06 G0602 Turning Facing Parting

[@2OQP]

Parting bits that have 0° edge angle(like the one you are using), will let the weight of the part and speed(total energy) be strong enough to shear the part away. Parting bits that have 10-15° of angle will let you setup up the pointy part of the blade on the side of the part you are seperating(this in fact is set in the part number of the blade/insert that you buy), it will have a clean break, or mostly clean. You are humble and that is quite refreshing on KZbin. Be safe.

[@rom14141]

Experience will overcome all of your issues. Don't worry, it takes time. I'm a 4th generation machinist in a successful family owned machine shop, the old-timers always taught me to SLOW DOWN the feed and speeds AND take a much deeper cut. In mild steel it's easy to tell when your talking a good cut because the chips come off bright and almost brassy but quickly turn a dark steel blue as they cool. Another thing to watch for is the chip break, the perfect chip off a lathe looks like the number 9

[@PinpointR]

Rus...I had the same problem for YEARS, crap finish, no matter what i did except for very lite feeding using oil etc helped a little, there is A LOT of pysics happening here, bit angles and sharpness are everything , however I will tell you the one thing what finally gave me a mirror finish and big smile....DIAMOND bits, amazing and expesive will literally put a mirror on some materials yeah!

[@Nicor4701]

small note, dont worry about your inserts as much as the speeds, feeds, and depth of cut. Also, when you are facing the part, take the insert off of the part when you are evacuating off center, thats what destroys your insert. Also, stainless gets stringy when your insert gets dull and your speeds and feeds are off. Hope you read this, keep on machining

[@DFWrancher]

I have this same lathe coming next week. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos!!

[@turtlemann14]

surface footage for finish on 1045 should be about 700-1200fpm for a carbide insert with coolant(700 for rough). take no less than half the radius of the tool nose (common radius are .042 .0313 .015) when roughing with carbide, use a federate of no less than .01(.012-.014 seems to work pretty good with a .0313R for a chip) finish dependent on NR parting surface footage should be in the 200-350 ballpark. you can get directional inserts that will get rid of the nub on your finished parts.

[@timtynan2787]

I've done a trade to learn all the right ways of machining. 4 years school and an tradesman for supervision. sometimes l see things that will get people hurt. I'm sure there is night school classes that can teach the safe way of going things cheers.

[@whitebear26]

good video - few tips : 1) coolant / oil is always a good thing for hard metal 2) for good surface try even feed rate 3) try diferent turning speeds for different metals - see a chart for metal feed rate 4) for stainless finish try - high turning speed \ slow feed rate , also grinding 5) try HSS / ceramic inserts

[@coloz3882]

you speak very clearly and I found your humble honest approach really good, I am learning too and enjoyed it thankyou

[@Zonkotron]

For less chatter with parting tools: Either feed feed feed. The cutting force puts tenson on the machine, changes resonant frequency and preloads everything, eliminating play. Or lube lube lube. Slow revs and slow feed, but lots of oil. A continous thin stream. The chip will start flowing free instead of ripping and make a wonderfull crispy sound. One quite good cutting oil is rapeseed/canola, it makes a horrible mess though. It dries into a sticky gum after a while ^^

[@rom14141]

One final tip...buy some square tool blanks (without coatings or carbide tips, just keep it basic) and grind your own tools on a bench grinder. You'll learn quickly what works and what doesn't. It takes some practice to get the angle, relief and chip breaker right, but you'll have much more controll over your cutting. Insert tooling works best on a cnc lathe. Facing and turning with a hand-ground tool: lead with the heel of the cutter, not the tip...many people get this wrong.

[@SWLAMECH84]

I would start with high speed steel, a sharp HSS bit will handle most all the material in your video. Our little seem to have a hard time getting the full benefit of carbide in all situation and I've found when my finish sucks, HSS (sharp HSS with the correct geometry) is the way to go. Grinding lathe bits also helps you learn how cutter geometry affects your work. Thank You for taking the time to document your progress !!

[@russtuff]

Eventually I hope to graduate to nice inserts, but as hard on them as I am I would rather destroy cheap ones for a while. Thanks for watching!

[@baseline46]

Hi , nice lathe . I'm using CO12,5% HSS for stainless and I'm getting very good results . Slow down the speed and use some coolant . Use those angles to the bit - Side Relief 10 degrees - End Relief 8 - Side Rake 20 - Back Rake 8 . Keep the Side cut angle and the End cut angle very small to avoid chartering and a radius less than 2mm . You can get a mirror finish with stainless.

[@RockRacer1982]

Now I want one! Nice video. Please keep them coming.

[@Vikt68]

Really enjoyed watching, and your commentary thanks 😁 👍🏼👍🏼

[@russtuff]

good tips! the tools holder is perpendicular to the work as i set it with my dial indicator so it splits the angle between turning and facing. eventually i might try different tools for different operations. the inserts are chinese, and besides mild steel and this piece of stainless i have had very good luck with them. i've tried a couple different oils, but haven't found one yet that really makes a huge difference in finish quality. is suspect the insert is the biggest factor.

[@PinpointR]

Rus..watch this you can skip toward the end its a super hi dollar industrial setup, but its a diamond cutter and the finish will blow you away, this is why I started using them............ Diamond Turning Copper Sample with Measurements.wmv

[@russtuff]

I'm sure any person in any country is as likely to wear gloves as any other. Thanks for watching :)

[@freenergyterminator]

sharpen the knife edge to a smaller angle and add a compressed air or emulsion nozzle to the tip; also make the knife movement constant (automatic)

[@oldmachinist9265]

first d.o.c. needs to be more than .01, I recommend at least. 05 at 400 to 500 rpm and minimum of .008 feed. on cutoff use a right hand insert your using a neutral. add coolant or cutting oil will help with finish

[@lepompier132]

One more thing, they are specific grades of carbide insert for each type of material. That's why you need to calculate the proper speed and feed and also all inserts have different radius on each corner. like 0.030" are for rough and 0.015" are best for finishing. The speed and feed info is also true for milling.

[@JohnGrimsmo]

Great video! Those inserts are fine, fancy ones won't give you incredibly better surface finishes. For turning just tweak your feedrate and rpm until it looks right, I'd say spin faster. Try to shoot for blue chips, if they're still grey you're babying it too much haha. For parting, even with a RH lead it still leaves a pip, very hard to eliminate it, just gotta get used to it. The face of the parted piece beside that pip will always be ugly. 304ss CAN machine awesome, never tried 316.

[@meocats]

the knub is there before parting tools cuttin face aren't parallel with the turning axis, this is because if it were, it would chatter back and forth trying to center itself. With the angle cutting tip, it tends to bend one way, and thus removing your chatter. It also means you have to prepare enter so your blade can bend in the right direction, to avoid rubbing on the parting blade's shank.

[@bartparet]

his tool is most certainly centered, the one and only reason the knob is there is because there isn't any other way when you are parting either one or the other part always has one :) the reason herefore is dead simple,you can't cut all the way to the middle with the part still attached when you start getting close to the center of the workpiece,the cutting force is starting to push away the little bit of metal that still stands,eventually leading to it breaking off :) sorry for my grammar :)

[@russtuff]

This video is now 8 years old and all of my questions about these operations have been answered long ago. I made the video shortly after buying my lathe. I am no longer reviewing comments on this video, but feel free to say something if you think other viewers might be interested. Thanks for watching!

[@smevox7490]

Come back!!

[@davidgreen2442]

The tool inserts can be requested to finish on the cut piece or retained blank, there is a slight lead to the sharp edge hope that helps, also the aluminium needs a light lube to stop swarf pick up on the insert

[@russtuff]

Thanks for watching! If you have questions about anything, feel free to ask :)

[@russtuff]

I appreciate your comments.

[@Endofcomment]

Use uncoated really sharp inserts for aluminum they usually say for aluminum. The type of insert you are using are DCMT. Also the pip that is left on your parted off piece is usually on the piece that leaves the lathe unless you are using an insert with an angle to leave more material on the lathe side, we use 6 degree parting inserts so they remove more material on the part to be parted and less on the stock in the chuck.

[@andrewlivesey5147]

That is not a dcmt, that's a ccmt, and also you are using far too slow speeds, and too small a cut which is why you get a bad surface finish, you need to have faster feeds and bigger finishing cuts to work the carbide to give you a good finish, also you need to cut wet when parting or you will always get chatter, and the pip will always be left unless you use an angled parting insert like he said, you must be new to turning surely, 0.2mm cuts on steel? Damn, I have an old haiser lathe, and it still does 3mm cuts (6mm on diameter) with ease

[@tboost007]

@russtuff I normally keep a set of cheap inserts for reserve, and high quality inserts for different materials/conditions, including different types of steels. Brand name inserts will have surface feet per minute or metres per min listed. If you use this formula it will give you your rpm. D = diameter RPM = [(m/min x 1000) / 3.147] x D You will find more formulea in insert catalogues too which are very useful.

[@rick371]

after a finish on the face, come away in Z first before coming away in X, stops double cutting

[@russtuff]

@oneyaker thanks for the tip. i'm not all that interested in grinding my own tools for now, but i will definitely look for the aluminium high rake inserts.

[@TallDrinkOfCoffee]

A quick safety rule, if your work is sticking out of the chuck more than 3 times the diameter, u should use a center to keep it from flexing and possibly damaging anything

[@russtuff]

@irfp460 i agree on the loose clothes. unfortunatly the only time i get in the garage is after i get off of work (past midnight) and it's been below 20F at night lately. time to get that propane bottle refilled :) interesting idea on the pip. i may just try the reverse trick!

[@russtuff]

@JohnGrimsmo thank's john! i've been playing with the feeds/speeds a bit and am getting a bit better finish. once i get it dialed in i might just do a whole video on each Shars tool sorta like a review. i'm having a blast with the lathe, but it's to cold to be outside all of the time :)

[@MrBurnTec]

if you sharpen your tips your self, sharpen the plunge cutter at a slight angle so its cuts one side before the other so you dont have the nub on your work :)

[@russtuff]

you're likely correct. i think when i filmed this video it was my second day turning :) you are definitely right about the parting speed and lube.

[@tboost007]

Thats why i said "if possible" of course each persons lathe speeds will vary, and i didnt mention that the feed rate should be suited to the insert and material which can be taken from your prefered insert manufacturers website. And also the power of the motor in the lathe plays a part too. So we have to compromise with the tools and machinery we have. Still good to experiement though to see what suits you best.

[@rom14141]

Finally, remember the theoretical center doesn't actually move or spin.. think of it as just a stationary point. Put your tool on center, always drill the center before facing if the part has a center home, cut at least as deep as the tool nose radius for best finish. Those are some of the standard tips of the trade, many more as you need, message me anything you want advice on.

[@manofstl2000]

Also keep this in mind the thing with carbide tooling it like to take large amounts of stock off rather then skim cuts, skim cuts generally produce a poorer finish.

[@russtuff]

@tboost007 thanks for watching, and for the advice! i've received a lot of comments about RPM and i'm going to be doing a video on that subject (speeds for cutting mild steel with carbide) in an upcoming video.

[@rick371]

i recommend SECO WALTER and Tungaloy inserts, tungaloy are the cheapest and are good for most materials...seco and walter specialize in different materials

[@Merilious250]

Coolant, some WD40, or what I use a lot for milling Mild steel is M1, made by Starret would help a ton with your surface finish problems. Mild steel is a pain in the ass to machine in my experiences. As far as your stainless cutting, the problem is work hardening. Unless you cut below the hard layer you just created it will machine like crap. The hard layer can be as much as 0.030" below the surface.

[@douro20]

I've seen some pretty good Chinese tool holders and indexable endmills, and sometimes they package them with very high quality Mitsubishi inserts...

[@UpcomingJedi]

To avoid the nub on the cut off part, angle your cutting edge where the right side of the insert is longer than the side closer to the chuck (like the inserts on a wood saw ripping blade) so that it cuts off the part and leaves the nub on the stock.

[@markrich3271]

Use a water bottle to spray light water on the steel when turning to keep you piece cold. Turn your rpm down also .

[@russtuff]

I think I didn't have everything tuned and tightened. I was turning some 1018 this weekend and getting similarly bad results, and I swear I could see the tool flexing under the material. I plan to do a follow up video in the coming months, when I take some time away from my mill and do some upgrades on this machine :)

[@russtuff]

Fantastic! Thank you for posting, you have very helpful tips!

[@rom14141]

Back the cutter off the workpiece after each pass and your finish will improve. Using dark cutting oil applied with a brush or a kool-mist running coolant (Hangstefers CF 502 is nice) helps, but if you're cutting deep enough and getting the right chip oil and coolants are not necessary.

[@thisissoeasy]

Really great demonstration... Thanks for uploading this educational...

[@rom14141]

Facing: No more than about .060", you don't want to throw the part out of the chuck...even if it's wrenched down as tight as you can get it the tool pressure can push the part off center and the part could come out. Turning: Always (usually) turn cutting towards the chuck, just like you're doing in this video so the tool pressure doesn't push the part out. With the right tool and setup on a 5-7hp lathe you could probably take as much as 1/4" per side on A36! That doesn't mean you have to, but

[@JohnGrimsmo]

@russtuff Pick up a small bar of 4140 next time you're at Metal Supermarket, if you get the chips blue it machines BEAUTIFULLY. Should be shooting for 1200rpm, though for under 1" I would personally crank it to 2400 for light cuts. Also the chip folding over in your vid could be due to a dull/chipped insert, look at it really closely and it should be visible. Great videos, please do keep 'em coming bud.

[@Samyouell11510]

i think the majority of the issue was feed rate and rpm speed not perfect for each other......what were your rpm's?....i machined some hot rolled 4140 over the past few days at work and it came out with a great finish....granted i did it on the CNC...we do have a few manual lathes that i love using....im still fairly new into the machinist world but i love it and love the challenges it brings every day.

[@russtuff]

Nope. I shot this video a month after buying the lathe and had zero experience at the time. You are likely correct.

[@someoftheyouse]

Don't know if this is still current for you, but the finish issues look to be because your machine is not very rigid, hence the improvement on the light cut finishing pass. Inserts don't typically cut well on a light pass, they prefer 15thou dept of cut minimum. But if your machine is not rigid enough the cutter will bounce around like hell. Hope that helps.

[@someoftheyouse]

Also, more speed for inserts, at 1 inch OD you want to be up around 1500rpm for mild steel.

[@Darkdra9on22]

Well first of all to get a clean nice surface with it you have to cut off at least the size of your radius on the cutting edge. That means if you got a radius of 0.4 mm on that plate you have to take off at least 0.8mm of the diameter from your "hotrolled steel" The cutting edge of your cutting tool has to be a bit lower than the center of workpiece. If its higher than the center it will only rub on the surface and wont cut the steel. Other reasons could be the wrong speed of the spindle or wrong feed. Usually there are datas on the package of the tool, but they only work in the best case. Your workpiece has to be stable, low amount of vibrations etc. That means you have to adjust the speed not only to the material but also to your machine.

[@Soctav]

I'am just a beginner with this stuff but i've seen similar problems with the finish when your lathe is not tighten enogh and you have things moving a bit from side to side. With the parting tool, i've seen lathes where you can mount the parting tool on the back of the piece so you don't need to change the tool every time. Perhaps your insert is designed for a system like that. Hope this helps.

[@dtiydr]

The reason the surface isnt getting smooth (i dont mean shiny) is due to movements and very small gap in any bearing. The only way to get rid of this is to use ballbearings, neeldebearings or similar for every moving surface and not slide bearings unless of a very high quality.

[@cheese2772]

you can find a chart that gives you the preferred surface feet per minute based on what material you are cutting, then you use a formula to find your optimum rpm based on your surface feet per minute. say you are cutting 303 stainless. you can cut up to 200 surface feet per minute. (200sfm) X (3.82) / (diameter of finished part) and it gives you an rpm. (200 X 3.82 / .3543(9mm)= 2156 RPM). that will save your inserts big time no matter what the quality of insert.

[@russtuff]

this is the sort of comment i like to get. thanks for watching!

[@johna.ludwig2311]

I'd love to see a video of you changing the speed of the spindle here.....since it isn't variable speed. Do you have to switch the belt around and how big of a pain is it?

[@russtuff]

@davidahtes2012 thanks for watching!

[@dikkybee]

Have worked with carbide for over 30 years. Correct speed and feed and correct carbide grade and profile is always needed. Stainless is easy with the right tip. I normally finish with cuts of no less than 40 thou on diameter. By the look of the finished you complained about the speed was too high. Aluminium is turned quick, steel is slower and stainless is slower again. Look on the web for what turning speed you should be using. Get them right and all metals are easy.

[@TallDrinkOfCoffee]

Have you considered investing in a cermet tool? They hold up a lot better to heat

[@rom14141]

(Continuation)... .100" per side is no problem. At the very least try to bury the tool below the scale on the first cut. Also try to cut at least as deep as the tool nose radius, otherwise your tool will deflect some. SLOW DOWN, bury the tool and take a cut...heard it all my life and it works.

[@DanuAl-FLY]

I realize that the discussion is old, but I'm curious - what was not right? Favored those vibrations? Thank you.

[@fabio40]

Cutting fluid buddy! Cutting fluid!

[@lucasblackledge3878]

On the Hot roll, SFM should be about 90 so just a guess (depending on diameter) run the rpm around 2200 and run your feed rate up to break the chip

[@oldschoolcuc]

At 4:25 I was like wtf are you doing dude? :D

[@russtuff]

@imajeenyus42 for a good finish this does seem like good advice. i plan to do a more in depth video with these Shars inserts and i'll be trying everything to get the best finish.

[@larryrestainer9949]

when parting off a piece tip of tool must be on center. below ,it won't cut and will damage the cutting edge,as it passes c/l .as it over it will just push metal. in order for parted off pc to not have nib , face of cutting tool must be parallel to center line of lathe or a little advanced. bad finishes on s.s. usually comes from dull tooling ,a brushed on lubricant would help.

[@manofstl2000]

If you some lubricant while using the parting tool, perhaps just some 3 in1 oil that will work to help the cutting and cooling during the cut. grant it will smoke like a SOB but it will help and also preserve tool life. Sandvick does make a good insert, but Kennametal is also a something to check into. as for speed and feeds using hot rolled i would try turning at around 400 - 425 rpm's at feedrate of 3 - 3.5 ipm. this i figure for about a 1in Dia stock.

[@russtuff]

This insert came from Shars, and the last time I ordered from them the inserts were packaged as Zhuzhou Cemented Carbide Cutting Tools (ZCCCT). I assume the insert in this video is the same. When I become confident that I won't destroy every insert I use then I'll start forking out some cash for more familiar brands :) As it stands, I would rather cut my teeth on some less expensive inserts and live with the possibility of an inferior result (surface finish, tool longevity, etc).

[@TheLightningStalker]

It looks like your other axis might be moving during the cut and giving you the finish problems. It could be backlash or loose jibs. Probably not lose jibs though because then the tool would be jamming and stuff breaking. Tightening the jibs though couldn't hurt. It would make it more difficult for stuff to move on its own. You could also lock the axes you're not using during the cut.

[@russtuff]

@token5gtd Great tip! As this video is 8 months old, the lathe has been apart a couple times so I'll have to check and see if this is still happening. Cheers!

[@ALUMATRIX]

i see this is from jan-2012,, i need to get a lathe about this size,, after the passage of time do u like it or do u wish u had stepped up to a south bend?? i dont want to spend a fortune but how has ur lathe held up and have u ever needed to bore or turn and stay with in +/- .0005,, can this model handle these tolerances on occasion?? any input on what u like or dislike would be great,, thanx

[@viscache1]

Grizzly sells the T10294 7 PIECE INDEXABLE CARBIDE SET 1/2", which I bought for my Griz 10-22 but I bought correct inserts for different metals..extra $75.

[@Ajicles]

I tried doing High Carbon Steel with HSS Cutter and it just junked the tip so fast. Went over to Carbide and it cut smooth like a mirror no lines finish.

[@F22xSTEALTHx]

Cold will warp more than hot rolled, cold nicer to cut though, at least in my limited experience. You need to almost double your RPM's from HSS to Carbide. Also Steel likes deeper cuts for better surface finish.

[@amountain2]

Your surface finish problem is normal for cutting steel on a light-duty lathe like this. I have similar problems with my 12x36 lathe. I never have this kind of problem on a big industrial lathe.

[@russtuff]

@gmanalready Fantastic tip! I will definitely be trying this soon. Thanks for watching.

[@jlcoger]

Around 1:20 you say you aren't getting through the rust layer. Which is true but it's because either the stock is either out of round or its chucked up and not running true. As you can see it cut half the part.

[@firstmoonboots]

Feeds & depth of cut are important with that insert tool. It will work better with the nose radius buried in depth of cut (-DOC-) and at least 1/4 of radius in feed. So, if the insert is 1/32"R I want at least .032"DOC and .008" feed minimum for best tool life & part finish. Try real hard not to go below .008"DOC x .008"feed.

[@russtuff]

@kingmike40 Thanks for watching! Check my video about metric threading where I use some 12L14. Cuts like butter!

[@russtuff]

@TheSTEVEBOY1 Thanks! I will start searching for those inserts today. I guess I can always just use the ones I have (I bought a couple extra when I bought the tool holder) for grooving.

[@russtuff]

@Zecamala1234 I have actually seen that done, but never tried it! Thanks for reminding me, I will give it a whirl.

[@davidduffield7553]

The height your turning tool is set at gives you the nub in the facing paeting operation.

[@geneus23894c]

Mild steel is hard to finish good. Up the depth of cut and/or rpm until you get some blue chips and it will finish better, or use a sharp positive rake HSS instead of carbide.

[@FJoeForty]

Looks like a Midas LTD. I'm currently taking out all of the excessive play on mine, getting the centers aligned perfectly. I love the learning approach in this video here......I'm thinking of doing some karate, so I'm going to set up my own dojo and film my technique. Then everybody can post fantastic advice and/or criticism. I got one move I like to call "I don't know what the hell I am doing, but check me out!"-swirl kick.

[@russtuff]

@IpodsNightmare this lathe will do 2500, but I rarely go over 720. 2500 scares the hell out me, but John loves the speed :)

[@agentgates]

Hi russtuff, Couple of suggestions to your video mate: First of all always use professionally sharpened blade and keep it sharp. Use lubricant and as others suggested below you need to adjust the speed and feed to optimal work with the actual material also for keeping the temperature low. It will also increases the lifetime of your blade. For aluminium at that length I would suggest centering it with your tailstock, otherwise it will decenter, bend and wobble. As for health and safety it is highly recommended using gloves and eye or full-face protection. For those readers with a long hair proper hair and head protection as well. If it catches your hair you can get scalped (and killed) in a second.

[@billgator2005]

interesting to see. grt8 videos.have been considering the craftex cx700 lathe(BUSYBEE,canada, brother owned company). i see the carbides are as cheap as the craftex CHINESE carbides. the ridges in the finish seem to indicate loose spindle bearings, saddle to ways looseness, or some other looseness. my first craftex lathe produced the same finish. it took me several months of shimming, adjusting, etc. to resolve the issues. the surface finish is the lathe and not the mat'l or your competence.

[@trialnterror]

You might think they easily rip but if it grabs up by your wrist it could pull your whole hand into the machine!

[@russtuff]

I understand your meaning and haven't considered you as a troll :)

[@theragincajun827]

Take .005 to .01 depth cut on a finish with a .005 to .01 feed and spin the hell out of it!

[@NotSoDumb]

HSS bits, coolant, only have the stickout needed and align the cutting face of the insert flush.

[@didikbudianto9393]

hewan kawin

[@ch408w1]

If you can grind your parting tool at an angle with the right side leading it will leave the peice thats removed smooth without the point on it.... I saw that on Tublecain's videos....you should check him out on here !!

[@Travisfromoregon]

Try using some cutting fluid like dark sulfur, for the steel, and some aluma tap for the aluminum work well when trying to part. Gotta get the heat transferred to those chips not the cutter.

[@russtuff]

I appreciate your concern :)