12-volt battery finally died after 15 months - How I revived it with CXY Jump Starter Power Pack.

[@neilt]

I keep all the cables and emergency stuff in the front. It avoids unpacking the boot if I need anything on a journey.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

that's another great point I would hate to have to unpack the boot if it happens when we go on a trip to france later this year with all the luggage we would be packing!

[@forwardfaith]

A couple of things... There was an issue with bluelink servers sending too many actions to the car's software, but i think that has been resolved. Also, if you leave the key fob too close to the car or inside, then the car keeps trying to communicate with it. And then if the HV battery gets below a certain % jt wont charge the 12v. Then theres the dreaded ICCU failure, but if that happened, you wouldn't be able to drive the car until the ICCU was replaced. Im about 1 year in with a SE model in the US at 15k miles and so far no problems.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I have a feeling it was blue link grabbing updates and draining the 12v battery. As can't think of anything that would drain in such a short time. Luckily not had the ICCU pop up.

[@drix82961]

Do you know how far away the key fob needs to be from the car to prevent communication with the car? Just curious…

[@MrEV]

Welcome to the club!

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Not sure if it's the club i want to join but thanks 😂

[@MrNeeds]

Tbh, if you left the car at 10% before going to bed, it probably didn’t have the opportunity to charge the 12v battery, I don’t think it charges it if the HV battery is below a certain percentage.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I would have though the 12v would have been topped up after the long drive and it was set to charge in 5 hours’ time. Maybe i just caught the 12v charge cycle at a bad time when we arrived home and with the cold weather and the low SOC it was the perfect storm? Still I think you're right about the HV battery not charging the 12v when stationary at a low SOC, I just assumed it would? be good to know what the limit is.

[@MrNeeds]

@@LemonTeaLeaf yea, me too, I’ve got a 2022 Kona 64Kw, I always pop out in the morning to move the car and it’s always charging about 6am, maybe that’s when it decides to charge, it is supposed to charge while driving as well but if you were using aircon and lights because of the darkness, maybe it favoured that over charging the 12v system.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

​@@MrNeeds If it happens again I can start narrowing down the issue. But fingers cross it’s a one-off issue.

[@MrNeeds]

@@LemonTeaLeaf keep us updated James

[@bradconnor1970]

Yes, this was my first thought when I saw that your traction battery was at 8%. Below 20%, I believe, the 12v top-up cycle is suspended. Why the 12V battery should discharge so quickly after being driven is concerning, though. I know that on an ice car the alternator will basically charge the battery to full when driving and then keep it brimmed, but is that how it happens on an EV? I suspect that it still runs on a cycle, either time or usage based. Did you finish your previous drive - when you went below 20% - in the dark with the lights on and other 12V systems engaged? Hence it was already partially drained by the time you parked up?

[@SuprimUpadhyay]

Same issue with my car too. Gave it to the service center and they still have my car. Its been 20 days now and i am driving rental car provided by Hyundai service center. And i am paying for the gas but saving receipts might claim it with Hyundai later on.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Mine seems fine now hopefully its just a one off, but for you 20 days for a 12v battery drain issue is ridiculous!

[@michaelrobsimonbyrne4068]

thanks for the information on the 12 volt battery

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

No problem 👍

[@alexdalgleish1061]

Believe 12v battery from new a brand never heard of and comes with a year's warranty. Not worth the risk. I'd just buy another off main dealer.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I'll have to check with the dealer to see if its under warrently? Not sure what the warrently time for 12v

[@alexdalgleish1061]

@@LemonTeaLeaf believe battery only a year. Paint and electrics 2.

[@GarryMobi]

Just got mine back yesterday after 2 weeks of diagnosis and fixing ... according to the dealer, on mine (~4 months old) was a bad ground connection, and also the 12V Battery sensor calibration was off ... hoping the problem is fixed, will need to see ... What I noticed before the car died initially, the 12V SoC values on the API calls were all over the place, with surprisingly the charge going DOWN when being driven ... when the battery died the first time, the SoC value wasn't delivered anymore via the API ... after the fix, I once again get the values ... currently steady at 91%

[@akf2000]

Good forward thinking not leaving it in the boot! And I didn't know there were rechargeable jump starters, good to know.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

It was handy except for the long delivery time due to it happening on New Year’s Day! Saves asking someone to help jump the car with traditional jump leads and if you get caught out in the middle of nowhere.

[@markymarkreviews]

My I5 P45 is 16 months old and just gone past 20,000 miles.. Not had a flat battery yet so I really must be one of the few left!. Had yours had the battery software updates from a few months ago? Have no idea if it has made any difference as I have never had a problem. Bought a battery booster (different make to yours) but have never used it. I keep it in the cabin between the front seats as it a huge cubby there. And when 12v battery dies ideally you want it in the cabin (warmer so will hold its charge better) than under frunk or in the boot which will be struggle to get to if battery is dead for the latter. Everyone who gets this tends to always have a low Soc under 10%. It is totally unacceptable it is still happening as Kona ,w-Niro etc had similar 12v battery issues.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I blame bluelink I'm sure it's draining the 12v as our Kona has zero issues and zero bluelink as it's an early model. I think the 12v normally gets topped up fine in summer with the solar roof on our p45 just unlucky this NYD.

[@chrisyates399]

It seems utterly bizarre to me that charging the traction battery doesn't charge the 12V and that you would need THIRD battery pack to 'jump start' the car. It's a BEV with it's own 70 kWh + lithium ion battery for goodness' sake! Absurd that you need a 1 kWh back up in my view.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Tell me about it, using old technology in a Morden car seems backward but then again it's easier for them to use a 12v instead of reinventing the wheel 🙁

[@blobstrom]

You'll need a new 12v battery. Taking it down to less then 4v will have reduced the capacity dramatically. It should get charged by the traction battery as the system will monitor it, but it is a catch 22 situation the 12v battery is powering it's own monitoring equipment. If it senses it needs to turn on the traction battery to charge itself then it may not be able too. I know on the LEAF there is a contactor that fires in to allow the traction battery power to the car electronics (battery charging and heatpump compressor) and i assume this is the same for all EV's of course it could be an electronic switch (MOSFET etc) but either way they need the 12v to have enough power to enable them. It's a vicious circle.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

If it repeats itself then i'll definetly replace the 12v battery as thats the only thing i can think of that's dodgy. when i did get the car running the traction battery chargered up the 12v even with such low SOC @8% and again i set the zappi to charge the car in roughly 5 hours time. But this time I checked to make sure it actually started and it did? very strange.

[@davidbarr5783]

Shot in the dark here but, assuming it is keyless entry, is the key fob within 20ft of the car? There was an issue with Toyota Auris's a few years back having flat 12v batteries as the car was constantly pinging to the key fobs because there were too close and the car was expecting them to access the car. Other than than, could that recent -9c cold spell have damaged the 12v battery. I would check the amps of the 12v battery and not just voltage to get a better health reading.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

The key was hanging in the house in the usual place so i don’t think it’s that, but it was cold that day and i did time the car to charge in around 5 times which is a very short time for the 12v to drain. Just strange especially after a long drive from Manchester to Scotland?

[@indianwhitetiger]

This Happend with me too after using Car for 14 mts and driving around 37000 Kms , i only jump started it and then no issue after that

[@jannorgaard561]

Lithium batteries will not accept charging below two plus degrees! - so that is the reason why AGM batteries are used. (but Lithium HEAT exists, which has a built-in heating foil that heats up the battery first and then the BMS open for charging the battery itself) According to Hyundai (Norway); it is only when the main battery charges OVER 80% that the 12-volt battery also starts charging. (but, the 12-volt battery is constantly being charged while driving). My Ioniq5 had to get a new 12-volt battery this week (after 2 years / 35,000 km) (I tested, with measuring instrument, when my wife turned off the motor, got out of the car and locked it. The battery dropped from 13 to 10 volts pretty much immediately and we had to use a jump starter)

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Thanks for the info Jan, I've bought myself a battery monitor and I'll test what Hyundai (Norway) said to the the test.

[@lplt]

its most deff the headlights, if its not in auto theres no reason for them to turn off.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I left it on manual since them to see if it would happen again and it hasn't, just weird it happening after a long drive (200+ miles)

[@crackers2767]

It's not a problem I've had yet but I have a jump starter under the bonnet just in case. There seem to be a number of suggested causes being reported. One related issue seems to be if the EV battery is low and left for a period of time, the car will not charge the 12V battery. I've seen various figures quoted on social media ranging from 15-30%, anyone know if this is correct? I noticed in this case the main battery was down to 9%

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

The strange thing was we got back at 5pm after a 200+ mile drive and I set the car to charge at 10:30pm at Octopus cheap rate that evening and it went flat between those times? so the car should have topped the 12volt?

[@andy1243ify]

Do you know what the manufacturing date of your i5 is? There is a known issue with iccu for i5s manufactured after 2022 may

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

This was the very first batch for Europe sept 2021 as it's the limited edition Project45.

[@tiborerdelyi3504]

the first edition AWD from 2021.04 never had such problems, thou drivning every day 🙂

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

2021.09 never happened before till the new year! 😭 would love to have been the only KZbinr that never had this happen to them before, but it wasn't to be 😔

[@roberthobo4871]

this happened to me. 2 yrs and 72000 miles. hyundai said battery was fine as the large battery was powering it so it always showed 100 percent. the battery was bad and i bought a new battery for 250 at orielly and installed myself as they wont do electric cars . and i bought this jump starter also if it happens again. so if you get 12 volt battery mesage low, just get a new battery and stop going to dealer three times and playing games.

[@AndyM...]

Thanks for sharing your experience, with all the onboard tech and well over a couple of years production, this should have been remedied by now, as the battery went dangerously low, have you thought about a Lithium replacement ?

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Thanks, just had a look at the Lithium Iron Phosphate 12v battery and it looks like a good thing to replace the 12v lead battery when it packs in. The price of them looks good also with a 50Ah one roughly double a 60ah 12v lead battery.

[@AndyM...]

@@LemonTeaLeaf Sounds like a plan, looking to replace the lead battery with Lithium for my EV6 when I eventually get the car !!!

[@garycassap-brown7829]

Just thinking of your recent trip James and a thing I noticed with my former Kia E-niro, when at charging stops when I got out the car & stopped the Public Charger as soon as the Public Charger is stopped the car defaults back to the 12v battery so if there is elecyrical systems on Climate/Heating, Lights,Instruments just anything electrical including keys & sensors are all pulling from the 12v battery until the car is fired up again (a substantial load!) Therefore repeated at subsequent charging stops can be quite a drain. Since noticing this I always turn off the car before unplugging the car and restart the car when I get back in. This seemed to lessen the drain on 12v battery and I always by habit now turn off the car when unplugging the charger at home and at Public Chargers.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

That's interesting I've always just unplugged leaving the car running at a rapid charger, I'll keep that in mind next time I go on a long trip and for that day I did 2 rapid charges.

[@Notagain640]

The way the i5 monitors and maintains the 12v battery seems less than perfect. At least you had an emergency back up!

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

it's not great is it, you’d think with modern technology they’d find a way to eliminate the need for a 12v battery

[@Notagain640]

@Lemon-Tea Leaf my Enyaq iV80 also has a 12v lead acid battery. I guess they all need some kind of low voltage system to run the computers etc, but you would think maintaining a 12v system in an EV would be so simple.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

@@Notagain640 I think you're right its for all old ICE tech that still used in modern EVs like wipers, ignition and cassette tapes... ok maybe not the last one 😆

[@aftonline]

@@LemonTeaLeaf No ignition either as no ICE engine.

[@MesoScale]

@@aftonline No ignition, correct, but a start up routine which also requires power

[@mychihuahuablueandcocoands7382]

My lasted 11 months before hyundai replaced it, no reason why it kept draining? Hyundai kept it overnight and said it was literally faulty even though the charged it overnight it lasted 3 hrs before it drained so they just replaced it

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Thats great they replaced it, Mine seems fine for now. i'll be keeping a tab on it over winter/spring.

[@Brinslade]

I heard that if the battery is low, it will stop putting charge into the 12v battery. It might be an adjustment in the vehicle battery setting.

[@mikeeaglesham]

Hi James, thanks for the video. I'm writing down a list of instructions incase this happens when my wife is alone using the car. A question, how long do you leave the booster connected to the 12v battery after you've started the car? This battery problem hasn't happened to us yet but I just want to be prepared. Cheers, Allan

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

when the Jump Starter pack is in the green-ready state it'll start clicking. turn the car on as usage as soon as possible, once the car has started and it says ready on the driver's screen you can unplug the jump starter pack as it'll have done its job and won't be feeding any more power to the 12v battery. Hopefully, she won't need to use it.

[@mikeeaglesham]

@@LemonTeaLeaf Brilliant, thanks James👍😁

[@russellgilchrist3951]

Just a thought, to charge your power bank, you could plung in at home of if away then plug it into the 3 pin socket at the rear seats. Also can you not use a smart battery charger and charge the cars batter, thanks

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I was thinking of using the USB in the car to charge the battery when away but 3 pin plug would be better like you said as I can use a 20w brick as that's the max charge speed of the jump starter battery.

[@russellgilchrist3951]

@@LemonTeaLeaf but are USB not switched off unless the power is on, some cigarette sockets are on and some are off when car is switched off

[@aftonline]

What I don't get is why this guy had to buy a third battery when he already has a huge EV traction battery in the car? Clearly there is something wrong with the transformer that drops the voltage down to 12v. I even wonder if there was a vehicle to load port somewhere in the car, you could just plug in a trickle charger and recharge the 12V battery that way. Of course, that shouldn't be necessary as the 12V battery should always be charged as long as the traction battery has charge in it.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I could have used a standard jump-start cable and used the other car to jump-start it. The reason I got the jump starter battery pack is that if I get caught out in the middle of nowhere if it happens again I can quickly get the car back up and running without calling/flagging someone down to help. But yes it's crazy needing a backup battery to charge a 12v when I have 73kwh under the floor!🤔

[@shaunmckenna1923]

Hello James yes I have been reading about this problem does the Ioniq5 not send you a warning that the 12 v is getting low ? the reason I ask is I still have my Ioniq5 on order its been 14 months now and no sign of seeing it until the end of this year crazy, however I got so feed up waiting I was able to buy a Genesis GV 60 and sometimes when in am sitting for a long time waiting for a ferry playing music etc the car with tell me to start the motor to charge the 12 v the cars are the same platform so maybe that was something that Genesis added, the interesting thing is the Genesis does not have a rear wiper but they put a low rear spoiler which works so good back window stayer very clean. Thanks James .

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I had the fixed for the charge flap drain with an update so this is something else. Yes I get the warning when sitting in the car but nothing via blue link. If they linked it to the app with pop message it would be handy.

[@howardschoenberger3526]

You mentioned that it took something like 24% of the charge units power to jump the car battery, but that seems odd. I am assuming the 12V battery in the IoniQ 5 is used just like the 12V was used in my 2002 Prius. The 12V was only needed to boot the computer, not to actually turn over an engine. Thus, I would have thought you could have connected the jump unit and turned it on and then immediately while it was still connected push the start button in the car and you would be good to go. The car would then charge the 12V battery from the traction battery once on.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

The jump start kit is made for ICE cars so each time you power it up it dumps the 24% of power to the 12v. As you can hear the car clicking. Even when I missed my chance to turn the car on the first time it dropped 22%.

[@michaelrobsimonbyrne4068]

did your car go when it charged the battery

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

It didn't get that far, it was set to charge in 5 hours after plugging in at off peak rate. So the 12 volt died between that time.

[@AndrewLumsden]

Andrew Till had this problem. - Watch his video and solution here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJSxg2V9qJuih6s

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Thanks just watched his video and clicked on his link to buy one myself as I'd like to keep an eye on it and maybe find out if it was user error or something with the car and how it charges the 12v battery. If its the cars software I'll be reporting that to Hyundai.

[@zxyqwerty123]

Hy-un-dai - too late to start trying to Americanise us Brits now 😂 unless they want to change the name to Hunday

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

Ha! Its funny as every time I say Huhn Day I pause to think 😆

[@75rolands]

Americanise? It's closer to the Korean pronunciation.

[@u.e.u.e.]

😉👍

[@u.e.u.e.]

Is the 12 V batterie a known issue of this car? I didn't follow this in detail. 🤔 Did your jump starter get down "to" or "by" 26 %? How long did it take to bring the battery by 10 Volts up?

[@crackers2767]

Unfortunately yes, there are plenty of reports of this problem on social media. In the US there are a number of people off the road including cases where owners are forcing Hyundai to buy back their car under Lemon Law.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

the jump starter got down to 26% but each time i tried it would sap around 22% of the jump starter battery.

[@u.e.u.e.]

@@LemonTeaLeaf How long did it take you to re-start your car?

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

@Crackers hopefully its a one off for me. just strange after a long drive and charging timer was set in the car to start in 5.5 hours which never happened as the 12v died inbetween. Think i'll check the 12v when im at a low SOC after a long trip next time.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

@@u.e.u.e. when i did it correctly and press the jump button down for 3 seconds I quickly went to press the start button in the car and it fired up. my first mistake I took to long messing with camera before it stopped and drained the jump starter battery around 20-25%

[@triplextriplexxx8225]

seems to me hyundai ioniq 5 is nowhere near reputation of tesla model 3 . They can shame themselfes to not be able to fix simple problem like this

[@NameNaameNameeNaamee]

So they still haven't fixed that bug?!?

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I think they fixed the charge flap drain this is something else but still not ideal.

[@adrianpike4649]

Perhaps you need a software update? Check out Andrew Till's videos (Mr EV) for more information.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

I've had all the same update as Andrew and more as the last dealer update was in September for the battery precondition so I got all the other update applied at the time. I just think I caught the 12v charge cycle at a bad time and maybe the low SOC of the car wouldn't charge the 12v when the car was turned off? the car SOC is at 52% now and its not died on me yet so thats a good think. might need to do some low SOC test on the 12v?

[@johnjackman2743]

@@LemonTeaLeaf You may be interested in a recent attachment @#8 on the Speak EV Forum for the Ioniq 5, with a Post headed '12v battery dead after 4 days of standing.'

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

@@johnjackman2743 amazing just had a look at that post and it all makes sense why it didn't charge the 12v and helps narrow down why mine died in the first place.

[@airborne63]

Yeah, it's a good battery pack, I use it here in Canada, where the temperatures can get to -50c......and I still only have problems with the battery when I leave something 'on' for a couple of days without driving the car. The Jump pack works flawlessly, and I keep it charged up from the cigar lighter after use. It starts my 4.6 litre V8....no problem. Electric vehicles don't survive well in -40 to -50 temperatures....the main batteries can't warm up enough for the car to accept a charge....and ....at those temperatures, public charging stations...don't work. Ahhhh, technology. I'll stick with my V8 until they 'get the hang' of electric vehicles.

[@LemonTeaLeaf]

The jump starter battery has some kick to it for sure and I like the ruggedness of it. -50c is crazy cold! In Scotland I've only experience -40c once. normally around -10c here in winter. the Ioniq5 BMS for the traction battery has a heater that kicks in if below -5c so it'll keep it at a safe running temp and with the weather this winter dipping to -11c my range in the Ioniq 5 has been around 190-200 miles though not sure how much of a drain it’ll be for the BMS at -40c to -50c I’m sure the range would drop a bit more as in summer I get around 250-260 miles of range.

[@afml7049]

Mine has gone too. Service terrible. Phantom drain is the problem. Inferior engineering. 2022 Ioniq 5 ultimate with tech pack

[@Nerdificationing]

Hee Yun Day

[@tinyexcell]

Don't buy electric