Looks like the exact same thing as the viper xc collapse. The vipe Xc specifically says not to open trimmers past the green neutral line and use speedbar. The carve 2 manual doesnt explicitly say that. The carve says to exercise extreme caution when fully trimmed out on speedbar. Lesson is quit dumping trims all the way and using speedbar. Been too many other people take collapses in the same configuration. The extra speed isnt worth it.
@JustOutHereTinkering23 күн бұрын
The Viper XC doesn't say "don't use speedbar past green line" it says maximum speed is achieved at green line and full speedbar (which is odd). However full accelerated SHOULD be an acceptable configuration and on most wings is just fine. Guess it's just not on these 2 particular wings which people now kinda know because my dumb behind found it out for you! Hahaha.
@Random-es7yo25 күн бұрын
On his normal (non power) para-gliders Gin trims the tips fast. Gives them a nice feel in the air and nice handling. You get the odd tip collapse though. It can be disconcerting if you are of a nervous disposition.
@PPGKyle25 күн бұрын
Simple solution, get a Driftair where its designed to live on bar ;) I kid, I kid.
@JustOutHereTinkering25 күн бұрын
@@PPGKyle hahaha
@JesseWyrick-w9i25 күн бұрын
It looks like you pulled your tip steering right before the collapse??
@JustOutHereTinkering25 күн бұрын
@@JesseWyrick-w9i I went to go grab the tip steer and fix a little tiny oscillation I felt starting but I never really got to fix it and collapse was on the opposite side. Not to mention you are allowed to use tip steering. So I think that's unrelated
@MitchG26 күн бұрын
Your thought process on when you can use the brakes isnt the most correct. They recommend not using the brakes when trimmed out so that you dont take collapses easily in turbulence but if you do take a collapse with the trims out, then its time to use the brakes to re-inflate the glider and avoid the ground. Dont waste time pulling trims in and then finding the brakes after a collapse. Just because they say you can use brakes when trimmed out doesnt mean thats completely safe to do. Anytime you are trimmed out past around 50% and pulling brake, you are making the glider very easy to collapse. Also don't use full speed on this glider!
@JustOutHereTinkering25 күн бұрын
@@MitchG my thought was if I'm not allowed to use brakes full trims out and I use brakes to try and fix a collapse I took am I just going to make things worse and recollapse the glider using the brakes. With the Viper XC for example, no use of brakes allowed past 50%. What are the chances you just take more collapses using brakes to correct a collapse? That's where my head was at the time you know. But full speed and this glider won't be a configuration I ever find myself in again lol
@MitchG25 күн бұрын
@JustOutHereTinkering none of the gliders will take a collapse just from being fully trimmed out in calm air and pulling brake. They only collapse if you pull brake near the top speed. Follow the manuals and don't use the main brake when trimmed out unless things go wrong. Then use the brakes and or rear risers to recover the glider and then pull the trims in. When the glider is collapsed, the lines are slack and you cant pull them in. You must apply brake pressure or rear riser pressure to reinflate the glider and then you can pull trims in.
@JustOutHereTinkering25 күн бұрын
@MitchG Thank you, I will use that going forward. I've been lucky, or smart enough, to be high when these occur but I still want to be able to recover from an incident as quickly as possible safely.
@mmcowan27 күн бұрын
I have a Freeride 2 and a Viper XC and go full bar all them all the time (never low altitude). I've never had any issue on either of those wings. I just got the Carve 2, yesterday. Unlikely I'll go full bar and trim out on it, though. I don't know that I trust it.
@JustOutHereTinkering26 күн бұрын
Have you flown it yet? If so how do you like it?
@mmcowan26 күн бұрын
@ I haven’t flown this particular one just yet, but I flew its twin at Salton. I fell in love with its mind melting playfulness. I’m curious what tradeoffs I prefer over my Freeride 2. The Freeride has PK risers, speedbar you can trust, and is crazy fast on demand. I think the Carve 2 will be easier to launch and a little more fun to rip on.
@JustOutHereTinkering26 күн бұрын
There's a good chance you flew this exact wing then, because I'm pretty sure it went to the Salton after I had it. If you flew the 18 that is
@mmcowan26 күн бұрын
@ I flew the 20m one from Santacroce, and the one I just bought was Roper’s
@Kent-pb2jl27 күн бұрын
Did you get replacement risers? Those look like the older ones.
@JustOutHereTinkering27 күн бұрын
@@Kent-pb2jl This was a demo wing I had for a few weeks right after they were released. I imagine it has new risers on it by now.
@parahoping27 күн бұрын
Thanks for sharing this. I'm not a PPG pilot but a PG pilot, and I'm always at awe on how much PPG pilots "get away with". Don't take it the wrong way please, but in PG, we naturally seek turbulent weather (thermals or strong wind for dynamic lift), so letting go of brakes fully trimmed / speedbar is very alien. We are also thought to use the rear risers to keep a bit of pressure on the wing to allow to react to developing collapses early. These small tip collapses happen quite often, and they should generally be a non-event.
@Kent-pb2jl27 күн бұрын
Pretty big difference in gliders though. Most PPG/reflex gliders specifically state that you cannot use brakes when trimmed as that can cause them to collapse at speed. PPG wings are pushing the limit going 50mph these days.
@parahoping27 күн бұрын
@@Kent-pb2jl This is the same on PG gliders too. You should never use brakes when accelerated due to the change of AoA which induces collapses even in non-turbulent air. Lot of PG gliders nowadays are also adding more reflexyness too, getting inspired from the PPG wings :)
@JustOutHereTinkering27 күн бұрын
@@parahoping there certainly are a lot of differences between PPG and PG. One of the biggest things I see is A gliders doing SIV courses. You can collapse 50% of the wing and it takes "A bit for weight shift" to fly straight and wait for the wing to recover or pump to help bring it out. It's such a slow, calm, non-issue problem compared to the speed, weight, and perhaps thrust pushing forward on a PPG. Collapses are more often than not very sudden, violent, and nowhere near what I see in most cases free flying. I know it can get violent but speaking in "more often than not" terms....
@salvaldivia607227 күн бұрын
Would be nice to have a 360 camera for situations like this. Glad you're okay.
@JustOutHereTinkering27 күн бұрын
I agree a 360 cam would really show a lot in these situations. I am gonna work on getting one!
@FlyBabyFlyPPG28 күн бұрын
Thank you for share, ours point of safety are important.❤❤❤ reading and learning and doing is a big difference hahahaaa, never argue knowledge. Happy flying bro.
@reallife64928 күн бұрын
you f*** crazy! No brakes in hands!!!
@JesseWyrick-w9iАй бұрын
Lol crazy Karl cracks me up, great dude!
@leee22352 ай бұрын
Do you think this would be a great second wing as I’m currently flying a bgd magic it’s bloody slow and boaty!
@JustOutHereTinkering2 ай бұрын
@@leee2235 yes great 2nd wing. Can't attest to the Luna 3 as I haven't flown it, but Luna 2 is a great progression wing that is faster for sure!
@MikeCanFly2 ай бұрын
What trim settings to you use for take-offs and landings? No wind vs Wind ?
@JustOutHereTinkering2 ай бұрын
@@MikeCanFly fully trimmed in pretty much exclusively. I haven't found a need to trim out at all when launching or landing (unless the wind is so high it requires the additional speed to not fly backwards. But that's over 30mph wind and you probably shouldn't be in the air in those conditions anyway)
@DarioushAryan3 ай бұрын
great.... bravoo
@RBBLANES3 ай бұрын
Moore handy😂
@jammer45783 ай бұрын
What is most fun to fly? Carve 20 or Rpm2 20? I have flown almost all the exciting wings except the Rpm2. The Carve is my favorite so far. I like your videos especially for your trims in speeds.
@JustOutHereTinkering3 ай бұрын
@jammer4578 Thanks! The Carve is my favorite wing over anything else I've flown. It just does everything well. One thing I've learned is dropping 1 size in the wing of your choice makes a Big difference in the agility and dynamic feel of a wing. So if you wanna to turn that 20m Carve up 30%, get an 18! The most fun I've had was on a 15m Warp. But I've yet to fly a 16m Carve so that could always change with a smaller Carve.
@jammer45783 ай бұрын
@JustOutHereTinkering I'm sure this will sound crazy but I enjoy the responsiveness of 20 Carve over a 16 Freeride 2!? Thanks for objective videos rather than yeah it feels faster or the rpms feel slower.
@michroz3 ай бұрын
You said when it happened you didn't have brakes in your hands (even in the right hand - 13:43 ), but you did (10:37). Because you actually was making a right turn on full trim out, very probably on the speedbar as well, and in the bumpy weather conditions. You must have lost the toggle temporarily. So the advice is obvious: no brakes on full trim out (let alone on the speedbar) - use the tip steering. (Or put it other way around: no turns on speedbar) It had been an excellent decision earlier to make this test having enough altitude! Also: need to fly faster? - buy a delta or a ULA. Best Regards and thanks for the video! (Just noticed it has been a year since...)
@JustOutHereTinkering3 ай бұрын
@michroz yep I agree, could have accidently pulled brake but hard to know for sure. Definitely won't pull brake on speedbar again, and honestly I've stepped back from speedbar a bit entirely because I have had other unposted collapses on speedbar not touching brakes and in smooth air and it's just kind of soured me on the speedbar.
@Les__Mack3 ай бұрын
I like that chromed Vortex aero (?) exhaust.
@JustOutHereTinkering3 ай бұрын
@@Les__Mack that's just the OEM Factory R exhaust
@ryantaylor68453 ай бұрын
I fly 2 liners XC and then I’m hands off the breaks I know I’m taking xtra risk. Good job having altitude when hands off or it would truly be a crash video
@marcosgamingshorts455 ай бұрын
Global cause it not to wanna turn on It.Got wet in the rain and after that it did not want to turn on
@AidanMallon-hh2wj5 ай бұрын
How do you rate the pap tinox. Currently have an older model pap and looking for an upgrade. Trying to decide between new pap or maverick.
@JustOutHereTinkering5 ай бұрын
Pap is great. It holds up better to a topple better in my opinion, disassembles way way easier, is much cheaper to replace a busted net or busted hoop section. Also has an airbag to protect you from butt landings. Good unit for sure
@AidanMallon-hh2wj5 ай бұрын
Yeah had thought of these reasons also. In close I think it's a finer built unit. Thanks for your reply and keep up the good content 👍
@aws_hamza5 ай бұрын
Any tips for others that want to self-train?
@JustOutHereTinkering5 ай бұрын
Spend time watching a lot of videos, spend a lot of time kiting, and make sure you already have a pretty good knowledge base in aviation. Also find a large wide open place to fly from.
@FlyLokietek6 ай бұрын
Hej, dzięki Twojemu filmowi udało mi się ustawić gaźnik! wielkie dzięki. Before:kzbin.infoo0VSj4YjIO4 after:kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3e5aaNpftt3bNU
@JustOutHereTinkering6 ай бұрын
Glad I could help!!!
@JohnnyFaber6 ай бұрын
This is what Anthony Vella's crash video would have looked like if he had a safe cushion of altitude.
@TONYPARAMOTOR6 ай бұрын
hi. just wondering how long have you been flying paramotor? from your wing experience what wings have you flown? what is your wing you fly .. now? ill just check your site out now.hmm less then 2 years flying experience. please check my site out.🙃
@JustOutHereTinkering6 ай бұрын
I've flown a lot of wings, more than I can list. My current wings I fly are the 18m Gin Carve and the 20m Falcon 2. I have others but those are my current wings I'm flying. And ya I've been flying about 2 years
@lobbyrobby6 ай бұрын
So the title goes this wing tried to kill me yet when shit goes wrong all you say is bad idea, bad idea, bad idea??? I believe we know who's at fault here. Thumbs down
@fbrummitt7 ай бұрын
I'm selling my Scout Carbon One with factory R to buy a PAP. I'm so excited to get it
@JustOutHereTinkering7 ай бұрын
I think you are going to love it
@SMarti0187 ай бұрын
Looks like You were pulling right brake. You were in a right turn the whole time as your glider was turning to the right while applying bar. In theory a reflex glider becomes more collapse resistant when accelerated, not less. I doubt it was the weather. Hands off those brakes brotha.
@M12ike7 ай бұрын
never underestimate humane stupidity...
@Jay-ParaOz7 ай бұрын
Getting more power higher RPM wears the motor quicker, it’s sort of taking it as far lean as possible. At least if you’re not doing competitions is it really necessary to go to max lean? To make engine last longer running smooth as possible closest to rich side wouldn’t that be healthier for the engine not worrying about RPM’s so much?
@JustOutHereTinkering7 ай бұрын
If you can not cleanly get to full rpm (which is a range between 8700 and 9000) then you are going to build up carbon and cause issues with your motor. I'm not telling you to go full lean, my motor revving to 8700rpm is the richer side of the safe range. There are pilots running 9200rpm and that's dangerous. The spark plug should be a nice coffee brown. If it's way too rich it's not good. If it's too lean it's not good. Need to be adjusted properly! It's also about having a smooth power band. If you are too rich your RPM will jump 1000-3000 right when the high jet opens up. This is not good for you flying because you have no control of your power application, and it's not good for your motor either....
@parajerry7 ай бұрын
May I ask where you got the adjustment tool seen at 7:31? I searched Amazon for something similar without luck.
@parajerry7 ай бұрын
I see, it's just a straight piece thru the hole. It looked like a small tool you slip over the adjustment screw with a bar to facilitate turning. Due to the very limited space, I may have to design such a tool. A 3D printed small tool for adjustment would weigh nothing and could fly in the storage pocket so you always have it with you.
@JustOutHereTinkering7 ай бұрын
Ya that's just something that was already part of my carburetor. Some have them, some don't and idk why.
@parajerry7 ай бұрын
I want to know why the adjustment they don't want you to touch is the long adjustment screw and the low jet, which you need to adjust when changing LZ altitudes or seasonal pressure changes, is short? Seems like they should be the other way. Fortunately, my motor is running perfectly with just a small low jet adjustment.
@JustOutHereTinkering7 ай бұрын
I point to each adjuster with a large red arrow in the 1st 2 mins of the video showing you which is which. Low jet (short one) will be your primary adjustment for changes in altitude or weather
@shaneross74287 ай бұрын
Glad you had the altitude and made it through alive
@parajerry7 ай бұрын
Ozone wings manual specifically warn against applying brakes while using speedbar. Recommend you use the C-riser instead because too much brake will cause a collapse while using the speedbar. I can't tell in the video, but it looks like you pulled right brake while on speedbar. In slow-mo, your feet are up and you have right brake pulled...plus the speedbar is asymmetric making the problem worse. I think your collapse may be the result of not understanding the specifics of the wing. Based on your comments, I don't think you usually fly Ozone wings and have not learned the manufacturer's recommendations, especially the part on speedbar use. Different wings behave differently and jumping on an unfamilier wing with zero training, research, or browsing the manual and doing advanced things is asking for trouble. In no way was this a failure of the wing. This was the result of operating the wing outside the manufacturer's recommendations.
@TONYPARAMOTOR8 ай бұрын
pilot errors. live and learn or learn and live.
@osmardutour22058 ай бұрын
Hola sabes cuál es la diferencia entre walbro mpe090 to mfr090 ?
@FlyBabyFlyPPG8 ай бұрын
Great video Travis number 2 you look so alike your brother thank you.
@chrisbajema80028 ай бұрын
Was that a motor out or a wouldn’t restart? Sounded like a starter running continuously for a minute at 8:20 seconds into the flight
@JustOutHereTinkering8 ай бұрын
No issues on this flight, not sure what you're hearing but this motor was pull start only and it was running throughout the whole flight in this video
@lam19bo8 ай бұрын
What's that watch you're wearing called, I want one. Also just ordered this wing, gold 24m. Can't wait !
@JustOutHereTinkering8 ай бұрын
Garmin Fortrex 601. And I am sure you will love it!
@roelmattheeussen11179 ай бұрын
Even the expression "hold my phone/beer ... " doesnt apply here. Staying cool as a cucumber with that collapse!
@pablopicasso850210 ай бұрын
What watch do you use?
@JustOutHereTinkering10 ай бұрын
Garmin Foretrex 601
@407-Driver11 ай бұрын
how much do you weigh??
@JustOutHereTinkering11 ай бұрын
All up I'm like 120kg-125kg depending on fuel levels
@alberguti393711 ай бұрын
The title of the video is really wrong. Respectfully, the responsability is on pilot s side, fully. It is an unstable day, very much so, I would expect thermal activity pretty strong, and not very organized at that altitude. I wouldn let go of my brakes for any reason, and therefore know what is happening with the pressure of the wing. If you are not properly trimmed, plus playing with accelerator and phone, is a very good formula for collapse. Did you do the right thing, after collapse? Well you didn t make things worse, but that is about it. Reading yo ur own comments I would suggest a change in attitude, if you want to fly safer. It is a very instructing video, though. At least for many of us. Thanks for that, good luck.
@nice2care11 ай бұрын
What was the vario you were wearing on your wrist?
@JustOutHereTinkering11 ай бұрын
That is the Garmin Foretrex 601
@577buttfan11 ай бұрын
That wing didn't nearly kill you it saved you.
@lam19bo11 ай бұрын
If my weight is 125kg(paramotor, me +10l fuel,what's the best size wing to get ?
@lam19bo11 ай бұрын
I have had a vantage 2 for the past 3 years,would this wing be the next step up ?
@JustOutHereTinkering11 ай бұрын
This might be a bit large of a step up from a Vantage. I would recommend something in between like a Dudek Solo in 22-24m or you could even go to a Luna 2 23m. Maybe a Scirroco / Speedster 22-24m. Even a 22-24m Dudek Nucleon 4 could be good. The Falcon is a step beyond those wings in both speed and agility.
@lam19bo11 ай бұрын
@@JustOutHereTinkering thanks
@MikeCanFly3 ай бұрын
@@JustOutHereTinkering I've been flying the vantage 3 for 1 year, just bought the falcon 2. Why do you think it's too big of a step up?
@JustOutHereTinkering3 ай бұрын
@MikeCanFly it's a relatively big step yes. You're going from a very tame wing that's relatively slow, has no tip steering, and you can't really get in trouble with, to a super fast, dynamic, and somewhat unforgiving wing that builds an extremely large amount of energy quickly, will land and launch MUCH faster, has 2d tied in and 3d toggles. I would recommend a step in between. scirocco, Nucleon, something along those lines.
@CaptainMedoc11 ай бұрын
Dude, nice video, and thanks for the share ! In my opinion, you were taking too many risks : look at the sky : it's smoking ! ... You can expect strong thermals and turbulence at anytime with tis weather ! And you were flying low (I would say less than 1000 feet), you were flying accelerated, un-trimmed... and with your pone in your left hand, and your right hand out of the toggle ... what could possibly go wrong ? ;) The wing is NOT dangerous... you were taking some risks, and you had a great reaction !
@JustOutHereTinkering11 ай бұрын
No I don't necessarily think the wing is dangerous even though my clickbait title would suggest that. The weather wasn't ideal, I said as much, and the risks I was taking I didn't fully appreciate at the time. I've flown other wings in similar situations doing similar things and had no issue with it but every situation and wing is different. I have made some adjustments to my flying and decision making based on this incident!