10 Harley Davidson Motorcycles that weren't very Harley

[@Stribog1337]

The V-Rod's design just screams "it's the 2000's now, we're living the future. Better act like it!", as most things, from stereos to razors and websites did back at that time 😑

[@michaeldowney24]

it was also 20 years before that the the V-max was making more power than that gutless harley

[@tokyosmash]

That’s what happens when they let Erik Buell design it then at the last minute say “it isn’t Harley enough”

[@nomadenview]

@@michaeldowney24 even the old vmax still crazy fast and also reliable 🙂

[@ianjones2731]

Yet hold their value bigtime

[@skinny1968]

Love my v rod.smooth fast and reliable.

[@jimzenglish1]

Another bike to add is the XR1200. A great naked sports bike that Harley ditched and is now collectable.

[@ElsinoreRacer]

The Aermacchi horizontal singles (Sprint 250 and 350 I believe) were the basis of very competitive short-track racers for years, even after Harley quit selling them. They made the right kind of power, were pretty bulletproof even if modified to the hilt, and the cylinder configuration gave it an unbeatably low center of gravity. Those things were a way of life in short track for a generation.

[@davidmacgregor5193]

Horizontal singles are a very Italian thing, other Italian marques like, Benelli, MotoBi and Moto Guzzi also built horizontal singles.

[@ElsinoreRacer]

@@davidmacgregor5193 Yea, post-war into the early 60s. Some of them very overstyled. All pretty ugly to my eye.

[@gerry5134]

They actually look really cool !

[@breathestrongcycling3672]

Always thought those early Aermacchi bikes were pretty good looking even if nobody else does. Also remember Harley/aermacchi were 3 time 250 GP world champions and won the world 350 GP class back in the mid seventies

[@kenashcom7580]

You missed perhaps Harley's most successful venture with Buell.

[@jvillain9946]

Buell was never really owned by HD. They just had controlling interest and manufactured them between 1998 and 2009 when they were trash. It wasn't until after EBR received ownership back and stopped using HD parts that Buells actually started to become half decent. Even still until more recently they still have been extremely lacking in comparison to the rest of the sportbike market. I got to ride a 2023 buell hammerhead and it was like riding a ducati 916 from 2 decades ago but jankier and squirelier. Still ride by cable, the front suspension was lacking, the throttle was extremely janky, the brakes were undesirable, and that was the best Buell had made up to that point. It was not confidence inspiring in the twisties

[@johnschofield9496]

You forgot the Baja 100. Those and the Hodaka Super Rat were the 2 most popular small dirt bikes in the '70's

[@AzRgr]

I was looking for this. Yes, the Baja 100 was a rather successful dirt bike for Harley. Too bad they abandoned the market - never had a follow-up.

[@davidcantwell2489]

I wanted a Baja so bad when I was kid.

[@jameshealy4594]

The V-Rod was the biggest glimmer of hope that Harley has had since I started riding almost 30 years ago. Fast, pretty, better in almost every way than their other models. I'm not sure if cancelling it stemmed from a marketing failure or a loss of internal vision or just deciding to cater to the lowest common denominator and assume they would always sell sportsters and fat boys. It absolutely was showing a better direction forward and it's insane to me that they haven't followed up on it properly.

[@SGTJDerek]

Don't know the exact time frame but, the V-Rod engine was about 30 years too late. Harley was in development with Porsche in the late '70's, early '80's. They discontinued that program and asked Reagan for help against Japanese Imports so they could get the EVO to market. Instead of using the relief to further their quality, they got it "just good enough". Hind sight is always 20/20 BUT, the concessions enacted by Reagan weren't going to go on indefinitely. When they ran out, Japan was more than ready even though they had spent the majority of their time developing Sportbikes. To me, the V-Rod was an answer to the V-Max. A decade to late, at least, for a small percentage of the market. The Street 500/750 were another concept too little, too late. Buell was another that could have benefited them greatly IF they'd have invested just a little more in. The vast majority of Harley riders are aging out and they have no real answer to attract First-time buyers. Gadgets and gizmos only go so far.

[@Jmacfann]

Great engine...piss poor bike. The rider triangle is awful and forward controls on a bike that is labeled as performance never makes sense. The new softtails are great and when dealers stop marking them up 20% that will be my next bike.

[@MrEiniweini]

I suggest you take a good look at the Sportster S. It doesn't pretend to be a copy of another manufacturers bike. Is it perfect? Well it is for me. It is a strong attempt to move forward in the market. (shhhh.... we don't talk about the 975 Nightster). It takes the lessons from the Vrod and makes a new bike that is really very ridable. It is not a cruiser or a bobber although people label it as either. It is a street bike. Right where the market needs to be.

[@Jmacfann]

@@MrEiniweini not for the price..if you are a Harley person you would spend the same on a new Softail and if your not then you wouldn't even look at the sportster a. Not a stab at you just with a bike like the Honda hornet coming out for half the cost and more power and less weight, Harley is only competing with Harley which is not a great business model to have.

[@krisgreenwood5173]

@@SGTJDerek I tend to agree SGT, but I thought Harley could of taken a similar direction with the Buell blast. Instead of making it a street bike, Harley should of taken it to an adventure bike,. Real spoked wheels and dressed it up for gravel roads and the back country. Now Harley has the Pan Am but it's 300, maybe even 400 lbs too heavy and if you should dump it in the back country it would take 3 men and a couple of draft horses to get it up right. Harley is doomed to Fat Bob's and dressers unless they really want to get out of their funk. Think WWII dispatch bikes. Something bullet proof and something you can get dirty. A Kawasaki 650 wearing a Harley badge.

[@Nebulax123]

Out of all of these non-Harley Harleys I loved the 250 Sprint when it came out and still do. To me it always looked like a cross between a Harley and a Ducati. For me at least the lines just make for a good looking machine.

[@ufo-ovniuk8030]

The VR1000 was an epic piece of kit, one was raced in the UK Bears series for a while and now sits in my friends office, if it had been released earlier as planned it would have been competitive against the 851/888s but by the time it came out things had moved on, imagine a track full of 888s, VR1000s and Britten V1000s, I would have been a very happy boy, still the engine became the basis for the V Rod project so in real terms it was a success, great video :)

[@georgebarnes8163]

Saw one racing at the NW200, it was all noise but no go, easily beaten by the 400cc machines.

[@davidlanger3295]

Too bad they never won one race

[@joaopedroejarque6566]

From an european perspective, the Street rod 750, The V Rod and the Café Racer where (are) truly Harley Davidson motorcycles. Of course they are. Beatiful machines.

[@joshuawade8319]

I agree about the XLCR. I fell in love with this bike when I first saw Black Rain and Michael Douglas riding one. I was young and that was what I imagined riding a motorcycle looked and felt like. It was an unrealistic representation (like much of Hollywood representations) but one that still had a major impact, on me at least.

[@BenJammin77]

I owned a 1977 XLCR, when I was in my early twenties. I loved the way it looked, and the previous owner had installed chrome straight drag pipes. It was very loud, certainly illegal, but I lived in a small rural Texas town, and got away with it. Handled really well. Had to sell it in order to pay for trade school tuition.

[@joshuawade8319]

@@BenJammin77 must have been awesome.

[@larrylong4407]

Ur right. Sporters man great sound it's the ticket to restart Harley one of the best movie. Bikes.

[@peterk2455]

There has always been this black T-shirt, beard and boots image that H-D dealers and staff promoted. To the point of driving other customers away. When I was 17 I took a 350 Aermacchi head to one of their shops, wanted new valve guides. The response, from the fat slob behind the parts counter, was 'that's not a real H-D, take it to the Yamasukmeshop'. I've never bought a single H-D item since. Yet I still own every BMW, Ducati, Honda and Suzuki and Yamaha I have bought, in near to 52 yrs of riding. All 40+ of them.

[@shaftdrive7567]

40+ wow. 👍🏿

[@jmason61]

Totally agree

[@kenster007]

I get it totally-been riding sporties 40 years. Sprinkle in some shovels and Evo's over those decades and I can speak the language pretty well. Just can't get into the crowd there at the dealership- sales and customers. My nephew got a used Iron 883 2 weeks ago and I went with him to pick it up. I had to get involved to get a 2nd key and a manual thrown in. Salesman told me no spanner wrench came with it but I knew it was under the seat, I showed my nephew when we got home. That's after we aired up the tires-15psi out the door.

[@mattsypersma6418]

I know that one. I rode in on my M109R and was looking at their showroom. I was asked if I had a bike and told them what had. His reply: "So, you're here to look at real bikes". I left and I own more Suzuki's now. I wouldn't have been opposed to owning a Harley, until then.

[@BubStubbley]

I had a used 1968 Harley Rapido 125. Fast, reliable, handled any road surface you could throw at it, cornered on rails. It was tons of fun. It was an excellent bike, but Harley dealerships wanted nothing to do with it and would treat you like a cretin if you brought in to the shop, so I always took it to independent shops for maintenance.

[@Earthneedsado-over177]

Just browsing images it looks like it would be fun. Like a sturdy bicycle with a motor.

[@larrynorsworthy8582]

I had one. Good bike.

[@seththomas9105]

H-D dealerships were notrious for almost driving customers away in the 70's and early 80's. Especially if you weren't "their' type of customer. Too bad as I have owned 5 H-D's and have only bought one at a dealership. And yes, used bikes like the 125 are what people like me learned to ride on. How do the bike companies think they are getting new riders if the only used bikes around are $8K, 1500 CC and weigh 600 LBS?

[@travisrich2486]

@@seththomas9105 that's why you practice with fat girls first then you get a Harley

[@kimkleiner8456]

@@seththomas9105 When the evolution came out their new market was the OK boomers that had a Honda 90 one summer and had some memories of bringing some girl up to the lake and since neither packed a bathing suit ...Yada Yada. Thirty years later, recently divorced and in the midst of mid life crisis they had the finances to spend the equivalent of down payment for the house their ex was still living in. Perfect customers for Harley because they had the money to pay the crazy money they were asking for technology that was older than even them! Not only were willing to pay ridiculous money for the bike but they were eager to customize their new rides with fringed leather and conchoes and maybe a louder exhaust. New riding get up of jacket, vest and chaps. Maybe gloves with exposed fingers. If they lived in a state that required a helmet they would get the minimalist beanie model. Wouldn't pass muster for batting at their kids little league games. Biggest issue was riding a small displacement single to their summer job when they were in their late teens doesn't translate into a big bad biker. Could weigh more without a passenger than the Honda 90 did with his girlfriend, her sister and little brother to squash any thoughts of hanky panky and thirty years working behind a desk has conspired to make this whole proposition one that could get ugly really quickly. They might fantasize about riding with the Hurd while day dreaming at work. B UT that's a high testosterone situation just when older men typically stop making as much. Showing up at a biker bar and attempting to mingle when not knowing the protocols and culture could result in them waking up ( if they were lucky) in a ditch wondering where their bike was. If they bought a women with them ... I won't even go there. Not picking on the RUBIES. Ducati enjoyed a similar experience. Wealthy 50's folk wearing Denaszi full body armor leathers with knee slidders that they were desperately trying to scuff up. Carbon Fibre assesories like key fobs to save every gram of unnecessary weight but you know they can't ride because they don't even get their feet on the pegs till their halfway down the block.

[@docloftis]

I’m sure Buell has something to say about bikes that never took off for HD

[@anthonylockwood9796]

Weird that you commented that the V-Rod should be a V4, when Porsche were asked to design a water cooled engine for the upcoming Vrod the first design was actually a V4, Harley turned it down as they believed that Harley customers would expect a V twin, but the V4 design didn’t go to waste, Yamaha took it from Porsche and their Vmax was born and later the Royal Star Venture.

[@SouthTexasGhostRider]

I dont see how that could be true considering the V-Max has been around since the 80s and the V-Rod didn't come around until the 2000s

[@maico125]

You overlooked the 250 MX bike from 1977. (An Aermacchi / Cagiva) bike. It was actually very fast and competitive, and is very much sought after by collectors and vintage racers alike.

[@hauskahirvi]

This also came to my mind right after seeing this video :). Those Harley MX bikes looked really cool and they even fielded an MX team back in the day. They even had a version of the bike with rear forks in place of the rear shocks.

[@maico125]

@@hauskahirvi Yes it's a pretty blatant oversight.

[@theknifedude1881]

I had a couple of the Sprints, back in the’70’s. My then,brother in law, had one and his dad didn’t want him to hurt himself, so he made him give it to me. Kinda let me know where I stood in his eyes.

[@peternorton5648]

Wow! That was a subtle/not so subtle hint.

[@toddbrackett4277]

V-Rod was one of the coolest Harleys ever made.

[@stevek8829]

Of course it was coolest, it was liquid cooled.

[@louchapman3891]

Helps that it was a Porsche

[@beauxdawson6122]

Only after the XR 1000

[@gandhi3625]

That's because it was supposed to be a Buell

[@johnsumser9743]

They should have put that engine into a more sport-oriented frame.

[@timothywhieldon1971]

the V-rod is one of the most badass underrated motorcycles of all time... also its POORSHAH.. Porsche... with an ah at the end... and this is why it was awesome.... because VAG had a say in how it was done... IMO the only HD that is worth more than scrap value of metal

[@A_A_Ron001]

I get it I get it, I own a 2006 V-Rod and also a 2016 Night Rod Special.... I also own a 2020 Street Glide Special, I ride on 2 wheels 365 days a year, every day traveling 64 mi total work. I can tell you 100% what kills the V-rod besides that baby tank is the total riding position... But I get it, that's why I have 2

[@littleshopofelectrons4014]

I briefly looked at a V-Rod but that feet-forward riding position was a non-starter for me. I want a standard feet-down riding position.

[@A_A_Ron001]

@@littleshopofelectrons4014 your intuition is serving you correct, I have done extensive relocation work on my wifes 2006 when it was still mine and I have just delt with it on the 2016... Then I rode my 2020 Street Glide Special and it was over. I'm now almost to the point of putting a Trask kit on it, then it will be 131 with a turbo, honestly it's already enough but yes floor board's lol.

[@DeanAWhite-gr8eo]

Your' opinion stinks, like the other thing that everyone has. H-Ds have their place in the world of motorcycles the same as any other brand. I've owned many different bikes starting with a Triumph, then a Ducati, several Hondas, Yamahas, Suzuki's, more Hondas, and another Ducati and now I have 3 vintage Sportsters and an FXE. I won't be going back to the bikes I mentioned before, but they were ALL good motorcycles. We all have our favorites but that doesn't diminish other brands. Go ahead, be a motorcycle snob, but you'll miss a large part of the motorcycle experience.

[@dfgivens]

#5 XLCR reminded me of the "John Player Special." Always done in black & gold, JPS packages were popular back in the 80's. They were typically cafe-style race bikes for the street & track.

[@Armadacon]

I admit. The XLCR is drop dead gorgeous. It's the only Harley I'd ever want to own. Mind you. I'm British, so it wouldn't be any surprise.

[@Freesavh1776]

I will still never understand why this channel isn't pushing a million subs by now. It's 1 of the best channels if you live bikes.

[@MichaelandCathy1999]

Had a good friend that had that Cafe racer 1000, drove it myself and it was a pretty cool machine.

[@ats-3693]

The XLCR is a very cool bike.

[@dannymostarac1799]

They are sweet

[@Bainbridge007]

Here’s the thing though, for someone like me who isnt an American and steeped in harley history, the v-rod and street 500/750 make perfect sense in many ways. The street 500/750 because they were a affordable way to get into harley for me then living in india where car’s cost less. The vrod because i was a young guy and that design appealed to me.

[@sunnyandclay1255]

Both the Vrod and the Street 500 were extremely popular in Australia and New Zealand ... in Australia the Street 500 was the introductory level bike for 1st time learner rides and to the brand .. the Vrod however was immensely popular with Kiwi scaffolders and fork lift drivers ..

[@donaldpruett852]

In 1960 the Hummer became the Super 10. 10 Cubic Inches. Prior to that the 125cc Hummer was shadowed by the1957, 58 & 59 165CC 2 stroke with the only difference between the 125 was the ignition switch on the gas tank to the left of the gas cap. A little more power than the 125. Gave Cushman's, Mustangs (the smaller engine ones), Lambretta's and Vespa's a run for their money. I had one. That was what started my love for the motorcycle culture that has lasted me a lifetime.

[@oldschoolbudapestworkout2105]

The XLR is my favorite

[@greglange3048]

I've been riding Harleys since 1978, in 2018, I finally decided to actually get an MC endorsement. The Motorcycle Safety School used "Street 500's " on loan from HD. I have a custom Road KIng, but have to say, that Street 500, with a tallboy seat, fit my 6'3" 250 pound ass. It had loads of power,, easily wheelied and handled as well as any bike I've ever rode. If I ever need a smaller bike for zipping around town, I would consider a Street 500/750.

[@mogmogman5476]

You are a perfect candidate for a used Buell XB9S of 2003 or later. Even more grins, much lighter, faster and low maintenance, if you can find one now.

[@kenhall514]

You hit the nail on the head with the vrod. Cool design, great for drag racing because even dealers said the handling was garbage....it only did straight lines well

[@rickhunter6513]

I rode the Tail of The Dragon on one. “Interesting” to say the least….

[@absolutelynobody7294]

The XR1200 could have made the list in my opinion.

[@fearsomename4517]

I remember most of these bikes when they were new. In '72 Harley came out with the "Shortster" one year only 65cc. In '73 it became the X-90, oil injected. You nailed it again, Bart. Great content.

[@ianjones2731]

THE absolute legend of the VHND 👊

[@fearsomename4517]

@@ianjones2731 If you say so, I'll take it.

[@fearsomename4517]

@@ianjones2731 Can you tell me your username on the Desk, you don't have to answer that question, if you don't want to.

[@ianjones2731]

@@fearsomename4517 It's your old mate Nek! Pretty cool to bump into you man hope ur good 😎👍

[@fearsomename4517]

@@ianjones2731 It's the wonder from down under. You need to come around more often to the Desk. This is my favorite motorcycle channel. Hope you're well.

[@sydrah2]

Absolutely accurate with the live wire. It’s so fun to ride, but the price and lack of range kills it for me

[@Stephen29471]

Have you seen the new delmar live wire i looks even better than the first one it has about 35 less miles in range and almost half the price to me it is a lot more competitive with commuter bikes

[@SirNarax]

Electric is always going to have comparatively poor range compared to an ICE. That is just not what they are good for. When you make a bike like the Livewire though it really kills the appeal of an EV. There are lots of things EV is great at that just do not apply to the Livewire.

[@kbeightyseven]

As a person who has no interest in Harley’s, those aermacchi’s are super cool!

[@johnrborges2363]

Thank you! -- Perfect video to have my morning coffee with. Things I didn't know about HD.

[@CaptHollister]

Please, it's pronounced Ah-air-mack-ee. You might have included the family of Aermacchi two-stroke singles in 125-175-250 displacements and street-only and dual-sport versions. There was even a race-winning MX250 motocrosser. The street-only versions at least looked like smaller Sportsters. They eventually became Cagiva. Postwar, the DKW RT125 was built by Harley in the US, BSA as the Bantam in the UK, Minsk in the Soviet Union, and Yamaha in Japan. Plus DKW themselves in West Germany and IFA in East Germany.

[@derrickhuebner954]

I have an FXR. It almost belongs on this list. It was designed by Eric Buell who went on to form his own company. The FXR had a heavy duty frame that was designed to possibly take a V4 engine that they built prototypes of but never produced. Sometimes it's called the Ugly Glide because it kind of looks like a Japanese cruiser. It had a fairly long run until being replaced by the Dyna Glide. Harley brought it back as a limited edition later on, and it was rumored that they did this to use up all the FXR frames that they had laying around when they discontinued it the first time.

[@ericalger5003]

No. There were no spare FXR frames laying around. The FXR community was small but VOCAL and Harley used the FXR chassis to test the waters for CVO.

[@dukecraig2402]

The 5 speed rubber mount frame was not replaced by the Dyna, they were both made side by side along with the Softail frame for some years after the Dyna came out. They were all 3 replaced by the new chassis that they use now, it's the same frame from the seat area forward for the Softail and regular big twin models, from the seat area back is the difference between the two with the regular big twin models having the traditional 2 shock swing arm design and the Softail having it's traditional triangle shaped swing arm with hidden shocks and a separate Dyna model no longer being made. When they did make the Dyna the frame wasn't the only difference, there were changes in the engine (and transmission) of the Dyna that quite often would be incorporated into all the big twin models within a few years of debuting on the Dyna model, the hydraulic cam chain tensioners on the Twin Cam being one of them, almost like the Dyna was a test bed for design changes and improvements incorporated into the rest of the big twin models later on. I always considered the Dyna chassis to be superior to the regular 5 speed rubber mount chassis and never understood why they just didn't base all the big twin models on the basic Dyna chassis design after it was released.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@ericalger5003 The CVO's have never been anything more than a regular production model that already has a bunch of Screamin Eagle parts installed from the factory with special paint jobs and badges, there's never been anything different about the basic chassis from the regular model that a CVO is based on. Harley was never "testing the waters" when it comes to that, CVO's were just a way for someone to buy a particular model that already has a bunch of stuff on it that they would have had to spend more money and time buying separately and having the dealership install.

[@ericalger5003]

@@dukecraig2402 I guess you know more about than I would. I only spent 14 years working in Harley-Davidson's Engineering Department from 1996 to 2010.

[@ericalger5003]

@@dukecraig2402 The Dyna was a complete pile of shit!

[@larryfromwisconsin9970]

A neighbor in my 55+ RV park has a Harley golf cart and I see them for sale occasionally. Considering HD quit making golf carts in the early 1960s it is saying something about their quality that they are still putting around in 2022.

[@jimgomez5396]

Late 70s

[@redmille1000]

Is it because Hardly Movingsons are technologically closer to golf carts than modern motorcycles?

[@rangerjones5531]

Snow Machines badged as Harleys were cool

[@jimgomez5396]

@@rangerjones5531 you remember those too! Dealer here got 4 of them Harley,told him,he had to take them!

[@RoadieWingZZ]

@@redmille1000 You trolls just gotta troll… Go hate somewhere else 🤷‍♂️

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

I remember looking at the Harley Davidson SS350 Sprint when I was shopping for a learner bike. This was back when Australia was changing the laws from restricting novices to 250cc to allowing up to 660cc withe a power to weight limit, but before motorcycle manufacturers started releasing restricted versions of their bikes to meet the legislation. I scoured the approved motorcycle list many times looking for something cool & exotic & it always came down to the Harley or a Ducati Pantah. I ended up finding a great 600SL Pantah but always loved the quirky look of the Harley.

[@51tomtomtom]

Still have one :1972 ! Became 50 in April !

[@alelectric2767]

They also had a snowmobile division.

[@nducation8039]

This XLCR is the bike Michael Douglas rode in "Black Rain". It looked and sounded really cool in the movie.

[@michaelsorrentino9279]

Calling the Topper a moped is in insult!!

[@crazytrain7114]

Damn nearly bought an XLCR, but at over 10 grand in 82, and it being a Harley, I went with a Yamaha. I got over 90,000 miles on the XjR

[@jerryandnancywertzbaugher7778]

Great episode.😎 You really nailed what Harley Davidson is all about and why in my 50+ years of motorcycling I've never wanted a Harley.🤪

[@Earthneedsado-over177]

Not even a Harley-Davidson golf cart? I could go for some of that beef jerky.

[@thelost_woods]

That cafe racer is dope

[@lukaszelenal4278]

I feel the xr1200/xr1200x should have made it on the list. At the time it was the most powerful Harley to date before the v rod, it had the best of the best suspension dual front breaks, and was designed almost completely different the the typical 1200xl. I owned one and I really wish I would have kept it, it ran good handled half decent and did turn a lot of heads.

[@GrigoriZhukov]

The problem is Harley has the "that's not how we do things" mentality.

[@Earthneedsado-over177]

As the hillbilly would say, "that's the way I was brought up and that's the way I'm gonna be".

[@dukecraig2402]

Really? So that's why all these different types of bikes in this video exist? What Harley has tried over the years and what people spend their money on is two different things, they've offered all kinds of different motorcycle platforms over the years but at the end of the day whatever it is that people will buy is the final say on the matter.

[@SamSwanner]

Harley had that mentality until the early 80s when the employees bought the company back from AMF. Then it became the people that bought Harleys with that mentality. Now that those people are getting too old to ride, we are seeing changes. The Pan America and the Sportster S (should have had a different name) are examples of that.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@SamSwanner Harley was trying all kinds of different things before that, most of the bikes you see here are before the early 80's, wherever their customers money keeps leading them is wherever it keeps leading them. And it wasn't "the employees" that bought Harley off AMF, it was a bunch of upper management executives who saw an opportunity, AMF had dumped butt loads of money into Harley developing things that hadn't been put out in the market yet, they knew about those things and knew it was a great package deal, all they had to do was a little bit of finish development work and marketing for things like the Evo engine and the Softail frame, they were the next step after the rubber mount 5 speed frame Eric Buell had designed when he worked there and they'd just started producing, AMF started all of that along with having built a modern production facility in York Pa and all kinds of modern tooling for Harley. When AMF bought Harley in 1969 it was because Harley was about to go under, the 4 Japanese motorcycle manufacturer's were swimming around it like sharks waiting to get it, the guy who was the CEO of AMF at the time was a motorcycle enthusiast and didn't want to see America's last surviving motorcycle company come under foreign ownership, so he rallied support at American Machine and Foundry (AMF) to purchase Harley, during AMF's tenure Harley had tons of money dumped into it and equally as important despite the Nova project not being completed it got Harley into bed with Porsche to do engineering work for them, what killed the Nova project and eventually put Harley in a position that some of the poeple in upper management bought it was AMF got a new CEO in 1978, he wasn't a motorcycle rider or anything else he was just a bean counter, the first time he was reviewing the books and saw these very large checks that'd been made out to Porsche and he inquired what they were for he lost his mind over them paying someone that kind of money over their Harley division that at that point looked like it might fold up, he saw it as putting money into a lost cause and pulled the plug on the Nova project, the Evo engine was born out of Nova's ashes. In 1981 some upper management guys at Harley, Von Beals and the other's, saw that Harley was ripe for picking with it's new facility and all the tech it could release but was being held back and under valued by AMF's current CEO, so they went to the bank and borrowed the money themselves to buy it, the current CEO at AMF didn't mind one bit since as far as he was concerned Harley was nothing but a thorn in his side, but that's because he was dumb and just didn't get what was going on at the time.

[@leewarry8641]

No that’s what makes Harley .

[@TheBlueDogMan]

The XLCR and the V-Rod were the best Harleys the company gave up on. Another one was The MX250.

[@georgem4309]

The 125cc Rapido was a good looking bike. One of the Aermacchi machines in its day.

[@jamesadams2334]

WTF? Did you do any research for this or did you just pick models that you had never seen? The Aermacchi bikes were mostly fairly good motorcycles. The Spint was one of the best Harleys ever made. The Harley / Buell bikes were innovative, fairly fast looked good and handled well. The cafe bike was a head of it's time. The new Triumph Bonneville's are actually a lot bigger than the old 650s. The sportster is probably the greatest Harley ever built and now they discontinued it. The big Harleys in my estimation are useless. Too big, too heavy, too under powered, too expensive. They literally are finely painted, highly chromed farm implements. I really like your other videos but you were really off the mark on this one.

[@theoffroadexecutive]

Amazing content - educational as always, thanks Bart! Alpine greetings ;- )

[@Drt0Kkdo]

With that V4 Vrod statement. I couldnt even imagine what a 45degree V4 would sound like. Thats monstrous.

[@krisgreenwood5173]

In 1971 I took my motorcycle license test on a Harley. It was a 50cc 2 stroke. An older friend loaned it to me for the test. He road it daily in the summer.

[@marnixhoebers5176]

The Vrod was just too good and Harley fans dont want good bikes.

[@SPSteve]

In 1979 I had a chance to buy a brand new XLCR, still in the crate, for $2500 at my local Harley-Honda dealer. I thought about it briefly but decided to buy a new Honda CB750F Super Sport instead. I didn't regret buying the 750F but I wish I could have gotten that XLCR as well.

[@filthyanimal874]

You fucked up majorly Steve 😖

[@SPSteve]

@@filthyanimal874 Yes, should have bought the XLCR. I bought and sold cars and motorcycles a lot when I was younger so it's unlikely I would have kept the XLCR long term, but it would have been nice to experience it for a couple years. Having one now would be especially cool being how the air cooled Evo Sportster is now history.

[@michaelsorrentino9279]

I have seen XLCR selling for 30K now. Would have been a great return on your investment!!

[@SPSteve]

@@michaelsorrentino9279 I've been a buyer and seller my entire life so it's unlikely I would have kept it more than a couple years. But they are cool and I wish I would have bought it when I had the opportunity.

[@chris_vk3radio]

Personally I think the XLCR-1000 doesn't deserve to be on this list, it actually had reasonable handling and power for a bike of that time period (I didn't say good) and it certainly had the cool factor. I think it just failed to move a captive audience from the trusted and more powerful Japanese bikes available at that time, like the similar styled Kawasaki Z1-R 1000.. That XLCR cool factor was revisited in 1989 when Michael Douglas rode one in the film "Black Rain", and that was ten years after the model went out of production! As you mentioned, they are now highly sought after, and I bet there's plenty out there that would love to get their hands on one.. Like others have pointed out here, I was surprised you didn't include the Buell ?

[@turbosteve84]

Well done. One push back. I think the "problem" with the V-Rod was that it WASN"T that customizable. When I first saw it I was stunned at how beautiful it was (and still is). Then I put on my borrowed wraparounds and bandana and realized that everything on the Rod was so meticulously styled and fitted "just so," (look at the way the faux fuel tank follows the contours of the frame) that there wasn't a whole lot one could do to it, at least with out f'ing it up. And what's a Harley if you can't do that? I heard it sold better in Europe.

[@rickhunter6513]

Yeah, it looked pretty awesome just stock. Anything after market just didn’t look right. Put a windshield on it and good grief did it ruin the look. Definitely a niche type of bike and not for everyone

[@brendanmartin4489]

Umm it is customizable lmao lack of imagination and fabricating skills lmao

[@towgod7985]

I would really be interested in the cafe racer edition.

[@jmason61]

I'm not a Harley rider but holy moly some of these machines (even the scooters which my old buddies would call their giant wide beasts) are super cool to see...& they all have a logo somewhere! Terrific video

[@Robert-jg9rr]

Actually my first bike was a 2017 750 Street Rod and all the Harley riders that I know really liked it after I let them take it for a spin. Nobody ever said it looked goofy or weird or anything of the sort. My only complaint about it was that I didn't find the riding position to be very comfortable for long rides but it was never intended to be used for really long rides so it's difficult to fault the bike for that. It was fast, responsive and very nimble. I had the matt gray paint scheme on mine which admittedly did make it look way better than the other colors available. I would still have that bike had some idiot not pulled out in front of me because he wasn't paying attention and caused me to total the bike. But it was a good bike and I would buy one again if given the proper opportunity.

[@davidhottenstine6497]

The problems with those 750 and 500s was they were produced in India.

[@claytonknight3078]

I was at a pro race at the LSU indoor short track and Corkey Keener won the main on a sprint. I had never even heard of one , but that bike was so fast and so loud and could believe he beat the likes of Randy Cleek ,Darryl Hurst, and all the big hitters from Houston, Dallas, and all over the U.S. I always loved the XR750 and the VR1000. Miguel Duhamel almost won twice, but his shift lever fell off at Mid Ohio, and out braked himself at Brainerd. Loved the video!

[@dukecraig2402]

Where do you get that the V-Rod was made starting in 1999? The first year for them is 2001 not 1999, and here's a bit of information for you that Harley doesn't want people to know, they paid Porsche to develop that engine at the behest of Eric Buell, that was originally supposed to be the engine for his radical new XB series bike, but when Porsche was done with it Buell didn't want it because it was too heavy, so Harley was stuck with an engine they'd paid all that money to have Porsche develop and they had to do something with it to get their money back, hence the V-Rod chassis was designed.

[@Monkeyboy2457]

I remember when the VR1000 was released in the 90's. A few came to Australia. They looked amazing with one side painted orange and the other side painted black. Sadly, they were over $50,000 and could not be registered for the road.

[@gabe_20xx]

That xlcr looks sooo nice 🤤

[@whippy-9543]

My favorite kind of harleys are the Aermacchi models, my family has a handful of aermacchi bikes and I love them.

[@savage22bolt32]

Bronson rode one in an episode of the TV series. Just one episode where he entered an off road race.

[@andrewbaggley276]

I have a major crush on the XLCR, and only wish that H-D would bring back the as-it-was-in-'77-'79 model. Yes, it likely performed beyond specs in "Black Rain", but that doesn't change the fact that Mr. Willie G. Davidson knocked the design out of the park. If they did deign to reintroduce this one, better believe I'd be on the buyers waiting list ASAP. My congratulations on the very well-considered and incisive list you have here.

[@jthompson6189]

My uncle has a Vrod, things got a wicked sound. Real sick bike

[@mikewho9964]

Thanks - great historical perspective - what about Buell ? How does a small privateer take a Harley and make an amazing race bike that did win races !

[@TheDarkArtist66]

I totally agree, a street legal VR1000 would be awesome. But just knowing Harley, it would still cost an arm and a leg. I did actually just see an original vr1000 for sale for a bit over 100k. Sweet bikes either way

[@tgroghan]

Don't forget the un-Harley bike brand... Buell. They did the cafe racer thing of the 90's & early 2000's. Sadly putting the company on the chopping block and the rest is history now.

[@ralphmiller2307]

I’m an Australian and I’ve had a Buell S1 Lightning for 20 years. Absolutely love the “muell” and all my mates call it a Harley. Considering that at the end before they stopped making it it was completely owned by Harley. It was the obvious one for this list.

[@northerniltree]

The XLCR is pronounced "Excelsior".

[@Iowa599]

I don't think Bart has ever had a 2-wheeled daily-driver, like a true motorcycle enthusiast.

[@yonniboy1]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the SX175 dirt bike, another Aermacchi/HD collaboration in 1976 and actually sold quite well in Europe as did the XLCR1000 Sportster which was the top selling Harley in the UK during its short production run, as for the Livewire IMO EVs have a long way to go before replacing ICE vehicles but it gets the best reviews of all current EV bikes.

[@rangerjones5531]

Baja 100 it actually won its class in the Baja

[@filthyanimal874]

Also the SX250 Enduro

[@danielstevens3429]

I owned one of those Italian Harley Davidson SX175 when I was living in Germany, while on military duty there in 1982. It was a cool looking machine.

[@bigredracingteam9642]

I believe there also was a Harley-Davidson perfume; because one of the most important things for a biker is how they smell, obviously.

[@Earthneedsado-over177]

Would it smell like beer-soaked leather and sweat? Eww de parfumes.

[@romankalyniuk2596]

Harley did have a sport bike. It was called the Buell. They let it die when they could have developed it.

[@davidmacgregor5193]

I would have liked to have seen more of the Aermacchi machines, like the MX250 moto cross, the SS250 street bike or even Valter Villa's 350cc World Championship winner. How about the "Nova Project" modular engine machines from the late 70's and early 80's, there were plans to build a whole range of motorcycles using the Mova modular design from a 500cc V-Twin right up to a 1500cc V-Six. The Nova was dropped after the MoCo had spent betweem $10M and $15M developing it. The Nova was dropped in favour of the Evolution V-Twins.

[@kimkleiner8456]

Went to a motocross race at Unadilla, N.Y. and I was astonished to see a Hardley on the roster! Usually factory build and support race bikes to promote their current lineup and this was 1977. Aermachi made a scrambler based on the sprint and I think Harley offered those for awhile but those were 4 stroke and. I wouldn't even characterize them as a dirt bike. Aermachi probably marketed real dirt bikes in their home market as well as the rest of Europe but these were badged H-D. They were pretty but I don't remember how they preformed. By '77 the big four Japanese brands were dominating and you might see a Husky or Maico make the podium but it would be a fluke rather than a regular appearance. It's hard to believe but some of these bikes didn't have much wheel travel. Trick suspension was forward mounted suspension in rear. Yamaha was the only brand running a monoshock. Front forks might have an air or nitrogen valve installed but inverted forks with double digit suspension travel was still a few years away. Race was fantastic but not appropriate here. Personally I liked the '80's big twin with heads and carbs setup like xr750 with intake port on both cylinders in the rear instead of facing each other on all their other vtwins. Liked the electraglide and sportster sport models they offered for a while but they weren't really unique and I guess nobody, including myself, found them compelling enough to purchase one.

[@thatsmrharley2u2]

@@kimkleiner8456 Reading this and prior comments from you, you sound like a bitter Harley hater. To each his own. Like any other motorcycle, a well maintained Harley is as reliable as anything on the road. Ask me how I know. My main ride is an '81 Shovelhead, and I have owned it for more than two decades. It has taken me everywhere and has never let me down. But hey, you do you.

[@kimkleiner8456]

@@thatsmrharley2u2 Not sure why you label me as a Harley hater. The upload was titled " 10 Harley Davidson Motorcycles that weren't very Harley" and I merely was replying to another comment about Aermachi machines. In '77 I went to a motocross race in Unadilla N.Y. with a bunch of friends. I wasn't a die hard MX fan. I rode a bike that was titled as a '67 Dunstall Atlas witch was strange because I don't think that Dunstall even marketed a bike under their name in '67 though they sold a lot of aftermarket parts specifically for Norton. When Norton came out with the Comando model Dunstall did offer a whole bike under it's name. Think Buell as related to Harley Davison. Of the eight of us that attended of our group I was the only one that owned a motorcycle! My friend Tony was a hard core fan and even though he didn't own a bike he convinced the rest of us to drive 5-6 hours to see this race because he claimed Unadilla had this unique race course that was really a cow pasture and only a race course a couple times a year. Because it wasn't a MX track most of year the texture of the course was loam instead of the hard clay of the typical MX course in So. Cal. He also claimed that this race was infamous for it's partying which sometimes included the burning of vehicles. Don't know why that attracted us other than it indicated the participants were hard core. Come Sunday morning we all woke up with extreme hangovers from drinking the local favorite " Genocy Cream Ale" to a pouring rain. Admission to this race gave us full access to the pits and we stumbled behind our MX freak while he had his program autographed by his favorite riders some of them who were in even worse shape than we were. The first race was started in pouring rain and it was the best race I ever attended. Not because it was a close race because it wasn't. Part of the course was this decent into a deep canyon but had a 180° off camber turn just before the bottom and where the riders had to ride back up the hill. This was a challenging part of the course in dry weather. In pouring rain it was near impossible. As a spectator I thought this would be a fun part of the course while most of the other spectators chose the big jumps. Well they were a little disappointed because only two riders made it back up the hill. Rodger DeCoster, a European champion and a English rider whose name I have forgotten on a 4 stroke Honda that was a modified dual sport. Rodger negotiated that hill with pure talent and the other rider with talent but also benefited from the 4 stroke powerband. I watched the rest of the field crash in the thick mud and valently try to get back up that hill from a stand still. After getting their bikes upright and getting the critical controls clear of this very adhesive mud they tried and tried but after sliding back and forth or wheelieing off the back they would inevitably fall off and they and their bikes would tumble back to the bottom. This went on for 20 minutes. Tempers rose. The bikes were so muddy and the riders so frustrated that sometimes they grabbed the wrong bike. Some pushing and shoving and helmets were removed and thrown in the mud. Some riders gave up and went off course and presumably back to the pits. Others abandoned their bikes and walked back. The other spectators who couldn't see this part of the course must have wondered what happened when the field of 20-30 riders were reduced to two and were probably disappointed. I , however thought it was great. There were a lot of riders that were somewhat arrogant teenagers. Some didn't even have a driver's license yet. I hate to admit how much satisfaction I had seeing them humbled by this hill. Think they nicknamed this part of the course the gravity cavity. They changed the course and eliminated that part for the second moto. The sun came out and we were treated to nice day of close racing but I will never forget what I witnessed at the gravity cavity. The fact that Harley had a factory team with MX bikes that weren't even close to what they marketed in USA was just a curiosity. I guess not much different than the XR750 Harley used for flat track and road races or the TZ 750 Yamaha used for road races. The adage of win on Sunday, sell on Monday obviously required a heck of a lot of imagination. I love two wheeled vehicles regardless of make. I think it has something to do with the gyroscopic effect that is noticeable only on vehicles that lean through corners. Owned a moto guzzi v7 sport where it was even more noticeable because they have a significant rotating mass perpendicular to regular gyro of the wheels. Maybe it goes back to childhood when after fixing flats om my bike I always spun the wheel while holding the axles. As far as my other posts you might be referring to making fun of the "posers" that flocked to Harley when the evolution engine came out. My apologies for those comments. Ducati had a similar popularity and the " rubbies" spent tons of money on carbon fiber this and that and one piece Denasi race suits and knee pucks that they desperately tried to scuff. And my ride? The pseudo dirt bike. The R100 GS. All can be accused of being hobbies for those trying to cure the dreaded midlife crisis but as a shovel head rider I wouldn't accuse you of that. I started and ended every ride on two miles of dirt so the GS had some practical purpose. Sorry if I offended you and would be happy with any Harley if I could afford one! Not going to proofread because won't send if I do.

[@CaptDesmo]

the VR-1000 was a killer bike... loud!!! my personal favorite.... they did make a street bike of the VR-1000 but only 34.... AMA Superbike Homologation rules stated that some had to be made for the public.... now normally that number is 500 but Harley only made 34.... 21 bike is Pascal Picotte (would have won or finished on the box if it wasn't for a stripped axle-'98 Daytona 200) 155 was Roger Reimen 8 was Gene Church 3 not sure but could be Tripp Nobels 17 was Miguel DuHamel 12 Chris Carr 10 Doug Chandler 2 Jamie James 4 Scott Russell 30 Thomas Wilson 77 Fritz Kling

[@pashakdescilly7517]

It would be interesting to do a comparison of the VR 1000 race bike and V-Rod. Rather than being a totally new bike, I suspect that the V-Rod is derived from the VR race project. Or perhaps the race project was development testing of the future V-Rod ?

[@michaelschmidt3518]

Reminds me of the Buell blast, I was stoked when I heard about it. I thought of old Brit bikes,cafe racers only to get kicked in the junk. The rep at bike show(Javits center) seemed bummed out.

[@andrewfischer8564]

im retired now but i was an electrican worked the javits every now and then. . the motorcycle show was one i was happy to work... the liquor shows too!

[@USBP1985]

Awesome video! Thanks for your effort. I'm happy my Softail Slim wasn't in there, it so nostalgic looking.

[@brianholmon4346]

The Buel on the next one Lol?

[@gerry5134]

The black Harley cafe Racer in the thumbnail . I remember as a teen I had a picture of that on my bedroom wall. I thought it was really cool !

[@nugrohonuggets]

Street 500 and 750 was poorly made in India. The quality went downhill just like KTM, Benelli, Husqvarna, and many brands that moved their productions there.

[@bobbybishop5662]

KTM and Huskys are not built in India, they along with Gas Gas are built in Austria.

[@shenpensenge]

The 125S is looking absolutely awesome !

[@DonLeist]

The 1977 Harley-Davidson XLCR was a early attempt at redesigning the Harley Sportster frame,the CR stands for Cafe Racer.The frame used on the Harley XLCR was used on the 1979 model XLH sportsters and beyond.The iron head was last produced in 1985.

[@gregwillis7767]

I've ridden both a Hummer and Vrod, and enjoyed both. But coming from 40 years of "crotch rocket" background, I recently bought an Indian Scout bobber. Double overhead cam, liquid cooled, plenty of power. I'm loving mine!

[@gregorywilliams5127]

I’m 51 now but, as a kid, I had a ‘72 Harley Davidson mini. It’s how I started riding

[@RZ350NC]

When the cafe racer came out I really looked hard at getting one but couldn't justify the expense vs. a Japanese bike. At times I wish I had gotten one, as Harley hasn't made anything like it since. One strange thing was the turn signals. There was a button on each handgrip that you had to hold down to keep it flashing. Just another way that H-D was behind the times on. Take care.

[@chrislind2]

My first motorcycle was a Harley 125 S. My uncle bought it after he returned home from the navy after WWII. He gave me a ride when I was maybe 9-10 years old so my only memory was that it was a Harley and I assumed it was a big street bike. When we moved to the country I wanted a motorcycle to ride in the fields and back roads. My dad bought my uncles bike for $100. and gave it to me. I was 14 (1964) and was kind of disappointed at what it was compared to my memory. But it ran and it was fun to ride off rode. When I turned 16 I traded it in for a new Honda S90. The dealer seemed somewhat excited about getting the Harley but did not give me much for trade in.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

I have really been baffled by Harley riders for decades who say they will only ride an "American built" motorcycle... Japan has had a Harley factory forever. And many Harley parts are sourced from various countries. It's been that way for decades.

[@georgeveneziano2754]

Great video Bart i always wanted the 1000 so cool now

[@billeudy8481]

I loved the V-Rod especially the one with the center-mounted pegs. The thing that’s always infuriated me is how Harley Davidson was has been consistently and relentlessly attacked by its customers for trying something different. Did Super Cub riders attack Honda for building the 750-four? Did Honda sport-bike riders go nuts when Honda started offering a line of cruisers? Did the Gold Wing crowd loose their collective mind when Honda decided to manufacture lawn mowers? With some companies their comes a time when they have to say to themselves; “As long as our traditional customer base continues to purchase our core-products we will continue to supply them. Nevertheless, in the meantime we intend to diversify our product line in search of additional customers.”

[@phaedrussmith1949]

The vast majority Harley riders do so to appropriate the Harley Davidson outlaw image (which pretty much jumped the shark about 30 years ago and has gradually become a parody of itself) not because they like motorcycles.

[@HarleyFirestorm]

The Vrod with the center mounted pegs and forward sport bike like handle bars was the VRSCR I had one in blue, lovely bikes I had one for a few years till a women pulled out on me and writ it off, I put it back on the road, but never felt right with it after that.

[@rickhunter6513]

The Vrod was the red headed step child of the Harley family. Die hard Harley people hated it and it didn’t really catch on to the public at large. But it was a head turner back in the day and it still is. It truly has a unique look

[@bryanashirley1327]

I have a 2006 VRSCR in orange. They called it the V-Rod Street Rod. Love the bike, it has the mid mount pegs and sits 4” higher than regular V-Rods. I also have a 2009 XR1200. Love it too.

[@DonLeist]

The 1977 XLCR,the CR stood for Cafe Racer,Btw, was a attempt at changing the Harley frame for the Sportster.The frame used on the XLCR was adapted for the sportsters of 1979 and on.

[@joshpash3015]

Great take on Harley-Davidson and not-so Harley Harleys! 💪🏽👌🏽💪🏽

[@TexasEdition]

I can't put my finger on it, but I don't know why Harley can't break away from over priced / under performaing bikes and into other competative segments and still keep the "spirit" of Harley alive. Eventually, we are going to run out of middle aged dentists and plastic surgeons as a customer base.

[@admireandinspire4525]

I love people who comment about business that don't even own a business...lol

[@TexasEdition]

@@admireandinspire4525 I love how people comment about other people and have no idea what they are talking about....lol

[@JIMBOBALOU]

Have you been living under a rock? Pan America, Nightster 975, Sportster S. Ok, they're still a bit over priced, but not under performing anymore.

[@TexasEdition]

@@JIMBOBALOU I have a 20+ year old Buell that has as good if not better engine specs than the sporty S.... it took them that long to catch up.

[@POVShotgun]

They sell well and leaves them with fat profits.

[@michaelb.42112]

Even as a kid in the 70's the XLCR Cafe Racer was THE coolest looking Harley Davidson of them all, for my kid tastes, and as an adult, I still like the look.

[@1crazypj]

One thing very few people ever remember or even know, Harley Davidson is NOT A MOTORCYCLE COMPANY. It's an acquisition and marketing company. There was a period in mid 2000's where HD could only state 'Assembled in USA' as there need to be minimum 52% parts made in USA to say' Made in USA' At the time, only 46%~48% of parts were 'made in USA' The 500 and 750 were the 'Indian' Harley s, (made in India) mainly designed for European market as a 'cheap' Harley. The VR1000 was designed due to John Brittan building a V-twin in his 'garage' for Daytona and taking on 'The Big Four' (watch the Brittan story, it's on You Tube somewhere)

[@rafaellastracom6411]

Really enjoy your videos. Keep it coming.

[@davidcisco4036]

I liked the Harley-Davidson Baja 100 when I was a Kid.

[@mlww5746]

The XA should be on your list. The X90 has one advantage over the Honda; it had a clutch and a proper gear box. I had both and much preferred the X90 to ride.

[@lizardsonofanakie]

Here in Australia Learner rides have a 650cc limit . The Street 500 was a very big seller here and still a big price tag secondhand . Very Few street 750 ever sold here . V Rods have a big Cult following in Australia .

[@G58]

I like all of them except the V-Rod which looks like something out of an intentionally bad HollyWeird superhero movie, as opposed to the usual unintentionally bad HollyWeird superhero movie. The Italian 2 strokes from the 1970s were the closest Milwaukee ever came to dragging their antiquated gift shop business model into the same century as everyone else, never mind the same decade. Thank you for sharing this list. Very entertaining.

[@paulrose6359]

The main problem with the V-Rod was the styling. Great motor, over the top cartoon cruiser look.

[@littleshopofelectrons4014]

@@paulrose6359 HD should have put that engine in a standard frame with a conventional feet-down riding position, not that cruiser chassis.