Common Mode currents will see both inductors, so why not short out the two inputs and the two outputs?
@OMICRONLabTutorials13 күн бұрын
Your proposal is also possible and should give similar results.
@abtinst15 күн бұрын
The described solution is based on the idea of conducting the filtered noise to protective earth, and getting rid of it. But in Class II devices, where you don’t have any protective earth to conduct the noise to it, how we filter the noise?
@farisikhmal486816 күн бұрын
how about magnetic field on shorted traces ?
@OMICRONLabTutorials15 күн бұрын
Can you please be more specific on your question and send it to [email protected]? Thanks!
@farisikhmal486814 күн бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials I want to know what happens to the magnetic flux when there is a short between power rail and ground especially on multilayer board. Is the magnetic field cancelled out or somehow concentrated and disturbed resulting in stronger field?
@OMICRONLabTutorials14 күн бұрын
@@farisikhmal4868 generally a short will cause a high current and a high current can cause a high magnetic field. If this field disturbs something else will depend on the situation.
@ats8911727 күн бұрын
At 33:31 Loop 1 is drawn going from the cathode to the anode of the diode. This would occur during reverse recovery, but only for a short period of time. Was this loop meant to include the inductor and output capacitor?
@OMICRONLabTutorials27 күн бұрын
Dear @ats89117, we just talked to Dr. Ali Shirsavar, and that was his response to your question: "Loop1 is drawn for when the current is conducting through the switch, i.e., when the switch is turned on. Loop2 is drawn for when the current is conducting through the diode, i.e., during switch turn-off. From a layout perspective, we are just trying to identify which loops have high di/dt at "some point" during the switching cycle. Apologies for the ambiguity!"
@ats8911727 күн бұрын
Very good presentation, but we probably didn't need to know that you hadn't worn a shirt since last March!
@hassankhanbabaie2209Ай бұрын
Hi, I'm gonna use the device to measure the common mode impedance of a motor. Which configuration is suitable and which connector type should I use?
@OMICRONLabTutorialsАй бұрын
Dear @hassankhanbabaie2209, thanks a lot for your question! Please use this contact form (www.omicron-lab.com/contact/support) to send us the schematics of your DUT and some more information.
13:15 Is the additional +180 of phase on in the Analyzer Suite true for only the loop gain measurement? In other words, if I switch the probes around to measure the compensator as in 43:60, will its phase also be shown with an additional 180 degrees of phase? Based on actual measurements with my Bode 100, i'm seeing a low-freq phase of a Type-II OTA compensator as around +90 degree. But in a spice simulation it starts out at -90 degree. Just wanting to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly. This is a super-informative video by the way. Thank you Florian.
@OMICRONLabTutorialsАй бұрын
The "additional 180° phase shift" is actually not "additional" but it is there in the real physical system whereas it is not there in a theoretical open-loop analysis of a negative feedbacks system. Bode 100 will always measure the real physical system. In case of an inverting error amplifier with integral part, there is a -180° phase shift from the inverting configuration and a -90° phase shift from the integrator part. In total this is -270° which equals +90° phase. Did you use an inverting configuration in your spice simulation?
@zktec1Ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials You are exactly right. I went back to my simulation and sure enough did not have it configured to inverting. Even in my own derivation of the compensator I didn't propagate negative sign through. Now everything is reading +90 on the compensator's phase at low-freq. Thank you Florian for point this out.
@jean-pierrebrasile1242Ай бұрын
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:04 *🎓 Introduction et Contexte* - Présentation de Christophe et de son parcours professionnel, - Introduction au sujet des convertisseurs LLC. 00:42 *🔧 Fonctionnement de Base du Convertisseur LLC* - Explication des principes de commutation et de l'impact des parasitismes, - Définition de la zone de fonctionnement sûr (SOA) et de ses implications, - Importance des réseaux de suppression pour réduire les pertes de commutation. 06:00 *🔄 Principe de Fonctionnement des Convertisseurs LLC* - Description des éléments résonants : condensateur série, inductance de magnétisation et inductance de fuite, - Avantages de la topologie de commutation douce pour les applications à haute fréquence. 10:11 *⚡ Contrôle du Flux de Puissance* - Importance de la symétrie du rapport cyclique 50% pour assurer une commutation correcte, - Utilisation du temps mort pour éviter les courts-circuits transitoires et assurer la commutation à tension nulle (ZVS), - Impact de la fréquence de commutation sur les caractéristiques de transfert du convertisseur. 14:00 *🔍 Analyse des Impédances et Contrôle en Fréquence* - Étude des différentes régions d'impédance capacitive et inductive, - Importance de la fréquence de résonance pour le fonctionnement efficace du convertisseur LLC, - Explication des modes de commutation et de la gestion des courants de magnétisation. 17:08 *📊 Caractérisation et Simulation* - Utilisation de modèles de simulation pour prédire les performances du convertisseur, - Importance de la simulation des transistors et de l'adaptation des temps morts, - Outils et méthodes pour vérifier et optimiser le fonctionnement du convertisseur en conditions réelles. 22:02 *📈 Régulation de la Sortie du Convertisseur LLC* - Stratégies de régulation de la fréquence de commutation pour moduler la puissance de sortie, - Impact du réseau résonant sur les caractéristiques de transfert DC, - Conception des contrôleurs LLC pour assurer une régulation précise et efficace. 24:29 *🔬 Analyse de la Fonction de Transfert* - Difficultés de dérivation de la fonction de transfert pour les convertisseurs LLC, - Importance des fonctions de transfert de contrôle à sortie pour l'analyse de la stabilité, - Méthodes avancées pour comprendre et modéliser la réponse du convertisseur aux stimuli de contrôle. 25:44 *📉 Fonction de Transfert et Simulation* - Analyse des fonctions de transfert des convertisseurs LLC, - Importance des simulations pour comprendre les réponses en petite et grande signalisation, - Utilisation de Simplis pour extraire les réponses AC en petits signaux. 27:32 *⚙️ Conception et Modélisation* - Importance de la caractérisation du point de polarisation pour des résultats précis, - Simulation des courbes de réponse et ajustement des marges de phase et de gain, - Analyse des tolérances des composants et de leur impact sur la stabilité. 32:19 *🔄 Techniques de Contrôle Indirect* - Présentation de la technique de contrôle par charge pour les convertisseurs LLC, - Avantages de la réponse de premier ordre pour la stabilité de la régulation, - Modélisation simplifiée et analyse des marges de phase avec des techniques de contrôle indirect. 37:57 *💡 Contrôle par Phase et Impulsion* - Introduction au contrôle par phase et par impulsion pour la régulation des convertisseurs LLC, - Méthodes pour ajuster la durée des impulsions et contrôler indirectement la fréquence de commutation, - Utilisation des transformateurs de courant pour la gestion des surintensités et la robustesse du convertisseur. 51:44 *🔄 Contrôle par Déphasage* - Introduction au contrôle par déphasage pour les convertisseurs LLC, - Principe de fonctionnement : observation des courants résonants et modulation du cycle d'oscillateur, - Impact sur la commutation à tension nulle et la régulation du flux de puissance. 53:10 *🏠 Implémentation du TSC (Contrôle par Déphasage)* - Implémentation du contrôle par déphasage dans un package autonome de 20 broches, - Caractéristiques : tension de fonctionnement jusqu'à 800 volts, diodes bootstrap intégrées, - Modèle de modulation Simplis pour vérifier le comportement du modulateur et la réponse en fréquence. 55:03 *⚡ Comparaison des Techniques de Contrôle* - Comparaison entre les techniques de contrôle par fréquence directe et par déphasage, - Avantages du contrôle par déphasage : meilleures marges de stabilité, réponse en fréquence améliorée, - Application typique : convertisseurs PFC et LLC pour des applications de 100 watts. Made with HARPA AI
@lupingliu74982 ай бұрын
Hi Christophe: In 20:20, 'The Process of Finding the Right Point', right chart, why the two current curve have a suddend change after the POP start? In my understand , the POP is try to find the correct operation point, include the operate current , if have such sudden change ,is it means the current before POP is not correct ?
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
For such a specific question, can you please get in contact with Christophe directly? Thanks!
@ankitpratihasta15562 ай бұрын
Sir, please could you explain how to measure the loop gain if we use the hall sensors for the voltage measurement?
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
The principles explained in this video apply to any control loop / feedback where the information flows in form of a voltage. Please contact [email protected] for specific questions.
@brendanlynskey9692 ай бұрын
Great video. Around 21 minutes in, you mention a video in which you discuss how to handle too much ramp in the controller. Could you provide a link or the title of the video? Thanks in advance.
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Not sure but maybe Dr. Ali Shirsavar was refering to a video that is not yet released. There are a couple of videos coming on his channel "Biricha Digital".
@mohammadrezaadib89992 ай бұрын
best snubber explanation! thanks. What if the flyback has multiple isolated output? what would be the N?
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Thats a good question. We will check if we can find an answer. You could also measure the voltage on the switch directly since N is just used to calculate it from the reflected secondary.
@javan10152 ай бұрын
Thank you for the very interesting video. I didnt know about thie reactance paper. Can it be used as well in the case of a double stage filter?
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
The principles should be the same, so it should be usable.
@ramagirikuna15862 ай бұрын
Hi sir, would you clarify me that how you have considered the value 2.5 to 5 in C clamp calculation,is any reference for that ???
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
In the video, the reference points to Basso's book: Switch-Mode Power Supplies Spice Simulations and Practical Designs". Please check there. Thanks!
@ramagirikuna15862 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials Thank you so much sir..
@ramagirikuna15862 ай бұрын
Hi sir,how to select the primary diode rating for RCD Snubber design..
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Please contact Biricha directly for this question.
@CHkorkskruv2 ай бұрын
Thank you, Florian, for a very interesting video! I have a couple of questions. - At 9.20 you show two impedance plots. Is the blue one only a dream, or would it be realisable? How does it decrease the impedance seen by the load at the high frequency peak? - An interesting demo would be to use the Bode/Picotest combination on some real, third (or fourth) party PCBs to demonstrate the difference between a good and a poor PDN. - The formula introduced at 13.30 might need more explanation. - Would it be possible to make a (very delicate and expensive :) ) Kelvin-type probe with four needles, two for the excitation (current), and two for differential measurement of the voltage difference across the point of interest, e.g. a capacitor? The differential measurement would use both the input channels of the Bode. All three coax shields could by connected at the probe, so ground currents would still flow in the measurement cables, but as the difference is measured, this would not matter. Well, I am sure you tried this already :) - At 43:30 the impressive noise floor of the Bode 500 is shown. It is not clear to me how the voltage across the short is measured, with channel 1? - How important is it at higher frequencies, > 1 MHz, to have the PCB under test powered on? Looking forward to the next video from you, C
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Hi! The blue curve at 9:20 is a simulation done by Picotest. It follows the "flat impedance approach". Steve Sandler is doing trainings on how to achieve this. I think the blue resonance peak is lowered by removing the low-impedance valleys. Thanks for the hint to the explanation of the 2-port shunt-thru formula. Regarding the noise-floor, the CH1 is not connected, the receiver 1 is routed internally to the signal source as a reference signal like in the S21 measurement. Powering on the pcb is important to see the dc-bias loss of ceramic capacitors when they are charged. For a more detailed discussion, please contact us via [email protected].
@paulpaulzadeh61722 ай бұрын
Just wonder if the filter character would change if you run DC supply through it , i mean, it shouldn't be biased with DC supply 12 volt , 10A to see how impedance would change . Maybe your inductance would be saturated with 10A.
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Dear Paul, can you please get in contact with Günther directly? We don't know the technical details of his work.
@paulpaulzadeh61722 ай бұрын
Nice , very good sound too, good big ppt too. How did you choose value , is it from Dr.Ali shasvari video?
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
Dear Paul, can you please get in contact with Günther directly? We don't know the technical details of his work.
@inductr2 ай бұрын
Haha did not expect that from the always sober lab so very clever 😅 can we buy the old units now!
@f.vazquez92592 ай бұрын
LoL didnt about Dr's skills as a comedian! I hope his review is out soon
@gerdschneider60982 ай бұрын
This is what the proud owner of a "Bode 100" writes: Really funny and well done!
@Janamejaya.Channegowda2 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing.
@michaelchang32343 ай бұрын
Oops! Anyway are you going to release any records for the recent design symposium? I'm looking forward to it. I'd missed it.
@OMICRONLabTutorials3 ай бұрын
Yes, the recordings should be online within the next few days.
@michaelchang32342 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@biswajit6812 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials when you are going to make online,it's already been 10 days
@OMICRONLabTutorials2 ай бұрын
@@biswajit681 They are live now: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHeaeqBmmN-Lpckfeature=shared
@biswajit6812 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials Many Thanks!!
@MAYDAYDEEJAY3 ай бұрын
No Dr. Ali was harmed 😅 I'm exited to this unit in action 😮
@biswajit6813 ай бұрын
When you are going to upload this year videos?
@OMICRONLabTutorials3 ай бұрын
As soon as we have prepared the recordings. It can take some days.
@biswajit6813 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials Thanks for the response... please keep priority of Dr. Ali Shrishabar and Basso video
@esmfamil39293 ай бұрын
nice , دمت گرم هموطن
@esmfamil39293 ай бұрын
thanks for your nice explanation
@koWang-lb7hd3 ай бұрын
can you help educate why there is no mirror of diode current on the return path? because it goes into inductor and change to inductor ripple current and mirrored to GND instead?
@maksymkloka78193 ай бұрын
Great video. Good refresher.
@lordfabri3 ай бұрын
This is one of the best videos explaining with simplicity current loops! Great and thank you for sharing.
@OMICRONLabTutorials3 ай бұрын
Thanks! We will share your feedback with Dr. Ali.
@orientaldagger69204 ай бұрын
Do you have a video on choosing injection point of multiple feedback systems like an opamp with multiple feedback?
@OMICRONLabTutorials4 ай бұрын
Unfortunately not. As far as we know, in a multi-loop system all loops should be stable on each own. Best would be measuring each loop on its own if possible.
@JorgeSilva-em8pf4 ай бұрын
Dear Andeas. Which is the Magnitude, Phase, color? Your voice pitch as very low, therefore, sometimes, we can not understand some words. Regards.
@Gengh135 ай бұрын
Good introduction to a subject that is not known by a lot of engineers.
@kagakagazobaza26095 ай бұрын
Is this for robotics?
@OMICRONLabTutorials5 ай бұрын
Mostly for electronics. 🙂
@xfxox6 ай бұрын
Dumb question. Why just not to put a single diode across inductor so the power just dissipated in it? Every single amateur scheme have it😅
@OMICRONLabTutorials5 ай бұрын
The RCD clamp does contain a diode that gets forward biased when the spike gets too high. Note that dissipating also impacts efficiency so the goal is to dissipate only as much as necessary to protect the switch.
@xfxox5 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials thanks, i'm learning, your lectures are very helpful
@user-zb9jn6rl3q6 ай бұрын
Stuart barrie scriven get outlook for Android Geoffrey
@mohamedramdane46027 ай бұрын
THAT WAS BANGING! THANK U SO MUCH
@msaad.20307 ай бұрын
It can be used to test coupled coils used for wireless power transmission? like estimating the mutual coupling or coupling coefficient between the coils?
can we consider the filter capacitor after the bridge as a damping network, or we have to plug it directly parallel to the line filter?
@OMICRONLabTutorials7 ай бұрын
What do you mean by "after the bridge"?
@mohammedabdeltawab98827 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials I mean can we use the rectification/smoothing capacitor as the damping capacitor
@OMICRONLabTutorials7 ай бұрын
@@mohammedabdeltawab9882, I think it depends on what you want to damp and the specific configuration. Not sure if this can be answered "in general".
@mohammedabdeltawab98827 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials iam talking about damping line filter, instead of using a series RC parallel to the line filter, could we come consider the rectification Cap with it's ESR as the damping element
@OMICRONLabTutorials7 ай бұрын
@@mohammedabdeltawab9882 sometimes the ESR of the capacitor can be sufficient such that no extra damping element is required. Not sure how the rectification diodes are changing that. I think that depends on the frequency where the damping is required.
@TYGAMatt8 ай бұрын
Sorry to bother you again. My transformer is pri: 9T and sec:150T so a ratio of 0.06. I measured a primary leakage of 162nH by shorting the secondary and measuring with my LCR meter. For the diode snubber I need to refer this leakage to the secondary. Am I correct that it is 162nH / 0.06^2 = 45uH? I can then calculate the resistor as: 2*Pi*Fr*0.000045 = resistor value
@OMICRONLabTutorials7 ай бұрын
If your snubber and switch are on the primary, then there is no need to refer the measured leakage to secondary. For further discussion, please send a message to [email protected].
@TYGAMatt7 ай бұрын
@@OMICRONLabTutorials I have an RC snubber across the mosfet on the primary side. It works very well. Now I want to put a snubber on the diode but not exactly sure the leakage value to use for the resistor value.
@samusaran69138 ай бұрын
it is not clear to me how a phase (PM) measured in a certain frequency affects a transient response. How to explain that?
@OMICRONLabTutorials8 ай бұрын
Phase margin is measured exactly at the crossover frequency. Crossover frequency is the natural frequency of the closed-loop system. Phase margin is a measure for damping. This means, phase margin affects the damping of the response of the closed loop system.
@dheeraja5117 ай бұрын
Phase margin is measured at gain cross over freq, i.e., when the open loop gain is 1 or 0dB. In order to ensure stability (based on Nyquist criterion), by the time the phase shift introduced by the loop is -180 degrees, the gain of the loop should be less than 1 (0 dB). Because, once the phase shift introduced by the loop exceeds -180 (after phase cross over freq), it becomes a positive feedback, and as a result, the output can grow indefinitely. So, after phase cross over frequency, the loop gain should be so low that the positive feedback should never take off. So, phase margin tells us when the loop gain reaches 1, how much margin is still left for the feedback loop to reach a phase shift of -180 degrees (or to become a positive feedback). So, this measurement should be made at the frequency when loop gain reaches 0 dB..
@audiokees40458 ай бұрын
Making one for a audio amp needs much care when designing because the converter has to stay out of burst mode, this is audioble, a open loop LLC is oke for audio amps.
@sc0or5 ай бұрын
An audio signal is a hard task for any PSU because a constant change of a power is needed. I think the only way how a proper audio PSU can be built, is to give an amp a lot of not stabilized power. 95% of A/B amplifiers have simple emitter followers at a power stage, they don’t need a stabilized voltage, and D-class with a D/S modulator will react to a voltage change way faster and accurate than any of SMPS. A resonant converter is suitable because it can work with a huge output capacitance. But it has to work on a resonance frequency always (independently of a load). Otherwise a hard switching makes no sense to prefer an LLC to a phase shifted full bridge. And this is hard to do. Because most of time a consumption stays at 2-10 Watts. When it is 100W you won’t hear the artifacts. A music will be too loud and amplifier distortions are bigger.
@audiokees40455 ай бұрын
@@sc0or You are right thanks. Building a smps for amps is challenching because of the fast peaks also in audio, as you did say a open loop llc do work the best. I have simulate also a LCC and this one do better what concerns low load and can do work in open loop with a overvoltage detector. Fact that a amp do not need a stabilized voltage is because it has feedback. without feedback like mine hybrid amp the driver sections needs a good supply. the output stage as you said not, ripple excist in drivers, I have use for the driver tubes a gyrator, the tubes has plus and minus 130 volts driving the mosfets directly, and with a offset opamp with a output delay protection who do switch on when tubes are stabilized. This amp works now al for 16 years, stil with wires and los hanging pcb,s.. I am also nusy with a smps for the tube section, it has to output 12,6 v 6.3 v 350 v 2 x130 v the low voltage 10 amps section is regulated. Still struggle what to use LCC pr LLC for this, was adviced to use a voltage doubler for the 350 volts. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJfWqmiirb1meKcsi=LJnftkiukHMaNr6V regards The
@sc0or5 ай бұрын
@@audiokees4045 Wow It must be a challenge to build an SMPS for a tube amp properly. I wish you good luck with that
@audiokees40455 ай бұрын
@@sc0or Ehh yes it is some kind of challenge to do, but these days we have nice simulation softwares who are quite accurate. It is not a big tube amp but hybrid, the driver tubes need drive the mosfets in the output, have a separate supply. when do a full tube amp this supply need to be slighty different. I can not use a open loop lCC because tubes need filament voltage who has to be stable and proper voltages. but the supply will not have trouble with peaks, the power is quite low in total.
@sc0or5 ай бұрын
@@audiokees4045 "the power is quite low" - sometimes it's a mater of space but a high power. For example I'm now limited with 40mm height case (for a digital audio device but any way). And a max transformer power I can use is about 15-20 watts which height is less than 30mm. Let's say we'd like to use a very linear 6SN7: that's about 11 watts per a tube. Plus thermal requirements which limit number of tubes + number of transformers in one case for example (if I would need to have a tube pre-amp there). Sometimes only SMPS offers a solution.
@sdgb53638 ай бұрын
Very nicely done! Truly made me realize why control theory is a powerful tool in power supply design!
@thebrakshow74158 ай бұрын
You mention to take care using an E-Load because if can interfere with the DUT. What do you mean by this? Do you have any examples of issues with E-Load on any of your videos? Also, what is the resistive load you are using. I'm having a hard time finding a bench top purely resistive load. Currently I'm using cheap rheostats dials.
@OMICRONLabTutorials8 ай бұрын
Depending on the control mode of the electronic load, it also incorporates feedback and therefore it is a dynamic system as well. This can distort the measurement of the loop. We also use resistive sliding loads or power resistors mounted to a heat sink for loading.