#10MinuteTalk

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1983 was a good year for a lot of things. Mobile phones, the first iteration of the internet, and most importantly, the .357 Maximum. This cartridge isn’t popular, but it needs to be. Is it better than newly introduced cartridges seeing wide-range acceptance? Is it 6 cartridges in one? Do we need to launch a campaign to bring it back? Tune in to find out.
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@breconsatchwell3250]

So happy the Calendar and magazine made it to you all. I did not expect to see it talked about on the podcast. I have been humbled and blown away. I am a little late listening to this one as I had Back surgery in December but just blew me away. Thank you so much. You have all made the short list. Cheers Brecon

[@bobmcelver1484]

Super happy to see you guys put this one out there 👍. I started with the "Max" when it was first released in 83'. I bought one of the first 200 run of the 14" T/C Contenders back then, scoped it with a 2x7 Burris and since our NY laws changed to incorporate handguns for deer hunting, it became my primary hunting rig. Up until then, shotgun slugs were the only alternative. I hand load a ton of different cartridges and have guns to accompany them as well, but hands down my favorite is the Maximum. I've killed a boatload of deer with it and to be honest, it drops them like a dynamited bridge within 200 yds. using standard pistol bullets. The farthest shot I made with the round was on a wounded doe that someone else hit and she was at 273 yds......one shot in the lungs and she dropped within 15 feet. I often pester Mike Bellm (Mr. Max lol) and have become good online buddies with him over our love of the cartridge. We both have dreamed and desired to see the cartridge return to the fold so to speak, but since no one commercially loads it anymore, that's always been a dream. It was the grandfather to the 350 Legend, and 360 Buckhammer, and (as Ryan said) is neck & neck with the .35 Rem.......on a lot less powder I'll add. With Henry's introduction of the 360 BH, they now have a perfect platform to reintroduce it, only if someone would produce the ammo. Ruger's decision to drop it was a scared knee jerk liability reaction that doomed the cartridge to obscurity. It was based on lighter bullets in the 110-125 gr. range being fired in their SRM revolvers and the high pressure gas cutting of the top straps. It was premature because the top strap cutting, although slight, ceased after a short period. My career was firearm based for many years, and of all the cartridges out there, this one garnered the most attention or attraction for me.........not to mention the utility of shooting .357 Mag and .38 Specials out of the same gun. My new .357 Mag Henry single shot is heading off to Mike Bellm soon to be rechambered in the Maximum.......can't wait 👍

[@mikelevandoski843]

I had Mike chamber a 16" MGM barrel for me in 357 max and love that pistol.

[@jonathanfrecking1210]

Elgin Gates was the first to develop the 357 Max using a 1.60 inch case.He called it the 357 Super Mag. Ruger initially used a 1.40 inch case and then later decided to use Gates 1.60 case length. The Ruger Blackhawk that the Max was chambered in, only came in a 7-1/2 and 10-1/5 inch barrel length. The reason the Ruger didn't last was when people started loading 125gr bullets pushing them at warp speed. Top strap cutting and forcing cone erosion was bad. Then add the bad press the Blackhawk got because of it , Ruger pulled it out of production. Only a little over 10 thousand guns survived .

[@erichilgart]

Yeah if they had the powders we have now it might have stayed.

[@andrewboore3899]

Finally a Ruger No.1!! Thank you so much for featuring it. They really are amazing firearms.

[@Westerner_]

I wanna hear you guys talk about the 375 winchester! One of the biggest lead balloons of all time.

[@michaeldunn5138]

I second that

[@45-70Guy]

Great idea guys. 375 is a great caliber

[@georgeclarke4235]

Had a model 94 and a contender 12 inch hunter barrel in 375. A friend wanted the rifle so bad, I finally sold it to him. Kick myself regularly for getting rid of it. Now discontinued hornady 220 fp was devastating out of it. Shot thru 3/8 inch steel. Could see sparks as it cut thru.

[@Westerner_]

@@45-70Guymy first center fire rifle was a big bore 94 XTR in 375 Winchester. Growing up hunting wild boars in the foothills of California my dad wanted me to have something with more juice than 30-30 but not a 45-70 since I was only 13 years old. I took several boars with it, still have it but don’t shoot it much as ammo is expensive and scarce.

[@Westerner_]

@@georgeclarke4235 now that’s a interesting rifle

[@danielbryant8185]

I hunted with the .357 Max in a 10" barreled Thompson Contender. I took an 8 point buck at 112 yards. With a 170gr. Sierra hollow point stopped him with one shot. I used that pistol for 10 years before it was retired. Great round. Good job, guys. I really like your podcasts .

[@308blr2]

At 40:10 you actually uttered .358 WINCHESTER. I hunt with one every whitetail season. Still waiting on that talk! And of course: thank you for the .357 Maximum discussion. Quite interesting.

[@edgrifola6433]

+1 on the 358 Winchester. A personal favorite in a special-run Browning A-bolt.

[@jerrymoran8323]

Hallelujah! You guys were fun, and the RUGER #1 Story is thoroughly appreciated. My personal story with .357 Maximum started in fall of 1979 when I was not able to knock the Rams over consistently with .357 Magnum. I started with neck expanders from .22 Jet, . 256 Winchester and tapered .357 to create a .223/.357 cartridge to be fired in a TC .357 10 “ Bull barrel re-chambered to .223/.357 x 1.5 . Then 1.6 in length. Although most .357 chambers are .379 to .381+ , this was .3775 dia. with .346 bore. So an enlarged .375 reamer stretched by stretching flutes would work perfect. It shot great, however with other pressing projects I decided to keep it under wraps. In 1980 I was contacted by RUGER that a .35 Caliber cartridge was in the works with Remington. Bill RUGER JR. and David Bradshaw were the main developers of the end cartridge. I was briefly involved in ammo and barrel twist testing the accuracy testing was David Bradshaw. Remington was turning out ammo. First 1.495 then later 1.6 Altered Super Blackhawk frames were the prototypes. Then a redesigned longer frame was created for production ( advantage of investment casting , especially if you own the company) RUGER, T/C, Dan Wesson, and others manufactured. The SRM .357 Maximum by RUGER were produced in 7 1/2 and 101/2 utilizing the 1.6 length. Originally the bullet weights recommended were 158 to 200 resting on 180 gr. Ryan’s recall about flame cutting has bearing, however the effect was caused by 2 mis alignment of cylinder pin and extensive pressure by loading extensive powder charges to record 2000 FPS. (Guilty as charged with .44 and light bullets to 1960 FPS) on measuring SRM’s in 1983 the depth of cutting never exceeded .023, certainly not anything that’s going to cause frame failure. At the time Bill RUGER SR. gave directive to halt production. Recall went out and vouchers sent for gun selected. Several .357 lever guns have been converted to .357 Maximum. Mike Bellm has re- chambered .357 to .357 Maximum. Back story 2018 September phone call to have commemorative firearm to honor the passing of BILL RUGER JR. Contact ammo company to make ammo and advised the 1979 idea with .223/.357 should be revisited as the market for AR’s in on fire and my home state has passed legislation for straight wall cartridges. I just wanted a cartridge that small frame people , youth, and recoil conscientious folks could shot accurately. No gun has been produced although this is the 75th anniversary at RUGER. I offered to front #1 , however turned down in 2018 as no high volume commercial ammo existed. In October of 2018 I shared the .223/ .357 idea with folks saying I was certain some one had built an AR in that configuration. Turns out it had. I have omitted years of details. Just wanted to let you know several folks including Robert Haden at Starline thought that the .360 Dan WESSON and .357 Maximum were worth the effort to produce quality cases. The RUGER .357 71/2 Bisley with non fluted cylinder can accommodate the DW .360 1.4 length as the cylinder is 1.703+ head thickness + headspace for loading 1.75 OAL . The Old Vaquaro also has the long 1.703 cylinder in .357. Appreciate your inspiration , You should invite David and the Remington guy who started the process to the program to add fuel to your camp fire to light up the world to reintroduce the .357 Maximum. TRJM

[@ZachHunts]

This episode had so much I like. .357 talk, No. 1 talk, and Craig Boddington talk. He's the reason I fell for the No. 1. I have a tropical in .375 H&H and my only regret is that I didn't buy more sooner.

[@csullivan5230]

Bring it back! This is exactly what I've been looking for, something that scales a 38 caliber round and simplifies reloading.

[@jeffreyjohnson5092]

The .357 Remington Maximum is a great cartridge. Bought T/C Contender for wife in that caliber. 0:19 Boy, I'm jealous. Wish it was mine. Thank goodness Starline is making brass for it! YES, BRING IT BACK!!!!

[@NomadicHacker.]

I'm sad the holiday cartage talks are over but what a way to finish it off with, one of my favorites

[@1funcar]

"10 Minute Talk" but it's 45 minutes long? But seriously, this is a GREAT cartridge. It didn't get off the ground so well in the Ruger Blackhawk revolvers because of the flame cutting in the to-strap, but boy-howdy it absolutely ROCKS in a Contender or rifle format!

[@scottlewis2372]

The timing of the cartridge coincided with the heyday of IHMSA. The Maximum, and all the SuperMag's, were tailor made for it. As you alluded, the Max is at its best with heavier bullets which is what we needed for the silhouette game. A buddy used a Dan Wesson 715 in .357 SuperMag (as the DW's were labelled) in Revolver class, while I used a T/C Contender in .357 Max in Production. We used 205 grain cast bullets from a SAECO mould. My revolver was a DW .445 SuperMag (talk about your lead balloons) using 370 grain bullets from an NEI mould. I've never seen a .414, but the match director had a .375 Supermag that was insanely accurate. Or he was.

[@ianscott9396]

Exactly!

[@russellkeeling4387]

I used to have one of those Ruger #1 International models is a 30-06. I sold it because it was to nice to take into the field the way I did at the time. I got enough money for it to buy two other rifles and in that method got my first 35 Whelen. Since then I bought a Lipsey's Ruger No.1 in 35 Whelen. Absolutely wonderful cartridge.

[@miketyke9451]

Great show! I'm a total putz for choosing cartridges that think they are dodo birds, 357max included. You really didn't hit the mark as to why the Max and others came and went. Gun rag writers were heavily involved both times. Silhouette shooting blew up in popularity, the same way you may have watched cowboy action do. Cowboy shooting brought back alot of old, but silhouette brought in alot of new. Gun writers are always ready to get rewarded to support the industry. But sometimes they pick winners and losers. Make your own accusations as to why. In that press, the flame cutting issue was really hammered on, making the buying public reticent to buy, especially the 357 Max. The few voices saying that the flame cutting went fifteen thousandths and then stopped cutting, were drowned out. Power of the press, can be good or bad. Still to this day!

[@matthewmerritt6844]

Daddy used to have a TC chambered in .357 Maximum with a 14" barrel. He didn't hunt with it a lot but he carried it on woods walks, fishing trips, and while he was on the tractor. It sure was hell on snakes and groundhogs. I say. "BRING IT BACK!!!"

[@timothysegatti64]

Ohhh BRING IT BACK!!!!....WHAT A CARTRIDGE WE MISSED OUT ON HAVING IN THE LONG LIST OF GREATS...

[@jonaozo540]

Bring it back ...... but for me it never left. Was so stoked when Starline began producing the brass [superior brass in any caliber]. Have the Blackhawk and several Contender barrels, and a few years ago bought a Henry single-shot from Kurt Bellm and had his dad Mike [a very old friend of mine] ream it out for a Max. Such a great (and beautiful) rifle. For those that don't reload, or just want to try some , [Andy] Steinel Ammunition Co. sells loaded .357max 180gr FNSP 1900fps in 14" barrel, using Speer Hot-Cor bullets. Too long for revolver if you are fortunate to have one, but great in the Contender barrels and the Henry. Good vid, thanx. Edit: There is a rather large 'cult' following of the MAX, also the MAX is well-used in southern Florida on feral hogs.

[@MrTacklebury]

You could also get an H&R for a short time around 1984 in .357 Maximum. I have an H&R that was a .357 magnum that I reamed like he did out to .357 Maximum and it's a 20" barrel I cut down to 16.25" and is one "handy" rifle. I also used a rifle reamer for it, because you got a better and longer leade so it would chamber the long bullets. I bought 4 boxes of Nosler .357 Partition bullets in 180 Gr. and then they went obsolete and were dropped, so I still haven't shot up all of them. For plinking you can literally use any .357/.358 bullets. I have seen one .357 Max. blackhawk sold recently on a forum I am on. It is a great youngster gun. I do consider it a 125 yard cartridge personally. I load .38 S&W's that are resized using a .38 special die and it works nice with 95 grain bullets for small game. They are moving out about 800 fps.

[@robertblundy]

I had a T/C contender in 35max with both rifle and pistol barrels.

[@melvernsnyder7158]

Have a max in a Henry single shot. Was a mag. Reamed to max. Great combination. Love the max

[@chadillac95]

I forgot how good Ian is on the podcast. We need more podcasts with him

[@JF-jm3nb]

In my surroundings up north in easter township's Quebec , only one person owned a 38 special lever action. For instance we were Moose hunters by far so that's why probably. As a 10 years old young boy, my first introduced was a Remington semi auto 22 MAG. Next single shot 12 gauge. Next 357 Mag revolver. The last my father's 30-06 remington pump 760. After being in the dugout for 30 years because of an injury, 49 years old I'm back in the game and my intention was to be updated with everything on the table in 2023 regarding rifles. I've found your channel and bang I'm addicted. I want to thank you for your passion, dedication and openedness. Happy new year and see you in 2024 with maybe a 6.5 BC!!!

[@Jewlsterz]

My dad was pretty big into silhouette competitions in the mid 80's, and he had a Ruger Blackhawk 10.5" bbl chambered in 357 Rem max. I was just getting into double digits of age, and let me tell you shooting it was a whole lot for a 10 year old to hold onto. I've literally been shooting firearms since shortly after learning to walk so it really wasn't that big of a deal. My dad also had a Ruger 10.5" Super Blackhawk in 44 Rem mag, and I got to shoot it as well at that age. I don't remember being able to hit much of anything with either, but I will never forget the awesome experience of shooting those hand cannons that were almost as big as I was. The fireball coming out of the 357 Rem max was easy to see on the brightest of sunny days, but I never did drop either one of those revolvers. I would love to see the 357 Rem max make a comeback even though some newer cartridges have made it obsolete...almost. You guys rock Thanks

[@danielboyd4651]

Absolutely gorgeous rifle and a equally unique history. Definitely a one of one rifle. Great cartridge. Ruger should bring back the No 1. In a day of age where polymer and stainless are all the rage, wood and blue steel in an elegant style rifle are still in demand.

[@kyler-pj2vy]

They still make them currently made in 257 weatherby 7 mauser and 6.5 creedmoore

[@danielboyd4651]

That's what their website indicates, however the website has been the same 3 rifles for several years now. No one has those rifles anymore. Lipsey's I believe was keeping the No. 1 alive by ordering several hundred in various calibers each year, kind of a special No. 1 each year. They have not done that in several years as well. It's unfortunate. They are beautiful rifles in my opinion. @@kyler-pj2vy

[@PastorDanMoore]

Interesting podcast. One firearm that was chambered in .357 Maximum was the Savage Model 24 combo with the 20 gauge.

[@WillyK51]

Never heard of that one, Alway looking out for one in 30-30 win👍

[@jerrymoran8323]

A friend had .357 magnum chamber changed to .357 Maximum. Real all around carry in Michigan’s UP bunnies to bucks!

[@Hollywood41642]

357 max My second TC Contender Barrel after the 308.. Back in the 80's..

[@BlaineNay]

I had Match Grade Machine make a rifle barrel for my T/C Contender G2 chambered in .357 Rem Max. It's a blast to shoot (.37 Special, .357 Mag, and .357 Max). I also shoot it as a .36-caliber muzzle-loader by chambering a primed case, then loading powder and patched ball thorough the muzzle. It's a great way to get pre-teens started in muzzle-loader-shooting. (I had them make a .45 Colt barrel too -- which I use similarly.) I need to have them make me pistol barrels in the same calibers.

[@DanielMann-gq8fi]

Love the obscure cartridge talks, 357 max was kinda popular at the club I grew up shooting at for ihmsa, see some neat stuff there.

[@gregorymccullough3801]

Yes, the .357 Max should be brought back. I have a Henry single shot in .357 Mag that is a great candidate for a reamer job. I also have a Marlin 1894 in .256 Win Mag. Ive been playing with that for years. Keep up the good work.

[@keithbelz2952]

I did it to mine,,make sure you have the 357 max done with improved chamber so you can load it out long and really get it to full potential

[@mikespangler98]

They sort of did bring it back as the 360 buckhammer.

[@chadmcclelland7287]

My kids use 357 max for deer hunting in Illinois. MGM Barrels for the TC Encores. Great cartridge!

[@tjh44961]

I have to disagree with the dates on your printout on the years. I worked in a large gun store in Houston for about a year starting in August 1979. We carried Dan Wesson revolvers, and I personally sold at least two of the sets with the interchangeable barrels, in 357 Maximum. Love the cartridge talk videos! I also love Ruger #1s, and have had several -- .220 Swift, 45-70 and .458 Winchester. But after you reach a certain age, the best reason to buy a gun in an odd caliber, is "Because I want to."

[@jerrymoran8323]

Th, Unfortunately your memory is close, but having worked directly on the project with RUGER and David Bradshaw in 1980-81 the first production revolver were produced in 1981. The Dan WESSON development was in late 1981 and Hand Guns produced later in 1982. I was there in Palmer and Monson Ma.

[@leskrug9266]

And it's a shame that Thompson center went out of business because they were an awesome gun rifles muzzleloaders

[@FMDad-dm5qo]

Lol awesome - 45 min on the .357 Maximum; this is some deep-lore gun crankery. Happy 2024 Vortex nation hosts and viewers!

[@stephenbaker7499]

I just wanted to enlighten everybody somewhat, In or around 1983 Remington and Ruger as a joint venture introduced a " stretched version of a super Blackhawk-esque" . The pressure in a 357 Max is and was way up there, causing a flame cutting issue to the top strap of the revolver. It was so severe that Ruger wound up dropping that revolver from it's lineup. The Thompson center contender did not suffer from that design issue so it thrived with the , 357 Max cartridge and was quite successful and to this day companies like match grade machine that manufactures contender and encore barrels as well as many others , is a major lifeline to the 357 Max keeping it alive. Oh well just my two cents... Great podcast guys keeping coming.

[@user-hawkeye357]

Nice to see a positive discussion of the 357 Max. I began serious Ohio whitetail hunting with a 10" Contender in 357 Max back in the '80s. Super efficient deer cartridge, especially in rifles like that cool Ruger. Is Ian's bullet the Hornady 180 grain SPSSP #3505 by any chance? Perhaps your video will push Hornady to do more runs of this great bullet. I load it to 1,650 fps at 10 feet, and it does 1.5 MOA, pretty good for the factory chamber of my Contender. Maybe your recognition of this cartridge will bring it back. I also shoot 445 SuperMag in a Dan Wesson revolver--perhaps you could do something with the SuperMag cartridges in general?

[@michaelarthur5026]

I don't have to bring it back. I prefer to "bring it out" of the safe. Mine is a T/C Contender pistol with a 10" barrel, love it!

[@davidnave4349]

Hey guys Love this cartridge , I think one of the downfalls of the 357 MAX was the bullets . the 350 legend got handed special made rifle bullet that were designed with those velocities in mind the only rifle bullet made back then was bullets that were actually made for the 35 Rem. The bullets were a bit stiff and all the pistol bullets were just too frangible at MAX velocities.

[@Win52D]

I love this cartridge. Shoots well out of a TC Contender. Starline has brass for it. Bring it back, It is too good a cartridge to languish away like this.

[@rudygeorgiamulesandcountry1594]

I had a friend that had a T/C Contender in 357 Maximum around 1984 that he was crazy as a whitetail hunter. N0T in performance comparison, but I "thought" the .327 Mag. "looked" like the perfect single shot rifle cartridges.

[@parkerthomas9272]

You guys need to do a Ruger no.1 podcast

[@danielkearney3295]

20 years ago i talked to a friend about a lever in this, i love the mg, the max is just better

[@51ubetcha]

I have a 12" TC bbl in 357 mag that I had rechambered to 357 Max by Mike Bellm. Awesome shooter. I'm glad Starline is making brass for that cartridge.

[@arthurlagasse1994]

I just picked up a 10" 357 MAX contender barrel with 200 empty brass to go with it! Great timing guys, thanks!

[@sethk2203]

Have used this cartridge in a TC handgun chambered by Mike Bellm for several years now. Very efficient cartridge with little recoil. All one shot kills on whitetail deer and exciting and rewarding to take game with.

[@jeremywilson15147]

Would love to hear you guys talk more about the .35 Rem!

[@45-70Guy]

LEAD BALLOONS A staple to our forefathers who survived and loved them as they came out.

[@georgehunter4023]

Bill Ruger discontinued the .357 Max after seeing a lot of guys handloading 110 to 125 grain slugs with huge loads of magnum powders that were flame cutting into the top straps of his Blackhawk revolvers. The cartridge was intended to push extra heavy slugs at the same velocities as as a 158 grain .357 magnum for silhouette shooting. I absolutely love my Dan Wesson .445 Supermag. Dan Wessons fit and finish was beyond anything made. The Dan Wesson superior front cylinder lock was even copied by Taurus for the Raging Bull series of revolvers.

[@MrMillez]

Merry Christmas gentlemen. Thank you for all the hard work this year and thank you for entertaining me with great information and humour.

[@diggernash1]

33:30 😊

[@wallyzworld7108]

Father hunted with the RSI in 243 win for years. He also has one of those 357 Highway Patrol and I always thought about having the chamber punched out to 357 Maximum and load it with spitzer bullets. My brother has my old Ruger Number 3 in 375 Win that works really well with Spitzer bullets. I think that Ruger would do well making a Number 1 or reintroduce the Number 3 in 357 Maximum or 460 S&W (454, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 Cowboy) because you would get multiple guns in one.

[@kevinkirby6511]

Love the Podcast. My Biggest regret was not buying That Dan Wesson .357 maximum 35 years ago. Bought the 15-2 357 mag instead 8" barrel.

[@chrisholloman3710]

I have a CHP Ruger No1 in .357 mag and it's surprisingly accurate for a pistol caliber rifle.

[@WillyK51]

Fine rimmed cartridge, Today you got the new 360 Buckhammer. I like it, will see if it catches on. The 357 Max(180 grns) was good for about 1900 Fps, at about 40K PSI, the 360BH 2400 FPS at 50K PSI. Any modern Lever action could be chambered in 357 Max

[@ricksandybutler7629]

That was a fun episode 👍 I say bring it back! While your all keen on the medium bore cartridges, you should do the 9.3x62 😉

[@lucasvaughn629]

I think they already did

[@ricksandybutler7629]

@@lucasvaughn629 I can't find it, got a link?

[@michaelmcatee221]

I really like that you get the mystique of a rare caliber and the practicality of a common caliber!

[@1341usmc]

This was a good one. That rifle really stole the show - awesome gun.

[@MrTacklebury]

My H&R multi-barrel has 14 barrels that attach, including shotguns, rifles pistol calibers etc. I have sold some and am down to 10, but my favorites are my .45 Colt, .357 Maximum, .45-70, 12 ga. TDC with screw chokes and my .22 LR Versa-Pak barrel. It has also had and has several .410's, .243, .30-40 Krag (30-30 reamed), 7mm-08, .30-06 and several others. I've got a Rock Island Armory 24" double hammer shotgun with (2) .45-70 Barrel Liners from Chaszel and it's my double rifle. ;)

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

For anyone wondering, 360 Buckhammer is a 30-30 neckes out to .358 so it fits in typical lever actions and is legel in straightwalled areas. Personal note, ive never liked 30-30 and always thought it would have been better as a blown out, straight wall considering the cartridges lack of spitzer bullets.

[@jctedsap]

Back in the 90’s was really getting into shooting .357 magnums. I had a Blackhawk and a GP100. Had a Veteran friend reloading for me. One day had extreme fireballs coming out the muzzle and noticible increase in recoil. When I asked about it he stated that one box he loaded to .357 Maximum loads. That was an experience. He said only Rugers could handle that kind of abuse. Always wanted to find a gun chambered for the Maximum even though I have only seen ammunition on the shelf one time. Would be excellent in a carbine.

[@keithbelz2952]

You can't put a 357 mag up to 357 maximum the case is too short to hold that amount of powder the maximum case is a lot longer than a magnum

[@hardyblack1345]

At a local pawn shop about 1987 I saw a 10” contender barrel and a box of ammo like the one you had on your podcast. The pawn shop owner said the barrel was his and he had only shot two rounds from the box because the recoil was so bad that it hurt his hand. I bought the barrel and ammo. Within a couple of weeks I had mounted a Leupold 2x extended eye relief scope and tested my new barrel. Sure enough the recoil was excessive so I reloaded some180 gr jacketed sp bullets that were not so hot and it was ok. I still have that contender barrel along with 13 others including 22 lr, 22 mag, 222, 223, 7 TCU, 357 mag, 30 Herret, 357 Herret, 44 mag & 30-30. The 357 max is accurate and enjoyable to shoot if not loaded too hot!

[@brianfuller3531]

Still very popular in the tc contenders

[@russellkeeling4387]

To me the .357 maximum compares well with the 350 Legend.

[@leskrug9266]

My brother has the 357 maximum in a Thompson center contender which I believe that he bought in the 1980s. Still has it

[@chibineo24]

A cartridge I have never heard of... always cool to learn about exotic

[@45-70Guy]

Great caliber in a Ruger single action. Would be a great lever gun combo.

[@shieldG43Sniper]

I inherited my great grandfather's Savage 1899 in .303 Savage when I turned 18. I hand load for the rifle. I would love to hear you guys talk about the cartridge.

[@jasongerard8098]

Awesome that you covered this! Me and my lady used this deer hunting Illinois for the first rifle season. Shoots spot on. 180 gr fury custom bullets with H110 powder. Such a great cartridge in my Encore and Contender. We were able to harvest a deer at 85 yards and 2 coyotes at 157 and 163 yards! So much fun to shoot with very little recoil. Thanks for the great content you put out!

[@russellkeeling4387]

I also am right handed but left eye dominate so I've used single shots and lever guns a lot. Most I own however, are bolt right handed rifles. The problem with lever guns is when shooting prone or from a bench you have to tilt or lift the rifle to work the action which may not seem a problem until you have to do it.

[@davidcriscolo4768]

Would love to hear the podcast talk about JD Jones cartridges!

[@theoriginalDAL357]

Sure, bring it back. Now here's a lead balloon of a cartridge: the 7mm TCU. I actually used this in IHMSA matches for a few years in a T/C Contender. It's made by necking up a .223 piece of brass to 7mm, and then fire-forming it. It's quite accurate and has relatively mild recoil. In the back of my mind I always thought that if I ever hit the lotto, I'd love to have a custom-made 7 TCU in a bolt-action carbine with a 17" barrel to be used on my several-thousand-acre ranch as a walking-around rifle; the ranch is also on hold until my lotto numbers hit. C'mon pure, dumb luck!

[@wallyzworld7108]

Great cartridge. I shoot one in an XP100 that was worked over by Griffin Arms in Phoenix. Fluted barrel, early McMillan stock and a really good trigger. Missed an opportunity to buy a Custom Sako L461 that had been chambered in 7mmTCU for exactly what you talk about a light weight walk about rifle. Shoot early 120 grain Ballistic tips or 110 grain TNTs for varmints and heavy 140/150 for deer. And now that Starline sell 223 basic brass, anneal and just run it through the sizing die to neck it down to 7mm.

[@Adamhawk1994]

Boyz, please do a talk about flintlocking we need a good flintlock video for us PA boys! Happy near year!

[@darinbarber2922]

I do wish you guys would have put the 360 Buck Hammer up on the block for comparison with the 357 Maximum.

[@williambehrend5452]

Tc kept that cartridge alive and by George I'm thankful for it

[@jerrymoran8323]

Mike Bellm IS KEEPING THE .357 Maximum cartridge ALIVE!

[@stuartowens3506]

More honest discourse in this discussion than I’ve heard on gun channels in a long time! Good stuff, fellas! I bought my boy a Howa mini in 7.62x39 for initial exposure to big game. It’s a 200-250 yard gun and that is PLENTY for new hunters. Why in the world would you put a .30-06 in the hands of a 12 yr old first time hunter?

[@natepownall4798]

Thank you! I asked for this cartridge, and you delivered! Well done

[@kemosabe53219]

Arguably one of your best videos. Props to you all.

[@roblund8557]

Yes, that was in all the Ruger magazine ads in the mid 80's in the Blackhawk. But in this no.1 it doesn't get any cooler than that. I need a job at Vortex 😄, It's not that bad of a drive for me. Great job again guys, as always!

[@mot0rhe4d40]

My youngest daughter was put off by recoil and report. So the plan was to acquire a single shot 357 magnum rifle to ream to Maximum. For the lack of recoil and report compared to comparable hunting calibers. With the ability to shoot 38 specials for practice.

[@WaderHunts]

Selling my handi rifle in 357 max was one of my biggest firearm mistakes. The #1 would be a great alternative.

[@nealewatson5284]

I had a Thompson Center Contender chambered in 357 Maximum. 10" barrel and scoped with the TC scope. I hunted deer with it. Recoil was manageable but stout.

[@markseay4930]

No one has mentioned that many believed that Remington screwed Ruger over with this joint venture. I was in the Army when this cartridge was introduced in the Ruger Blackhawk, I was obsessed with this gun and planned on purchasing one as my tax return in 1983 was exactly the same as as the 357 Max MSRP in a twist of serendipity. Before I could make my purchase, Ruger began recalling the Blackhawks due to the top strap cutting issues, initially for repair but eventually Ruger refunded the purchase price to the individual owners and that effectively killed the cartridge. Dan Wesson revolvers were less affected by the problem and most of shooters who owned them went merrily on their way. The Contenders, due to a lack of cylinder gap, had no problematic issues either. Anyone my age remembers how slow Ruger was at releasing new products for sale mostly because of extensive testing and surely they would have noticed something as obvious as top strap cutting. However, I disagree with the guest who said it was like a plasma cutter. The examples I saw had more obvious damage to the forcing cone which looked like it had been hit with a sand blaster. Over the years I had kept up interest in the fate of the Max and slowly there were some rumblings about Ruger testing the gun thoroughly and finally approving the release to the public. Then, unbeknownst to Ruger, Remington, in an attempt to squeeze more velocity out of the cartridge, changed to a slower burning propellent. As many reloaders know, slower powders require higher pressure the burn completely. One of the peculiarities of the cutting issues was that it was far more prominent on firearms that had mostly fired 158 grain ammo as opposed to the 180 grain variety. This would hint that the 180 grain bullets were allowing the pressures to build sufficiently to achieve clean combustion while the 158 grain slugs jumped out of the case prior to complete combustion and the unburned kernals of powder spewed randomly out of the cylinder gap and onto the forcing cone and effectively became a sand blaster. This is all rumor but it is curious that Ruger and Remington have never collaborated since then, at least not to my knowledge. I eventually came across a 357 Max factory custom Contender barrel in 23 inch length for the Contender carbine configuration. I picked it up and scrounged some brass and now have a centerfire carbine at under 5 pounds. You guys could have delved a lot deeper into this subject if you had invited Brian Pearce as a guest. He had a early release example and noticed the damage after only a couple hundred rounds I believe.

[@cliffshirley829]

Agree that the .357 Max is a great cartridge. A couple of years back I bought a Savage 24V combo gun in .357/20 Ga. The previous owner reamed the chamber to accept the Max length case. It shoots cast bullets exceptionally well. With the Max on top (200 grain lead) and a 20 ga. slug on the bottom, it thumps on both ends of the gun. Thanks for the talk.

[@24kachina]

FANTASTIC rifle, what a great job by Ian. Unique, smartly crafted, and gorgeous. Well done!

[@robertjackson1407]

Thank you from Guatemala 😊

[@WilliamKister]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk chambered in this. It got a bad rap for flame cutting the top strap of the frame, especially with lighter bullets. The key is just to shoot heavy bullets like 180 grains out of it. In all reality the .350 Legend or the .360 Buckhammer has supplanted it.

[@lounaticlouie]

I fired a .357 Max back in the '90s. It was one of those cannon breach pistols, I don't remember the manufacturer. Very cool cartridge. I didn't know it was still viable. Great video.

[@Poisonslinger]

I enjoy your podcasts! I also enjoy that nearly nothing is 'new' in the firearms world... I have also thought that the 357 Max would make a good single shot cartridge. I have for years been interested in and shot older (cartridge period) rifles - and realize 'modern' inventions are often just modifications / updates to older ideas. The 357 Max has nearly the same ballistics (abet the the rim) from the 351 Winchester and going back further - the 35-30 Maynard from 1882. The Winchester 1885s, Rollers and Ballards make great actions to start from. The great single set trigger you noted in your #1 is just like the Winchester push-forward single set from the original 1885 Single Shot days! Winchester also had a close-coupled version... I have found the Winchester / or Marlin 38-55 a caliber that can be loaded down or up for this caliber range - but the 357 Max does it in a shorter cartridge - but the 38-55 can be found in a lever gun. I do enjoy the 'talks' - listen to them while reloading!

[@airbus7808]

International for sure! HNY from Australia 🇦🇺

[@2acritter4life]

Can we get a big bore wild cat round for the AR10 like 45 raptor? Just wanna see the break down of a modern big ole boy round.

[@robertfree1908]

As I’m enjoying this video(btw excellent one. Thank you!) I replay Ian’s recount of introducing his 357 Maximum to a less experienced shooter/hunter in my mind. Hunting with ARs and “statically emplaced heavy target rifles” has its place. But I think it’s about time we all take our old, cool stuff and encourage intrigue in this old, cool stuff to our new shooters. We may see a great revitalization of classic blued/walnut and gloss finish scopes(which really DON’T scare game btw) in great, old cartridges such as the star of this podcast.

[@dannyrowe6506]

38 short colt, 38 long colt, 38 special, 357 magnum, 360 dan wesson, 357 maximum, I have a single shot and a savage 24 v 357 maximum over 20 gauge. Bring it back!!!!! ( I did buy 1000 starline cases for my guns)

[@upperroomtoo]

We have a H&R Handi Rifle in 357 Max that each of my six children have killed many deer. It is a fabulous cartridge that absolutely dumps deer out to 200 yd. With Lil'Gun powder it easily surpasses factory 35 Rem.

[@Vikingknight2012]

Henry....you're got the single shot in 357mag already. Get on this!

[@darinbarber2922]

Henry has it in the 360 Buck Hammer version.

[@michaelsarkisian1047]

The Ruger Blackhawk was an extended frame with a longer cylinder. A lot of silhouette shooters were shooting it. I was shooting the Dan Wesson in 414 a .41 Maximum. The rugers wound up shooting loose and had to be sent back to Ruger to be rebuilt.

[@coldandaloof7166]

I remember finding a box of 357 maximum cartridges in my father in laws gun cabinet when he passed. No gun for it, but several rounds were shot out of the box. I wish I knew the rest of that story and where the gun went.

[@robertsanderson6234]

LEAD BALLOON!!!!! 264 Win mag please

[@jolier1313]

All of the damn podcasts I've seen and listened to, and this is first time I see Ryan draw a diagram at 28:38!!! Do you know how much easier it would have been for me to learn about cartridges, reloading, and firearms if y'all had been doing that this whole time? Also, happy New Year! Also, also, lead balloons! Also, also, also, bring the .357 Maximum back!!!

[@peterconnan5631]

Now that's a cool rifle! Love it. Bring back the .357 Max!

[@DavidCrowder-sb7om]

Bring it Back !!!!! I really enjoyed this cartridge series 👌Thank You Guys

[@micahdubas9454]

I remember as a teenager, my dad telling me about the .357 max I have only seen brass casings once at a gun show. It is a really neat cartridge that unfortunately has been a bit lost to time. Also, if you guys haven't done the 7.5 swiss, I recommend you should. Thanks for what you do.

[@Fulcrum205]

I've seen a Smith N frame model 29-6 IIRC) built by Gary Reeder in 357 Max. 6" barrel with adjustable sights. It was owned by my wife's late uncle.

[@NomadicHacker.]

These got me through the stress of the past week!