item clips, etc. All things Miele does not offer. Both brands clean very well. However the Bosch 500 or 800 will have a better cleaning-per-dollar ratio. Miele advertises that it's "exceptional for glassware" for some reason- honestly I don't really understand why, I'd say it's biggest benefit is the extra large sprayer above the silverware tray. This is one area where Bosch does lag behind, as their silverware sprayer is smaller. If this means it's worse at cleaning silverware- I don't know. No one has mentioned a practical deficiency here. The Bosch noise level depends on the series (as increased sound deadening is one of the features they add as you step up) but Miele is not usually too far off in terms of noise (I don't find them super loud).

@@MichaelIZ Thank you for your insight. I really appreciate it.

It really makes my day that my video was valuable to you! Let me know what you end up going with. If money were no object, next time around I’d probably more seriously consider Gaggneau (probably misspelled) and Thermador (both owned by Bosch but much higher end). We have a Gaggneau steam oven in my family that has been faultless for 15+ years

Yes, that's correct. It dispenses detergent automatically from a disk-style cartridge.

Glad to hear!

I agree with you. It is on its own a good unit and a good value, however it does not excuse the business practices surrounding it. I personally feel going with a higher-end 5000 series or the next level of the 7000 series is a better choice depending on either the value or feature's perspective. That being said, these past months with it have been overall excellent. Great performance from it.

As a consultant (Not in the big 4, thankfully)- I wouldn't be surprised!!

My pleasure!

I agree with the use of plastic around the baskets. Looking at the 5000 series, they do t have it so it seems to be purely for aesthetic purposes. So when/if it degrades it shouldn’t be too big a deal or impact functionality. And you are correct, while this is very adjustable compared to nearly any other current dishwasher on the market, it does seem to be less adjustable than the older models. In particular I really liked the way the cup shelves on the middle rack was designed in the older series, the new ones don’t have as many height positions and this is very noticeable.

​@@MichaelIZnow a year later (at 7 years ownership) the Miele G6000 series dishwasher now sounds like the motor is whining and might start to go out. A new circulation motor is pushing $600 and to replace yourself as their techs are about $400 labor. So not sure if I'll do it as I don't want to have to buy a new dishwasher again.

The Technician Service (SEPARATE from their very bad Customer Service dept) from Miele is very, very good as long as you're in an area with the service. I have had no real issues with my Miele dishwasher so far. It should dry somewhat better than a Bosch, however both Miele and Bosch will struggle a bit to dry plastics as they do not retain heat- this is the main reason you hear that Bosch does not dry well. Neither unit has an exposed heating element for drying which makes them less effective at drying plastics but means you can put plastics on any rack. Glass/Cermanics/etc will come out dry in both units. As long as you understand why they dry the way they do, there's no real deficiency here- it's just a tradeoff. This also reduces your electric bill. The exception to this is the Bosch 800 & Benchmark series which have a unique mineral heating system to dry plastics but I am dubious of its long term reliability.

Thanks so much for all the information and getting back quickly! I saw both at a showroom and still deciding. Again thank-you! Christopher @@MichaelIZ

@@christopherchris9006 Happy to help out! I forgot to mention that we also have a bunch of Miele dishwashers in my family from 2007 and have only needed servicing for something in the drains, I don’t recall exactly what. So I find the Miele’s to be very long lasting.

Thanks for all your assistance! Christopher @@MichaelIZ

We have a Bosch 800. Wonderful machine, cleans well, dries maybe a 7/10 but mainly because it uses crystals to soak up moisture, not a heating element. • Dishes come out clean but definitely cannot clean caked egg or rice starch (stuck to dish); I just pre-rinse • Doesn't dry all the way but it doesn't warp our plastics, either • Door does NOT open upon cycle completion, which is awful because we run it overnight and it would be a huge help on drying if it would auto open • Door doesn't stop without springing back shut (violently). Needs to be laid flat with bottom rack totally pulled out for door to stay down But next time, I want to try this Miele if I can get a good deal and if our local service centers can repair them

Yes, I did try that. I went back and forth with Miele customer support and a technician for weeks and they confirmed that the website and all brochures were incorrect in listing AutoStart/remote control as a feature, it simply does not have those capabilities (I have written confirmation from them). As far as my state law goes, they did indeed falsely advertise. Very upsetting at this price to be treated this way.

Fortunately the cleaning ability for all full-size Miele models is the same, the higher models just have more convenience/organization features.

In the months I’ve had it (between 3-4) I’ve only pulled the filter out once to clean it and it was relatively clean. Keep in mind the drain pump does some mashing of food chunks as it pumps water out. I only scrape large things off my dishes into the trash, no rinsing so it is all the same food that would go down the same drain as though I washed it by hand. No issues with the drain or filters! I’m not equipped to measure but Miele and Bosch do a great job filtering the water. I have read that the newer KitchenAids from the past few years have improved filters as well. My older Whirlpool was rated at being “good not great” at filtering, but I never had an issue with food being left on dishes in that case either. So you should be ok!

Hope it was helpful, if you have any questions let me know!

Even the Boschs don't, they use a sprinkler-type on top which I thought was weird since even Whirlpool often uses a mini-arm. But I haven't seen any other company use one as big as Miele up there, I think it helps with good silverware cleaning.

that's what I was thinking you'd think it would be standard... why put 3rd shelf in but no overhead spray arm? @@MichaelIZ

Hope you are still happy with whatever was your choice!