10 Times Alex O'Connor Played the Christian (Better Than Most Christians)

[@philippevangucht7674]

I'm an atheist myself. Alex o Connor has helped me better understand Christianity than many other channels both on the internet and in real life. His presence in this online discussion is a very welcome one!

[@baselius662]

Yes he is much different from the Dawkins and Hitchens kind of atheist. Growing up watching Hitchens debates Alex reintroduced my to the possibility of God.

[@not1207]

could someone explain how point 8, argument from reason, is an argument for the existence of God?I struggle to see the link

[@philippevangucht7674]

@not1207 I see the argument as such: 1. Some people argue that our rationality, our ability to grasp the "truth" of the world, is a byproduct of evolution. 2. This suggests that this aspect of rationality has not evolved for its capacity to grasp truth, but for its survivability. 3. These reasoning steps strike a legitimate blow to our capacity to trust our own reasoning, as our reasoning would not be optimized for getting to the truth, but just to be better at staying alive. 4. This includes, ironically if I might say, evolution. Resulting in a semi-paradox, that we used reasoning to come to a conclusion that undermines our reasoning... 5. (Implied) As we believe our reasoning capacity to be sound, we have good reason to suggest that there is more to our minds than it just being the product of evolution. This conclusion does not bring you directly to the existence of God, but might imply something along the lines of a soul or something similar. Hope I was able to represent this argument well!

[@a.i.l1074]

If you want to have productive conversations with Christians, and if you want to make arguments that actually make us think, keep watching Alex. I get how good it feels to watch the New Atheist types DEMOLISH strawmen and OWN the low hanging fruit, but this is a serious topic for grown-ups so let's all treat it like one.

[@nataliamundell6266]

I'm Christian i concour Alex is harder to argue against as he plays our position closer to what it actually is The new atheists, I read all four of the horse men's books. I left just thinking they don't understand Christianity and hates God and wants to mock religion ( not very empathetic) So ironically I was more in believe after reading Dawkins, Harris, hitchins( all though I liked him better then the others) and Dennit I probably should read again to be honest So the strongest arguments are not ones that don't mock and strawman but attack our actual arguments and I prefer Alex over new atheists every day of the week

[@ericbixby]

Alex really feels like a true inbetween of theist and atheist. He actually pokes holes in both sides, unwilling to give ground to bad philosophical arguments from his own side, and feeling unconvinced by Christianity/Theism

[@CheeseMonger60]

Alex is a brilliant orator with an exceptional ability to research and prepare. He often understands his opponent’s arguments better than they do, effortlessly dismantling their points with precision and insight. His skill and intellect make him absolutely fascinating to watch.

[@shelterit]

It's because he's a proper philosopher, we're trained to give our opponents the best version of their argument, in order to be a good thinker you always have to be your own devils advocate

[@johannesdorr9590]

"When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’" (Mk 12:34) I vividly imagine Jesus giving a similar response to Alex O'Connor. If truly the hiddenness of God is the decisive part that keeps him from becoming a Christian then I believe this is for a purpose and God wants him to be in just the place he is for the time being, but eventually will reveal Himself to him in a clear and unmistakable way. Let's thank God for who Alex is and what he does and let's pray that--"God willing"--the missing part will be given and received when the time is ripe. Just imagine Alex O'Connor as kind of a new C.S. Lewis (whom he seems to know and understand very well, by the way)--what a blessing could he be to the world!

[@flyshy8806]

Or god has already shown him, but he doesn't see. like the concution jesus made many times over, if you don't want to believe then you won't believe, if you want to believe to eagerly you'll be deceived. Jordan is just way too catious, as he already understood this point from around the start of his yourny. Which does make him lose the obvious.

[@SeanusAurelius]

I've never listened to this Glen Scrivener before. He's unusually good at summing up the progress of an argument between two parties, as a third party.

[@historian9484]

I have watched Alex since he was 16.He is really seeking the truth.I pray that he will have the divine intervention that he is looking for because he worked so hard for it

[@someonesomeone25]

I really hope he doesn't fall into any such delusion or illusion.

[@lukelaws3545]

Came from Gavin Ortlund! You were a great recommendation

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Love Gavin

[@VikingrGaming-x4l]

I used to be a Christian (now an Optimistic Nihilist) and I think the sign of a true intellectual is someone who can argue all sides of a given argument with great success. If I were to convert to a religion, so to speak, it would be what Alex speaks of. Not the gnarled and corrupted attempts of Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormons, etc. maybe we should call it O'connorism. And I would have to agree that Alex is more capable of arguing the existence of the Abrahamic god than most actual Christians, it's lowkey impressive, just watch his argument for theism video. I actually liked stumbling across this video, showed me some new instances of Alex being God's Advocate.

[@bruhmoment5219]

Ive never really did research on nihilism or stuff like that, so im interested to hear, what does being an Optimistic Nihilist mean for you. im an atheist so maybe il agree with it

[@someonesomeone25]

Cool, I too went from Christian to nihilist and am much happier. Nice.

[@yourfavoritesteve]

You will know them by their fruits. Alex produces more, real fruit than a lot of Christian commentators out there. I’ve been saying for a long time now that he exemplifies Christianity better than most Christians.

[@MrPurple1221]

I was actually thinking about this earlier that Alex is a really good God advocate. When people say they don't believer in God because they can't see him it is a silly reason, and Alex (as an agnostic) likes to point that out to other non christians/non religious

[@rolan.r]

This video is great, and I was impressed by your meaningful commentary. So many Christian channels suffer from lack of substance outside of the clips they show. Keep it up!

[@frogstupiduk7987]

I love Alex for his intellectual integrity. This video was superb. I'd love to see him sit down with you, Glen.

[@acrum2457]

Alex fan here. Awesome video, made it to the end.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Bold! I like it! :)

[@ThisDonut]

Alex has done so much good to bring both sides to conversation. As an atheist, one of my greatest fears is both parties will vilify the other party to the point that conversation can no longer happen.

[@someonesomeone25]

I fear that conversation is mostly useless. How many change their minds eitherway? Preventing childhood indoctrination, making an ideology culturally and socially unpalatable, and presenting superior alternatives are more impactful, I suspect.

[@doublejay74]

Loved the content, my friend. Liked and subbed. God bless.

[@IamGrimalkin]

I think this should be a call to pray for Alex O'Connor. He is close.

[@Stephen-gn2br]

He definitely isn't close, but God is a God of miracles 🙏

[@IamGrimalkin]

@Stephen-gn2br He doesn't seem to be in as much of a state of mind to ignore miracles now though. I think that makes him close.

[@S33THEFUTURE]

Usually natural disaster will awake your supernatural interest-in help and answers.

[@MoNtYbOy101]

He’s not remotely close, he just understands Christianity better than a lot of “apologists”

[@IamGrimalkin]

@@MoNtYbOy101 I don't mean close in the sense of understanding christianity well. I wouldn't say Bart Ehrman is close for example. I mean close in the sense of not being closed-minded and being open to the supernatural. If God tommorow were to cause a clear supernatural event in his life I think he may convert on the spot. I don't think that's the case for, say, Dawkins.

[@HolyYudaria]

im a christian, i think Alex O'connor is awesome

[@xman4161]

I'm just gonna say, I really don't think anyone should be listening to Destiny. He's not seeking anything, and he's not striving toward a greater good. On top of that, I have serious doubts whether he's a good faith arguer. From my limited observation, he's most interested in being right, with everything else coming in 2nd.

[@donnyetta]

We either feel God's presence and support in our lives, or we don't. It would be arrogance to tell someone who has their prayers answered in an amazing way - that it was all just co-incidence. At the end of the day, Heavenly Father reads hearts. It is up to Him who to help further His purposes - believer or not ❤

[@g1lbert68]

😂

[@ArcherMVMaster]

I'm genuinely curious, what would you qualify as a prayer answered in an amazing way. I think it's fair to say that if one's prayers are demonstrably answered then it would qualify as good evidence. However I often find a huge flaw in this, when it comes to the type of prayer, and the rate to which these prayers are answered. I do believe that what people call answered prayers are often times coincidences because 90% of times when a specific prayer is made, it fails. But people tend to ignore that and take the 10% of the time when it works to deem it a success overall. So, to you, what counts as an answered prayer?

[@g1lbert68]

@ArcherMVMaster 😂😂😂🤣 Bro you were not supposed to say this part 😂

[@ArcherMVMaster]

@@g1lbert68lol aight I'll turn myself in to the police then 😄

[@g1lbert68]

@@ArcherMVMaster I'm guessing you're a logical person 🤣🤣. prayers is basically wishing

[@duncanmcintyre4410]

I don't like KZbin debates and videos that are about winning and scoring points. So full marks to Alex for not doing that.

[@erakus]

Alex is exactly how I imagine CS lewis during his confused athiest/agnostic time.

[@tobias4411]

No, Alex O'Connor and C.S. Lewis differ significantly in their philosophical perspectives. Alex is known as Cosmic Skeptic, an atheist who critically examines religious arguments, including those of Lewis. It would be more accurate to say that he is a mix between Sagan and Hitchens, in their approach to critical thinking and skepticism. Confused? 😂. What are you talking about? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or deities. It doesn't inherently imply confusion; rather, it reflects a different perspective on belief and evidence. Maybe your perception of confusion arises from misunderstandings about what atheism entails?

[@as_in_riders_of]

Cosmic Saint, God willing

[@dogsandyoga1743]

I think it's less of Alex channeling an "inner christian", and more the idea that he likes ideas clarified , and is genuinely curious. As an atheist myself, I often cringe when I hear bad arguments against the existence of "God".

[@kbeetles]

God willing, his curiosity takes him where he would like to be!

[@jonah9861]

You did not choose to be an atheist. You were hardwired by the same ideology which is trying to replace you.

[@jonah9861]

You were hardwired to be an atheist by the same ideology which wants to supersede you.

[@jonah9861]

You were hardwired to be an atheist by the same teaching that is trying to supplant you.

[@jonah9861]

You were hardwired to be an atheist by the same ideology which is trying to supplant you.

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

The chimney comment is good. Still operates within the framework of physicalism, but sometimes you have to use analogies in that framework to help one grasp the underlying concepts

[@matthewposton3243]

CS Lewis’ most reluctant convert seems quite appropriate for Alex

[@elijahpetty7638]

Another worthy mention is Alex's discussion with Peter Boghossian.

[@RickyNicks7]

Glen, your thoughts on balancing spiritual books that feed your soul (Tozer, Spurgeon, Bunyan, Baxter, Edwards) versus apologetic books (Aristotle, Aquinas, Chesterton, Lewis)?

[@robertguidry2168]

I know I'm not Glen, but I would encourage you to pursue apologetics in a devotional way. It will still strengthen your ability to defend the faith to questioning believers and nonbelievers, but at the same time will feed your soul. Think about how the divinity of Christ, his humanity, his historicity transforms you and His presence is with you. I find apologetic study really encouraging, that God is with me and His Spirit revitalizes my soul. Devotional and contemplative works are great as well!

[@RickyNicks7]

@ i understand but Tozer and Aristotle are a world apart and the apologetics will never nourish my soul like devotional books would.

[@robertguidry2168]

@@RickyNicks7 true, but if there is some truth in Aristotle's work that points to knowledge of who God is, I think that is something where you can see God's common grace working even if he didn't recognize Him fully.

[@RickyNicks7]

@ my problem with reading too much apologetics is this, it makes my soul lean: “He is a deduction from evidence which they consider adequate; but He remains personally unknown to the individual. “He must be,” they say, “therefore, we believe He is.” Others do not go even so far as this; they know of Him only by hearsay. …They do not know God in personal experience” -A.W. Tozer

[@RickyNicks7]

Tozer said somewhere, “People talk about God as if all He had to do was exist.”

[@non452]

I think I remember Alex once saying that he wants to be a Christian but just can’t quite get there. He didn’t exactly elaborate why but I imagine when he is around atheists he becomes more Christian because there atheist does not understand Christianity. But if he’s around a Christian that doesn’t understand science/ethics or even Christianity he becomes more like an atheist

[@HearGodsWord]

I think similar things with Tom Holland, although he's further along than Alex as he attends church services

[@Jbaggy8]

I feel like anyone speaking to Destiny just needs to repeat this phrase over and over: “your belligerent dismissiveness is not an intellectual virtue”

[@onlyeveryone2253]

He did not go into the question as he finds it boring. He knows Alex understand the ridiculousness of the argument.

[@onlyeveryone2253]

saying "The universe is God" is the same as saying "The universe is the universe". Leaves zero room for any God of religion as one of the premises are that no patterns outside of the natural law can be found

[@myjunedayya]

This is great!

[@Indorm]

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;

[@RickyMasterChiefLaw]

God is using them to plant seeds even though they themselves are not believers.

[@livingthedream8539]

I don’t particularly need any seeds but my missing limb. All god’s miracles that one we still can’t count on .

[@onlyeveryone2253]

Would you do a debate with Alex? Not just a soft ball discussion, a challenging debate where you go into depth into two or three questions.

[@tonyabrown7796]

Alex is only open to the idea of a God if that God agrees with his own standard of morality. 🙏 he comes to truth

[@livingthedream8539]

That’s why Alex is my god. Alex don’t endorse slavery and genocide .

[@tonyabrown7796]

@livingthedream8539 by what standard do you call either of those things bad?

[@livingthedream8539]

@@tonyabrown7796 Please, don’t tell me I need god to have morality as clearly my morality is not to god standards

[@tonyabrown7796]

@livingthedream8539 no, but there does need to be an ultimate authority in order for there to be absolute standards. So what standards do you base your morality on so that you could say that slavery and genocide are objectively bad?

[@livingthedream8539]

@ “but there does need to be a ultimate authority standards” No…! It don’t. Different cultures have different standards of morality. Is slavery and genocide morally bad to you?. My self preservation tells me I don’t want that to myself. I never need any god concept to act with reason to my standards of morality. If you say that morality is imposed to me by your god I have to ask you about my free will.

[@ThisDonut]

in destinys defence he wasnt mad, he just enjoys edgy gamer humor

[@onlyeveryone2253]

God being the universe is the most boring answer and removes the biblical God from the equation. So you are just saying that the universe is the universe

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

Glen sounds like he’s constantly chewing peanut butter lol

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

Sounds fine to me

[@HiHoSilvey]

Sounds like someone is beginning to need a set of hearing aids.

[@niccolopaganini1782]

​@@authenticallysuperficial9874 nah, it sounds the crunchy nutty kind to me

[@CraigBoyer086]

If you get rid of the hiddenness of God, then why do we need faith? You could then delete the entire chapter of Hebrews 11 and Jesus words to Thomas. When God chooses to keep himself hidden it is His choice, and it is ultimately for our good.

[@onionbelly_]

Atheist here, but how are you defining faith in this context? If God chose to reveal himself to you, would your faith in him go away?

[@CraigBoyer086]

@ I would define faith as trust in the Lord. I believe God rewards those who trust in Him. Those who pursue him. Those who declare a belief in the Lord will find that their belief gets tested to see if they are sincere. Ask any Christian if this is true for them. If God appeared to you before you started seeking him wouldn’t it tie your hand a bit? It would mean that there was less freedom in your free choice to follow God. Those who choose the way of Christ must believe that He is the son of God, and must believe that he died for you that you might have right standing before God. If you read Hebrews 11 it gives a list of heroes of faith past. Those who died before seeing the fulfilment of all the promise they had been given. They had all lived before Christ had made a way for them. They all understood that according to the Law they were not going to get to live with God based on any rightness that they themselves had, and yet they rested on their faith in the Goodness of God and trusted that he was both capable and wanted to fulfill all He had promised. Sorry if this is a bit too long an answer but.. :)

[@CraigBoyer086]

@ I would say that if someone chooses to put their trust in the Lord then their faith will be tested. And God wants to leave you totally free here and not tie your hands, if he appeared before you and told you that you had a choice to make then how free would you be. “For whoever would come near to God must believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him.”

[@onionbelly_]

@@CraigBoyer086 No need to apologize. I do appreciate the long answer, but I still don't see why putting your trust in a God is predicated upon him being hidden from you. All the characters mentioned in Hebrews 11 (Abel, Enoch, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, David, Samuel, etc.) had encounters and interacted (some of them even had verbal communication) with the God of the Bible in the OT. God was clearly not *hidden* from them. If God revealed himself to me before I started seeking him, I would still have the free choice _not_ to follow and worship him under libertarian free will, so I don't see how pointing to free will addresses divine hiddenness. Paul became a follower of Christ after God appeared to him in a vision according to scripture. It was the transformative vision that led to his conversion to Christianity, not because Paul chose to seek God first.

[@onionbelly_]

@@CraigBoyer086 Looks like you deleted your previous reply and posted a new one.

[@JMC5013]

Peterson is almost there. God must draw him to fully understand the relationship, the reconciliation he hasn't experienced. Alex is smart but not wise.

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

Christians DONT have to affirm the literal historicity of the Canaanite story….

[@Evan_Floyd]

Christian here, i can listen to the other atheists like dawins or Harris talk and make their points but Destiny is just so repulsive on everything, drives me crazy

[@matthewbazeley2984]

Calling Alex's philosophical objectivity "Inner Christainty" is relgious delusion and quite insulting.

[@HearGodsWord]

I'm sure he's not insulted by it.

[@matthewbazeley2984]

@HearGodsWord that's what your inner Satanist tells you 🙂

[@matthewbazeley2984]

@HearGodsWord that's what your inner Satanist tells you 🙂

[@camythomas6860]

Dear Glen, I am looking forward to watching this, but I hope you have stumbled on Alex's conversation with Fr. Gregory Pine release yesterday? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpyccmqaZ7yhoM0si=DMf2HfA53lHhsPWq I think it is evidentially clear where Alex is at in his wrestling/musings. But also, how the answersand dialogue from Fr. Pine seem to be so on point for a wrestler/muser like Alex.

[@gravitheist5431]

I've found it strange that people who say there must be a God because every effect must have a cause , then how does it follow that there is an uncaused cause ? Everything has always existed is the only logical answer , if you could prove the existence of nothing then God is possible , but once you start to define nothing it becomes something . I think the God in the bible is a metaphor, you choose which God to follow or which spirit to call forth to guide your actions , it's your choice to live in heaven or hell , there are consequences to your choices . Jordan has said God is a mode of being and not real in the sense a table is real , I don't know why he didn't say that when talking to Dawkins , they might have had a proper conversation ....maybe next time !

[@ElRepositorioHDQ]

I just think that Alex is just a good person, and by correlation it seems like a Christian by Christian point of view.

[@dmi3kno]

First!

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

You win… a video! 🎉🎉🎉

[@myjunedayya]

Lol Dawkins is ridiculous.

[@JonTonyJim]

This is not his “inner christian”. this is playing devils advocate. The harris argument is not even that hes just arguing as an emotivist

[@wakingupat2pm349]

I never realised how arrogant Dawkins is

[@HearGodsWord]

It's one of the things that turned me off him in my non-Christian days

[@ProsperityManifested11000]

Richard dawkins has debated many religious people the idea that he doesnt know what he doesnt know should probably be appiled in a miror before someone else.

[@DaChristianYute]

Rationality Rules is by far one the worst atheist Apologist and yes he is definitely an apologist but one of the worst.

[@hondotheology]

define "christian"

[@TheBaselessMountain]

atheist but great video

[@SeanusAurelius]

JBP: God isn't real like a table is real. Bible: Jesus was God and got nailed to a cross.

[@rickardarvidsson4659]

I agree, people who want to makes sense of reality are ridiculous. Let's compare fantasies instead.

[@jonah9861]

Atheism is for teenagers.

[@Hellyers]

I'm intrigued as to why you go so hard after Peterson in this, you just come across annoyed that he hasn't converted yet... rather than just accepting he is a seeker on his own journey. All this whilst praising Alex, who is another seeker on his own journey. They're both in the same boat in my opinion, but you treat them very differently for some reason.

[@jonah9861]

One is crudely honest on his seeking, the other is just a teenager masquerading intellectual vanity.

[@jonathanhagger791]

Which is which?

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

I come across as going hard after Peterson? I don't mean to. What I was trying to communicate is that Alex goes hard after a straight answer from Peterson on God and resurrection. I'm glad he goes hard and I think Peterson respects him for going hard here.

[@historian9484]

I didn’t see him going after Jordan.Jordan can be frustrating at times with his psychological explanations of things

[@FriedMetroid]

I'm a big Peterson fan. Peterson is frustrating on this topic. "Is God a conscious rational entity or the basis of a value heirarchy?" "YES!", I impotently shout at the screen

[@jonah9861]

Atheism is for teenagers.

[@dogsandyoga1743]

If that makes you feel better 😂

[@jonah9861]

Dogs & yoga.. a perfect post-womanist.

[@jonah9861]

@@dogsandyoga1743 Dogs and yoga.. a perfect feminist.

[@MoNtYbOy101]

So are fairytales that make you feel warm and fuzzy at night..

[@jonah9861]

Your demigod Dawkins is peeing his pants seeing the hell coming up to replace him.

[@montagr]

Every time you talk about Alex O’Connor I find myself deeply frustrated with your rush to forgo his input and strip his agency in favor of your self-congratulatory fantasy that he might be leaning towards belief in Christianity. You might sound polite, but this reeks.

[@HiHoSilvey]

Glen said twice that Alex makes some good points. Whether or not he is really leaning toward Christianity, time will tell. But he's thinking. He's no Dawkins.

[@livingthedream8539]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@HiHoSilveyAlex is far way from leaning toward Christianity. He is honesty Devil's advocate.

[@jonah9861]

He is just a teenager masquerading intellectual vanity. Swine cannot look up.

[@jonah9861]

Just a teenager masquerading intellectual vanity.

[@livingthedream8539]

@@jonah9861 Obviously you don’t know nothing about Alex O’Connor. Very smart young man.

[@someonesomeone25]

Its much better to be a materialist nihilist than a Christian. I hope Alex helps deconvert many.

[@jonah9861]

The adolescents laugh and mock blithely… until the hell pops up. Then the maturity comes.

[@HiHoSilvey]

Quick. Somebody turn the lights back on. It's dark in here. And depressing.

[@SeanusAurelius]

Lol at your big value judgement there, Mr Nihilist! Third word in!

[@dogsandyoga1743]

@@someonesomeone25 Eh, for some of us, it's not a choice 😋

[@someonesomeone25]

@@jonah9861 I'm not an adolescent.