10 Micron Surgical Black Arkansas Stone?

[@steelforge08]

this is my new favorite video, everything you said lines up with the research i did. i think it was 3 years ago when i first got into straight razors i was concerned about maintaining the edge so i tried to find out what's the best hone to refresh the razor, i really got caught up in grit/micron but when i looked into natural stones it through me off that they weren't measured in grit. but researching coticules is when i really learned that stone density/hardness and the concentration of abrasive particles was more important, then the shape of the garnets in coti's, one thing lead to another and i read some articles about how the shape of the abrasives is more important than size etc. anyways i appreciate how you got it all summed up in one video and the visual aids, this is why your's is my favorite channel for honing videos

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Well, thank you very much for that nice comment. As I mentioned to Nick, I wondered if this vid might be too 'dense' . So glad to read the positive feedback on this one... Thank you.

[@flipsfan78]

Watched this video at least 5 times now. A real magnum opus. And so crucial in helping me get "it" Cheers

[@NikeaTiber]

Great video man, you bring up what should probably be the most important consideration and focus of sharpening- the results. Rather than getting caught up in the differences in abrasive particle size and geometry we should focus on the scratch pattern left in the steel and use that to quantify or compare abrasives. We can more easily factor out the human and situational variables in sharpening now. We can measure the scratch pattern left in a known steel (i.e. D2 tool steel at 59 HRC) at a calibrated level of pressure and use that to apply an arbitrarily comparable level of "grit" to different abrasives. It's all really so simple, too. The results left on the steel are all that is really important in getting a really sharp edge.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

I'll quote @bullRush 4570 here "Ultimately, I guess the whole point is, to stop looking at numbers & get your own experience....& have fun."

[@donaldmouse295]

At 38:48 you mention the Hill quarry. Is that particular stone a surgical black from Hall Pro Edge before it closed?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

I forget where that little one came from. Long gone now. But if the box in the title page photo is a clue, it's possible.

[@andergraph1]

I have a half white half black "soft Ark" sold under that name but it feels like a much, much higher grade. Not quit to the black I have but this explains a lot. I have 3 blacks and you are right. I have my favorite and that is usually the one I finish on. All the rest are in the bag for travel.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!

[@ufc990]

Great information, corroborated a lot of things I'd been suspecing. Thank you! Also, where'd you get the blue scales on that razor at the end?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you for watching snd commenting! Those scales came to me on another razor, I think…it’s been a while, lol..👍

[@minus1_0_1]

Not that you live for my approval, bro but I'd like to say that I really appreciate your content. Thank you!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Cool - thank you very much ! Happy Honing !

[@francesco2647]

you are one heck of intelligent guy kj. all i know is doesnt matter how long i hone with precious follow procedures and still cant shave the chin, ending with cuts, even if with the blade i have awesome undercut on all stages of honing, i feel everything like blade talks, shaving? places of my face go smooth as ridiculous but to chin foggeraboutit, getting a little disappointed or demoralized, but like you said in other videos it takes long to learn and i plenty agree. good job on videos. much appreciate.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you Francesco - I have trouble areas too, I handle them by changing how I stretch my skin there, and the path I use to cut the whiskers. Stick with it, go slow, pay attention, try new things one at a time. You'll get it.

[@francesco2647]

@@KeithVJohnson1 thank you Keith for the suggestion. Do you think the blade needs a rest after all the honing before shaving? Because i shave immediately after and i think is not right. in fact i noticed with all the 3 blades i have and because it takes me long time to shave as i'm learning the positions, that after a while the blade seams tired lol and less effective, unless the feel is because skin gets irritated a bit. Thank you again.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

@@francesco2647 I shave right after honing often, without issue, but do whatever you feel is right. If a razor stope cutting efficiently during a shave, it could be because the bevel wasn't set 100%, or maybe there is a burr. Or it could be just a feeling from irritated skin too. Sometimes, it takes time, to figure it all out.

[@johnbamford9946]

Great video Keith , made my brain ache at times, but I learned a lot.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

No pain, no gain! Lol, thank you for watching and commenting!

[@BullRush4570]

This information blew my mind & confirmed a few things I've experienced with Ark stones. I've been using Arks since I was a kid & despite many folks telling me Translucent Arks aren't as fine as Black Arks, I've experienced that isn't always true. I've had a few Trans Arks perform better on different edges than the Black Arks. Ultimately, I guess the whole point is, to stop looking at numbers & get your own experience....& have fun.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

100% correct, thank you for watching and commenting.

[@GOG223]

Great video. Makes everything “crystal” clear. Thanks.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

I see what you did there! Lol - great comment, thank you!

[@twhite19782012]

Educational and highly informative. I learned a great deal from this. Thanks Keith!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Awesome, thank you for watching and commenting!

[@Miroku-Tono]

Love your vids! You're an outstanding instructor/reference of info. And I want to tell ya, I greatly appreciate your effort and time. That said, Keith, by any chance, would you happen to have any honing tips or videos on honing a 10/8th's or 12/8th's razor? Have a 'novelty' razor heading to me for an anniversary gift. 12/8th's wide... Before I jack it up on a stone, was looking for any tips. Please advise.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Hello Tono-sama. The width of a razor does not matter. Most of my blades are 8/8 or so, a couple are a bit wider and I've honed few even wider than that. Honestly, they all hone just like a 6/8. The only real differences lie in getting used to the weight and balance of larger blades. That only comes with doing; there's no way to 'talk it through'. Wider blades make it seem like the stone is shorter too, so there's that. In a practical sense, honing razors is truing up the geometry - and a triangle is always just a triangle, no matter how long its hypotenuse is.

[@Miroku-Tono]

Thanks. I'll be spending some quality time honing soon...lol. BTW, I tried your Wiliams Mug shave soap after watching your cheese grader action.... Great idea. I'll apply the same method to Arko.

[@Cdub33]

Wow excellent video man. I learned a lot from watching this. Thx for putting it together.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you for watching and commenting Chris - it's always good to hear feedback like that. Happy Honing!

[@oldoutdoorsguy3238]

Great discussion, I hung on every word!! BTW, who does your nails? I have used everything from single aught steel wool to a Dremel tool with various densities, aka, grits of quik lok discs to to get a random trim on each nail and cuticles that look like fur like you have, but I wind up with nothing more than bloody finger tips after every attempt. Any help would be appreciated, I am almost down to the stubs now and still can't get that "Nails that only GoJo Orange can clean" look .......

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you for watching and commenting. I cut my nails 1x a week with a standard nail clipper, that's it.

[@nicthemickatx]

Play in the mud, people pay hundreds of dollars to bath in that shit(slurry is mud). If you got cuticles that are too long they mean you don't got your hands in the dirt enough brother. Get off the computer and do some yard work and if that isn't the problem then I'm of no help. God speed.

[@COMB0RICO]

28:50 Thanks from Texas!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Hi back from Brooklyn!

[@hosseinordoubadian5439]

Thanks. Excellent education.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

You’re welcome, and thank you for watching snd commenting!

[@grimreaper337]

Enjoyed your video . It really boils down to results I live in Arkansas, made many trips to Dan's. I have 100 year old translucent washita stained by sperm whale oil ..glows honey color in light , soft , hard, translucent, black , blue black . No two stones are alike . For example, I have a first grade 10x3x1 translucent that produces a finer edge and a 2nd grade 8x3x1 translucent that cuts steel faster . I love whetstones . Man-made or natural. Love my vitrified diamond waterstones over my naniwa resin bonded diamond waterstones. Why ? Performance. Anyway , been thinking about getting a Belgian Coticule . Do I need it ? No but I want one . Any advice?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Try one - you might like it. If not, you can always sell it.

[@grimreaper337]

@@KeithVJohnson1 I've always read that they are great . I'm 60 , and I've learned more about sharpening from my Dad and straight razor guys . Almost bought a Zulu grey once but I'm. Glad I didn't. I'm just intrigued by coticules . It's a hobby I enjoy

[@nicthemickatx]

Im right there with you it's about knowing your stone. I grew up in the arklatex and ive seen the crazy different masks novaculite wears. I got a washita that's pretty coarse in the sense it eats steel like nobody's business, but since it's novaculite and polishes no matter the density, with the right technique and a feather touch i can put a bevel and get it at what id guess is 7k(not scientifically just feel) just below the threshold of shaving but if i took the i could probably bring it to shame ready level(barely) on a piece of glass. Running steel on rocks man. I knew i could dig his videos the first time i heard Keith reference "rubbing steel on rocks"(not this video).

[@nicthemickatx]

YES! Get a coticule! If you learned to hone on things that get edges sharp sharp it'll freak you out at first becaus the edge will always get sharp but not "sharp sharp". Coticule to trans ark for about 30 min and your edge will be devine. I got a thuringian that's supposed to come in tomorrow im interested to try, I've never had one, i usually use arks because it's what i grew up with.

[@grimreaper337]

@@nicthemickatx thanks , I will . Select grade , whatever that means

[@garretti2185]

Hey Keith! I bought a washita stone a while back that looks almost exactly like the one you showed at the start. I did notice it is actually translucent when you hold a light up to it. Does this indicate it is probably on the finer side of washitas? Or is there no correlation there? I've only had experience with mine and haven't been able to find anything about it. It does definitely cut coarser than my soft ark from Dans, but Im not sure how fine washitas can get. Thanks!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

No correlation there, totally different scenario. Washita with translucency can be finer or coarser. Thank you for watching and sharing!

[@nickfanzo]

Probably my favorite video to date. This shit is a treasure. Thanks!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

I was thinking this production might come off a little too 'dense', but the comments suggest otherwise. Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@nickfanzo]

Keith V. Johnson well, I am a rock guy and I have been reading and reading this kind of stuff for years. I used to collect magazines on crystal and rocks when I was a kid, so this is just right for my taste?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Very cool !!! Thank You!

[@COMB0RICO]

36:52 Heh, I thought you were saying aluminum but with an accent.

[@jeremysmith6245]

Does lapping change the particle size or the shape? Do you recommend lapping hard arks?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Particle size doesn’t matter. Yes, lapping Arks is required business when honing razors.

[@jeremysmith6245]

What medium would you recommend to use when lapping? I have 3 brand new arks and I was wondering what grit sandpaper for soft, hard, and black? I don't have access to SIC powder at the moment. I really enjoy your videos! Very informative non biased content!

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Thank you! If you dont have SIC, then w/d paper will have to do. You will need a lot of it. 150x - 600x should cover it.

[@jeremysmith6245]

@@KeithVJohnson1 Is that 600 grit for each stone? Would you recommend leaving the soft ark at a rougher grit?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

There is no recipe, try stuff - see how it works. If you want the surface smoother, try it, compare, decide. Everyone is different, every stone is different. The only way for you to know what works best for you is to experiment.

[@COMB0RICO]

Is it only effective to use oil on Arkansas stones?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

My opinion - for the softer Arks, yes. The hardest Arks are less porous and any honing medium is ok.

[@COMB0RICO]

Very interesting! Thank you!

[@Master...deBater]

Wow...that was one helluva magic trick!!! 34:10

[@chaosreigns7386]

Hey, do you have any thoughts on the Masuta xxl sharpening/hone stone thats available on amazon...i know to try and avoid anything that i cant actually touch and inspect myself or from a reputable source...my collection of surgical black and translucent ark stones my father had left me were stolen a few days ago (along with some other things) and i have to start my collection and hobby all over again...any way, just wondering what your thoughts were if any... Thanks again brother, and as always very enlightening videos

[@KeithVJohnson1]

I would like to stay on-topic here. But If you are referring to Tsushima Black Nagura, aka - Ocean Blue - I have posted a video or two on them. Sorry to hear your Arks were stolen.

[@chaosreigns7386]

@@KeithVJohnson1 I had a feeling there was another name for that, thanks alot for the help, now i have some studying to do

[@COMB0RICO]

Why is it called surgical black?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

To suggest it is more dense than a regular black.

[@COMB0RICO]

I mean do surgical black stones have lore as being used to sharpen scaples for surgery?

[@KeithVJohnson1]

The hardest arks were sold to doctors and dentists for sharpening very fine edged instruments; both translucent and ‘surgical’ black.

[@BigMeechie304]

Awesome video! Why doesn't the abrasive industry have/use an "effective stone grit" standard? Ratings could be based off the surface finish the stone creates on steel.

[@KeithVJohnson1]

The current marketing of whetstones is, in theory, already an 'effective grit' system. Doesn't work too well though, Shapton's 1k is not the same as Naniwa's or anyone else's. Ten different guys can all hone on the same hone and 10 different edges. There really is no standard 'XYZ k edge'. Honing and sharpening is mostly skill, not microns. Things just are what they are. Accepting that is the key that opens the door. Relying on the numbers is what keeps many users locked inside.

[@bigoldgrizzly]

There are way too many assertions made by folks whose views are set in stone [forgive me that one, no more, I promise]. It has always been the case that suppliers of stone have a vested interest in making bold statements that cannot be scientifically backed up, and with developing an aura of 'mystique' around the products they strive to sell. This tends to get magnified by the buyers of their stones. That is just how marketing and business works All that really matters in the end is how an individual can achieve his goals in terms of ease of use, cutting speed and end results such as surface finish and sharpness of edge etc. by using the particular unique stones he has on his bench. To that I suppose you could add 'pleasure' or satisfaction he derives from using particular stones for their own allotted tasks. All the above include variables stacked up to the rafters, many of which can't be defined, measured or classified..... and that is before even looking at how different steels react to being cut by different stones at the micro level and another biggy, the skill set of the fella using them As well as the obligatory forum 'know it alls', some folks feel obliged to get up on their hind legs making spurious claims, desperately defending their decision to lay out big money on their stones they have bought or been lucky enough to find, while rubbishing stones that others have acquired. All too often it turns into a bit of an abrasive pissing contest. Way late to this party, but your video is like a breath of fresh air - thank you

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Well, glad you showed up, fwiw, the party is ongoing so you're not really late, delayed perhaps. Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@KeithVJohnson1 Thank you - I'll be working through your other videos - always so much more to learn. I get great pleasure in my dotage finding old, mainly natural stones, and preferably for next to nothing, and getting them back into good condition for future generations to value and enjoy. Likewise, I can't resist repairing and restoring old tools of any sort ... just so satisfying.

[@johnnyboydianno]

Well done Keith when my grandfather gave me his arks he said coarse fine Xtra fine have fun there was no particle size drama by the way killer filly

[@KeithVJohnson1]

Yep Johnny, your G'pa had it right. No b/s, just hone. Lol... Ty for noticing the Fill... have a great day!