I can't wait.

Also palisade works both ways.

I want to see the Squigboss before I make up my mind.

Right. My bad. Going to take a bit to unlearn some things.

Had to check comments to see if I wasn't crazy. VEW not working on Cavalry and Monsters will hopefully mean their power budget isn't dis-proportionally high compared to our lackluster infantry. I wonder if the Marshcrawla is getting the Monster keyword, with 5 control and a rampage or if it's getting something else like Cavalry and some kind of charge buff or mortals, maybe even War Machine, I think SCE/S2D chariots are considered that?

Don't forget a single unit of 20 gutrippaz deals 15 mortal dmg with the mortals on 5, and we have yet to seen big hitting unit like the troggoth and skumdrekk. Coupled with strike last, damage wise KB looks good

It’s pre faction pack and I should wait until I see it all, but calling gutrippaz a hammer is insulting. Have you seen brutes or chaos knights? Those are hammers

My playstyle is counter-strike castle. So KBz for sure. However, I also love IJz. So, I will certainly be mixing it up. I will likely take KBz to my GT in August.

@@MossDogAoS What would a KB counter strike castle list look like? Was it your KB playstyle in 3rd? How do you think 4th changes it? Sorry, I'm a noob.

@@brib9716 I played Big Wagh! In 3rd mostly. No idea what lists will look Luke in 4th. Stay tuned!

@@MossDogAoS I mean what is a counter strike castle

@@brib9716 In BW it was Ardboyz at the front, pigs on the flanks, and a creamy centre of casters, heroes, monsters, ranged dmg, etc. You march up the map and do your KBz' morky tricks and IJz' gorky fist. You play reactively, with a toolbelt full of options to counter whatever you come accross. My favourite type of army in any game.

Not anything... everything :D

and you only heal your abhorrants D3 in YOUR hero phase, thats not good for undead heroes that must fight... the only hero that could handle the noble deed thing is ushoran in my opinion

In aos your characters are still not atached to squads. And putting them in combat is a good way to lose something expensive really fast.

IJ are not khorne. IJ really lack the depth o units that the khorne army has. So not even that upside will ork out.

This is misconstruing Vince’s comments, which was the new mighty destroyer is strong but he doesn’t like it because it is a Johnny ability in a Timmy army. His words regarding mighty destroyers “it is a very skill testing ability, it is actually an incredibly powerful potent ability. I don’t want it, I just want to have my happy little orcs run around and punch people.”

Agreed, this is much better. But I disagree you're taking a warchanter to give you access to the prayer lore. You're actually forced to take one because of the prayer lore now. His ability is just nothing.

⁠@@markpandelidis2079I wasn’t clear, what I meant was, you ant taking him for his ability to possibly give you an extra d3 points, you’re taking him for his lore.

@@jesperbecker6412 for sure!

I dunno Brutes get in 19" - 23" off the line. My main concern is what they cost now.

@@rotm4447 true dat on the points cost, but how they moving 19-23inch? move 3" MD 4' M then 6 at a run but can't charge or go second move 3" MD then 3" MD then 4inch move then need to be within 12 to charge, no mans land is 24inch end o end and that leaves us 2 inches short to long bomb

@@liamcarter5389 Md on their turn gives you 5.9" to get into combat, or md and countercharge.

Fair hadn't considered the 3 inch engagement. Im just thinking about KO flying around and kiting the infantry same with slythineth and skaven. So command phase 5.9" threat range. 9inch charge is gettable so 12 inch threat range (md is command phase so they get to move away from you)

But your opponent knows that and will always stay out of 6". That'll almost never work.

Thanks! I'm warming up to the rules.

That's all great and all but the thing is ironjaw infantry is extreemly fucking slow so it could really really use an ability that helps them get up the board. Ironjaws already tend to play heavily into the cavalery side of things. This rule changes makes that even more likely. Moveing into combat is fun and all but kinda useless if everything and their mother is faster then you and can just stay outside of the range to begin whit.

I think he just doesn’t want to get it. Mighty Destroyers was a meme ability. For it to work you had to be far enough outside 12 that you’d make a regular move, or close enough that a hero phase charge wasn’t truly relevant. This was basically only good on the fast units and was therefore a terrible army rule for the balance of a faction with such a small roster. It was abusable if you dedicated 1370 points to 12 pigs, 2 warchanters and a cabbage, but it invited an alpha strike that wasn’t all that good of a strategy in the first place and that wasn’t winning IJ games against good opponents. The triple move was never going to happen. We knew from the start of the edition that NO warscrolls were going to allow doubling up on commands. This new edition brings IJ everything it wants. No battle shocks. Elite profiles. Damage output galore. High saves. And on top of that, it gives us a better Murderlust. For free. 10 times per game. I can push a unit of Brutes 19 inches towards an enemy unit by using MD (3), At the Double (4+6), MD again (3) and then pile in (3) achieving the desired effect to tie down an enemy in their territory AND helping score Seize the Centre.

@@xavierwt I think this will version of the rule will still puch ironjaws towards rellying heavily on the monsters and the cavalery. Since unlike khorne ironjaws do not really have trow away units. The new mightey destroyers is great whit the big pigs for instance. You can just run up the side until your whitin 6 inches of a part of thier screen. Then mighty destroyer into combat range but only just. So that thier unit has no way in hell they can kill your giant pig. Of course they could retreat and get a other unit in to kill the pig. But something like that really causes a trafic jam. And pigs beeing faster make it both easyer to get in thier face and more threathening that they might get around thier screens and get into something soft. And not engeging the pig will get them charged by a max momentum one the next turn. And those things hurt. On the infantry it's alreight i guess but the infantry is just not that great. Because they suffer from a lack of density just based on the warscrolls. They are tough and mean sure but the footprint is just to much in most cases. Going up to 3+ is a big help and the new way casaulty removal works helps to i guess. But it is not what makes ironjaws that much better then other eliteish armies.

That 10 brutes fully buffed in the waagh cause on average 94 damage on a 4+ save.... WOW!