Hello, ur video is very helpful, i have a question: i accidentally shift from 1st to neutral instead of 2nd( 45kmph) and then i shift back to 2nd. and theres clunck sound, how much damage does it cause to shift fork/dogs compared to improper clutchless down shift/ mis shift😢
@markwilliams8655 Жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@TH-hj6lx Жыл бұрын
Hello does the quickshifter damage gearbox?thanks
@mattman34952 жыл бұрын
People don't do this it causes damage.
@GDurango112 жыл бұрын
My motorcycle gear box became stiff af out of nowhere, so I came across this topic as a quick solution and I amazed, I'm definitely gonna try it. Sounds so good, and it makes sense that your clutch is gonna last longer as you don't over use it.
@deznutsmcdonald52862 жыл бұрын
Is it bad for clutch pack?
@johnhowells-vaughan55192 жыл бұрын
I think your book, The Motorcycle Shifting Handbook, which I purchased, has had the single most positive impression on me out of every single thing I've ever read or seen on how to ride a motorcycle. I am just amazed at how clearly you have explained things I've always wanted to know. Thank you so much for your most excellent contribution. Seriously, I am so happy and fortunate to have come across this. I think the word 'serendipity' is grossly understated in explaining this.
@joemarshall58432 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnurm5yLncqimpo
@joemarshall58432 жыл бұрын
late models auto blip throttle for clutchless down shift .. but its not seemless
@joemarshall58432 жыл бұрын
not seemless ,, google zero shift .. shifting down you are better to use clutch on std bike tranny ,,, dirt bikes theres no drive to road really so can jam into gear
@thepunisher19512 жыл бұрын
Sir you are amazing, thanks a lot.
@josephparry2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video, I just put a lesson up on KZbin demonstrating moving up from clutch top clutchless so this is a wonderful complementary video!
@umeshjambagi81584 жыл бұрын
Sir your right Every engine has its own oil pump When we increase speed oil sprayed On gears (this will not lead to any gear damage or jerks) at that time quick shift must be needed it means with in a fraction of second gears will be shifted Another thing is that as your shifting gears with or without clutch gear shifting sound remain same then you are correct with it. According to me this process will be done in emergency occassions.
@christalbot30394 жыл бұрын
PLEASE pick a better street to shoot vids on
@Psychosocial164 жыл бұрын
You look like the character of GTA SAN ANDREAS
@joonya44274 жыл бұрын
Like most explanations of clutchless shifting, this only explains how a gear can safely disengaged without the clutch. What about the incoming gear. You have no idea of the alignment of the incoming gear dog and dog slots. This is where the damage from clutchless shifting is done. Every mechanical engineering opinion I have ever seen says that clutchless shifting puts more load on the dogs of the gear you are shifting into. I'll trust the opinion of a trained engineer over somebody without that training every time.
@goinhot91334 жыл бұрын
Clutch less shifting does damage your gears, and here’s a engine engineer explaining it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmGcmKKOfMlsiNE
@goinhot91334 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmGcmKKOfMlsiNE
@killer26005 жыл бұрын
I only trust the opinion of someone willing to pay to fix my transmission if it breaks from following their advice. Otherwise their opinion has no merit or backing that punishes them for giving bad advice and protects me from following their advice. As for books, anyone can publish a book on anything these days. You don't have to be a respected mind in your field or rich to make and sell a book.
@Mfteam_5 жыл бұрын
My kawasaki zx6r 2009, when i accelerate in 4th gear, sound like gear skipping their teeth. Only in 4th gear acceleration. After change the drum shift and shift fork, it is same result. All gear teeth and gear dog looks like normal. Can you help me solve this problem?
@abhirotkar5 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for explaining this ... really helpful.
@disarray09215 жыл бұрын
You act like when you let off the throttle to upshift or blip while slowing down that your actually fast enough to nail that dog in before there's no load on it!! Those large wheels spinning those tiny gears, is happening at several thousand revolutions a minute !!! (that's your RPM) EVEN IF YOU MANAGE TO SLOW THE GEARS DOWN TO 1 THOUSAND REVOLUTIONS PER minute , that's still spinning at several hundred mph!! Now your telling me your going to tap it into gear while the "dog" is dead center, with no load for that millisecond?? No. There's still load. It won't destroy your gears right away. It will last awhile if done as instructed, however, the end result is still the same. Your causing unnecessary wear and tear on your gears. There's a reason why they install "quickshifters" and "autoblippers" on the newer bikes. You can also purchase a quick shifter (for up shifting) and a auto blipper (for down shifting) to install on your bike as an aftermarket part. They would not make these parts or use them on all the new bikes if you didn't need them. Especially considering these bikes are track focused. Which means if they didn't need them, they would not use them and SAVE MORE WEIGHT. Ps it feels smooth, because there is no interruption from the clutch input, allowing a consistent load on your rear tire.
@stephonfrazier54345 жыл бұрын
It's not required that you get the dog into the slot dead center. The inside of gear dogs and slots are smooth, because from time to time there will be contact. They are smooth so they slide right off of each other and as long as a definitive shift is made (move the shift lever through it's full travel quickly) there will be no issue with wear and tear any more than if you used the clutch. Whether you use the clutch or not the gears are still spinning at speed even when you disengage the clutch. With a disengaged clutch now the load is coming from the rear wheel. They have quickshifters and autoblippers because it saves racers concentration to be applied to go even faster and are more consistent than any skilled rider. Electronic shift technology does the same thing you and I could do on a motorcycle without it. No bike needs it. It started as another edge racers used to go faster, not save their gearboxes from feared wear and tear.
@JimmySlacksack6 жыл бұрын
dude why do you have eyeliner on your top lip?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hah, good one. I couldn't find my lipstick. : )
@mikebrown25526 жыл бұрын
Why does this guy look like someone from avatar
@jeremyparr6 жыл бұрын
Can someone teach this guy basic math?
@laddaevolta5 жыл бұрын
Jeremy Parr two plus two is four. Minus one thats three. Quick maths
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Btw stephon I’m going to buy your book. I want to learn more about proper shifting techniques 👍🏻
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Cool, SnapBack. Let me know how you like it, and if you have any questions regarding the book let me know. Thanks in advance.
@TwoWheelsCraft3 жыл бұрын
I just finished reading. Good read😀
@donadthegonad6 жыл бұрын
Don't use the clutch and then when your transmission starts to shit the bed quickly sell your bike to some fucking loser.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Hey stephon Quick question. Can you hold the clutch in and shift down multiple gears ? Or is that bad for the bike?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. It's okay to hold the clutch in and shift multiple gears. But you have to let the clutch out (engage it) slowly once you downshift to the gear you want. This is especially important if you shift down to 2nd or 1st gear. It's not the most highly recommended or the most efficient downshifting technique but people do it and as long as you engage the clutch gradually you don't hurt the bike and you don't run the risk of crashing.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Hey stephon Last question I promise. You seem to know a lot which is why I keep bothering you lol. My AR exhaust for my grom has a removable baffle. I want to take it out to make it sound better but wanted to ask you first if this is bad for the bike at all. I see mixed reviews on it. I hear that it’s bad because the engine needs back pressure? Others say it won’t make a difference. Wanted your opinion on it thanks
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. I have no problem with the questions. Get as much information from people as you can. This allows you to come to your own conclusions more confidently. As for the exhaust, while I'm no expert I am aware that yes the exhaust plays a part in the performance of and engine but the good thing is that it's not a two-stroke motorcycle where messing with the exhaust would really change performance for better or worse dramatically. I'm assuming if you are going to do any performance riding (really hard riding, track-days, racing) then I would probably just leave the exhaust the way it is but I think since you are just looking to free up the wonderful sound of your bike and the fact that you are simply street riding and you are a beginning rider that it won't be a big deal to take the baffle out. But mind you, this suggestion is off of the top of my head without any further research than what I've read in the past (and it hasn't been much on exhaust). Hope this helps and don't worry about the amount of questions you ask.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
I found something that might fix the problem. It’s a shift shaft support bracket. I believe this will help with finding neutral and the first gear thing. I put two links down below. They are both the same thing but wanted your opinion on which one is better. Thanks a bunch 👍🏻 store.hardracing.com/cart.php?target=product&category_id=&product_id=31462&xid=m55mmxiUkqcAOxb3kaI6BSLz3jdD3urp www.drowsports.com/sato-racing-honda-grom-shift-spindle-support-bracket/
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. I initially want to say the Sato brand but that is because it looks a bit more trick. But you are paying more for it since Sato is a brand name. If you are on a budget I say go for the Hard Racing brand. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there would be a dramatic quality drop off between the two. Do this especially if you're going to have the shop put it on. Hey, give it a try it definitely can't hurt. Being that they are making a part like that shows this may just be the answer to the problem you were having and what the problem was. I've never heard of this before but there are all types of modifications just for specific models of bikes and their querks. Before you get it though make sure that all the bolts and screws are tight around the shift lever area. Make sure the rod nuts are tight, the shift shaft knuckle is tight and where the shift lever attaches to the foot peg is tight. If anything is loose you have to do extra work to engage a gear.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Whatsup man I have a question. When I’m in neutral at a stop and I shift into first to get going. Sometimes I need t release the clutch a little for it to snap into first gear. I might have asked this question already but is this normal?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. It depends. Usually when you are in neutral and shift to first gear what typically happens is the bike snaps right into first gear, hearing the famous audible engagement of the gear dog and slot contacting each other. I'm thinking you don't need to release the clutch a little but by doing so you are rotating the the gears which touches the slot to the dog and that's what you hear. Do you have to let the clutch out every time or sometimes? Mind you, if you are at a stop light and have the clutch pulled in for a long time with the bike in neutral, when you shift to first gear you won't hear it snap into gear though you will be in first gear. If you stop at a light for a very short time with the bike in neutral and shift to first you will more likely hear the usually pop or snap into gear. Even without you letting the clutch out a little I'm quite positive you are still in first gear. You may have been waiting at a light for a long time with the clutch pulled in and that's why you haven't hear the bike snap into first gear. Were you able to get the bike to the shop?
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier yea but the dealership is horrible and they did nothing for me. The bike is still the same. I have to go to a shop in jersey now and check it out. It doesn’t happen all the time just sometimes I have to let the clutch out to hear the pop into first gear. Sometimes I don’t hear the pop go to take off and it just revs
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. Yeah, your probably in first gear it's just that you're waiting at stop lights for different periods of time and also you are doing this at different periods of the the day (oil temp). Personally I think everything is okay and it may be a small oversight or misunderstanding on your part. Hopefully you don't take it the wrong way. I know your are learning to ride and during that period there are a lot of things that can be overlooked even though you may think things are being done correctly. I know I had quite a few misunderstandings and I used to read about bikes a lot before I started riding. Still take the bike to the shop if you can and see what they say. But as I said before the gearbox is pretty well perfected by motorcycle manufacturers and they know how not to fudge that up (they've been making the same basic technology for decades now). I could always be wrong about your situation though. You could have a misaligned input or output shaft or something wrong with the internal shift mechanisms.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier I understand where your coming from. But when I was at the dealer ship another kid had the same exact bike and I checked his gears out and they worked so much better than mine. He sat on my bike and couldn’t even find neutral.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. Yeah, in that case maybe something is up. I just saw your other post about the shaft support modification you were looking at. That sounds good.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Hey man. So I just rode the bike and there is something clearly wrong. I don’t think it’s my technique at all. The gear box on this bike is complete trash. I can’t even shift into first to take off it’s so dangerous god forbid I need to avoid something quick. This bike is brand new I’m so pissed off
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
What's up SnapBack. Wow, sorry to hear that. For a brand new motorcycle that should not be happening at all. Have you checked to see if there is a recall on that model bike? A few models of high-end sport-bikes had gearbox recalls but even then they were still functional, people were still riding those bikes just fine. The gearbox is a pretty set piece of technology on a motorcycle that's been perfected over the many years of it's engineering and production so this type of a problem on a new bike indicates something is up. The gearbox should be the least of your worries on a brand new bike. Try to get it checked out by the mechanic if you can. Have you dropped the bike? Even just a little fall on the shift lever side? My guess then is that there is a shift mechanism problem, either with the shifting arm or the shift star or gear position lever. Are you pulling in the clutch to shift into first? Can you give me a step by step of what you are doing and what immediately takes place? Sorry to hear the bad news I really hope this is just some type of small oversight issue. Hit me back.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier I’m so upset right now this is horrible. Ok so I’m coming to a stop sign and say I’m in 3rd hear. I shift down to two which is fine and then shift to neutral ( if I can find the dam thing) 9 times out of 10 it skips right over into first. Once I’m in first the bike just revs I have to slam down on it to lock it into gear to take off. If I’m at a light and I shift into first I have to hope to God that the bike starts moving. Most of the time it jus revs like it’s in neutral. I’m so mad right now
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. Based on what you're telling me it sounds like you're in neutral when you think you're in first gear. Are you aware that getting into neutral, either from 2nd or 1st gear, is a half pull/press of the shift lever not a full pull/press? It may be a sensor issue so that when the dash is telling you that you aren't in neutral (green light) you still are. You think you are in 1st gear but you're not. That's the only other thing I can think of at the moment. You could also have a bent shift fork or they screwed the assembly of the gearbox up at the factory (rare but it can happen). Let me know if any other details come to mind about this.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier yea I know about the half click. I just really feel like something is wrong. It’s basically impossible to get into neutral from second gear. And then first I click down and it’s still in neutral then I have to keep clicking down to get it to snap into first. Something is definitely wrong. When they adjusted my clutch lever and cable can that have caused this problem?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
The only way it could be your clutch lever is if you have an adjustable clutch lever and you have set the lever really close to the handlebar and when you pull the lever in the clutch is not getting disengaged. But if that were the case you more than likely would have problems shifting from 3rd to 2nd. I can't see it being that. I actually did that once. I have small hands and I adjusted the levers reach so close to the handle bar that even when I pulled the clutch in it wasn't fully disengaged. I realized it though and only made it a couple of blocks. Something is up. At this point I'm a bit stumped but very intrigued by what the actual problem may be.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Hey stephon. Another question. I have the grom. I’m finding that the bike is slipping into neutral and neutral is also very hard to find. Sometimes at a stop sign I shift into neutral and then to first before taking off and the bike just revs high when it’s in first. Any idea what’s going on? Sometimes when I shift to second it slips into neutral too. Idk what’s going on.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. That's a peculiar one there but the only thing I can guess with the bike slipping into neutral when in first is you either did not fully engage it in first gear or you have worn gear dogs or a massively slipping clutch. Are you sure it's in first gear when you shift it? Make sure you shift completely otherwise you get movement but not full engagement. When you are in second and it slips to neutral is it immediately after you have shifted to second? If that's the case make sure your shifts are more positive. Many riders tap the shift lever but don't raise the shift lever through it's full travel and when that happens you feel like you engage second but not fully and when you open the throttle it slips out. The other likely scenario is that you may have a worn gear dog which will slip out of gear under acceleration or a bent shift fork that won't fully engage second gear and will pop out of gear under acceleration. I'm going to rule the mechanical issues out since you are just beginning and suggest that you be more deliberate with your up-shifts when riding making sure you raise the shift lever through it's full travel. Have you adjusted your shift lever so that it's easy for you to up and downshift completely? A lot of small capacity bikes require that you be more deliberate (not necessarily forceful) with your shifts carrying the lever through a longer travel or you'll get a lot of real neutrals and false neutrals. As you move up in power with sport-bikes the shifting actually gets easier and sometime it feels like you hardly did anything. Small capacity bikes tend not to give you that luxury. But just to make sure it isn't a mechanical issue. Are you the first owner of the Grom? How many miles does the bike have on it? Have you made any sort of performance modifications on the bike? I'm assuming it's a new bike but I don't know but like I said once you reply I'll have a better idea of what is most likely the issue. Let me know if this helps.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier thanks so much for that response your so Awesome man. Yes my grom is brand new. I just put in new clutch and brake levers , a new front sprocket (went down one tooth to gain acceleration) and that’s basically it for the mods so far. Can the new front sprocket be the issue? I didn’t think the sprocket would be related to the gear box. I was kind of having this problem before that tho. Also I just went to a shop to adjust my clutch lever after putting my new levers on maybe that’s where the problem lies? I had too much free play so I went to the shop to fix it Maybe they adjusted it too tight? Also I think your correct I’m not putting enough force when I shift into first cuz I’m scared to break it lol I’ll keep riding and see if shifting a little more forceful will work. So if I go to shift Into second and don’t put enough force into it than it can slip into neutral ?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. The modifications you mention wouldn't give you the type of issue you described. Though too tight free-play will cause revs to go up in a particular gear (eventually since you'll burn your clutch) but not cause the gears to pop out. You'd end up with a slipping clutch. If the mechanic set the free-play it should be okay. I think it comes down to shifting technique. You don't have to be more forceful, it's more important to adjust the shift lever so that you can carry the shift-lever through its full range of motion without you having to exert a lot of excessive movement with your foot. Or if you like where the shift lever is make sure you're flexing your foot enough. Shift levers have return springs and once you take pressure off of the lever the lever reverses the force you applied to return the lever to it's original position or if you stop it's movement short (even with your foot still underneath it), it stops applying adequate force to complete a shift. Make sure you apply force fully through the shift-levers full travel to fully engage a gear. Complete the movement. The lever itself already multiplies whatever force you apply to it. Also the bike is new so everything is tight and things may need to "loosen" up a little to slip and slide a little easier (in a good way). Focus on proper shifting procedure though that is the real reason for the issue at hand. What type of foot-ware do you ride in? Does it constrict your ankle movement? Can you flex your ankle up and down freely? Have you set your shift-lever to your liking? Hope this helps.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier I wear good strong sneakers I have plenty of ankle room. I am going to try what you suggested that might be the problem. I will ride tomorrow and let you know. I do not know how to adjust the shift lever. That might be a kool quick video for you to make lol
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. Yeah, try that when you get the chance. I think it will really help. It will be even better when you can set the lever to where you like it. Unfortunately I don't have my former motorcycle. I do have an old raggedy duster outside but I don't want to scare you or anyone else with that thing. Thanks for suggesting that I should do it though.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Great video man. I’m a new rider and I have the Grom. I’m working on rev match downshifting and I’m preeety good going down in every gear except when I shift down to one. It seems to be jerking me more than any other gear and reving high. Interested in your thoughts 💭
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack, thanks for your comment and question. In regards to your question you said you ride a Grom. It's a single cylinder, small displacement bike so first gear's reduction ratio is going to be very high. This is necessary to get your bike moving from a stop without stalling. Lots of torque but limited top speed. My assumption is that 1st gear on your Grom probably gets you to about 25 mph or less before the engine hits redline. That's quite a low road speed by the time you hit redline. If you have ever opened your bike up in 1st gear you'll realize how fast your bike hits top revs (and how low your road speed is at that point). These facts about 1st gear for your particular bike affects what you feel when you close the throttle (massive engine braking) and when and how you should downshift your particular motorcycle. The jerking you feel is more than likely due to the fact that you are shifting into 1st gear when your road speed is at or past the engines redline, which can dramatically slow the rear wheel compared to the previous gear. This is very easy to do on a small displacement bike. The jerkiness could also be caused by you applying too much throttle on your downshift making the bike lurch forward a bit and then slow down. Or it could be you don't apply enough throttle causing you to rapidly slow when you downshift. In most riding situations you won't need to downshift to 1st gear and if you want to you will have to find out what your bikes top road speed is for 1st gear and then shift into 1st gear well below that speed. If your bike's top speed in 1st gear is 25 mph you don't want to downshift to 1st gear at 25 mph not even at 20 mph. Wait until you hit 10 or 15 mph tops. That way your revs aren't going sky high and you'll encounter more moderate engine braking (relatively speaking for 1st gear) from your downshifts, which is helpful if you tend not to apply enough throttle when rev' matching. I hope this helps SnapBack and if you have any more questions about this or anything else feel free to ask. Thanks again for your comment. Enjoy the riding season.
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier bro thanks so much for that reply your totally right. I live in brooklyn so it’s a lot of stop and go which is why I shift down to first gear a lot. I’m a new rider so I’m getting used to using the gears. Is it necessary to always shift down to first gear at every light or stop sign ?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. For the Grom it's more than likely necessary to be in first gear. It would be hard to pull away from a stop quickly and strongly if you could even do it at all. Also when starting in second gear the bike is even easier to stall. If you're riding a bigger displacement bike it's easier to pull away in 2nd gear. Four cylinder 600's and 1000's are quite easy. The 2012 ZX6R I used to own pulled away just fine in 2nd gear. Of course it all depends a bit on how the bike is geared also. But the main thing is safety, when you are stopped you want to be in 1st gear because that is going to get you off the line in a jiffy if you ever need it. You'll be able to leave cars in your dust if need be. Thanks for your reply. I hope you are enjoying learning to ride; it's a blast. Are you riding by yourself or do you ride with other riders?
@Botzz286 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier I’m learning everything by myself unfortunately lol I also wanted to ask one more question. Sometimes I forget what gear I’m in when I stop and notice I’m at second gear at a stop light. Is it bad for the bike to shift back down to one at a complete stop ?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey SnapBack. It's perfectly fine to shift to first gear when the motorcycle is stopped. The problem that people run into when they do this is that sometimes the gear won't engage and you'll still be in second gear. To fix this problem roll the bike forward or back slightly as you press down on the shift lever, that way the gear will engage. You may not have to always do this but if you feel the gear not engaging do what I recommend and it will engage in first gear. Learning by yourself can be good, you won't feel the need to show off for friends which can easily happen when guys are riding together. If you questions along your riding journey feel free to ask me. I'd be more than happy to answer. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.
@steve234646 жыл бұрын
I don't believe shifting without the clutch damages anything in the gearbox if done properly, however new or ham fisted riders should stick with the clutch. If you miss that window of unloading the gearbox with the throttle even by a little bit it'll wear out not your gear dogs or gears but your shift forks. Most riders in daily traffic riding won't hit that window perfectly every shift hence the reason the manufacturers recommend using the clutch to shift.
@marcoferrari72066 жыл бұрын
ABOUT THE BOOK by Stephon Frazier This book is extraordinary: its level of clarity and in-depth analysis have few equals in the field of motorcycle books, mechanics and the refinement of riding skills. The mere fact that a book like this exists is very beautiful and positive. I would really like to thank the author for the valuable work done. If you want to deepen your knowledge on this particular subject, this book is a fundamental starting point. I would not seem too emphatic, but I'm really excited about this book. It is understood that the author, as a true enthusiast, has asked himself many questions and with a long research has found the answers. Highly recommended. I think this one is good example of a motorcycling book at its best.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Thanks a bunch Marco Ferrari. Glad you liked the book.
@BentSp00n_6 жыл бұрын
2:34 When downshifting you have a (lower) gear that's going to be at higher revs than the (higher) gear you are currently in, and you are saying to "maintain" your current revs to match the engine speed to the road speed. But, you are in essence maintaining the speed of the engine to the road by "blipping" the throttle in order to keep up with your road speed, no? When you said the revs "raise on their own" by slipping the clutch, this is true, but the matching of the revs is done when you slip the clutch through the clutch and drive itself as it connects with the engine and THEN matches the road speed, hence why they gradually raise as you slip it and it becomes jerky, because the engine speed is lagging behind the road speed. By matching revs it would skip the process of waiting for the (lagging) engine speed to match the (faster) road speed through slipping the clutch, therefore minimizing the time it would take for the engine to match the road speed when the clutch is released, as previously stated. I really don't think I'm missing anything here, and I don't want misinformation spreading among the motorcycle community... I just love it too much.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hi Josh Davis. There are three ways to downshift on a motorcycle. You can clutchless downshift, classic rev-match (using the clutch and throttle), or slip the clutch. When I refer to slipping the clutch, I'm not talking about slipping the clutch whereby a rider disengages the clutch and then gradually engages it to match engine speed to road speed. That's definitely slipping the clutch to downshift--as you correctly explained--but that's not what I was referring to. When I referred to slipping the clutch in this video I'm using it to describe a partial disengagement of the clutch in combination with a quick blip of the throttle. This allows you to lose minimum revs requiring a minimum blip to maintain revs (get those revs back). When using the clutch a rider can either slip the clutch (partially disengage it) or fully disengage it. Most riders fully disengage the clutch but that is not necessary and actually waste time and is inefficient if the rider has a long disengagement phase (most riders do). I mention the two ways a clutch can be used starting at 1:49-2:00. You want to save time and energy when using the clutch (being as efficient as possible) and slipping it is the way to do it. You can disengage it too but you will need to be fast to catch the brief rev increase (maintenance) you are providing with the throttle. I understand the cause of confusion and hope this clears things up. If you have any more questions or comments, you know where I'll be. Thank you for your comment Josh.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Josh, to answer your first question regarding blipping the throttle to keep up with your road speed. Yes, you blip to keep your present revs, and most importantly so that the next lower gear can raise revs without significant engine braking effect. You will still have engine braking but it will be smooth and not rear wheel stopping engine braking. The dangers of downshifting comes from losing the revs you have. You essentially double or quadruple the engine braking that you will encounter when you lose revs and don't blip the throttle when you change to a lower gear.
@Houstonruss6 жыл бұрын
Just like an 18 wheeler haha just 15 or so less gears :)
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
LOL.
@MarcusYangNilsson6 жыл бұрын
Why is this not taught at mc-school?
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Great question Marcus Yang-Nilsson. I always wondered the same myself.
@laddaevolta5 жыл бұрын
Marcus Yang-Nilsson it is not an immediate skill you need to ride a bike. School mostly focus on road safety.
@disarray09215 жыл бұрын
Because it's WRONG. THIS GUY DIDN'T EVEN GO TO SCHOOL!!!!HE EVEN ADMITTED HE NEVER WENT TO SCHOOL.
@MarcusYangNilsson6 жыл бұрын
So good explanation, the best I have seen on YT!
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot Marcus. I'm glad you understood it and rate it highly.
@ChubbyCheeks016 жыл бұрын
Ok, I'm definitely buying your book now.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Thanks Corno Ontana. If you have any questions feel free to hit me up in the comments section/message or e-mail at [email protected]. Just put The Motorcycle Shifting Handbook as the subject if you e-mail me.
@thesh1ttygamer9606 жыл бұрын
I had my volume all the way up, could barely hear a thing...
@daverr81636 жыл бұрын
Great video. I’ve done mostly clutchless upshifts but will try to do more clutchless downshifts . I’ve notice that the 1-2 shift is the harshest on both of my bikes , I think it’s mostly do to the bigger difference in gear ratio compared to like a 5-6 shift.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Hey Daverr. That's a good observation regarding the difficulty of 1st to 2nd shifts vs 5th to 6th gear shifts. The ratio difference plays a part, as many people say, but I'm going to give you information to help work towards smooth shifting from 1st to 2nd gear. We need to understand what gears are used for to understand why it is more difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd. 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd gear, for street bikes, are primarily used to maximize force (torque). This means that throttle response will be touchy when you open and close it (engine braking). 4th, 5th and 6th gear are used to maximize speed as you have the bike moving from the three gears prior and so the throttle response is milder when you open and close the throttle. Why is this? It's because the gears (input) dictate the amount of power strokes the engine makes. A lower gear will have the engine make more power strokes than a higher gear. This is also why there is more engine braking in the lower gear than a higher gear when the throttle is closed. While the ratio drops are bigger in the lower gears than in the higher gears we have to learn how to use the throttle in relation to these ratio drops. Everyone has no problem using the throttle when it is mild in the higher gears but in the lower gears your best bet is to use the least amount of throttle necessary to pull the shift off and more than likely we use too much throttle for our clutchless shifts. Acceleration and deceleration in the lower gears is immediate and intense so our best bet is to be more subtle with our throttle control when shifting gears. Our throttle inputs have to be much more nuanced in the lower gears than in the higher gears. The next time you clutchless up-shift try being as subtle as possible with your partial throttle release, and when you take up the throttle again do so in the same small amount you released it. This should really smooth things out for you. Also make sure you are selecting gears quickly and definitely with the shift lever. If you are street riding and you're not at high revs this will be quite subtle. If you are at high revs then the throttle release will be a little bit bigger to unload the gearbox. I'll leave it at that to make this "short" but if you have any questions do feel free to ask. Thanks for your comment Daverr.
@daverr81636 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the reply and info! I’ll be sure to check out your book !.
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot Daverr. Glad to be of assistance. Enjoy the book.
@mozzmann6 жыл бұрын
For Pete's sake it is NOT Rev Maintenance or Matching , you are syncronisation the gearbox input and output to suit the ground speed your doing and as such you shift up at higher RPM and downshift at a lower RPM thus greatly reducing the potential for the rear of the bike to give you issues which is the reason for downshifting at lower RPM and groundspeed.)
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
When you are shifting the way you should you don't have to synchronize anything. That's the whole point of my video. Whether you shift with or without the clutch maintain (control) revs and all will be well.
@mozzmann6 жыл бұрын
But you are syncronising various ratio's it is the terminology you yanks use I'm referring to. I have a Ducati early nineties and shift at various times both upshift and down shift without the clutch , now this is likely assisted by way that I have worked on and been round Bikes of all types most of my life
@stephonfrazier54346 жыл бұрын
Ok. I understand. Yes, our terminology is different.
@trykozmaksym7 жыл бұрын
So it's easy to unload the gearbox and shift the gear. What happens next is more interesting - if it's some heavy V-twin, the difference in gear ratios is great and RPMs drop/raise not quickly enough - the whole thing appears to be very jerky... My understanding is that this technique is just for sportbikes with close ratios and light crank and flywheel and everything.
@stephonfrazier54347 жыл бұрын
Hello MaxTryk. Yes, Sport-bikes ( any modern bike) definitely make it easy and are more forgiving of mistakes but that's not to say that heavy V-twins can't be shifted without the clutch smoothly. It will simply require more skill (mistakes aren't as easily forgiven) and learning the skills involved is part of the fun of riding and why I wrote my book. Learn the foundations of good shifting and it really doesn't matter the bike you ride just as long as it has a constant mesh sequential gearbox. I'll harp on this till the sky falls: it's up to the rider to develop sound technique for the bike he's riding. Don't worry about how heavy the flywheel or crank is. Learn how to shift gears properly. Stop worrying about the bike, worry about yourself. A close ratio gearbox is used to keep a bikes revs from dropping to far out of a performance bike's narrow power band. Large ratio drops still wouldn't be a problem because smooth clutch and clutch-less shifting still requires good throttle technique (throttle control) which is partial throttle inputs. Many riders lack this fundamental throttle control whether shifting with the clutch or not or if they ride a sport-bike or not. The throttle causes all of the movement in the first place and it surely can slow/stop it also. Bikes with big ratio differences have it for a reason (it still keeps the bike within it's broad power-band) and once again your throttle input plays a bigger part than than the rev difference between one gear and the next. Engineers designed the gearbox ratio's to meet/compliment the particular engine's power characteristics so that it can stay where the bike makes the most power. Most riders increase their chance of creating huge dip or spikes in power when they use the clutch to shift particularly when they increase their riding pace. If you have a heavy flywheel or crank all that heavy crank and flywheel means is that the momentum of the engine's power stroke keeps the crank going more smoothly therefore you can reason you may need a bigger throttle input to cause the reduction in torque transfer to pull off a clutch-less shift but this in no mean makes it impossible to shift smoothly. This whole conundrum of what can and can't be done can be said for a variety of things regarding a motorcycle and its setup. A sport-bike's steep steering geometry makes it super easy to steer versus a cruiser's relaxed steering geometry which makes it harder to steer at the same speed. Just because one is more difficult to pull off doesn't mean it can't be done; both can steer it's just that one requires more effort. If one isn't aware of this difference you get people saying all sorts of things and some even saying it doesn't steer right and some thinking it can't be steered at all. A rider riding the cruiser will definitely have to change the amount of force they input into the bars but having to make that change shouldn't make him/her think that steering the bike can't be done. Thanks for your comment MaxTryk.
@trykozmaksym7 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier , thank you for reply. I'm afraid even the biggest throttle input - when you completely close it - will not slow down heavy engines quickly enough before the next gear is engaged.
@neverquit71907 жыл бұрын
That was an incredibly fascinating demonstration! I have been riding full time for 2 years and did not know the mechanics going on in the transmission. Understanding what is happening helps a lot in every way. i suspect that, as you said, when riding hard you are going to wear things out, be it your clutch or your gears or whatever....things wear out. Now that I understand better what is going on, I willl make my own intelligent decision on when to use my clutch or not, and if one or the other wears out, wihch eventually all things do....big deal, I fix it. Everyone on the internet is a critic. You made a very helpful video. Thank you for the great video!
@stephonfrazier54347 жыл бұрын
Hi Never Quit. Thanks a lot for your comment and compliment. What you say is very true. I have a feeling that most people are more interested in looking at their motorcycles than riding them. This is not meant as an insult but as a truth for some. I don't blame them, for one, motorcycles are extremely beautiful machines but I have a feeling this makes a lot of people want to keep their motorcycles pristine inside and out; the definition of pristine: "in it's original condition; unspoiled". If you actually want to ride that's just not going to happen. It's like a basketball player who doesn't want to mess up his new basketball sneakers so he walks up and down the court (instead of running) to slow the rate of getting wrinkles in his new sneakers. The point of a performance sneaker is to perform. The point of parts on a motorcycle are to perform certain task (daily, weekly, monthly) and as a result of performing those task they incrementally wears in the process over time. The point of the gearbox is to transmit the engine's torque to the rear wheel. If a rider shifts gears incorrectly they excessively accelerate the natural incremental wear that naturally takes place over an extended period of time. But even then a gearbox can handle far more than people think. All it takes though is one fudge up (that no one knows the real reason for) to scare people to do or not to do a particular thing depending on who has the biggest mouth. To cut to the chase what so many detractors of clutch-less shifting or any other riding technique miss is that technique execution is the primary reason why something works or doesn't, not the actual technique used. So many detractors lose focus of learning proper technique execution and gloss over this as being the sole culprit for a lot of the damage or risk involved in any controversial riding technique or skill. I can write all day about some of these things that get a bad rap that shouldn't. Riders can do a ton of amazing things on a motorcycle if they learn proper technique and yes it takes time and yes they end up finding out they're not as good as they think but they expand their knowledge of what they and their machine are capable of. If learned incrementally, with a lot of thinking after a ride, they learn they can do a number of things without getting hurt or having their machine blow up as many arm-chair and paranoid riders claim. For those looking to shift without excessively wearing out their gearbox, here are my two basic (but key) tips: 1). Shift gears quickly: use the shift-lever quickly and deliberately, don't use it slowly or halfheartedly, 2). Use the throttle and clutch quickly and in the smallest amount necessary to complete a shift. Shifts take place in milliseconds and humans are a bit too slow to shift efficiently with a constant mesh gearbox, both with the throttle and the clutch. This can be overcome with practice and the the key to developing literally blink of an eye speed is to use the throttle and/or clutch in the smallest amounts necessary to achiever smooth shifts. This way you aren't loading the gearbox with excessive breaks or spikes in power which can result in a sudden load on your gearbox (even then you aren't "destroying" things as many will try to have you believe). The biggest threat is you mess up tire traction causing the rear wheel to either spin up from excessive power spikes (not good in the wet/low traction pavement or on old tires) or to rapidly and excessively slow down ("locked" rear wheel) causing a rear wheel slide. Thanks a lot for the comment Never Quit.
@g.bergervoet45057 жыл бұрын
This will actually damage your gearbox. The reason it feels smoother is that the power curve is more linear compared to shifting with the clutch. Use the clutch, or be prepared to pay those repair bills lol.
@stephonfrazier54347 жыл бұрын
Hi Von Bergerfurth. Obviously I disagree but there is a way to efficiently use the clutch to shift gears so do what you will, it's up to the rider to choose. Many riders don't use the clutch efficiently and that can cause problems (traction, engine and clutch) in itself. And as far as safety and traction goes the more linear the power curve the better, instead of leaving big holes and spikes which is common for riders who use the clutch inefficiently. Efficient clutch and clutchless shifting is what I'm teaching and both do no harm. While I have my preference I can go either way.
@g.bergervoet45057 жыл бұрын
Stephon Frazier it will undeniably cause harm to the dog-teeth and recesses. You may disagree, but you are still wrong :) thanks for your reply.
@g.bergervoet45052 жыл бұрын
@Zikri sup
@g.bergervoet45052 жыл бұрын
@Zikri Poor gearbox though
@colinmarcano14307 жыл бұрын
Great video great visuals thanks for taking the time to explain in detail!!
@stephonfrazier54347 жыл бұрын
Thanks Colin Marcano.
@sleepysmurf7 жыл бұрын
Your output shaft is connected to your... backbone! Your backbone connected to your... hey this sounds familiar. ;)
@noellawr7 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this informative video. I'm going to buy your book.
@stephonfrazier54347 жыл бұрын
Hello Noellawr. Thanks so much for your purchase. If you ever have any questions on what I discuss in the book feel free to contact me here and I'll be more than happy to help you. You'll find the book goes into much further detail regarding proper shifting technique, revealing the proper control inputs required to perform consistent clean shifts. I hope you enjoy the book and I hope it provides you with tons of insight and knowledge regarding the gear shifting process on a motorcycle. Thank you for your comment Noellawr. Enjoy the book.