08: Sacrifice - RWBY Volume 2 Soundtrack (By Jeff Williams & Casey Lee Williams)

iTunes: bit.ly/1rUXIDM
Google Play: bit.ly/1pYfJzE
Close your eyes now time for dreams,
Death is never what it seems.
Did the things you thought you should,
All the things they said were good.
All your faith in ancient ways,
Leaves you trapped inside a maze.
Take the lives of those you need,
Sow the death then reap the seed.
Reap the seed.
Born an angel, heaven sent,
Falls from grace are never elegant.
Stars will drop out of the sky,
The moon will sadly watch the roses die.
In vain,
Lost, no gain,
But you're not taking me.
You can't have my life,
I'm not your sacrifice.
You can try, but I'm free,
And you won’t conquer me.
I won't crawl,
Most of all,
I won't fall,
For you.
Show them gods and deities,
Blind and keep the people on their knees.
Pierce the sky, escape your fate.
The more you try the more you'll just breed hate.
And lies,
Truth will rise,
Revealed by mirrored eyes.
What if all the plans you made,
Were not worth the price they paid?
Even with the lives you stole,
Still no closer to your...
Goal.
You can't have my life.
I'm not your sacrifice.
You can try, but I'm free,
And you won't conquer me.
I won't crawl,
Most of all,
I won't fall,
For you.
Source: rwby.wikia.com/...

[@djmanageddemocracy6388]

"Born an Angel heaven sent. Falls from Grace are never elegant." Yup Cinder was a good guy once upon a time.

[@fenrir9340]

or it's talking about Salem

[@sparksbysparkscrowsbycrows589]

+Coocoobura Zing or it could be secretly about Neo.

[@fenrir9340]

+Amanda Sparks yeah could be

[@specter1893]

+Juan Lescano Tell that to Pyhrra

[@o.d.d.5437]

+Amanda Sparks we don't know neos backstory yet

[@Lunacide59]

"The moon will sadly watch the roses die.." Nooo. Please Monty, anybody but Ruby!

[@phucko6952]

Nope...hes killing Rubys family :D

[@Lunacide59]

D:

[@phucko6952]

Arcania Monty will drink our tears in mugs.

[@kittyoverlord96]

Not Ruby! No! Nonononono! I didn't make the connection until I stumbled upon this comment...

[@TheDragonsPit]

The Foreshadow is Pointing at something They won't kill off Ruby she's the main character XD Or maybe they'll do Anime Cliche 245 The Character is Supposed dead but someone magically healed/Brought back to life But it could also Foreshadow Summer maybe Hmm....

[@gxstly]

"Blind the People, keep them on their knees." yet another Volume 3 reference.

[@shadowgotsiz7514]

Cinder's whole plan must be in this song.

[@profjf]

+Shadow gotsiz Just think if it was, I would wonder how they would be able to release this song.

[@Kromgar1337]

+Shadow gotsiz AHahaha not cinders plan

[@gxstly]

Kromgar1337 Yeah it's Salem's plan.

[@lapisleafuli1817]

as well as "all the lives you stole your still no closer to your goal"

[@CordlessJet549]

The songs have more complicated stories than the actual RWBY story. Despite how good it is, the story is really simple.

[@t-rayjones8214]

I keep thinking about religion in this one

[@bigfatcarp93]

CordlessJet549 But I think these songs are actually foreshadowing stuff in the story. RWBY will get complex, it's just biding it's time.

[@CordlessJet549]

bigfatcarp93 Seems pretty standard right now, nothing really complex, just irritating storytelling and slow character development. I mean come on, Blake is developed enough already, leave her alone. I'm bored of her. I was egging Jaune and Pyrrha on in the end because I was bored as hell with their story and wanted something more interesting.

[@t-rayjones8214]

*****​ well Miles said that as team RWBY gets older darker themes will be brought up,similar to Harry Potter

[@nahte123456]

+T-Ray Jones I don't know, Harry Potter was pretty f***ing dark from the get go.As for RWBY, I just want to see how the character grow up in there world, that the show gets darker just means they grow up more and are exposed to more, which is all I care about.

[@gma5607]

The quiet part lingering on Roman is some hardcore unintentional foreshadowing let me tell ya.

[@SirMcFluffyThe22nd]

"What if all the plans you made...we're not worth the price you paid..."

[@gma5607]

+SirMcFluffyThe22nd "They paid" darling "they".

[@SirMcFluffyThe22nd]

+Captain Carthage there goes me typing without thinking, or maybe I just mistyped so badly auto correct wasn't sure what I was saying and did that. Oh well, I kissed up on a YT comment rip me

[@jankleiss2485]

Lie, cheat, steal, and survi- OMNOMNOM

[@XtraThankYou24]

lol well I mean that last chat he had with Ruby pfffffft

[@iamveryloser]

*Blind and keep the people on their knees* This is _obviously_ referencing to the scene in Thor when Loki made all the civilians kneel. Nora was based off of Thor. *Revealed by mirrored eyes* Nora's eyes are blue, a mirror of Ren's outfit. Ren's eyes are pink, a mirror of Nora's outfit. Conclusion: Every song on the rwby soundtrack is about Renora/Ren/Nora.

[@joshmiller2804]

But Ruby-sempai, Ren's outfit is green.

[@iamveryloser]

I've heard it both ways

[@PureHero1]

Haha I don't think so xD

[@iamveryloser]

PureHero1 Uhhhhh no im pretty sure this is right

[@iamveryloser]

Zoë Oblivionkeeper Imma do some research. I'll get back to you on that.

[@qwerty8ful]

i love her voice

[@Arkatox]

Obviously.

[@seroccoprime2774]

+qwerty8ful Perfect singer for RWBY.

[@superstarduck3823]

+Anthony Serocco she's the only person who sings RWBY besides her dad

[@Arkatox]

+superstarduck 3 First of all, you're stating the obvious. Secondly, that's not even entirely true. Sandra Casey and Lamar Hall have both been featured in songs.

[@superstarduck3823]

Arkatox so R u stalking me now

[@marmalade3625]

Truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes. 'Ruby Rose. You have… silver eyes' -Professor Ozpin. Yang meeting Raven in the post credit scene, both with red eyes. Neopolitan's Heterochromia. What does it all mean? Monty really creates some cryptic shit, hey guys?

[@AstralMuffin105]

Yep, Monty is pretty good at the cryptic shit, he hides his foreshadowing well, buried deep within other plots, so you really have to think and look close to find them.

[@VytoneJr]

I think its metaphorical eyes. Mirrored eyes as in someone who sees things the same way, or will see things the same way, or learns the truth as Cinder did

[@dylandarnell3657]

Or possibly mirrored as in "glassy"... as in, dead. See RWBY-Theater's post on the subject.

[@BlueMoon56832]

Eyes are windows to the soul And rubys eyes are reflective Neos eyes change And yang and raven .... .... .. I got nothing

[@rhymenoceros3303]

First time I heard this song I had a feeling it might have been about Cinder, the fact that the official video uses images of her only makes that belief stronger. If true it seems Cinder might have been some kind of hero in the past, possibly a huntress but something happened, presumably a betrayal by her leaders, led to her becoming the villain she is today. Going further it seems she desires some sort of freedom but is willing to sacrifice others to achieve her goals and avoid becoming one herself. Now the part I find most interesting is starting at 2:44 where the song asks her whether what she's done is worth it. This makes me wonder, is someone else aware of Cinders past and is now accusing her or is Cinder herself silently contemplating whether her actions are really justified. All in all, really interesting stuff and it just makes me love the soundtrack more and more. Keep up the good work Jeff.

[@JTruth9419]

Um, WOW... that IS a good thought.

[@RT4Copyright]

"official video" This is purely a fan channel. Don't over think my videos! Songs are about interpretation so I use the screenshots I think are appropriate. Though I did do some research on the RWBY wiki and reddit to make sure my interpretations aren't 100% off from others.

[@heavennunya809]

Random idea I had while listening to this song, what if Cinder is RWBY's aunt or something, and this whole mess is caused by Summer's death? Like maybe there was some shady business around it or something? Course, maybe not here aunt, but maybe just someone who was close to her mother. I mean, a lot of emphasis has been put on summer rose's death, and when they do that in shows there's usually 2 outcomes. Either they come back, possibly never dead in the first place, possibly resurrected, or there was something wrong with the death, something really bad, asides from the death itself. Not to mention, RWBY and Cinder keep running into each other at crucial times, almost like something is pulling them to each other. Maybe they're even sisters, or cousins? *gasp* or clones? no, jk, I doubt they're clones in any meaning of the word...... watch me be half right and half wrong and them be long lost twins or something....... lol

[@Elfandspartan]

***** That's assuming that we or the main characters even know who the side of good is right now. Remember, Cinderella was abused in the original fairy tale be the people who should have been the "good side" in society.

[@somarushinde1704]

Ruby's mom meaby? thas what i tougth at the start

[@XSnowtrooperX]

"pierce the sky, escape your fate" and "revealed by mirrored eyes" interest me the most

[@Gokai_QM]

+ThePhantomAssassin12 is it to much to ask if they meet the reds and blues by accidentally crashing into them?

[@utopian4769]

'Pierce the sky, escape your fate' could be referring to Ozpin's origins and how he's bound to reincarnate until he completes his mission. Or maybe it could be saying how Ozpin is willing to do anything to free himself from his obligations. 'Truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes' is tricky. It could've been foreshadowing on how Oscar forced out Ozpin's secrets in Vol 6, and seeing as how they're melded together, he's intrinsically apart of him, hence, 'mirrored eyes.' They also use his eyes glowing to show when Ozpin has taken over as a visual sign. A second interpretation is that Ruby found out about her Silver Eyes, leading to discovering something Ozpin kept hidden about herself.

[@zinovyrozhestvensky3636]

“Pierce the sky escape your fate”might refer to the gods leaving the worlds (in which they pierced the skies and shattered the moon) mirrored eyes probably refer to rwby

[@spark9189]

@@utopian4769 or it could be ruby asking jinn for the truth

[@axxSaint]

⁠​⁠@@utopian4769 im super late but the “ pierce the sky, escape your fate” thing is ironwood creating the city in the sky due to fear n whatever, and the “truth revealed by mirrored eyes” is probably when ruby asked the truth about oz from the jin, and since she has silver eyes also referred as “mirror eyes” pretty much saying ruby revealed the truth about oz. Crazy how this song hinted alot of things that are even happening in vol 7 and more

[@koekipper3757]

If there's anything I learned about Roosterteeth, is that when they make a show, there is no black and white. At the end of RvB, the Director, through it all, wanted to bring back his love. I think this song explains much about Cinder Fall. Is she on some kind of quest for revenge? And if so, on who? DAMN IT! Stop leaving us in suspense! I wanna know what happens!

[@Arkatox]

We actually don't know who this song is about.

[@SILENTALONS]

It's gonna be a long year to wait for Volume 3.

[@youshouldhaveseen144]

Ozpin said that he has made more mistakes than any man, woman, or child. Many one of his mistakes affected Cinder in a negative way? Only time will tell...

[@CellHead]

Arkatox It's always fun to speculate and see how close you get

[@xiii-Dex]

The funny thing about "black and white", is that Blake and Weiss are probably some of the more gray characters in the show.

[@bobbyreyes6609]

I'm convinced that cinder is the sole survivor of mountain Glenn, watched as everyone she loved was abandoned by the world and now wants payback

[@Iyrsiiea]

+bobby reyes That's.... actually pretty plausible. I mean, if anyone could have known that the Grimm Dragon was inside the mountain, it'd be someone who managed to survive being trapped underground with a bunch of Grimm. Mabye she made some sort of pact with them, which is how she's able to use that bug-Grimm?

[@bobbyreyes6609]

Iyrsiiea I think the group that she works with are Grimm worshippers. We still dont know what or who started the Great War

[@zeroyaldragon4902]

Salem looks part grimm, so that seems pretty good in terms of theories.

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

+Iyrsiiea If we consider the likelihood that the "she" in Cinder's dialogue is Salem, then we can guess that Cinder is merely a servant, and Salem gave Cinder the ability to use artifacts like the Vomiting Beetle Grimm.

[@ForgedinPrint]

+lyrsiiea Not to mention subduing them, if the maidens could do that in the first place there wouldn't be much of an issue with them for the most part.

[@Rosevieenla]

"Do you believe in destiny?"

[@c4flame]

I believe in deathtiny

[@lunasmith9367]

No! I believe in Nora!

[@jaketrollston4866]

+Luna Smith May thy thunder god be appeased by breaking this peasant's legs.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

+Cat ninja Well, I certainly believe in Pyrrha fans and Arkos shippers wanting to murder Cinder as painfully and brutally as possible.

[@caiusballad8544]

+Ninja07Keaton Fuck that. Onto Jaune X Cinder shipping! XD I may have stepped over a line there....

[@satan1149]

"reap the seed" -Team C-MEN

[@jennyfabia393]

LOL

[@vitoc8454]

+wyrm rushton And it still fits with the "color" theme

[@pizzaloversa.1838]

+Vito C ah yes, JNPR is my favourite colour.

[@vitoc8454]

Not to mention CRDL and STRQ

[@zergcann8559]

+Vito C Cardinal as in red, like the bird Stark, as in darkness (Black) Juniper, as in purple / blue, like the berries

[@acoolnameemm]

in Beggining of the End Cinder says "i want to be strong" "i want to be feared" "i want to be powerful"

[@DocPwnall136]

She was probably talking to Salem

[@GeorgeDCowley]

Strong _and_ powerful... ...interesting.

[@randomchannel7224]

VDX being strong and being powerful are 2 different things

[@GeorgeDCowley]

Gold Dragon That's why it's interesting.

[@Firehawk376]

Sleep deprived batshit insane theory go! This is at least partially about Ruby, whose family, specifically the Rose family (not the Xiao Longs), is somehow cursed to die, but Ruby will break that curse. "The moon will sadly watch the Roses die...but you're not taking me." "Pierce the sky escape your fate" Ruby will escape her fate and survive. Also, "Truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes." I'm not 100% sure how that connects with the above, but...mirrored eyes? Mirrors are silver. Silver eyes? Ruby has silver eyes. Truth will be revealed by Ruby?

[@SouthyJr206]

Firehawk376 Another thing could be that if it is Cinder singing it and not Ruby then... could Cinder be a disowned Rose? Although I like you theory better.

[@masterofthelag8414]

Firehawk376 I fail to see why they'd use 'mirrored eyes' AND have the 'you have silver eyes' line from the first episode if she wasn't related in some way. Despite the sleep deprivation you probably are onto something there

[@Firehawk376]

Masterof thelag Sleep deprivation makes me weird, not stupid. Sometimes it actually makes me smarter somehow. Looking back on it, that connection is something obvious that I should have seen before that, but didn't.

[@Sentifray]

She reflects fate, distorted and backwards, showing everything it has to offer. Including the truth Maybe

[@affirmingtoe15]

"The moon will watch the roses die" That lyric makes me a little nervous.

[@mrscs14]

AffirmingToe

[@mrscs14]

AffirmingToe what makes you nevous

[@affirmingtoe15]

Claudine Sterling Before I tell you have you seen Volume 3?

[@MinecraftProdutction]

Welp, there goes Yang.

[@growlithekid]

emi Yang has nothing to do with roses. Ruby does though.

[@CellHead]

Soooooo... who else needs volume 3 NOW?

[@Shamuscon]

Have to wait all the way until August...

[@privategrab355]

Shamuscon if you kinda want a preview on the story Ray and Ryan gave a brief rundown on the plot on the fourth episode of "On the Spot"

[@Ichiban1mikea]

Cell-Head mee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@alaska2966]

Cell-Head MEEEEEEE!!!!!!

[@PureHero1]

privategrab355 Dammit I believed that a little and watched that video xD :3

[@maverickmak]

I'm kinda thinking this is a Raven song now. I could be about her rebelling against Ozpin as she refuses to be sacrificed to battle Salem, like Summer probably was.

[@jackhacker5738]

i agree with this

[@kaleyahhyuga999]

maverickmak91. I couldn’t agree with you more,

[@user-zc4lm9pc7e]

Well this is what everyone including me thinks now

[@keltomjones2485]

maverickmak91 Same here, a year later

[@maverickmak]

I am starting to feel pretty smug about this while watching V5. haha

[@hoodiesticks]

So delightfully creepy.

[@Ayveh]

Agreed

[@WeissXSchnee19]

HoodieSticks Same

[@dylandarnell3657]

"The Moon will sadly watch the roses die" (Looks at cast) Summer Rose: Already dead, or at least MIA Roses => Plural => More than one (Looks at cast again) *MONTY* *MONTY **_NO_*

[@Jun13-8]

This song is so dark, the tone and the lyrics make this great.

[@secretskull21]

Um, I don't know if you noticed, but it said "the moon will sadly watch the roses die" O_o is that foreshadowing your death ruby?

[@EtholasGproductions]

+secretskull21 I'm guessing it has something to do with summer rose

[@Nyoko0tan]

+Nikolas R. It could also represent Adam, seeing as his symbol is wilting roses.

[@EtholasGproductions]

Nyoko0tan Adam? I'm sorry but I've never heard that name in ruby before. please say more

[@Nyoko0tan]

+Nikolas R. Blake's old mentor and current leader of the White Fang, he was first shown in the black trailer. Adam Taurus is currently having his little cult work for Cinder for whatever reason. His emblem is a wilting rose.

[@bigfatcarp93]

Crazy theory: some of the World Leaders of Remnant use human sacrifice to keep the Grimm at bay. Ozpin is aware of this, and allows it for the greater good, though he hates it ("More mistakes then any man, woman or child" etc.). Cinder was a sacrifice who escaped, now she's out for revenge on EVERYONE. Maybe Mercury and Emerald were other would-be sacrifices she rescued.

[@dylandarnell3657]

+Phearo Guille I think you have the right idea. Bonus: "Mirrored eyes" => Silver eyes. The hunter whose death pushed Cinder into villainy -- Summer Rose?

[@proudguardofwhiterun5770]

So a bad-guy is actually a good-guy cliche?

[@dylandarnell3657]

Arrow In Eye No, Cinder is definitely a baddie. I think it's more that the idealism / cynicism gets switched. Cinder is the villain because she was too idealistic -- she couldn't accept the brutal math that Ozpin and company use to keep civilization intact -- while Ozpin and company are the good guys because they come up with and implement the plans that keep humanity from being wiped out -- even if said plans are paid for in human lives, they _work_ and humanity continues to exist. When the bottom line for civilization is "how many people die today", you can get heroes who do some pretty distasteful stuff.

[@edl01reviews]

+Arrow In Eye A bad guy having sympathetic motivations is considered a cliche now? Damn I didn't know writing characters like they were actual people was a bad thing. In all seriousness I agree with the theory that Cinder is an ideologue who believes her actions are merely stopping the corrupt government(likely Ozpin) from turning Hunters and Huntresses into a, "Sacrifice" for their own well being. I also think what sent her down this path was the death of Summer Rose(The moon will sadly watch the Roses die in vain, lost no gain).

[@Ninja07Keaton]

+Ed L But Cinder is only the confidant, Salem is the true villain and seems to bare a huge grudge against Ozpin.

[@Kancerru]

RWBY may have fallen off over the years, but Volumes 1 to 3 are still masterpieces.

[@annimu9081]

Cinder is like the evil flame counterpart of Elsa.

[@Zoberii]

+TwoFaced Barricade I thought Elsa's counterpart is Daenerys

[@kerdunne3422]

+nopenope nopenopenope Yeah but the above person called Cinder Elsa's *evil* counterpart.

[@TheReviewer65]

+TwoFaced Barricade The BETTER evil flame counterpart

[@hylianmontage451]

Cinder-ella

[@septagon4121]

I swear all of Casey Lee Williams' songs are just perfect. I usually stay away from rock, but something about her and the band makes me download these and put them on repeat.

[@darthutopia6978]

As others have said, this song does feel like it could be about Cinder - but Cinder from Volume 4. "What if all the plans you made/Were not worth the price they paid?" "Revealed by mirrored eyes" Cinder might be having second thoughts about Salem - She escaped Beacon badly injured by Ruby's silver eyes - what if this is what it's talking about? Maybe she doesn't think the fall of Beacon was worth the humiliating condition she's in, when her colleagues no longer respect her? I hope Rooster Teeth expand on this.

[@pace3101]

DarthUtopia They'll probably fuck it up.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

DarthUtopia Her colleagues never respected her to begin with. Despite being favored by Salem, her colleagues consider her to be nothing more than an irritation. A necessary irritation to be sure, but an irritation nonetheless. She wanted to be feared and respected by her colleagues, attaining the powers of the Fall maiden to this end only to become weaker than she started. Quite the poetic form of irony.

[@julietadeoto3001]

Well, mirrors are made with Silver, so mirrored eyes is defenitly Ruby. Or Summer if this is Raven talking :/

[@josephbernard5240]

Cinder is actually very vengeful now, she wants to kill Ruby, but momma Salem said "no"

[@bowenorcutt78]

I think it's Raven talking smack about Ozpin. A lot of the lyrics line up with what we've learned about both of them in the past few volumes.

[@SteelFyire]

And now that actual deities and creation myths have entered the story (as of V4, Episode 8), one line in particular "Show them gods and deities, Blind and keep the people on their knees." seems extremely significant.

[@jemdemonbelle2097]

This sounds like a little kid's lullaby. So eerie and delicate.

[@chocolatedomo9847]

"Born an angel haven sent" "Falls from grace our never elegant" Who we talking about? Cinder or Salem? Or Both O.O

[@soarel325]

Cinder.

[@msslamajama2]

*raven*

[@soarel325]

Birdbrain was never "born an angel". She was always bandit scum. She confirms it herself in V5E6.

[@Firehawk376]

Ozpin. The song's about Ozpin. Who's singing it is an open question, but the person they're talking about is Ozpin.

[@MrGksarathy]

Even with Volume 3 done, we still don't know exactly who's POV this song is in.

[@Levleup]

Cinder's

[@pace3101]

Asgore Dreemurr Explain.

[@Levleup]

The song at the end of volume 3 is Salem's, as it uses some of the quotes from her speech. This is Cinder's theme.

[@pace3101]

Asgore Dreemurr Ya. I just read some of the other comments like 3 seconds ago.

[@Levleup]

People Like Grapes sorry. I didn't know.

[@carlzabel8]

"mirrored eyes", yup silver eyes forshadowing

[@robertwilliams204]

This is the first time I heard this song. It kicks an unreal amount of ass. Easily my favorite out of everything I've heard from this group. I feel like the singer poured her soul into this, even more so than some of the their other songs. This gets me so pumped.

[@Kagomai15]

"But, baby, please don't do what I did; I don't want you to waste your live in vain." -->"The moon will sadly watch the roses die. In vain..." "Were we born to fight and die? Sacrificed for one huge lie? -->"I'm not your sacrifice." "There's a day when we'll fight and we're not gonna fall. There's a day when we'll stand and a day when we won't crawl, anymore." -->"I won't crawl. Most of all, I won't fall, for you." There's such a huge, fascinating dissonance in these songs with how they all complement each other. There's so much lurking beneath the words and the history lessons and the subtle foreshadowing from all the professors. I'm in love with this writing, seriously. I love how we get so much of the story even *outside* of the actual show's narrative. The songs, the names, the myths and legends and fairy tales behind characters, Ozpin's lack of a colour-coded name (How old is this guy?? Obviously 80+ years, but Ironwood looks older than him!), the possible underground network that Qrow, Summer, Taiyang, Ozpin and Yang's Mother might have been/be a part of. Basically, I'm really interested to see what's going on behind Cinder and behind Ozpin. Much more than we've been shown yet, clearly. (Probably...most definitely WMG, but I also can't shake the image of The Organisation and its isolated research area, the Island World of Claymore. Breeding and researching gigantic, dangerous human-monsters on an unnamed island in order to create what amounts to an organic WMD in order to win a war in the outside world against even bigger baddies than Yoma and Awakened Beings? Perhaps not in some isolated "unnamed island", since we've seen maps of Remnant, but to mirror the above: studying Dust and Creatures of Grimm and how humans fare against such creatures for an ultimate war against the Grimm? Maybe creatures even more dangerous than the Goliaths? Right. Wiiiild Mass Guessing.)

[@cobaltstar_8281]

Cinder is totally going to get betrayed by Salem and is going to get sacrificed. It's totally foreshadowed in the lyrics.

[@loz9848]

CobaltStar_ I bloody well hope so 😂😂

[@soarel325]

Ozpin is the one that sacrifices people, not Salem

[@revenge3265]

I'm late but yeah. This song also foreshadowed the diety plot line. We will probably get back story about how Cinder was once a hero now turned villain before she finally dies by Salem's hand in the next season.

[@KingsBard]

This song manages to turn me on and scare the living hell outta me at the same time @-@

[@DJProductions1001]

SAME!!! This song is both sexy and scary as fuck

[@MsRuneGirl]

So true

[@DeadmanHopping]

This song is beautiful, but it raises a ton of questions about Cinder as a character. "Did the things you thought you should. All the things they said were good." What things? Who's they? And does this apply to Cinder or someone Çinder is talking to? "Take the lives of those you need." A reference to Torchwick, Emerald and Mercury, or simply a statement along the lines of 'kill anyone who happens to get in the way'? "Born an angel, heaven sent. Falls from grace are never elegant." Ok, so that's a pretty clear indication that Cinder was at one point a good guy. Probably a huntress, given her skill. "Stars will drop out of the sky. The moon will sadly watch the roses die." Hang on, roses? There's Ruby and...Oh, yeah...Ruby's mother. Summer Rose, who is dead. "In vain. Lost, no gain." Here's where it gets really interesting. Red Like Roses part 2 is essentially a conversation between Ruby and her mother, Summer. The second half is sung in Summer's voice and she states "But baby please don't do what I did. I don't want you to waste your life in vain." That would make this the second reference to Summer having died in vain. Were she and Cinder somehow involved? Was Cinder the cause of her death? The fact that the song has a general tone of rebellion against fate and questioning whether it was worth the price paid, I wouldn't be surprised.

[@davemustaine4866]

My theory is that this is salem talking to ospin

[@DeadmanHopping]

+Yoda Master, I am pleased that you took the time to respond to my comment...and learned proper grammar since your death. I do still sort of hope this is mostly in reference to Cinder, rather than Salem, as it would make her slightly more interesting and less one-note than she's been up until now in the show. However, through your knowledge of the force, you raise a good point and it made me think about something regarding Summer Rose. Could it be possible she died somehow fighting Salem or one of her agents, possibly at Ozpin's request, considering the references to her in the song? It would make sense, given that the general sentiment appears to be that Summer died in vain and Salem is clearly still here.

[@soarel325]

Cinder talking to Ozpin

[@Crazyfrod]

This was planned for RWBY Volume 3, Chapter 6. Im calling it. Cinder/Amber.

[@hannahschrenk7981]

Well, I can stop searching for my favorite song from this volume now, 'cause I think I just found it.

[@becca2710]

This is such a killer song. Def in my top 3

[@twikkzy]

"What if all the plans you made, were not worth the price they paid. Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your...goooooaaal." Welp, this is kinda a V5 reference, to Ozpin taking the lives of random people, and using them to his own will. Him doing this to kill Salem, or Cinder isn't working, and all he's doing is stealing more lives, until he can defeat her. Even with the lives you stole could also represent V3, when he took major planning to create Vale's school, but in the end, it came crashing down. (Edit) "Stars will drop out of the sky." "Falls from grace are never elegant." RIP Cinder.

[@soarel325]

Yep

[@shadowdragon0064]

I think the twist should be that Roman was the main villain the whole time.

[@ilyasbasuki3207]

That wouldn't surprise me. I actually believe Roman is an even bigger villain than Cinder, just not the main villain.

[@TLB95Switchblade]

Meh. I think Roman should be an elite unit in this arc. But he should ultimately get away. I imagine his involvement going forwards will be: -> Escapes from prison. Either Neo busts him out during the tournament or he manipulates Penny. -> Returns to action alongside Evil -> Comes face to face with Blake again and Blake takes him down again. -> Blake, because of Roman's psychological victory in No Brakes ("You think a little bow on top is gonna make people forget who you were? What you've done...?" - Pertaining to how Blake has killed before and is regretful, guilt-ridden and ashamed for her actions. " | "We're on the same side and you know it..." - introducing the idea that she's a wolf in sheep's clothing), can't bring herself to kill Roman and he uses that hesitation to escape. -> Roman remains off-screen for a while, possibly with a constant reminder of his existence being Blake searching for him. Maybe Neo will be around though as an added plot push. -> A long way from now Roman returns. He's taken several levels in badass, including discovering his Semblance. Roman is the big bad this time around with Neo his dragon and likely a number of other lackeys. This will be where Yang finally beats Neo. Where Blake finally puts an end to Roman. And will likely see Ruby and Weiss serve as secondary to Blake and Yang much like how Weiss and Yang seem about ready to serve as secondary to Ruby and Blake in this arc (since Cinder and Roman are the antagonists that matter) Added idea: Maybe Roman doesn't disappear from the screen and we get the occasional post credits teaser or short cut scene going into the pasts of Neo and Roman and showing them at present day. A Neo/Roman training sequence opening Volume 4 for instance would be both that shot of adrenaline we need after the break, a nice way to tell that, despite slithering a way in V3's finale he's still out there and important, and introduces the concept that he's both training intensely and aligned with Neo.

[@thelurkingpanda3605]

yo

[@thelurkingpanda3605]

That would actually be cool. You think he kinda sucks and hes in prison, but when you forget about him he busts out with his own agenda and no one can stop him.

[@VytoneJr]

I think Roman is either the main villain this whole time, pulling the strings silently, or working for another (whether as a spy against Cinder, or for some big criminal boss who he's in trouble with or whatever). As for getting captured, I'm very sure it was either part of Cinder's plan so he could infiltrate wherever he's going, or make an army in prison. Or he got captured to escape from Cinder and continue his own plan. Also, I wonder what his semblence is, and why he hasn't used it.

[@Zahlen0]

Wow... That was... vengeful.

[@Cinedhiothu]

Out of the volumes soundtracks, this song remains my #1 favorite. a beautiful and power song. mhmmm

[@randocalzonian4756]

I kind of feel like this song might be partially tying back to Time To Say Goodbye. The line from the song, "Are we born to fight and die? SACRIFICED for one huge lie? Are we heroes keeping peace? Or are we weapons pointed at the enemy so someone else can claim a victory?" This kind of alludes to the fact that maybe the "good guys" aren't telling the heroes everything, similar to the aforementioned Director. Of course, like many people are saying, we don't know who this song is about, or if it is in fact actual RWBY lore.

[@randocalzonian4756]

Also, the overall theme of this song seems to be of someone who once followed a person they saw as the "good guys" and was possibly betrayed. It kind of sounds like Blake, as some people have been speculating, but I still think it's probably about Cinder. I also noticed the words "I won't fall for you" seem to be in the direct opposition to the song "I May Fall", which is basically about if\ I'm going to fall, I'm going to do it fighting alongside my friends. This song seems to be more about someone who isn't willing to die for "mindless heroism". Another thing I noticed was the line "Show them gods and deities, blind and keep the people on their knees" alludes to the fact that even though the kingdoms of Remnant are in a time of "peace", the heroes of the people aren't going to be able to keep them safe from the oncoming storm, something Prof. Ozpin and the rest of the higher-ups seem to know a great deal about. And lets face it, Cinder is most likely not the main villain pulling the strings. If they were the only threat, they would have sent in a massive strike force of Huntsmen to take them out(team RWBY alone with Dr. Oobleck almost took most of the White Fang, along with giant mech suits). There is probably a bigger baddie in the shadows, possibly this "Queen" they mentioned having ""pawns"? Sorry for the rant.

[@KiraDaBeastNY]

When do the good guys ever get told everything in ANY series?

[@randocalzonian4756]

This is true.

[@rowknan9848]

Have a headcanon that Ozpin raised Cinder as a tool/weapon. He still loved her, but still intended to use her for the purpose he raised her for. Cinder did not take it well when she found out.

[@AlexTheDumbBucket]

when she says that "the moon will sadly watch the Roses die" does she mean Ruby's family, or does she mean the plant?

[@InquisitorThomas]

Why not both

[@DakarTwelve]

+Ravin Schunk *Symbolism*

[@9Godslayer]

I always thought it was referring to Ruby watching Phyrra die.

[@elizabethbeck4071]

+Ravin Schunk ruby's family songs in rwby don't do lyrics like that unless it means something

[@GunbladeXBustersword]

probably ruby's lineage? maybe they despise the silver-eyed warriors because they can kill grimm easily so they kill ruby's bloodline including her mother

[@cr1ticalfailure]

I really do think this song is about Cinder. It sounds (very vaguely)kind of similar to her leitmotif as far as the pattern to her musical notes..

[@soarel325]

Exactly

[@DuckyTheGod]

The first time i saw this I thought that it was a song about how cinder killed the other members of her team (one possibly summer rose) and joined the path of "evil"... but now that i think about it.... what if its a song saying that cinder is summer... She was a prodigy and a great huntress until she gained knowledge she shouldnt have... The council of people in charge who i already don't trust from season 2 had her own team try to cut her down. But she fought back.... and her teammates were sacrificed so she changed her name to cinder and fought back against the council in the name of freedom not falling for their ruse of society and knowing that they are really corrupt. She is trying to reveal truth about the people in charge of the RWBY world...

[@Frostbi7e385]

not bad, but I have to say, cinder showed no mercy against ruby. that may be because she knew Glynda was capable and she didn't want to look weak. Although, she did smile when she met ruby in the tower. Maybe that was because she was happy to see her daughter, or because she was happy at the chance of a witness to sow more havoc. Perhaps both, so that i actually a good theory.

[@Firestar1992]

Cinder is too young to be Summer. She's in her early 20s, which is how she manages to pass as a student.

[@xiii-Dex]

Firestar1992 Was that ever actually said? I see it floating around a lot, but the quote from Monty that I remember was "Asians, huh?" conversation. I thought the gist of that comment was that it is a stretch for her to pass at Beacon.

[@Firestar1992]

I'm pretty sure that's what he said during one of the RWBY livestreams this year.

[@DuckyTheGod]

If I recall he said something along the lines of "young enough" because they couldnt really decide on an age where people stop looking young...

[@devinsouders141]

I love that these songs are great with and without vocals.

[@JoshThomas892]

If I had to choose one song to showcase Casey's singing ability, this would absolutely be it. The vocals are insanely strong, especially the sow/reap section around 0:50-1:00.

[@ValenniaYrathil]

Omg this song has so much more meaning after volume 3

[@LeviathanTamer31]

Alright guys I've got a theory. Summer Rose has something MAJOR to do with the moon and possibly it crumbling. Now in nearly every other song having to do with the world ending it often mentions the moon disappearing and in Die it's given some kind of guardian role. Now this song gives me the idea that Summer Rose is the moon because of the lines "The moon will sadly watch the roses die." Now roses are almost always a reference to Ruby. The only person that is missing and would be protective of her (that we know of) is her mother.

[@hallowedfool]

This is possiby my favourite RWBY song. Jeff and Casey honestly do an astounding job on this soundtrack

[@SuaatanaTube]

This song in the beginning just sounds so much like it is Cinder singing to Pyrrha. This song is brutal.

[@m.6327]

Reap the seed. - Salem Born an angel, heaven sent. Falls from grace are never elegant. - Cinder 'Falls' Stars will drop out of the sky. - They lost all hope and guidance. The moon will sadly watch the roses die - Someone watched Ruby or/and Summer died while couldn't do anything to save them. I'm not your sacrifice. You can try, but I'm free, and you won’t conquer me - Cinder to Salem. Pierce the sky, escape your fate. The more you try the more you'll just breed hate. - Cinder or Salem And lies, truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes. - Summer is still alive and reveal them the truth. Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your...Goal. - Cinder to Salem

[@zerothefaceless4888]

+unseen -´ (Fukashi) You DID notice that points about Roses and Mirrored eyes are contradictory? Aside from that this interpretation would seem like Cinder isn't particulary fond of Salem, or her plans for that matter. Yet i haven't seen a single sign of hesitation throught the volumes, and considering that Cinder is doing most of Salem's work i don't really se her as traitor.

[@soarel325]

Cinder to OZPIN*

[@salemwitch1204]

After watching the Episode Fall, this song just got a HELL a lot more ominous 0_o

[@Hapiheartt]

Salem Witch its about ozpin and raven

[@fenrirswolh3]

This song is most definitely Raven to Ospin. There's strong evidence, at this point, given how she outright left his inner circle, and fortold all of his failures. Not to mention, "Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your goal", could mention how Ospin currently ties into the story, and his connection to Salem. It's pretty interesting to look intom

[@soarel325]

Cinder to Ozpin

[@Jarrah213]

at 1:19 "The moon will sadly watch the roses die" which could indicate Summer dying, but in the 2nd song the album 'die' there is a line "shattering the moon and blooding the sky" at 0:49. Now Ruby was young when Summer 'disappeared' as shown in the 2nd volume. So if 'The Moon' who could possibly be Cinder, as the age range could match with Cinder still being a teen and Summer being in her 20's, killed or had something to do with Summer's Demise, and Yang found out, and went to Shatter the moon which 'bloodied the sky.' I'm not sure how accurate this is but I did notice the lyrics might have a double meaning. Another thing worth mentioning is in Red Like Roses Part 2, Summer mentions how she made a sacrifice and forced a sacrifice on you (Ruby) which further leads to connections to this song.

[@123ameeba]

Moon watched roses die IN VAIN, like red like roses 2, "live your life in vain". Also, taiyang/yang is the sun soooo UGH I don't get all this. I just realized the "sacrifice" bit when you said it tho

[@Jarrah213]

123ameeba Another few things to note is at the end of the song "I won't crawl, most of all, I won't fall, for you." is pretty much the 'I may fall' the song just with a more grim tone, perhaps this song is related to a time after (or before in Summers perspective) the 'I may fall' song was 'sung' which could be Ruby's version. Another thing is 'Moon' might be Qrow. Qrow has a Scythe like Ruby's which is named 'Crescent Rose' due to 1. the Crescent shape of the Scythe and 2. the rose aspect about Ruby, so if we use that as the base. The moon is 'Crescent' which could be Qrows family or something like that also in 'Die' the lyrics 'The moon WATCHED safely from above' with moon meaning Qrow watching Yang safely from above sight. It would also explain how the 'Moon will SADLY watch the roses die.' That shows that Qrow (who was on Summers team) watched Summer die sadly before she was killed for some unknown cause. The thing is with this idea that Cinder fits in nowhere in the song though. It could be a song about Ruby finding out what happened to Summer though, if the song was split like Red like Roses, with the 'truth being revealed by MIRRORED ('Mirror, Mirror') eyes' with 'death never being what it seems.' then Ruby deciding that someone (most likely the government) can't have my life and I'm not your sacrifice. 'Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your goal', seems like something Ruby has said to some kind of authority who caused Summer to die. This idea also links into 'Time to say goodbye' as a 'Rogue Ruby' rebelling in some sort of way, perhaps against Ozpin who might be 'turning them into weapons, pointed at the enemy, so someone else can claim a victory.' which further shows how Ruby refuses to be a 'Sacrifice' like her mother. This entire song, if not all the songs might be a clever play on words to tell a story, or it could be me just being too paranoid after studying 10 little roosters… you never know.

[@grandadmiralthrawn92]

CInder Fall and Roman Torchwick are probably my favorite RWBY villains, and favorite villains in general. At RTX 2015, I actually showed Gray Haddock (who plays Roman) a picture of my Minecraft avatar, which is Roman. He was really happy to see it, and even more so when I pointed out that he was holding Roman's weapon, which I got from KelcoK22's RWBYcraft mod :D

[@nope9233]

I think Cinder is a hero. I believe everything she is doing is to create a stronger bounds between the kingdoms. After re-watching RWBY I could not shake the feeling their was always a greater threat waiting. Something was making the grim always push inland. If you listen to this song agin it feels like she is talking not to a human but Something greater then any threat we have seen yet. Just my thoughts.

[@bob63721]

Nope92 I have been speculating that this song is about Summer, but Cinder is the one saying it. Here are my reasons: We have no clue how Summer died, we just know that's dead. (If you take red like roses as anything then it would be that she was trying to help someone) This song talks a lot about sacrifice. "Did the things you thought you should" In Red like roses we hear the second voice say things like ' You weren't the only one that needed me'. We know Summer didn't want to leave Ruby, but she did, because she thought it was right. "All the things they said were good" We could interpret this as people like Ozpin, Glynda etc. So they think it's good to sacrifice yourself? The plot thickens. "All your faith in ancient ways, leaves you trapped inside a maze" We know Summer named Ruby (like Weiss, Blake, velvet) a colour, after the great faunus war, it seems pretty outdated (since there are only a few people who have the coloured names) so perhaps Summer did something in the past, that haunts her and leaves her tapped. "Death is never what it seems" we know Summer is dead, perhaps this is Cinder mourning? These are just some things I'd like to point out, though I think that Cinder is a Grey character. She isn't good nor evil, she just has a complicated past, probably something to do with Ozpin, General Ironwood. We know nothing about the past of RWBY, apart from the war. But we do know that Ozpin said "I have made more mistakes than any man,woman or child on this planet". Foreshadowing, he probably did something on a global scale or wrong a lot of individual people. We know the Queen, isn't Cinder, or is unlikely to be. So yea.

[@nope9233]

I like your theory better

[@bob63721]

Thank you :P though we never know with RT. Perhaps it's two characters we haven't even met. Who knows?

[@bob63721]

Nope92 "Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your goal" If my theory is correct, Summer isn't all rainbows and kittens, crackpot theories anyone?

[@drivorobotnik7725]

Nope92 Maybe... just maybe. could be the emperor of the Grimms. the one who commands all of the grimms and maybe the one who Kill summer Rose.. But who is the emperor of the Grimms is a human or Grimm. i don't no yet

[@bucktoothkittymcgee]

i just realized the last words "You can't have my life. I'm not your sacrifice.You can try, but I'm free,And you won't conquer me. I won't crawl, Most of all, I won't fall, For you." well its shows shes working for someone {salem?} and now regrets what she has done. she wont let salem take over her and its her choice of will not salems pawn

[@normandy3999]

So Monty had a folder tabbed Yue, which means moon in Chinese. maybe the moon mentioned in the songs is referring to Yue, who sounds like a good candidate for Yang's mom. Another thing is, on the topic of Raven, who's to say it's not Qrow's own daughter, or maybe a cousin or aunt in the Branwen/Rose family? Or Raven is just be a temporal mindfuckery of mixed characters from team RWBY.

[@Rosevieenla]

The thought hadn't occurred to me that she could be Qrows daughter and assuming Yang looks like Kaiyang it's very possible

[@Vanitas1312]

because if Raven was Qrow's daughter she shouldn't look like a 'emo' copy paste of Yang and that said 'emo' copy paste would have been named before by the girls since she is a cousin and also said 'emo' copy paste would be at Beacon then.

[@Rosevieenla]

+Vanitas Caelum they wouldn't necessarily have to know if they had a cousin

[@Vanitas1312]

Cat ninja Still, it's not possible to be a cousin because they look too much alike.

[@Rosevieenla]

Vanitas Caelum My brother and cousin look a lot alike I'm not saying for sure she is it's just an interesting theory

[@sterzee8242]

Red like Roses part 2 "I don't want you to waste your life in vain" This is clearly Summer talking to Ruby but in this song it says "The Moon will sadly watch the roses die in vain" I feel like this is talking about Ruby trying to do what her mother couldn't and end up suffering the same fate as well. I don't know from who's point this is being sung from but I feel like it's Cinder talking about either watching Ruby die or killing her. But idk this is just what I thought of when I was listening to both of these songs I could be wrong

[@zerothefaceless4888]

I've been thinking about this song, and while i believe it's targeted at Ozpin i don't think it's from Cinder's perspective. Or Salem's, oranyone from her group from that matter. I think it's Raven. If you think about it Raven dissapeared 16 years ago, but it's still known to Neo who was terrified, which suggests that at least in the past she was opposing Cinder or Salem. The question is: why did she leave? Let's look at this song from this perspective. If Raven found out that Oz may not be who they thought he was and left his conspiracy/brotherhood because she was afraid for her life then the lines "You can't have my life. I'm not your sacrifice. You can try, but I'm free, And you won't conquer me." make perfect sense. Possibly she felt that Oz was using them in his war against Salem and wasn't going to die for him. If you think about it, it's complementary with Divide which said " it was you who ended their lived, bade them to dig their own graves" and "have you no shame signing them up for your war". If you think about it these two songs + "time to say goodbye" later lines seem to be one hell of a foreshadowing that this conflict may not be what it seems to be. Now let's look at the line "The moon will sadly watch the Roses die". While i suspect that Cinder might've been the one who killed Summer right now we have no proof that they ever met, and the line doesn't make much sense from perspective of someone who never knew Summer. Raven however DID know Summer for sure. Taking this line at face value i think that Raven suspected that further work for Oz would probably get Summer killed and tried to convince her to leave it with her, but Summer still stayed. As "Roses" are plural and i certainly Ruby wasn't born before Raven's escape i'd say it's not impossible Summer's mother already _did_ get herself killed working for Oz. Silver Eyes are implied to be hereditary so Granny Rose would've had them as well, and Oz is at least 80 years old since he's not named after color, his little conspiracy might've worked for long time, it wouldn't be weird if Granny Rose worked with them as well. Ozpin's age also works with lines "all your faith in ancient ways leaves you trapped in side a maze." Brotherhood works with some ancient stuff like Maidens and silver-eyed warriors, if Oz is as old as i think he is then he might be the one who gave them knowledge about them. One thing i'm not sure of is what are "mirrored eyes". But this also might make sense in time.

[@skittles854]

+Zero the Faceless Sorry about writing this three weeks after you posted this comment, but I really have to say that this is /exactly/ what I've been thinking! All the lyrics just fit so well! As for "mirrored eyes", well I have a theory about that too. So when you put Raven and Qrow's symbols next to each other, they look like a paired of winged eyes. Their symbols are mirrors of each other, and the winged parts look like what happened with Ruby's silver eyes. Silver = mirror.

[@zerothefaceless4888]

elizabeth falls Pretty observant of you. Haven't noticd these mirrored symbols, but it would make sense.

[@Fe-go2jw]

I agree, It sounds to me that this is from the perspective of some one who knew Summer, and that would probably disqualify Cinder (though the voice style sounds like her), and Salem doesn't seem like she would ever have to tell any one that she won't crawl. Raven has her own way of looking at the world, that Qrow doesn't agree with. Maybe she isn't such a huge fan of Ozpin and co. for what happened to Summer and possibly to other guardians throughout the years. And yes, the later lines of "time to say goodbye", definetely tells us there's something shady going on in the "good guys" club. As for the "mirrored eyes" part, could it perhaps just mean that two people have the same looking eyes? Like Ruby and Summer.

[@Hapiheartt]

Zero the Faceless you are right!!! FiNALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT

[@Skaursgaurd]

"Born an angel, heaven sent," Could imply that Cinder was somebody completely different before the events of RWBY. "Falls from grace are never elegant." Also supports this by saying that she's different now, and the person she is now isn't as full of character as she was in the past. "Stars will drop out of the sky, the moon will sadly watch the roses die," Could also be saying that because she dropped from the place she once was, she will watch as the people who caused it will suffer, and maybe even cause some of the suffering herself. "Show them gods and deities, blind and keep the people on their knees." Could also be saying that Cinder is lying and fooling all the people she has working for her, I.E. the white fang, and possibly Roman and the kids, so that she can do and or cause this suffering.

[@PokeMasterAsh667]

People keep saying that Cinder was talking to Ozpin in this but I don't think she is. In Episode 11 Volume 3 "heroes and monsters" at the end of the episode Cinder says 'she was right about you, such arrogance' which makes me think this is her first time meeting him because of the fact that she agrees With what she was told about him. I don't Know just something I think.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

It's as you say. If Cinder had met Ozpin prior, Ozpin would have recognized her, but he didn't. And it should be obvious at this point who it was Cinder was agreeing with.

[@PokeMasterAsh667]

+Ninja07Keaton Exactly

[@andrew10022]

Who was she agreeing with?

[@Ninja07Keaton]

andrew10022 Salem.

[@SteelFyire]

I'm not sure Cinder and Ozpin haven't met before; though if they did it was presumably with Cinder as one of Ozpin's pupils, unaware of whatever it was that destroyed her faith in the system he runs.

[@amoil6537]

R.I.P. Monty Oum. It's come as devastating shock to us all. Thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family and friends.

[@cyan-sky1188]

It would've been perfect if the song ended right at 3:05, nice, quite, and mysterious ending that just leaves you wondering.

[@user-mu1os7me8s]

"Truth will rise. Revealed by mirrored eyes." For all the people saying that CRWBY strayed from Monty's ideas even though a lot of it was obviously planned from the start

[@guardianflora5640]

Someone told me this interesting theory. What if cinder or Salem lived through the Great War and something happened to them. And they are saying this to Ozpin. Ozpin said he has made more mistakes than any man woman or child. What if he did some less than morally acceptable things during the war?

[@zeroyaldragon4902]

He threw a bunch of kids into a forest full of human hunting animals, I'm pretty sure questioning his actions is normal XD (EDIT): Multiple times.

[@MABfan11]

I think Salem and Ozpin are MUCH, MUCH older than the great war

[@emeraldmorgan6644]

what I want to know is what did Ozpin do to piss off Salem.

[@nogghorn7080]

Probably blue shelled her in Mario Kart

[@epic0417]

This is officially my favourite song that will play in the background of my dreams.

[@stomyn]

After the latest episode, i now can't help but wonder if this is in fact about Raven

[@soarel325]

And with episode 7 out, we know it's Cinder's.

[@kellharris2491]

that moment when it slows down become s reflective then the music coming in again so awesome

[@123ameeba]

I hope this series will get darker faster and please no more romances, triangles, and spotlightling Neptune and Jaune because the writers voice them

[@SuperTroodos]

Romances are good as they add character development and make sense for the characters, but I agree about the love triangles. As for Jaune and Neptune, Jaune is a main character and therefore will be in the spotlight, and Neptune has not been even close to being 'spotlighted', he didn't even get to participate in the finale.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

+123ameeba A year later...and you get your wish in spades.

[@hermannator1]

so far i have a hard time taking cinder seriously as a villain she speaks in the most stereotypicaly evil way that just shouts "im trying to be a dramatic villain" and i hate when charictures are obvious stereotypes i find roman a more interesting and complex villain then she is i know we dont know much about her or her motives yet but she is still my least favorite antagonist in RWBY by a long shot

[@davidbeauchemin1840]

pretty sure cinder will turn out to be a good person.

[@TheWraithOfMooCow]

I agree completely. I actually find Neo to be a better villain than Cinder.

[@MrBonethugs4lyfe]

TheWraithOfMooCow Torchwick as well. That fool got me wondering what's gonna happen next season.

[@OtashiGaming]

Cinder is very stereotypical. I really like Torchwick and Neo tho. I like her whole "I don't talk" thing and his sarcasm is great

[@MrBonethugs4lyfe]

She's not mute, she just doesn't talk to basic bitches aka RWBY girls.

[@sabrinaperez7262]

If this truly is a song about Cinder and what she's feeling, then like all of the songs on RWBY's soundtrack, it'll have a double meaning. At first, I believed this was what fueled Cinder to turn to Salem for power, but as of Volume 4, I now believe this is more of a "You Made Your Bed So Sleep In It" kind of song. You can see Cinder having second thoughts about what she's doing. Not sure what will happen, but it won't be good.

[@josephwilliams5292]

i am not usually one for fan-theories, but there is a surprising amount of evidence in the lyrics pointing to ruby being the one that is singing this song. 1) "sew the death and reap the seams." This is an important line because of the way that it is worded. the term "sowing and reaping" is an agricultural term that involves harvesting the crops that you planted, and this process is almost always done with none other than a scythe. they could have very well have said "sew the death and *break* the seams, but they didn't, instead choosing the word "reap" as in "reaper," again, giving strong imagery of a scythe and, by proxy, ruby herself. 2) "the moon will finally watch the roses die." The moon is only whole at one point in this entire series; the red trailer, which begins with Ruby standing over her mother's grave. then again, this could also be implying ruby's death. 3)"Truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes." if you were to ask someone what color a mirror is, and told them that they couldn't say anything like "clear" or "transparent," then they would most likely say silver. there is one character in this show with silver eyes. you guessed it, its ruby. 4) "Im not your sacrifice." this could be interpreted as a reference to Red like roses part II. one set of the lyrics is as follows: "I didn't have a choice, I did what i had to do. I made a sacrifice, but forced a bigger sacrifice on you. I know you lived a nightmare, i caused you so much pain, but darling please don't do what i did..." I'm not quite sure what the lyrics say after that until it goes back to "red like roses," but I'm sure you get my point. Ruby doesn't want to be a sacrifice like her mother was, because it was the last thing she ever told her not to do. Now before you say that this song doesn't at all reflect Ruby's character, no one would have guessed that Red like roses part 2 was about her if it weren't for the title. despite her being the main character, we know more about pretty much everyone else than we do about her. the deepest glimpse we have into her inner thoughts is when she asks ozpin if he made a mistake by making her the leader. other than that, the songs are pretty much all we have to go by in terms of character development for her. a lot of that may have just been me grasping at straws, but there isn't much evidence of it being about cinder other than the general tone of the song. feel free to correct me, i hate being wrong about things.

[@hylianmontage451]

"Death is never what it seems" Pyrrah isn't Dead guys!!!!

[@solomonfrogge8597]

+Hylian Montage I think it means it's sort of relaxing to fade into the abyss, slowly fading as you begin to depart, everything goes quiet and you have nothing to fear...

[@grimmxlaw]

RT said that those who died in s3 are dead for good. No Pyrrha, No Penny and no Roman.

[@hylianmontage451]

GrimmLaw The Charmcaster Please don't tell me that you believe what they tell you at face value? Working on something like this it makes sense to lie about certain things to keep suspense. Also the original comments was a joke

[@_goodmeasure]

My god this was MY song when the volume 2 album was released. Prob my fave off this album.

[@autisonm]

This is extremely relevant to V6. Like holy shit!

[@jbark678]

The foreshadowing was impossibly strong

[@asherridge2949]

ooh i got shivers listening to this song all of the sudden

Plot twist: Cinder is saying this to Salem. She'll betray her at the end if she gains more power because she wants everything to herself.

[@soarel325]

She's saying it to Ozpin. Look at the lyrical parallels with Divide.

Soarel This wasn't meant to take seriously.

[@soarel325]

Really? A lot of comments have theories dumber than yours and are meant seriously.

Soarel Nah this just came to my mind and I commented it as a joke.

[@soarel325]

Should make it clear with a "/s" or something

[@CryptidTea]

I just found a possible connection one of the lines is "Truth will rise, revealed by mirrored eyes" just a theory but what if that has to do with ruby's silver eyes? It was brought up at the begging of the series and we never heard about it again. I'm pretty sure that's foreshadowing something between ruby and cinder.

[@Jmeon4eva]

What if......the "bad guys" like Cinder...are actually the good guys, and were just seeing the "good side" through the eyes of RWBY and JNPR, two teams caught up in it all.

[@Que5oFre5co]

"There is no good, there is no bad. Just perspective and opinion" -Squall Leonhart

[@soarel325]

Exactly!

[@BlueGhostofSeaside]

The intro music reminded me of "Thread" by Flyleaf. Wow! This is Casey's best vocal performance ever!! Excellent work, girl!! This song is excellent!

[@michelebeck9398]

*Spoiler* It's not really a spoiler but I'm protecting my ass here. If you haven't caught up proceed with caution. . . . Am I the only one who thinks Cinder may not be as evil as we are led to believe? Maybe she's actually trying to do something good? Of course she's probably going about it the wrong way but it's possible. Maybe she was trying to do good & eventually saw she needed to do some bad things to finish what she started & slowly got more & more twisted. She did say something about starting a revolution to Adam. She could have said something else but she used the world REVOLUTION. With all of the songs & episodes I've watched I think that Cinder is trying to expose the truth about something. I mean the hunstman organization DID say they hid the exsistence of the maidens (with good intentions of course). Maybe Cinder doesn't see it that way or there's a huge secret about Grimm or the reason they are training hunstman or something. That's just my take but that makes it much more interesting I think. & thinking about why would Yang's mom just leave her? I think she may know something is up too. . . .

[@fahholliday5374]

+Michele Beck no matter how "good" her goal is she's still relying on releasing a horde of evil, suffering-loving monsters on the general populace

[@michelebeck9398]

+FAH Holliday You make a painfully good point there. Even if she has a 'good' endgame (which is quite debatable) she's willing to sacrifice countless people for it. On a rather random note, it's odd that no one died in the small-scale invasion caused by the train. That wasn't her doing of course, but it's strange that Rooster decided to shy away from casualties.

[@fahholliday5374]

Michele Beck Probably don't want to show too many on screen, animating monsters AND falling corpses is a workload :P I asume the greater scale incursions will have casualties mentioned, at the very least. With her parasite Grimm she used to drain Amber, I have a feeling she's tied to the Grimm in general, much like Raven. I have a feeling the figure she's working for is the archetypal wicked witch or evil queen you find in so many fairytales, befitting of the Grimm. The mysterious narrator might be this figure.

[@michelebeck9398]

+FAH Holliday I didn't even think of the workload, that's a good point. They still could've had casualties though, maybe an off screen mention or something. They only released the warning about the dark content fairly recently & that maybe another reason the past invasion was clean. As far as Cinder being connected with Grimm, I dont particularly think the same thing. It would be awesome if that was the case, but I think the parasite Grimm glove was just a device that she used because it's was effective. Other people might be able to use something similar. I personally don't take Cinder as the kind of person that would take orders. Although in 'Beginning of the End' she clearly said "I wish to take on an apprentice" & if she was in charge she wouldn't need to inform anyone. If she takes orders it's gotta be from some one she's fairly close to or trusts a lot.

[@fahholliday5374]

Michele Beck Beginning of the end clearly had her talking with somebody. Considering how she said "ours" instead of "yours" it indicates there is a close bond between the two, meaning "taking orders" probably wasn't the best choice on our part. I still think that it might be the narrator, considering the Narrator's morbid outlook and how she's seemingly at odds with Ozpin.

[@LegolasGhirahim]

"What if all the plans you made, Were not worth the price they paid? Even with the lives you stole, Still no closer to your... Goal." These writers and their damn foreshadowing. Totally goes with Episode 11 of Volume 4...

[@PokeMasterAsh667]

How so

[@julietadeoto3001]

Cinder? having the Fall Maiden power is worth the price she paid?

[@LeoMorikoTheKnight]

This song just reminds me how painful Season 3 is to watch

[@pclone5019]

You know, I never thought about this until just now, but what if this song is partially about Pyrrha? "I won't crawl, most of all, I won't fall for you." Key words "won't fall." Cinder certainly did fall, both morally, and literally in the sense that she became the fall maiden. So the question remains: why say that she wouldn't? Pyrrha is the only answer I can think of. The "Born and angel, heaven sent" line fits too, paying a heavy price for the best laid plans which fail anyway certainly fits her too. Perhaps there's far more to the lyrical makeup here then meets the eye. Either that, or I'm severely overthinking it.

[@pclone5019]

Spoilers, but WOW THE SECOND VERSE IS JUST VOLUMES 7-8 IN A NUTSHELL, HUH? Is this song actually adressed to Ironwood? Sacrifice is certainly his style, but is this Cinder talking to him? Or Winter? Or perhaps even Watts? Hard to say, but there's alot here regardless.

[@MasakatoTarino]

I think someone is still behind Cinder to be sure and I just can't shake the feeling that it's General Ironwood... It was an awfully convenient set of circumstances to relieve Ozpin of his authority...

[@Ninja07Keaton]

+MasakatoTarino Well, you were half correct.

[@chocolatedomo9847]

SPOILERS Its the Arch enemy of Ozpin named Salem Or as I call her "The Divider

[@michaelstreving8451]

lol I guess u were somewhat correct

[@mrhappysadass]

What I get from this is that Cinder was once a 'pawn' in whatever evil plan Salem has, but having realised that she was just being used, defected and formed her own faction. The first verse seems eerily like it may be Cinder talking to Pyrrha (you know, when THAT thing happened in the Volume 3 finale). ;-;

[@kingsoldier3475]

"Truth will rise revealed by mirrored eyes" Yang and Raven

[@solarisengineering15]

Sends shivers up your spine, doesn't it?

[@Aloemancer]

Does anyone else think that this song is a direct counterpoint/foil to I May Fall? The lyrics and themes are similar, as both are about facing down against death but where I May Fall is ultimately hopeful and about the power of teamwork and friendship this one is... dark. Like, really dark. It's almost like the same song, but from the hero's and villain's perspectives, respectively. Or that this song is a rejection of the sentiments in I May Fall. Another point is that each of them is their respective soundtrack's 8th song... Something to think about.

[@soarel325]

I May Fall is sort of a de facto theme for Ozpin's system, and this song is a takedown of said system from Cinder, so yeah, it fits.

[@matthewmicelli6674]

I liked how a version of this played when her Grimm arm was revealed.

[@pinkjay3]

0:38 If you look into the far middle hard enough, you can see Neo.

[@Skaursgaurd]

pinkjay3 I love how out of everything, that caught your eye, XD fuck the foreshadowing and deep meaning to the song, there's everybody's favorite silent psycho! XD #Objectives

[@Rosevieenla]

Neo is one the stage with Roman?

[@pinkjay3]

Cat ninja next to the paladin

[@Rosevieenla]

I know but what are you talking about in the middle

[@pinkjay3]

a few feet away from the paladin, to your left. Neo is sort of in a shadow

[@FeatherShard]

It's about Roman! I know it's Casey singing, but she's kinda become the voice of RWBY. Meanwhile, if you consider Roman's personality while listening to the lyrics they're a good fit, especially when directed at Cinder. The song seems to describe Cinder, but from an outside perspective and there's not much to suggest that the song ever changes perspective. Meanwhile there isn't anyone else that we've seen that has a relatively close yet adversarial relationship with her. Also, it seems pretty clear that, as the outsider of the group, Roman was always intended to be the fall guy. Yet he's the type that pretty much always has a card to play and won't allow himself to be someone else's patsy. In his last scene he tells Ironwood that he's the mastermind behind the whole thing and I find myself inclined to believe him - he doesn't have the loyalty to lie for the others. He has his own agenda and is using everyone around him to move it forward. If anyone thinks I'm totally off base here feel free to correct me, but it all seems solid to me.

[@jacobstinnett9792]

sow the death and reap the seed reap THE SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

[@RavensDelight]

I always feel like this is a song for Cinder and Roman. A bit of Cinder's past, and Roman's own personal feelings about his boss.