065 - Review - Graham Farish Class 08

[@ThisWayWorksTWW]

Hi Ian, thank you for the shout out that was lovely👍, mine was just the same with regards to the weathered wheels that needed to be cleaned up. Along with this 08 there are other shall we say problematic shunting locos from Farish. The 03, 04 and the 14 all have very soft and not springy pickups. Its easy enough to tweek them back into shape with some tweezers but i find if you pick these locos up and squish the wheels sideways the pickups tend to move away from the backs of the wheels which always gives me not ideal running. Ive found the older Farish pickups on the likes of the poole models were of much better quality and spring out much better.. i think nowadays they use a less quality type of material for the pickups. Fantastic review 👍 Rich

[@iansngauge]

Good morning Rich! You're very welcome! I've only got the 03 out of the other shunters you mention, but so far, touch wood, that has performed perfectly! Yes, I'd noticed that too - moving the wheels sideways seems to move them away from their pickups! I've also used a pair of tweezers to "bend" the pickups of the 08, and its ran much better since doing that! I think it's just bad pickup design, and am sure there must be better ways of doing it! All the best, Ian.

[@Elvenhome]

The 08 is a popular locomotive and I was very tempted by the early crest BR green. But then I looked at my two little Jinty shunters and I couldn't do it to them. I would be like the arrival of Buzz Lightyear at the start of Toy Story. As for sound, I think the net difference in price is less than £100. It is true that the difference in the RRP between sound fitted and non-sound fitted (which is actually just no decoder fitted because the speaker is already there) is £100. On Rails site however it is about £80. But the non-sound doesn't have a DCC chip fitted either. That will set you back somewhere between £20 to £35 depending on make (hard to gauge at the moment as old stock is at old prices and newer decoder prices have increased markedly). So the added net cost is somewhere between £45 to £60 base on Rails prices. That is still more money of course and it is a judgment whether you want to spend it on getting sound, or more stock, or scenic materials etc. One thing a model railway certainly does, if allowed to, is soak up money. Stephen

[@iansngauge]

Hi Stephen! Haha! Those little Jinty's are rather adorable! Even at £45 extra, I think for what's involved - basically an mp3 player chip with some logic to synchronize the sounds it plays with DCC commands - it's still expensive! I agree, this hobby has a way of making chunks of money disappear quite rapidly, and rather too regularly for my liking! Oh well! All the best, Ian.

[@wimbletrain]

Hi Ian, good to see the 08 running reliably. I've watched many of the videos over at TWW YT channel, lots of interesting stuff. Hopefully one day I will add a stayalive to my old 08 which I modified for DCC as it keeps stalling no matter what I do. Almost just chucked it in the bin! All the best John

[@iansngauge]

Hi John! It's definitely a relief having such an expensive loco finally performing as intended! Yes, I love Rich's channel as it's full of interesting content, with lots of ideas, how-to's, hints and tips! Just wish I had the skill level to copy him! Lol! I look forward to your video of adding the stay alive - or of you lobbing the 08 into the bin! Lol! All the best, Ian.

[@quarryjunction-1969]

Great review Ian thanks for sharing, this would be perfect for my new layout Im building. I agree the prices I seen are far to high but thats common now within the hobby. This is now on my to get list. My first video of my new build being uploaded within next few days so will defo be looking at all your videos for tips and advice. Cheers mate

[@iansngauge]

Thanks Jason! Yeah, prices have gone silly ever since Covid struck, and don't seem to have reduced now everything is back to normal! I'm just a beginner in N gauge, progressing rather slowly, and documenting my build in a warts and all manner! Hopefully you'll find some decent information, and at the very least the videos will keep you entertained! All the best, Ian.

[@phillipg1588]

This loco is absolutely on my shortlist. And after watching previous reviews it definitely needs a Stay Alive fitted AND the first thing I'll be doing is replacing those damn awful Rapido couplings for some more proto looking knuckle couplings.

[@iansngauge]

Hi Phillip! It really is a fantastic little loco - when its running! I've had to send mine away recently after a problem with the pickups resurfaced and was beyond my skill level to fix! I also enquired about fitting a stay-alive but the sound decoder chip doesn't support the required connections, and replacing it with a new chip was cost prohibitive! So if you get one, make sure that the decoder chip has connections for fitting a stay-alive! Hope this helps! All the best, Ian.

[@colinnewmarch1106]

Hi Ian, excellent review, I struggle with small locos, the slightest blemish in the track and the loco plays up. I have a small steam loco,a pannier tank that hesitates at one point on the layout, without fail every time. When every other engine runs fine. It's so annoying. The cost of sound fitted stuff is now becoming silly money . I fully appreciate the work involved in producing these gems, but it's now beyond many peoples pockets

[@iansngauge]

Hi Colin! I've not had problems with any of my small shunters other than this one, and it has obviously been the loco, rather than the track that has been at fault in this case! Larger engines with more pickups over longer distances have the advantage though, and having perfect clean trackwork never hurts! Like I've said previously, my main problem with the cost of sound is that the extra cost doesn't seem to add up to the cost of the electronic components involved! I know there are development costs, but sound isn't a new thing, and I'd have thought prices would have come down considerably by now! Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox! Lol! All the best, Ian.

[@nathanward9865]

Hi Ian! I’m not sure the running problems are due to weathering - I have a non-weathered one, and it’s terrible - the exact same issues you see. I do note that some of the pickups look like they don’t contact all the time, so I think that’s going to be the main solution for me, when I am brave enough to open it up. I have been trying to get the retailer to take it back and replace it with a tested good one, but they haven’t responded to emails in a while. I am in New Zealand and the retailer is in the UK, so, I suspect they don’t care. I’ve since bought several thousand pounds of locos and other bits from an other retailer - Hattons - who are excellent. Speaking with the wallet right!

[@iansngauge]

Hi again Nathan! The overspray was definitely a problem with this particular loco, as it was on the back of the wheels, so even though the pickups were touching the wheel backs, the paint was interfering with the electrical connections! I agree though, I think the pickups are the main problem! They don't seem to be particularly well designed, and seem to drift away from the wheel backs! I've used a pair of tweezers to "bend" mine into place, and the "fix" seems to be working for the moment! Hattons are excellent, and I love their Trunk facility! I've also had good support from Rails of Sheffield! Yep, money definitely talks! All the best, Ian.

[@Wickford_N_Gauge]

Greetings, Shelfington, and hello Ian 👋 I have to agree about sound fitted locomotives 🚂 being hard to justify the extra cost 💰😝 Adding a Hunslet 😇 to a silent 08 is definitely a winner 🏆 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️

[@iansngauge]

Morning Paul and the people of Wickford! I think my main problem with sound is that the extra cost doesn't seem to add up to the cost of the electronic components involved! Maybe during lockdown, when electronic bits and pieces were difficult to source, the price was okay, but at the moment, I think you're paying well over the odds for what you're actually getting, however clever the technology appears to be!!! All the best, Ian.

[@clivengauge]

Hi great review I have been thinking about getting one of those trains but just normal DC runner very informative thank you for sharing 👍

[@iansngauge]

Thanks very much Clive! I'd be interested in knowing whether the weathered versions ran any better when running on DC - if they suffered from the same overspray problems as mine! Glad you got something from the review! All the best, Ian.

[@exehavenharbour]

Hi Ian, really good informative review, it is so annoying paying all that money that things do work right straight out of the box! It looks as though it’s running fine now though, I do need a shunter or three for Exehaven and may very well consider a non sound, non weathered version and shall be looking out for a bargain from somewhere after I have written this. I want to have a go at weathering a loco and this maybe the first, I have watched a few video’s over the past few years with simple techniques so we’ll see how we go. As for ThisWayWorks it’s an excellent channel although Rich makes it look doable I fear my skills may never be up to his!!!! Cheers for now mate, I’m still in the garden nothing done on the layout yet but I’m getting there, John

[@iansngauge]

Good morning John! Thank you! Yes, now it's finally working, it's a great little loco! As you can see from the comments here though, I'm not alone in having problems with them, so choose wisely when you look for one - and wonder why it's being sold if going for a used one!!! Yes, weathering is something I definitely want to try my hand at, but I've got so many other things I need to do that will probably happen in a couple of years time! Lol! Yeah, I love Rich's channel, and he makes things look so easy, when I know they aren't! Thanks again for the tip off about the Pullman coaches - I now have another three for my rake!!! Enjoy the garden! All the best, Ian.

[@nathanward9865]

Have you tried the “cold start” sequence? I think this used to work for me originally, but it doesn’t seem to anymore. It was quite fun, it would take 30s or so to get up and going before it would move. I am suspicious that it may be since changing to a different DCC address.. but could just as easily be the decoder getting funny after so many sudden power losses with the bad running etc. - I don’t remember exactly when it stopped working, and it was put away in a drawer in frustration for a while!

[@iansngauge]

Ah, yes, I love the "cold start" sequence! I actually recorded it for this video, but as it was so long, I decided to leave it out! Maybe a decoder reset will solve the issue? Although that would obviously wipe out any other customised CV settings you'd made! Cheers, Ian.

[@gwrbuckleyjunction1733]

Brilliant update Ian would love to go dcc but can’t justify the price lol ATB Sion

[@iansngauge]

Thanks very much! DCC does have cost implications, but you get so much more from it in terms of train operations! To be honest, as you know, nothing is cheap in this hobby, and there are literally hundreds of things competing for your hard earned cash! All the best, Ian.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Ian. I am not a great fan of weathering, although I am aware of it happening in real life. I bought my own Class 08 several years ago and, alas, is not even DCC-ready. I prefer the Class 08 over the N Gauge Society shunter, but the latest GF offerings are so expensive.

[@iansngauge]

Hi Paul! I'm not completely sold on manufacturers weathering, although I do like the lighter touch that has been applied to the 08 - other than on the wheels of course!! I've watched a few videos of people weathering their own stock with excellent results, and will probably give that a go at some point, as it can add a bit more realism, especially to wagons and locos that would constantly run in filthy environments! I'm pretty sure you can convert the older Poole Farish 08's to DCC, although wouldn't know where to start myself! Yes, as with most things in this hobby, prices seem to be through the roof at the moment! Prices seemed to rise sharply when the pandemic hit, because of component shortages, but they never came back down again once the shortages were over! Oh well! Cheers, Ian.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@iansngauge Yes, if you're going to weather, then go light. I understand that TMC is the master of weathering (unless you wish to DIY). Simon (of Simon's Shed) made a video of a DCC conversion of a Class 08, so I'll probably have a go sometime. Yes, it's rare for prices to fall again!

[@endoorrailway]

Hi Ian, Hopefully your review will help others out there considering whether or not to get one of the many options for the 08 - it certainly gives a good overview :) Personally I really like mine, now that it works well, but you make a good point about if someone is just looking for a shunting loco of some sort - I'd never really considered that approach to choosing! I've got an 08 because I really like the way they look, so I'd never choose the Hunslet over it. In terms of sounds I can't remember if I got my hands on the 08 or the 9F first, but it's the sounds on the 08 that made me realise that's what I'd like on as many diesel locos as possible. As you noted, whether or not you think it's worth the extra 60% (or whatever) in cost is a personal one, but comparing sound-fitted with getting The Model Centre to fit sound, or possibly even with buying the necessary decoder to fit oneself (not that I'd dream of trying that on something this small myself!), I think £216 was a good price. The other thing about a shunting loco is that it'll often be accelerating and decelerating, so you get the associated engine sounds for that more often - I think sound on a shunter gives me more enjoyment than sound on a "big" diesel.

[@iansngauge]

Hi Jonathan! There's definitely a lot of choice if you want an 08 nowadays! Like I say, I'm rather fond of mine too, but in terms of price, technology, running and "just working" value, the Hunslet is a better option in my opinion! Sounds definitely make a big difference on the layout, and I agree, the ones in the 08 are some of the best, especially, like you say, when you get to hear the engine note and brake squeal more often during shunting operations! My objection is based purely on price, as I don't believe £100 is good value for money for the technology involved! I can buy a tablet device for similar money, which is much more technologically advanced than a small speaker and a sound chip with a tiny amount of memory - and includes both of these things! It won't stop me from buying locos with sounds - I've got a Black 5 on pre-order at the moment for instance - I just think we're being ripped off! All the best, Ian.

[@endoorrailway]

@@iansngauge Hi Ian, Some good points there! When I last looked at sound decoders a while ago it seemed to be the chips that were by far the main part of the cost, but like you say, there are plenty of advanced microchips around in the world that are very low-cost. I don't know what labour goes into capturing and processing the sound files, making them such that they can blend into each other at the right time etc, but you'd think those are all one-time-per-prototype overheads. Personally I hope that factory-fitted sound will increase the number of people buying them and bring economies of scale over time.

[@iansngauge]

@@endoorrailway - Hi Jonathan! Yeah, theoretically, the more they sell the cheaper they should become, but with purchase costs so high, I don't see this happening, so it's sort of a chicken and egg situation!! Oh well! Cheers, Ian.

[@raymondmarkesteijn3198]

A great looking loco it is but quality check should be better without a doubt thank you for sharing 🙂

[@iansngauge]

Thanks Raymond! Yes, I think all of the factories need better quality control, especially when costs are so high! All the best, Ian.

[@thegrowler-blackwoodngauge]

Evening Ian - good review! Just wait until you get the build up of fluff and the body has to come off....😅

[@iansngauge]

Morning Euan! Thank you! Haha! That's probably when I'll scrap it! All the best, Ian.

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

very good Ian

[@iansngauge]

Thanks very much Chris! All the best, Ian.

[@Hal-Zuzzu_Model_Railway]

I have 2 of these models, GBRf and Network Rail. I also have a few other older ones which I converted to DCC. All my 08s are fitted with a stay-alive. I ordered my GBRf 08s and Network Rail 08 with a blanking chip and installed a decoder of my choice. For the Network Rail 08, I installed a Zimo sound decoder but am not too pleased with the result. The sound is fine, but when it runs and reaches peak speed, it fades away in the background. which yours does not do, I noticed this in your video. I could wish I could get that sorted but I have no idea where to start.

[@iansngauge]

That's really strange about the sound on your loco! My loco has a Zimo sound decoder fitted, as you saw, and it works great! The problem with mine is the pickups, which have dropped out of alignment below the wheels on a couple of occasions, and are now catching points when the loco travels over them - or doesn't! I've fixed the issue once, but obviously not well enough! I'm considering sending it away to get it fixed properly, and if I do, will get a stay-alive fitted at the same time! However, I wonder if the stay-alive and sound problems are related in your loco? Cheers, Ian.

[@timstrainvideos142]

nice model. factory fitted stay alive and lights would have made it a great model. the ngs hunslet has them, so bachmann should be able to do it!

[@iansngauge]

I completely agree Tim! Especially as the Hunslet is much smaller, and they've managed to cram those things into it! All the best, Ian.

[@timstrainvideos142]

@@iansngauge I have just paid someone to fit a stay alive and a new type of zimo sound decoder in my 08. runs v nicely now over 3way points and double slip...

[@Tractor3Thrasher]

Hi Ian how did you get your loco to run smoothly? Ive just bought one brand sound fitted. I popped it on the track and the running was very poor. After cleaning the wheels and track its made a massive improvement. My other locos where running fine before before i received the 08. Great video

[@iansngauge]

Hi! Did you purchase a weathered one? The main problem with mine was that there was overspray from weathering on the wheels! I cleaned them using isopropyl alcohol! I also had a secondary problem with the some of the pickups not contacting the back of the wheels properly! I made a video about solving these problems - "043 - A Christmas Miracle" - although, unfortunately, the pickup problem has returned! Oh well! Hope you get yours running smoothly! All the best, Ian.

[@Tractor3Thrasher]

@@iansngauge no I was kindly advised by the guy on the phone that the weathered ones were problematic which I wanted. So I opted for a pristine version. It didn't run very well at all until I cleaned the wheels a bit and track. Now it's running a lot better. I'll check out that video you said.

[@ngaugeonashelf4417]

If the factory can't fit the small parts how the hell am I supposed to do it with my eye sight? The one annoying thing about Farish is they don't include a spanner!

[@nathanward9865]

They can, the pipe from the body to the chassis is much smaller than the optional parts! The optional parts impede the n gauge couplers, which are obviously a lot bigger than scale.

[@iansngauge]

Hi Simon! Like Nathan says, the optional parts are intended to make the loco look better, rather than function better, and in order to fit many of them you need to remove the couplers, thus making your loco dysfunctional! Personally, I've never fitted any of the optional parts, but they look fairly easy to fit as all of the locating holes are already present on the buffer beams! I guess a pair of tweezers, a dab of glue and a steady hand are all that's required to fit them - oh, yes, and a decent pair of eyes! Lol! All the best, Ian.

[@iansngauge]

Hi Nathan! I've never fitted any of these optional parts as removing the couplers is required for many of them! Cheers, Ian.

[@kato1306]

Mine runs like a Bag of spanners. Wobbles like mad. Ordered a replacement wheel set and chassis form Bachmann UK.. Wheel set did not come with the bearings. Did not fix it. Just got a Ivatt and same problem. No more graham Farsh for me. There QC sucks Will stick to Kato.

[@iansngauge]

Oh no! That's so disappointing to hear! I'm surprised they didn't offer you a replacement loco! I think the Graham Farish QC department definitely dropped the ball on this particular model, as I've heard lots of complaints about it! Since making this video, the pickup problem has returned on my model, and there are now two pickups losing contact with the wheels! Thankfully, all of my other Farish stock runs very well! All the best, Ian.

[@mikegrant8666]

@@iansngauge What a great video review. How did you get on with the loose pickups that developed?

[@iansngauge]

@@mikegrant8666 - Thanks Mike! I talked about how I solved the problem in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioK0h5iMZqaVnNU Unfortunately, the pickup problem has returned since then, so I'm not sure where to go now! All the best, Ian.