1292 The UK E Bike Laws And The ADO A20

[@simonbean1264]

There no difference between the two models as you probably know. The ' 250' watt EU version simply has the controller set to 25 km/pH and the throttle disabled. The international version has the throttle enabled and the speed unlocked. As for motor power this is the really silly bit, they both use the same battery and controller 36volt battery and 15 amp controller so both give peak power of 540 watts, the motor has no part to play in power output and it's rating is irrelevant . The law states ' nominal' ( ie named) power of 250w but there is no such thing as a 250 watt motor its power depends on the battery and controller , the most common ' legal' setup being 36 volt with a 15 amp controller so well over 500watts in practice . The NCM Moscow e bike for example is perfectly legal in UK and advertised as 250 watts, in practice it is 48 volts x 15 amp controller , so actually over 700 watts power output but as I say this is true of all legal e bikes as long as the motor is stamped 250w the real power output is irrelevant.

[@BramleyProductions]

I really love your channel. I have been riding e-bikes now for 20+ years, and I have been campaigning for ages about the ridiculous laws and situation of e-bikes in the UK. Also, replacement battery costs that bike firms want to charge as they say batteries must or should be replaced every four years! Yet I got six +years out of one of my 36-volt lithium battery packs. I even have spoken to our local police force, who say they have only advised people up to now they are riding an illegal e-bike on the UK roads; I did hear of an American serviceman that had come out of a USAF base in Suffolk on an e-bike that was not UK road legal he was told never to ride the bike off the base again after being stopped twice on this high powered e-bike by the police there. The situation was even worse in Northern Ireland as there the law was you could not ride any e-bikes as the parliament had not been sitting, so the law was never passed there in 2016 so I was told! And someone comment on one of my videos they had been told and stoped by the police there they must not ride this bike on the roads in NI. But that might have changed now. It's just crazy! I have written to the Dept of Transport, and the Minister Of Transport Many times re this issue. But you just get a bog-standard reply saying the whole e-bike situation is going to be reviewed but they have been saying that for the last 3 years now. I love your and Luke's videos, so thanks for all your hard work and efforts. Some of your videos go over my head a little bit, but I feel I have learned so much from your channel and been entertained, which is what KZbin is all about. Thanks, Kev.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Hiya Kev - like you I really don't understand why they would make it so difficult - aren't we supposed to be looking at alternative transport? Sometimes it seems to me the rhetoric is all about going green but the practice is all about something else entirely - on a side note I am glad you like the channel and thanks for taking the time to say so - all the best and cheers

[@Coxeysbodgering]

I think the issue is that a minority of cyclists and silly kids and irresponsible parents have caused the problem. When I cycled everywhere I stopped at traffic lights, didn't ride on paths, walked across crossings etc but now especially in city centers cyclists are causing accidents, breaking the highway code and the the car driver is the one penalised. If companies were more responsible like Ado and marketed and informed correctly instead of causing a craze and making the most profit like the escooters and hover boards. Accidents happen so I think there should be some sort insurance for cyclists not for public liability but themselves, if you hit a pot hole or damaged road ironwork and you end up in hospital and out of work, yes you can go to the parasitic ambulance chasers against the council but that will take months if not years. Where I live in rural villages several parked cars have been damaged by escooters, I've nearly been knocked over by a commercial one the size you made from scratch in a shopping mall. There has to be accountability and the hover board and escooters are ruining for the pedal assist

[@BramleyProductions]

@@ThinkingandTinkering Thanks, Rob for your kind reply. Yes, to me, the whole situation is utter madness regarding the rules and regulations to e-bikes in the UK. Now, to add to all this after the first UK Covid lockdown, the UK government launched a massive campaign to get people into and on to cycles and e-bikes. In May /Jun 2020, they announced in time they wanted to cut the price of new e-bikes bikes by one third and make cycling safer and more available to everyone. 6 months on, I contacted the " UK Dept Of Transport" To ask what had happened to this idea and grand plan? Particularly this idea of reducing e-bike prices by a more significant green subsidy. In time they did answer, but all I was told was it was still all under review! All it seems they did was waste vast sums of money and annoy other road users by making daft pop-up cycle lanes with cones on sections of already busy roads to make bike lanes. In some cases, this cost thousands of pounds to put in place and then cyclists would not use them, and this just added to more car and van and lorry congestion and then hate on these already busy roads to cyclist what a waste. Many were taken away within weeks and months of being done. And still without any clear review of the laws on e-bikes. I'm not someone who knocks the car and van and lorry drivers the invention of the internal combustion engine must be one of the greatest inventions of the 19th and on into the 20th century with its developments. I do find it sad to mind, however, how cyclists get treated! OK, sure, there are many bad cyclists as there are many bad road users in general. I used to teach Year 6 children on a Bikeabilty Course. But just to share an example, I ride my Volt e-bike on a local Cycle path. This has big round blue signs saying cycling is permitted on this path. My Volt Pulse e-bike is totally UK road legal like yours. A few months ago, a guy in a diesel old Landrover Discovery saw me indicate off the main road onto this cycle path for a short stretch. This path runs alongside the main road. This guy in this Discovery did know more than coming blasting by me, then drove up onto the path, blocking my way, then got out and started to lecture me that as I was on an e-bike, I should not be riding on this designated cycle path. I pointed out to him that I was riding a street road legal UK EU e-bike, which was classed as a peddle assisted cycle, and I had every right to be on this path! Thankfully I kept calm and very polite as he seemed to get more irate. By this time, a woman and two children on cycles had pulled up behind me. The woman was also on a folding e-bike and just happened to be an off duty police sergeant and who soon told this drive unless he got himself and his vehicle off the said cycle path, she was going to report him. He did know more than disappear very quickly! We have to get away from this whole sad attitude to others, very much like your smoking experience! Both of cyclists abusing roads and other road users abusing cyclists! If you ever get the chance, or maybe you have been, but go to the Netherlands and go to a place like the City of Utrecht where the cycle is King everyone respects cyclists I have some Dutch friends who laugh at the fact I feel I have to wear a cycle helmet very few people do over there! There are up to 125,000+ journeys each day just in the City of Utrecht on cycles. Here in the UK, we just get laughed at or worse. Early this year, I was told I could go and have a Covid jab at a big vacation centre that had been set up on an industrial estate a few miles away. Now I don't own a car or want one nothing against cars or drives like cyclists the vast majority are kindly friendly humans. So I phoned this Vaccination centre up and asked did they have any cycle parking on site? The woman just laughed and said, no, who on earth wants to come on a cycle! I do say I she laughed and put the phone down on me. How do we change? I wish I could answer that one! I think we have to start by just being more sociable and more tolerant of each other before we can move on. I look forward to seeing how you get on out and about on your super new ADO A20'. All the best, Kev.

[@Awakend7]

There’s no point in writing to the gov to change things or for permission, we do not need their permission to do things because their legislation is not law, when you learn legalese if your taken to court you can win, just don’t comply with their ridiculous policies, I certainly don’t.

[@kafkaian]

Reported for smoking by a hater? My goodness, there are some absolute 🔧 s floating around the Internet with nothing else better to do. Thanks for the info Robert, very useful as I'm looking to upgrade too

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I know mate - how strange some folks are - and I am glad dit was helpful - cheers

[@martinX74]

Maybe we should call the hater's kindergarden and let them know they are missing one af their kids 🤣

[@ambersmith6517]

@@ThinkingandTinkering what comes around goes around lets speed it up lol

[@j.f.christ8421]

They've always existed. BigClive told the story of some retired knobhead "inspector" who set up a camera to record a house being built next door. Eventually found a bit of scaffolding was the wrong colour or something so reported it and got them fined. Tosser.

[@patomahony9747]

@@j.f.christ8421 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Some SAD PPL out there.

[@bobbod8069]

I understand limiting the speed, but putting a 250w limit on the motor puts serious restrictions on cargo and delivery bikes.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

250w In my area in south Wales makes hill climbs a serious task even with the motor. Like it can do it sure but I'm limited to 8mph or so unless I want to put in some serious leg power which by that point kind of defeats the purpose of an ebike. My 750w technically not road legal ebike will do those same hills at 17mph or so with less leg effort and that makes me feel much safer riding it on the roads. 250w only seems good on flat city streets hence why I break the law and ride something a lot more powerful. Yes I have a cbt licence and car license and ride a motorbike so I'm skilled enough to ride something powerful safely. I think they should allow 750w up to 28mph which is what my bike does with a simple paid for safety test.

[@riskybiscuits1122]

cant smoke in your own lab? thats wild, youre videos are awesome Robert, you have inspired me to do so much more than play games on my downtime, because of your videos ive bought a 3d printer, loads of graphite foil, every electrolyte i could, non stop experiments and creation with my kids, i want to build an airship but its not allowed where i live

[@riskybiscuits1122]

thought it would be cool to use an airship with one of your antannae electrodes to power an electrolyzer for essentially " free " H2, im working on making a PEM hydrogen fuel cell to heat and power a tent ill be staying in while helping my father with a house hes building way up north in the cold area, all thanks to you

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I know crazy eh - apparently because there are two of us it's a 'workplace' check out that membrane vid I just did mate - you should find it really useful

[@rogerbraintree9552]

A time will come when the law is considered an offence and is subsequently banned.

[@Brunosdad]

You cant smoke in your own van even if you work alone as its classed as a place of work. 😆

[@marcogallazzi9049]

Next proyect: Smoke extractor helmet suitable for an E-Bike.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I am on board with that lol

[@rogerstarkey5390]

There's also the difference between a centre drive motor (at the crank) and Hub drive motor to consider. With 7+ gears to drive through the centre drive motor could be "more effective" than a hub drive.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

for sure mate - it does seem little random

[@johankriel8883]

Though not a smoker I learnt to roll cigars during that phase of lockdown when selling cigarettes and alcohol was prohibited by decision of the Corona Command Council. The idea was to hand them to smokers as gesture to put them at ease. I'm a terrible brewer but its on the bucket list for next lockdown.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

shouldn't be long now if the news is right!

[@DavidWilsonOutandAbout]

There is also some confusion as to the ADO A20's sold in the UK. I ordered one from a UK supplier, then realised that it was listed as a 350w DC motor model. I contacted them to cancel my order but was told that the e-bike label states it is 250w, unlockable to 350w. I have now noticed several UK suppliers listing the A20+ as 350w!.

[@dtz1000]

We have fewer freedoms here in the UK than they do in less developed countries.

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

Nice one, Rob. Thanks for the summary. The only things missing from your A20 are the ash-tray mount and cup-holder. Since I first checked up on e-assisted/powered 'bikes' (early 2000s) the 'rules' have dodged about like a swarm of blue-arsed flies. 250w applied/geared properly is more than enough for most folk even in hilly Sheffield etc. But locally there are a few riders on some compact/sporty/off-road e-bikes that are 1000w+, and they can go like sh*t off a shovel! At the mo they are sensible riders, but I don't expect that to last. Fortunately for most would-be a-holes they are not 'cool' (or loud enough) to be popular; YET... They are all also VERY nick-able, so you can't park/chain them and expect to return to them, with the exception of the 'cargo' bikes which are not so seen as cool. One of the biggest problems faced by all cyclists is still the attitude of car/van drivers, and the appalling road surfaces (tchah!). Don't even get me started on tram-lines. My own DIY e-bike kit (on an old Trek 850) is demount-able, leaving only a short chain and spur gear on the frame, motor/g-box/battery all come off en-mass; so no nick-ability factor. ;-)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice one mate!

[@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse]

Strange, you should mention other bikes. I was driving into Manchester last year at the posted 30 mph and got passed by an electric cyclist "on the pavement" doing well in excess of that speed. Like these scooters flying round between traffic these days the regulation of them is completely not existent.

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

@@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse Yeah, I wasn't having a go at most drivers, just the poo-tubers, but it only takes one, and my crumple-zones are me; and yes, I do know that poo-tubers includes plenty of 'cyclists' and scootists. It seems you just can't regulate a-holism. Cars/motor-bikes/e-scoots etc, shouldn't be regulated just on engine cc/wattage, it should be 'power available' at the road/tyre interface; straight engine cc is a poor indicator of performance depending on the actual engine and once its gone through gears etc. You get a 250w motor doing 12-15k rpm+, and 'juiced' for a few seconds through the right gears, and you'll lift the front wheel setting off (obviously not sustainable), but it still averages 250w.

[@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse]

@@bikerfirefarter7280 Hi bud yes I wasn't having a go at cyclist (despite their many faults :) ) It was just a general observation that there is no real legal checks on either electric cycle or scooter at use within the UK unless there is an injury involved ,even though the only "legal" scooters are within the trial rental areas around London.

[@Stuartrusty]

The whole personal electric vehicle thing has clearly not been thought through, and you're right Rob, it is a mess. I wonder, as a regular cyclist myself who is quite capable of outputting 300 watts (I have a power meter on my bicycle) and peaks around 650 watts whether I am actually illegal? I've checked all over my legs and cannot find any manufacturer's power output label! 😄

[@RaperJason]

Just print one up and stick it somewhere or better still get a tattoo 😄

[@paguristes5278]

Effectively penalises the less well? Surely it should not be about power output, rather about acceleration and top speed. These depend upon weight to power ratio.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I suppose you could tattoo your backside mate. lol - careful they might make that a law lol

[@Free__Speech]

@Advanced Driving 😂🤣

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

I can easily pedal 30mph on my road bike on the flat yet a legal ebike can only travel at half of that before the motor cuts out. I don't know a single person who has a road legal ebike and they've never had any trouble. The police would not be able to enforce it.

You know what's funny about these laws? The 250 number. They, the ones living of tax money, seem stuck at quarter basis for some reason I'm too dumb to comprehend. 250 watts, 25km/h, 250 gram... Anyway, if the average cyclist can actually put about 250w on the pedal, some can put a kilowatt for sometime and cruise at 700 something watts. I can push a regular heavy bicycle to s 40km/h cruise without much sweat and get the geebies at 70km/h on a modern 6kg roadie... And I don't see cars having their engines stop if they go over the speed limit in that area. It's not a regulatory mess. It is designed to keep the gas pump pumping.

[@dtz1000]

The anglo saxons always put safety above freedoms. It is in their nature as you can see from the behaviour of the snitch who i am 99% sure is English. I mean, who does that kind of thing other than the English?

[@michaelrowland6538]

There as been a lot of confusion the law of using a throttle on your electric bike, the use of throttle only on an electric bike is illegal and is counted as a moped or motorcycle and their laws, but there is a legal way to use a throttle on an ebike. It you are using the throttle at the same time your peddiing and not sorely relying on the throttle to propell your cycle, there is no law saying you can't fit a throttle to your cycle or using it to assist you peddling your cycle as long as the motor assistance doesn't exceed 15,5mph. If you use the throttle without peddling and the cycle is propelling itself then it is illegal, if you are using the throttle with the peddle assist especially going up hill then it is legal as long as motor doesn't excced 15.5mph or is over 250w.

[@aspudkicker]

Nice info thankyou. Ebikes and E-motorbikes are of interest to me. Im currently researching motorbike retrofit conversions, as lithium battery/cell prices reduce its becoming tempting to do so, especially with the recent petrol/diesel fuel scares of recent times. The idea I have is to use the E-motorbike battery as a back up incase of power outages so that I can keep my fridge cool, the house lights on and the gasboiler electrically energised.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice thinking mate - it was something on my mind too!

[@stubluesjhb1]

When you go live on Twitch just go sound only for a smoke - we will all understand

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

Or just put the ciggy down for 5-mins. Or invent a long cig holder, and smoke through your arse?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

@@ThinkingandTinkering if smoking is so bad for you, how come it cures kippers?

[@TechKnowCSS]

@@bikerfirefarter7280 WHAT IS "kippers"?

[@123salivop]

Laws changes need to happen related to E-bikes.

[@SteampunkGent]

I bought my folding e-bike about 30 months ago. I use it for commuting to local towns and villages in Cornwall. The big advantage is that, as long as it in a bag, it can be carried on busses and trains as hand luggage.

[@UKPINOY]

HI there what folding e-bike you got?

[@SteampunkGent]

@@UKPINOY Called a "Basics" 35v, 14 Ah battery, 5 gear, 20" wheels

[@trollking202]

I like the green trailer 😮

[@cragmc8386]

Hi Robert, great video and you are correct. The laws relating to ebikes are farcical. I have a 1000w rear hub ebike and, fortunately, have never had any trouble from the cops. When I am riding on roads I always have it set to max speed 25km/hr. My argument if stopped on the basis of the motor size would be well the max speed is set to 25km/hr - try it if you like. And would you arrest for example a porsche driver or a Tesla driver because their car has an extremely powerful motor? If you're not breaking the speed limit or riding like an idiot, how can they justify collaring you? I'm sure the current laws are hampering the take up of electric bikes to some extent and could do with revision

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I am sure the laws are - the situation makes people hesitant and that will be forcing down sales for sure - what I think is odd is how we are supposed to be 'thinking green' getting out of cars and looking at alternatives yet we are actually discouraged to do so in practice despite all the rhetoric

[@Steve_Coates]

Power ratings of electric motors are fairly meaningless anyway, some of the 'legal' 250W hub motors can be driven at 750W continuous by using a different controller and using a ferrofluid coolant like statorade.

[@overcorpse]

@@ThinkingandTinkering Precisely. I have looked into getting an e-bike to replace my 125cc scooter. The utter craziness of the laws left me bewildered and I ended up ditching the idea and opting to get a new petrol scooter.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

Most "250w" bikes are just artificially limited and anybody can remove that limit in about 30 seconds on most ebikes. The police don't care as long as you aren't racing around at 30mph all the time.

[@cragmc8386]

@@overcorpse have a look at the electric 125cc equivaleng mopeds. Yadea, super Soco etc.

[@steve01949]

I have a 250w Jorvik electric mountain trike which weighs 50+kgs, plus tools, etc. I weigh about 85kgs. It does have a "throttle" but this will only power the trike to walking speed, on level ground. On even the gentlest slope, a hill start is very difficult, if not impossible. 250w is not nearly enough power to pull away safely uphill at a busy road junction. If there is loose gravel, it's even worse. I do not have a real problem with the max powered speed. At 73, 15.5 mph is quite fast enough for me, but 20mph would be better.

[@xspotbox4400]

Every regulation should serve in the best interest of general human rights. Right to travel anywhere, stay in a fair health, own personal items, privacy and use technologies are all human rights, things all humans need the same. The bicycle is the only machine ever invented that allows for completely independent travel and also to carry some personal property around. This machine is powered, controlled and balanced by human energy, it's about the size and width of a person, can be carried in hands and can't develop dangerous amounts of kinetic energy potential when moving at moderate speeds. When battery gets discharged, bicycle still weight the same. Batteries can hold only so much charge, or the machine gets to heavy. More power demands stronger frame, wheels, sprockets, chain,... a moped, in short. It's also about wats, an average human can push about 250W with his legs, but only in good fitness and on flat roads. You need at least 5 x amount of wats to move over hills, specially when carrying a cargo and in cold conditions, when batteries lose about 30% of capacity. Sure you can make the bicycle go faster, but this will discharge your battery in minutes, will have to pedal a heavy machine back to the charger. So there should be a free category for people who need more power for longer and step travels, but don't care about speed so much. Please mind pedaling and comfortably seating is not the same, cyclist must constantly adjust balance by shifting weight of his body around, similar to paragliders. The bicycle is bionic, the machine will feel every small thing, just like a human body, scouters and mopeds are not like that. There is no 250W motor, it depends on thickness of wiring and power supplied to the coils. So bicycles are sort of a backpack, an extension of our clothes and shoes. Electric upgrades are meant to provide a means of personal transportation to older, not so strong riders or simply people who can't or don't want to afford anything better. The best solution would be the invention of electric pods that can be pedaled, equipped with a small gasoline generator for range extension and other higher power demands. If pods could weight under 100 kg, that being a weight of an average man or a mule, i can see no reason why everybody shouldn't own one of those and travel any place they like, at any time. Pod can be used as an emergency shelter, equipped with all sorts of small electrical appliances, safe, comfortable, healthy and hardly leaves any imprint on environment, can't damage roads or kill other people engaged in traffic. They can be covered with solar panels, to regenerate energy at all times. And pods should become a universal, global mode of transportation, allowed everywhere without any registration and licenses, except perhaps some basic, small and formal insurance fee. I like this channel because of the incredible magnitude of creative ides that can be used in such concepts. The world needs something nobody has seen before, and this sort of approach seems to be a good way of getting there. Not only solar and wind, every single part of the future pod should be utilized for some extended functionality, because when people are on their own, every little thing will help.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I agree mate - the solutions really require thinking about on our part rather than waiting for the situation to get better with fingers crossed

[@tims8603]

The laws in the US are very messed up too. It goes state by state and some states are slow to get up with the times. In my state, the law states that the motor has to be under 750 watts and top speed is 20 mph. Otherwise, it's classified as a motorcycle which requires a vehicle registration and a motorcycle driver's license. On top of that, local laws may apply. Supposedly, they want people to save gas and cut pollution but they make it hard to do.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

The greedy, cereal cheetah, narcissistic leaders in the USA only think about themselves, their ballpark franks and how to be a pro at philandering.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that is what trouble me - actually two things - one is the hypocrisy of saying do one thing and making it impossible to do an the second is just how meaningless the specification is

[@jpsimon206]

Obviously I do not know the laws in the UK, but we do have one convenient loophole in the US. People who need the use of a mobility device are allowed to operate any electrical mobility device anywhere. Including national Parks and hiking trails. The ADA law makes it illegal for authorities to ask what your disability is. There are zero limitations on power, speed, or size. Just this morning in Seattle, somebody caught video of a man riding an electric scooter with 5-in wheels on the freeway at 65 miles an hour. One other thought that occurs to me is that the size of the motors is typically only measured by the manufacturers sticker on the motor. Without the nameplate, who's to say whether a motor is 250 watts or 300? Stupid rules are meant to be broken

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

the name plate one struck me as particularly funny. But then locks only keep honest men honest - rules are good for rule followers and anyone determine to break a rule will certainly find a way lol

[@ollypolly18]

never had a problem with my 1500w ebike and had 3 police officers looking at it and asking about it i told them its a 1500w motor but still never said anything

[@michaelrowland6538]

It is true 9 times out of 10 Police don't bother b ut sadly you always get the 1 who does, my freind was fined £100 and 3 points on his license for riding a 750w it is the only time I have ever heard of anyone being done, I have been riding my ebike for over 2 years and never been stopped or had a problem with the law. Mike

[@Anglo-Brit]

@@michaelrowland6538 Did he have his bike removed? The issue is, its worth the risk, there not cheap. The ADO 20 is legal though at least.

[@michaelrowland6538]

@@Anglo-Brit I don't know all I know he was fined and received points as this was quite a few years back now and police themselves wasn't sure as the law is more clearer now. I asked a officer I know and all he new was cycles motor couldn't exceed 15.5mph he didn't know about motor size and throttle law but he wasn't a traffic cop more a beat officer. He never said they took his bike just a fine and points, I assume if they take your cycle it would be hard to retrieve it because if it is not registered you wouldn't be able to tax and insure it and you have to have them to retrieve from a compound, I am sure he would of told me if they had took the cycle and he found it more amusing that they did him as like me he had never heard of it before anyone being done.

[@magnets1000]

I'm fairly sure that if you can easily modify the max speed and pedal assist mode then it's also outside of the law

[@Zodliness]

I bet some bright spark will think to swap a 250w motor casing with a 350w motor guts?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

mate - that is more or less guaranteed lol

[@Kumari_44]

Facts!!

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

you can get stick-on or etched/stamped aluminium machine-labels in various wattages, just sayin. ;-)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

lol - for educational purposes only? lol

[@patomahony9747]

@@ThinkingandTinkering well for educational purposes I have mused at a quick 10 micron skim on mill. Quick shot of Poundland black and a cnc engraver. Or. What other motor options will fit in that case. Or…….Or Chip the controller.

[@ColinWatters]

How is the motor power rating defined for ebikes? The power rating of most electric motors isn't a precise figure. Change the battery voltage and add a bit more cooling you can "push" an electric motor beyond its official rating. So is it meant to be limited to 250W by the electronics?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I think in the test it is measured as power at the wheel - but you are right it is basically a meaningless figure

[@Steve_Coates]

There are people running Bafang BBSHD nominal 1kW motors at 4 kW continuous which is crazy, bicycle tyres and brakes aren't built for 60 mph.

[@thequixotryworkshop2424]

Great! I am glad it all worked out for you and that you can use this bike on the road without worrying about that online snitch ratting you out!

[@fender1000100]

Nobody cares anyway. As long as you arent tearing up the roads at 30 plus mph. Like some do on electric scooters and scramblers. Otherwise theyd have to stop and caution thousands of fast food delivery guys. On their souped up mountain bikes. Going over 20mph with 500w PLUS motors. It's basically an unenforceable law. You would have more chance of banning sex.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

@@fender1000100 police in my area couldn't care less lol. All the deliveroo and just eat guys are on 500 or 1000w ebikes and I haven't heard of anybody getting their bike took off them. Mine is 500w with a throttle so I don't have to pedal at all and does 25mph and I've never had any problems.

[@angelusmendez5084]

Nice to know, thanks! 👏

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

glad you liked it mate

[@paulbrouyere1735]

Thank you for explaining the complete Kafka situation we are in.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

glad you liked inmate - cheers

[@bobbyfagan7760]

It’s because this kills fuel sales

[@jasonhaymanonthedrawingboard]

I’m ok, 250w motor check. It the same thing going all over. Shame that things haven’t caught up with the change over from hydrocarbon to full electric system. Just reminded me why nobody can have anything nice. In the Netherlands it common place to cycle your family everywhere. It just a shame to see that ebikes are not more common place. And can do 30mph easier. If they are worried about safety. A proficiency test would cut a lot of fuss out. CBT for ebikes so to speak. Then you could even have a 500w motor with no issues. It would be good to maintain a market for lower end models so people with mobility issues can go like pros to wherever they wanted to. 100 miles would be fantastic for most people. Especially around towns.

[@xspotbox4400]

Why limit yourself to only 100 miles, when you can circumnavigate the entire planet, with only a plain, old bicycle? Regulations and licenses demand large administration and cost money, there can be many reasons why people will not be able to accommodate to strict regulations, but those are the ones that need them mostly. Electric power for the poor, this seems to be the essence of a problem, more than speed and other potential dangers to society.

[@jasonhaymanonthedrawingboard]

@@xspotbox4400 has to start somewhere?! My thoughts were regarding local travel and particular circumstances. if they did an ebike that could circumnavigate the world? I call dib right now! We are only a poor as what we know I was once told. So getting it out to the masses is a knowledge based stand point. Thing must be done in the best knowledge and good faith the the recipient will understand, work wit and remember. The whole idea of using electric power was to save ourselves the toil. 100 miles is about maximum battery range. But I’m sure that will improve. Then you have to contend with the regs. Which rob pointed out. My thinking was it is easier to bring something under an existing umbrella than it is trying to get legislation. We all can end focused on a particular point and neglect that it’s still a bigger world out there. Because we focus in on the singular we can be oblivious to our surroundings and miss something vital. I’ve heard too many stories of people injured while out on their equipment. be that ebikes of scooters. So I was thinking it was best moving forward prudently. The issue we all face is one of exertion. Go to hard too fast you will burn out. No question. So conservation of energy help you complete more task with less strain. I don’t disagree the importance of electricity for all. But depending on it is never a good thing. It’s good to have, not so good when you become dependent on it. Cognitive dissonance can impact people and stop them from realising other opportunities and potential other options. It required to remember what you have encountered ant try to intergrated it towards the future in creative and ingenious ways. We are on the cusp of a great change. Where we can learn to move energy far more easily. With that we be able to move ourselves far more easily and freely. It has alway been the issue to have the mind to do it in the first place. To think we could of had steam cars back in the medieval period. Or even Ancient Greece. Thanks to heron of Alexandra. Baby step it’s always painful slow baby step. Or otherwise this might get a little crazy? nobody wants that!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I agree mate

[@patomahony9747]

These restrictions may be good in a weird sort of way. Consider the early horseless carriages they had to have a man walking in front waving a red flag. Then consider engine size. The modern day 1000 cc engine is no comparison on speed power and performance to the ones of old. So I can see , in the very near future , the garden shed brigade pushing the development of the 250w e cycle to similar limits.

[@jasonhaymanonthedrawingboard]

@@patomahony9747 yeah there will be a few of them tinkering away In the lonely hours. It seam rather stereotyped. those people beavering away in their sheds. Coming up with weird and wacky creations. Sometimes just because they can. I’d love to see the day when it comes out of the shadows. Where the best sensibility rule. Where interest doesn’t have to be the most important factor in getting things going. Slow and steady win steady wins the race. It consistent input that wins out.

[@magnetsplace]

I have a legal 250w ebike and it functions well. Govt rambles on about emissions and fossil fuels etc yet cannot maintain the state of repair of the roads. I feel we have become the "Pothole Central" of the world somedays.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

for sure mate

[@rl3898]

Cheapest contractor syndrome maybe !

[@boblake2340]

Wow. A visit from the authorities for having a smoke in your own shop! The uk is an authoritarian nightmare already.

[@dtz1000]

It's the people. That's what they are like. It's no coincidence that Karen is an English name.

[@wolvesview9047]

Hi Robert, I've got a problem with mine. I can't screw the handle pole in. the bottom bit is at the bottom and the screw that connects to the bike just keeps turning loosely??

[@andrewblackamore4668]

Problem about the 250 limit is I have had a off road electric trike for 12 years and being it was for off road the motor is bigger than 250 BUT the controller can be wired to restrict the power to 250. That means I could use it on the road, so although the motor is more than 250 by limiting the wattage it becomes 250! So the question of what size is the motor becomes irrelevant and in cases like my motor blurs the line !?

[@darkobul1]

Thats crazy laws. Here in California is 750w limit or 1HP. If you consider that good bikers can produce 500w with their legs and even more those who are pro it makes that 250w quite a low limit. If you consider hills and other conditions 250w is insufficient. And when we consider that power of motor has not relation to speed as much as a it has with pulling makes it even more unbased to rate bikes like that.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I know - it just doesn't mean anything

[@user-gp2zz8sz6b]

Interestingly I ride a 750w Bafang (essential for fully laden pannier touring) ....here in Australia no issues with teens, so no police pressure. An Aussi boy would more likely be in trouble riding a petrol dirt bike !! Cultural issue.

[@DavidLiddle-o3d]

hi i need help does this mean i can have any watts and any speed on a ebike before 2016 or whats the law for all ebikes before 2016

[@saxum2171]

I'm a 18stone cripple so I need to have a better motor to get me up hills I've got a ADO A20F 500W & I ride it everywhere in the UK I've even had a copper ask for a go & I obliged he said wow I gotta get me one of these he didn't even say anything about it being a 500w motor😁 if I brought the UK version it wouldn't have got me up a ramp & I live my life without the law making me paranoid sod em.

[@azzy2001]

How long have you been riding it without a pull? I'm just asking because I'm a bit paranoid with my new Engwe EP2 Pro and I'd just like to get a good idea of how the police will react to it...

[@matthewscarborough4920]

@@azzy2001 buy the new engine x. Same motor as the ep2 and pro. But marked 250w on the hub easy to unlock for off road use

[@HBOMB-nl9pw]

@@azzy2001 how’s it going with the e-bike?

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

Ive been building and riding ebikes for about 8 years now. From march/april - November i typically commute on them to work, my latest build being a mid drive with 2000 watts of power and ive never had any issues with police or anything. I need that power because i live in hilly south wales.

[@robynrox]

I purchased an ADO A16+ (EU version) and it did not have that marking on the motor - everything else was there, but not the 250W declaration. In all physical respects it is road legal, but I've not used it on the roads because I don't see how I can prove it meets the regulations if I am stopped, and I don't think applying a dymo 250W label to it is going to cut it somehow! The supplier is not interested in helping. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions?

[@chriswilson3009]

just get a metal data plate made and fix it to the motor,job done.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

You ain't gonna be stopped mate. Honestly I ride a 1500w motor mountain bike around all the time.

[@jordyshaw6987]

Can you still de-restrict the 250w model? So you can still go up 35kmph (using the display)

[@graemewalker315]

Hi Robert You mention in the video that there are companies that supply a dongle that will make the bike go faster.....could you supply the details of these companies .....for using on a private road

[@smooth111012]

This is why the cars will never go away

[@lafamillecarrington]

Personally, I am very happy with the UK regulations. The US regulations are much more confused, but then they always have been!

[@yasararif8292]

👎 for the hater, get a life!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

oh for sure mate

[@karlosthehawk3730]

Great video and very informative 👍

[@MJTaylorZokk]

If the rating says 'PY-3W36V2105xxxx' is the bike road legal? (I blanked out some of the numbers.)

[@tenij000]

you can do it dont show the speed meter :) seond i use a 56v accu (48volt) use controller for 36 / 48 volt whit a 250 watt motor now battery last way longer

[@NickGrumpy]

It's even more messed up than that Rob, A 250 watt motor can only exist in law as a motor is only half the electrical system so how much power you can get from a motor is not regulated by the motor but the power chain. I.E the official power rating label really means very little power wise, but it keeps the cops happy :-)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I think you are spot on mate - I think the label is there as a rule just so the cops can read it and be happy!

[@jamiewragg5046]

Hi. Loving the videos by far the best out there for ado. One question regarding uk law and the throttle . I understand for research purposes you can unlock max speed and disable and enable the motor , I may use the throttle off road 😁 but is it OK in the UK to have a throttle , even though its disabled? I know you can for walk assist but you can't change the speed of that.. Thanks. Keep up the good work :)

[@baxbanny7732]

a good buy for the cash

[@scotttovey]

Cities should not be allowed to regulate transportation; those regulations should be at the state or federal level. This really shows the hypocrisy the environmentalists around the world. They want you to go green, but then they put a whole lot of hurdles in the way to insure you'd rather not.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

yeah - it's madness to make it harder to access - it should be easier shouldn't it?

[@scotttovey]

@@ThinkingandTinkering 😎👍

[@Kumari_44]

Facts!!

[@gabood]

Is it actually policed very well though

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

No

[@ThatGoth]

I think you made a slight mistake, an e-bike manufactured before 2016 may have a throttle but the throttle can only give 200W of power, the motors even when manufactured before 2016 must still not exceed 250W. Also the motor power and details can be anywhere on the bike (not necessarily just on the motor).

[@andyash5675]

How does it go up St Stephens Hill? 😃

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I would imagine it needs and assist lol

[@saidul02]

This law hitting on the nerves. Why can't you 15mi on electric?

[@buffplums]

Be good to see how this works out Rob

[@ColinWatters]

2:15 What if you _made_ your own ebike before 2016?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

now there is a point lol

[@Kumari_44]

Im looking for an exact answer to this question aswell!! My bikes got a 250w motor and was made before 2016. Perfectly legal by those standards. BUT its got a throttle that gives it more than starting assistance speed. Does that mean that it will be confiscated if police see it?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Robert Have to say I'm surprised you didn't mention the Hall Effect motor.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

In a review about road bike legality - you don't think that would be a little out of place?

[@hempev]

I just have to ask: someone reported you for smoking in your own workshop? Is that illegal? I'm no smoker, but I do like to make personal freedom *personal* whenever possible!.

[@sgsuper1150]

You need 168/2013 type approval not just EU spec.

[@kevindarkstar]

We are British! Can we please have it in mph 🧐

[@tinaoconnor8065]

Keep fighting these

[@another3997]

One reason things take so long to change is because laws have to be very specific in their wording to avoid ambiguity. They also have to avoid clashing with other, related laws and be open to scrutiny. People will find loopholes, argue the semantics and generally try every trick in the book to circumvent the rules. Every "incident" involving e-bikes and scooters that goes to either a civil or criminal court, will eventually build up a series of case laws to refer to, and things will get better. But there are always going to be idiots who ride too fast, in the wrong places, ignoring all the rules of the road, causing havoc and annoying people. We already see it with many cyclists and scooter riders. Giving more ammunition to those who want stricter regulation, licensing etc. 🙁

[@ralphsimpson5230]

I have bypassed the Stupid 25 km restriction. It was easy.

[@BiosWars]

If the E bike situation in the UK is a mess, it's only because governments are involved. Laws are meant to be observed only if safety is involved. I personally believe governments should keep their hands, noses and rules out of it. That said, rule breakers seem to be able to achieve anything, just ask Elon. As for legislation needing to catch up, maybe the MP's should stop pedaling their A$$E$ around, and use a dongled E bike.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

rule breakers do indeed abound and we admire them - if they succeed!

[@jpsimon206]

What is the theoretical logic behind limiting the speed of bicycles? I would think they would be much safer at sharing the road with cars if they had the same acceleration profile.

[@j.f.christ8421]

20-25km is about the usual non-electric bicycle riding speed, and since you'll be mainly on paths with people you don't want too fast. If you mix with traffic then they're basically a moped (as explained) and it all gets complicated.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I suspect it is the speed an cyclist can cycle

[@jpsimon206]

@@j.f.christ8421 okay my bad! We don't have dedicated bicycle paths. Bicycles or not allowed on the sidewalk, only in the street with the cars. A few cities have a feeble nod to bicycle lanes, but nothing effective

[@j.f.christ8421]

@@jpsimon206 Don't worry about, everywhere is like that. Bicycles are stuck in the middle, no-one wants them on paths or the road. The USA is the exception, they hate everything that isn't a car (pedestrians, bikes, trains, women pushing prams etc).

[@Awakend7]

Just incase people are not aware government legislation is NOT law so why are you complying, learn legalese and how the system works and they can’t do anything about it!! Also by registering anything with the government means your handing over the rights to control your item and or business to the government!

[@HarleyPebley]

Egads. do police really have nothing better to do than pull e-bike riders over and check if they have a 350W or 250W motor? Or check if they are in throttle mode vs pedal assist mode? I haven't looked at the e-bike related laws here in the US, but they are not regulated at the federal level so they'll vary from state to state. More fun for the manufacturers.

[@Anglo-Brit]

You have better laws on it. 750w

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

The UK police don't stop people and check. I ride a 1500w motor bicycle around all the time.

[@davidsutherland3466]

The only limit here in New Zealand is 350 watts and that's it

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

wow

[@davidsutherland3466]

Yup. Speed limit for ebikes is the posted speed limit

[@doktorwhy7397]

great review

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@eBoard3R]

👏🏼👏🏼⚡👏🏼👏🏼

[@stevenleslie8557]

At 250w you'll be lucky to get it up a hill.

[@Anglo-Brit]

Not true... The ADO 20 has got up every hill I have thrown at it with ease.

[@davemils8910]

So given the laws aren't retrospective should we all buy electric scooters now before the laws come in?🥳

[@buffplums]

Changed your business name Rob?

[@FoodwaysDistribution]

Who uses km/h around here?

[@martinwinfield2935]

Yes was wondering the same. All our signs and mileage are in MPH. Thank goodness some things were not forced on us and were out of the grip of Brussels. Just off to the pub for a 0.568 litre of Beer.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

indeed mate

[@justynssagan6156]

The range is very weak it would have been better with a 17amp or 15amp

[@Anglo-Brit]

Cost more...... Im gonna get another battery. For commuting the range is great.

[@monkfu7101]

Start talking and demonstrating cold electric ,Edwin Vincent Gray US Patents # 4,595,975 ( spark gaps in vacuums ) / 4,661,747 they will come for your whole building. ECO Friendly power as the world was before & so will it return. I would be very disappointed if the environmental agency officer turned out to be Fred Dibah's son 😂🤣 !! The real danger here is CRITICAL THINKING. One Love 369

[@TaviRol-xn3xx]

I had a Bosch ebike and I got a cheap chinese folding one and its more powerfull :)) ..both are legal..engineers do mess with their legal power in their own geeky way

[@Ixquick979]

Police doesn't bother checking e-bikes for conformity.

[@YoureNowOnTV]

Never say never. 😀 It wasn't that long ago that a "Drone" meant an Australian Aboriginal musical instrument sound, or the sound of your Mother-in-law taking about the lack of parking spaces for their SUV. Now we have laws governing how, where, and what you can fly with them. That happened relatively quickly. Ps. Can a drone lift up a Mother-in-law BTW? she'd find a parking spot a lot easier from up there. (For educational purposes only of course, dropping her from several kilometres up would not be advisable as that's what took out the dinosaurs I'm led to believe)

[@RaperJason]

Right result mate glad it's road legal look forward to the vids As for the smoking what a T**t if you and your lad are the only ones in there and both agree you can smoke what is the problem apart from some jobsworths that need to get a life I gave up years ago but still love the smell of someone smoking nearby 😄 The offroad bit in the bike law is a bit of a con as well because it only applies to private ground and a lot of bike parks and trails are still restricted to road speeds

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

It really doesn't surprise me mate - though I didn't know it - cheers

[@dtz1000]

I'm going to guess that the jobsworth was an English person. It is a trait of the English to do that kind of thing. It's why most Karens are white.

[@christucker8174]

Kind of sucks that you have to pay more money for a less powerfull e bike.. all the 750w ebikes iv seen with throttle cost a good bit less than uk road legal 250w bikes-

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

A lot of brands do the same bike for both UK and international. Then on the display lock it to 15.5mph and disable the throttle which of course anybody can then revert the settings in 30 seconds.

[@barbufodor1186]

Soon the complainant will call the authorities: Robert shouldn't dress light colored clothes after the autumn equinox. Sad part is: they may try to enforce it

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

yep lol

[@sepgorut2492]

Don't forget to take your go pro

[@dannymartinez2778]

Someone calling the env agency because you were smoking is absolutely hilarious as much as it is horrendously tragic and pathetic. Its endlessly amusing to imagine people like that exist but simultaneously terrifying.

[@JIMBO8472]

just seems like government greed..

[@jasonking1284]

4:18 Come off it mate, you wrote that with a white ink marker...

[@docink6175]

The whole smokey issue is kind of crazy unfortunately I'm afraid that the way we are giving up our rights here in the US we aren't far behind that kind of tyranny. I'm the type that has to push limits so I would take that motor plate and put it on a much bigger motor and reconfigure the lock key as a variable speed control

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice

[@joeds3775]

Attitudes l8ke that are what makes them bring in laws.

[@smooth111012]

I say move from the U.K.

[@matthewellisor5835]

Just what owner of some miniscule knob with delusions of adequacy wants to watch your videos from his mother's basement and then! choose to tattle at the talent for minding his business while burning a cig!? Maybe I'm getting too old but my lifetime-supply of patience seems to be getting near empty. A bit more crass than where I usually aim. I hope that I didn't overstep but the bad apples ought be thrown to the compost heap.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

it was certainly forthright mate lol - to be honest - I agree!

[@allanwood3562]

You don't want to bottle up that angst Matthew. Let it out into the fresh air at will.

[@johnhealy9231]

Who in gods name reported you for smoking, what next ownership of leather shoes animal rights will be at your door , anyway thank for the legal info even if the (law is an ass) Been stoped twice on one bike about throttle,( bought in 2013) now keep paperwork in panniers, personally I think 500w motor should be legal, I could easily change controllers ,mod the shunt to get more speed ,use a dongle , or change sticker to say 250w on any ebike .

[@iaingemmell5572]

I wonder who the 1 person is that has disliked the video

[@j.f.christ8421]

Start smoking so they'll downvote it twice.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

lol - I can imagine who. lol

[@edwardhughes352]

Unbelievable that someone would call the environmental agency. I suppose there are nutters everywhere.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

yep I am afraid there are lol

[@Free__Speech]

250w is nothing. Most cyclist can output more than 350w

[@Anglo-Brit]

Well... The ado can keep you at 21 mph at all times, normal bikes will never do that.

[@royquatermass7593]

We need a common sense approach unfortunaetly thats not happening, i have a Etrail bike its shop bought and legal.

[@Mr.Unacceptable]

The rules around ebikes are silly. there should be no consideration for taxing these things. They have such limited use. I have a bike I use to bring my dogs to the park in a bike trailer. A 250W would not do the job.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I think it is strange because aren't we all supposed to be getting out of the car habit? - how we going to do that when the alternatives are harder to access not easier?

[@bikerfirefarter7280]

Geared properly 250w should be enough assist, unless you are going up long/steep hills towing a couple of St'Bernard's. Try testing out a 'cargo bike' with, a-hem, a 250w motor. They are popular/cheap in France. Not that I am suggesting anything naughty, but you can get stick-on 'rating labels' marked 250w. ;-)

[@rogerbraintree9552]

The irony of the law is that only the law abiding are caught.