#11: Tektronix Oscilloscope Triggering controls and their usage

[@brencostigan]

If there were Golden Globe awards for KZbin content then this video would be my nomination. This channel is a treasure chest of concise and pertinent information delivered in the most professional and informative way possible. Many thanks to Mr Alan Wolke from the U.K.

[@usbcd360]

This is one of the most concise and accurate explanations I've seen of these triggering features. I'm sending this to people who didn't have such good teachers.

[@Shaybay922]

5 year engineering degree, and I am just learning how oscilloscopes work now.... THANK YOU

[@tcroyce8128]

same with me mate.

[@ZnSstr]

Same we had them just to look at them, I used one like 2 times in 3 years. And what should I know about them in an interview LOL

[@tinkeringwithelectronics]

I've had my 2246 for a while now and just twisted knobs and pushed buttons until the scope gave me a stable signal. Now I can twist knobs and push buttons with more confidence. Thanks so much for the time you put in these videos.

[@paolo69]

Just got an analog scope as a gift from my school since they were throwing It away really helpful video

[@paolo69]

Guys i also got a 60 v 5 a Linear Power supply and a soldering station as well as dozens of microcontrollors all of that for free God in so lucky

[@dave-d]

Been using 'scopes for years and always wondered what the trigger AC/DC coupling was about. Thank you so much. I missed a few lectures back there somewhere in the mists of time. Really appreciate this channel.

[@sanjursan]

Man, that is one CLEAN old Tek!

[@TheRadioShop]

Now that I have a working 465 scope I had to watch this video again. Very helpful at learning those trigger controls.

[@321reh]

Electrical Engineers Make The BEST TEACHERS when it comes to Learning Electronics!!! I Should Know,,All I had Was Electrical Engineers Teach Me Electronics at College, They have an uncanny ability to teach at all Levels!! Thank You Alan for teaching at such a easy to understand level!!!

[@mbrzeg16]

Same here done all the labs during Electrical & Electronic Eng degree course and forgot how triggering works! Thanks for this great explanation

[@michaelmiller237]

i really appreciate you going into the details about the different types of triggering. I was having a really hard time figuring out why I couldn't get 1 Hz waves to show up on my scope. I really appreciate you spelling out the 'low frequency' cutoff for the AC triggering. (Tektronix 2225)

[@w2aew]

Glad to help!

[@JohnRaschedian]

I never understood what the "hold" function did on my Philips scope. Perfect way to explain it. Thank you!

[@poppledirac]

Thank you very much for this! I recently saved a really sweet Tek 7904 from someone's basement and am trying to learn how to use it properly, and (coming from no EE background whatsoever) this is super helpful and explains a lot for me.

[@Ozonised]

Wow that sounds so cool :-) Well it's been 6 years already, I hope you did manage to save it. Hope you are doing great :)

[@RickeySmithEric]

I just found this tutorial and I had just recently purchased an Oscope on eBay. The scope has these controls which I did not know how to use until now. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@markiemalarkie]

Excellent tutorial on the triggering functions. I'm going to go watch the rest of your scope videos now, as I'm reaquainting myself with a scope after being away from EE too long. I picked up an '87 2225 off eBay and I'm hooked!

[@russwentz3957]

Thank you for sharing your experience with a CRT scope. While I do have and use digital scopes, it's important to me to still practice the foundational understanding of measurements. Your video helped me to better understand the various control aspects that I was not clear on, as well as (couple) the functions of the digital models.

[@w2aew]

As you've discovered, I have a lot of videos on analog/CRT based scopes as well as digital scopes. I hope you find them helpful.

[@82abn34]

Thanks for making this. I was playing with these controls the other day. Looking at the decay of a hand clap through a condenser mic. It's amazing how slow the time domain had to be set to see the whole thing. I'm learning much from you!

[@orwad7916]

Absolutely great video. Never understood triggering so clearly.

[@ki4dbk]

Yes. This (among others you have) was the best scope tutorial I have ever seen as well. I would love a copy of the "Scopes for Dopes" video. I have thought I knew how to use a scope for about 12 years, but of course there is a veritable inifinity of measurements that can be made, that I have yet to learn how to make. Best 73.

[@orion2020]

WOW thanks alot i been searching all over the internet for this!!!!. got my first oscilloscope an old trio kenwood 15mhz!!!, was fiddling around without knowing much.., after watching this it all makes sense thank you!!!!!!!!!

[@marmadukespratt]

As a complete 'scope newbie, this was absolutely invaluable. Thanks very much indeed.

[@1959Berre]

I just picked up a 466, my first analogue 'storage' Tek. This video is really helpful, my other scope is a basic model that does not have all these features.

[@bradshaw106]

Great video! I had a tektronix 2246a giving to me by my uncle and I'm trying to figure this thing out... Your video helped a lot! Thanks

[@naderhumood]

Great video Thank you very much

[@SDsailor7]

This video gave me a good idea on how the triger controls work on my tek 2245 Thank you

[@mfbfreak]

This, and the part about delayed timebase, taught me so much about using my ancient 454a, without having to work through the several hundred pages of instruction manual :)

[@AntiqueRadioandTV]

Again, another exemplary refresher. Thanks! Tom

[@TheRangerDale]

Great Alan, Another well explain scope controls, Even I may know what they are it was good to hear them again and pickup refresh The old memory lol.Your very easy to understand and very explainable to what you mean , and of course showing is even Better Trig Hold Learn . Good Job Alan Tks 73's dale

[@CharlieTechie]

Well done video, and gained some new knowledge about triggering. Thanks.

[@tmc200527]

Good review of the basic controls.

[@jeremyli2871]

Well done. Good presentation. Thanks for sharing.

[@scytales2548]

Very informative tutorial. Thanks !

[@sheaton319]

Thank you for all your scope vids.

[@jeremyhanley1363]

Thanks you have the best vidoe out there. great job.

[@avatarcollides2day]

Nice. Im in my first year of EE and my first lab is on the oscilloscopeBK Precision 2121

[@sky44david]

Very clear and helpful, just got a rehabbed and calibrated 2465 in the shop.

[@nlimchua]

@w2aew oh yes! I've always been curious about practical real-world applications of the x-y function on the timebase knob. I saw some in your other videos - but more demos please. Also, the rear of my 2465A have ch2 sig out, A gate out, step/auto ext switch, B gate out and ext. Z axis IN. These are a mystery to me. Would love vids about these! thx.

[@J4e8a16n]

The time center button is closed and the T = 2 us. The trigger is set at automatic. I setted the coupling to ch1 instead of normal and I got a steady trigger. Thanks for your answer.

[@yoramstein]

Another great compact pracktical video for the young(old) players.

[@Taran72]

Great Video! Thank you so much! I'm happy I can apply this to my digital scope: I got the same controls :)

[@Antno]

Love it just got a similar scope today it is a tektronix 465m ocillscope so far I like it

[@jjock3239]

I love your videos and review them regularly. I was wondering if you have, or have ever used the Heathkit curve tracer. I would really like to see a video of that. Bob

[@w2aew]

I don't have access to one. If I did, I'd like to compare it to my trusty Tek 576.

[@riccardoiii9882]

Very very interesting video, really useful

[@DorangoBread]

This is very helpfull. You sound very intelligent and made alot of sense. Thank you very much.

[@mykedindeal]

Best tutorial ever. If you ever make a Osciloscopes for Dummys DVD consider me a buyer

[@andrewferg8737]

Seems my old Tektronix 468 may have finally reached its end of days. I've had some minor issues with the buttons and knobs for the past year or so, but nothing insurmountable. Yesterday however, the old workhorse refused to boot-up. The fan came on, and the "beam find" dot indicates the CRT screen is working... but otherwise it appears dead. Any suggestions for a quick fix before I inter this fine machine in the oscilloscope grave yard? Could it just be a blown fuse or something? I apologize for my ignorance. I'm not really knowledgeable enough to attempt a proper diagnoses. Kinda feel like five-year old kid with a flat tire.

[@w2aew]

Common issues would be power supply problems - all fixable. The guys over at VintageTek have been doing a lot of 468 restorations lately - check the videos on their youtube channel.

[@MrBorismans]

Best advanced tutorial! Awesome!

[@thirdarc]

damn, I wish the scope I use at work was that clean!!! Great vid man, vary well explained.

[@TaylorWful]

Hey there w2aw, I did not see any comments for the "single sweep" mode. I did not see anything for it after you went through Auto and Normal. It was roughly around 11:20. Thank you very much

[@w2aew]

Single sweep mode on an old analog scope like this was only useful when used in conjunction with an oscilloscope mounted camera. You'd mount the camera, setup the vertical, horizontal and trigger settings as needed, arm the scope for single sweep and open the shutter on the camera. When the scope got triggered, it would sweep once and the film (or polaroid pack) would capture the trace. Then, close the shutter and develop the picture. Viola - single-shot storage, as it was done back in the day.

[@321reh]

Another Great Video,,,,Thanks Alan!!!!

[@rpbale]

This was super helpful. My Tek 5440 has lost its trigger function on the 5B42 timebase and diagnosing it seems impossible without at least understanding how and why each of the trigger controls work. Now if you could just guide me the my diagnosis too!

[@celtichongy]

excellent material, thank you for that.

[@waynegram8907]

When using the Oscope ch#1 to measure waveforms on the circuit under test, mostly the probe will use the frequency of the waveform as the trigger? What other frequencies or pulse waveforms can you use as a trigger for circuits under test? For digital circuits in order for the oscilloscope to be in sync you have to use the clock frequency as the trigger. I'm not sure what other types of circuits under test would use different frequencies/waveforms or pulse waveforms in order for the oscilloscope to display stable waveforms. Can you think of what type of applications of circuits that use different triggering frequencies that the oscilloscope don't sync up unless you use the external trigger.

[@fijabo]

My only recommendation is that you should sketch the signals. For example, show every event by overlapping the sawtooth waveform of the triggering (sweep) signal and the input signal. It does not have to be fancy, just a manual sketch. A picture worths a thousand words!!! I suspect it is the reason for the thumbs down. The newbies will not understand a narrative of the events and signals. By the way, I gave you a thumb up.

[@Commanderfirstclass]

Thank you for the video, really useful!

[@krisjk999]

Hi, I have a question on the grounding schemes in scopes. In case of an Analog scope is the scope ground connected to the safety ground? So if we try to measure an isolated load (without safety ground connection), is the load being grounded via the scope? I have many follow up questions related to the isolated scope and isolated probes etc. Would be great to see a video on this topic if you dont mind. I came across a webinar from Teledyne lecroy "Probing in Power Electronics What to Use and Why". They mentioned it is not safe to use passive probes in many applications.

[@w2aew]

The short answer to your two questions are yes and yes. The vast majority of scopes have the input/probe ground tues to the chassis/safety ground. So, you do have to aware of this if you are working on something that must remain floating (such as a hot chassis).

[@J4e8a16n]

Hi, An example of this would be usefull. I undestand that the internal signal would adapt itself to the external one? EXT: Signals connected to the EXT Trigger input connectors are used for triggering. External ... must be time-related to the displayed signal for a stable display. It is usefull when the internal signal is too small... or unstable... From the manual.

[@nlimchua]

I've always been curious about many of the controls that come with Tek scopes and the manuals just don't explain them as clearly as you do. Your digital SA video is good too but I'm suffering from info overload! Wish they weren't too expensive so I could have hands-on like you do. B^)

[@Electrolab28Ag]

what can cause an Oscilloscope triggering to erratic, meaning that it does not stay steady, it drifts and move when you try to trigger it.

[@w2aew]

It could be a number of things. Most often, it is caused by the signal being too small (try changing the vertical scale), or there may be noise on the signal. On modern digital scopes, it may mean that a signal path compensation is needed.

[@Electrolab28Ag]

It's an old HP 108T solid state oscilloscope that I acquired from a friend and it does not matter what signal I put in, it still drift from side to side. I tried cleaning the trigger pot and it help a little. I cannot get a schematic for it.

[@w2aew]

I've never heard of a 108T. If you can point me to a picture of the front panel of the scope, I might be able to provide some pointers on how to use it.

[@Electrolab28Ag]

Sorry its not 108T, its180T model.

[@w2aew]

It should be a simple matter of setting up the trigger level, slope and coupling properly. Put the scope in NORM trigger mode (not AUTO), since AUTO trigger can sometimes fool you into thinking that you're triggered. See my video on how the AUTO triggering mode works.

[@AB-yu2tj]

Thank you very much. I wanted to ask your opinion about two scopes. I'll ask the shorter version of the question first. TDS3054 & TDS3034 which one is good enough for a repair shop? Long version: I found a TDS3034B for a very good price. It comes with four probes manuals. But I been looking for a TDS3054B Cuz I was told by others tds3054B is the scope I should get. But I don't have the knowledge yet to know if I need the capabilities or the extra bandwidth of a TDS3054 in the future repairs. Learning how to use scopes is an ongoing project right now. At the moment I have a 100MHz scope w/ 2 probes & component tester. I am trying to get a repair lab going in the shop to complement the field service work that I do full time. The boards I will work on are out of medical and dental equipment or really any boards... CNC machine pcbs,, sterilizers, x-ray boards, chair or table controllers....motor controls, some industrial PC boards..... I can get a tds3034B for 1/2 of what the TDS3054B are going now. Which scope do you think is best for the repair work without over doing it.

[@w2aew]

I think you'll be fine with the TDS3034B - the extra bandwidth on the 3054 isn't really going to buy you much for the work that you're doing.

[@Gringo_In_Chile]

Thinking about picking up a isolation transformer after seeing Dave Jones pointing out potential pitfalls of not using one. What do you think? In a previous comment your response gave me the impression that you rarely use one. I understand what a iso transformer does and how it works, I am just curious if you think its worth getting one to protect both yourself and your scope? Thanks, Ken

[@mikemiller4838]

Awesome video. Thanks again

[@cbradiomizfit7562]

Great video sir

[@ja9060]

I just came across your video series and I love them. I do have a question and it has to do with, in some videos where you are scoping small signals there’s an complete absence of high freq fuzz and genuine high freq interference, spikes, bursts and misc spuria flying through your scope’s display (i.e. cellphone, Wi-Fi - yours or a neighbor’s, cordless phone, active Bluetooth, etc.). When I’m scoping low-level signals on a device or proto board at home I have to contend with what’s “real” and what’s in the air. How do you avoid this airborne trash in your tutorial setups? I have a ~$300 dual-trace + storage Hantek scope and I see all kinds of annoying RFI/EMI stuff. Is it a matter of spending the bucks for something that’s much better as in quiet?

[@w2aew]

There are a few things... In many cases, when probing low level signals, I will use the front-end BW limiting feature of the scope whenever the signal's frequency content is low enough. This keeps the higher frequency RF signals from getting in. Also, make sure the probe's ground leads are as short as possible. On digital scopes, I will sometimes use averaging if the signal is repetitive, that reduces random and uncorrelated noise sources too.

[@W1RMD]

Right now I have a Leader LBO-523 scope. Not a bad scope for one that I picked up a state surplus store 20+ years ago for $35. I would love to be a scope pilot behind a Tektronix 465. Is this, or what is your favorite scope for all practical purposes? Thanks for the great video!

[@w2aew]

It's tough to pick a favorite. The 465 is a workhorse. The 485 has a smaller CRT, but is razor sharp. The 2467 is super overall, but it a bit larger. I go to the 2467 most often (same as 2465 but with a special fast-writing CRT).

[@electronicatutorial]

High end digital scopes have special triggering functions like to trigger on specific events like glitches, especific widths periods, intervals,logic patterns, etc, besides Yokogawas do you know of any other analog scope that can do that?

[@vtradio]

Thanks, nice video. I have a Tek 453 here that I am trying to learn how to use. Checking alignment on a signal generator soon. 73 Paul AA1SU

[@nlimchua]

@w2aew Watched the Basics video. Pleased to finally meet you, Mr. Wolke!

[@supertruckertom]

@w2aew It has one 6121 that came with it and was looking for another. Maybe I can find one NOS but will probably get a new model passive probe from Tek. The Digital Storage portion is fun to usel. I just wish I could find the option 10 GPIB or even option 12 RS-232 serial interface. Tek had an old DOS serial comm program to pull data off of it in the support section. I'll probably be wishing for a long time on those options though. I joined a Tek users group too. Thanks.

[@hyperboogie]

Excellent video and very helpful Thanks.

[@kassima9892]

Dear Sir, I have an analog Tektronix scope 465 facing problem. I want sent you the screenshot of the scope to guess the problem from which section. Is there any possibility to send you the picture of the screen? Or any other option. Thanks in advance

[@dariodraiman6339]

Excellent video. Great job! I have a digital Tek TDS1002B since 2008 and I'm happy with it. Recently I run into the opportunity of buying one of this used Tek 465 (not the B version) for $150. Is it worth buying and having it nowadays?

[@w2aew]

the 465 is a nice analog scope, but $150 seems a bit high for it, especially since it isn't the B model.

[@avatarcollides2day]

@w2aew Thanks. By the way, what are your thoughts on the job market for EEs now and the income they make ? I had a dilemma to study to be either EE or a ChemEng. But i chose this because of the wide span of options it has to offer.

[@thewii552]

@w2aew ohhhhhhhh. Thanks! (I screwed around with knobs and stuff and fiked my trace). Also, knowing what BW limit does will come in really handy, I've needed that feature before and didn't know I had it.

[@aicisha]

Very nice tutorial! But I still have one question: does that single trigger/sweep freezes the screen so that you can make some measurements later on? Like I want to capture and measure an overvoltage spike that is happening once, not periodical like that sinewave you had, how can I do that on an analog scope like yours?

[@w2aew]

Analog CRT based oscilloscopes do not have any kind of storage capability, so the short answer is "no, it doesn't store the screen/waveform for later measurements". The longer answer is that there were *some* analog storage scopes that had a special CRT that would record the trace into the phosphor which would continue to glow (like a glow-in-the-dark toy). The quality of the written waveform would degrade quickly (fade, fuzz or bloom). The *main* way that single-shot waveforms were stored was through the use of a scope camera - a specialized camera that mounted on the front of the scope (in the groove just above the CRT) and recorded the single sweep on a Polaroid picture (self developing B&W picture). The film packs for these cameras would give you 10 pictures.

[@aicisha]

@@w2aew Thank you for your detailed answer! I do own only an analog scope and I had a feeling that the "short" answer to my question would be negative, but I wanted to be sure so I asked. I found and subscribed to your channel about 5 years ago, since then I enjoyed and learned a lot from your content. Greetings from Romania!

[@AlexandreJasmin]

Awesome vid. Though, I'm confused as to why I'd use NORM triggering when displaying both channels in CHOP or ALT mode. Just picking whichever channel is being displayed at that time seems like it would just make the triggering random.

[@davesdigitaldomain]

enjoyed the video. I have the Tektronix 465B and I am in the process of calibrating it. The manual specifies the use of a time mark generator specifically the Tektronix 184. These are almost impossible to get hold of here in the UK, do you know a modern equivalent that I could use?any help from anybody would be greatly appreciated.

[@w2aew]

Any pulse or square wave generator (function gen or AFG) that is capable of producing sufficient output frequency and has a frequency accuracy better than the timebase accuracy on the 465B would be fine. I used an AFG3252 function generator.

[@SDsailor7]

I don't know the first thing about O'copes but I found your video very interesting and informative. I want to learn how to operate one. Does it take a long time to learn how to use one? There is one for sale just like the one on your video and I am interested in buying it. And hopefully I can learn how to use it so I can find out the problems on my stereo and reel to reels, one has the right channel that is out and the other does not record.Cheers/Rob

[@Kilgore40]

That was really helpful. Thanks.

[@w2aew]

Glad to help

[@Gringo_In_Chile]

So if I understand correctly, what your saying is if both the scope and DUT (both grounded with a 3 prong plug) are plugged into the same grounded power strip for example, an isolation transformer is not needed because both are connected to a common ground?

[@littlepandatravel8915]

This machine is ready for museum

[@alanspicertelecom]

F M&M Humans are older that this scope and a lot of us are out here still running around - not in a museum. Um these scopes are very damn well quite still useful. It won't help you use your smart phone though. Smarty pants.

[@littlepandatravel8915]

Yeah sir I agree, but why don't we pick up the customs from stone age then start riding horses

[@alanspicertelecom]

Riding horses is fun ... you don't like riding horses? Anyway a lot of people use these older scopes just fine. Yah if need a newer digital then buy one.

[@thewii552]

On the tektronix 465, is it normal for the trace to be pretty thick? (like about 3mm). Also, what does the astigmatism knob do?

[@edwardhughes352]

very good just bought a used 466 textronix

[@fabts4]

Great vid, I finally learnt what the trig holdoff was :-) That makes me wish I could learn something else. On the Tek 465 (maybe nor the 465B?), there is a "Trig view push" button (the same one that can limit the bandwith if you PULL it) on the VERT MODE group. ...what is it supposed to do?

[@w2aew]

+fabts4 It displays the signal that is being used to trigger the A sweep. Useful if you're using the EXT trigger for example.

[@fabts4]

+w2aew Thanks. What scale does it use? (On my - sick - 465, I don't see how to change its position and volts/div)

[@SDsailor7]

Do you have more videos about the 465B O'scope?If I go and buy it I want to at least have an idea what all the knobs and controls do.Thank you

[@SDsailor7]

@@w2aew Is the probe hooked to the. Test pins on a receiver to see what that part of a circuit is doing or not doing?

[@thewii552]

@w2aew sorry, (I'm a n00b) but what does the BW limit do? (I have been wondering that for a while now

[@nivu007]

Do u have any videos on using single sweep and average mode simultaneously?

[@jenniferw8963]

Trying to trigger a turn of rotary encoder on the A/CLK pin. Does the signal have to keep repeating for it to freeze? Using Tektronix 2225.

[@w2aew]

The 2225 is a conventional, non-storage CRT based oscilloscope. In order to have a "stable" waveform on screen, it has to be repetitive. It can not capture and store a single sweep event.

[@jenniferw8963]

@@w2aew Thank you so much! :) Is there an affordable digital scope which can do it? I've seen digital scopes for around $30 or so. I don't know about any other scopes. I just have this old one. Thx again:)

[@BBMiscerSON1990]

i have mine looking at 12.6V from a step down transformer hooked up to 120V (wall outlet) but its not a perfect sine wave. when i switch to measure the signal coming from the wall, its not a perfect sine wave either, what could be wrong?

[@J4e8a16n]

Does the Owon SDS7102 or another new oscilloscope facilitate the triggering process?

[@Atacama777]

Definitely thumbs up, thanks!

[@nlimchua]

@nlimchua I would appreciate a video to show practical applications for the following controls: Add, Invert, GPIB(gen.purpose interface bus) and the purpose of a button on my 2465A that says, "INIT@50%". thx!

[@dennisqwertyuiop]

whats you sugestion TEKTRONIX 2440 2 channel 500 MS/s digital oscilloscope good bad? looking to buy thanks

[@uni-byte]

Nicely done! However, you didn't show delayed sweep. 😞

[@w2aew]

I've got a couple of videos on using the delayed sweep, such as this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2XVoK1ufrqijKs

[@FullElectronic]

Hi,just a small question: Can i use 475 200mhz crt in a tek 475A 250mhz? Or change the vertical atenuator array in the same order? Or all that in the inverted order? Thank you.

[@w2aew]

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the specific changes between the 475 and 475A to answer this for you. This is a good set of questions for the experts on the TekScopes group on Yahoo! (groups.yahoo.com)

[@FullElectronic]

the difference between these scopes are basicly 50 mhz, I think the rest are equal. Ok thank you.

[@vegadva5744]

Very Clear. Thank you

[@JAQUEOBAUER]

A good old 465....The smell of an opened up Tek is like no other.........

[@J4e8a16n]

Me again, How about external triggering? Or the LINE triggering? How can a frequency trigger another frequency?

[@aliagree8448]

Interesting and applicable

[@J4e8a16n]

I have a signal Under 20Mhz and I pulled out the 20Mhz button on the Tek465. It rolls all the time I cant trigger it (make it still?). Why does this happens? JP

[@garyeggleton1142]

I recently purchased an old Hitachi scope.....and I watched this video because in AUTO.....the signal is near impossible to stop sweeping across the screen .....but in TV modes, it stops and looks normal....