003 - Is Vatican II actually Trad? [PREVIEW]

[@jamesdewanca]

The council known as Vatican 2 was complex and multi-faceted with some excellent theologians present as well as some nefarious modernists. That being said in the words of the Dominican Yves Congar "The protestants have certainly had their revolution" There are indeed some beautiful things written in the constitutive documents as well as some blatant ambiguities

[@Thedisciplemike]

Is it an ecumenical council?

[@jamesdewanca]

@@Thedisciplemike It is known as the 21st ecumenical council

[@Thedisciplemike]

@@jamesdewanca maybe its not

[@jamesdewanca]

@@Thedisciplemike That may well be, but that's above my pay grade

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

Agreed, mostly. -TSF

[@brewcity2317]

Not sure if my question falls under the subject of ecclesiology (study of the Church). The Orthodox of Eastern Christianity have retained some aspects of ancient Christianity now lost or forgotten in the West. The process of painting 🖌️ ("writing") sacred icons, such as the prayers involved, and how to "read" or interpret messages in sacred icons, is one example. *Question:* the Nicene Creed explicitly states, pertaining to character marks of the Church, that the Church is catholic, but it never mentions orthodox albeit that character mark is assumed, so why did the Orthodox name or label themselves orthodox instead of catholic?

[@2righthands816]

The Orthodox do name themselves catholic too as the official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church. The _Orthodox Church_ or _Eastern Orthodox Church_ is more of a common name that stuck as it makes the distinction between them and the (Roman) Catholic Church more obvious.

[@brewcity2317]

@@2righthands816, huh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the reply.

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

"Orthodox" is the term which obtained among the Greek Catholics, and Greek Catholics still use the term in their liturgy. "Catholic" is retained in their liturgy at the recitation of the Nicene creed. However, the "Orthodox Church" does not exist: there is only "the Greek schisms" which is the reality: the various Orthodox churches which exist have retained various traditions including icons, but these are also present among Eastern Catholics, so the Catholic Church, understood as the 24 different Catholic churches within the One Holy Catholic Church, always retains what the Orthodox churches have. It is the Orthodox churches, more than the west, which have not retained the Tradition, by losing the Latin Fathers like Augustine. See my upcoming book Against Eastern Orthodoxy from St. Paul Center for more. -TSF

[@Adam-nu9gu]

Yes

[@Carol-el3df]

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