#105

[@KIWITALKZ]

FUN FACT- I recorded this entire podcast on 1 hours sleep and had fractured ribs at the time, so I was in a great deal of pain throughout the entire interview.

[@danasgamereviews3854]

Yikes. Sorry you went through that. Great job on the interview though.

[@PigDan]

Hope you got better, man! That's terrible

[@KIWITALKZ]

Fell off some scaffolding and landed on my ribs

[@DarkGuy666Hatena]

I just can't believe the amount of information we are getting from this interview. I find it fantastic that even today, almost 20 years later, we continue to learn new details about the lore and the development of the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

[@tauno4280]

hundred percent.

[@Cuzjudd]

We need this level of retrospective deep dive on a lot more games

[@avantgamer]

it's bonkers to me that a video essay some rando makes on a game can get hundreds of thousands of views. but this channel full of interviews with the actual developers of some of the greatest games of all time only has 5.64k subscribers. i'm so happy i found this channel, thank you so much for all you do to get us these interviews. truly historical work here.

[@NeptunianNeanderthal]

He’s so generous with his praise for those he has worked with, it makes it such a pleasant interview to listen to!

[@nevercanyoucant]

this is a treasure trove for Metroid lovers and developers alike

[@aether388]

Fascinating and inspiring interview - I wasn't expecting this to dive so deeply into so many topics that I care about, both as a lifelong Metroid fan, a musician, gamer, introvert, artist, LOTR fan lol... The list goes on. I was also in a really dark place in my life when I first played these games, and like you they really helped me get through it, so I particularly appreciate that last comment you made. Really appreciate both of you for taking the time to make this interview happen, and I can't wait to see what's next for the franchise.

[@SynaMax]

It is so awesome to hear about Retro's RUDE engine. Thanks so much for this interview!!

[@KIWITALKZ]

no problem. I feel everyone who watches this will get a crash course in game design

[@SynaMax]

@@KIWITALKZ Yes, both game design and some business management, too! Such an informative interview; love it!

[@Asscobra69]

This is so incredibly interesting. Listening to this makes me want to watch a Noclip Metroid Prime documentary :) Every employee (past or present) at RS is a legend imo. They reinvented one beloved franchise and revitalized another

[@Master-Mo]

Metroid Prime Trilogy is the greatest piece of video game software ever made to me!

[@cavum_concha]

Thanks for asking about Quadraxis! Really interesting hearing his take on one of the best bosses ever made. I remember seeing the wrecks of it in the arena you pass over before fighting it and doubting myself, and then when it turned out to be the boss my jaw dropped and it felt like I was fighting for my life lol

[@PolaireOfAstora]

Probably one the cooler interviews I've seen on KZbin in general. Very interesting.

[@MonkeyandGiraffe]

Agreed!

[@tauno4280]

Sickkk interview. Love seeing behind the scenes of the Prime Series development. So pumped that Retro is handling Prime 4.

[@KIWITALKZ]

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Intro 01:27 - How Metroid Prime Was Developed/Techniques That Were Used 07:06 - Working With Nintendo/Language Difficulties/Translators 08:11 - How Nintendo Operates 09:09 - Shigeru Miyamoto Story From Donkey Kong Country Returns 11:12 - Tanabe Was The Reason For Spider Ball & Boost Ball Guardians Difficulty 12:17 - Fixing Things In Metroid Prime Trilogy 13:14 - Nintendo Analysed Every Bit Of Text In Metroid Prime Trilogy 14:03 - Who Was Responsible For The Lore/Luminoth Language 15:56 - Sketching Background /How Mike Learned Coding, 3D Models, Design etc. 19:45 - Growing Up In The Military/Taking Military Experiences Into Metroid Prime Development 22:16 - Mike Had To Do Non Detailed Sketches Before Handing Them To Artists 24:10 - How Quadraxis Boss Was Designed/Gameplay Ramping/Game Engine Camera System 30:28 - MP2 and MP3 Didn’t Have Crunch 31:09 - The True Story Behind Metroid Prime 2’s Initial Development 32:20 - Metroid Prime 1 Crunch/Management Of Retro Studios Changed After Metroid Prime 1 34:00 - How Booz Allen Hamilton Gaming Development Works/Avoiding Crunch For Creatives 36:35 - How To Manage Creative Staff Properly 39:05 - How To Prepare For Curve Balls In Game Design/The Pillars Of Game Design 40:52 - Meta Ridley Boss Fight In MP3 Inspired By Lord Of The Rings/Original Meta Ridley Design Fight In MP1 42:26 - Mike Wikan Loves Lord Of The Rings 43:15 - Mike Is Very Introverted/How He Breaks Through It 46:35 - Being A Lifetime Learner 47:18 - The Problem With AAA Game Studios & Lack Of Leadership 49:01 - Breakdown Of Gaming Studios Profits From Game Sales 51:28 - How Nintendo Operates In Terms Of Managing Staff 52:03 - Eastern Game Design Vs Western Game Design 52:53 - Gameplay Trumps Graphics/Story Never Sells A Game 54:22 - AAA Games Designs Flaws/How Mike Guides Game Designers 57:10 - How Management Works Once You Have More Than 45 Staff 57:47 - No Excuse For Western Developers Not Adapting To Eastern Game Methodology 58:58 - Mike’s Managing Style At Booz Allen Hamilton 1:02:35 - What Games Mike Wikan Plays/Bullet Echo 1:05:31 - Mike Will Play Metroid Dread & Prime 4 1:06:40 - Where To Keep Up With What Mike Wikan Is Working On 1:07:44 - What Was Being Fine-tuned With Metroid Primes Audio/Clark Wen 1:09:45 - Mike Is Extremely Thankful To All The Metroid Prime Fans To This Day

[@doomdude3034]

Mike idk if you look at these comments but just wanna say your game series (especially 1 and 2) were the favorite of my childhood. Very excited for 4!

[@kadosho02]

I remember diving back into Prime 1, release day. Excitement, the audio design, visuals, and controls. Everything flowed so well. I always wondered what inspired the world building, cut ideas, and Prime 2 taking things further. Would love to see a documentary if possible someday. But this is the closest thing. Thank you for this.

[@breakingglass27]

I've had this on my Watch Later list for a year and a half now, and god... I can't believe I put it off for so long. What a great interview, thank you both

[@ProF1g]

Donkey Kong Country была первой игрой на моей Нинтендо в 2007 году (мне тогда было 10 лет). Она досталась мне от дяди, который купил ее в Европе, когда ездил туда на заработки в 1990х годах. Для Украины это была невероятная вещь в то время, она была у одного из ста и все друзья приходили в гости поиграть. Качество музыки, качество картинки, качество анимации для тех времён было просто невероятным. Майк действительно гений. Спасибо ему и всей его команде за моё детство.

[@chillnspace777]

That's a stellar game. David Wise composed an absolutely incredible soundtrack for that game

[@brycestrife5605]

I ADORE Metroid... Something about Metroid prime really grabbed me. The world's and music were BEAUTIFUL and alien. The scanning system slows down the games pace to a relaxing explorer. I can't wait for Prime 4.

[@Chaos89P]

The Luminoth communicate with each other using sign language (specifically finger spelling)?! You learn something new every day. That being said, I'd love to get my hands on the RUDE engine when I finally start making games in earnest, but that may be a Nintendo property.

[@SALTYTOAD000]

As the boss designer, I really wish you asked him about Kraid in Metroid Prime 1. Its a 20 year mystery that could have been resolved.

[@KIWITALKZ]

It was a question on my list(not to mention countless others) to ask but unfortunately I ran out of time to ask it.

[@mikeuk66]

@@KIWITALKZ How did you even contact him?

[@Oni64]

@@KIWITALKZ Maybe in a part 2

[@KIWITALKZ]

@@Oni64 possibly, depends if Mike would want to do a Part 2.

[@trenton9]

This interview was GOLDEN. I didn't expect to come away with so many life tips.

[@faelreklaw8837]

I wanted to thank that man and his collaborators for the amazing piece of art they created. Greetings from Greece.

[@samquik]

Samus fighting Ridley on top of her gunship at high speeds? That's so cool lol, but falling down the shaft was also awesome UGH I don't know which idea I prefer!

[@ryanpercival9823]

These interviews are so dense and comprehensive. keep it up!

[@typeraver]

Fantastic interview, fascinating insights and I was drawn in! I felt inspired and now even want to try some 3d modelling! Would love a hear a follow-up featuring the DK returns series if at all possible.

[@jerohiism]

This is awesome. Thank you so much for the interview, and thanks Mike for such great masterpieces

[@glentendo285]

THIS WAS SOOO FUCKING GREAT. Thank you for actually asking awesome questions. Great interview.

[@LucasDarkGiygas]

Awesome to know that the working culture changed after Prime 1

[@KL42596]

First you interview the guys behind the DBZ soundtrack - and now this?! Kiwi you’re a stud and you’ve found a great niche, keep doing your thing and you’ll blow up.

[@KIWITALKZ]

Appreciate the love KL.

[@KL42596]

@@KIWITALKZ and I appreciate you for bringing this great content! And let me just say, you have some great taste in entertainment. Very cool that you got to meet Mike he seems like a remarkable human being and it’s so awesome to hear all this behind the scenes stuff on one of the most legendary artistic experiences that is the Metroid prime series. I love how you’re using your platform to interview some of these “lesser known” but culturally gigantic figures like Mike and the DBZ music crew, you’re doing a truly great thing that I wish I had the balls to do myself 👍👍 Btw, are you taking any guest recommendations?

[@KL42596]

@@KIWITALKZ haha wow!! I just saw you had interviews with both Peter McConnell and Elik Alvarez those were literally some of the people I had in mind from my earlier comment. I knew someone who was into DBZ would also be a fan of TMNT 03. As far as I’m concerned It’s the most badass western fighting cartoon. Hats off to you 👍👍

[@KIWITALKZ]

Yes, I do take guest recommendations :-)

[@UberNoodle]

This was a fantastic interview. I really enjoyed it. It was interesting to hear what he said about dealing with introversion. My own experience mirrors his. I'm naturally quite introverted too. When I became a teacher, people wondered what I was thinking. But and after you've screwed up in front of enough classes, you become immune. And I also have a character that I play for which I have permission to be more extroverted. But after a day of teaching I'm so tired. It takes a lot of energy.

[@theherooftime]

I love this interview so much 😭

[@son12509]

These interviews are very well researched. Awesome stuff.

[@blakestewart7200]

Fantastic interview! Just found this channel through this. Good job, following.

[@KillPixelGames]

Awesome interview

[@novustalks7525]

Truly fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing this in the metroid group on Facebook or I might not have seen it !

[@spiderswat34]

I feel like i should have payed for listening to this, that was incredibly insightful.

[@Goolix_Aero]

This was brilliant. Something I've always wondered is how the team at Retro felt about Metroid Fusion being released the day after Prime. Were they all giddy Metroid fans excited to play it, or were they so burnt out from the crunch they had just endured that they had to take a break from anything Metroid for a while?

[@nishantk6073]

Mike Wikan is a legend!

[@DaellusKnights]

What a great find on my list! 😍 I'm an avid (rabid? 🤣) metroid fan, and just happen to be replaying Super Metroid for the first time in a LONG time this very moment 😳

[@creativecatproductions]

This is a great interview! Very informative. I find it odd to talk about how hands off Nintendo was and then hear about their extensive spreadsheets and demands for game changes days before launch….but still a great interview with an amazing man!

[@BillTrinensTongue]

I could listen to Mike talk for hours, weeks and months.

[@elborrador333]

Came here through Nintendo Life to listen to crunch at Retro. Amazing interview from end to end.

[@ryanlaseter7626]

Mike Wikan is a really awesome guy, had a chance to work with him at Booz Allen for a brief time 😁

[@KIWITALKZ]

Lucky you! Working under Mike and at Booz Allen

[@ryanlaseter7626]

@@KIWITALKZ it was awesome! Wish I got to work more on things that used his gamedev knowledge 😁

[@mwikan01]

Aww Ryan! Miss having you on the Team and hope you are doing well!

[@ryanlaseter7626]

@@mwikan01 I wish I could have worked a little longer with ya 😁 I have been working on my own game if you take a peek at my channel! Been busy with my actual job as of late though 😂

[@son12509]

These interviews rock.

[@nvahmorrow2346]

Didn't know he was Norwegian. That's cool as a Norwegian metroid fan.

[@dwarfwatercraft8809]

The ending - where he mentions that a lot of the core team on Prime 4 were there when he was - has made me extremely hyped

[@jonathandrachenberg6736]

What an unbelievable genius, and what an outstanding interview. Thank you so much for doing this.

[@waynetemplar2183]

Wow, what a talented guy and a good job by the interviewer letting Mike talk

[@JC21]

41:10 It kind of happened in Brawl :P Great interview. You can tell Mike's a really intelligent guy. And I fully agree with 52:53. "If it's not fun, why bother?"

[@Chaos89P]

That's an adage more developers need to remember.

[@samy29987]

Amazing interview man. I truly enjoyed it from start to finish. Some missed opportunities about not asking him about Metroid Prime 4 and what his expectations are for that game. Asking him about what things would he like to see in MP4 coming from the trilogy itself and especifically from his work. And what his favorite game on the trilogy was and which enemy or area was and the like. Would have loved if you asked those questions. Anyways, keep up the great work man! 👍

[@KIWITALKZ]

Thanks for the feedback , I had a list of about 100 questions and I only asked about 4 of them since the podcast seemed to be going in a different direction so I just went with it. I had a number of those questions on my list but time is always the enemy😬

[@samy29987]

@@KIWITALKZ It's ok. I still thoroughly enjoyed it. You did amazing man, just providing some constructive criticisms. But as you said, you probably had tons of things that never made the cut. Good shit man. Glad you and he are excited for Dread as almost everyone. Long live Metroid.

[@samy29987]

Also, now that I remembered.... One thing that surprised me you didn't catch on fire as that Mike was responsible for removing the sequence break from Prime into the trilogy. And I would have loved to understand his vision as to why he removed that SB from Prime 1. Metroid has always been about breaking the sequence and finding ways to do that, so it was quite peculiar to see it being removed. Or was it a guideline from the upper staff? That was a slight missed opportunity as well. Thanks for the responses anyway.

[@FannyPackMan100]

It's strange that he says that the Luminoth don't communicate verbally when you hear U-Mos speak in some sort of language when he first meets Samus.

[@Metroid24abd]

to good to be true this interview man !!! thank you !

[@videogamesare1]

Super interesting to hear about the dev behind this gem

[@Leee275]

I remember reading an interview with Kensuke Tanabe that one of the ideas that he had for a potential 4th game in the Prime series was something that sounds similar to that 31:33 "Instead of broadening it to more planets I would have one and would focus on the timeline, and being able to change that." - E3 2015 interview. It's possible we might see this unused idea that Mike mentioned in Prime 4.

[@Nigel222]

Very interesting interview. Lots of great stuff from this.

[@romeostars]

RUTE sounds amazing for designers. Wow!

[@MadSociety-uy6zg]

Wow an hour lol probably watch this tonight before bed I'm sure it's a great interview

[@jimsface]

Facts about quadraxis. Phenomenal fight

[@realchewison]

If someone can find me a place to buy the book he mentions at about 27:46 please let me know. Google isn’t being helpful

[@sabelaine6044]

This is amazing!

[@younesskafia4189]

This guy is my new legend

[@WaveOfDestiny]

My programmer estimate is "just assume it will be done in 2 weeks, If nothing goes wrong and the gods are friendly it might be over in 2 days." Immortal games with genious design, nothing like it. Planning where to go to get the items and progress at the same time is something that greatly beats the original metroid series too for me... DK is my favourite 2d platformer too, that challenge mixed with perfectly crisp controls...

[@joserachi96]

*starts downloading bullet echo on my phone* 👀

[@NuiYabuko]

Just to clarify, introversion and extroversion merely describe the means of where you get your energy from. Introverts will get drained from social events, while extroverts will strive in them. While some introverts can be shy or socially anxious, those are different things that can also apply to extroverts.

[@rank0011]

Special sauce 🔥

[@anhan7316]

What does Mike mean when he says "Player Package"? (Great interview BTW!!)

[@KIWITALKZ]

Player Package is referring to the gameplay elements. The fundamental gameplay mechanics

[@yusofplayed]

Praying for metroid prime trilogy on switch. The 1st is a top 5 game of all time. And more DKC hopefully.

[@mikeuk66]

Wish you asked if Yoshio Sakamoto had any involvement in development whatsoever.

[@AICW]

Sakamoto's involvement with Prime is brought up in the interview with Clark Wen.

[@robertkenny1201]

Would it kill Nintendo to HD port or Remaster the Metroid Prime Trilogy for the Switch? It can't be that hard since Skyward Sword is on the Switch.

[@rileymartin8284]

It's probably a backburner project until Prime 4 is like a year out.

[@noneofyourbusiness1998]

At least we got the first game. 🤷‍♂️

[@neutralnarration1463]

was RUDE engine used for any of their other projects?

[@mwikan01]

Every game up til I left (Tropical Freeze). I would assume the newest rev of it is being used for MP4, but I don't know that for a fact.

[@CaptainDoge1]

@@mwikan01 interesting

[@TheHybridbloodszak]

52:03 That's why I find most games from Western studios boring. Just look at the marketing differences between these games. AAA game trailers are usually cinematics with no gameplay. Meanwhile Mario Odyssey and BOTW reveals were mostly gameplay focused. I'll take NMH3 over Last of Us 2 any fucking day

[@Rizky-Gumilar]

No More Heroes 3 is my goty so far :)

[@mudguppy3823]

Wah wah last of us bad

[@RonnyLive19881]

A lot of introverts are generally well spoken intelligent people. When we do choose to speak we know what we are talking about, so listen. You may learn something. Just got to catch us in a subject we are PASSIONATE about. Some of the best friends we make are from teaching folks about random nonsense we thrive in. I’m not saying all introverts are like that, some are boxes of rocks that keep to themselves due to neglect of intellect. Some of us though… I bet you have missed out on some wild conversations by not asking the quiet person their opinion.

[@lolzwutify]

I came here just for Donkey Kong Country

[@44bigfreeze]

Consider giving the Metroid Prime games a shot. It's hard to compare them to DKC due to the differences in genre, but if you ask me, all 3 of them are even better than the already amazing Tropical Freeze.

[@euclid1618]

incred

[@DropkickNation]

Mike is GOAT.