10:12 salute? Aside from some tiny percentage of human societies that exiated at the time european colonialism (such as some native amaerican groups) I dont think theres ANY society worth saluting. They all sucked. Anyway it doesnt require any ideologues of left or right to convince significant swaths of capitalist society to salute it - forces inherent to bourgeois society make "free" and willing particpants, many of whome are both enthusiastic and nonwhite. In popular culture some of the most enthusiastic figures saluting capitalism are american descendants of slaves. The leftists that horne criticizes merely acknowledge the obvious fact that the bourgeois societies birthed by revolutions like that of 1776 had a dialectical impact, half of which sets the stage for the next and most liberatory revolution yet - the communist one. Im not far into this interview but have watched many like it and have yet to learn Horne's recommendation for a valid revolutionary praxis. He's a brilliant man and engaging communicator so I will always click on his videos but am waiting for his explanation of how we overcome the world that capitalism built.

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4iooqhjg6h3gZI .. funny moment ... Marx says we're under the sway of the untrue [Aliyah provides the literal version plus a comment and a line preceding it] .. i assume with "kicker" she means we are 'as if' stumbling amongst alienations via/ caused by / from our own desires objectified / breaching briefly, which gets the circular arcs of space time crossed and crisscrossed to spin intrigue of infinite recession .. like rainbows ...

Dr Horne is GOAT

Horne is going off we’re only 20 mins in! Thank you Daniel for facilitating this

Once again Dr.Horne is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🙏🏾 blessings and protection Ashe'

Thank you and Ashe Dr. Horne.

"I know what you say is true in practice, but is it true in theory?" 😂😂😂

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Fascism will be toned down in the United States with China and Russia as concerned obversers.

Brendan interestesting

LOVE YOU TUTTTTTT

wow that was really on point at 1:36 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXLblKulZayMo6s

I wan to say this channel is amazing- thank you comrade 🫡✊🏽🔥🙌🏽🙏🏽

I’ve been reading Losurdo’s book for the last month, but I don’t have a grounding in many of the authors he writes about though I’m familiar with them. I look forward to listening to this discussion as I finish reading the book.

At least Horne does us the service of declaring his clear unambiguous anti-Marxism, attacking Marxism for its "coldblooded [i.e. 'scientific'] view of capitalism as leading to socialism" and calling the "paid sector of the working class" inherently "class collaborationist," calling the "unpaid sector of the working class," i.e. "the enslaved," by contrast the (exclusively) "human element." This goes directly against Marx/ism's view of labor and capital and of proletarian class struggle. The title of his book The Counterrevolution of 1776 is unintendedly accurate in that it indicates his own counterrevolutionary viewpoint on the U.S. and its history. So I hope that his viewers and readers aren't confused about Horne's own un- and anti-Marxist view, which he is honest and not at all confused about himself.

Really am enjoying and receiving so much from your platform. The Dr. Gerald Horne interview was marvelous. In solidarity and love from Bermuda

Good show thanks

What they have to learn nothing the parties are the same they are one this race game that is being played on the people

Do it really take a vote to place a white supremacy like Trump to go to prison the hold system is rigged Trump is where white nationalism want him to be because America has not changed from it's racist as beliefs

Dr Horne is brilliant and his dialectical materialist internationalist reading of history- is brilliant. Historian, Lawyer, Scholar, Author- very important voice and analytical lens. Also the political ontological position of this created Blackness… this is rich for psychoanalytic theory no? Fanon is Hegel’s long lost heir via Freud and Marx- I mean as a Black woman from the colonial Caribbean - the fact that the brutality enacted upon enslaved African bodies and the children of African diaspora UP to this DAY(!!!!) the indifference in academia, in politics this constant ignoring of this because of White ( and class collaboration/ betrayal of certain segment of Black persons) discomfort is CRAZY to me!! Once again exposing the hypocrisy and moral turpitude of this white European modernity hegemonic era.

Africans fighting against racist colonial enslavement have been fighting for the full control of their own existence in terms of the land, the resources, the institutions, governance and economic structures which includes Africa itself. They have not been fighting for socialism or communism. That is simply false. European colonies, by their very definition, are corporate for profit entities built on the absolute control of land, wealth, resources (including human resources), institutions and economic structures in a neo-feudal system. And 1776 was not a "revolution" as opposed to a corporate spin-off of a franchisee from the original colonial corporate parent, keeping the same goals and agendas as the original enterprise. Because the British colonies were all chartered as companies, including the Massachussets Bay Company, the Jamestown Company and so forth. And most of the charters are the basis of the constitutions in many states, just like many of the "founding fathers" were also board members and the governors of the colony itself in the House of Burgesses, which is the origin of the structure of congress in the states and federal government.

Dr Horne is brilliant and his dialectical materialist internationalist reading of history- is brilliant. Historian, Lawyer, Scholar, Author- very important voice and analytical lens.

What does Dr. Horne mean, Edward Landsdale was the best President the Philippines ever had? 🤣🤣🤣

Dr Horne was on fire here.

Thank you. Great conversation. I appreciate the wide range of discussions to think about and engage in

18:37 pretending that Trump is an “aberration”. This was hysterical to me. Also, the naming of these various charades as “lazy thinking.” I agree wholeheartedly but I am thoroughly convinced that a wide majority of people have almost no intentions of educating themselves. It’s just as in Animal Farm by Orwell: the animals are satisfied by the new propaganda slogan, “some animals are more equal than others,” and they ignore their lying eyes. How does one adapt to such a sad reality? Our country is obviously a hoax and a disaster. Psychopaths and materialists are at the helm and they can’t seem to go fast enough.

Really enjoyed this conversation

Very well said.

Dr. Jerald Horne is the most prominent Marxist historian of our time! His analysis of history is at a level of accuracy and thoroughnesses that cannot be challenged.MUCH RESPECT TO YOU OUR AFRIKAN SCHOLAR!

30:55 Claudia Jones!📢

Dr. Horne one substack!!!

Just wanted to add that Karl Marx himself - unlike the orthodox Marxists whom Horne criticizes - derisively mocked the notion that capitalism’s prehistory of ruthless barbarism somehow ‘had to happen’ to bring about a higher stage of economic development. For example, writing about “the Herod-like slaughter of innocents” in ‘Capital’ (Fowkes’ translation), Marx mocks Sir Frederic Eden for adopting “a blasé attitude toward the horrors” (Reitter’s translation) entailed by violent land grabs and for seeming “pleased in extending his congratulations on this ‘necessary’ process, which had to take place before capitalist agriculture… could be established” (page 686). Notice Marx put “necessary” in scare quotes. As Comrade Žižek has pointed out, relieving ourselves of moral responsibility by claiming any depravity will be exonerated from “the perspective of Last Judgment” is a Stalinist ploy. Sweeping historical crimes under the rug was not Marx’s modus operandi, nor was any secular dogma of predestination.

Great interview. You drew Dr. Horne out about things he's usually more quiet about. Thanks 🙏🏻

Unless I missed it, did you not mention that Jim Morrison was really into Nietszche? I see Rock music as the working man's noble morality. A hot take.

What a time to be alive 🎉

Holy this collab🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾Bless y’all

Elisabeth fN Did NOT falsify N texts (Will to power). It s a Bataillian myth. You can conpare Montinari translations and 1930s editions

Julie had a mic drop moment.

First, thank you for sharing this discussion. Second, thank you for making persons of color central to the topic and not a tangent or detour. Hosting Gerald Horne exemplifies this as much as including Walter Rodney. Have you had any analyses of the Haitian Revolution on your platform or can you suggest one that gets into the weeds? I think Hegel's and Marx's omission of the Haitian Revolution significantly undermines the resonance of their work.

Don t interrupt the interlocutor, pkease

Looking forward to reading Dr. Horne’s work

Truly appreciate this convo. I’ve been a defender of Dr. Horne, even where I had a few questions of some fine points here and there. But he clarified so much for me to the point of me being fully on board with his approach, in particular his point of lack of true acknowledgment of the unpaid African laborer to the development of the American project, the start point for historians in looking at the history of the American project in order to evaluate it, and his rejection of this need for Black people to find optimism in the American project. Many of Horne’s critics misrepresent his approach and this conversation very much sets the record straight. Excellent.

A 1,700% profit means you can make $1,700 from $100, not $1.

We need to move away from this Tarzan ethos, "Me Class, you Race." Dr. Horne is the most important historian of our time. Spread his work widely!

The table has turned….his base is right wing….again!!

I really appreciated this conversation/debate. I think it would be further enriched by an engagement with the work of Lea Ypi, particularly the arguments she makes about socialism, liberalism, and morality in the three lectures she recently presented at Critical Theory Berlin (available on their KZbin channel). Ypi's direct experience of the final years of state socialism and then neoliberal shock therapy in Albania, combined with her philosophical training gives her a unique and interesting perspective.

You may as well call his theory one of democratizing capital.

The sense one often gets is that liberalism (at best) is a way station to socialism. Especially when it comes to political power--commanding heights etc... Liberalism might have more of a role in the area of culture broadly defined. Thus liberalism is perhaps necessary but not sufficient. We must move beyond it at some point.

Perfect timing! I felt left out with all the discussions on western Marxism while I was still working on class struggle.