Thanks for the post. I learned quite a lot. I have a question about starting up a roaster and the first batch. Is it important to let the roaster stay at charge temperature for a while so that all the metal parts achieve a sort of steady state or is it ok to put in the first batch as soon as the probes show that charge temperature has been reached? If it needs to stay at charge temperature for a whlie, then how do we decide that the ideal conditions for the first batch has been reached?
@CoffeeMindAcademy28 күн бұрын
This is a bit different from roaster to roast. Most roasters I have been working with takes around 30 min to preheat and depending on the roaster the procedure can vary a bit. But generally you need to keep the roaster close to the starting temperature for around 30 min. You know that you have done the right thing when the first roast behaves like the subsequent roasts of the day
@decentespressoailliobullet5748Ай бұрын
36:20 no... colour "intensity" would be the SATURATION of the colour... what I think you are getting at is, as you say, it's about a grey scale... A grey scale is only about luminocity... how bright or dark it is. So you are measuring degree of darkness, not intensity of colour.
@CoffeeMindAcademy28 күн бұрын
I have learned from people with phototechnical background that the term 'photointensity' means the total amount of 'light' acorss wavelenghts so that's why I'm using it as the monocromatic concept so that it is independent of 'color' (wavelenght). Recently a study came out of UC Davis discussing this in detail and when I have read that paper I'll make a separate podcast episode that will be also launched here on KZbin about the topic.
@decentespressoailliobullet5748Ай бұрын
This is very interesting... so if it's just time and temperature, there is NO such thing as "stalling"!? Ie, if you are roasting potatoes and the temp is held at 200 degrees, it will still be cooking, ie beans do not have to be subject to a/ ever increasing temperature b/ avoidance of "dips" and "flicks" c/ ever decreasing ROR... correct? Lordy what will Scott Rao have to say
@CoffeeMindAcademy28 күн бұрын
There is such thing as a curve and it's shape but it has to be a big thing on the curve itself and not just a small bump.
@irhamghani41402 ай бұрын
interesting take
@booter59562 ай бұрын
Thank you for this episode. It was clear and surprisingly simple and very helpful at the same time. It opened my eyes to get rid of destructive data during sensory evaluation (things im not really sure of). Much love from Poland
@edwindeo2 ай бұрын
Thank you Coffee Academy for sharing such 0:24 comprehensive research ❤
@user-xb3xs4wl9u2 ай бұрын
I commend you on your stance. As a relatively new coffee roaster, 3500 roasts on my Huky and 285 on my Dietrich, (4 years) what you say makes complete sense. I’ve tried to follow the ROR dogma and wasn’t able to make it correlate with my out comes. As a small coffee roasting business I hope to take your intermediate/advanced coffee roast course to help me roast coffee better. Everything you say is on track with my experience as limited as it is. I don’t want to waist time and money on irrelevant theories want to roast the best coffee I can. Thank you. If you agree chime in, it i’s important to voice your voice your opinion even if you disagree with Morton. Roasting coffee isn’t cheap, so waiting time and money on “theories” and not science is a detriment. I will pick science every time. 🤜💥🤛
@oceanoecoturismo8323 ай бұрын
🍒☕❤📚👌🏿
@oceanoecoturismo8324 ай бұрын
🍒☕❤📚👌🏿
@oceanoecoturismo8325 ай бұрын
📚🍒☕🙏🏿❤🔥
@michalgrabski99695 ай бұрын
Hello. You said that shorter development time will give more fruity acidity and longer development time less fruity but more chocolaty. Do you think that the time to first crack will also influence acidity in the same way, I mean shorter time to first crack more acidity and later first crack less punchy acidity? Regards from Poland :)
@patrickchamberlain39805 ай бұрын
Thank you. Fascinating. I got an earlybird Kickstarter IKAWA Home back in 2017 and have used it once or twice every week since. I confess to slipping into just pressing the button these days - using IKAWA's roast recipes. Watching this I'm tempted to get back into playing around with adjusting the recipes again.
@lintanghutama6 ай бұрын
Great interview Sam. Thank you.
@niccoloaurelius15876 ай бұрын
I think you mentioned possibly doing a Kaffelogic roasting course. As a new owner of a Nucleus Link (basically same machine but different software) I would love that. For now, roasting is a passion and hobby, but there are plans to maybe specialize in a certain variety of coffee and have a small business of it.
@grantitow45016 ай бұрын
This is great! I just started on your coffee science methodology podcast! You've done so much in the past two years. I can't wait to see what you will do next!
@RobertW808 ай бұрын
Hi Nicolai, thank you for the video! I am enjoying watching it, and am a happy owner of a Kaffelogic too. I am a complete discord beginner, and would love to join your/Kaffelogic forum. Do I need an invite to join the community? Cheers!
@Youtuberkt8 ай бұрын
can you cover this with Kaleido M1/M2/M6 coffee roaster?
@Youtuberkt8 ай бұрын
this is a really good talk, that was more objective and reasoned about coffee roasting very well!
@MJay5589 ай бұрын
Thank you Morten i am looking for e learning course and consultancy for my small business.
@danmohan198111 ай бұрын
Great content! I'm a home roaster thinking of giving a go professionally. This information makes so much more logical sense to my scientific brain than all the other mumbo jumbo from internet "experts". A short development time not giving time for the heat to fully penetrate the bean giving a more acidic and complex flavor makes so much sense. Just like cooking a steak!
@isaacwinton11 ай бұрын
just wondering how fine you grind for your lighttells reading?
@romanplains11 ай бұрын
Finally! Somebody is making sense.
@abiggs11 ай бұрын
Took this course last year. Well worth it if you have a Bullet.
@namangoyal1273 Жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the remarks on the new SCA Cupping Protocol
@roberthunt1540 Жыл бұрын
We're all dancing around the name of Scott Rao.ROR is his baby,
@justinpalentchar6687 Жыл бұрын
This is is great!
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it :-)
@justinpalentchar6687 Жыл бұрын
This is great! As someone new to Roasting I'm glad I found you Instead of getting lost in Other people's Opinions. And yes And yes ratios make no sense make no sense in Roasting or brewing...
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Hopefully 'keep it simple' will be helpfull for you in the future. Stick to simples concepts with fewest assumptions!
@nappiespeight5593 Жыл бұрын
😻 'PromoSM'
@tomgatehouse1491 Жыл бұрын
Great to see the academy! Do you have any more info on the Probatino modifications i.e. components used for the gas flow and monitoring?
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
I use phidgets to extract temperatures and also gas pressure of the main flame (correlates with the flame size) and also speed of frequency modulater which controls the speed of the airflow steplessly and all of this is then sent to Cropster or Artisan. I don't have the details on how to convert gas pressure and frequency modulator to phidget as it was done by some professionals 10+ years ago...
@erharddinges8855 Жыл бұрын
The RoR-Discussion is based on the meaning of Scott RAO that the best tasting coffees he experienced in his life were roasts with a steady declining RoR curve
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
If you look for the concept on google and youtube you will see that there are a lot of different trainers who teach this, so I'm not sure where it started. At CoffeeMind we would like to take the people part out of the arguments and just discuss which concepts makes sense and which does not as we assume that everybody - both trainers and students - just wants to use the concepts that makes most sense to use so that we avoid waste of time and confusion. To claim that the shape of a noisy, curveshape-magnifying, confounding and artifact burdened derived parameter such as RoR is a good guideline for optimizing flavour is wrong and misleading for all the arguments I state in the webinar. I don't know who came up with idea first and I don't care who teaches it but we need to address the concepts directly and clarify them and then just assume that we are all in this together when it comes to improve and refine the way we work with concepts when we create concepts for educational and consulting purposes.
@newnoot Жыл бұрын
If you haven't yet, do try roasting on a conveyor pizza oven ( hot air impingement) and in a Rational combination oven. I've done both, as well as in my cast iron drum. Won't mention results... There are some interesting observations on time to FC and roast color results awaiting you. Try it yourself if you care to
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Sounds like an interesting experiment. I have 50 ideas and not a lot of time, so I'll add this to the queue :-)
@newnoot Жыл бұрын
@@CoffeeMindAcademy Thank you… maybe I will mail you my results. I am a student of yours. And your simplicity of roast technique has helped me immensely ( @KoffyKraft)
@marcin.sobocinski Жыл бұрын
I can only say that the best sentence from the whole video is: "actually we have measured it". There is so much low quality "pseudo science" on YT on coffee (not only on coffee of course) that sometimes you just want to switch it all off. Always a pleasure to listen to Morten :)
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Thanks @Marcin. Yes, let's measure a bit more of all the claims out there! If they do a measureable difference at all and if they do, how big is it. And how is it measured in the first place. A lot of stuff to do!
@ewaldcrombach8392 Жыл бұрын
@@CoffeeMindAcademy Totally agree! What brewing method did you use to measure TDS and extraction? cupping bowls? would love to reproduce this at my roastery
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
@@ewaldcrombach8392 just good old cupping in cupping bowls.
@JCleggy Жыл бұрын
I love this seminar because it calms my obsessive side. This is good news! Great coffee is still a lot of work, but we can put in that work where it makes a bigger difference.
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Yes, we need to be specific with the goal we have in order to make decisions without wasting too much effort on areas that does not matter so that we can spend the limited time and ressources we have on the things that mattes in the context we have choosen to provide value. Happy it helps 🙂
@kjetilslettengundersen6944 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for a great webinar! Question: When you aim for agtron 75 at 3 minutes, are you meassuring whole beans or ground beans?
@psycool666 Жыл бұрын
I believe it will be for ground beans, even the particle size of the ground coffee influences the colour value
@kjetilslettengundersen6944 Жыл бұрын
@@psycool666 thanks 😊 I guessed so, but weren't completely sure.
@erharddinges8855 Жыл бұрын
Wanted to watch originally, now I am happy I can see it now
@MrDistill Жыл бұрын
Fabulous content!
@edbourgeois8601 Жыл бұрын
Great that the RoR considerations are continuing to be understood. The initial RoR development was on an experimental hybrid design roaster that specifically had almost no metal mass. Mechanical agitation and low air flow, electric heat.
@deenman60 Жыл бұрын
got the bundle, thank you for the knowledge and sharing, all the best, Denis
@jasoncasale3708 Жыл бұрын
Until you can find a better way to systematically judge smell and color of coffee development than time IE to fast or slow development then time in roast cycle color and smell will always be the judge of optimal development. I am okay with you not liking time and rate of rise and the judge of development, however you have not suggested an alternative method of tracking the development life cycle in roasting coffee either. I would also argue slowing down the rate of rise right before the first crack starts a gentle soft first crack as energy exports from the bean in every crack. This slows down the malliard reaction the sugar chain development and stretching it out as long as possible to the beginning of second crack. I opt to reduce the gas right before first crack until it is finished then gently raise the gas gently every minute softly to the beginning of audible second crack and finish of the roast. This is optimal all though you could argue this is objective taste preference, and I would say you are right. Basically reducing the gas right before the first crack exothermic state keeps the energy on the same path in general. Not reducing it before exothermic adds energy to the equation instead of keeping it consistant. Not adding heat back in after first crack will stall energy and the roast moving forward into the second exothermic state second crack and end of roast for me. Stalled state or raise of rise causes fermented yeast type bread flavors. Push a roast to fast through the development phases causes black tipping or scorching on the tops and bottoms of the beans. Also to agrissive development causing fisures blow holes in the beans structure in an aggressive cracking phase. TAKEAWAY = if you don't want to use time and temperature IE rate of rise, you must suggest an alternative to measuring the development stages in roasting consistantantly. You have not done that.
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Hi Jason. Thank you for your thoughtfull answer. I'm not saying not to use time. I'm suggesting to use time and temperature separately and only when it is relevant (what I explore in the beginning of the blogpost under the title "Where is the concept of Rate of Rise useful in coffee roasting?") to look at the Rate of Rise. If you want a more thorough and systematic approach to our understanding of coffee roasting I will refer you to this scientific article that is available for free here: www.mdpi.com/2306-5710/6/2/29# and after reading that this one could be relevant to understand how we see time, temperature and flavour related and which concepts to use to describe it: www.mdpi.com/2306-5710/6/4/70 Hope it makes sense :-)
@alebl22 Жыл бұрын
Well said. The only reason we even consider it, is because someone wrote a book about how important it is. The shape of the bean curve and thus the ROR is so dependent on machine design (thermal insulation, bean probe location/thickness, etc). If I base everything on a "pretty" shaped ROR curve on my 6kg machine, this would have me hitting FC around 8min and dropping coffees too early. Or, because my machine is so well insulated, I would need to have a lower turning point to have a steeper curve during the drying phase and it would require lowering my preheat quite a bit and then firing harder then I would normally. In reality, if I hit FC at 8 min, the coffee will taste good for 2-5 days and then flavor drops off fast, whereas a FC around 9:15-9:45 seems to be the sweet spot for my machine and results in a full-flavored cup that holds on to flavor for over a month.
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Hi Alex. It seems many educators use this (and therefor students) so that's why I have been so frustrated not being able to make sense of it myself.
@abiggs Жыл бұрын
Another great presentation! Always learn so much.
@emilieoberson3410 Жыл бұрын
Simply thanks you!!!
@marcin.sobocinski Жыл бұрын
Morten, I love the content and your approach. I can only compare it to the audio Hi-Fi and Hi-End industry, where everybody is sure to hear the difference between two $1000 cables...but nobody does blind tests. My only complain is that the prices on your website are not very attractive. Unfortunately the sensory training kit is soooo expensive :(... I bough it but still feel very uncomfortable with the price I paid. Plus there are some bundles that when you buy like two of them (different ones) you get severa items twice (or you do not get any discount if you receive it once) - like the taste wheel for example. I think that your educational offer still needs to be improved, but the approach and insight is great.
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Dear Marcin. Thank you for your frank comment. And yes, there is a lot of comparisons with the HiFi insdustry where it is also sometimes a bit difficult to really know if something sold is below or above the sensory threshold. As for the price of the kit we are trying to make our products follow a price ladder so everybody can get started without breaking the bank so that Ida's online e-learning Sensory Basics only costs €30 for almost 2 hours of training and the next step is the Sensory kit at €250 which is based on 8 years of research and is currently the only evidence based education system out there developed by a small company with only two employees and no financial backing than our own pockets and so far we are still far behind the break even point for this project. The boxes are hand packed by Ida and her team and we hope to be able to lower the price in the future when we get scale of economy but right now we have no alternative to this price with the cost of production we face with this small amount sold currently. Other then getting daily training for 4 weeks for €250, which considering the price of other comprehensive training programs (SCA Sensory Skills Foundation of one day is around €200-300 for one day depending on the venue) I hope that you feel that you are supporting research that has implications for the community not even dealt with (or at least very slowly) by the associations with budgets 100000 times bigger than ours :-) If you are not happy we will of course give you a full refund. We do offer discounts at our live webinars so if you participate in a webinar you can expect to get an offer if you stick to the end, so please stay tuned for future webinars. Thanks again for your kind words and I hope the above makes sense. Of course we take your comment into consideration and will re-evaluate if we are doing the right thing with our price/content ratio for our products. We'll try to give it a creative overhaul and see what we come up with. We are doing our best :-)
@bazejwalczykiewicz3773 Жыл бұрын
As always inspiring in its simplicity. Teaching and creation of vision at one time 😊🤝👌 Thank you Morten and Ida!
@CoffeeMindAcademy Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it Blazej 👍😊
@andrewcramer72142 жыл бұрын
phenomenal interview thanks! makes me all the more excited to get mine next week!
@NickWattsOregon2 жыл бұрын
This is such a great conversation, thank you Morten and Tim!
@abiggs2 жыл бұрын
Love my Bullet! Combines my two passions: coffee and technology.
@jpjay15842 жыл бұрын
nice!
@jameskilbourn97982 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great presentation, Morten. Well explained. It gives me a new perspective on research and problem solving.