Why I Converted to Christianity - Ayaan Hirsi Ali

[@CosmicSkeptic]

Get all sides of every story and be better informed at ground.news/AlexOC - subscribe for 50% off unlimited access during the holiday season.

[@1BG2007]

1 million!!!!

[@marioluigi9599]

Alex stop spamming sales crap. Thanks

[@sophiesince1995]

You are such a well-spoken gentleman, Alex. The way you conduct yourself is to be commended. ✨️

[@marioluigi9599]

​@@sophiesince1995 Yeah he's cute, but if he wants to sell us GROUND news, I think we can both agree, he'd better first GROUND the moustache

[@sophiesince1995]

​@@marioluigi9599 I really like his moustache.

[@wallay793]

Everyone clowning her for not convincing them, but shes not trying to convince anyone. She's just describing the struggles she found with her own athiest views and how she found a solution within Christianity and a belief in God. She found out there is more to us as humans than just the sum of random evolutionary processes.

[@AM_RUS]

Because everyone haven't gone though similar struggles.

[@jo-mi4966]

I wouldn't say "Just", when referring to evolution etc. It's a profound subject, the depth of we are yet to fully understand. Imagine if someone said "just", when talking of God, or religion.

[@joannware6228]

@@jo-mi4966 It doesn't compare to Christ.

[@jo-mi4966]

You can say that, but it is a meaningless statement, or at least meaningless beyond the personal meaning which it has to you.

[@bcar456]

You are talking to donkeys, agnostic is a good position but atheistic are just donkeys .

[@abdullahhussein3775]

Like Ayaan, I'm also an ex-muslim fom a sunni background, but I'm from the Middle East. Years after having left islam, i also converted to Christianity and i found enourmous peace in my heart and whom I'm.

[@jamalkhan3708]

God bless you 🙏

[@kdmckskdnfjdksnd]

Congrata abdullah. Now your name is a Child of God instead slave of allah✌️

[@JSM-bb80u]

I too am exMuslim athiest. But Christianity doesn't make sense at all for me just like Islam.

[@kgosiking4228]

Amen

[@mohamedbel657]

And why is that ? Why u switch from worshipping the creator to worship a man who got killed ??

[@TheOC1968]

Thank you for allowing Ayaan to speak, Alex. I really appreciated her honesty and vulnerability. How beautiful the feet of those who bring good news.

[@RCGWho]

Isaiah 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good things, Who proclaims salvation, Who says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”

[@riteshyeddu]

@@RCGWhocringe

[@jamalkhan3708]

Amen 🙏

[@IndonistanKeboardWarrior]

@@riteshyeddu how? it is where the line comes from and Paul quotes it again in Rome 10:15

[@anglesmcdangles3788]

@@riteshyedduJoy

[@anthonyhartnett1002]

Alex, I was recently introduced to you when Ruslan reacted to some of your content. I must say, as a Christian, I find you incredibly refreshing. Your demeanor is respectful and gentle. Your approach is curious, honest, and open. You ask thoughtful questions, wrestle with difficult passages/doctrines, and listen well to your guests. Your exchanges aren’t combative or counterproductive. You don’t mock or belittle people of faith. You highlight concerns you have in the Bible without trying to desecrate it. You’ve done your homework in this area and refuse to caricaturize followers of Jesus. You engage in important discussions and compel Christians to consider why we believe what we believe. For all of that, I thank you and appreciate your platform. 🙏

[@sk8ermGs]

🤝

[@josesbox9555]

As a dirty atheist, I like his approach too. Cheers.

[@CrowquillsCrowquillz]

He wants to believe so bad but I think he views it as a weakness... He just doesnt get it yet, in time the holy spirit will soften his heart. 🙏 ♥️

[@emilottis3119]

​@@CrowquillsCrowquillz>Crow..here's a little Self- Reflection practice for Ya > Your sentiment reflects INSECURITY.🤔😐.. (One day You'll understand Why .. ☺️🥴😉) Namastè Crow .. 🧘🏾‍♀️🧘🏼🧘🏽‍♂️

[@antoinettegabrielle3991]

She's not a Christian apologist and doesn't claim to be, so I don't know why people are so upset with her answers. Plenty of Christians struggle to confidently assert WHY they believe, doesn't mean they aren't Christians. This is her personal journey, and clearly she doesn't care what people think else she would have remained an Atheist for public clout. She is still reading the Bible for goodness sake, she can't be expected to give theologian level answers that Alex is used to coming up against

[@incertosage]

Thank you! First common sense comment I’ve seen. Some atheists are showing their true colours in this comment section.

[@Alieth]

Then why does she assert what she says to be the truth? For a person who supposedly doesnt know much about her faith shes awfully assertive of the claims she makes.

[@incertosage]

@@Alieth I would say that she’s simply comparing it with how she thought as an atheist

[@magnetiktrax]

@@incertosage irrelevant - it's like someone making claims about astrophysics when they are still reading the instructions on how to use a telescope.

[@incertosage]

@@magnetiktrax Fair, I understand the analogy but I personally wouldn’t compare making claims in astrophysics to somebody’s personal faith journey. I understand that when someone claims to have a certain religious faith, usually they’re insinuating some truth claim but with these things, it’s a more “bottom-up” process of truth seeking

[@badrock-j2y]

Hats off to Alex, such a gracious and respectful interviewer, this was a great watch.

[@opensocietyenjoyer]

he was like a nurse in a mental asylum

[@scottgodlewski306]

Agreed. He’s really good at asking revealing questions and letting fools tie their own binds.

[@tandrew651]

@@scottgodlewski306 Atheists just can't help themselves 😂

[@dominationsalpha1978]

​@@scottgodlewski306Can't agree more

[@ClaimClam]

Too bad she has become such a crazed cultist

[@Scarletpimpanel73]

Ali always struck me as an angry atheist (with good reason given her story). But I never really bought that she seriously lacked a belief in God, rather that she hated the God worshipped by the people that abused her in his name. I've had Christian friends that went through a similar arch. Abused by the church to become vocal atheists only to revert to a softer form of religion down the line. For me, I always had good experiences with religious people. They've been fantastic influences in my life. I've never been angry at god or about religion. But I just don't reckon it's true.

[@Sherlock245]

And I know other Christian who also been abuse and not revert to softer view down the line. And pls they are no such thing as soft chrisitian it's heresy that what it is soft Christian go look at kenneth Copland the rich soft pastor.

[@jeremycamacho8864]

Most atheist who convert have this revelation: There is a relation between objective truth and the human condition. It's what leads even atheists to believe in meaning. It's not, "Oh, I just don't get it... there must be some meaning in all this truth," it's, "Oh, I don't actually think 'no meaning' makes sense in a universe of truth; therefore, God is what I am missing." It's a rational and far more reasonable stance than new atheism. There is an ignorance deep in the atheist hypocrisy. It is impossible not to believe in something, so even the agnostic's claim is just another belief made with human reasoning, yet this belief actually fails to explain itself. It is no superior thought and often is simply an arrogance that undermines any rationality or ability to view the opposition as equal. God is an answer that explains itself for itself while still being just as mysterious. Even in the Bible, the nature of God is almost entirely unknowable to us, as we are made in his image but are confined to our minds. Still, the human condition serves as evidence, and the theory is just way more sound. "When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing; they then become capable of believing in anything." ― G.K. Chesterton When atheists think they're smart because of what they believe all I can do is cringe at the ignorance. It's like they just fell during their midlife crisis, never got up, and now call others to sit and wallow with them in their puddle of despair where they tell themselves everything is fine. It's literally more tied to hope and cozy acceptance than any other religion on the planet. Often the lack of respect is also staggering and full of unwise individuals, but the woke mind virus and liberal agenda mainly foster that. Jordan Peterson, while sometimes missing the point, explains the truth of the Bible in a very interesting way, full of wisdom and intelligence (He as an IQ above 150, wow!).Thank God that atheism is on a decline worldwide. Now, by this point, most atheists aren't clever or rational enough to formulate a rebuttal, and so they turn to abrasive messaging and insults in a passive-aggressive tone to prove my argument. If you don't, I respect you, and regardless, God Bless.

[@CMA418]

Yes, and my experience, religious indoctrination as a form of child abuse.

[@CMA418]

Yes, in my experience, religious indoctrination as a form of child abuse.

[@piethein9499]

Fascinating to read these comments. I found this a very respectful conversation between to people with contrary views.

[@MrMilagroqq]

I find her intellectual integrity to be ambiguous

[@josesbox9555]

@@MrMilagroqq I do too. That being said I think she’s just trying to navigate.

[@CMA418]

@@josesbox9555 I think this is a pragmatic “conversion”. I think she sees the real and growing threat of radical Islam and understands it will be mostly”Christian” soldiers that will be fighting against it and so has decided to join in with them. She can’t say this publicly, of course, and maybe she can’t even admit it to herself . And this interview, she talks about the “radical love” of God, but I guess that does not extend to woke people? Religion or no religion, our species is very susceptible to self-deception.

[@juhadexcelsior]

​@@MrMilagroqquh, why?

[@amynordyke8980]

This is a beautiful interview. Thank you, Alex O'Connor. 🤍

[@havkalash]

I greatly appreciate the gentleness and consideration that Alex displayed during this interview. As an agnostic and a US citizen, I was initially frustrated by Alex not challenging some of her narratives. But by the end of the interview it was clear that Alex's approach was the correct one.

[@johannesdorr9590]

Great conversation! I could continue listening to both of you for hours. Two loveable, highly intelligent and open-minded people meet and share their insights from the very spot they have currently come up to on their respective journeys. That's a rare and precious thing to witness.

[@joannware6228]

There's only one open-minded person, Ayaan Hirsi Ali in this video.

[@johannesdorr9590]

@@joannware6228 Why don't you think Alex is?

[@joannware6228]

@@johannesdorr9590 He did a good job interviewing Ayaan, but she is far superior to him and the other atheists. She has risen above them because she is more open-minded, humble, honest, and yearns for wisdom not just knowledge.

[@johannesdorr9590]

@@joannware6228 Of course she is superior because she has a lot more experience than he does and has already come so much further. I do think, however, that in terms of his attitude, Alex is an open-minded person, too. This is at least the impression I get from him.

[@zenon3021]

@@joannware6228 it seems to me that her beliefs are FEELS-based instead of fact-based. Which is irrational/unintelligent. You just like her because she confirms your bias :P

[@JoseVasquez-kl3ee]

Her voice is so soothing. She seems pretty humble and down to earth!

[@tariq_sharif]

Really ? So a person who believes that another person should (and will) go to hell to endure imaginable pain for eternity, becasue they do not share her faith, is "humble" and "down to earth", seriosly ?

[@JoseVasquez-kl3ee]

@@tariq_sharif it seems you havent read the bible!

[@ChibuikeUmeh-x7g]

​@tariq_sharif no body knows who would go to hell and no body says who should go to hell you are just making foolish and moronic assertions

[@CMA418]

Donald Trump literally called for the termination of the constitution and she completely omitted it. That doesn’t seem very down to earth.

[@leila4509]

Alex, I have been watching you for a while, just wanted to say you are doing a great job! Really proud of seeing your growth! Keep it up! :)

[@hdde8888]

She is a notorious liar!

[@utubepunk]

Really? Where's the push back? These are fluff interviews.

[@Baun92]

He's too nonchalant for me these days. A couple of cleverly worded questions for them to tie their own noose, but I'd like to see him get in the ring like he used to. I found it very difficult to get through this interview since almost nothing she said was challenged - and she said a LOT of stupid shit.

[@tandrew651]

@@Baun92he’s not a rude person. She’s giving personal testimony. Alex did have a good challenging conversation with a Catholic monastic recently and his conversations with apologists take a different tone

[@xanalisboa4691]

My God, what such narrow thinking!!! If man is the measure of all things, then everything will be small. Alex doesn't know what she's talking about when she talks about God!

[@connorbrown7455]

Ali represents the Christian path as an alleviation of suffering, but if you take Christianity seriously you are simply trading one form of pain for another. I was a devout Christian for twelve years, and have now been an atheist for two years. I experienced more internal suffering as a Christian than I have as an atheist. Sure, now I have bleeding holes in my narrative explanation of the world. Do I now have trouble putting together a cohesive "driving purpose" for my life? Yes. But the intense anxiety and self-hatred I felt as a Christian has abated. I no longer have to wonder why my prayers weren't answered, why "promises from God" never came to pass, and inevitably conclude that it's because I'm not good enough. Compared to those years of intense noise and torture in my soul, the quiet of atheism is like cool water on a fevered brow. There is suffering on EACH road. Anyone who tries to sell Christianity OR atheism as a painless path is not fairly representing their experience.

[@iforget6940]

Thank you for saying this. I have been browsing the comments first on like this that I saw

[@GD-Personal]

@@connorbrown7455 read the book of Job, you might understand why prayers were not answered? You do understand that Jesus is returning to renew the earth? We are not supposed to have all things in this life, we are supposed to give up this life for the sake of hope in the future with Christ… Said with love ❤️ I hope you find your way back to following the king before he returns. He loves you.

[@GD-Personal]

@@connorbrown7455 also if I may say. Why did you have such intense self hatred when following Jesus? In choosing to follow him, you have his righteousness apply to your account! You are forgiven! What a joy!!! The king LOVES you Connor!! What more could he do to show you than to suffer and die for you!? Romans 8:1 There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. What beautiful, wonderful, joyful news. It’s real Connor, go back to the loving, faithful and true King Brother!!

[@radiantblue8001]

People join Christianity, because they expect to live a 'easy life' when Christianity, was not about living an easy life. For students that want to be a doctor, an esteemed profession which rewards substantial income, people will dedicate 10 years of late nights, study and effort for it. If heaven is a life devoid of suffering and evil, of comfort and happiness ETERNALLY, then how much more would we have to struggle to attain it? The early Christian philosophers, and church fathers always emphasized that being a Christian was to crucify your desires and flesh and to carry your individual cross, just as Christ carried ours. "The path of God is a daily cross. No one has ascended into Heaven by means of ease, for we know where the the way of ease leads, and how it ends." (Saint Isaac the Syrian) In afflictions and sufferings, endurance and faith, are concealed the promised glory and recovery of celestial blessing." (St. Makarious of Egypt) That obedience is salvic which is hard and that which you like and is easy is of little value." (Elder Michael of Valaam). "Even temporary ease, pauses and self-pity have decreased and will always decrease the pace of spiritual progress." (Saint Theophan the Recluse) "Paradisial blessedness is not given to anyone who has not first suffered." (Elder Ambrose of Optina) I do thank you my brother Connor, for being honest, that being a Christian, was significantly much harder than being an atheist (which atheists seldom admit). The Bible prophesized that those who who live a life in Christ would suffer: "Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you." (1 Peter 4:12-14) As the pagan turned Christian philosopher, St. Justin Martyr (Christian who was martyred for refusing to deny Christ) once said: 'We do not seek to escape suffering.' Why do we suffer? Because longsuffering is the greatest form of love. When Christ died for His bride (the Church), he proved that His love for us was not merely theory, but implemented into action. His humiliation, at the hands of His creation, the spitting, the scourging, the insults, and the torture and his barbaric death He bore because of His love for us. For a radical love like that, suffering a minor insult is child's play compared to what He did for us. To reject a love like that, for the sake of temporal ease, and comfort, which you enjoy now, is the greatest form of betrayal and evil. It is better to of not experienced that beautiful love, in the first place, and to reject it than to of never ever experienced and reject it. God loves you brother. He sometimes won't answer our prayers for our own good. I remember the other day, I prayed to God everyday, for several months to marry a girl I liked at Church. We hung out, and she had a radiant personality. After several months of begging God, to marry her, I later learned that she was not the person she displayed herself out to be, and that she regularly mocked people in the open, and spread hurtful false, rumors about them, and asked guys out, along with their friends. I now thank God, because I was unaware of all this, and had I with my lack of omniscient knowledge, asked her out and eventually married her, I would of been miserable. I realized that God protects us from people and situations for our own good as He knows things we don't. Or if He does not answer your prayer in that moment, it's because our timing was too early, but He will answer it when the time is right. You are good enough for God, Connor. Search up the story of St. Mary of Egypt. She was a former prostitute, that slept with men, for the mere pleasure of it, and during a pilgrimage, would not even require payment as she was so addicted to lust. She partook in all this as a mere teen. Her life story is quite long, but she later found God, and lived a life of repentance for her sins, and suffered much in trying to refrain from sex to live a life as a nun, in a monastery, but after 14 years of struggle, finally defeated the passion, and through fasting, and physical labor, lived a life pleasing to God, and entered the kingdom of heaven. It goes to show, that no one is outside of the mercy of God as long as they promise to struggle in the spiritual life without giving up. Despair is a feeling brought from Satan, who wants to make us believe our efforts in pleasing God is futile, and that He will not forgive us, in order for us to give up and abandon the Christian life altogether, which He has succeeded with you. But as long as you are still living, you can renounce the works of Satan, and come back to eternal life with God. His mercy is greater than the magnitude of all the worst sins committed in the span of the entire existence of our world. Do not abandon Him, and give up, for temporal pleasure and comfort for an eternity of regret, wailing and torture in hell with the evil one, who being condemned there for eternity, wants everyone else to share the same fate as him. "The fire of eternal punishment in the afterlife is unlike fire here in this world - it being unquenchable, giving no light, and imposing suffering and dismay, eternally, for the souls of sinners in the afterlife will be immortal and thus continually be subject to unyielding, chastising punishments." -St John Chrysostom

[@thejoin4687]

@@radiantblue8001 "If heaven is a life devoid of suffering and evil, of comfort and happiness ETERNALLY, then how much more would we have to struggle to attain it?" Isn't the point that the Christ did the struggling for you?

[@nachiketkamble2600]

Love the way Alex constructs his questions and argument, it constitutes both curiosity and firmness to his core of Atheism.

[@martifingers]

I was struck by the part of being able to choose to believe. I am not convinced that Alex will never go down that path.

[@chadreilly]

@@martifingers True, Alex seems very easily charmed by a number of his guests. If he converts, just for the friends, I won't be surprised at all.

[@jhodapp]

I think see it as Alex being charmed, he’s just incredibly open to others. We should all work towards a similar perspective, Christianity or not, it would make this world a much better place to live in for all.

[@chadreilly]

@@jhodapp What a soy thing to say

[@eazyrat]

I belive he wants to but rationally he can't. Jesus as the literally son of sky daddy can never be reconciled but rationally if you don't believe in free will then believing something else is in control is rational. To experience viscerally the truth of a freewill-less reality might mean God has to exist at least as a placeholder. It is such the human experience that we feel like we have free will to me the pull to God is the pull towards giving up on this delusion. Giving up free will means giving up control entirely and that's scary. I do wonder if this experience is how Christians actually feel. Ayaan certainly doesn't explain herself this way.

[@DeepSweetSoulful]

As a recent convert to Christianity, my biggest regret was being a totally closed minded atheist who accepted the common criticisms yet never once engaged with the other perspective in an honest way. Once I began honestly searching for truth both within myself, and outside through history, logic and reason...all roads led me to GOD.

[@koenigcochran]

Weird. I had the exact opposite experience.

[@nicolasbascunan4013]

@@Arbitrary_Moniker Bad faith atheist detected:

[@DeepSweetSoulful]

@@Arbitrary_Moniker I am not referring to 'reason to live' or 'universal goodness'. Good question what I mean by 'truth'. I'm new to discussing all this and might not have the most accurate terminology but I would answer using ontological and epistemic truth. Our modern advanced sciences add coherence to the existence of God and have never disproven God. According the the Atheist doctrine I grew up in, science was supposed to clearly disprove God, but the opposite seems to be happening. Einstein came to a similar reflection. Evolutionary biology is also showing that random evolution is so improbable and illogical. The huge leaps in our DNA are now considered mathematically improbable. Also considering the existence of metaphysical phenomenon, consciousness. The law's of science say you can't have something from nothing, so who/what then created creation itself? It would require a creator. What really put me over the top was my internal truths and deeply reflecting on my life experiences. One of those pieces alone is not enough, but as I put all the pieces together, from my perspective, the logical explanation is a GOD.

[@DeepSweetSoulful]

​@@koenigcochran I'm focused on the truth of God, and a direct connection to God as a spiritual being. As opposed to Religious Institutions, or set of prescribed beliefs, practices, and dogma. I'm not defending the truths of the Churches and organized religions. I'm coming from a direct relationship with a creator and the moral code associated with living righteously. It is easy to find lies, manipulation, and incoherence in organized religions. I would encourage a personal, direct journey for those put off by organized religions. The beauty is with today's access to information we don't need our information about God, morality and truth to come from Religion.

[@DeepSweetSoulful]

@@Arbitrary_Moniker You provided a detailed response which I appreciate. But you devalued your response by leading with god of the gaps, a simple defense that doesn't reflect what I expressed, nor your response. I'm not trying to devalue your response, don't undermine an honest exchange with such a simple, dismissive argument like 'God of the gaps.'

[@JBMays]

You've been so respectful and kind in this interview, thanks Alex!

[@Kellyanne-Blueberry-Conway]

Why would he not be respectful and kind to Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Perhaps it's expected because many Christian denominations have condemned atheists or non-believers to eternal damnation? I know many of my fellow Liberals view Christian's faith as stupid, gullible and treat them with disdain.

[@Emewn]

Almost makes you wonder where that comes from...must be those dying stars and cosmic dust we're all made of I guess?

[@brydust]

Telling her that her future self will condemn other Christians who don't quite agree with her as heretics wasn't exactly respectful. The entire interview was full of polite sounding but rude under the surface questions.

[@gingercake0907]

@@Kellyanne-Blueberry-Conway Atheists condemn themselves. Jesus Christ in John 3:18says “He who believes in Him ( Jesus Christ) is NOT condemned, but he who does NOT BELIEVE is condemned ALREADY,” . Unbelievers have already condemned themselves, Jesus Christ is just going to carry out the judgement when He comes again. So Christians don’t condemn, the unbeliever causes their own condemnation. You can’t blame other people, you did it to yourself.

[@der_noa]

I don't know this woman, but my takeaway concerning her is that her positions are very susceptible to narratives, generally speaking but especially when in crisis, on 3 accounts: 1. Her being convinced of Christianity whilst in personal crisis, 2. Her voting for Hilary* because "the media" told her Trump was bad, and 3. Her voting for Trump because she fully bought into Republican propaganda

[@Pfyzer]

It's a the "easy way out" Any1 choosing Christianity than say other religions. The marketing is there "accept Jesus died for your sin = heaven = does nothing else or commit heinious atrocities if you want"

[@nathanielquinones1895]

​@@Pfyzer Oh! Not quite the explanation man. Christianity = suffer for one another to encompass the perception of Love so as to breed heaven from the Spirit (God). Christianity is one of the most selfless religious practices to date. If anyone does it differently then they're likely not Christian. Reguardless, Christianity isn't about the people, it's about Jesus. So shift your focus on Him, seek Him and I promise you'll find Truth, atheist or not, God bless.

[@nathanielquinones1895]

​​@@Pfyzer also, with the concept of sin, its a relationship proposition, not a morality meter to measure "correctness". sin is characterized by ones willingness to seperate themselves from God. Not a specific act confined to "evil", though i know the misinterpretation can happen. Evil is only a judgment of the Lord. We as humans can only begin to perceive the complexities that are human morality and would therefore run into paradoxes at the ends of our understanding. Think "I'm a good person because I do good things for people", a paradoxical claim as the definition of good is entirely confined to the subjective person, therefore nullifying any truth claim to the matter of "true" goodness. Leaving one to either accept regarding subjective morality as myth/fantasy and accepting unreliability for truth administration or admittance to the concept of an objective, interpretive morality having hold on attainable establishment within Truth. That Truth being Jesus. John 14:6.

[@Jcremo]

You should read her autobiography, Infidel.

[@ogd3thst4r93]

​@@nathanielquinones1895 bless your heart

[@hbarz1066]

Weird that she describes atheists as constantly 'fortifying' themselves against faith. Like they’re somehow constantly being tempted by religion. It's not hard to not beleive in something when there's no empirical evidence to support it. Very little effort required.

[@autisticphaglosophy7128]

So do you not believe in logic because its not empirical?

[@hbarz1066]

@ lol this one isn’t even that spicy, it’s too poorly phrased.

[@tandrew651]

New atheists do seem to work hard at refuting religious claims for some reason

[@Manas-co8wl]

I believe she's projecting. Maybe that's what she actually felt until her 'fortification' finally failed her. Conversions on both sides do happen, after all. I think it's a good reminder that not all atheists are the same and some do find it harder to.. I don't know.. resist believing in whatever they think the bible has to offer.

[@hbarz1066]

@ fair point!

[@Mahtijanis]

Alex truly is the kindest host. I wasn’t convinced by anything Ayaan said and I found her reasoning weak, yet at the same time I do feel sympathy for her. Depression and a crisis of meaning can be a mean thing, and on a personal level I’m glad she’s happy now, even if it’s due to becoming a Christian. She’s always been an inspirational figure and this development doesnt make me forget that. I wish her all the best.

[@xpsm249]

Why did anything she said not convince you? What would she had said that would have convinced you? What is your standard/level of being convinced? Is this level so high that nothing convinces you? Is this level realistic?

[@koenigcochran]

@xpsm249 I would never be convinced by the argument "believing X made me feel better." It's unrelated to the truth of the claim. If you make a claim about the nature of reality, I expect reproducible, experimental evidence of that claim. This standard is not so high that I don't believe anything. It is a realistic standard.

[@suhd1]

@@koenigcochran i don't think that was her point though. she never tried to make an argument to convince anyone. i mean she prefaced how she would leave it up to the theologians before answering Alex's question. "believing X made me feel better" was never intended as proof.

[@monishgokulsing5903]

@@suhd1 yea but he was responding to someone saying that his level is so high that nothing convinces him

[@RichardTavilla]

I was once like you till I cried out and screamed at Him that I had to know He’s real. While on my back with arms stretched out yelling I was lifted 3 inches out of my body. I know life in peace beyond all human comprehension. Evil and good now are so easy to distinguish from. It’s honestly hard for me to be in public and not just grab and shake people and tell them He’s real

[@jmNL]

Thank you both for this beautiful interview

[@Estenien]

Alex, you did a great job, you were so respectful and cautious in how you engaged. Religion gave her happiness, and it wouldn’t be right to stomp on that, no matter how much we disagree with the belief itself.

[@HUGEFLYINGWHALE]

👍🏽

[@billwalton4571]

Stiffnecked atheism is inappropriate. Everybody has an innate inclination to talk to God personally, and nobody can prove God is not real when we are mysteriously existing here in space. A big bang doesnt explain nothing.

[@user-zz3nu2xr8w]

👌🏻

[@CMA418]

No problem with anybody believing whatever they wanna believe. The problem is when they want to legislate my choices based on their beliefs(especially beliefs they cannot back up with evidence). And it seems to me that’s exactly what she wants to do. "We think ourselves possessed, or at least we boast that we are so, of Liberty of conscience on all subjects, and of the right of free inquiry and private judgment, in all cases, and yet how far are we from these exalted privileges in fact. There exists I believe throughout the whole Christian world a law which makes it blasphemy to deny or to doubt the divine inspiration of all the books of the old and new Testaments from Genesis to Revelations...in America it is not much better, even in our Massachusetts…A law was made in the latter end of the last century repealing the cruel punishments of the former laws but substituting fine and imprisonment upon all those blasphemers upon any book of the old Testament or new...I think such laws a great embarassment, great obstructions to the improvement of the human mind. Books that cannot bear examination certainly ought not to be established as divine inspiration by penal laws. The substance and essence of Christianity as I understand it is eternal and unchangeable and will bear examination forever but it has been mixed with extraneous ingredients, which I think will not bear examination and they ought to be separated." - John Adams

[@billwalton4571]

@@CMA418 Christianity respects democracy so just as youre entitled to whatever policy you want, so are we. What gets implemented depends on the majority of the population, so you have nothing to complain about.

[@sdg_777]

I thought this was a great interview. Really appreciated that you gave her an opportunity to talk freely. I thought it was thought provoking. Thanx for a great podcast Alex

[@mkq77]

@17:23… Wokeism has nothing to do with Marxism in any way, shape or form. Standing invitation to anyone, including Ayaan to quote a single sentence Marx wrote or said that in any way connects him to any aspect of Wokeism. Political correctness? You could not find a human being less politically correct than Marx.

[@collin501]

Wokeism is not Marxism per se. but it’s connected via the Frankfurt school, critical theory, which used Marxist ideas and morphed them away from economics to more social and subtle forms of “oppression”. Relies heavily on the Marxist class struggle framework. wokeism is sort of a nephew to Marx and maybe Marx would not approve of his nephew, but they’re related.

[@MrMurph73]

Her rationale for why she can support Trumps anti immigration stance, as a Christian, is not Trumps rationale for why he rejects immigrants. His attitude towards them is deeply unchristian, but she avoids that obvious truth by giving a perfectly good reason for opposing the immigration system (which Trump does not).

[@opensocietyenjoyer]

trump is in every aspect the antithesis to jesus. he cheated on all of his 3 wives. he lies all the time. he scams people. he slanders everyone he dislikes. he is racist. ...

[@levi5073]

Trump neither "rejects" immigrants nor opposes immigration. He is, and always has been, strongly opposed to "illegal" immigration, as most of the American population is. Try not to lie.

[@slobot3000]

Plus she was an asylum seeker in the Netherlands. She was escaping a forced marriage in Canada but claimed to the Dutch government that she was escaping the Somali civil war (even though she had not lived in Somalia since her childhood). Still a valid cause for asylum IMO but you'd think she'd have a bit more empathy with those seeking it in the U.S.

[@Knightfall21]

Why do atheists want it both ways; demanding Christians keep their beliefs out of govt, but also criticizing Christians for not acting out their beliefs toward the poor through government?

[@shelovinthecrew]

Trump wants immigrants out bc they’re eating the dogs and cats he’s not doing it out of some benevolent autodidactic good that those poor immigrants just don’t understand

[@daikucoffee5316]

She already answered a question JBP couldn’t: How are you?

[@spektr4625]

"what do you mean how? What about are? Who is you? What is you?"

[@okay4634]

.

[@Knytz]

Well. Its complicated

[@kelvinadu1823]

😅

[@solidsnake8008]

I don't know what you mean by the question

[@gideondavid30]

THe way she says "I choose to believe". That sounds problematic. Alec is right in that we cannot wish glass of water is spaghetti just because we want it to. We really have to have some kind of evidence to tell us to believe something. I think it comes down to the amount of evidence such as in in a criminal case. Can we reasonably come to the conclusion that there is a God based off the limited evidence there is for Him? What makes no sense is to just believe because we want there to be a god. That is strictly delusional.

[@samanthaadjaho6243]

The mystery of how the universe was made how the first human and animal was also made is not something that science can explain and even then know that. Atheists and religious people are no different they don’t have answers for everything but still choose to believe of what is logical for them. That the distinction you should make.

[@gideondavid30]

@@samanthaadjaho6243 What I am saying is that as a believer myself, I do have evidence for God. I interpret the facts of the world to reach that conclusion (in addition to personal experience). It is wrong to just believe with zero evidence. I, in fact, do believe there is evidence, and it is reasonable to believe in God. What I am pushing back against is this notion that we believe something to be true because we want it to be true. That is unhealthy and wrong. I may not like gravity, but I respect the laws of gravity enough not to jump off a bridge to prove it doesn't exist. Just because I hate gravity doesn't mean I get to choose not to believe in it. It is the same with the believe in God.

[@samanthaadjaho6243]

@ yes that right

[@ecta9604]

Quick, choose to believe that Joe Biden was president of the United States on April 23rd 2005. Can’t do it? If not, why can someone just choose to believe in god?

[@_Sloppyham]

@@samanthaadjaho6243nope! See, I don’t make claims about how life or the universe came to be (although there is strong evidence for certain processes such as evolution and the Big Bang which are NOT claims about how things came to be, just processes after the fact). Saying “I don’t know” is a perfect valid position if you do not have sufficient evidence for a claim or position. The same cannot be said for theists who believe in a specific religion, as that religion is likely to make claims about how everything came to be without evidence for it (with there likely being a lot of counter evidence). Just because science does not explain something, does not mean in any way that a religious answer is true or even worth considering.

[@muh21]

You can see inexplicable peace and calm, fully expressed by her. Thank you, Holy Spirit ❤

[@melissaminder5534]

Thank you Alex for the respect you show toward your guests. As a Christian, it is refreshing to see a thoughtful conversation that respects differing viewpoints. I can tell that you both listened and heard each other. Take care, Melissa

[@pantopia3518]

Thanks for giving me a quick way to know that it is, in fact, all politics.

[@t2nexx561]

Willful blindness huh

[@chasevl1227]

This is immense cope for some reason

[@yazan7828]

Exactly.

[@hdde8888]

She is a notorious liar!

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

And emotions

[@jpcote70]

Alex politely put her in front of her contradictions and she never saw it pass.

[@dvanaestcestica1135]

He does that with all his religious guests. Also, he lets them speak and dig their own irrational hole without interrupting much or with confrontations, and then nicely and politely asks a question that, following their irrational banter, they simply cannot answer with any coherence. Alex is exposing their intellectual void just by letting them speak, and they never even realize they had just massively shot themselves in the foot in public.

[@MrSpolaR]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@dvanaestcestica1135lmao bro what interviews have you watched with irrational banter and Alex exposing intellectual voids of religious guests?

[@tandrew651]

Alex knows when to push back and who to push back against. Ayaan's career is not about apologetics, it's more about personal testimony. From leaving Islam to coming to Christianity

[@afdave7]

I think he comment about athiests not being open to change is sadly, wrong. But its Christians that refuse to accept they may be wrong. Most athiests would gladly bend the knee, given evidence of the Creator. Ali sounds like she has spent long sessions with Peterson.

[@GospodinStanoje]

@@dvanaestcestica1135 This works with absolutely all guests, not just religious ones. Watch the interview with Dawkins. Many well-known atheists or religious people are not on such a high level of understanding of philosophy and arguments as Alex, so they cannot adequately respond, and those same arguments from Alex go unnoticed. Whether we agree or not with Dr. Craig or Mike from InspiringPhilosophy or Bart Ehrman, these are people who can "catch" every single thing that Alex deliberately and calculatedly includes in his tricky questions.

[@garyschultz425]

I’m exactly with Alex on finding this notion of ‘choosing to believe’ difficult. It seems to involve setting aside normal intellectual function. She did say she did it first with her feet. A friend told me he went to church for two years before finally starting to believe. From the outside that sounds like a course in wilful self indoctrination. If we immerse ourselves in many belief systems an air of plausibility may eventually come. I still think the way Christianity tries to identify itself as uniquely true is a bit childish.

[@DDogg43777]

Around 23:00 and a little after, she's discussing how Christianity, and the parables within it, teach this idea of evolving with the human condition. That the fundamental story is actually all about the human condition, something her original religion neglected by focusing on rules. Rules that held her down, that imprisoned her, and that ultimately ignore the human condition of sin. And while I think this is a beautiful thought process, I can't help but remark that the problems she described about her first religion were identical to what many christians have talked about with theirs. When I was much younger and a christian, everything was about rules. Breaking a rule puts a sin on your heart, on your soul, one that needs to be rectified with contrition. The worse the sin the more intense of a contrition and penance you needed. Your body is a temple, and doing these things damages and taints that temple -- a temple in which Jesus cannot enter if dirty enough, and thus one may be required to confess before undergoing the sacrament of the eucharist. My Christian faith when I was younger was one that wasn't really different than how she describes her old religion -- in fact, this was (and still is) true of a lot of people, they just didn't follow the rules and chose to break them. The difference is that one religion decided to accept many of the "issues" it threw at humans -- an acceptance that's relatively modern; while one is still struggling on that same ground. For me, as an atheist, that understanding of the "evolving human condition" is one that can be accepted without religion and a belief in god, precisely because it was those religions that held us back from evolving the human condition. That if your belief in god is really just a belief in this concept of evolution, and you are so blind to the atheists that accept that same meaning that you end up claiming them as actually being christian (like Jordan Peterson does), then you're ignoring this deeper meaning of human evolution in favor of maintaining frameworks that have been based precisely against it for so long. Instead I offer a different framework for her and people like her: Rather than focusing so intently on figuring out how to adapt, change, and evolve these religious beliefs to pull more humans into them, perhaps it's time for the human condition to instead evolve past these ancient religious concepts, understand and take what is useful for humans, and evolve and move on past them.

[@TerryMcNulty-q5d]

If any religion only focuses on sins and rules to avoid them, that religion does not acknowledge the human condition. The human condition is that we all sin. While certain denominations of Christianity likewise focus on sin and rules, Christianity itself says that God died for those sins and rose again, something we could not do. Making atheism a new religion doesn't address the human condition unless you believe people will one day evolve into being perfect. I think this is why she got a kick out of various Christians trying to woo her to their denomination. The denomination isn't what is important to her. When Jesus was born and the angels appeared to the shepherds, they didn't say, “God’s here to get you.”

[@News_n_Dine]

I love the points you raised. I also grew up under a denominate really focused on rules and laws. The fact that she placed such an emphasis on this makes me feel she could very well have been Muslim again but for the trauma it has dished to her. Chowing to believe can apply to any religion so long as the denomination fits your standing bias. I’ve seen many a Muslim who are some of the kindest souls I’ve interacted with. Many of whom find ways to reinterpret the “toxic” aspects of the Quran. We can either try and fit a square peg into a round hole or just take out the valuable bits from the round hole and go in search of a square hole for your peg.

[@bike4aday]

The problematic part of what you suggest at the end is this - "understand and take what is useful for humans". How do you discern what should be taken and what should be left? You may unknowingly leave behind the most important bits you don't recognize and instead take with you rather useless bits.

[@DDogg43777]

@ I think you're missing the surrounding context: that the religion and religious text is also part of the "human condition" and evolves with our improvements in understanding. That this is how someone like Ayaan ignores not only parts of the Bible that she doesn't like, but also ignore Christians who have had very similar experiences to her own when she was Muslim. That the bigger picture of Christianity and Jesus as part of this "evolving human condition", is really just a component of what us humans naturally do and ought to do: learn and understand the world, and self critique to improve those understandings. The process here is fundamentally inquisitive, human, and social. Not specific to Muslims or Christians. So your question: "How do you discern what should be taken and what should be left?" Is answered by using reason, empiricism, and intuition and judgement. Just as a Christian uses those to resolve interpretations of the Bible, or a Jew in interpreting the Torah, or a Muslim in interpreting the Quran, or even Ayaan in critiquing Islam and eventually pulling away from it. The way that we learn, evolve, adapt, and understand the world and ourselves, is fundamentally the human condition. And just as that condition is used to figure problems a Christian must resolve in the Bible surrounding: - Literal vs Figurative readings - Historical inconsistencies with better historical documents - How a given action pertains to modern ethical standards ...so too can that condition understand that some bits within the Bible are correct or good, while throwing away some of the crucial ideas that really would make one a Christian.

[@BringJoyNow]

The ability to express a concept like sin limited me also. Then I learned Greek basics, and now I can see that it's meaning of "missing the target" is exactly what is wrong with my life, the core of my limits, and a way more profound understanding that I faced when I was younger and the teachers were not top notch. Study books, don't hear too much videos

[@DraginEgg2]

Congrats for 1M subs Alex!

[@africash0cks]

39 mins in just after she's finnished saying she things new atheists are arrogant, she says she told Dawkins he's a 'christian but doesnt know it' becasue hes moral and all morality is from Christ... I think Ayaan ought to look back on that with abit of self reflection.

[@radiantblue8001]

Ayaan is a new Christian, so she is not equipped to represent or defend Christianity. She became a Christian less than 2 years ago. Some of the things she mentions about Christianity are not what Christians actually believe in. No one is good, including Dawkins. Dawkins himself, believes cheating is moral, and sees nothing wrong with it, and also justified pe*****. She is just being biased, because he is her friend. Atheists get wrong the idea of being 'good' or 'moral.' No one is good. Atheists don't even have an objective worldview about what makes someone 'good.' For someone to be good (in the Christian worldview), they would have to of never sinned. Sin is an immoral act, or evil committed. But because everyone in the world, has committed an immoral or bad act, no one is good. So, no atheists cannot be good people, because they are not good. Christians also, are not good, because we too, have committed sins. Our conscience, which informs us between good and bad, which was created by Christ, is the reason why, we are able to distinguish and have a common understanding of what is good or bad. So if an atheist, were to a good thing, it is a result of their conscience, which came from God. Even them, performing the good act, was because God created them. Atheists, did not create themselves, their brains or anything they possess, so they cannot boast of something that was given to them by God. The reason why our sense of good and wrong comes from God is, because if humans decided arbitrarily what was good or bad, then murder or rape would be morally good, as people have believed in before, in order to suit their own ends. When Mao killed over 70 million people in China, he believed he was doing a virtuous act for the sake of helping China. Or a person, struggling with lust, would justify cheating on their partner, with the justification, that they needed to satisfy their sexual drive. This is why, morality cannot come from humans. Because when it does, it leads to chaos. It is why it has to come from God, who is objective, meaning humans cannot say tomorrow that murdering innocent people is right because, God says it's wrong, and his objective Law does not change, unlike society's perception on what is good and bad.

[@catharina1733]

Hi Ayaan Wat mensen ook over je zeggen, ik ben blij met en voor jou dat je de vrede en Liefde van de Eeuwige ervaart. ❤

[@pietervandenadort5468]

Ik dacht al, die is toch politicus in NL geweest. Maar dus toch

[@RAVEmovies]

Been looking forward to this one!!

[@markslayton5042]

“To the atheists, it is a pity to constantly fortify yourself against faith” - Precisely the opposite, Ayaan. Many, and perhaps most, atheists in the Western World (or at least America, tried to hold on to their faith through the use of gimmicks like apologetics, but eventually lost faith due to the nature of, and understanding of, reality.

[@DA-yd2ny]

You just confirmed her statement. Thank you

[@MrJmartin05]

What reality convinced you there is no God?

[@juhadexcelsior]

Loool her exact point proven in crystal clear 4k quality

[@markslayton5042]

@@MrJmartin05 I came to understand the nature of the world, of the universe. It is not compatible with a loving creator. We cannot rule out an uninterested, or even a malevolent creator, but a caring creator is out of the question.

[@MrJmartin05]

@ your premise seems to be that no good can come from suffering. Are you sure about that? Many People who go through tremendous suffering would disagree with you.

[@moneystrb22]

She seems very flattened. It’s sad to see. She just still seems a bit gullible to needing some set life practice wrapped up in a bow.

[@Amundbjerk]

Haha, you dont know anything.

[@_Sloppyham]

@@Amundbjerk most of this interview is literally about a bad mental state she has been in and Christianity giving her a sense of purpose/peace. I would like to use the word gullible, but it’s pretty clear her reasoning was intellectual and more to do with her mental state.

[@Amundbjerk]

@@_Sloppyham Do you even know who Ayaan is? Do some research.

[@_Sloppyham]

@@Amundbjerk please make an argument instead of asserting things. If not, you’re just a waste of time.

[@Amundbjerk]

@@_Sloppyham Before dismissing her perspective as merely driven by her mental state, I’d recommend reading her works or watching her interviews. It might give you a fuller understanding of where she's coming from. Sorry if i was hurtful.

[@tonylaue3760]

Thank you for having her. I find her worth listening to. Her search is our reward.

[@gregrog2515]

I am glad she found comfort in her religion. Her deeply ignorant and underdeveloped political statements, as well as her reasoning regarding why Christianity is superior, however, reveals an abandonment of reason for (as she praises in Donald Trump) "common sense". It's all anecdotes and emotions, no analysis at all.

[@opensocietyenjoyer]

why are you glad that this evil person is comforted?

[@homemaintenance1234]

So you’re temperamentally a Leftist, we get it!

[@gregrog2515]

@homemaintenance1234 would you care to elaborate? I have never heard of "temperament" ascribed to an ideology

[@kyaxar3609]

She didn't found comfort she is a dangerous liar.

[@nicolasbascunan4013]

@@gregrog2515 temperament has an objective and measurable correlation with political bias. As an mega scientific and fact based atheist of course you knew that.

[@SaberRiryi]

This seems to come down to, she found a religion that she views as better/more moral than Islam and she was like "wow! religion can look like this? I believe!"

[@marcustulliuscicero8405]

Also christianity is definitely not more moral or better than islam

[@parlamedia]

​@@marcustulliuscicero8405 as an atheist there are vast differences between the teachings, but both can be equally harmfully used.

[@Hruebff]

@@marcustulliuscicero8405stop talking if you domt know what your talking about. Islam was spread by the sword. Affects women to this day. So dumb you have to be to say this even richard dawkins says islam is worse.

[@runarsale6116]

@@marcustulliuscicero8405 you are the only one left in the world right now thinking this. that is so 1990....

[@marcustulliuscicero8405]

@@runarsale6116 sure, if by "the world" you mean "my extremely racist internet bubble" then you are correct

[@GlenDarby-n9m]

Such a wonderfully respectful interview, so rich in content. Thank you both.

[@duncankroll8923]

It's incredible how little empathy she can have for a group she was once a very vocal part of. Not an accusation, but it smells like grifter to me.

[@karlinwilliamson9329]

Nah, I've studied 4 major religions. They all are good works based which doesn't speak of Grace as a Saving factor. They all have levels of goodness. So she couldn't get the freedom that only Christ offers, because they don't offer it.

[@davidstupak3352]

​@karlinwilliamson9329 Christianity is definitely not works based, maybe catholicism a bit though. For by grace you have been saved through faith, not of works lest anyone boast, Ephesians 2:8.

[@user-cu6ii3gv1x]

Ali use to be a member of a right wing political party in Amsterdam. The party supported taking away letting in less refugees and taking away refugee status from migrants. Ali was a political refugee. She always been right wing and frankly, all over the place with her opinions. I’m surprised to hear she voted for Hillary !

[@BringJoyNow]

Karlin, Christianity in any branch, expecially Catholicism, is grace-based...

[@karlinwilliamson9329]

@@BringJoyNow catholics have so many scarements and they put the Pope to high. It's not the same as the Protestant reform that modernized grace through faith

[@ZyroZoro]

I'm 30 minutes in and I can't take this anymore. All she talks about is politics and flowery vague stuff about love. If you're concerned about "the woke left" then there are secular libertarian types who agree with you that you could align yourself with. You don't need religion. If you are "missing love in your life" then there are plenty of communities you can find that in. She acts like Christianity has a monopoly on love. She straight up dodges Alex's question about difficult verses and says she leaves those up to theologians. She's literally ignoring all the problems she used to have with them and is outsourcing her mind instead of thinking for herself. You don't need theologians to do mental gymnastics for you. You can read it for yourself. If God has a message for you why would it require consulting a third party? Surely he'd either tell you himself or he'd make the scripture clear. She even says that you have to separate faith and reason. That might be the most ridiculous thing she said (at least in the first 30 minutes). Everything she says is void of reason, logic, and rationality. It's entirely political and about emotions. This is an extremely disappointing transformation. I met her 14 years ago and she autographed two of her books for me. Now look where she's at. If this is the only way she could cure her depression then I guess she can justify it from a pragmatic angle, but not from a truth angle. I also want to believe, but I value the truth more than feeling good.

[@chadreilly]

"outsourcing her mind" Good one!

[@Goldilocksontherocks]

I think her honest account of how she became a Christian and how she deals with difficulties within the Bible illustrate her broader transformation. She's smart enough to build an intellectual structure of arguments, and fortify her position like that. And she might be able to outsmart Alex on certain issues. However, by just being honest and by talking about her emotions she's showing life and death is not all about reasoning and winning arguments. You can't reason about taste or certain emotions. It might all sound vague and somewhat dumb, but you have to take into account she was a 'reasoning warrior' herself one day. She was perfectly able to articulate her point of view and win all kinds of debates. But it still brought her nothing substantial. She's on another path now and I think she's not gone insane, but she just found out all the clever arguments did not bring what she hoped for.

[@chadreilly]

@@Goldilocksontherocks Unlikely, recent research found the average Christian IQ is only 96.7. I think atheists like Dawkins and soy Alex are treating her with kid gloves cause they think she's so fragile, or themselves don't want to be thought of as mean. I think it's soy, but apparently it gets more views. Doesn't it Alex? Lol

[@ZyroZoro]

@@Goldilocksontherocks I'm not sure what your point is. I pretty much agree with you. She's concerned about emotions now instead of being rational, and I fundamentally disagree with that. I agree that life isn't about reasoning and winning arguments, but I'm talking about truth. If you want to figure out whether something is true then you need to be rational. Emotions have exactly zero effect on the truth. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. Something making you happy or curing your depression doesn't make it true. "Brought her nothing substantial" and "did not bring what she hoped for". I agree that being rational won't necessarily bring meaning, purpose, happiness, or love, but that's not it's purpose. The purpose of logic, rationality, and reason are to figure out what's true. They're tools. Using rationality to find fulfillment in life is like using a screwdriver instead of a shovel to dig. You should use the shovel to dig, but don't throw out the screwdriver, they both have their place.

[@Goldilocksontherocks]

@@ZyroZoro You're right about emotions not necessarily leading to the truth. However, when you love someone you might be able to support it with lots of good reasons, but fundamentally it's an emotional process. People arguing your emotions don't make sense probably won't affect your love for this person, there's something going on on a different level which gives you certainty. Ayaan has felt the love of Christ and this was the basis of her conversion. She felt this love so deep, she choose to believe all the unbelievable miracles and hard to grasp things that come with it. And however a clever Christian can still reason it's way to God, it is most likely that the fundamental factor is a feeling and not empirical data. She's dismissed all her clever thoughts because of this feeling. You can draw two different conclusions from that. 1) She's lost her way and sharp mind, and chooses this airy-fairy path for some inimitable reason. 2) She has thought Atheism trough, but it did not bring her a final solution and/or peace. While at the same time some profound emotional experience directed her to Christ. The fact that a clever person as Ayaan, with all the information and good arguments available to her, is so swept away by this love of Christ that se changes her entire way of thinking, gives something to ponder on. But I can imagine you're frustrated since the whole love/feeling/emotion aspect does not really connect to the thought structure which leads to Atheism. It's my conviction it can happen to (or is possible for) every person to go trough this transformation. That's a really strange aspect as well. Imagine you are talking like Ayaan in 2 years from now! The last thing I would like to point out is since she converted based on feelings, it's hard for her to explain it in a rational way. However, there are lots of examples of christian scientists etc. who showed there's case to made for God and/or the Bible. I think Ayaan will over time be better in giving rational arguments for her faith. Like she said, she's only finding out now reason does not conflict her faith but she has a lot to learn to defend this position in a debate. On a personal note, I'm with Ayaan. I've read many books and watched many debates. I sometimes try to defend my Christian faith with reason, since there are pretty good arguments. But the base of my belief is the same love of Christ. I can describe it as God pouring out a hot cup of love from within my chest. It might sound ridiculous but it's such a real and profound experience that I trust it with my life.

[@julieredmond5192]

This was a beautiful conversation. I enjoyed it so much. Ayaan, I am thrilled for you and pray for continuing blessings of peace, love and joy in your heart and life. I so enjoy hearing your thoughts. I admire the mind that God has given you-the ability you have to distill information, facts, perceptions. I thank God for you. Alex, you did a phenomenal job in interviewing Ayaan. Your questions were very well thought out and articulated. So thank you for the thought you put into it. I loved especially “what would you say to Christopher Hitchens”and “A younger Ayaan.” And blessings on you as well.

[@billygundum]

Alex is patient and open. Right now, I'm open, not patient.

[@alanmill793]

Ayaan has not thought through the politics of Christianity. She has correctly noted that Islam is a totalitarian political ideology, while failing to observe that all three Abrahamic religions are politically the same as you would expect as they have the same Abrahamic monotheism. They all have top-down authoritarian political structures and govern by totalitarianism. The questions for Ayaan are - Why have you merely exchanged one totalitarian political ideology for a different totalitarian political ideology? What is it you need that only Christian authoritarianism can supply for you? What utility does Christian totalitarianism supply you with that you cannot obtain elsewhere? She has not got anywhere near answering these core questions pertaining to a conversion from Islam to Christianity. But it is all politics as religion is politics by another name and having been a profession politician, Ayaan easily slips into giving a politician's answer to Alex’s questions - i.e. she evades, deflects and obfuscates with wordy emotive answers divorced from the political reality of monotheism.

[@juhadexcelsior]

Christianity does not "govern" anything as christianity is not a political ideology. On that tennant alone the whole comment falls apart.

[@LilAllygator]

In what world are atheists closed off to curiosity? Christianity stamped out my curiosity for most of my life. The answer was always “ask God when you see Him someday”, and I wasn’t able to trust other sources because if I went looking for answers elsewhere it was dangerous because Satan would try to turn me away from God. If you were led away from the faith it was because Satan got his hands on you and if you didn’t turn back to God you’d be damned. I remember being so interested in taking a course in philosophy in college but I was afraid that learning about religion from an outside perspective would lead me away from my faith, so I didn’t do it. Now that I’ve deconstructed and no longer believe I have been exploring all of my curiosities, which primarily involve studying philosophy and evolution and psychology. I genuinely don’t understand what Ayaan means. I think she’s been fed a pretty picture of Christianity, and hasn’t had the experience of growing up with this theology ingrained in her. It made me have scrupulousity (religious OCD) and I would constantly be in fear of unknowingly do something that would harm my salvation or invoking God’s wrath on me and/or my loved ones. The trauma from just trying to be the best Christian I could be will probably be with me my whole life.. and I was one of the lucky ones that didn’t have any defining traumatic experience that led me away. It was simply my realization after a lot of reflection that it just didn’t make sense, and I was just trying to hold onto it so tightly because it was a huge part of my identity.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

That's surprisingly similar to my own experience. Like uncannily. This woman is a total grifter though, imo. Her professed religious awakening and religious ideology is in direct opposition to her politics. She's got all three rw gifts going - antiwoke, maga and religion. Given her level of intelligence, it has to be a con, imo.

[@marbl5416]

I’m sorry that you went through that and didn’t feel like you could question things and seek things out for yourself. Unfortunately the church has failed at the heart of the message of the gospel and salvation. But it has also historically restricted people from understanding for themselves. Much like you, I went through a period of seeking answers for myself because I was unsatisfied. It wasn’t until I heard the message of grace that the chains fell off and I really began to understand that there was nothing we could do to make God love us any less or more. Grace is the starting point of it all. Salvation is not something that can be lost just like that. If it were, that would mean Jesus died for nothing or he’d have to keep getting crucified over and over again since humans will keep on sinning etc. I felt led to respond to you because even though I know you don’t believe in Christianity anymore, you sound like someone who genuinely just needed answers. I don’t presume to know all the answers but I know enough to know that God is real and I have seen Him do things that no human logic or reason can explain.

[@danblack5402]

What a great interview. I’ve always been impressed by Ayana’s intellect. I, like everyone else, presumably, only recently learned that she had converted to Christianity and I was over-joyed for her. Something I noticed since she converted is, she seems stronger. Less frail. Less afraid. Reinforced, even. She’s just such a presence. It’s truly amazing what Christ can do for a person who simply follows him.

[@CMA418]

The prospect of a get out of hell free card is very tempting.

[@chemistrybro_]

The "religion of reason" is near top of the list for one of the most oxymoronic things I've heard 🤷‍♂️

[@radiantblue8001]

Christianity believes in reason. It is why we believe in a God, who became God incarnate, walked among humans, and was crucified visibly for all to see, and later resurrected in the open. We believe in Christianity (faith) because of the overwhelming evidence that supports it. This is no different from atheism, as atheists believe that the world and universe existed on it's own, without evidence to prove this, requiring faith to believe that the world existed out of nothing. Albeit the only difference is, atheists require more faith to believe the universe existed out of nothing, whereas we require less faith, because we possess more evidence for Christianity being true.

[@jns8393]

​@radiantblue8001 why do theists continue to promote this falsehood. As a rule, atheists do not believe the universe came out of nothing. In fact theists believe their God made it out of nothing.

[@YorgosSimeonidis]

@@radiantblue8001When a Christian gives me a rational explanation of the holy trinity I will consider that there may be logic in Christianity. Until then everything Christians say about reason is just empty talk.

[@Muhammad-HarDick]

​@@YorgosSimeonidisthen don't talk to them, but it's hard for an atheist to do that. Cause they always insert themselves in conversation wanting attention.

[@radiantblue8001]

@@YorgosSimeonidis That's intellectual dishonesty. You do not believe in God, not because you haven't been given a explanation of the Trinity. You believe in atheism, despite there not existing any evidence that the earth existed from nothing. You rely on faith. But you cry foul, when a Christian believes in Christ, with ample evidence for His existence and resurrection. You not being able to understand the Trinity, does not have any bearing on whether God exists. That's a personal incredulity fallacy.

[@PastorMelquicedec]

Great interview! Ayaan reminds me of this man who beg jesus to heal his kid, and jesus asked him, "Do you believe?" His response helped my doubts and skepticism because he declare himself as an agnostic to jesus face😮! By responding i belive but have doubts! "Help my unbelief." You are one prayer away from believing and knowing jesus is the the life the way the truth, logos.

[@CMA418]

I would be OK with a Christian nation if Christians acted more Christlike. Unfortunately, they act more like Pharisees.

[@beansharicots]

Her gravitation towards the "anti-woke" and Trump crowd is disturbing.

[@standard-user-name]

How so ? You think Democrats are gonna prevent Islam from spilling into the void New Atheists made ?

[@sebozz2046]

what is disturbing is the left defending Islam and crazy identity politics. I used to be left leaning. It was reading Bakounine that played a big part in me becoming an atheist, but let be honest, the modern left is doing everything wrong.

[@marketbroiler24]

Christians aren’t welcome on the left. They’ve made that abundantly clear.

[@wheatstonebridge]

Lol

[@Hambone3773]

Why? There are two and only two choices. Why do you percieve wokeness to be the lesser of the two potential evils?

[@phinehas68]

On choosing to believe something is true (or not), I've always appreciated the Charles Blondin illustration for helping to understand this. Blondin was a tight-rope walker who became famous for traversing a high wire across the Niagara falls a number of times. On one occasion (so the story goes), Blondin trundled a wheelbarrow across from one side of the falls to the other. On reaching the shore and the enthusiastic crowd who had gathered to observe the spectacle, Blondin asked how many in the crowd believed he could take a man into the wheelbarrow and safely push him back across to the other side. The crowd cheered their belief. Then Blondin asked who would like to volunteer. No one stepped forward. So, did the crowd of spectators believe or not? Blondin's first question was about asking for a nod of assent to an intellectual proposition. The spectators had evidence at hand that either convinced them regarding this proposition or it did not. It would be difficult or even impossible for them (if they were being honest) to choose to believe the opposite of what the evidence had convinced them was the case. But Blondin's second question was very different as illustrated by the fact that he got a very different response. This question wasn't so much about what you believed, but about what you were willing to risk for your belief. If a volunteer were to step forward, would it necessarily be true that their level of confidence in the intellectual proposition was greater than the rest of the spectators? Perhaps. It might be the case, however, that their level of doubt was greater as well. The rest of the crowd would have no reason to break out into a cold sweat or to shiver with fear, but the man climbing into the wheelbarrow might. The *choice* to volunteer could be as much about the courage to overcome doubt as about the strength of their intellectual conviction regarding the evidence. Interestingly enough, Blondin's agent, Harry Colcord, was the only person (on record) to ever trust Blondin's skill enough to place his life in Blondin's hands, allowing the high wire artist to carry him across the Niagara on his back on at least one occasion. Imagine the sorts of things that could have gone into this *choice.* Harry had seen more evidence across a longer period of time. He knew Blondin personally in a way that allowed him to trust the person and not just the proposition. And perhaps there were even financial incentives for him to decide as he did. When someone talks about making a choice to believe something, I think it is almost always safe to assume that they are doing something akin to answering Blondin's second question rather than his first.

[@BruisedReedofTas]

I'd heard most of what you've shared about Blondin's exploits before, but the detail about his agent was a new and welcome illumination. Thank you for sharing this, would you mind sharing your source(s)?

[@auroravanessa221]

Hirsi Ali should know better! She’s seen firsthand how destructive blind faith can be. Yet here she is, becoming part of the problem!! Depression doesn’t have to lead to some hollow “spiritual awakening”; it can deepen our appreciation for reality, our passion for understanding the world as it is, and our determination to build a life based on truth, not comforting lies. What’s frustrating about Ayaans choice is how it betrays the intellectual strength she used to stand for. Instead of doubling down on reason and working through her challenges with the tools of critical thinking, she took the easy way out by running to Christianity. That’s not enlightenment; it’s surrender. For those of us who’ve faced the abyss of depression and come out stronger in our commitment to rationality, this is a slap in the face. She could have been an example of how to find meaning and strength without the crutch of religion. Instead, she’s become another story of how people cave to emotional weakness under pressure. It's regression at its core. Let this serve as a reminder that we need better secular support systems, stronger communities, and louder voices promoting reason, so others don’t follow her path of intellectual defeat.

[@auroravanessa221]

@AreigelSjtols How bold of you to assume all that! 🙄 Ahhhhh, I see. Reason is only “reasonable” when it conveniently aligns with your conclusions. Got it. And when faced with questions like "Why is there something instead of nothing?" or "Where does morality come from?", the logical step is to skip over evidence and jump straight to whatever answer feels right. Truly groundbreaking stuff! Why is there something instead of nothing?" or "Where does morality come from?" as if the lack of a definitive answer justifies religious reasoning. This is an argument from ignorance. Ahhhhh yes, clearly believing in the absence of something based on a lack of evidence is just as arbitrary as conjuring up its existence out of thin air. Totally the same thing. Let's just skip that whole burden-of-proof nonsense while we're at it 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️ But hey, if "consistent reasoning" to you means cherry-picking conclusions that fit your preferred narrative, then by all means, keep working backwards. It’s a bold strategy-just don’t confuse it with logic. /s

[@isabelarasmussen9772]

@AreigelSjtols The classic “reason only works if it agrees with me” argument. So when we tackle big, like “Why is there something instead of nothing?” the reasonable thing to do is to skip over evidence and plug in whatever fits your narrative. Brilliant approach! Why didn’t we all think of that? And of course, not believing in something because there’s not evidence for it is just as random as inventing something out of nowhere. Who the f needs pesky concepts like the burden of proof when you can just declare your conclusions as “reasonable”? That’s bloody genius, I must say 👏🏻 obviously S

[@auroravanessa221]

@AreigelSjtols No. Your attempt to frame this as a matter of mere disagreement misses the point. It’s not about simply “agreeing” or “disagreeing”; it’s about the difference between evidence-based reasoning and blind belief. When you say "proclaiming your standpoint as more correct is disingenuous," you’re not acknowledging that some standpoints are more grounded in reality than others. It’s not about a matter of opinion-it’s about truth. If your position is rooted in belief without evidence, it’s not equivalent to one based on logical reasoning or the scientific method. Dismissing the conclusions of others because they are based on reason is a refusal to engage with the actual argument. It's not disingenuous to assert that certain viewpoints, especially those backed by evidence, are more correct. What is disingenuous is pretending all views are equally valid in matters where objective truth matters. If you’re truly open to discussion, stop acting like all positions deserve equal weight without the intellectual rigor to back them up. You’re not making a neutral statement-you’re defending a stance that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[@auroravanessa221]

@AreigelSjtols Nobody here is being flippant-you're the one being flippant by throwing around vague philosophical questions to justify your unsubstantiated beliefs. I'm engaging in a serious discussion, but you're deflecting by pretending all views are equally valid when they're not. If you're going to play at being reasonable, start by actually addressing the evidence, not dodging it with empty rhetoric.

[@isabelarasmussen9772]

@AreigelSjtols Oh, my bad! I completely misunderstood. You’re not trying convert anyone - you’re just casually defending baseless beliefs with no evidence, while accusing others of being “disingenuous”. Totally makes sense. Asking for proof? Yeah, that’s just “arbitrary”. Who the bloody hell needs evidence when you can just believe whatever feels good, right? I mean, who needs proof when we can just claim everything is beyond human understanding and call it a day? That’s a brilliant reasoning! Keep up the genius work why don’t you. You’re the one being disingenuous by refusing to confront a lack of evidence behind your stance and then accusing others of dismissing you unfairly. This is not about conversion; it is about demanding logical consistency and you’ve lost the plot on that.

[@CandyCampbellRN]

I was an atheist for sometime, and then came to a point in life, where my intellect and education could not change the situation . I went to church just looking for I don’t even know what. A friend maybe. As I sat there singing some old him I never heard before, I had an overwhelming sense of coming to an impasse. I knew I had not lived a life of honor in all things. I felt guilty for the things that I had done that were not Honorable. Don’t get me wrong, I never stole anything or murdered anybody… but I burst into tears and it was very embarrassing! Afterwards, people asked me if somebody had died! I really had no idea why I burst into tears or what I was feeling. I kind woman was one of those who asked me if someone had died and when I said no, she asked to hear more and when I told her she asked “have you ever heard of the Holy Spirit?” I said yes I’ve heard of that but I don’t really know what that means.. then she asked if I had ever read the Bible. I said I knew some passages and I had read the 10 Commandments, because I actually went to Lutheran Church when I was a kid, but I couldn’t say I remembered much. She invited me to a Bible study and it was there. I learned more as I started reading the Bible. I also started reading, apologetics, and learning about the evidence for the miracles, and the resurrection. The problems in my life didn’t automatically change, but my attitude changed. I also opened up my mind to the possibility of the gospel stories, and all of the Bible stories being founded on truth. Later, when trouble came again, I cried out to God and a most amazing thing happened. I was visited by the Holy Spirit in such a profound way it really solidified my faith.

[@daniellane115]

A refreshingly polite and civil conversation.

[@jae7044]

And it accomplished absolutely nothing. "Polite and civil" isn't the be-all and end-all...

[@JNB0723]

Camus once said there are 3 responses to nihilism: 1. Physical Suicide 2. Philosophical Suicide 3. Rebellion I see which one Ali fell into.

[@gideondavid30]

What is she rebelling against?

[@sp-niemand]

​@@gideondavid30common sense

[@masonhoughton7885]

@@gideondavid30woosh

[@YaldabaothGod7]

​@@sp-niemandyou homosexual atheists need to repent and come back to Christ

[@floorsweepings666]

i disagree

[@HarpreetSingh-fm8tx]

Whilst appreciating the personal and intimate nature of this kind of interaction, I do think there should have been more scrutiny and pushback with the political elements of the discourse

[@MrMilagroqq]

There's other ways of dealing with depression and such, including therapy etc. I'm not sure finding jesus will rewire you, I find a religion with 200 different denominations to be divisive. My family members go to different churches, I think people obviously miss the point of worship. I don't find atheists showing up at my door

[@bobsdaman1632]

I can’t wait to watch this let’s go!

[@kemicalhazard8770]

The fact that your first question was "how are you doing?" makes me respect you that much more Alex

[@JordanMSeverns]

You think he did that on accident? It's a move to manipulate the audience and you fit right in

[@_Sloppyham]

@@JordanMSevernssome arm chair psychology going on here

[@kemicalhazard8770]

@@JordanMSeverns that was a pretty rude thing to say

[@JordanMSeverns]

@@_Sloppyham don't be naive

[@_Sloppyham]

@@JordanMSeverns don’t be a pseudo intellectual

[@Dreaming_Big_09]

Great guest! 31:43 it is interesting that she came to the conclusion that atheism is a barrier to curiosity. I have mostly experienced the opposite.

[@iforget6940]

The barrier she talks about is to embrace spirituality, her open-mindedness is that of christ at least thats my interpretation I would suggest you should read the comments, take a step back, and read the emotions from the theists and the atheists This is more of an expirement. I want to know if other people can also see it or is it just me and I'm delusional. Not advocating for anything just use the lens that you apply on believers onto non believers tell me what you see

[@Dreaming_Big_09]

@@iforget6940 I can appreciate that interpretation, thank you for that perspective. I shall read the other comments, I made mine when there were only 11 other commenters so not much reaction at that point. Regardless of what I find I would probably never conclude you are delusional. We all can only process the reality we live, to experience the world through others perspective is the part of life that I believe the most growth comes from, personal and societal.

[@iforget6940]

@Dreaming_Big_09 thank you for your response. i sincerely accept and appreciate it. My interpretation of the comments is that both sides of this debate seem emotionally driven a lot of the time, and they do the same thing they accuse the other side of doing. I'm not saying I'm above this emotionality, but it's just something I can see more of sense I became more agnostic I'm more willing to have my mind open to the experience of those I ridiculed but it was more out of fear than out of reason. I just want someone like yourself to give me your view of this whether it aligns or not it does not matter.

[@jessec.4947]

I was thinking this exact same thing when she said this. I am a "non-believer" but I have zero issue considering there might be something greater out there, maybe even something we would call a god. Where religious people lose me is when they start trying to take it further and pretend that they know, or their favorite book knows what God wants and that we should act accordingly. I think most "atheists" are in a similar place.

[@ryan27229]

Ditto. I don't reject the idea of potential supernatural things even though I'm an atheist. I just don't consider them candidate explanations of anything until I've got sufficient reason to. And I haven't found sufficient reason to yet.

[@themurrayslive9276]

As a Christian, I listen to Alex because of his willingness to truly listen and engage in open conversation, showing deep respect for whoever is on the other side of the table. His calm and measured delivery creates a space where ideas can grow, even in moments of disagreement. I’ve always been one of the biggest admirers of Christopher Hitchens, but what saddens me is that I never got to hear him engage in a conversation without feeling the need to debate or challenge the person he was speaking to. While his brilliance and sharp wit were undeniable, his combative style often seemed to overshadow the potential for deeper, more empathetic exchanges. I can’t help but wonder what new perspectives and meaningful connections might have emerged had he chosen to approach more conversations with curiosity and openness rather than conflict. I believe Hitchens would be both proud and annoyed at the same time. Proud because the exchange of ideas and the pursuit of truth-values he held dear-are being upheld in open and respectful dialogue. But annoyed because this approach lacks the fiery edge and relentless challenge he was so known for. It’s a paradox that captures the brilliance of Hitchens: a man who championed free thought and intellectual rigor but often through confrontation rather than collaboration. Perhaps, in the end, he’d respect the method, even if it didn’t align with his signature style. What I appreciate about Alex is that his approach feels different. His openness and respect create room for dialogue that builds bridges rather than walls, showing that even in disagreement, meaningful and transformative conversations are possible. It’s a reminder of how powerful genuine connection and mutual respect can be in shaping our understanding of the world and each other.

[@monicatorres4965]

God bless you Ayaan! Welcome to the family!

[@kyaxar3609]

🤣

[@giuoco]

58:13 she can’t even say there’s racism in America 😂 that’s how much her conservatism has rotted her brain. She wants to avoid that cause it’s overused lol… I wonder why it’s used so much Ayaan? I’m sure you can take a guess?

[@joshuabujosa5477]

Or maybe the term is legitimately overused 😂

[@giuoco]

@ then why is she bringing it up lol. She’s so afraid that she can’t even be honest, that’s how much of a hollow shell she has become. People should leave her to pray for her soul and her sins in solitude.

[@RCGWho]

Most accusations of racism are likely people blaming ant perceived ill treatment on racism when, in reality, the alleged offender is more likely hungry, generally crabby, I'll, had a bad day, pms-ing, tired etc. Unless they literally add racial slurs, it's likely they're having a personal problem that has nothing to do with racism.

[@hbarz1066]

Wild that she thinks Islam is the only one that categorizes certain things as permissible and others as not permissible. Like ma'am, have you actually read the Bible? Not to mention the fact that Islam doesn't teach original sin, which is an insane idea on its own.

[@autisticphaglosophy7128]

The latest secular liberal gay Jewish biblical scholarship has actually demonstrated there are no laws in the bible but I don't expect someone who doesn't understand not all branches of Christianity believe in original sin to be aware of mainstream academic literature.

[@hbarz1066]

@ honestly based on the way you phrase these comments I’d guess your either a bot or a nut, but sure, I’ll bite. Hot take that the Bible doesn’t have laws when there are ten of them so important that people literally carved them in stone. Also never said that all denominations of Christianity teach original sin. Just that zero denominations of Islam do.

[@fers968]

​@@hbarz1066 The original Sin only means, that when Adam And Eve committed the first Sin, every one of us would've acted the same way it could've been you or me it doesnt matter because it comes from our sinful Nature, because if there is a God he created us with free Will letting us choose good or evil, i find it quite disturbing when Alex for example wants a world that only has Good And we only capable of doing good things, that Sounds like a post apocaliptic horror to me where there is nothing but plain enjoyment there is no bravery, no virtue nothing but only enjoyment which would make us become numb very soon

[@hbarz1066]

@ The idea of a purely ‘good’ world is certainly an intriguing thought experiment. But I find it odd that you said God gives us free will, but also that “every one of us would’ve acted the same way” as Adam and Eve in their sin. On a fundamental level, I just disagree that humans are sinful by nature (or in other words, born in sin).

[@fers968]

@@hbarz1066 God is outside of Time And space if we follow the Christian doctrine, meaning he knows what we are going to do even before we do it but that doesn't mean that we don't have our own choices, God doesn't force you to do anything I can help people in need, but I can go rob a Store without God influencing me right? Now I don't want to convince you to believe in this, its your choice what I mean is I don't Think that it's a contradiction. My interpretation of the Original Sin is God showing us that we are not better than each other, thats why I believe that every human would have done the same. As for the world that would only have joy And happiness, we wouldnt know we are happy at all we would became humanoid Robots, who would want to live in a world like that? Now Atheists like to say that in Heaven wouldnt we be in that state? But through the whole Bible we see that free will in Heaven still exists you can still turn against God in Heaven

[@Agius_Jozef]

Open, transparent, honest answers from this academically brilliant mind, topped with great humility.

[@bali404]

You don’t need a religion. You just need to be part of something bigger than you

[@TrishulaDaBestBoi]

I dont really think the meaning of life has to be beyond yourself(im an existentialist)

[@prychepuryvsya]

why

[@zahubshahid7944]

It absolutely does. Otherwise you will be narcissistic

[@Jonqen]

Its not enough. Without religion nihilism is a fact

[@mentalwarfare2038]

Wait till this guy finds out what religion is

[@SohaLake]

Alex is probably the most open Atheist I've ever seen; even obtaining a degree in Theology (and Philosophy)... I was waiting for any inkling of frustration in his demeanor while Ayaan was talking about how Atheists are closing themselves off (and just not open) yet, Alex didn't flinch. SUCH an amazing, gracious, receptive person and interviewer. Bravo :)) I honestly hope for the best for Ayann, however, I feel short of breath just watching her: she is so stiff, unyielding from the neck down, and looks terrified-- a demeanor, I'm certain the host has not triggered in her here-- God I hate God..lol~

[@thesonsoflightt]

Alex has probably not met a minister that can give proper answers to his questions. If and when he does, he will not be an atheist any more. He said he does not believe in the resurrection. Answer: the resurrection is only believable when you believe in a God who is all powerful and can do all things. If one believes in a God who created all things by just speaking, he will believe that God is able to resurrect the dead. We prayed once for a woman who was going to die. She had diabetes and other sicknesses. Someone even had a dream that she was going to die. But when we went and prayed for her, she became well and today she is still living and doing well. That is the God who believe in. Can atheism offer the same?

[@Scarletpimpanel73]

There's a lot of atheists that have an open mind - some have Theology degrees (self included). They just don't often get involved in activism so you may not see them so much.

[@SohaLake]

@@Scarletpimpanel73 No doubt. Nothing better than an open minded atheist..I'm sure you are one of them, probably... I'm not even an atheist per se (more agnostic/pagan, as I've had a number of psychic/mystical experiences). But I do think they should run the world... It would be better run by a pack, a pod, a murder, a colony, or a troop of atheists :)) Hmmm what would that be called I wonder: leave in the comments lol ~

[@SohaLake]

A gaggle...?... of atheists?

[@thesonsoflightt]

@ Having a theology degree and yet be an atheist shows how seminary schools actually don’t do what they are supposed to do - train ministers to do the work of the LORD. Instead they teach human philosophy, reason, and other nonsense which have nothing to do the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever wants know Christ, his righteousness and to receive the Kingdom of Heaven must have a personal SPIRITUAL encounter with him. Otherwise, it is all a wasted human effort when it comes to theology or other religious efforts to try to connect with Christ or God.

[@xstian9147]

Well done on the show...what a time to be alive...God bless you Alex and Ayaan

[@rickjelley6347]

Thank you Ayaan, God bless you! Thank you Alex for the respectful conversation. Dialogue has not always been so between people with opposing worldviews over the last 25 years that I’ve been following.

[@juanlinde9028]

Life-long atheist here. If Christianity is true, we cannot judge difficult passages as evil. The second we do that we put ourselves as the judge of God, which is preposterous when you really think about it.

[@astrogoodvibes6164]

Interesting. Following on from your statement about judging, would it also be preposterous that the idea of judging anything, including good and evil, without an objective standard, might be deemed preposterous? Is there a need for an objective standard to judge anything? (these are earnest questions, cheers and peace).

[@juanlinde9028]

@@astrogoodvibes6164 Your questions are very interesting, but I don't understand how they follow from I said. What I'm trying to say is that there is an error in judging God by our cultural standards if God, in fact, exists. I would say that if God exists, his responses in Job 38-41 are completely justified.

[@rem7502]

Well said

[@matthewdavis6540]

Yes you can. You don't need to adopt a worldview to do an internal critique of that worldview. Christians believe in certain moral precepts and if you apply them internally to their religious texts you can draw conclusions about the inconsistency within their worldview

[@juanlinde9028]

@matthewdavis6540 My statement is a conditional. It depends on the first part to make sense.

[@Humcrush]

Alex, sir, you are incredibly compassionate and patient. It was difficult enough for me to listen from afar to this clearly broken woman abandon rationality for comfort - I don't think I could have made it through an actual conversation with her without banging my head on the nearest wall. "I've found Jesus and I'm good with Trump but it's not about politics" ???

[@grgryocean]

I’m not so sure she was ever that rational to begin with. She was an anti-Islam voice more than anything and lacked the philosophical depth of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris. I was big into New Atheism 2006-2010 and she just never clicked with me like the others for some reason and now I think I understand why.

[@Humcrush]

@@grgryocean I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard her speak. I just assumed a "former atheist" would have at least a basic grasp of reason.

[@danielmaher964]

​@Humcrush why would you think that?

[@Humcrush]

@@danielmaher964 Few people are raised to be atheists, and generally speaking, people don't "convert" to atheism for emotional reasons. I guess I should challenge that assumption, though, as clearly some people do because they feel misled or abused by whatever religion they were indoctrinated into, trading one belief for another, trying to find something that makes them feel good. This seems to be the case for Ms. Ali.

[@danielmaher964]

@@Humcrush you must live in a religious country

[@piscesfdk1020]

Ayana is my girl, very deep and inspirational. Keep on keeping on

[@gretareinarsson7461]

Wonderful interview. So good she has found her path and is feeling good about it.

[@trihagion7776]

Ayaan, you've found the pearl of great price. Joy unspeakable and full of glory. Praise God.

[@CMA418]

Then tell me, why is it so few Christians seem to possess the “peace that surpasses understanding“ and so many seem to possess the fear, bitterness, and resentment that is totally understandable? “God‘s love is abundat except toward this list of people.” I would totally be OK with a Christian nation if Christians acted more like Christ and less like Pharisees .

[@jorambannister1624]

​@CMA418 I know many, many Christians that have the peace that Christ gives. You can have it too. Christians that project fear, bitterness and resentment... are probably not Christians at all (or, are not living in the way Christ calls us to live) but are still slaves to this passing world and its desires. I don't believe in Christian nations. You cannot legislate the fruits of the spirit. The kingdom of God is within us, it primarily focuses on the inner life of the individual, which is where the pharisees went wrong, and is why Jesus called them "whitewashed tombs".

[@VeritatisQ]

She's on a journey. I thought I "found Jesus" before too, but I was just coping with life circumstances and also my subconscious wanted to try on a new outfit. It's all exciting at first, and I was obsessed with consuming Christian apologetics for a while. But in the end, it's just not the ultimate truth. Maybe it's in the same ballpark? Incredibly difficult to be doing this on such a public scale as well.

[@GD-Personal]

@@VeritatisQ are you following Jesus or no?

[@VeritatisQ]

@@GD-Personal Now? No. I thought that was obvious in the wording I used.

[@j8000]

​@GD-Personal.... How could you possibly have that takeaway?

[@GD-Personal]

@@VeritatisQ what did following Jesus mean to you when you believed you were following him? What exactly was the message you followed that you once believed to be true?

[@angusmcculloch6653]

What happened to bring your subconscious desire to your conscious mind so that you were conscious of the desire?

[@reamde_goVegan]

I really struggle every time to klick on your videos. But they are always worth it. Thx Alex!

[@FSprancho]

Already 20 minutes in and she seems to rather try and ignore the problems found within the Bible. Alex asked what she thinks about the issue of slavery and other problems now as a christian, to which she replies that she is full of curiosity now, compared to when she was an atheist. 21:10

[@Jose-ru2wf]

You're fortifying your priors like she explained a few minutes before that. She says "curiosity", you say "ignore". Notice how you're strawmanning her to protect your own preconception. No, she's not "ignoring" anything. You made that up. Ayaan nailed it when she described this new atheist attitude.

[@FSprancho]

@ are you implying that the reply to the question of slavery and other problems in the Bible were answered in full or that “curiosity” is even an answer to this?

[@MaddSpazz2000]

​@@Jose-ru2wfyou are just like her, saying a whole lot of nothing

[@NickPriore]

I wonder how she would reconcile the fact that we all come from a common organism. I think understanding evolution, REALLY understanding it (and biology), would turn her away from Christianity. We aren’t special, any other creature down the evolutionary latter had the chance to create religion, we just happened to get lucky (or unlucky!) and evolve into what we are today.

[@dmere123ify]

Those of us who spent decades deeply living Christianity and studying theology and apologetics have a different perspective. We see relatively new converts to Christianity as deceived and able to choose to believe; ignorant of the overwhelming balance of evidence showing Christianity to be a product of human minds and to be not consistent with reality.

[@ElkoJohn]

Who knows what virtue lurks in the human heart? Alex & Ayaan know. 🙏

[@UnveilingFaith]

Her move to convert to Christianity has really impacted the ex-muslim movement for the reason that Muslims now think that theism is still better than no religion. For them it's hard to grapple with the concept of trinity and a triune God.

[@kb4432]

The vast majority of westerners are Agnostic Athiests after having lost faith in Christianity. Whenever Islam is explained to them correctly, they know that it makes more sense than other religions. Indeed many have become Muslims. I have my own unique story to tell

[@Bryanwest2571]

I'm loving the setting of the interview, that's actually so cool.

[@clareashcraft3411]

Fantastic job, Alex. I don't agree with Ayaan on much, but I had a similar experience to her with Buddhism, so it's important to me that people treat her experience with respect and curiosity, as you did here, rather than badgering.

[@marcuscasavant285]

The power of forgiveness as a tool for healing within, the Christian concept that “God is Love” and that we are made in his Image. The emphasis on Love and hope. The way that Christ is the true north for men to follow as an example. The way Jesus spoke truth to power (calling out the religious leaders and money changers). He was a rebel against the status Quo, and STILL is. The transformative power that has changed individual lives for the better. The way he has appeared in people dreams. The healings. The comfort. There is so many reasons why we believe what we believe. Jesus is King!

[@brycecarlisle5749]

Kudos to Alex for conducting such a great interview. Your questions were apt, fair, probing and helpful. You have been a fantastic example, contra New Atheism, of what a good faith dialogue looks like on all these matters.

[@henningplogmacher5451]

10:58 "my fellow Atheists" Interesting wording. Very enriching Interview, as an Atheist I really appreciate her Viewpoint. All the Best to her and great Interview so far as always

[@chase7070]

So much respect to you. First atheist with such respect to the opinions of others..

[@tandrew651]

English is her second language, so just a slip of the tongue here

[@News_n_Dine]

@@chase7070there are many atheists who respect the views of others. Doesn’t mean we agree though. I respect her views as well even though I disagree with them.

[@pgbollwerk]

I’m glad she’s found happiness, but her description of atheism/atheists is completely alien to me. I’m an atheist and most of my friends are as well, and none of us are like what she describes. She also lost me when she mentioned “wokeism”. Alex has more patience than me to have conversations with people who rail against progressive values.

[@jeremiclement5723]

Are you referring to when she says that atheists think there is "no good, no evil, only blind pitiless indifference"?

[@johnstraw5390]

Yeah I don’t know why she is conflating wokeism and atheism.

[@jeremiclement5723]

​@@johnstraw5390 She doesn't. Can you timestamp where you think she does?

[@isaacmwangaza]

I have loved this interview, thank you Alex

[@DylanGeick]

She has nothing very serious to say, huh? I’m glad she’s happier now in her faith, I suppose. It makes me think that those raised with religion and later reasoned out of it will always deal with a “god shaped hole” and it’s unsurprising to me that this sometimes leads to psychological suffering. I also think following the same sample of Christ is probably better than Muhammad, I just can’t imagine being convinced to abandon my critical faculties and decide that the “first century” (which is anything but) was a magical time where the laws of the universe were suspended and written. I share some of her notes on new atheism, but I think most of us have are able to look back on that time with more nuance. So much of this sounds like someone who barely knows Christianity. As soon as she started up about “woke” and awful political takes I had to tune out. Sad regression of rationality on her part.

[@AIसंहिता]

This is hard to watch in real time see someone strip themselves of generalizable and scalable critical thinking.

[@philipmildenberger2772]

I am happy to see someone find meaning and happiness…

[@AIसंहिता]

@ if that’s the only way for her to be happy go for it, I’m talking about the pretzel twist of sentences she’s doing to justify her current beliefs.

[@philipmildenberger2772]

@ or maybe they appear to be pretzel twists because you can’t or choose not to follow her reasoning

[@AIसंहिता]

@@philipmildenberger2772 yeah you’re probably right, it just comes down to what you value as always. I personally value reasoning through information

[@mikeldurant5249]

I disagree. You can tell she is new to the faith, people don't argue themselves into faith. Because if you can be argued in you can be argued out. She seems to be dealing with an experience that negates logical explanation, and that experience aligns with Christianity. I would not ask strong questions to someone who has been a Christian for a short period of time, all the critiques atheist gives to people of faith are old, and there are no real new arguments just repackaged. So it's better to speak to someone who deals with these often. Over time she will likely have stronger reasonings for her faith.

[@craigjohnson134]

a deeply profound and emotional experience overrides all reasoning.

[@afdave7]

Well said.

[@algorithm007ify]

as stated by an emotional being.

[@parak00pa]

The question that remains is, what do you trust, ultimately? That which you can't explain but cannot deny, or that which you can explain, but leads you to deny anything that you cannot? It all comes down to is there something rather than nothing.

[@afdave7]

@parak00pa well said. I appreciate and will continue thinking about this. Cheers.

[@geo.ies93]

Search and you will find, my friend. That’s a promise from God. God bless you all!

[@PastorOunanian]

It is extraordinary! I agree! The truth will set you free!

[@rakusoverthecoals861]

I still can't get over the fundamental dishonesty at the core of the statement: "I Choose to believe." Either you have been convinced by the evidence/argument or you're deluding yourself. I have a deep-seated reservation about the long-term stability of that kind of mental gymnastics on a person's mind.

[@jeffreysoboe]

Being a Christian is much more than assenting to an intellectual argument. That's why she talked so much about how it was so personal and spiritual for her. Even the devil, according to Christians, believe in Jesus, but he does not follow him and put his faith in him.

[@briansmith3791]

We have observable evidence for one universe which appears fine-tuned for Life. Why it appears so, is unknown. A creator or a multiverse? It's a choice.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

Same. She's a con imo. A liar.

[@robertraab]

@@briansmith3791 Appears fine-tuned for life... The fuck you talking about?

[@mattwhite399]

@@briansmith3791the universe is not fine tuned for life. If anything, it is fine tuned for stars or maybe black holes. There are more galaxies in the observable universe than grains of sand on the earth. Additionally, it’s intellectually dishonest and special pleading to argue that the universe itself requires a “Fine Tuner,” but the “Fine Tuner” is inherently fine tuned.

[@markslayton5042]

If you don’t think that the Christian god is a god of punishment, you don’t understand Christianity.

[@mikeldurant5249]

Very true, God can't be "God" without punishment. Or he could be, and just be an absent creator

[@Hruebff]

@@mikeldurant5249so god cant punish his own creation? Hes more of a god of love. He died for us so that he could live with us not above us. Terrible statement here. More reasearch needs to be done

[@Hruebff]

God came and died for us yet he is a god of punishment. Even you who disrespects god rn would be forgiven by him in an instant. Thats how much he loves you. Yet hes a god of punishment. Terrible point

[@onestepaway3232]

How so? God is Holy and Just does that bother you? If so why?

[@mikeldurant5249]

@@Hruebff God can't be just without punishment. You can't claim a criminal justice system is "just" or "fair" if criminals get off scot-free. So yes if God never punished he wouldn't be just or he would simply be absent.

[@koenigcochran]

I suppose this conversation was inevitable, and it went pretty much how I expected: "I choose to believe.. I'm not going to prove..." You can't choose what you believe, and you're not going to prove your claims because you *can't*.

[@angelamwirigi1765]

Loved this conversation, thank you to Ayan and Alex ❤