10 Worst NAR Leaders - #10 Peter Wagner

The late Dr. Peter Wagner is considered to be the theologian-scholar of the New Apostolic Reformation. In this video, I do a brief survey of Dr. Wagner's theology and then I provide definitions and uses of the term "apostle" in the New Testament.
Andreas Wiget's Channel:
/ @andreaswiget
What is the New Apostolic Reformation?
• What is the New Aposto...
My Instagram:
/ politeleader
My Twitter:
/ politeleader123

[@JustinPetersMin]

Great job on these videos brother!

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you so much, Pastor Peters. I truly appreciate it. I'm always uplifted by your words.

[@angelbarajas9180]

Hi

[@williamshakespeare9105]

My understanding from reading God's Word is that God's choice for the apostle who lost his place was already made through casting out the lots!!! NAR might want to bring Judas the betrayer back???

[@starwarsfan7093]

@@PoliteLeader Hi I commented last week on a different channel someone said Jesus isn't the Christ I said over and over Jesus is God and gave verses that shows Jesus is the Christ no interaction that I know of I don't remember what they said about the verses for some reason the person commented John 17. I posted twice 1 John were it says if we don't believe that Jesus is the Christ we don't have the Father what do you think?

[@ashqelon7267]

@c n b He is like 99% on YT doing this same thing. Nothin but Wolves exposing Wolves , yet like you say, his theological basis is just as filthy WICKED. He agrees w mcarther, Sproul guy, chan, washer young, comfort, all those filthy devils another blasphemous witchcraft philosophies they the old reformers all chimed, like spurngon guy, Tozer, westlians. They ALL teach “another gospel another jesus” . See he is of the same fallen spirit they all are for the last 500 years. NOINE of them are half way right in their assumptions on theology. These devils I pointed to are theologically as perverted in their Gnostic “dual nature” logic they al teach and Don’t really realize what they are doing! Amazing but TRUE! that guy here, absolutely is leavened LUMP everything ALL then do think like the same as his cohorts.. It is WHY the 95% YT sect and USA churchianity is so so filled w SIN on every level every point EVRY aspect, but they all CHIME “I’m Holy” I got the “good doctrines theologies, “I’m supporting so & so here or there etc. It’s ALL headed form the same place! The LAKE of FIRE! They are Nothing but another version of the damned “Personality CULT Click club” , nothing more. This guys Junk is as filthy was Andrew Womacks twisted man mad logic. Look at their sources, Calvin, Lucer, MURDERERS and everything they DO is nothin but catholic in spirit with Low Level HIDDEN reality Under their FACADE. He won’t answer ANYONE , he’s above reproach like they ALL are, once MAMMON & POWER & CONTROL and momentum fuels their earthly and ONLY kingdom they will ever know.

[@godslovehasnobounds6376]

"You only lay a foundation one time" never heard it said that way before. Brilliant video and easy to understand. Thanks Polite Leader 👍

[@PoliteLeader]

Glad it was helpful!

[@susanvandermerwe4679]

Or Justin Peters?

[@marlenereimchen9141]

I remember back in the 90s when our pastor went to a conference and Peter Wagner was the keynote speaker. I also think it was at the Toronto Airport where he said God did a radical transformation in his life. Well after that the church changed in many ways. I just followed right along because I was taught to submit to our leader and not to "touch God's anointing." It only took about 23 years but God opened our eyes and I have not stepped in another NAR church since.

[@davidschefter4160]

Please pray for my brother who has been in this shepherding/ nar movememt for over 40 years. I'm so glad God opened your eyes, to God be the glory.

[@andrewcreek3846]

C. Peter Wagner was the man who presided over Todd Bentley's "commissioning" in Lakeland in 2008. Enough said.

[@yafois988]

@Indigator Veritatis ALL top 1500 pulpit leaders are DOGS! All of them ARE. They worked the system like a industry for decades in modern USA times. Turning it into a abomination of witchcraft dispensary. I Know I used to be around “them” see the problem IS ppl like this channel laud these filthy wicked ppl claiming they are of God but are anything but from a Holy creator . Nothing they do withstands examination NOTHING. They ALL act like they are of God above because they have following. See what these devils do is persuade ppl that they heard form God but have NOT. Copy~PASTE other DOGS filthy sorcery phrases then act like they ALL ARE ON Gods Personal channel voice-wavelength tune. Its a SCAM con job. I Pointed it all out decades ago. Its all a Facade Like I pointed out Hal ADULTERY Lindsey' satanic rapture book series, that completely FAILED, BUT John hagee and TBN STOMPED me into the dirt because don’t like the bastards they ALL ARE, like all pulpit devils do today, still do against ANY truths. Like YT ppl, this guy DOES too. STOMP ignor Malign twist then creates 100 MORE videos and distract ppl from the core issue like CNN does. It’s ALL A GAME of manipulate to CONTROL , gain power, gain earthly territorial rights. DEMONIC on nature! Look at the colossal financial and disaster Rick warren did to you ppl in churchianity. 99% of you swallowed his witchcraft lIES that he had polished so so so much and you ppl bought it. And how did he do IT? From the pulpits and his cohort devil possessed buddies all colluded and persuaded you ppl together. and them dumped you heads FULL of the satanic lIes you masses couldn’t tell what was what. systematically over time then your DULL minds fell for it and bought it followed id. Because you ppl in mass do NOT think for yourselfs at all, and have itching ears. So by virtue of volumes you ppl made satanic lIES the new real truth and it still rings In you ppl's minds this exact same dynamic LIES system. And the demonic realm uses ppl like warren or finny or spurgeon or tower that their faulty logic to persuade ppl they are the golden egg wisdom of salvation principles and prophetic events. When NOTHING any of these men and their great ones “ famous reputations, are correct at all. And very erroneous in theological principles. Go around ANY church leadership and get butchered UP by them because they are fighting in satans earthly realm principles to gain POWER CONTROL MAMMON, using Their damned gods. NONE of these great ones of supposed valor heritage are half as wise or biblically correct of ppl Think so. Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

[@kickpublishing]

Wagner literally looked like a Satanist - how people fell for this guy amazes me.

[@yafois988]

@@kickpublishing The Real prophets warned believer of the wolves that lookalike innocent persuasive sweeps. They have the facade of a sheep holy guy but the inner deeds intentions of a devouring wolf. See what has destroyed ppl’s soul is that they subtly use the right looking things with just-t enough lie POISON inside it to be persuasive. Then over time an entire whole NEW system theology becomes the real thing ppl follow. Galatians 1:7-9 ‘another gospel another jesus. hasatan never comes like his real self. The prophets say the devils comes as a minister of light”. the darker LIGHT. a complete face facade system of lethal toxic lies. the 'appearance of a minister of light. This is why we have the bible to compare ad the Holy spirit to compare and WARN out mind -soul-spirit -heart something is WAYY WRONG.

[@randyosgood4729]

I thought he looked familiar.

[@juliemayes2027]

Wagner has a lot to answer for I truly hope he repented before he died because the church is far worse off because of him and his heretical teachings

[@Andeezy04]

So true.

[@JewandGreek]

Wagner affirmed all of the essentials. You might disagree with him on charismatic stuff but that doesn't make him a heretic any more than John MacArthur is a heretic for teaching Limited Atonement.

[@edanthony4131]

I attended a church growth conference in 1983, I was a "lay evangelist" just starting (Maybe a year) in the ministry. I could not understand what he was doing there, unless it was to get saved. I was soundly scolded by many older men in the ministry for saying stuff like that in public. I made up my mind that I would never shut up about hearsay and I stood by that for over 37 years. Never deny the inerrancy of scripture...

[@valeriemckenna4590]

No more apostle Paul was the last one

[@kennystrawnmusic]

Another countdown - this is always fun.

[@freedomhawk772]

Great job on exposing this heresy, known as new apostolic reformation! Keep fighting the good fight.

[@Baba_Wawa]

God bless you brother Allen! Thank you for the quality content. Your trustworthy observations are biblically based & sound. I’m very thankful for your work as someone who came out of the NAR & hyper charismatic movements. I love your Berean mentality & they kind & loving nature of your apologetics. I count your channel as a blessing & always look forward to your new content!

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you! I greatly appreciate the encouraging words!

[@SirNunKakes]

Have you ever thought of doing theological lyric breakdowns on contemporary Christian music???? It would be a great help to many!

[@motorTranz]

Thanks for the heads up Leader. I learn something new every day.

[@timsharpe6652]

Aah..the founder of the NAR . Didn't think this would be last on the list though !! Love you brother 😊

[@SyntheToonz]

Right. He taught (spawned) all the rest. As the source I'd put him at #1.

[@timsharpe6652]

@@SyntheToonz maybe he was last because he is no longer alive.. That was my afterthought..

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you, Tim! Much love back, brother.

[@Dj.D25]

Looking forward to the list. NAR has some of the weirdest teachers around. The amount of nonsense they teach should insult most peoples intelligence, but they have so many followers.

[@TheSunshinebugs]

@@matasaina2011 James 3 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. We are to reason, have intelligence, so we are able to discern the difference between the true and false teachers. If you think you can restrain the Holy Spirit then you don't know God very well, He holds up the universe with his power, He could strike you down in 1 second! He does not need us to accomplish anything on earth nor heaven, He has authority over every thing. How many books do these false teachers write (49 for P Wagner), doesn't the Bible say ...All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness!? ...how much do they talk about themselves on stage...how lavish do they like to live... selfish ambition ...what kind of lives did the real Apostles lead, Jesus himself had no where to lay his head....and here they are...not a care in the world fleecing the poor and hurting to make themselves rich...

[@kevinstrabley3816]

Outstanding work PL. Enjoyed the video!

[@fernandoacosta7239]

Brother if you want you could make a video about Guillermo Maldonado a Honduran American, co founder and senior pastor of El Rey Jesus, he is an New apostolic reformation teacher, friends with Bill Johnson, and Tracy Cooke. Justin Peters went to his church for investigation. If you want you could make one about him because even though his sermons are in spanish he uses a translator, and he switches languages all the time.

[@brettusmcvet777]

Thank you brother! Completely agree! Thank God there are men still proclaiming the truth! The Holy Spirit has opened my eyes up to the glory of God through your ministry as well as Justin Peters and John MacArthur‘s. I’m very grateful brother. Thank you again!

[@harpgal9950]

Good teaching, clear presentation. Thank you!

[@laraleetaylor6332]

Thankyou Brother, blessings to you also. Love the new series.

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you!

[@michellegordon8627]

Thank you. You made this so clear, that I may be able to explain it to someone myself.

[@RobertEMason]

Thank you for sharing this important information!

[@tirsojune]

Keep these videos coming. They are so helpful!

[@PoliteLeader]

Glad you like them!

[@johnb9005]

Alan, you have a great speaking voice and make a lot of sense.

[@jasminesmith5447]

Lol, I've been watching your videos for the past several days and I love how they are straight to the point.

[@PoliteLeader]

Thanks Jazz! I'm so glad you like my approach.

[@jasminesmith5447]

@@PoliteLeader No, thank you for spreading the truth! I enjoy your videos (:

[@Caleb_son_of_God]

So, by their standards, since I can read the Bible, and administer a bandaid, am I an apostle too? Makes no sense.

[@kathytincler2446]

Thank you for further explanations :)

[@scrapingrama1]

Our church was really into teachings of this NAR movement in old days. We were Baptist too. There are still lots of his books in the churches library. I am out of there now because they play Bethel and other cult music.

[@martindurfey6472]

Excellent teaching! Thank you sir.

[@rickyricardo2608]

Great video, you answered many questions that were on me Amen

[@arthurlee9712]

Great new videos.

[@cseif6929]

Thank you for your insight!

[@PoliteLeader]

You’re welcome!

[@deannasage5491]

God bless you allen I love you keep the awesome videos coming brother

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you! God bless as well!

[@jenkinsbrigade9862]

Many years ago when I was in Bible college, the denomination I was in at the time esteemed Dr. Wagner very highly. He was regarded as an expert on missions and church growth. This was before his NAR days. I was a little surprised when years later I learned that he was at the head of the NAR movement. I suppose that if I had bothered to look, I would have seen the warning signs even back in the day, except back in the day I wasn't looking and wouldn't have even known what to look for in any case.

[@harrisonrogers9108]

Another HOME RUN...well done, sir.

[@PoliteLeader]

Thank you!

[@ruthvansandt9713]

My dad believed (and so I did too) that God had called him to pastor, and to prepare to go to Fuller under Wagner specifically. That was 1996. We moved cross -country to do so. I always thought that he must have missed some instruction at some point was why he never pastored. Coming out of NAR/WoF has been rough, and uprooted nearly everything I ever thought about doctrine and calling, except Christ Himself.

[@brettpruefer7541]

I haven't watched the video, but I know it's going to be great.

[@PoliteLeader]

You are too kind.

[@forever397]

I didn't know much about this man tbh. Thanks brother for the insight. Side note: I don't think you have done a video on RC Sproul. I think you should 🙏🏽

[@jaw1970]

I heard a crazy story that Kurt Cameron joined the NAR have I got this wrong I really hope so

[@jameseverhart9814]

Good job brother

[@patriciagrant6687]

These video's are a blessing 👍🏿👍🏿

[@Jesusmyhopeofglory]

Thanks Alan 💜

[@PoliteLeader]

You’re welcome, Ally.

[@rhm5158]

Hi Alan, just curious; what is that highway at the end of your videos?

[@jenkinsbrigade9862]

Looks to me like maybe the elevated portion of Interstate 10 through downtown L.A.

[@JulietManx]

Just found this video because of the Strange Fire book by John MacArthur. Particularly interesting how Wagner rejected sola scriptura.

[@wendellst2266]

Thank you for your help walking through these land mines. Do you know Dr. Joe Boot? I am wondering if you hear him espousing the same mindset toward “winning the world” as do the NAR, minus the Apostles and Prophets?

[@richhava]

Ty for giving something else to research

[@tombillard5264]

thanks brother

[@PoliteLeader]

You’re more than welcome.

[@RoyalClothMinistries]

Timothy and Barnabus are also mentioned in scriptures as being included as apostles. What is your perspective on that?

[@JamesGaoist]

I’m calling it now. Number one is going to be bill Johnson

[@DWCPodcast]

Man, I am not sure how you keep up w/ all these people. What do we need to do to get more content each week?

[@PoliteLeader]

More than 168 hours in a week. Haha. Just don't have enough time to make more vids.

[@debbiedickson5686]

Thank you.

[@PoliteLeader]

You're welcome!

[@Andifnot316]

Will you do one on Guillermo Maldonado?

[@karriphillips5090]

Do you know if Jonas Clark is connected to this movement?

[@NcScbeach1]

Hi what is your name “ Polite Leader”? I agree with what you’ve said but always am wondering why people don’t give their real names.

[@kevinevans8892]

I challenge any modern day aposte to compare their credentials to those of the original Twelve and Paul. They would be laughed right out of the kingdom of God. The closest thing to an apostle would be missionaries such as Hudson Taylor, William Carey and David Livingstone. I'm Pentecostal BTW.

[@jaylintz1683]

Why does your friends website have stylized 666 sumbol?

[@momo-xg7mz]

This seems interesting

[@moname56]

I’m just wondering why your introductory video is the same as the one for Revealing Truth?

[@PoliteLeader]

@Gina Thorne It is?

[@SojournerDidimus]

How are we to read 1 Corinthians 15:7, where Paul (after mentioning the twelve in verse 5) is talking about "all the apostles" while verse 6 says Jesus appeared before 500 brethren?

[@munmoon3926]

Did you discuss NAR's interpretation of Philippians 2:5-6? The kenosis heresy. Please brother make a discussion about it.

[@angeloantonio5483]

is the guy from the last reformation part of this ? Into going back to the book of acts guy ? We should probably be going back to the book of romans

[@kevinevans8892]

I have known about Wagner since the mid nineties through Charisma magazine. In fact, I bought a few of his books, one on spiritual gifts. I thought Wagner and co showed an utter lack of discernment with the Bentley fiasco. Surely the Holy Spirit would have known that Bentley is simply not for ministry.

[@normansabadimedia]

The foundation was laid, and the apostles appointed today continue to minister on that foundation.

[@thatonefatguy9043]

I hope you look into Peter Popoff

[@ronaldfrink3925]

what years was he teaching at fuller ?

[@GemsOfGrace]

Great video! Why does he remind me of Colonel Sanders? 😂

[@bryanwong2575]

I literally thought it was David Pawson initially by looking at the pictute....

[@johnathanmeeks186]

Extension foundations?

[@faisonhoward9191]

NAR is like the Democrats in party politics..almost anything goes as long as you agree with top leaders of nar..

[@PSUJerseyGirl]

@@matasaina2011 These calvinist have messed up theology too....they the NAR cult are angry

[@cindycollins2602]

When are you going to do something about the greatest NAR Elevation Church and Bethel's Church?

[@tuppence144]

I am curious to know WHY do people want to be called apostles and prophets? Is it motivated by big ego's, the love of money or what? Godly love for the lost? Wagner's description of an apostle, sounds nothing like someone Jesus would appoint.

[@TheDoctor394]

Personally, I think it's largely an ego thing. Being an apostle or prophet sounds so important and holy.

[@tuppence144]

@@TheDoctor394 It sounds about right. The old nature that wants to be worshipped.

[@TheDoctor394]

@@matasaina2011 But you don't need to be an apostle or a prophet (in the sense these people mean) to help lead people to salvation.

[@TheDoctor394]

@@matasaina2011 But you don't have to be an apostle or a prophet to have the gifts of the Spirit.

[@user-tf7yq7jq3q]

Is Dr Micheal Brown next?

[@Grace-nt9cc]

Thank you beloved brother! 😌🙏🏼 I don't know much about this movement? Or what ever it is called!😟 It sketchy at best!🤨 I don't know this person, but I think I seen another video about him! 🤔 Did you do one about him before?! 😏 🤗 It's all about Jesus!😊 They seem to want to make it about themselves! 🧐

[@PoliteLeader]

You're welcome, Gracie! No I have not done a video on him before although I did mention him quite a bit in my first NAR video.

[@brianh2476]

Hi Alan, thanks a trillion for your incisive and decisive presentations. They're a great blessing. Thanks also for introducing me to Rev. John McArthur, a truly powerful man of God 🙏

[@PoliteLeader]

My pleasure!

[@multicattastic8curtis286]

I will never listen to any teacher who has the audacity to call themselves an Apostle.

[@tribeof9]

I'm grateful for the encouragement to be discerning. I don't know much about Peter Wagner, but I would say that the idea of modern day apostles isn't such a crazy idea from scripture. There were more apostles than the 12 and Paul mentioned in the NT. That's not to say that role of the 12 wasn't unique in church history or that apostles have absolute authority on earth for the church. It's probably more a definition of terms in some ways. Dr. Wagner may have a lot of heretical ideas, but I wouldn't say that the way you described his doctrine concerning apostles as Biblically false out of hand. You could easily have a special foundational role for the 12 and a role for a continued charismata of the apostle. I'd encourage nuance in our discernment when possible. Also, and again, I don't know much about Peter Wagner's ministry, but I would say that men are not events. He may have written some wonderful books at one point and some terrible ones at another. He may have been right on for a while and then gone off or vise versa. People tend to oversimplify as a heuristic device and we need to be careful. Lists are trendy and short conversations are appealing, but they don't always give room for the type of humble dialogue necessary for being polite leaders.

[@user-qm7gn9er5j]

Apostolic Paradigm is taught throughout the Bible. If you look closely. Definitely new wine is difficult to be contained in the old wineskin .

[@aborowka]

Question. What 'Dr' Wagner was specialty? BS I already know. What I am missing?

[@pooml.178]

Please make a Christian response on religious trauma syndrome & your views on it. Thanks!

[@markrichey3914]

I left an Apostolic CULT Their leaders call themselves Apostles /Prophets and hold themselves above accountability,They also practice other unbiblical practices like women in the pulpit as well as Slain in the (UNCLEAN) Spirit

[@kickpublishing]

Technically there were 14 apostles - though you could say 13 roles

[@ComedyCrooner]

I can't believe they thought Colonel Sanders was an apostle 😆😛

[@jeffchilds8050]

One of the key verses for being a capital "A" Apostle is Acts 1:21-22. Basically, if someone was not with Jesus from His baptism thru His resurrection, they they are not qualified to be an Apostle. Peter based this on OT prophecy. That's scripture. Miniscule "a" apostles are missionaries. One word is Greek, the other is Latin.

[@moentertainment9142]

I'm pretty sure Dr. Wagner is Colonel Sanders in disguise

[@mistybustamante8906]

The only Apostolic Succession is fron St. Peper the first pope. The popes, cardinals, archbishops, bishops and priests come from that line.

[@timothytang2011]

“11. And he gave some, *apostles*; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” (Eph 4:11-12, KJV) “For I am the least of the *apostles,* that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.” (1Cor 15:9, KJV) 🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️ Apostle Paul taught about 5 fold ministers - apostles do exist, and he apostle Paul himself is one of them!

[@rayjacobs1146]

Could or should NAR be considered a non- Christian, unbiblical cult?

[@KristiLEvans1]

Fuller? Fuller used to be solid, didn’t it?

[@user-jy5ff3zo3u]

👍🏼

[@nickswicegood4316]

Howdy! I’d just add that apostolic succession is a doctrine that has roots in scripture, the earliest centuries of the Church, and within the Eastern Orthodox communions. It refers to the authority handed down by the original apostles to their successors, located in the Catholic Church (Easter orthodox included) The 16th century reformers made the mistake of trying to locate apostolic succession in scripture alone, a belief you agreed with. But again, a foundation can only be laid once, and the New Testament did not exist when the Church was established. This is why scripture itself attests to the fact that the Church, not the scriptures, is the pillar (weight bearing) and ground (foundation) of the Truth: “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬ ‭KJV‬‬ The NAR has made a similar mistake, locating apostolic succession in wild charismatic experiences accomplished by charlatans. Both groups should return to the genuine apostolic succession found in Christs one and only Catholic Christian Church. As Ephesians 4 encourages, God has given us these gifts until “we all attain unity of the faith.” Peace.

[@PoliteLeader]

In 1 Tim 3, Paul is referring to the local church, not a Roman magisterium that did not develop until centuries later. Succession of elders is only sound when those elders teach what the apostles taught. When they teach ideas that came from Gnostic tradition (Assumption of Mary, etc.), they are to be rejected with full force.

[@nickswicegood4316]

That’s certainly AN interpretation. Thanks for sharing it.

[@nickswicegood4316]

Here’s another interpretation, not from “centuries” after Christ, but the first decade of the 2nd century-Ignatius of Antioch, contemporary of Polycarp of Smyrna and disciple of the Apostle John: See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the priests as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.(Smyrnnians, Ch 8) In like manner, let all reverence the deacons as an appointment of Jesus Christ, and the bishop as Jesus Christ, who is the Son of the Father, and the priests as the sanhedrim of God, and assembly of the apostles. Apart from these, there is no Church. (Trallians, Ch 3) Peace.

[@PoliteLeader]

@nickswicegood4316 The priests? The Greek term is "presbyter" and means "elder". You're using a tradition that developed later and reading it back into Ignatius.

[@lornadoone8887]

You are right NAR is dangerous false teaching, but the early Christian understanding of what an “apostle” (outside of the Twelve) was is a bit different than you describe although “messenger” is also accurate as a descriptor. In the early Church, anyone who was the first to preach the gospel and found a local church in a new region was an “apostle”-or sometimes honorifically titled “Equal to the Apostles”. The Samaritan woman Jesus met at the well (in John 4) who preached Jesus as Messiah to her Samaritan village went on with her family to become preachers of the gospel in the early Church and were all martyred for the faith according to early Christian tradition. We would understand these early Saints dubbed “Equal to the Apostles” as evangelists and church planters. www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/photini.htm

[@bobbipatrick7079]

Is Rick Warren and Saddleback Church okay? My Church and pastor partners with them and their Peace Plan? But then again our youth pastor's agree with some of Bethel School of ministry.

[@LillyMarzSheps]

No, they are not ok. You are going to a bad church.

[@donaldplatt9083]

Bobbi Patrick yes they are ok

[@Curly_Maple]

Bobbi Patrick - You really need to research this out yourself. As you can see from the comments you've already gotten, you'll get those who say one thing and those who say another. But you need to base this on more than another KZbin commenter's opinion. There is a lot of information about Bethel. I'm not as sure about the other church, but it's pretty well known, so there probably is. You have to be willing to hear the positive and the negative. It might be ugly, but there is no other way to arrive at truth. Much of the new testament is dedicated to warning of false teachers, false doctrine, and false beliefs. Jesus is the one who told us there will be those who call His name but are cast out because they were unknown to the Lord. Consider that before taking KZbin advice on such things. I love this quote from Richard Wurmbrand's "Tortured for Christ:" "There are two kinds of Christians: those who sincerely believe in God and those who just as sincerely believe that they believe."

[@bobbipatrick7079]

@@Curly_Maple thank you. I will.

[@TheSunshinebugs]

I was in a similar situation, but the church I went to aligned with IHOP KC, it just never sounded biblical, and the notion wouldn't leave me, so I did my own research of where Bickle came from and his teachings...compared it to scripture and it was basically his own made up interpretation of it. I left soon after that. I believe if you are truly saved the Holy Spirit will lead you out of any false church.

[@davidsatterfield3105]

Just some food for thought... Why did the eleven choose Mathias by casting lots? Did Jesus tell them to do that? My view is that the eleven erred by replacing Judas in this way. Clearly Jesus’ choice to replace Judas was Paul. The Psalmist only says to ‘let another take his office’. Jesus did just that. We never hear of Mathias again after his ‘appointment’.

[@davidsatterfield3105]

Hywel Nii Azumah Nelson Oh ok my bad...

[@jenkinsbrigade9862]

What you say is true. We don't hear much about Matthias after his selection, but then we don't hear much about some of the other apostles, either. I tend to agree with you that Paul is Christ's chosen 12th apostle, but I think it's a stretch to say that the eleven erred in choosing Matthias; the narrative is simply silent on that point.

[@cptnric]

Can't the theological world kept its nutcases contained?

[@David-ws2on]

From what I can see in the Bible, it is Jesus. It is all about Jesus. If that isn't clear, it's Jesus Without Him, I am nothing. I need Him, He does not NEED me but He has accepted me anyway. Hallelujah, What a Savior!

[@andrewblok4182]

Colonel Sanders. Love that chicken

[@emixx75]

Who says that there can’t be apostles today? You? Who are you?

[@larahamilton2273]

Interesting content but you appear to take satisfaction in “exposing” these people which is concerning to me.

[@spn2240]

Way to go, comment on someone as a heretic who passed 5 years ago and committed themselves to missions for over 40 years. Hey everyone! Look out for Wagners theology who isn’t alive anymore to defend himself. “But he created a movement!” A movement that no one who is actually in the “NAR” agrees with his actual beliefs about. Randy Clark outright states he advised against Mr. Wagner saying a lot of things in an interview with Remnant Radio. I appreciate your concern and there are very real dangers out there about fake self serving “apostles”, but please cite what people actually say and do more research. It seems very strawman. Eph. 4:11 says nothing about teaching. It is people. They are positions or offices. Your assertion that it is apostolic teaching warrants further support. I plan to do some videos of my own eventually, my brother in Christ. Love that you are furthering your education as well PL : )

[@donaldplatt9083]

You just continue to slam everyone,you and John MacArthur should share the prize for the only guys that are right

[@ljrocksodc3649]

the king james says Apostol