$10,500 battery RUINED!!!

I love these videos that are raw and you are just talking. Interesting topic, thanks!

[@3D_foos]

forgot to mention you could save the pack by replacing that 1 module for about $250-$300 and a few hours labor and got another 5 years at least.

[@jehugarcia]

yes but its not worth the time or the money when I have wayyyy better battery now

[@philiplynch89]

Happened to me too. Driving 12 years on old lap batteries. Had to store for a year and half....instruments drained batteries. O volts and two cells were reversed, showing negative voltage. Slowly brought back pack...even reversed cells. Now two and a half years later....one cell would only give me 5 miles...took it out of circuit. The other is now only giving me about 25 miles. Gonna replace the two damaged cells. Half the stuff I do people tell me it cannot be done. Life4po is the way to go. I told that to Tesla 10 years ago.....now it is the "New best chemistry "I have fun with this stuff

[@Levi-k6p]

Do you mean you can revive completely dead lithium cells??

[@MasterCommandCEO]

Been watching your videos for years and every time I learn something new! Never stop making videos!

[@johumm455]

After about 5 years i just reconnected some salvaged Mitsubishi Outlander module again and it had not dropped a 0,5 volt ever since ! ev batteries are cool!!

[@Hejavra]

Noting that you didn't use a BMS originally, did you have regen into the battery? If so I imagine your protection was just the fusing, in which case what kind of max C rate did you allow for and how did you choose size & type of fuse? Thanks

[@vincentrobinette1507]

In that you've bought 3 replacement cars for that battery, you have to admit, it has served you well! PUT A BMS IN IT!!! It is good to hear about the results of running without BMS, and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. Every cell has a different self-discharge rate, even if the cells have consecutive serial numbers. That drift is a "calendar" thing, and has little to do with charge/discharge cycles, or even depth of discharge. Good voltage balancing would split the difference. You Don't want balancing during discharge, regenerative braking, or even bulk charging. The only time you want it, is during absorption/float charging. That will address the 3 differences that appear between multiple cells. Differences in internal resistance, differences in capacity, and, most importantly, differences in self-discharge rates. The latter is the only thing you want to compensate for, using voltage balancing.

[@zenzen9131]

I'd love to drive one of those old buses as an EV :) I've watched your Samba saga for years and I'm still totally jealous :)

[@georgepelton5645]

Thanks Jehu for the update. I remember when you added the Tesla modules to your bus years ago. Looking forward for video(s) about your replacement battery.

[@drunk_astronomy]

My brother had a split window microbus like that. Incredibly intelligent to turn one into an EV. No need for power steering, has old school brakes, basic platform. I approve!

[@myfastcars]

Can you replace the damaged module and make the whole pack good again? If not why?

[@SwordFighterPKN]

The EV conversion of the VW bus is super cool, best part is you made the VW bus reliable.

[@MrSteewped]

That's a task in itself

[@caffeineTX]

You mean the reliable and easy to maintain aircooled motor that it came with?

[@SwordFighterPKN]

@@caffeineTX reliable? I've known a few VW bus owners and none would say the engine was reliable

[@MrSteewped]

@@caffeineTX clearly you are young and don't remember when they were on the road. They were junk then and still are. VW still isn't known for reliable cars.

[@dylanevans5644]

@@caffeineTX Lol... I can only assume you have never owned a VW Bus. The engines are anything but reliable.

[@andremartel828]

I know a guy that has multiple VW bone yards in NH and ME. He rebuilds them. I had shown him years ago what you were doing to these VW bases. His response. Sacrilege. 😅

[@tims8603]

Those old buses were under powered. Couldn't make it up some hills. An EV conversion is a wise way to make them usable and fun to drive.

[@yayinternets]

And they can easily be improved over time as EV DIY tech gets better.

[@EthosAtheos]

The thing that bothers me about the failure you experienced is because of poor design of the battery pack It is unfix-able. Now that isn't a trait of batteries or EVs but it is a design flaw they all have. There is no reason why a pack can't be designed to have groups or even better cells replaced. Not a single EV on the market to day is designed with an easily reparable battery. Some are easier than others to fix. Tesla makes their battery packs disposable and shame on them for it. Ford's EV truck is a nightmare to access the pack. EV manufacturers need to be required to do better.

[@greg925911]

How many miles on those batteries

[@shuttlepilot_]

I so enjoyed the electric samba project videos back in the day. I will still watch them today occasionally when I’m feeling nostalgic.

[@ianhaylock7409]

Yeah, that's why I subscribed. Hardly visit the channel now that it's just advertising for new batteries he has. Must say Jehu is looking old these days.

[@MiguelAlejandro1969]

I still remember the big yellow batteries that Samba had the first time and that you sold them still with useful life. I hope the new ones give new life to WV. Always live the image of the starry sky and the WV at night while camping while watching the stars go by. A hug from Uruguay 🇺🇾.

[@mathewcoatesmc3engineering895]

I had these modules in a conversion too. Ive had 2 modules have cell groups die. Ive been quite disappointed in these batteries because i did not get a lot of miles from them when it happened. The Most expensive mistake of my life was buying these modules……

[@SirHackaL0t.]

What did you do with the dead cells? How were they recycled?

[@TomLentz]

I always equate the huge battery cost claims to an engine/trans replacement. If you went down to the dealer and asked for them to put in a factory new drivetrain (engine, trans, and fuel system) you'd get a similarly high quote. Most people find other ways--remanufactured or used engines and private shops, which is exactly where EV batteries are getting to.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

One big difference is batteries do have a finite chemical lifespan. Were are engine or trans can be rebuilt to almost like new. So batteries will never get to that level.

[@TomLentz]

@@SwordFighterPKN I agree with you there. You can essentially pickle a combustion engine indefinitely. I've often wondered what the auto collector hobby will look like in another 40 years. Imagine someone trying to restore an early Tesla roadster or a Fisker. You can't just have a machine shop make you a battery like they could for some '39 ford part.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

@@TomLentz my understanding is the Tesla roadster people are screwed. Batteries have gone bad and nothing in the required form factor is being made. No good to have disposable cars

[@DrairoOrtiz]

@jehugarcia which BMS you recommend for that 15s battery? Have the same battery without BMS.

[@ericklein5097]

JBD is the go to standard nowadays. Daly has gone to shit

[@moestrei]

JK BMS they are active balancers

[@johneric98]

Do you think that the GM Ultium type battery will be easier to troubleshoot and repair/replace individual modules?

[@tschuuuls486]

It's just a marketing name. They are still pouch cells or lfp cells packaged into a module. Nothing super exiting.

[@toddharshbarger8616]

Jehu! You are such a smart guy! You understand this stuff at such a high level and at the same time you communicate in such a simple way that anyone can understand! Great video!

[@DigitalIP]

Any idea how much you guys spend on average on charging vehicles? Assuming on grid power, not solar etc.

[@jehugarcia]

About $10 per charge on this one

[@tschuuuls486]

You can easily calculate that: (electrical rate per kWh in dollars) x (capacity of pack) x (1,1 (charing losses)). This is the cost for a full charge.

[@DigitalIP]

@@jehugarcia Hmm.. doesnt seem too bad i suppose.

[@sebastianjakubzik2807]

what overall milage did you had with these?

[@jehugarcia]

Hard to tell, my odometer has either not worked or been off since I run smaller tires than it’s calibrated for. So I’d say 100k-150k

[@leedlbo9949]

I picked up a used e-bike With a bad battery Problem was It was left uncharged For a year or 2And 1 group of cells dropped below the BMS So it's safely cut the pk off I simply rebalance that pk Put it back together and eventually change out the BMS A better quality 1 with A better quality 1 with a Bluetooth Been working fine ever since But I have been nervous about my larger batteries I've built And now put BMS units That have Bluetooth On all of them It's worth The peace of mind Now we know the temperature In case of thermal runaway And the balance of the battery itself

[@BrazzaB1]

What probably happend is that that module was the lowest voltage and when it fully discharged, started to be back fed by the rest of the pack. This would kill the module. It is also unfortunate that Tesla is going the way of sealing the whole battery so you cannot reuse them 🤨

[@szajsjem]

You can make a small hole on the positive side to release the pressure and make the batteries work again.

[@szajsjem]

But i wouldn't suggest it, even if the hole is glued back.

[@neiliewheeliebin]

LOL I spot welded a hole in a cell once so i soldered the hole back up & kept using it, lasted a few months

[@dalekkiller]

Will you be trying out the solid state batteries that are going to be coming out in a few years?

[@terrancevangemert7508]

Does the new battery at 5,000 come with BMS???? I bet they do and can the BMS go in series.. Some can not.. only parallel

[@jehugarcia]

Yeah I been running those packs in 3s in the bus as a test for couple years, zero issues

[@electronicartis]

Jehugarcia what are you going to do with those battery that you took out from the vehicle that has bad string.

[@jehugarcia]

Recycle them probably, not really worth saving them as there are so many better options now

[@crzy11000]

@@jehugarcia why not use them in DIY a power wall? Do you not do that anymore it has been a while since watching any of you videos. You need to make a vintage 911 EV or similar to drive. Maybe a Karman Ghia? I like your silver highlights makes you look distinguished by the way.

[@electronicartis]

@@jehugarcia hi before you recycle them can you link me up with it.

[@jehugarcia]

@crzy11000 the labor involved in fixing the damage is not worth the battery, now that there are many better, easier choices available

[@electronicartis]

@@jehugarcia I'm not going to repair it I'm going to salvage the cells them to make battery for e-bikes if you could do it check me the cost to get it to my location in Miami I'll pay for it.

[@terrya6486]

Good to see you back.

[@mr.boniato6402]

How often will those batteries will need to be replaced? Don't batteries last 8-10 years before they start to go bad?

[@jehugarcia]

I’m replacing 15year old batteries. Did you watch the video?

[@Patriot513]

What charger is that?

[@ivar5433]

You can buy 40ish kWh of VDA355 batteries direct from China for way less than $5k. Please do it right this time around and use a BMS and maybe cooling as well? The conversion world has changed a lot since 2014…

[@veden3383]

good cooling is key

[@86OEd]

Thanks for sharing!

[@ToumalRakesh]

Still cheaper than most automatic transmissions. I'm always bewildered when people point out that batteries are expensive, but completely ignore that ticking timebomb in their ICE vehicles that's designed to have a limited service life and likely means the car is no longer economic to fix when it breaks. But for some weird reason we're cool with that, while... "wHaT iF tHe BaTtErY bReAkS"

[@yayinternets]

So many manufacturers are using "lifetime fluid" in transmissions these days, even Toyota and Lexus. So then normies don't change it out, and subsequently a lot of these transmissions die on their 2nd-3rd owner.

[@kevinmills5293]

Exactly. A BMW M5 engine replacement will set you back $50k.

[@BrianMartin2007]

You can rebuild a trans on your bench for a few hundred bucks.

[@kevinmills5293]

@@BrianMartin2007 and you can repair a battery for about the same amount.

[@roodick85]

My friend had a Hyundai that needed at new engine...12k! Lol gas caught up in no time 😅

[@danmortimer8608]

If you parallel another pack to cell group 5 you can push in electricity when a charger refuses. It works I have done it many times now but I think in the end when the cell is saved it is still not a great cell.

[@raymondseeger4832]

What do you do with the old modules? It seems like 80-90% of the cells in the module are still good; I realize you don’t do it yourself, but do other companies pull the cells, test/refurbish, then create new modules? What about recycling the actual lithium?

[@fauxque5057]

Yes. My girlfriends Prius had a bad battery. They wanted $18,000. Found a shop in West Palm Beach that replaced the bad cells for $1500. Only bad part is we live 200 miles from WPB. We paid a wrecker to take it down there

[@sburges12]

What has happened to Fun for Louis’s van? Will he fix his van?

[@jehugarcia]

Seems one of his Tesla battery packs died open circuit also

[@Justretired755]

Saludos Jehu desde Puerto Rico!!!

[@reedadamp]

Did I count four VW buses in your shop?

[@virt1one]

why not just replace the bad module if the others are still good?

[@truetech4158]

Wow those cells sure have alot of space separating them.

[@Electronzap]

Nice project. No battery is made to be ignored for long periods of time. Even a good BMS is no replacement for consistent preventative maintenance.

[@j-sonS]

Is it better to use 7000 small batteries vs making one giant battery?

[@golfish8589]

You play with these batteries all day long and you dont stick a volt meter on any of the cells in group 5 ? ? ? All the other groups had similar or identical voltages

[@jehugarcia]

I checked, its dead

[@golfish8589]

Every single cell is dead? I dont think so. Your own testing showed all the modules but one. Having very simular voltages. Did you check every single cell in the bad module? Even if just one cell in a series module goes bad. You will get no voltage reading

[@Shmade2018]

Yes finally a battery video

[@iindium49]

It's Not a used car. It's a custom car. There's a difference. If the motors are good you might as well upgrade the batteries. I'm still hopeful to see a flexible solar paint job. You know what I'm trying to say .

[@michaelbedard7859]

Loved them before look forward to the new ones.

[@Beeeeeeeeeee]

Sigh, everyone recharging 0V cells. Damn fire hazard. Jehu knows about the dangers, dendrite formation creating heat and IR rise, yet does it anyways.

[@TheSorters]

Recent research suggests dendrites are caused by mechanical stress due to thermal cycling

[@tscotom]

With all the Lithium Ion 18650 etc., that you've been through, "Thermal Runaway" has never been a problem with all your stock through all these years ? Any special precautions you done to mitigate this potential fire problem ? Cheers.

[@jehugarcia]

We’ve had a couple of small packs catch fire, we use a thermal camera when we are testing packs and anything that heats up on slow charging we recycle

[@gtccold]

K, this is something you need to address. One of the cheapest double AA battery you can buy now is from Amazon Basic. It's 100 units for 26 dollars. That's roughly 26 cents per battery. If you look up how much it cost to buy one battery in 1990 you would find that it's around 30 cents per unit. That's without taking inflation into consideration. The inflation rate from 1990 to today(2024) 100%. Meaning if you bought something in 1990s money, you would have to pay 200 dollars in today money. So that's 60 cents per unit in today's money while current battery, which is no the cheapest, is sitting at 43% less of what you had to pay back then. Why is this important? As more companies try to compete, more batteries will be available in the market. Meaning, price war is bound to drive the price of electric batteries. It's good for consumers. But that's not all the equation. That's part of it, monopoly has a lot to do with this as well. We have to watch out for one big company having monopoly on batteries, we don't want that. We want competitions. WE actually do want amazon to compete with tesla third party batteries, what ever the fuck that is lol. And in the long term it will benefit us, and hopefully we don't have to deal with one company controlling the pricing. That's just my two cents, GL everybody.

[@1Shignog]

Well you are comparing cheap crap amazon battery's that don't last all that long and putting them up against battery's that would outlast any amazon battery. Sorry logic is flawed as soon as you tried to use cheap crap then compare it to battery's that would run gameboys and and sega game gear. There is no way an amazon basic rebranded battery would last half as long.

[@gtccold]

@@1Shignog that sounds like a video in itself, i would actually like how know how well it preforms vs brand name battery.

[@MrPrplhaze1]

Batteries are dropping in price so much now. Brand new batteries are cheaper than used ones. :o

[@mackelby1]

How many miles a year sir? You hadnt touched this for over a year according to you. Sounds like lots of money for not many miles.

[@mondotv4216]

I'm sorry Jehu but no BMS is crazy and a huge risk. A BMS doesn't just prevent cell drift, it controls the maximum and minimum charge at individual cell level and overall pack voltage, the maximum current etc - those things are important safety considerations. I know you know this, so why are you so blase about it? If you're continually overcharging 15 groups in the series because the 16th group is at 0V then you're risking a catastrophic event - a fire. Yes, a cheap BMS is just as dangerous which is why you should only use a quality BMS.

[@jehugarcia]

And yet I ran my rig for 10 years without issue

[@mondotv4216]

@@jehugarcia Yes but that was just luck. It could also have gone up in flames on the first day. It is just crazy to be even discussing dangerous practices in 2024.

[@jehugarcia]

Your type has been calling me crazy for 10 years. 500 smart packs went into diy EVs Without a BMS I can’t recall a single fire. You say it’s a huge risk I say it wasn’t that risky if you know what you are doing. 10 years later here I am no fire and it’s all luck, believe what you will.

[@mondotv4216]

@@jehugarcia Is there anything I said in my first post that isn't true? I mean apart from the crazy part which we'll just have to agree to disagree. So if technically that is correct and you know it, why are we even discussing this? Because when the failure rate of these cells might be 1 in 100,000, 500 packs is just luck. Same as winning the lottery.

[@CustomBuild-z4y]

Why not just replace the bad cells?

[@moestrei]

Acutally you kinda f'd them up. They would be probably fine otherwise.

[@jehugarcia]

That’s what she said

[@RechargeableLithium]

I was in the group 'back in frontier days' calling for mandatory BMS use. I'm glad you got 15 years of use from the pack, but mourn the pack's murder. A simple $20 cell level low-voltage disconnect could have saved the battery.

[@leedlbo9949]

Oh,Wow , man its been a wile I've seen you on your videos, what's that white stuff in your hair ? You used to just be kid in your parents house having a ball experimenting with batteries now your starting to look like us old guys 😄

[@aday1637]

This is a story about a bus that gets busted

[@leetaves9143]

15 years with out a bms is pretty good

[@5nowChain5]

override the CiDs in that bank ?

[@graemezimmer604]

Yes, you should at least strip down that group and find what is wrong. Most likely the Current Interrupt Device (CID) has gone open.

[@Beeeeeeeeeee]

Why? Seriously is it some ind of kink with these people to override safeties? Maybe also put some nails instead of the fuse while you're at it.

[@erykfromm]

Tell it taxi drivers, how durable the batteries are. Hint: they are not, if you use them to make some substantial daily millage.

[@jehugarcia]

Yeah pretty sure they also go thru engines like nascar drivers

[@abid583ind]

Man my man...... I hadn't seen your videos since covid and you there seem to have aged quite fast...... All the silver on the top...... Phew... So fast

[@MiguelSilvaFX]

What happened to your hair Jeju Garcia?

[@valerigeorgiev5615]

You have only 1 or 2 battery day!

[@igonzolv]

how many times you have to repeat the same story about the battery just to make the video longer?

[@matthiasmuller8191]

Ich hab 44,7% in den letzten 12 Monaten über alles, (50% davon Tagesgeld zu 4%) da hab ich wohl aunahmsweise mal nix falsch gemacht. 😁

[@shinigamilee5915]

I don't understand why we would want an electric vehicle. If l replace the engine it costs 1000 max. I spend 2k in fuel per year and I can fill it on long trips. If I spent 20,000 every to years I would be throwing away thousands of dollars.

[@jehugarcia]

You are crazy, you can’t buy an engine for $1000. And the $10k battery is $5k today, good for at least another 10 years. No gas, no oil, no adjusting valves, more power less maintenance. There’s plenty of compelling reasons to go electric.

[@niktak1114]

Please use a BMS in the new one

[@patbutete1722]

Why change a habit of a lifetime?!😀

[@onjofilms]

chit happens.

[@juanmacias5922]

Solid state batteries will be a huge game changer, I believe there are two companies super close to have them be commercially available.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

That unicorn dream has been told for years now, it's always "just around the corner".

[@juanmacias5922]

@@SwordFighterPKN I know what you are saying, the same with Nuclear Fusion, but they have actual battery pouches, and it's two different companies.

[@andrewthomas405]

Two minutes is all this vid needed. I gave up lost the will to live..get to the bloody point

[@Thumper68]

A 10k engine would run for 5 decades though…

[@therealromanian]

The engine is like the electric motor. The battery is like the fuel tank. Fuel tanks last a loooong time and they're cheap!

[@moestrei]

My EV is 10 years old and has done 400.000km. All good.

[@Thumper68]

@@therealromanian but it’s not the battery has to be refilled just like the fuel tank just more often way slower and not widely available. We can’t even power our grid efficiently now there’s absolutely no way we can support wide spread electric vehicle adoption. Furthermore when the electric motor goes bad it’s bad it can’t be limped home or easily repaired on the side of the road. I can almost rebuild my entire engine on the side of the road with tools I have or have parts break and it still run and get me home. I can also rebuild my engine for couple hundred bucks and be good for another 5 decades instead of 10k which is way more then it would cost me to start with 3k builds me the engine the first time.

[@Thumper68]

@@moestrei the engine in my car is 56 years old and has had a 300 dollar rebuild on it and is still running… so In 46 more years will your vehicle still be going for 300 more dollars? We both know the answer.

[@TomLentz]

I'm sure there's one somewhere but I haven't seen a 1974 car running on the original unrebuilt motor in decades.

[@jeffnsav1]

Hit the like

[@GapRecordingsNamibia]

So...Why did the BMS not cut the power drain when the pack started to run down? Also, why did the BMS not go into hibernation when the power was drained......? Then again, lets not just blame the BMS, you not doing any maintenance, is probably the cause of those batteries dying....

[@1Shignog]

Pretty sure he said it did not have a bms in it at all. And if you watched the video at all he said he did kill them.