10mm for Urban Self Defense

The 10mm has evolved into the #1 backcountry self-defense choice, but is it suitable for defense against 2-legged predators? With the right loads, yes.

[@dtcowlick]

You are GREAT to Learn from and to listen to. You are very much down to earth. Your comments and observations are based on real world experience from both a gunsmith/ammo reloader perspective as well as an LEO/end-user perspective. You keep your videos geared 'down' enough for us novices to understand, without short-changing the knowledgeable and expert viewer. As a 75 yo male, you provoke me to think in totally different--yet WISE (!!)--viewpoints as I consider reworking my collection to a fewer, yet practical, number and caliber of pistols. THANK So Much !!

[@johnwesley6224]

The FBI never issued full power 10mm ammunition. During their testing of the 10mm the FBI determined that a 180 grain at about 950 fps gave them the results they were looking for. This is the load agents were issued. This is the only load they carried in their S&W 1076s. They were never issued anything different. Federal produced a slightly heavier load, a 190 grain but this load was only used in their H&K sub guns. The myth that agents couldn’t “handle” the 10mm with hotter loads is a myth that has been spread over the internet for years. Even Wikipedia has at times listed this myth on their website. It is absolutely not true. Massed Ayoob done a magazine article on the 10mm some time back and mentioned the history of the 10mm involving the FBI and actually got it right. He’s the only one I know of in recent years that hasn’t regurgitated the same myth going around about agents not being able to handle the recoil of the 10mm. The story I believe everyone is overlooking is the fact that the S&W 1076s had a problem with cracked frames even with the mild 10mm loads. Anyone who has an old 1076 should examine the frame just under where the barrel locks in. The State agency I worked with issued the 10mm all through the 90s and that was our experience.

[@andrewgates8158]

Cramming 41 special auto into a pistol.

[@libra7624]

Even the 40 was watered down, what most forget is 40 can still handle 600 ft/lbs even though rounds are around 400 ft/lbs being watered down themselves

[@americanpatriot477]

Wrong, you might actually want to look at the facts before commenting!!

[@libra7624]

How so, give me a specific example @@americanpatriot477

[@libra7624]

Give me a example using only my text response were you think I am wrong, I have known 40 and reloaded it for decades@@americanpatriot477

[@colt45acp1000]

Thanks for avoiding gimmicks and razzmatazz in favor of just solid information!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I don't think I'm capable of razzmatazz, I can barely spell it.

[@arapahoetactical7749]

Great work on this Sir. I followed the 10mm and .40 cal. developments through the 80s and 90s and I remember the Bren 10 and how short lived that was. Your research has filled in a few blanks I had with these calibers. A good friend of mine has the long barreled Glock 10mm that he uses for Mt. Lion hunting near his home in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains SW of Denver. A Mt. Lion moves faster than you can think and he says the Glock allows him to track faster than a long gun as most encounters tend to be at fairly close range.

[@johnw4999]

The 10mm with Norma Spec ammunition was designed specifically to stop violent human threats. A byproduct is “bear defense” with hard cast or a bonded JHP etc. A XTP, Gold Dot, HST, Winchester Defender etc. are examples of EDC ammunition regardless of location. Between my XTEN and XTEN Comp, I surpassed 6k rds fired since the XTEN was released. The ergonomics are much better than my G20 etc. and the XTEN line mitigates better than any 10mm I have in inventory!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

The full-charge 10mm JHPs will certainly be excellent man stoppers, but backing the loads down to a midpoint between full 10mm and the .40 S&W will give virtually identical terminal performance while being more controllable in rapid fire.

[@navchaps3449]

Love this series. I'm sold on those Lehigh Defense rounds. The technology is amazing.

[@pxmnh316]

Keep up the great work! Very informative videos!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks

[@bhoward9378]

Very interesting discussion. My personal choice is the long slide Glock 40 for the woods, and the Glock 19 for town. Howdy from 3-307!

[@bobg3633]

Dont knock it until you try it.. Hi point 10mm woth threaded barrel and there 10mm carbine. Cheap and it works.

[@callaseter4811]

As much as I liked the .45acp, when the price of those got so close to the price of 10mm. I just bought the gen 5 Glock 20. i also still carry occasionally a colt lightweight defender in .45acp. And a Glock 19 . One mag of hollow points and 1 mag of hard cast. Unfortunately in this day and age , we need to be able to penetrate car doors, barriers etc. in defense of our loved ones. Thank for all you do sir ! 🙏💕

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for the kind words.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

the 10mm is certainly returning from near death.

[@DrQuagmire1]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb the 10mm is definitely no joke, and there's a reason why the recoil is often compared to the .357 Magnum when loaded hot..... having fired my newly aquired Sig Sauer P320-XTEN a couple of weeks ago at the gun range, the recoil was definitely about the same as my Ruger GP100, and that one is chambered in .357 Magnum. so I can understand why the recoil on the 10mm is often compared and why it's becoming a huge hit among outdoorsmen when hiking in Bear Country, especially when using Hard Cast bullets

[@jona5517]

Indeed. Ive seen plenty of shops sell 10mm cheaper than 45 now. Not much, but still cheaper.

[@theoriginalOSOK]

Wow. I didn't know that many folks have been killed by grizzlies. No wonder the 10mm has become so popular in the western states. I own one myself (G20 Gen 4) but I live in San Antonio, so for me, it's just for range fun or possibly hog hunting if I get the opportunity. I have a Wolf stainless, cut rifled barrel for that so I can shoot cast bullets. My EDC is a 40S&W G22. Thanks for another great informative and entertaining vid!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Find some hog hunting in your locale. I'm leaving Mustang Island in the morning headed for Arizona, via your fine city.

[@Calqid]

Thanks, nicely done

[@rogerwood5228]

I'm relatively new to 10mm. I've mostly used Underwood 45 Super XD to do much of that, but bought a G29 because 10mm is just more readily available. For 2 legged threats, I like the Underwood 155gr xtp in the G29. Off the shelf, Sig makes a pretty good 180gr v-crown.

[@googlechicken]

The Hornady 155gr XTP is my go to carry rd packs a good punch and has tested well as far as expansion goes. Recoil is pretty manageable out of my 4.5 XDM

[@DrQuagmire1]

@@googlechicken not gonna lie, those particular rounds from Hornady are no joke and pretty much rivals some .44 Magnum rounds with similarly loaded pressures

[@tallman369]

Norma 10mm initial load was a Truncated Cone FMJ 200 grn at 1200 fps. Subsequent load was the 170 grn jhp at 1400 fps. It was decided to be dropped down to 1300 fps.

[@thebastard1958]

I decided on 10mm yrs ago, the crack of 357mag is to much on the ears(that's outside, indoors is out of the question) I went with a GP100 3", full power 200gr for the field & 40 s&w for urban use. Using Simply Rugged holster & their heavy belt makes a joy to carry all day. Good video & info, keep it up & stay w/old school presentation.

[@telesniper2]

Iver Johnson Eagle XL, Ruger SR1911, AMT Javelina, Para-Ordnance Elite LS Hunter, Kimber Raptor II, Armscor/RIA Rock Ultra and 1911 Tactical II FS. And if you like Revolvers, the S&W model 610.

[@kevinknowles2109]

Great video I'm up in palmer AK. Everyone is 10mm crazy up here. I carry the . 454 but maby a glock 40 in my future...thx.

[@guylozito7041]

Great detail. Thank you

[@justhavingfun0736]

Thank you

[@corbettcharpentier2123]

Great job! Couldn't agree more, thanks for making these videos. The 10mm is hard to beat for the backwoods!

[@kevinramsey3490]

Another great video!

[@gila-clifffirewood5796]

More GREAT content from a GREAT channel. Thanks!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Much appreciated!

[@OhioCruffler]

I love your videos, thanks for all the thought you put into them.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for the kind words.

[@MrBuckeye63]

So glad I found your channel.. thanks for your content

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thank you.

[@RandyWittmann]

Great video and information as always. Thanks

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for watching!

[@boostimalaka1]

Paul Harrell has done tests using 10 mm ammunition. Watching his videos will show that the 10 mm is loaded weak. You are better off using a .40 S&W from the major ammunition companies. Buffalo Boar and Grizzly loads 10 mm ammunition to real 10 mm performance. The original Norma 170 grain JHP sold in 20 round boxes is a great self defense load. The older Winchester Silvertip was also another good choice. Double tap and Underwood was loaded hot in all their calibers before they became very popular and loaded everything weak.

[@Razor-gx2dq]

I've seen his videos and love his work, very valuable information

[@na-et2gp]

The underwood 180gr hp and 200gr hardcast loads shot over my chronograph calculate over 800 ft lbs energy in my 5" 1911. I haven't seen their ammo loaded soft unlike many of the big ammo manufacturers. Hope they don't start downloading their 10mm

[@jona5517]

Underwood isn’t loaded weak. Not any that I’ve come across.

[@spokanesurvivaltrainingand5797]

My G40 is my favorite peice in my collection in general. It does it all

[@donwaterhouse9630]

Always enjoy your comments. Very understandable and informative.

[@kineticenergy1085]

I concur with every word this man said regarding 10mm😎👍🏽

[@matthewtilley7224]

I always learn something from your videos. I had never heard of the “Hatcher Scale” or however you spell it. I wouldn’t have expected there to be such a difference when you factor bullet mass and width.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

General Julian S. Hatcher, Chief of Army Ordnance. I will do a video on him sometime and his books.

[@paulkube3901]

I jumped aboard the 10mm bandwagon quite early, so.ewhere around 1985-6 or so. I burned thru a lot of Norma ammo; but when it became too spendy, then out of stock, I only had major mfgrs down-loaded fodder to choose. I used the 10mm Colt GM as my ccw for near 20 years. I finally gave it up and went back to .45acp. Non-boutique 10mm won't hold a candle to most stock .45 factory loadings AFA power factor/KE estimations.

[@BBDragon66]

Been looking forward to this. I did end up getting a Fusion Combat Commander 10mm to prepare for this episode. 😁😁

[@dougmoore5252]

Very well spoken and interesting.

[@thomaseynon6205]

Love this channel! I’m glad I stumbled on it

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@robertshay9951]

Very informative take on the 10mm. Col. Cooper was something else by all accounts. If the problem was a nail, he wanted the biggest hammer to hit it with. (Not a bad thing). I EDC a 40 in the winter months, 9mm during warmer months. (Upper Midwest has 2 seasons). But since the only Grizzly around here are in zoo's, a G40 wouldn't cut it to hunt with,besides game wardens really frown on 15+1 when hunting whitetails and feral piggies . That said, a long slide 1911 would serve very nicely. I.E. a 6" Dan Wesson Grizzly comes to mind. Enjoy your videos and info. Looking foward to the mouse gun video will be interesting.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Colonel Cooper was certainly a force of nature.

[@netravler1]

Excellent

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thank you

[@conradswadling8495]

thanks

[@JustDefense]

For urban carry consider the G30S (45acp) over against the G29-it’s 10+1 but will take the G21 13-rd mags. See my video on it. Thanks for posting Dick. Always interesting and helpful.

[@jmgates09]

G29 Takes 15rd G20n40 mags

[@jmgates09]

I keep a 15rd and 30rd mag in my truck for G29 only put 28 in 30rd if u load it with 30 it's not reliable

[@jona5517]

Yeah that’s not a new thing. And a g20 mag in a g29 will carry more.

[@tahertz8544]

XDE 10MM 3.8 it's fabulous just big enough great recoil management perfect from Carry from spicy down. You should get your hands on it , eats the recoil UP for it's size. Optics IF you choose.

[@tahertz8544]

I have some Federal Swift A frames 200 gr. do you have any experience with them ?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

@@tahertz8544No on the A frames. The XD pistols have a lot going for them. I have an XDs .45 I really like.

[@michaelthompson7570]

Have springer xdm both compact and full size,,waiting for it in echelon,,,,in the meantime a g20 gen5 is on my list…..thanks for your work and experience….

[@ultrafuel2559]

Did you mean XD"M" 3.8? The XDE was the external hammer DA/SA. I don't see that the XDE was made in 10mm.

[@tahertz8544]

@@ultrafuel2559 Xdm Elite technically

[@paulheinz2145]

Love your work but adore your dogs

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Only one dog now, Bud the big male lost a fight with Cushings disease.

[@mr5below078]

very informative brother

[@user-nh8et9kc1m]

I carry a Glock 20 Gen 5 MOS with a red dot and Buffalo Bore hardcast lead and a 6” KKM barrel for brownies here in the last frontier. I’ll swap to my Beretta M9A4 with a red dot optic for urban carry but have no problem carrying what I call a downloaded 10. I just find the Beretta easier to conceal. I switched from the S&W Model 58 for bears to the Glock due to the capacity and ability to use a red dot optic. Both guns get Buffalo Bore loads for bears and a more suitable load when I go to Los Anchorage. Love your channel and your common sense approach.

[@donwaterhouse9630]

Permit me to add an additional comment. I don't hunt anymore...to old and tired (turning 79 next month) but I do a fare amount of four wheeling in the Central Cascades (Cle-Elum) area) I have two 10mm's; a Rock Is 1911 and a Glock 20. Both of which I carry in a chest holster. Enjoy the heck out of both of them. I do encounter black bear on a regular basis in one particular area and I can tell you any gun will do you absolutely no good on a four wheeler. First, you have to see the bear before he sees you. That can be a problem when you are navigating you way around a sea of pot holes. Then you have to get the four wheeler slowed down enough to maintain control of the machine while you are trying to yank a 10mm out of its holster...in the meantime, the bear you just spooked has practically run into your machine already and you haven't even got you hands off the handle bars. Fortunately for me it scared him as much as it did me and we both managed to go our separate ways without losing any skin. Whew!!!

[@mikeseier4449]

The hiney gun kicks ass for sure!..

[@user-ci2mn1oy3w]

with the 60 gr, 2300 fps solid copper hp from Liberty Arms, the recoil is considerably less than with 230 gr .45 ACP ball ammo, but it's got about 700 ft lbs of power and none of it gets wasted on over-penetration. My 2 segment "Split-Nose" design is better, but nobody wants to pay $7 per rd of ammo. and I aint making it for less. My .460 Rowland load can be used in any .45 ACP barrel that's been deepened 2 mm and has a fully-supported feed ramp. It give you 70 grs at 2300 fps from a 4" barrel, less recoil than .45 ball ammo, about 800 ft lbs, two diverging wound tracks, with the temporary gas-cavity destroying all vital organ tissue that gets 'caught" between the yawing, sharp cornered, "hard" segments as they diverge and penetrate. It's AP, and well proven on animals to be by far the most devastating load that's fully controlable in a lw, compact ccw pistol.

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍Well done video

[@Mikesmith-lq7oo]

Dick, can you please do a video on the the 308 175 grain OTM and the 5.56mm 62-77 grain OTM ammo? Rifles are the preferred self defense tool. I look to your videos for knowledge. Your channel is excellent

[@MrBuckeye63]

I purchased a XDM E compact in 10mm .. just for SD carry ( two legged) that is .. using 180gr Gold Dots from Underwood

[@johnhild-pt4qm]

The 45acp is my primary carry pistol and the 10mm is the second carry pistol.

[@jameslafitte1326]

I love your videos

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thank you.

[@jwgbmp40]

I like that 40 cal bullet for self defense, I think it is called "truncated? in 165g, kinda flat faced.

[@ultrafuel2559]

Great talk. The problem with the 10mm is the guns are all thicker than they need to be because manufacturers all build them off their 45 ACP platforms, because the existing grips can accommodate the longer 10mm round. 40SW pistols are usually the same width as their 9mm counterparts. Since 40SW has the same diameter of a 10mm, there is no reason a 10mm pistol needs to be any thicker than a 9mm. People argue that it is because the operating pressure are too high, but that is just not so. I carry a 357 Sig. Converting most pistols to 357 Sig from 40SW is simply a barrel change (sights too if you want to get picky), and the 357 Sig (40,000 psi) has a higher operating pressure than 10mm (37,500 psi). Just a side-note, contrary to popular belief the 9mm and 40SW have the same operating pressure (35,000 psi). You can get a 357 Sig barrel for a 40SW Smith and Wesson Shield, so there is no reason you can't have a 10mm M&P Shield with just a grip to handle longer bullets. It won't be fun to shoot, but it will get the job done. That being said, my new "bear" gun is an FNX 45 tactical modified for 460 Rowland, but I end up carrying my Sig P224 in 357 Sig.

[@lenholt7419]

This has been a fascinating series on the calibers. i appreciate the information. I have been researching the Black Hills Lehigh as well as the Liberty Civil Defense. I've read that some folks don't consider these viable due to penetration. The initial energy dump from this style of round is impressive. In 40 S&W I went through similar research. Finally choosing 165Gr Speer GDHP. i don't do gel tests or chrono. Lots of reading and on range evaluating firearm function and grouping. If it doesn't produce acceptable groups what value is there? There has been the exhaustive definitions of recoil impulse with 40 considered "Snappy". it to me is just 40. What was interesting the snappiness was in the lighter loads of the 40 with 165 and 180 seeming in my world normal. i got some of the same reminders with the lighter fast moving rounds in 45. Great information. Thank you.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I have seen some very small recruits handle the .40 with no problems. They aren't told the caliber is "snappy," so they simply handle the recoil and move on.

[@gregosborne2041]

Love the content! How about obscure calibers: 45 Win Mag, 9mm WM, 357 Maximum, 41 magnum?

[@paxdrago1]

Nice overview of 10mm. Several KZbinrs who live in Alaska have done extensive testing of 10mm on bear skulls etc and extol its virtues. Several seem to have settled on the Springfield for cost and specs. I have experienced a few problems. Recoil does not cause accuracy problems for me on 9mm full size handguns or smaller. This round has laughed at me and called me a grasshopper. I am not even sure if it is the recoil or the much larger sound/flash from this round, but I feel like a rookie every time i shoot it. I will need much more practice, but unfortunately that practice costs about twice as much as 9mm. Half a dollar per trigger pull for practice is tiresome to my pocketbook. Any advice on how to speed this process up and make it less expensive. This round has made me contemplate picking up reloading due to ammo costs.

[@michaelnasser8697]

Pax, may I suggest that if you don’t absolutely need the 10, drop back to a 40. Cheaper ammo, less recoil and you can still get some stout loads.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I think you have your solution, reloading. A somewhat lighter load for the bulk of your practice and full loads to practice repelling boarders.

[@paxdrago1]

goal was brown bear defense. only option i am comfortable with is up. @@michaelnasser8697

[@robertshay9951]

Reloading is fun and relaxing. Follow all safety protocols, and it will be rewarding . For self-defense rounds, personally, I stick to commercial manufacturers only.

[@Mrelindio42]

Great info on the 10mm that I wasn't aware of. I have a G20, but it is way too big and heavy for EDC for me. It is a good shooter though and was purchased for bear defense. More important than caliber is shot placement. I'm looking forward to your "mouse guns" evaluation. There are some interesting .22LR rounds that were not available when the only thing I had was a .22 single shot rifle.

[@user-ci2mn1oy3w]

yes, IF you have to fire at all, and iF you have to hit, which is rare and IF that shot placement is to the brain and If you're able get that brain hit (fast enough) tha'ts a lot of ifs before shot placement means diddly squat Far more often it's getting the gun pointed at them, so they stop and flee. Most attacks are not made with guns and any sort of gunshot wound means prison due to medical personnel calling the cops, or death from infection if the wound is not treated.. So it's rare that anyone forces the issue in the face of a gun.

[@ExactAeration]

I carry my G29 in the woods fairly often on hikes here in Idaho, yet because the G27 is lighter I will cheat with my 40 and carry more spare mags on the opposite side.

[@jasonb8407]

I have the G29 and put a tungsten guid rod in it. Absolutely love this pistol and it runs the hot stuff great. I will probably be looking at putting a wolf barrel in it soon as they say it provides a more secure chamber.

[@factsoftheconfederacy7151]

I still prefer the recoil impulse of .45 ACP and I prefer it for both urban and in the woods.

[@tikkidaddy]

First 10mm I ever shot was a Colt DE blued. Aluminum FLGR, Shok-Buf, 22# recoil spring. Win STHP kicked like a 357 before that system was installed. If I had it to do over its DoubleTap 135 at 1600fps. Bears its heat treated lead all the way . Things shot like a phaser for me.

[@julian9898]

What’s your view on the fouling issue with glock 20s and hard cast bullets? I hear some people saying its a problem and others saying it isnt… (love your channel btw!)

[@loftonherington8892]

I carry a g29 with Hornady 180 xtp for every day in the woods I carry grizzly 200 grain

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Great combo.

[@antpassalacqua]

Great video, my EDC is a 10mm because a little more juice than common 40 loads shoot just fantastic from a 10mm firearm Did cooper not also have a preference for outdoor firearms, something like 40 caliber, 300 grains, 1200 fps, or am i misremembering?

[@bluesoverlord]

Excellent review on 10 mm. I think I’ll keep my John Ross S&W 500 for bear, but the 10 mm has got me wondering for urban. Please do 32 H&R and 327. Lipseys is coming out with an ultimate carry snub in 32 H&R in a J-frame, so 6 shots. Is 32 H&R magnum “adequate”? Is 327 kind of like 41 magnum, why bother? Just go up a step.

[@michaelnasser8697]

Yes, I would like to see a video on the 32 H&R as well. Very versatile chambering.

[@jona5517]

I have seen extreme hunter bullets now on the Underwood site in certain pistol calibers.

[@3.eyes.open.]

Id love to hear your opinions about the cz 75 lineup of firearms i have a cz 75 SP-01 and man is it a shooter

[@thumbgunman]

cool intro. pics!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks, great memories.

[@jamesvatter5729]

I've had three 10s. It would definitely be my pistol of choice if I were to return to the bear woods.

[@oneboyscout3653]

Cool. Subed

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for the sub.

[@danoman5217]

I was carrying a glock 20 for about a year. I was using 155 grain ammo. Times changed and i went back to the 38 spl and 9mm .

[@markwallace5274]

It’s my EDC especially if you’re shooting because your life depends on it !! I carry a Gen5 Glock20 with Underwood 200 grain XTP JHP moving around 1250fps in the magazine

[@Swampytheroot]

40, with the right pill, is dead on vs anything smaller than big bear. It can do that, too. But you can't vary a point of impact at all, and the bullet has to be built like a tank

[@dtcowlick]

P.S. What do you think of the Springfield XD series 10mm in 3.8" barrel as opposed to the Glocks? I just don't care for the Glock grip angle. Thanks !

[@ryanranard5187]

Most 10mm loads off the shelf are close to .40 ballistics

[@ESMaddock]

Will there be a 30 Super Carry video in this series? 🤔

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

In the que.

[@Titan500J]

Very good aeries of videos, thanks I've been thinking of a more powerful pistol for my trips to eastern Oregon and Idaho. I was thinking of a 5" or 6" 44 mag but after this video I may end up with a Glock 20. Currently a 357 mag and a Glock 22 (40 caliber) these will suffice but having one more pistol in the safe wouldn't hurt.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

You can never have too many guns, unless you ask a liberal politician.

[@richardthomas6602]

Would like to see a video about double tap's 450 smc cartridges.

[@scottydouglass1892]

I have played with the 10 in my delta elite since it was new. The best millimeter is NEVER going to be a .44 mag. You can shuffle the numbers on paper all you want.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Of course not, but it is darn close to a .41 mag.

[@thomaspalmer7900]

I hear the 500 magnum is the most powerful in terms of handgun calibers!!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

@@thomaspalmer7900I believe the .500 is the current top pistol caliber in terms of power ... and recoil.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

Look at my user name… I was using a 10mm when Colt introduced their first DE 10mm. I now own 7 Colt DE’s. When Glock came out with the model 20 in the Gen 2 era, I bought one. Over time, I bought two Gen 3’s, two Gen 4’s, a Gen 5, two Glock 29’s and a Glock 40. I’m a 10mm F A N A T I C. I hunt black bear exclusively with the 10mm handgun and have been doing so nearly every season since 1993. (Not counting rifles on bear hunts well into the early 80’s). But… I’d never carry a 10mm for self defense EDC. It’s too much gun and why the 40 makes better sense on 2 legged predators. It’s also why God gave us .357 Sig in the Glock 31, 32 and 33 models. 😵

[@Gieszkanne]

There are load that dont overpenetrate.

[@Kinetic.44]

Kinetic energy energy is blunt force trauma. .44 Rem Mag doesn't need to perforate a kevlar helmet when it crushes it like a beer can. The transfer of kinetic energy that shatters bone is it not? A glancing shot on a skull with a .44 Rem Mag can still shatter it vs a .22 Long Rifle which can just skip off or travel under the skin.

[@user-ci2mn1oy3w]

I went with 9x21mm, cause the "hand in pocket' draw is twice as fast as any ccw belt rig draw. The physical move to a retention position one handed point shot and a reliable chest hit, at "hand it o over" distances is .40 second. That's if the .20 second reaction time (to the beep of a shot-timer) is removed. If you start FIRST, you have no reaction-time, do you see that? You can learn to take a 20" side step in .40 second as you make this draw. Half of such a movement is enough to make a man miss you. (unless you're 20" wide, of course) so this draw can "beat the drop", due to this sidestepping movement, The gun wielder needs at least .20 second of reaction time, to reverse the "dont shoot" signal that he's been sending to his gun hand . He also needs at least .20 second of recognition-interval and yet another .20 second to move his gun and hand to your new location. He CAN be shot before he can do all of that.

[@danielgreen6547]

Is there a reasonable consensus on what the most durable 10mm pistol in general has been over the years? I don't know very much at all about the older Smith and Wesson 1076s, but it seems like Glock 10mm pistols haven't always been flawless with some of the stouter loads available....

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

A steady diet of full charge 10mm loads will wear any platform out there. The Glock is probably the most durable out there. The 1911 platform will likely need periodic tuning to stay accurate and reliable with heavy use. I don't know enough about the S&W or Springfield Armory 10mms to venture an opinion.

[@danielgreen6547]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thank you for your insight, much appreciated!

[@freddyw4555]

Good one I like Springfield xdm elite works perfect. The smith Wesson never worked

[@MC-qy6fz]

2 real world wounding I have first had experience with of .40 were highly ineffective, numerous rounds, little effect on target. Now, also firsthand knowledge of a couple of usages of 9mm. with terminally effective results.

[@jwgbmp40]

i have found buffalo bore does a good job with 200 g standard pressure rounds for the 40 sw as well. They are decent to shoot in the full size m&p. I have thiought of the 10mm but really on the fence. Having a 357 and 45acp, 45c and the 40 with the buffalo bore, Im noot sure the 10 gains me much for the money? ... but I keep watching vids like this and Im like, weellll... maybe

[@Paladin1873]

Before the Glock 40 was available I used a Glock 20 with both the factory barrel and an aftermarket 6" barrel for bear protection. I recorded the following chronograph results with Buffalo Bore ammo. Glock 20, 4.61” barrel, 200 grain Flat Nose Full Metal Jacket, 1172 fps average velocity (rated 1200 fps) Glock 20, 4.61” barrel, 220 grain Flat Nose Hard Cast Lead, 1152 fps average velocity (rated 1200 fps) Glock 20, 6” barrel, 200 grain Flat Nose Full Metal Jacket, 1256 fps average velocity

[@normangiven6436]

Any firearm in a crisis is good.

[@7N6ballistics]

Per John Hall FBI FTU…the guy who brought his own personal Delta Elite to test 10mm in FBI. They already knew a full power load was a no go..so they downloaded it and found it did what they wanted. Why do people keep perpetuating the FBI 10mm was full power is beyond me. The complaint was the 1076 was just too damn large and heavy with a long trigger reach…by all accounts it was quite mild in terms of recoil. Hate to say it..but the more I watch..the more I hear regurgitated gun magazine article BS.

[@JENKEM1000]

Ten Elvises!

[@bigbpdx]

Please compare the 10mm heavy vs 460 Rowland

[@user-ci2mn1oy3w]

My 500 ft lb load, in the 9x21mm pocket gun, hits harder than the 125 gr jhp in a 4" 357, proven in animal tests. I settled for that level of power, given the "hand in pocket" draw-advantage over any belt gun. I can also have the gun in my hand, my hands folded at my waist, and it is completely concealed. You'd better BELIEVE that such a start lets me "beat the drop" if I side step as I present the weapon and fire., for a one handed point shot at 2m and less of range

[@Sean-ot4zq]

most 10mm ammo these days are loaded to .40 caliber specs. Full power 10mm are rare and only a few companies actually make it. It's out there but still you need to watch what you buy if you want full power 10mm

[@josephshaff5194]

45 or 10 and should it be Hard Cast ? I need to move to the 10.

[@NINJA_INVESTORS]

Stay on topic please

[@Jaycv-dq3rg]

I use Underwood 10 mm 200 gr xtp 1,250 fps energy 700 ftlbs

[@glocktown21]

When I first bought my Glock 20 ... I loaded SOME REALLY HOT BUFFALO BORE AMMO! Its SO HOT if you don't the Glock tight enough... your gun can JAM! It was my limp wrist! The 10 mm will jam much easier than a 45 acp or 9 mm... in a relaxed hand. HOLD the 10 MM TIGHT and HOLD ON! Its a fun gun to shoot.... I like just the standard 10 mm Federal 180 grain, FMJ, shoot great!

[@charlie1637]

If you want to walk from the Florida keys to Alaska with one handgun it's the 10 mm

[@reachvictoria3386]

I have heard often the 10mm compared to the 41 magnum, but I’m just not seeing it. Maybe in some loads, but it seems you’d have to compare heavy 10mm loads to weak to average 41 magnum loads. Maybe the TKO and Hatcher Scale say different, but I’m not completely sold on that. 357 magnum, despite the supposed low scale score seems to have a phenomenal one shot stop record comparable to the 45 with a much higher score. The largest benefit to the 10 seems capacity, which cannot be denied.

[@ajm2872]

You are never going to get into a running gun battle with a bear. There will be no suppressive fire, shooting from behind cover, or tactical reloads. It's just going to be you and the bruin for a few crucial seconds, during which you will hopefully be able to fire a handful of well aimed shots. You will always run out of time before you run out of ammo, so you should work to maximize the effect that each bullet has. Spend the time and money necessary to be proficient with a real backcountry revolver cartridge. If you are a young, able bodied man, then you have no business trading raw power for capacity. You'll never get to use the 5 spare mags stuffed into your $700 accessorized tactical battle belt. The bear won't be nearly as impressed with your new hi-speed gear as the boys at the hunting camp were...

[@JohnTBlock]

I get hunters working in pairs in bear country, one guarding while the other butchers - BUT YOU'VE GOT AN ELK RIFLE! Any pistol is kinda superfluous, ain't it? 😮

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

But I still Pack one. Pistols are most important when in bear country without a hunting rifle.