1 MOA Challenge ep1

[@PolenarTactical]

There seems to be a lot of "MOA challenges" lately :D In cooperation with Bloke on the range we made a "1 moa all day long" challenge where we want to show that 1 MOA is actually not that common or easy to achieve. The issue is that a lot of people shoot 3 round groups which is barely better than sheer luck. Some people shoot 5 round groups but you probably know as well as we do that those can sometimes be deceiving. With 10 round grouping we get rid of luck and gain some statistical relevance. To successfully complete this challenge the rifle has to be capable of this accuracy and has to have the correct ammo. Furthermore the shooter has to be on point and has to do all 10 shots without any mistake. Our main goal with this challenge is to start a debate and show people that it's not as easy as some YT comments would like us to believe :)

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

I agree 3 shot groups are really only useful when doing load development (5 shots won't make a bad 3 shot group better). I myself often have a hard time focusing long enough for a good 5 shot group. I consistently have 1/2 moa 5 shots groups that include 1 flyer. Today I managed to shoot a .22" 5 shot group but really had to relax and focus. The intention we have is to show that 5 shot 1 moa groups are not really a hard thing. Wait until you see the groups my son (he is 12) shot on Sunday!!!

[@NorthRiverGuide]

What do you mean by "correct ammo"?

[@PolenarTactical]

@@NorthRiverGuide it has to be quality made ammo that is consistent and has reasonably low deviation in velocity. Furthermore it has to be the right bullet weight and sometimes even shape to perform best with your barrel twist rate and even your barrel in general (depends on the length, chamber cut, throat errosion,...) For example my Schmeisser rifle that was able to print 1 MOA with 69gn HPBT ammo will do an over 3 MOA grouping with the 55gn FMJ ammo from the same manufacturer in identical conditions. That's why i think handloaders have the biggest advantage in this challenge - they usually know their rifles and barrels very well and develop handloads specifically for it

[@Firebert79TA]

@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 Please try the 10 shot polarnar/bloke on the range 1 MOA challenge. The single chance at a 10 round group really does emphasize repeatability. The other interesting part is the challenge has rifle weight limit of about 10.5 lbs, though non-compliant rifles are still welcome out of curiosity.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

I might be hard pressed to find a rifle in my collection that would actually make the weight limit....maybe my new budget build. If you have seen the part 1 of the budget build, it is doing batter with the "correct ammo" and I need to make a part two.

[@legalboy71]

I thought this was going to be the Bloke on the Range 1 MOA All Day Long challenge. Obviously it isn't, but it was still interesting and entertaining.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

No we are setting out to prove pretty much everyone can shoot 1 moa or better. It's a fun (should be) easy challenge. Only thing that adds a little challenge is it being cold bore. But some guy named backfire did a similar challenge and all week long claims that no one could do it. The ones he did show had rigs that were several thousands of dollars and shot 3-4 moa.....we call BS on that.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

we did just try the bloke/polenar 10 shot challenge and published it.

[@lmbear]

I agree. "This challenge is too easy". Try 10 shots in a 1 moa target, to make it a little more challenging. I'd personally feel better about taking your money, with that type of challenge. Incase you guys don't know this, that backfire guy is a flaming id10T...

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

I honestly don't know much about him, so I try not to judge. But I find it difficult finding decent firearm related content to watch, so I have checked out some his stuff. I do rather enjoy that guy "winning in the wind". I actually chose to set the bar low, hence the low $ amount. I felt this should be something everyone can do (or at least most). Next we will introduce the 1 moa at 200 along with it.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

Lots of folks calling him out for cherrypicking the worst of the worst for his challenge videos. His poor fundamentals and execution only starts looking ok when compared to them

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

you could be on to something there.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

We now published my attempt at the 10 shot 1 moa bloke/polenar challenge.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

So you'll be cleaning up Blokes challenge then?

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

I've been to the range a few times. 3 to 4 inch groups seem to be what most are capable of.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

I would agree depending what people are shooting. Off the rack AR's with regular range ammo or a savage axis with hunting ammo I would agree. In backfire's video he had folks with very high rigs (several thousand dollars of rifle). those rifles with good ammo I don't believe are capable of groups that large without sandbagging. I posted a video of my son a couple of weeks ago shooting groups for fun. It is a VERY nice rifle with off the shelf match ammo....he is 12 and shoots 1/2" groups.

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

@augerprecisionfirearms3247 good rifles are capable of bad groups though, because people are just shitty shots. Bad rifles are not capable of good groups.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

@@apexpredatoroutdoors8308 I can honestly say the "shitty shots" I have seen with high dollar rigs, shoot 1 1/2" not 4 inches. I can imagine someone with tons of money buying something expensive because it looks fun and having no clue what they are doing....but I have never seen that.

[@rustynut1967]

I think the point of the Backfire challenge was the typical hunter taking their gun out of the safe after 2, 3 or 6 months, banging around in the truck and a different temp and density than the last time it was fired. I have a couple of sub MOA rifles, but hitting a 1" target cold bore after it sat for a month would be pure luck for one of them and a little better than 50/50 for the other.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

That wasn't what he set out to do though. His first video said average hunting rifle, then by the second attempt there really weren't any rules any more. At the second video people were shooting high end rifles with "4 inch groups". That was the part others and myself are calling BS. I don't care how like it sits in a case or a safe, the groups shouldn't be hard. That is also why for our little challenge it's two parts. The first being 5 shots cold bore IN the 1" target. The second part just being able to shoot a decent group. I believe most people can shoot 1 moa or better and that shooting 1 moa is really a realistic bar. I recently picked up a couple more "inexpensive hunting rifles" to try out Bloke On The Range's 1 moa challenge. We did his challenge with a rifle but it broke his rules but about a pound with the larger scope. Since I didn't have anything light enough, I found something and hopefully can get it out to the range soon.....but not in this 97 degree heat today.

[@Magsz]

You’re a victim of your own level of experience. You’ve lost perspective. The average American gun owner fires a box of 9mm ammo a year through their pistol. I haven’t the foggiest idea how many rifle rounds they will fire. Probably equivalent to their handgun if they even own a rifle. You’re sitting there with a custom rifle, custom ammo and high end components. Plus, you’ve clearly developed an understanding of how these components work and how to apply the fundamentals with said components to get your desired result. You are so far from average it’s absurd.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

The rifle may be better than average but I would say I am just avg. I think the point you may be missing is that a guy named backfire did a video challenging people to shoot 1 moa. Pretty much all the folks that tried (with high dollar rigs mind you) supposedly shot 3"-4" groups. We are calling BS on people shooting that badly. As evidenced by my good friend shooting a 1.4" group with an off the rack plain rifle and pain ammo. With a little bit of practice and some match ammo I am sure he could do it. Your comment is prompting me to shoot my plain off the rack Remington 700 in .308 next time with just off the shelf ammo.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

Also of note, we aren't talking about the avg person (some of which have never fired a gun). We are talking about the avg guy who maybe shoots once a month. I am lucky if I get to shoot once a month. I know pretty much all the people I know shoot almost every weekend. This Sunday we were able to go to the range for 1 hour. My son got to shoot about 30 rds. But I did not have time to shoot.

[@annahonorata990]

Could you explain precisely what the rules are? 5 shots at both 100m and 200m? Any weight limits? position?

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

Very simple. We put a 1" target at 100 yards. If they can out all 5 shots in the 1" target they get 50 bucks and a custom poker chip. If they can do it they are allowed to shoot at the 2" at 200 yards for another 50. If they don't put all 5 shots in the 1" target but it is still a 1 moa group or better, they still win a chip. We set the bar pretty low. Planning on more people doing it, but getting time at the range is the hardest part with the retail store.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

no limits or caliber, weight or positions. Our whole point of our challenge is to show most people can shoot 1 moa and that it isn't really a big deal. Heck if you saw the video of my 12 yr old son he just shot some groups UNDER half moa. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmLNqnZ-aruWmNU

[@annahonorata990]

@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGjEoWigZ7N_jKc

[@dhooter]

I’m on your website right now. I live in a reasonable distance from you across the river. Can you help me find a good gunsmith/ machinist that can thread barrels?

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

We thread most barrels. Feel free to give us a call at the shop during business hours and we will be happy to help if it is something we can do.

[@dhooter]

@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 Hell Yeah. 👍

[@dhooter]

Lol not a little sandbagging there was a lot. I can’t shoot moa at 100 all day long with my factory .270 Remington 700 Mountain rifle with Hornady SST hand loads. So all those guys shooting those terrible groups just didn’t make sense.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

We agree. I can see someone shooting just over an inch but not 3"-4" with high end gear.

[@Catgat37]

​@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 dude, I for real see people with high end gear shooting 2-3 moa in lead sleds.

[@davidreed6779]

Yeah well I think he was talking about hunting rifles not target rifles

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

First, I am not trying to duplicate what he has done, I am only setting out to show that shooting 1 moa is not a big deal and can be done by most with lots of different rifles. Second, In his first video he stated that, by the second one he was having people shoot ANYTHING and they were supposedly shooting 3"-4" groups with very expensive, heavy, high end rifles. That was what we don't believe was true. 1.5" from a 500 dollar savage with off the shelf ammo sure.

[@tompanek7511]

Your probably over the weight limit. Check into the BACKFIRE rules. Get a hunting rig not a precision rifle. Even I have rigs similar to yours and of course get pretty much the same results. Grab a hunting rifle and try it. Good luck

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

I appreciate your comment and actually went back and looked. He did mention "hunting rifles", but in both videos we didn't see anywhere where he specified weight and if you check out the rifles everyone is shooting, they are all all heavier rifles. I think I saw two Bergara rifles that with scopes are well over 10 pounds. Also we are not trying to copy his challenge. Those folks shooting his challenge (one fellow shot a 4" group with a Bergara......) that kind of stuff leads us to believe there is some sandbagging going on as we don't believe the avg person shoots that poorly. Conversations about this on snipers hide led to the whole idea of the challenge. It sounds to us like you are proposing an entirely different challenge, which I encourage you to set forth for people to try. Sounds like that could be fun as well. Here we are all about having fun.

[@tompanek7511]

@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 In my opinion and most hunters opinion The gun needs to be - Minute of Deer.

[@RetiredRadioChaser]

I can shoot a 4 inch group. If I try! 😁

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

But are you having fun? That is the most important thing.

[@RetiredRadioChaser]

@@augerprecisionfirearms3247 Yes I am. I can have as much enjoyment shooting 10 rounds, then packing up to go as the guy at the next bench had shooting 100 rounds. Many people I have told cannot understand it, but for me, shooting is a form of meditation. I feel better for days sometimes after shooting a few rounds.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

That is how I feel sometimes about reloading. I truly find peace and enjoy it.

[@tompanek7511]

ALL guns have to be under 10 pounds!

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

Lucky for us it is our challenge. We are not having any silly rules. Anyone can shoot anything they want in any caliber. All we are doing is having fun and setting out to show that shooting 1 moa isn't really that big of a deal.

[@augerprecisionfirearms3247]

You may be thinking of Bloke on the range and Polenar Tactical's rules they set out for their ten shot 1 moa challenge. We tried that challenge with a different rifle. Their rules are 10.5 pounds. The lightest rifle I have in my personal collection is 11lbs (including glass, mount and bipod. Without those things is just at 10 pounds. That gun is NOT a precision rig but old parts slapped together.