(1034) Antique Registered Mail Lock

On loan from LockPickingLawyer, I picked and gutted this antique registered mail lock.
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[@lockpickinglawyer]

Bill, very nicely demonstrated. No need to return anything I sent. I have a few of those registered mail locks in my collection. Plastic internal (I.e. Newer) versions can be found for pretty cheap. Older versions of this lock have brass gears inside and real glass windows.

[@Ms2mark]

LockPickingLawyer Thanks for sharing such a great example. Just love these old bass locks.

[@pete_lind]

Nice info page of those locks www.antique-padlocks.com/postal_us_rotary_stamped.htm ... bet that number system was to ensure that no one had opened them between sending and receiving when every part of US government had its own locks.

[@blwngt1598]

LockPickingLawyer I always seem to have trouble bringing myself to "deface" an antique if it is working correctly. However, I love seeing how things chooch & what went in to making it & the craftsmanship in it. So I would like to thank you & Bill for that as it is much appreciated. What can I say, I'm a geek when it comes to the mechanical operation of things, esp if they are old!

[@AJ-kj1go]

Hi from another lockpicking attorney (not looking to step on your turf), I liked the idea you send him a demand to send the lock back but I guess it's nice you let him keep it too

[@blwngt1598]

Thomas Middleton *If* there was something put on paper about it I would venture to guess that it was a request to return it, not a demand. If you don't trust someone enough to the point you have to send a demand or ransom note with the lock to get it back, you probably shouldn't be sending anything in the first place. Buuuut that's just me!😉😆

[@VOLHans]

I bet the number window on the lock is so that it can act like a seal number. If you lock up a box with the lock and write down on some paperwork that the lock is showing number "0094", then if the mail shows up showing number "0095" you know someone opened it...

[@harrychung433]

A very innovative lock design, for that time. Like others have mentioned, a convenient way to keep track of how many time the box was opened. Be nice, if some one built that type of lock nowadays, so I can keep track of how many time the liquor cabinet has been opened.

[@LockpickingNord]

Thank you for showing us these beautiful locks! Generous from LPL to send them to you as a gift!👍

[@JimFortune]

It seems like they were more interested in knowing if it had been opened than in keeping it from being opened.

[@jamesmurphy8014]

It was very informative to see the way you solved the mystery of picking this lock. I have an old Yale doorknob lock that is giving me fits! I am a rookie and cannot quite call my self a picker yet. But I am working on it. Oh but I can rake a master with the best of them lol. Thanks for the video and thanks to the LPL for sending them. The more you know the more your worth!

[@AJMansfield1]

The counter actually makes this a _tamper evident_ device, you write the number down on the lock's logsheet and next time you open it you check to make sure nobody else has opened it.

[@KD0LRG]

Anson Mansfield Not how it works in postal land. That is all I can say.

[@AJMansfield1]

KD0LRG Might not be how they actually use it, I'll give you that. But it _could_ be used that way.

[@KD0LRG]

Anson Mansfield You are correct.

[@pourquoiunidentifiant]

@bosnianbill & @LockPickingLawyer Nice to see that in YOUR industry, guys works together instead of trying to destroy each other ;)

[@bosnianbill]

Yeah, this isn't politics! ;)

[@iyeetsecurity922]

Those are pretty awesome! I lurk around yard sales, flea markets etc for unique locks hoping for stuff like this but the most I've come across is a _50th anniversary Herculock_ which is now sitting all shined up on my shelf.

[@Ralesk]

Oh man I love it when you show obscure (and awesome) locks!

[@eyescream5313]

Ever since I was a little kid I have been extremely fascinated with Locks and learning how to pick them! Thanks for the upload Bill, a big thanks to LockPickingLawyer for sending and letting bill keep the locks as well. ;D

[@Pillowcase]

Looks like the retaining rivet for the case is possibly "stir welded" A smooth tool will rubbing against the material heats it up and mixes the metal of the two parts.

[@myreeflife7072]

Beautiful! One of my favourite locks!

[@thumperlockpicking9269]

Very cool old lock, I'm waiting on a old Polish lock,that i'll be sending to you Mr.Bill

[@springbloom5940]

I remember these locks, or some similar locks from when I was a kid, so they(or something similar) were still in use late 70s/early 80s.

[@Prophes0r]

There are a few things here that point to that lock being MUCH newer than you think. 1. Plastic internals. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_plastic_development Nylon was not invented until 1935, and wasn't used commercially until 1938 (toothbrush bristles). PET didn't come along until 1941. Polyester in 1950. If we allow some time for industry adoption, we shouldn't be seeing materials like this until the mid 60s. 2. Electronic etching of the serial number. This detail makes me think it is even more recent. Possibly from the mid 80s or newer. EDIT: After a bit of research, this looks like an "S" model manufactured by Mail Equipment Shops for the USPS.

[@l.e.miller1208]

This is cool. Knowing if your lock was ever picked is a neat feature

[@derekmcclemens3688]

Love the content on this channel! Always learning something about locks!

[@WayneRandall]

Thanks LPL and thanks Bill. Very cool lock.

[@waddac2]

WOW!!!! Amazing locks Bill and construction is amazing.

[@tcurtin]

The USPS's version of quantum communication! Very cool thinking to add the counter.

[@destinodk]

Interesting locks, thanks LPL for letting bill have a go and sharing the experience :)

[@pileggitech]

I find myself binge watching your videos Bill...

[@derekbroestler7687]

It's actually a pretty beautiful design IMO if you consider it... Obviously this wasn't designed to stop destructive attacks, nor picking... it's pretty useless in both of those areas... but it's not a bad early idea preventing surreptitious entry... I mean it's a mass produced, mechanical padlock that's got a built in "audit"... Let's face it, by this point I think we all pretty much know (though it comes as a shock to many of my customers) that if someone skilled, or willing to do damage, wants in, they're GONNA get in... You can't keep someone out if they want in bad enough and don't care if you know it. BUT... the next best thing to keeping them out, is to make sure that if they DO get in, you know about it so you can move on to damage control. The counter does that, and I can't see any way to open it without changing the count (provided the hasp was properly designed)... Post carrier records the number at drop off, and it shouldn't change until delivery. The keyway and pinning is flawed without a doubt, but at least if someone gets in, you'll more than likely know about it.

[@CeilingPanda]

Well done changing intro volume glad I dont have(as in 100% must) skip it due to high volume!

[@bowleylockcompanyinc]

Great Lock. Ratchet, Geneva wheel counter. Very cool.

[@circuskills1928]

I believe that the cases where friction welded in place.

[@markleng67]

Deja VU! I've seen these before! Bill, I thought you've opened this type lock before...

[@Aaron48219]

Awesome lock!!! I'm keeping my eye out for one of you these and one of those weird HyT "watchband key" locks!

[@murdoch451]

A very interesting old lock, thanks Bill, wonder what we could do in today's metals to prevent cutting.

[@tooterr102e.9]

Really cool old locks.

[@matthewbeddow3278]

Did we have plastic or nylon back in the 20's, checking this out found nylon was first introduced in 1935 but plastic would have possibly been available in the 1920's but would have been expensive preceded by bakelite i think introduced in about 1907 Thanks Bill

[@johnbeauvais3159]

matthew Beddow Bakelite was only a shade of brown to my knowledge and it has a very unique smell

[@matthewbeddow3278]

yer thats right to my knowledge but more modern based plastics became available in the 1920's but that would have been the very first modern type plastics, i'm not an expert i remember bakerite radios and cameras back in the day. Cheers

[@johnbeauvais3159]

matthew Beddow I've seen Bakelite gelatin molds. During WWII it was used for steering wheels and control yokes on aircraft.

[@Ucceah]

the retainer of the front plate was most likely cold riveted with a press or a hammer. brass is very plyable unter pressure

[@LeetMoviez]

hey bill, all your videos show you picking locks with crazy pinning extremely easy, and im starting to wonder if they even do anything? you should upload some videos of you getting stopped by some crazy pins, or atleast explain what they do.

[@aquatrax123]

Nice Surefire sidekick

[@lmars5933]

LOVE THE LOCK. WELL EXPLAINED .THANKS FOR SHOWING. 😎😎😎😎😎

[@jfett737]

very cool old lock

[@firecracker2244]

Not sure this is as old as you think. We actually use these to this day when mailing registered mail.

[@NomadUniverse]

Read the top comment by LPL himself :)

[@crazycraigy01]

What if you had a set of Sparrows back then...and i was thinking the same year, the 1920's...🔐🗝

[@paddlefaster]

You can roll back the 'odometer' and sell it as new.

[@toomuchsugar3960]

Like the intro on this one!

[@Bigrignohio]

Actually not going back to 0000 after 9999 makes sense. Otherwise (theoretically) someone could just keep cycling it to get it back to a number that hides the fact it had been opened.

[@kingjames4886]

heh... a lock that can only be used a finite number of times. guess that's one way to sell more locks. :P

[@YourMUMY]

woowee that is amazing. im loving locks now

[@captainbeardo3833]

Very cool...thanks guys

[@JimBobZee]

Really good content and presentation on this lock!

[@nextlifeonearth]

So to hide the fact I ever opened it, I only need to pick the lock 10000 times. Major design flaw.

[@maciejpociecha6357]

CapnTates it locks up on 9999

[@thelairdmc]

Read above Buddy, Lockpicking Lawyer states.... "There is a stop on the cam mechanism. Bill is correct that the lock will seize up at 9999. Otherwise, someone could attach the key to a drill and set it at any number they wanted.

[@stevewalker7822]

As always, very interesting.

[@raphidae]

So, what causes the lock to be disabled at 9999?

[@saritagracia]

nylon, if the number wheels are nylon - was first made in late 30's i want to say ' 38 or '39

[@s50201]

I'd like to see a "top 5 affordable hard-to-pick combo padlocks" video so I can upgrade my shit master key for something actually more secure

[@LEGN0ME1]

What keeps the pins from falling out when the cylinder is rotated around. The pin chambers showed up when you turned the core.

[@stefansantiago7186]

LEGN0ME1 the shell of the lock lol

[@jimstanley_49]

I'm surprised you can look at one of these with a pick in hand and not get in trouble. I knew a guy who was given an antique mailbox with a lock on it. He asked a locksmith to come open it for him and was told the feds would get upset if he did. He ended up cutting a hole in the back of it to use as a drop box for his youth group.

[@basecius]

Maybe the difference is that while the lock in the video doesn't protect any mail right now, your friends antique mailbox might still have contained a letter that got stuck.

[@edwardharoldbutler7076]

Any key for them? Would like to see what the key was like back then? Was the key single or dubbed sided?

[@thevacuumtubejunky9774]

If I'am not mistaken, those locks are to secure mail bags?.

[@dilligaf2300]

I wish you would have demonstrated the 9999 rollover prevention

[@emanonevahisey5841]

Bill can you get some measurements for me off the opened lock. Like the depth of the keyway and the depth of the from the lip of the top of that lock for the 3 pins or the depth from the end of the keyway for them ? I have one of those without a key and would like to try and make one for it. The counter was used as a security measure. They would lock up a bag going to a certain location and log the number, then when the bag reached its destination it better have the same number or or they would start looking for the handler along the route that opened it.

[@bosnianbill]

Sorry for the delay but i had to unpack it to get the measurements. Keyway measures 9.5mm x 1.64mm x 52.4mm First pin measures 26.64mm from the key opening. The pins are spaced 3.8mm apart.

[@micromachine7954]

Do you really think this is from the 20's!? I was thinking 50's at the earliest with all that plastic. I think they were meant to be a light duty lock for the mail bags in the trucks or something...

[@joopterwijn]

You talked about looking up for ever after rotation 9999, how was that accomplished...

[@mrk1075]

3:47 I didn’t see the counter move. Is it broke?

[@ChrisArlott]

keep up the great work, it is appreciated!

[@EmoFox9]

what stops the counter from resetting to zero?

[@petemartin5487]

Very cool!

[@penfold7800]

I wonder if there was any way to reset the lock back to 0000 without destroying it. What happens when it goes past 9999?

[@Robbe902]

0093... 0095 ?? Had a off camera try? ;)

[@dark_sith_mato3639]

wow that is amazing

[@eformance]

The locks can't be that old, there is an impact marked serial number on one of them. That tech is not very old. That or someone went to the trouble of marking them at a later date.

[@dsBLACKOUT]

Supposedly these are still used and made, or they were until fairly recently, so it's reasonable enough that there would be some made more recently.

[@thevacuumtubejunky9774]

Those locks are produced by Sargent & Greenleaf.

[@tewgomoo]

antique-padlocks.com/postal_us_rotary_stamped_01.htm www.shorpy.com/node/12918?size=_original#caption Mail Equipment Shops made these locks. The bottom link is to some workers making the locks. If you look close enough, you can see the third guy from the right making the shackles...

[@gentlestormtoo]

Did not that lock go from 0093 to 0095...That racked 2, NO?

[@sshayka3139]

Gentle StormToo I'm guessing he picked it off of camera first because he said "let's try this again".

[@FishFind3000]

how does it disable itself after 10K uses?

[@joshhoover1202]

FishFind3000 It actually doesn't look like it does, just rolls back over to 0000.

[@PDeRop]

FishFind3000 a joke from Bill.

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

A shame beacuse I spent a few moments thinking of what good such a function would do. And the answer I thought of was to stop someone from simply opening the lock 10,000 times to reset the counter to the value that makes it look like it was never opened. A bit of a stretch sure, but a totally plausible attack on the greater tracking system.

[@lockpickinglawyer]

There is a stop on the cam mechanism. Bill is correct that the lock will seize up at 9999. Otherwise, someone could attach the key to a drill and set it at any number they wanted.

[@goneutt]

The computer applied dot matrix serial numbers were a give away that it's not that old.

[@Krunchy71]

I dont understand the purpose of the counter.

[@miken966]

So that you'd know if it had been opened during transit. The receipt would show the number when it was sealed with the lock. Pretty ingenious if you ask me.

[@jamesozment1]

Jeffmoss26 A.K.A the drill guy would be jealous of that lock

[@DoRC]

what was the point of thr counter?

[@PDeRop]

Do R/C! To see if the bag it was attached to had been opened or not.

[@NudeJawn]

if you keep track of the counter number in the paper work, you know if what ever it was securing was compromised. Perhaps locking up a bag a mail on a train or some such thing.

[@mandolinic]

Not sure I understand the reason for the counter. Did you say it jammed at 9999?

[@ratchet1freak]

it helps making sure there is no unnoticed theft of mail. And the counter just overflows so if you check the numbers more than once every decade you can account for every time it increments.

[@Quethonable]

Mandolinic The reason for the counter is two-fold. One it stops people using a lock for too many years, two it forces more sales into the pocket of the lockmaker

[@OneOfDisease]

Mandolinic they most likely kept a log book of what numbers the lock had when any mail was added or removed from the bag. even today registered mail is taken very seriously, and you pay a premium to sent mail via that service.

[@MrWeAllAreOne]

Macdeas How wrong can you be lmao 🤣

[@KD0LRG]

These are being replace by other locking devices. Doubt it is legal to own or have even though you can buy them on eBay. Would have to ask the I.S. to be sure.

[@Lichlord]

Nylon was invented in 1935 so it's at least that young.

[@run-cnc]

counter doesn't appear to work very well. looks like it went from 93 to 95...

[@tbirdfan6635]

I see it as he picked it once off camera to make sure he could actually pick it

[@PierreDefretin]

B. Stone I think he picked it one time before turning the camera on

[@johnpatrickn875]

Antique

[@Knightogus]

Dude how come you always have different intros?

[@somecop]

No doubt. It's hard enough to build a brand nowadays, even harder when you are constantly changing it.

[@circuskills1928]

Knightogus it's probably because people are sending him them. He's used some pretty low fi ones that people made on Webcams a while back

[@MrGGJ7]

Knightogus why not, does company use the same commercial for everything.

[@Keith_Ward]

+Knightogus It is asked all the time, they are sent in by viewers.

[@FusionDeveloper]

I think someone asks on every video now. It's crazy how people can watch multiple of his videos and not read that comments from people have already asked about the intros.

[@felenov]

I have a version that goes to 9999 and resets to 0000

[@PolyclefSystems]

DESIGNED & MADE BY SARGENT & GREENLEAF ROCHESTER >> NUMBER OF KEY CHANGES >> 1

[@tcopeful]

so I just ordered my first lock picking set, any one have advice on a good vise at a good price?

[@tcopeful]

it's a sparrows night school tuxedo edition btw

[@bosnianbill]

Mine is a panavise model 350. I do NOT recommend any of the cheap Chinese-made vises selling on eBay or Amazon for $30-40 tho. I've tried a couple of them and have been very disappointed in their quality & performance. You get what you pay for...

[@tin2001]

thomas cope I just use my hands, or whatever the locks attached to. You can't take the lock out of a door and put it in the vise when it comes to a real lock, so I don't do it for practice either. That said, I have no interest in sports picking- only the practical (legal) use.

[@tcopeful]

Right, but the locks that come with it are only the core, don't have a handle or anything

[@TofranBohk]

Interesting

[@Jped277]

Bosnianbill, "9 or 10 thousand dollars?!?!" Are you joking here or seriously think they cost that Much? I'm assuming jk

[@foomonchu666]

Jped277 curious about this as well

[@Jped277]

foomonchu yeah based on his dry humor I'm pretty sure he's kidding. Although I bet they did pay a pretty penny for the locks. Any government contract is going to cost more than it should.

[@Arikayx13]

Perhaps a reference to $7000 coffee makers. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_On_Government_Oversight

[@johnpatrickn875]

Lockp