10 Biggest Doctor Who Retcons

[@etherraichu]

I really liked how Donna had just by sheer coincidence never managed to be in any place where aliens happened to be, and so honestly had no idea they existed.

[@eternallylearning2811]

Or more then likely that was the TARDISes doing eh I actually remembered her faname for ounce Idruses doing she would not want that to weigh more on the Dr

[@obiwankenobi687]

I’d love to know why her head hasn’t blown up in the many years since she was left back on earth in 2010

[@brendandowse]

It’s implied the 9th doctor in Rose is freshly regenerated (checking out his ears). That doesn’t cheapen his character. The time war is still recent in his mind, and shapes his character. He doesn’t know gallifrey was saved (Doesn’t remember DOTD), so still thinks he destroyed it.

[@sampenney545]

Yeah that what I thought when he checked himself and if you think of him freshed regeneration from war explains why seems so hopefully yet cynical

[@Jackgames-vg7cw]

The 9th dr was based like 10 minutes after the time war Chris was meant to be in the 50th but he won't come back so Jon was added

[@dalejandromp4963]

When Rose investigated The Doctor in the first episode we saw that his ninth incarnation existed for much more, being in pictures, drawings and legends. So, it’s really weird that then the 9th Doctor was impressed by his ears.

[@sampenney545]

@@dalejandromp4963 yeah but that could be future 9th doctor as we say with David Tennant stuff happens out of order like the blink episode or the stuff with queen Elizabeth as seen in Shakespeare episode

[@jamesgreen9480]

@@dalejandromp4963 my theory is when he leaves briefly at the end of the episode before coming back and telling Rose it's also a time machine, he goes and does all the things Clive and others have evidence of him doing.

[@PureDarkness13579]

In "Day of the Doctor" it was stated that the Doctor's past incarnations would not remember that they saved Galifrey and that the War, 9th, and 10th Doctors would still believe that they destroyed Galifrey and the Timelords. Only the 11th Doctor and future incarnation know that they actually saved Galifrey.

[@BradleyS95]

4:26 The Reapers aren't there to seal up the wound/put time back on track, they're basically bacteria taking advantage of the wound in time and aim to make it worse by devouring everything living. I see it as the Reapers don't always have to appear if there's a paradox, but they always could.

[@hermiona1147]

They also actually appear in Wedding of the River Song.

[@twitchascension]

"Police can't help you now. No one can. Nothing in this universe can harm those things. Time's been damaged and they've come to sterilise the wound. By consuming everything inside." - The Doctor, Father's Day I think that's where they got the idea, though obviously shortly before he talks about how they're there to take advantage, like bacteria. Sometimes the Doctor's not exactly clear, and is a bit contradictory of himself...

[@qorso]

@@hermiona1147 wait really? when?

[@hermiona1147]

@@qorso obv I dont remember the exact minute... But they briefly appear in the montage when the world is shown to be in complete chaos.

[@astra3310]

I also think they’re plane of existence is so removed from our own it takes a severe temporal disturbance to weaken the barriers enough for them to slip through. It took Rose making a double paradox, both saving her dad and erasing her own recent past, in one quick action that let the Reapers enter

[@lewimillionzYT]

Wish theyd use the reapers more however I fear that theyd be ruined the more they turn up. Kinda like the weeping Angel's

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@gruffyddwilliams7633]

I think they show up in the comics

[@matygoo1644]

If they bring them back there's an easy fix as to why they haven't been around, just make them like Vashta Nerada. They're not in all shadows, but any shadow. Except with Time

[@jaschul]

Yeah they'd get very boring very quickly. I don't mind them being forgotten.

[@jaimerachelle2636]

I liked the colourful Daleks, so much that I got a pink dalek tattooed on my thigh 😂

[@jaimerachelle2636]

Stevean2 in ur dreams

[@snownights5700]

I also liked them colourful~~~ It would be intriguing to see lots of colourful darleks, it would be like a rainbow but a pain to set up 😂

[@robertmcghintheorca49]

That's awesome.

[@BlueGangsta1958]

I found it pretty weird to draw attention to the silly design of the Daleks in such a fashion. The original ones at least had the steam punk element going for them, the colours seemed really put of place for their characterisation, paper thin though it may be. Like, what would motivate them to go out of their way to have different colours to show the role or rank of any particular Dalek? They have the hive mind thing (pathweb?) to identify each other and it's not as though they are known for collaborative efforts with other species who might be confused. All in all, it felt like they were donning a group costume as M&Ms for Halloween to me.

[@lapelcelery42]

@@BlueGangsta1958 Higher ranked Daleks have always been denoted by changes in colour scheme, and from the games that were released at the time, the intention seems to have been that all of the new Daleks would be red, with only the elite individuals in other colours. Think the red and black Daleks in the Cushing film, or the black topped ones in Invasion Earth and others of that era.

[@icarusmachines]

i think it makes sense that Dhawan's Master is just post Simm, he seems like a perfect middle ground between Simm and Gomez

[@replimatreviews]

Sure, if we ignore everything shown in the series 10 finale.

[@icarusmachines]

@@replimatreviews how so?

[@replimatreviews]

@@icarusmachines It's explicit in that episode that Simm becomes Missy because Missy shoots him. It says so in dialogue.

[@replimatreviews]

Literally, that's the entire point of them meeting.

[@icarusmachines]

@@replimatreviews you could be right, haven't seen that episode in a while, but i do not believe dhawan comes after missy, he's probably a much older iteration. but i still disagree with the character coming back in the first place even if i don't disagree with the continuity

[@jvblhc]

A retcon here, a retcon there, I don't really mind. But when you retcon fifty-plus years of a show in one episode, you lose me.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@andrewquick4176]

ABSOLUTELY

[@redhood7650]

YA HEAR THAT CHUBNALL

[@Pedigru]

Well...for this idea of yours to stand, could you please write up a guide on the various incremental degrees to a retcon you would accept? I would argue, in the real world, a retcon is a retcon...it doesn't have degrees of validity to it. Let's not think of it as the American justice system...oh god plz no.

[@redhood7650]

@@Pedigru one where the doctor is left as the timelord who went rogue

[@waz207]

Ya know, just thought of something. In the theater intro to the 50th anniversary episode, Matt Smith makes a joke about just seeing the 100th anniversary episode with “all 57 doctors”. Kinda wild that 7 years after he said that, that might just be a true statement.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@julieeverett7442]

well he WAS granted a new cycle so he was up to 24, whats to say he doesnt get another down the line to continue?

[@pheebthedweeb5652]

@@julieeverett7442 have you watched the most recent seasons? the doctor doesn't have a regeneration limit

[@julieeverett7442]

@@pheebthedweeb5652 I have watched the botched abortion that is the 13th doctor and the crapping on all of who history that is the timeless children, doesnt mean I have to acknowledge it though. In my head cannon there are three options 1 12th is still on the blackhole ship being tortured by the master 2 12th had a psychotic break in his TARDIS considering how violent his regeneration was 3 13th has fallen into an alternate universe wher everything is wrong, and the Ruth doctor is a clone of 2nd (as a part of the season 6b theory) NONE of this crap is real who, and never will be!!! And by the way I have watched and listened to, EVERY story of Dr who, going all the way back to An Unearthly Child back in 1963, and the spin offs and BBC audio, so yes I CAN offer an opinion on such things!!!!!!!!!

[@thomasomelie]

I really dislike the Clara part, especially the part with the TARDIS, bc TARDIS herself told doctor she stole him, and now it's Clara who's responsible I liked Clara as a character, I just hated this plot twist, it was so unnecessary to make her the most important woman in his life, oh and then in hellbent he just forgets her completely

[@patrickmccurry1563]

I swear I remember an old episode where it was implied that he could only steal the TARDIS, because it was an obsolete museum model hence poor security.

[@izzyotton7436]

It's a good thing he forgets now we just need all of us to forget and we can happily live like it never happend

[@LucianCorrvinus]

The TARDIS has access to its whole timeline. Clara has now bonded herself to it and the Doctors timeline. So in a sense the TARDIS just got Clara to do the job for it....that way what the TARDIS says remains true.

[@purefoldnz3070]

Clara isnt really a character she's a plot device.

[@pheebthedweeb5652]

especially because the timeless child plot now completely contradicts that scene 😭😭 how did the ruth doctor have a phone box tardis if we've literally seen the first doctor steal it in the first place, an event that happens earlier than the chameleon circuit getting stuck and making it a phone box. worst retcon ever holy moly

[@ethanplayz855]

With the missy point, we don’t know where the new master is in their regeneration timeline. So it may not actually be a retcon

[@ftumschk]

Exactly. The Simm Master told Missy not to bother trying to regenerate, as he'd given her "the full blast". He, on the other hand, had only been stabbed, and we see him escape in a lift en route to his TARDIS, laughing triumphantly as he went. The Dhawan Master could be Simm regenerated, or from any other point in the Master's timeline, in which we know there are many gaps.

[@rolandbaldwin]

I always took him to be from the same point in time as Ruth and a Master before MIssy.

[@roguetwo7949]

In the the new Doctor Who Annual, there’s a section that briefly shows when Sacha’s master fits in. The 13th Doctor: “I quite liked you as Missy. At least she wanted to change, to be a better person.” The Master: “She spent too long in your company, Doctor,” Dhawan’s Master replies. “A mistake I don’t intend to repeat.”

[@MarvelX42]

@@roguetwo7949 Yes, but on screen trumps anything else and we haven't seen anything onscreen yet about it.

[@roguetwo7949]

MarvelX42 And I doubt we ever will. This is Chibnall after all.

[@alessandrac7573]

The timeless children retcon remains the single worst offender as it effed everything up. Totally agree with everything said about it in this video! How could they do that to the doctors character??

[@g.b569]

This needs to be fixed. With Russell T. Davies coming back, I hope he can at least salvage it in some way

[@lunakingsley.7247]

Nevermind the fact that the doctor had way more then thirteen and that the timeless child fixes that issue. nope let's be dumbass babies.

[@robertlane3850]

One thing that bugged me about it. Matt Smiths doctor got a "new cycle" of regenerations... sooooo was that even necessary and it really takes away from the moment that happened

[@fivish]

The Chibnel and Dr Karen episodes are null and void. They were so bad that hardly anyone watched them. Back to normal with RTD and Tennant.

It's a comparatively easy re-retcon anyway. The only people who told the Doctor this were the Master and Tec'Teyun (or however you spell it), both of them rather unreliable narrators with plenty of motivation to manipulate the Doctor. Even if there is a Timeless Child, it makes a lot more sense (especially narratively) for it to be the Master. Not only would it give the Doctor back their agency, but it would also generate much more conflict both internal (is it acceptable for the Doctor to use the regeneration power taken from someone else?) and external (the Master's rage against Gallifrey and the universe in general would be at least semi-justified). And it would explain how the Master keeps coming back even from things that would permakill a normal time lord.

[@Thrawn215]

The "Timeless Children" also retcons the Smith's doctor being given extra regenerations by the timelords in Smith's finale

[@andrewquick4176]

Ben Scott but that contracted “The Moment” (the sentient weapon that ended the Time War) that giving him endless lives. It makes NO sense that the Time Lords can grant endless lives (or that they can just bring back the Master to fight in the Time War)

[@TheWiseCollector]

They could have just lied to him or the timelords didn’t know so nothing changed and it looked like he 2was giving extra

[@ineffablebuttercup]

It also retcons River as a whole. I'm not saying that the original explanation for her being able to regenrate made sense but now there's no explanation at all

[@simonbutterfield4860]

@@andrewquick4176 I get what you're saying but the Timelords did offer The Master a new regeneration cycle in The 5 Doctors.

[@solaris9426]

@@ineffablebuttercup Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Timelords receive their regenerations from the Time Vortex when they're young, anyway? And the explanation for River's Regenerations was that she was conceived inside the TARDIS, one of the biggest repositories of Time Vortex energy in the universe.

[@sh-ig9fm]

You should do 10 times Dr who got continuity right

[@ftumschk]

... best make that 5 times. 10 would be a stretch ;)

[@julieeverett7442]

its most of the time, so that would be a hard one!

[@julieeverett7442]

@@ftumschk nope, you need to watch classic who

[@dasfedoraguy3775]

@@julieeverett7442 Even classic who retcons itself at times.

[@edwardaverilliii1658]

We need to retcon Chibnell! Feed him to the Master, turn him into a Cyberman, SOMETHING!

[@korpus1319]

Haha

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

he needs to be exterminated

[@danwarner7816]

Yeah have him appear in last whittaker episode and do just that. I still think timeless children is from alternate universe called chibnall era

[@NiallMofo]

@@danwarner7816 amen

[@DrWhoFanJ]

Absolutely not! Why can you not just accept that the show is not for you any more, and let those of us who do enjoy it do so in peace‽ 😡😡😡😡

[@therandomgeek85]

The way they just reset the master is as annoying as hell, I loved Missy, and they say oh well it's because of the regeneration but,nope, not falling for that, the doctor is always the doctor no matter how many times he regenerates sure there are slight shifts in his personality but that's just surface stuff underneath it all he's still the same doctor. and any major changes he goes through transfer to the next regeneration, but it apparently works different for the master, right, that makes total sense 🙄

[@BlueGangsta1958]

I mean, it could have worked if they justified it in any way. Finding out the entire backstory of your species is a fucking lie and _also_ your age old frenemy is apparently the chosen one/origin of the species would be enough to severely mess with the mental state of someone who is stable, nevermind the Master. But, as stated in the video, there was a need to acknowledge Missys existence in some form or another. Like, the Doctor appeals to the Masters humanity by pointing out his progress as Missy and theaster either reveals that he hasn't been Missy yet or he says something to the effect of having tried the nice approach and it not working out for him - maybe adding some snide remarks about how it cost the lives of two close friends of the doctor, numerous bystanders and that previous incarnation of her for extra cruelty points. As it stands, it sucked. I found whatshisface dreadfully dull in general, but especially after Gomez' portrayal of Missy. He's yet again reduced to being a cartoon. Yawn.

[@therandomgeek85]

@@BlueGangsta1958 exactly there were so many other ways they could have gone to make it fit, right now it's a joke. And he is sooo boring it's like watching a pantomime villain and I'm getting sick of that tbh. Mind you I don't like the new doctor either so that's not helping things.

[@JoPo4815162342]

Well the actual redemption was set up in The End Of Time, where The Master saved The Doctor. Then Moffat undid it with Missy. The new master it's never been confirmed if he is in fact after Missy. He could be from the past.

[@BlueGangsta1958]

@@therandomgeek85 Anything particular you dislike about Thirteen?

[@sh-ig9fm]

I like to think that he is before Missy but could the doctor being the timeless child suggest that the doctor and master biology is slightly different behaviour transfer over from the previous doctor but master behaviour genetic The time lord race is kinda corrupt this could explain the masters behaviour

[@revdarko1]

The Timeless Children... Well, the ENTIRE Chibnall run... Really has to be viewed as nothing but a fever nightmare.

[@Cumbernumb]

The first doctor is the first doctor. He is the first incarnation to take the name of the doctor.

[@Noxfallen]

Not anymore. Ruth is a Doctor, calls herself a Doctor and calls the Tardis ship. She'd be placed before Willy

[@jamesholmes6506]

@@Noxfallen And I guess next year, we will get a storyline saying that 13 is literally God.

[@claytondavis6835]

The thing is day of the doctor didn’t actually write Retcon anything. The doctor just didn’t remember what happened due to the fact that he always forgets multidoctor episodes. They explicitly call out that they will remember that they destroyed galifrey. So as far as 9 10 and 11(until this episode) we’re concerned they destroyed galafrey to end the time war.

[@thecavalierpanda]

Just found this after posting my comment and this is basically all I could think about while listening to them talking about it ruining the character of the doctor. Either they forgot about the lines where they say they won't remember saving Gallifrey or they didn't watch it properly!

[@SpeedyCheetahCub]

From what I understand, if the Doctor interacts with themself, the oldest version will remember the events after the fact, even what the younger versions did, but the younger versions will all forget until they become the oldest version. So if the 11th and 10th Doctor have a chat and the 10th Doctor mutters something that the 11th Doctor doesn't hear, after the chat is over and they part ways, the 11th Doctor will recall what he muttered as the 10th Doctor now that the occasion has passed, while the 10th Doctor will not recall the interaction at all.

[@KnightElemental]

I still hold put hope that the doctor being the timeless child is just a lie the master came up with to throw her off. And here's why: the master admitted that a lot of what he showed the doctor had been redacted, and that he couldn't get the whole archive. So how did he know the doctor was the timeless child? Nothing that was shown pointed to the doctor at all. So, how did the master know it was the doctor? Unless hes lying. Which, another hole in that episode, the doctor should've questioned the validity of the masters claim. But, yeah, I hope it turns out to be a lie.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@alessandrac7573]

Good point! That is probably the only thing they could say in the new series to redeem themselves. I hope you're right...

[@Laura-rp9rt]

I still think it could be an alternate timeline like they entered and discussed them in that Orphan 55 episode. Also, her origin was not a ret-con. It was never explained in the series where she came from or who her parents were. So this was adding, not altering.

[@rockotarsoldaccount]

@@Laura-rp9rt that's not true, the doctor was shown as a child in the episode listen and he had normal parent's who he lived with, the second doctor also way back in the war games told his origin, saying that he ran away from galifrey because he was bored but unfortunately due to his meddling in time he was seen as an outlaw by the Time Lords, it was simple and effective, we didn't need anything more than that to understand who the doctor is and where he came from

[@lukemarsh25]

@@rockotarsoldaccount but that's for the doctor now and we don't know anything about the doctor before hartnell

[@Monkey92Storm]

they played with the idea that hartnell wasn't the first doctor in the brain of morbius

[@julieeverett7442]

yes and it was never continued, and stated it was Morbius we were seeing not the doctor

[@MichaelM28]

and was pretty much ignored in every subsequent episode basically confirming either those faces were Morbius's faces or the Doctor conjured then up to win the mind battle with Morbius.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@ensor2872]

@@julieeverett7442 Nope, the production team have stated categorically on many occasions that the 8 regenerations we saw prior to the Hartnell Doctor were the Doctor's earlier regenerations, thus effectively making Tom Baker the twelfth Doctor. The whole point of the "Mind Bending" battle was that the Timelord on the losing end of the duel, here Tom Baker, was pushed backwards through his earlier incarnations. Why would we see Morbius' earlier incarnations immediately after the Hartnell Doctor otherwise? Just rewtach the story if you don't understand that, it's made very clear as the duel is about to begin. But yes, it was quickly forgotten about. Especially since the 12 regenerations limit was introduced during the next season.

[@snowyowl2784]

Can we please just pretend the Chibnall era never occured

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@UnfoundFilms]

Id still take his era over series 9 and Hell Bent. As bad as the Timeless Child twist is it at least doesn’t turn the Doctor into a murderer.

[@oneblankspace4919]

like Star Trek : The Animated Series

[@PD-ws4td]

@@UnfoundFilms How was he a murderer? Because he made a guy regenerate?

[@UnfoundFilms]

@@PD-ws4td the Doctor has stated themselves that regeneration is akin to dying. So yes, 12 murdered that timelord’s body and robbed him of a life and they wave it off with a few stupid jokes to try and pretend its not big deal.

[@androstempest]

Modern retcons. The dalek and cyberman history has been retconned many many times before. Genesis of the daleks even altered their entire timeline.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@skyguy675]

I swear nothing hurt me more than the Master's 180. I loved Missy and her arc and to just be undone like that hurts. I don't even mind that he's back. It's like the Joker, I don't care how he escaped, I'm happy to just assume he did. But to have just no acknowledgement, even by the Doctor herself... that just sucks. And even if Dhawan is before Gomez, that still has a load of continuity errors regarding the dynamic between the doctor and master and gellifrey and time travel its just... what where they thinking?

[@mcsmileycorp]

How to count according to new who: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 War 9 10 10 11 12 13

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@brianpetrucelli7584]

Actually, thanks to Chris Chinballs, numbering no longer matters

[@kevindoris4241]

@@brianpetrucelli7584 That is definitely going to be retconned so the numbering will still matter.

[@jannevorrath5439]

@@kevindoris4241 hopefully, I like to believe the master lied. Otherwise doctor who is ruined

[@pink-a-palouza7888]

Well I Count every single form so according to the current version of doctor who lore it’s (The timeless children-dozens) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 war 9 10 R10 11 12 13

[@Cloudrunner62]

If you rewatch “Rose” you’ll note that the 9th looks in a mirror and comments on his face and ears. That was a pretty clear indication that he had just recently regenerated. Before the intro of the War Doctor, it was thought that 8 had been the one to press the button.

[@skyguy675]

Either that there were no mirrors in the Time War

[@Cloudrunner62]

SkyGuy675 I believe it’s stated in either a comic or big finish that the war doctor broke all the mirrors in the tardis so he wouldn’t have to look at himself.

[@uniqueness35fanofimginatio73]

I’ve always found that odd, since we’ve seen old photographs and paintings of the Ninth Doctor, before the events of Rose. This means that during all that time, he never once looked himself in the mirror. Lol

[@Cloudrunner62]

UniqueNess35 Fan of Imgination about 100 years passed between him leaving and coming back after remembering he forgot to tell rose the TARDIS is also a time machine. During which, those were taken. The war doctor states he’s 400 years younger than the 1200 that 11 is. 800. The ninth claims to be 900 in “the end of the world”.

[@terrencekent2108]

I hope they are retconning Timeless Children,because that episode ruined the history of the show and that's dispectful toward the original actors who had played him.

[@alessandrac7573]

100%! The fact that they didn't even think about that says a lot...

[@LucianCorrvinus]

They will have to with all that the retcon affects....because it affects EVERYTHING....

[@traviscollura2440]

7:01 The reason they added the War Doctor in was because Eccleston didn’t want to come back to play the Doctor. McGann was down to show up I believe, but the writers said that they couldn’t really see McGann’s Eighth Doctor being the sort of man that would end the Time War and that Eccleston’s seemed more realistic. So they made an entire new Doctor. Although to be honest before they revealed the War Doctor I always though that it was Eight that ended the war. My reasoning being that when Nine goes into Rose and Jackie’s apartment for the first time he sees himself in the mirror and makes a comment about his ears. As if he’s never seen his face up til that point. So actually putting Nine in as the one who ended the war would’ve been something of a plot hole.

[@BeAGoodDoga]

I will admit that I wasn’t impressed with The Timeless Children... But never mind.

[@nicholasburns7970]

Hold the press. This might still be retconned, we can only hope.

[@lynbaker7780]

Oh please god! I hate all of 13 story but this timeless child ruins the show for me.

[@BeAGoodDoga]

Nicholas Burns we shall see

[@BeAGoodDoga]

lyn baker why do you hate Jodie’s Doctor?

[@cherblairbear]

@@lynbaker7780 I honestly don't think it's Jodie's fault. Because I've seen her done wonderful things, I 100% believe it's Chibnalls and the writers.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

0:28 And I'm pretty sure that the entity from Adam basically works as the living being equivalent to retcons.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@gooseincrocs]

I am so mad that after Davies’ era everyone seemed to forget about aliens like especially in series3 when the master mentions what has happened in the previous years and wilf always believing especially as what has happened in the last few years and then boom everyone has forgotten. That is what was great about Davies’ era everyone linked together

[@jayd2517]

The first Doctor will always be the first Doctor for me because I refuse to count anything Chibs has done as show runner. Also, the first Doctor is the first Doctor anyway because the character only used that name after Ian and Barbra kept calling him that. Before that I'm guessing he/she went by her/his actual name.

[@thoranzalarvhazen4250]

The New Dalek empire thing was a sad missed opportunity because they could have kept both canon by starting some kind of clan war between the bronze daleks and the new slick ones. A Dalek civil war would have been an interesting setting to throw the Doctor into, and even Davros could have made an appearance, just to remark about "survival of the fittest" or some other philosophical observation as his creations rip each other apart in some effort to prove which gene was truly superior. It would have been a bit like Evolution of the Daleks, but on a much larger scale. This would have given us some time to see the new Daleks fleshed out a little, have some interesting scenes, but then we could have had them killed off as the bronze daleks win the war. They're nazis, all you have to do is have them start to believe that actually they're the superior ones, despite the bronze one's attempts to regenerate their species to its roots. There's even potential for some DOUBLE-LAYERED in-fighting there too. Some bronze daleks at first may have been used to fight the other bronze rebel daleks, and there could have been some message about people being brain washed to attack themselves.

[@GameBoothUK]

There has already been mention of a Dalek civil war back in the McCoy era (maybe before but I only recall it from Remembrance). They had the white Imperial Daleks following Davros as the emperor and then the grey Renegade Daleks

[@eternallylearning2811]

That is very cool

[@zstoops1]

At the end of "The Day of the Doctor" they make it VERY clear that because of the way "The Moment" works that only the oldest Doctor remembers not destroying Gallifrey. The other two still go on believing they did destroy it. They even make comments all through the episode about how weird it is Matt Smith's Doctor doesn't remember any of it.

[@reubenmanzo2054]

Actually, it's independent of the Moment. 2 of the same individual puts the timeline out of sync. The younger version can't retain the memories, so the older version doesn't have them. This was established back in 1973.

[@zstoops1]

@@reubenmanzo2054 huh, I always thought it was "the moment" that reset everything. But, you're right I guess they did establish that way back. Thanks.

[@TIME_LORDS]

Glad to finally see someone say the correct number of the doctors with Matt's being the 13th, Capaldi's 14th and Jodie's being the 15th.

[@kingdiamond8875]

TIME_LORDS it sooo mess up but that doctor Who to you

[@POINTL35S]

Wouldn’t Matt still be the 11th Doctor but his regeneration was the 13th? As the war doctor wasn’t regarded as a Doctor and 10’s meta crisis wasn’t a change in Doctor, wouldn’t even class Meta-10 as a Doctor anyway

[@TheHufflepuffSaint]

Well, since the Regeneration slate was reset. Capaldi and Jodie are the 1st and 2nd Doctor of the Second Regeneration Cycle. :-)

[@lewimillionzYT]

Yesssss finally someone else agrees that jodies doctor is the 15th incarnation

[@DaveMan1K]

@@lewimillionzYT No she's actually the 14th incarnation: 1. Hartnell 2. Troughton 3. Pertwee 4. T. Baker 5. Davison 6. C. Baker 7. McCoy 8. McGann 9. Hurt 10. Eccleston 11. Tennant 12. Smith 13. Capaldi 14. Whittaker

[@TwineLightMedia]

Oh and the other disappointing one was the fact that nothing from the previous seasons has been mentioned in the new series with Jodie. The aspect that I love mostly about the Peter Capaldi era was Missy’s Ark and I was disappointed that the master reverted back to his old ways without even an acknowledgement of how he escaped the cyber ship in that amazing series 10 finale

[@replimatreviews]

Yes, because the Master ALWAYS reveals how he escaped dire situations in previous stories.

[@Drp_br_]

I hope Chibnall knows he messed up big time, hopefully he will Retcon it back to normal or else he’ll be hated forever by us?

[@zacherymcdonnell281]

No he won't! He is the best

[@Drp_br_]

Pokemon GO ....... 😂😂

[@Drp_br_]

Pokemon GO Your mad!

[@Drp_br_]

Pokemon GO You know he has messed up big time right? Pls tell me ur joking?

[@SenileOtaku]

He's too arrogant for that. And the Woke Mafia probably *like* his crap version.

[@ssjduelistDD]

Chibnall!! *shakes fist*

[@fandommaniax9179]

Season 12 isn't canon.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@jazzydrawz3792]

If we all ignore it then maybe the future show writers will forget it exists and it'll fade into nothing as if it never happened.

[@nerdfatha]

I can't really get mad about any of this any more. The whole series has been all over the place since its inception. Hell, it was initially a educational drama series and that's been pretty well left by the wayside. a series cant last as long as Doctor who has lasted without some batshit crazy leaps in logic. It's gone on as long as most Soap Operas and those can't stand up to any real scrutiny. Sometimes Doctor who is wacky, sometimes its preachy, sometimes its legitimately scary, and sometimes, the best times, it makes you cry.

[@arthurmartin4616]

Sometimes more than one at once, like how the empty child is scary and sad at the same time.

[@thevampiregirl7529]

Whovian stress-relief: *Throwing Chris Chibnall down the stairs, and putting a weeping angel at the bottom.*

[@bactoidarms2440]

I really hope the chibnall series gets retconned to hell after he gets replaced

[@kylepeters8690]

I have the dream that capaldi will wake up in the snow and say that was a horrible nightmare then wither stay for another season or regenerate and pretend chibnall never happened

[@theswagman1263]

@@kylepeters8690 we can dream :'(

[@SenileOtaku]

@@kylepeters8690 I had an idea of Capaldi's doctor being captured by the proto-Cybermen, and they do a partial conversion to fix his injuries so that they can extract information from his brain. But the Doctor throws a spanner in their whole mind extraction by creating a massive set of bogus memories, AKA the 13th Doctor and the Timeless Child are merely The Doctor's own fabrications.

[@kylepeters8690]

aside from the conversion part that would be a decent way to get around it, though the fact she exists post 12 would probably have them realizing something was wrong

[@DrWhoFanJ]

I hope anyone who agrees with you gets retconned to hell for denying all the myriad benefits and new possibilities that have now arisen. 😡😡😡😡

[@SpaceFluffDW]

I hope I see another top 10 retcon video from you in a few years time and see the timeless child on the number one spot. I hate that story

[@SimonWakefieldUK]

There is no chance Chibnall has anything up his sleeve to make the Timeless Child feel justified. It will be just like his casting a female doctor, he will have made the design without thinking it over and then spend the time after it writing around the change. It's where Chibnall is just a poor showrunner, having big sweeping changes that keep a show fresh, especially a show like Doctor Who can be good but it needs a showrunner with a clear plan and long term vision, Chibnall makes the changes as they 'seem cool' without any long term thought

[@lysmith3454]

Tbh I think a woman would have made a fantastic doctor... Just not Jodie. I've watched some of her other stuff, and while she's a fantastic actor, she just isn't *that* kind of actor. Most of the roles I've seen her play are where she's the victim at some point, where she lets her emotions flow. That's where she gets her best scenes. But the doctor almost never lets their emotions flow (and is often almost emotionless at times), and Chibnall definitely did not write to Jodie's strengths, so we just got a weird mashup of an actor doing playing a character without ever being able to let her special talent shine. Should have been a different actor.

[@TheDoubleD441]

To those wondering what happened to the Dalek paradigm, they were relegated to Officer class

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@shawnrobinson9521]

They do mention the half human thing a couple of times in the moffit era. The 11th Doctor tells Any that he once convinced his mortal enemy that he was half human in "cold blood" and although not specifically said...definitely hinted at in Hellbent.

[@SeeminglyOdd]

Timeless Children has to be the worst story in all of Doctor Who, and I've seen Dimensions in Time.

[@BlackHedgehog]

Starting to wonder if WhoCulture even watches Doctor Who. It is stated IN THE EPISODE, John Hurt and as such Eccelson and David would not remember they saved Gallifrey.

[@Elsinlock]

Be honest, you knew what the 1st one would be.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@total2blue]

I'd like to see the Reapers come back and fix the time stream by totally removing the Chibnall era.

[@nickmoran419]

I just really want to see where timeless child goes. Ideally chibnall finds a way make this revelation have significance instead of the "showrunner powerplay" it feels like right now. Like I need to know if this is going to be plot important... Or if its just a big "gotcha" moment retcon because can. Its not a twist that stands well on its own. Can it be used to save the timelords from themselves? Basically All the things we need to hear from the doctor are if their character motivations are the same(running from inevitable, helping where they can) or if this completely changes how the doctor sees Themselves.

[@fabiorabelo3506]

There are a simple solution to the number one, Retcon Chibnall !!!!!!!!

[@Iced9]

Timeless children just makes me sad

[@bobbyjones3351]

I theorised Missy was the final incarnation of the Master and all other versions are previous incarnations so the current version will only know of missy through his memories of being John Simm

[@concettasorvillo3719]

I thought the same: Missy is like the mithological end of the Master in his last incarnation ever, but we will never get ther anymore xD

[@mystic_mimi21]

Can someone explain something to me . I have never understood why or how missy was the one to set up Clara and the doctor (she was the one who gave Clara the doctor’s number) my head cannon was it was fate or due to Clara going into his timeline so it was always supposed to happen

[@alessandrac7573]

Same that bit wasn't well explained...

[@MrDarthT]

To be fair to Sacha Dhawan, John Simm had a redemption of sorts in "The End of Time' (which also implies his final death, sacrificing himself to defeat Rassilon), and Michelle Gomez's incarnation ignores that.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

4:48 That could be one of hundreds of reasons the Master turned the TARDIS into a Paradox Machine in the series 3 finale...

[@Nuttybott]

The Master was in "The War Machines"?? Gosh, I will have to watch that one again...

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@Nuttybott I'm guessing that's sarcasm

[@capmodesty]

Regarding Missy and the new Master, has it been established anywhere that the current master is a regeneration of Missy and not the other way round?

[@AnglicanFish]

Like the time Moffat decided to get rid of my wife River! Who does that?

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@jazzydrawz3792]

@Sparky McCloud What's the video? I refuse to give it attention via clicking.

[@thethistlegunner]

I think the reapers never appearing again was because the Doctor said they were bacteria feeding on a wound in time that was created by there being two versions of the doctor and rose being there when rose changed time to save her dad, making it a weak point in time.

[@AndrewPRoberts]

What about literally ALL of Orphan 55? First of all, it changes Earth and humanity's previous canon destiny, like the great human empire, venturing off into space, earth ending in Episode 2 of the revival, being inspired to venture into space by Adelaide Brook, the Bad Wolf Corporation, satellite 5, New new new new new new new new new new new new new new new york, etc. Oh but nevermind. Earth ends like this and none of that happens. Cool. Then, it decides that this is just ONE possible timeline and that there are other better ones, which fundamentally goes against the way that time travel has worked in the show for its entirety. Fixed points in time? Who cares!! Why not save Pompei? Let's stop the Titanic from sinking, that sounds like a fun time, too!! Nothing about time travel can ever have any consequence anymore....nice....

[@Potatoboii2]

My theory about missy and the master is that the master's story always ends with missy , and it becomes a river song like situation , where each time the two meet , they will have different experiances.

[@JamesPlaysGames95]

Oh those wing creatures in Fathers Day. Imagine if they all appeared in the end of Day of the doctor

[@mgmasonbooks]

The thing about Missy is that The Doctor never saw the redemption. As Missy walks away, she lets Simm's Maste rand Capaldi's Doctor believe she had chosen Simm's Master. That explains why The Doctor fully accepted The Master had gone bad again.

[@jazzydrawz3792]

Both of the retcons I hate the most are both done by the 13th doctor. There are retcons I like but those ones are just...bad.

[@mrgreeny906]

I keep telling you. Sacha Dhawan’s Master is before Missy. We didn’t ACTUALLY SEE John Simm regenerate.

[@brianartillery]

Best thing Chibnall can do is to retcon all that 'Timeless Child' bollocks. It serves no purpose other than to really annoy long time fans. Say it occurred in a parallel universe or something, but the whole premise is wrong. Did Chibnall (and I find myself saying that name in a similarly disgusted way that I'd say 'Thatcher' in the 1980's) think that it was a good idea, and everyone would love it? From the fan response, and that of show writers, past and present, and of production staff, I'd say most definitely not. It's like he had a 'Chris Chibnall Triumphant' moment, without realising he'd gone too far. "I'm showrunner now, and you'll like my ideas or else!" Sod off, Chibnall.

[@jazzydrawz3792]

I'm hoping someone will come up and say "that's it, 13th doctor is no longer canon. We're redoing that doctor entirely."

[@timelordrohan9425]

the sasha dawan master isnt a retcon if you consider that he is in between simm and gomez

[@markc1793]

Did this guy just casually tell us his name was "patch" as if that were actually a real human name?

[@LucianCorrvinus]

Maybe thats just how we hear it...

[@CelesteStClair]

The first doctor was the first as far as he knew though, don't forget the Time Lords forced him to regenerate into a child and wiped his memory so he'd never know he was "The Timeless Child", they even went so far as to fake giving him a new Regeneration Cycle to hide the fact. So I don't personally consider that a retcon. The travels and regenerations prior to Hartnell are something he had and still has no memory of. The retcon there is that somehow the doctor was travelling in a Tardis also stuck disguised as a Police Box in his previous forgotten lives. There's no explanation as to why both times he stole a Tardis and Ran away he somehow ended up in a Tardis stuck looking like such.

[@tregennafarm187]

Ngl I think it's becoming mainstream and cool to call Jodie a shit doctor. Chibnall is shit at writing dr who but Jodie has good episodes in noth series'. Season 11 was one of my personal favourite, I'll admit the plot if timeless child is pretty bad, but it isnt Jodie's fault and her doctor is actually entertaining

[@SenileOtaku]

I had my own theory on the "half-human" statement from the TV Movie. It was Time Lord slang for someone who had used the Chameleon Arch (making oneself "human" for a time). My theory was that the Chameleon Arch was used by TARDIS engineers when activating a new TARDIS. If you remember The Doctor's comment in "Utopia" that regardless of how much they might evolve, they would eventually revert to our Homo Sapiens form. So initializing a TARDIS required a much more stable form than a Gallifreyan body, and the Chameleon Arch would give them that. The Master would probably have been too arrogant to use such a thing even by the time of the TV movie, considering it beneath him to change to a mere human. It was only later when that became his only option that he eventually used it.

[@Homewarfare]

I'm hoping they Retcon that Timeless child balderdash tbh cause the 1st doctor will always be the 1st in my opinion and I've never seen the timeless child ep and never will lol.

[@declanhugors]

I miss the Paradigm Daleks. The white dalek's voice was deep and more menacing than the Emperor Dalek.

[@STE6677]

Series 12 needs to be retconed

[@EmpireGamingWynter]

See the Dhawan situation doesn't bother me. David Tennant's Doctor described regenerating as not just changing your face, you become someone else. He's still him but his personality changes, his morals can change. So the redemption arc was important for Missy's incarnation, but when she regenerated (however she did), the new Master was given his own personality. Its entirely possible he reverts back to his evil ways

[@25JAZZLLY2525]

just like season nine of Scrubs and Mean Girls 2 The Timeless Children Storyline in Doctor Who does not Exist. They have all been Retcon from my mind.

[@spaceagepenguin]

UNIT in the end of "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" which ended with UNIT getting infiltrated by a brain alien, two years later it was mentioned in "Resolutions" that UNIT is gone going back to UNIT's status in the end of "The Zygon Inversion" where it was last seen disintegrated

[@monkeybone1080]

Glad to see that number one was the predictable answer. Never let up WhoCulture. Never let them know that it was okay.

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

In the 1996 Paul McGann TV movie it was due to the insistence of the American partners to make him half human. Fortunately this sub plot was scrapped for the 2005 reboot. As for the Timeless Child plot I hope they make it as 'made up' by the Master to distract the Doctor, or something like that. The whole point of the TARDIS being a Police Box is Hartnell's Doctor going to 1960s London and the chameleon circuit getting stuck. A pre-Hartnell Doctor flying around in a Police Box makes ZERO SENSE!

[@danthemeegs8751]

Go Patch go!

[@unsungno1]

Another reason the New Paradigm Daleks don't get used much is a practical one. The original design was created to fit a person sitting down, and looking through the "neck" section. With the new design it was too tall to see out when sitting and too tall to stand in, forcing the the operator to hunch over in a cramped space. Plus, they were harder to move around - you can tell by the way that after they enter, they no longer move around the way the old design Daleks do.

[@ciaranmurren]

Thee timeless child retcon be easily be undone. The Master is crazy and it wasnt true. Easy as.

[@jackablamo]

I think the reapers not showing up is because in Father’s Day not only did rose Change time and course a paradox, but there were also two sets of Rose and the doctor there which made it a delicate moment which allowed the reapers to appear.

[@mwd5001]

Timeless children ruined the show for me. I'm really disappointed that the BBC allowed the current writers to do it.

[@natehicks8000]

My headcanon is that time is just a little bit more wibbly-wobbly than we think it is and that constant reconning is just something that happens naturally in the universe as the past and future changes and reforms

[@replimatreviews]

Yawn. How many times are we gonna get comments and videos about The Timeless Children that ignore what we saw and was told in The Brain of Morbius and seasons 25 and 26? We already knew the Doctor was there at the beginning, that he was more than just a Time Lord, that he was involved in the creation of Time Lord society. We already knew he had incarnations prior to Hartnell. The Timeless Children simply revealed more details, added more layers, to what we already knew about her.

[@MichaelM28]

R.I.P DOCTOR WHO 1963 - 2017

[@HyperDaveUK]

This account better start getting more positive video titles soon, I LOVE Doctor Who But titles like: Ten people who wished they'd never been in Doctor Who or Ten Scripts that were so bad they had to be cancelled/rewritten are just not gonna bring me here.

[@christhompson8003]

tbh the Paradigm I always thought that they referred to the organic part of the Darlek rather than the tank part. just because we see bronze ones later on doesnt change anything as the darlek insides made form a "purer" DNA. he half human bit I actually liked as explained why he is so different to other timelords in classic episodes - including The Invasion of Time where he is shown to have a completely different thought pattern and able to think illogically. This would have also worked brilliantly as a pay off for the hybrid

[@ftumschk]

10:43 Sorry, but the Doctor wasn't the origin of the Time Lords. All the Timeless Child did was to involuntarily provide regeneration genes to the _Shobogans,_ courtesy of Tecteun. These "regenerating Shobogans" couldn't become Time Lords (literally "lords of time") until Rassilon and Omega came along and conquered *time* travel... the clue is literally in the name. Regeneration does not define the Time Lords, and neither is it unique to them. 8:30 The "First Doctor isn't the First Doctor" bit really should have referenced The Brain of Morbius, and what Philip Hinchcliffe and Robert Holmes fully intended those other incarnations to represent. It's made quite clear, both in the script and how it's realised on screen, that it's the _Doctor,_ not Morbius, who is being driven back, beyond Hartnell, to _his_ beginning.

[@amaan9662]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOvlXp4q7CLnLs

[@KleineKassiopeia]

Wasn't it also implied that the doctor only ever had a certain number of regenerations? I seemed to recall that they allways said the the doctor only could have (I think) 12 regenerations or so.

[@ftumschk]

Until halfway through Tom Baker's era, it was always assumed that the Doctor could live forever - indeed, the Doctor said so on at least one occasion. The regeneration limit was a plot device invented by scriptwriter Robert Holmes, so he could place the Master in jeopardy by putting him on his final incarnation in "The Deadly Assassin" (1976). This caused problems 5 years later, when they wanted to give the Master another lease of life, so they invented the idea that Time Lords can take over people's bodies. Then, in 1983, scriptwriter Terrance Dicks invented the idea that Time Lords could be given more than one cycle of regenerations. The whole thing's a bit of a mess, and it always has been, which is why I don't worry about things like the "retcons" in this video.

[@roryevans4295]

sacha dhawan’s master is before missy, no retcon needed 👍

[@jacobhogan3208]

Except he isn’t, it’s shown in multiple things outside the show that he’s after.

[@roryevans4295]

Jacob Hogan yes but that’s all down to what the individual person counts as canon, all television canon would suggest dhawan’s master comes before missy (possibly before simm too, as it’s not made clear tv wise that simm regens in to missy after them both killing each other) it’s supposed dhawan’s master waited around for 13 as to not cross any pervious doctors or masters to avoid a paradox, but that’s just the tv canon, it’s up to you if you want to count the books, big finish audios and other media as completely canon or not

[@julieeverett7442]

correct, NO ONE said there was a direct connection between Missy and Simms master

[@roryevans4295]

julie everett TV canon wise I don’t think we’ll ever actually find out who fits where as the master in their timeline, it’s left deliberately open ended I think, so each individual can place any master in any timeline to fit their desires, but with missy killing simm, it leaves simm becoming missy and missy becoming dhawan and them both being fine with each other on that space ship, or simm becoming dhawan and missy becoming?? A new master? Delgado? Child Derrick Jacobi? Nobody knows yet, the master is left open ended so we as an audience can fill in the blanks as we see fit

[@julieeverett7442]

@@roryevans4295 no the only point I made is there is no proof, simm master and missy directly follow each other, the modern master can be anywhere in the time line after the one we see with 3rd

[@tonyjohansson7567]

A lovely episode to watch!

[@colinsloan6129]

Let’s just change who cultures name to timeless children culture. I mean, that’s every video now, right?

[@monkeybone1080]

Just shows how truly awful Timeless Children, and Chin Balls as a whole is.

[@zacherymcdonnell281]

@@monkeybone1080 it wasn't horrible you'll just have 2 get use to it crybaby

[@monkeybone1080]

@@zacherymcdonnell281 Clearly it wasn't good either as evident by Doctor Who's continued decline in viewership, and the sheer backlash it has received.

[@DaveMan1K]

6:58 That would've been the case had Christopher Eccleston chose to return. But since he didn't, they had to write around that.

[@trolleyfan]

Technically, "The First Doctor is not the First Doctor" was already set up with the *Fourth* Doctor episode, "The Brain of Morbius," which showed him having a good dozen or so pre-First lives (kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2LEYpuliNNnq7s). This of course was then ignored...so *technically* the "Timeless Children" is a retcon of a retcon.

[@Nuttybott]

It was stated quite clearly in both "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" (and elsewhere) that Hartnell's incarnation was the first. So the additional faces in "The Brain of Morbius" are either previous incarnations of Morbius, or some kind of mind game the Doctor was playing to try and throw Morbius off. Basically the modern series has declared ITSELF non-canonical to the original series with all of these retcons. Which suits me fine...I was never a fan of NuWho anyway, so now I no longer feel even a long-term fan's obligation to watch it. :-/

[@ianwilliams5866]

The Time Lord president said 'show me the earliest Doctor', not the 'first' . And even he may not have been aware of the machinations of this mysterious agency and the Doctor's previous multiple lives. The Hunrdall Doctor asks if the Davison is 'first regeneration', and the Davison Doctor says 'fourth' but they're not aware of their previous lives either. I don't think numbers were assigned to any of the Doctor's incarnations anywhere in the original series.

[@Hanmacx]

About the reapers and paradoxes The thing there was that Rose did travel back twice She saw that crash and she wasn't there at his side When they travel back again to run into her previous self she did invalidate the first iteration

[@TheWhore2culture]

I went with everything apart from Sylveter McCoy, at that point I just stopped watching. Fast forward to the awesome Steven Moffat reboot & I didn't miss an episode, forgiving anything,simply to have one of my all time favourite shows back. Torchwood was an even bigger added bonus,like Dr Who there is always going to be better stories than others,but,I was satisfied. The new Chris Chibnall show disenfranchised me from moment one, I have zero problem with either the Dr being a woman or Jodie Whittaker ,whom I'd enjoyed in other projects. I hate her accent & the character Chibnall has written for her,I loath the cluttered up group of companions,in fact - for me it McCoy all over again! I've just stopped watching; I have my boxed sets and love your videos,thanks for all the hard work, but,until Chibnall & his 'version' of the show stops,then I'll stick with all the awesome stuff I've got. Missing out McCoy,hasn't decreased my complete enjoyment of the rest and that DREADFUL movie version...well in 'my' timeline, it just never happened,again loosing nothing. Very best to you&yours & anyone who's read this far👋🌟✌

[@dandabmouth9068]

I love how everyone seems to miss the fact that in one of Clara's lifetimes where she was split up she was a Time Lord because there would be no other way for her to have free access and roam of gallifrey... In order to convince the first doctor to take a different TARDIS... Which would be the same tardis considering it's the same personality somehow or another.

[@eternallylearning2811]

Oooo Ooooh thankyou for pointing that out lol wouldn't the other timelords find something off about her if that was the case

[@paingoret6]

Oh now I find this really interesting the concept of reincarnating into a species from another planet. Obvs here on Earth people talk about reincarnating between humans and other species but I never gave it much thought for reincarnation on different planets on this show (not that I ever really gave reincarnation much thought at all for Who)