The Surprising Enemy Of Good Songwriting

[@12tone]

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[@ehrichweiss]

Did you draw a T.A.R.D.I.S around the 2:47 mark?

[@ipudisciple]

@@ehrichweiss yup

[@StGSteve]

Left handed, Number 12tone...

[@SplotchTheCatThing]

I was definitely guilty of this even up to a few years ago, and realizing it back then helped me start moving forward a lot faster. It wasn't long after that that I started learning a new instrument and decided to start writing with it as soon as I was competent enough to get a few good recording takes -- and that was an even bigger eye-opener because while the songs I was writing were definitely simpler than before, they weren't worse. I've given myself a few loose rules since then when it comes to complex chords and and time signatures that help me to use them in ways that work instead of ways that are just *there*. Even so, I still don't like major keys and probably never will. ;)

[@andrewsmith1133]

So what do you think of pieces like "the world's ugliest music" kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHaxnGyGgJVpd7M where the intent is more to see what something would sound like if it were turned into music than to sound nice?

[@manta4077]

There is a saying that goes in the field of industrial design: "A good design is not when there is nothing to add. A good design is when there is nothing to remove." In a nutshell, focus on the desired function.

[@applebutter4036]

Love it!. Gonna write that one down

[@evezina96]

That quote is a twist on a quote by St-Exupéry, an amazing French writer (the Little Prince is his most known work). The original was about engineering, but it applies to most creative purposes tbh!

[@taejun9017]

That is until you’re Apple and you’ve created a laptop that can’t hook up a drive and charge itself at the same time!

[@Bagofnowt]

@@taejun9017 if you create a laptop that can charge ITSELF then you can have all the money in the world

[@GargeBarge]

Eg- “Why Don’t We Do It In The Road”

[@CAFFIENEHOUND]

"You were so preoccupied with whether or not you could, that you never considered whether or not you should."

[@nolankelly1499]

Literally the whole summary of the video.

[@georgehiggins1320]

Was literally about to comment this. We have similar minds, my friend!

[@mal2ksc]

That's why he drew a dinosaur in a circle, young padawan.

[@HAZARDOUS88]

I hoped so much when hearing him say that that he would reference Jurassic Park. I was so happy he did lol

[@Sammy71ful]

I was wondering what the JP reference was for!

[@5BBassist4Christ]

I was in a composition class a couple of years back, and we were given an assignment to write a song based off of a poem about grief. About half the class ended up doing theirs in a major key and all happy sounding to subvert the expectation of it being grim because it's about grief. Needless to say, only a few of the songs actually worked. This one woman wrote a song that actually built very dramatically in tension before coming to a sudden stop where she turned her focus around to overcome the grief. Sometimes making your work memorable isn't about making it the most unique; it's about making it fit the narrative.

[@danieljensen2626]

Personally I think depressing lyrics over happy sounding music is a pretty good way to avoid sounding cringey and whiny though. I mean look at Semi-Charmed Life, it's literally about being addicted to crystal meth, but it gets tons of radio play because it's set to an upbeat poppy tune.

[@fecklessmovies]

@@danieljensen2626 it’s definitely a technique that can work and adds humour. Just listen to Morrissey or The Smiths. Girlfriend in a Coma, for example.

[@Drunk_Bishop]

beatles happiness is a warm gun is an example of what she did

[@JubaDeMetalAlumínio]

@@catwalkcool One of my favorites is The Best of Times, which start with sad instrumental, then comes the memories of good times with bright vocals and fast tempo, but later there's the tragedy and ultil the end the song becomes more sad, even that doesn't seem the end of the world for the person telling the story (the band's drummer, Mike Portnoy, about his father). Oh, the gorgeous 4 minutes long guitar solo...

[@grasweg3]

Major key doesn't mean happy sounding though. The best and saddest Lieder I know are in major.

[@Sweetmanthanks]

Silence is an instrument too. Never underestimate the power of simplicity.

[@N8-Feds]

Can you hear the silence?

[@thesabbath483]

@@N8-Feds Yes. When you hear nothing, it's the nothing, that you hear.

[@N8-Feds]

@@thesabbath483 can you see the dark : k

[@thesabbath483]

@@N8-Feds Yes

[@N8-Feds]

@@thesabbath483 it dissapoints me how you dont know the song

[@hyalinamusic18]

The best tip for songwriting I've ever heard is "do it for the song" Don't try to show off or do something complex just for the sake of complexity. Complex harmony and technical playing have their place, but a shredy guitar solo isn't necessarily the best in a slow acoustic ballad. And a melodic guitar solo might not be best for the brutal tech death song you're doing. Everything has its place, so learn where that is and don't force it into somewhere it doesn't fit.

[@TokyoBlue587]

Led Zeppelin were masters at mixing it up though, like starting with a slow ballad like feel and by the end Jimmy Page is shredding it up

[@hyalinamusic18]

TokyoBlue That's true, but he wasn't shredding the beginning of Stairway lol

[@seanbrennan5192]

Tell that to Captain Beefheart with trout mask replica lmao

[@glammer]

I used to tell players to learn the 13th note. They'd ask what that is and I'd say, "It's the one where you don't play for 16 bars."

[@Kaz999998]

I think this accounts for most music genres except for people who deliberately want to go against the grain by experimenting with different things and fusing genres. I'm not knocking the advice, it's solid in like 9/10 situations, but it's worth considering that a lot of great abstract music comes as a result of throwing away normal conventions in favor of mixing and matching things that most people might believe don't fit together at all.

[@Bati_]

“Music, I feel, must be emotional first and intellectual second.” - Maurice Ravel

[@Gnurklesquimp]

I'm not against the idea of putting intellect first, it's all very interesting so I can see enjoying music primarily for that, but anything I personally learn is to help me explore the emotional side first and to be interesting second. People say something similar about the writing process, you learn a lot, becoming familiar with how* things are put together and finding new stuff along the way, but when you're actually writing or improvising, you just go where your feelings take you, now with the ability to express it better.

[@Idonotsa49]

I generally agree, but a lot of early minimalist music, like Music in Fifths by Glass or Reich’s strict phasing pieces

[@gearmachine_4885]

I have written a lot of emotional pieces, but almost of them suck.

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

Lyricism is intellectual.

[@goodmorning252]

Cool songwriting notebooks for writing lyrics and notes are on amazon, just type "hungry man songwriting notebook" into the amazon search engine

[@corwin32]

I’m a painter, and you remind me of a tip from a professor. He told me to stop trying to blend in a highlight-“lean into it. Tell everyone you know it’s there, and it’s SUPPOSED to be there!”

[@CMM5300]

Great advice! Having confidence in contrasts is a good thing. Music or painting, it's all art.

[@Jaspertine]

Or as Adam Neely would say "Repetition Legitimizes." Just play it again and again until it sounds like you meant to do it.

[@lifeontheledgerlines8394]

@@Jaspertine BASS

[@NilsPhilippsen]

@@Jaspertine Not sure that "you meant to do it" always translates to "it works", though.

[@jonathanmcdaniel1040]

Just make it a happy little tree.

[@akwilson1676]

Me not knowing any music theory: Oh this sounds kinda cool, let's put it in.

[@iconsumedeath]

Lol same

[@ThunderSong]

same boat omg

[@brileystewart]

You and 100,000 other writers my dude

[@josecarioca8785]

I know a bit of theory, but whenever I try to apply it, it sounds like shit. Things tend to flow better when I just start strummimg

[@standard-carrier-wo-chan]

The difference between an amateur and a professional is knowing how much cool is too much cool.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

"If I tell you the next piece of music you're gonna create will never play on the radio, no one will listen to it, nobody will notice it would you still do it? And if the answer is anything but a clear 'yes', then you shouldn't." - Steve Vai

[@anameyoucantremember]

Nobody's ever heard -nor will ever hear- all the music I have created for 20 years. Steve would be proud of me.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@anameyoucantremember The point here is to gain freedom as a composer without expectations, as expectations are just stress. Then you can do whatever you want without fear of rejection or criticism, or have your composing handicapped by said expectations.

[@lisaia7877]

Clear yes

[@Dante-qf9yd]

Especially when the industry is more about business rather than the actual art.

[@Birkguitars]

I have been trying to write songs for decades. I now have two that I am reasonably pleased with. The difference was hearing someone say that when I am stuck for what to do next I should just do the most obvious thing that comes to mind. It's the KISS principle and if it seems obvious then mot likely it will fit. I can then tweak it a little if that sounds better but at least I know it works.

[@anthonyholroyd5359]

So my grandfather is a classical violinist who played in the BBC SSO. I remember, as a kid, playing him a melody I'd written on the piano. I remember starting to feel a little embarrassed halfway through and apologising to him as I realised that what I'd written wasnt . . . Very . . . 'Clever' (I was put through, and passed my ABRSM grade 5 music theory at about 11 years old? My mum is also a classically trained musician so music as an academic pursuit was a big thing in my family). He gave me some of the best advice I've ever heard. He said, "dont apologise - write the music that sounds good - that's you're starting point. Some of the greatest pieces of music ever written started with very simple, but very beautiful ideas. Simple can be good - do more with less". That's when I realised that writing music is a case of . . . Be clever if you want, but only if it serves, and doesnt detract from, the music. You can be clever and end up with good music - but you have to be very careful about how you do it.

[@gersomvanslooten9456]

It's so important, but in such a competitive business like music, you're so tempted to go the extra mile, making you lose sight of the bigger picture.

[@SirBloxy]

thanks for that 🙏

[@gwgh]

12Tone: I wrote these series of arpeggios that ran all up and down the coloratura register, never repeating, getting gradually higher and more rhythmically intense throughout the section Me, a soprano singer: ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL HER???

[@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS]

Eh, nobody will miss a soprano. Sincerely, the poor blown out tenor :P

[@gwgh]

Jonathan Cruz Cole Here’s an F for you and the rest of the fallen

[@olgierdvoneverec4135]

F2

[@jessielefey]

I mean, given what I know about anyone dealing with soloists, especially sopranos... maybe? He certainly wouldn't be the first, although pianists seem the most likely to do it on purpose.

[@ses694]

How rings of saturn write guitar solos

[@swagmundfreud666]

That ad was SOOOO smooth.

[@SJ-oi7tk]

I watch these things just to see how he'll transition to the ad.

[@Buddlebot]

no that is probably the worst comment in history.

[@winterfall82]

I saw this and expected an actual ad. It really caught me off guard holy hell😂

[@winterfall82]

I appreciate your Small World logo my guy 👌

[@OM-md6ki]

Still an ad

[@ofwgkta42]

me, writing on my piano: every diatonic chord besides the tonic NEEDS to be at LEAST a 7/maj7/min7 me, when presenting my ideas to the group: yeah... maybe not

[@eligibbons2155]

This is called jazz. Flip through a real book and count the number of triads- there aren't many

[@billygarvey633]

a d d 9

[@Alexcoman51]

In my experience there’s almost always ways to add extensions to a chord but it’s not always as easy as just tacking on a seventh you have to know what color/function you’re going for

[@f67739]

i do this a lot

[@BungleJoogie68]

I am incredibly guilty of this. I have to force myself to use straight major and minor chords.

[@natedogsturdikat8538]

Radiohead is a great example of complex theory implemented into songs without being forced. They’ll do the craziest rhythms and chords and it’s all because the song needed it

[@MilesColtrane.]

Agree 100%

[@Anthony-dq4dl]

No alarms, but still surprising.

[@phant0mdummy]

That is a hard sell. I've been a Radiohead fan since the 90's, but they often begin their songs with the intent of going against the grain, doing something challenging to themselves and honestly flexing. Their songs are born out of an artistic need to explore. So the foundation of most of their stuff is "let's get crazy" and not "hey, this is nice what does it need?"

[@sadyakubovich]

I love radiohead, but honestly it does feel forced sometimes

[@phant0mdummy]

@@sadyakubovich cause it is. It's not a bad thing. They've said in interviews that they arent happy doing the same thing. Hence every album being different.

[@glennpagemusic]

Great video. I always say, "Everything in service to the song." If it doesn't serve the song - and the type of song it is within its genre - then it goes. No part of the song, including the vocals, should be viewed as an end in and of itself. Everything is a means to an end - the song.

[@teemusid]

"If it doesn't serve the song - and the type of song it is within its genre"..... If everyone walks in the middle of the path, pretty soon it will turn into a rut so deep that you can't climb out. Great bands become their own genre by following the first part of what you said, "Everything in service to the song." There are too many labels in the world, and musical genres, and their specificity, have become ludicrous.

[@MisterAppleEsq]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately! One example from my own endeavours: I had this really nice melody, and it was pretty simple: almost all stepwise motion and basically just straight crotchets with the odd triplet. But it was only the first 8 bars of what needed to be a 16 bar melody, so I added this whole new bit with a ton of fancy syncopations and octave leaps, and I thought it was great until I listened all the way through and realised that the second half sounded completely incoherent. So I replaced it with a barely altered repetition of the first half, and guess what? It worked better like that.

[@montyeyesclosed]

Love this

[@kemojoaquin]

“Experienced songwriters aren’t just being clever for the fun of it...” MF DOOM laughs maniacally

[@theNickRYG]

Hes like a real internet supervillain. "Songwriters HATE him. Click here to find out why!"

[@asherkolars1283]

@@theNickRYG lmao

[@pocketpicker6613]

Mad respect for using ALL CAPS when spelling the man's name

[@michaelclark1811]

Don’t think he talking about wordplay there

[@stmzonline]

Spot on comment mate 😁

[@rontomkins6727]

Deciding to use one of your own works to exemplify the mistakes one can make when arranging pieces of music instead of choosing someone else's, is an incredibly generous act of your part that speaks very highly of you. This is one of the reasons I love your channel. Also, I love the concept of hand-drawn images matched to your voice and it always makes me wonder how you came about with that concept for your videos and how you actually execute it. I imagine you first record your voice and then play it back and pause it every now and then to make a drawing that matches each sentence while filming your hand, and then edit it. Nevertheless, it's a very cute, simple yet incredibly awesome concept.

[@Khristafer]

When you talked about your hard drive last year, I didn't even think about your music. I send my condolences.

[@sarakiellamusao8631]

Ah yes same

[@jetpenguin9]

as a college jazz soloist, this info works just as well for someone bately getting into soloing who wants to pull off some giant steps esc solo right off the bat

[@Idonotsa49]

Jetpenguin Giant Steps really has a simple solo, though. It’s almost all chord tones. The chord changes are complex, but the solo is about as simple as you can get over those changes.

[@CMM5300]

Yeah, especially the piano. Cause the key changes were so hard. I've never played giant steps but my respect to the complexity of the arrangement.

[@A..lie..sha3]

K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid (no one actually is stupid just for the sake of the acronym)

[@speakfrombeatz]

🔴Download this freestyle beat for FREE to improve your skills🔥 🌐kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3eVcptnl8-Aars

[@neutralclef6253]

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" - What every musician needs to hear at some point

[@sophiepooks2174]

Oh twaddle. music would have stagnated and never evolved with that attitude, electronic music would still only be used to scare and startle people.

[@leongallagher6792]

just noticed he's left handed.... after about 10 videos

[@lisazoria2709]

I never noticed he's left handed even though I'm left handed myself. 😅

[@leongallagher6792]

@@lisazoria2709 I'm left handed too 😂

[@Rytronica]

So am I and neither did realise..

[@reaganharder1480]

I think I actually just assumed he had flipped the image in post...

[@arinetic5538]

i feel like a lot of musicians are left-handed. its probably cause we're right-brained!

[@KelnelK]

"Advanced harmonic concepts should be used sparingly" Draws salt, the one ingredient that should be used in literally every prepared food.

[@cobrasys]

Every _savoury_ prepared food, you mean. And you should still use it sparingly -- too much salt will definitely ruin any dish, no matter how good every other part of it is. 😉

[@jacobbass6437]

@@cobrasys. Umm you add salt to sweets, you add it to sour things. Salt can do more than make something salty. It’s main purpose in a lot of dishes is to make the tastes of a dish more pronounced without making them taste like salt. Yes, you use salt in EVERYTHING. Very few things don’t have salt for this reason.

[@jacobbass6437]

@Epic Terry. Ummm if you like the taste of meat, what your tasting is salt. Meat without anything on it (and that hasn’t been processed, which is when they add salt) is actually really bland and doesn’t have any major taste to it. Fruits are great without salts as they are designed to be eaten. But most things taste better with salt. This is because salt can do more than make something taste salty, it boldens the flavors already present.

[@cobrasys]

@@jacobbass6437 I never said we don't do those things, but there are a LOT of prepared foods you don't add salt to.

[@Atari2600Gamer]

@@jacobbass6437 Someone seems a little salty.

[@12uullaass12]

2:43 “it didn’t need to be there” *draws Navi from OOT*

[@zbr76]

I started laughing maniacally when I saw that. Navi was the SCURGE of my childhood!

[@Alsyoutubeaccount]

I play guitar but I’m not really a “musician” like this. This was in my recommended, but it’s crazy how much writing music and creating visual art is related. Not getting hyper focused on one part, constantly stepping back to look at the whole. Not doing complicated details or lighting tricks just because you can. It all relates.

[@kbbl102.5]

"I hear you talking, but you're not saying anything" -David Byrne, Talking Heads

[@swim_ad]

"flying saucers? levitation ... well, I can do that!" - Matt Damon

[@atimholt]

4:14: Anyone else think of “Lady Madonna” by the Beatles?

[@booradley32]

No, but now I do

[@emilgreilert5734]

Yeah, almost started singing and felt disappointed that the bass line didn't start...

[@hisham_hm]

@@booradley32 - same here! good ears, atimholt!

[@BassGirlSusan1961]

Immediately!

[@Rosmarodin]

Yes!

[@tymime]

Funny, when I look back on my oldest songs (that actually had chords instead of just lyrics) I'm frequently pleasantly surprised by my naivete, which would result in bizarre choices that I actually like. Like, one of my songs was meant to be a psychedelic garage rock song, but I chose to switch between 3/4 and 2/4 and use a 13th dominant chord as the basis of the progression. I looked at it and thought "What the heck? Since when does psychedelic garage rock do that?" but I decided to go through with it and found that it actually worked.

[@JubaDeMetalAlumínio]

Besides when I'm actually playing chords, I don't compose with them... I mean, riffs and melodies. I just choose notes that I think sound good.

[@BlightVonDrake]

My most recent song: Uses triads in the chords, then let the scale be dictated by what the melody was doing, and I feel like it turned out good, and I'm proud of it. 12tone: "Don't get clever." Me, still new to music making: *_NERVOUS SWEAT_*

[@chesspiece4257]

don’t worry! “don’t be clever” is the opposite of beginners luck! if you don’t know it’s clever then you won’t treat it like your darling

[@umeboshi228]

if it sounds good in the end, keep it!

[@badmanjones179]

"back then i could hit that high g"... so when you were, a young one, you could hit that high note?

[@FreezepondMapping]

I really felt that g and I am currently crying a lot of eyeliner.

[@jasminedakota3958]

Gold

[@badmanjones179]

@@FreezepondMapping i thought you were calling me a g for a second there

[@FreezepondMapping]

@@badmanjones179 A real g knows the g

[@ryanbryancyan]

But was he doing it the G Way

[@tehberral]

That high G on pinao gives me a tingle at the back of my MCRmy brain.

[@mashajankovic7456]

SAME

[@Schnitzelschlotz]

I was looking for that comment

[@diogenes1351]

pinao

[@user-wx2ek3uv1i]

pinao

[@swim_ad]

when I was a young pinao my pinao took me into the pinao to see a marching...pinao ?

[@miraflynn8935]

I feel like the “kill your darlings” (although I always heard it as “kill your babies”) is really powerful advice in any situation where you’re creating something.

[@huss2600]

Kill your darlings sounds like something straight out of bioshock.

[@atomictraveller]

prolly better advice for not creating something.

[@ericrakestraw664]

"Never be clever for the sake of being clever" - Glenn Gould ("So You Want to Write a Fugue")

[@pogchamp7983]

You've got the nerve to write a fugue?

[@divisix024]

For a canon in inversion is a dangerous diversion

[@pianoguy-rz4nq]

@@divisix024 And a little augmentation is a serious temptation

[@深夜-l9f]

thanks I get it now

[@jb_1971]

I was looking for that comment. :P

[@Gonzo2707]

Reminds me what one of the senior devs at my first job always used to say - perfection is not achieved when there‘s nothing more to add. Perfection is achieved when there‘s nothing left to take away.

[@CMM5300]

My music teacher had me write him music to play on violin. I used "all" the notes chromaticly 32nd notes up down all around never repeating anything. It wasn't a very good sounding piece with a few surprisingly lucky spots. The difficulty and acrobatics involved was top notch... I was a young shred guitarist. Haha It was fun, I got an A and realized next time to pick a key center.

[@olgierdvoneverec4135]

The fear of doing this is one of the things that makes it really hard to write for me, every bar needs to feel perfect and nice, but also fear making things too simple

[@Nate-bd8fg]

It's also important to experiment to know your own style, and to know exactly where the very thin and blurry line of "too much" "😊editing" and "trying to be clever" is.

[@tanyanguyen3704]

Also called, “yeah, I’m human too”. I love gethsemene (sp). Its got such a powerful vocal arch to shove the singer through this almost devastating range of emotion from tired maybe scared, to the anger, to the almost pitiful resignation. Would you ever do a vid to show how those emotional ranges are delivered by the music, and not just the lyrics and vocal presentation. (And to this day, ive not seen a version as well done as Neeley’s)

[@StoneShards]

"The art is in making it work." Simply TRUE.

[@writerofthought8084]

When I was writing my more experimental songs, I would call in random classmates from the hallway to listen to my work with fresh ears. I found that i could get too used to the complex chords with non chord tones in the melody and having people that had never heard it before tell me how it made them feel really helped

[@WillDixonMusic]

I needed to see this - I annoy myself by constantly George Lucas-ing my own music constantly making little tweaks to my songs until they're unrecognisable. One of the positives of lockdown has been having the time to go back to these songs (while unable to rehearse them with my band) and look at them holistically. In every case I've ended up reverting the songs back to something much closer to their original not-overthought forms, realising that I'd lost sight of what actually made them organic and exciting before I started trying to make them more clever. So yeah as you say: don't overthink your music for the sake of making it more intricate.

[@slopcrusher3482]

There’s something to be said about someone who’s able to make something “simple”, being alright with it, and then using the simplicity to emphasize other parts of a song.

[@carlnielsen3477]

A very important thing to remember. Thank you for reminding me. As probably everyone else I've been there too: putting something in for no purpose. But there is a thing that is even worse than having to many smart ideas: when you actually managed to get something perfect and then think it could be a little better. When you are trying to improve what is perfect, you are destroying it.

[@rattrap1009]

If you are wondering whether an element belongs in your piece you only need to ask yourself some simple questions; what does it mean? Why is it there? What vibe or sound does it create? What sound do you want to create? As long as you understand the purpose of the song and allow that to guide you, you will find the necessary harmonic elements.

[@TheCoolguy_Jim]

As someone who is writing a musical, I couldn’t agree more- I always want to use really complex chords in my songs but sometimes it’s best to stick with the basics in order to better convey the plot. I’m really glad this video was recommended to me!

[@Forevopera]

I've thought this about my own creative process for so long, but I could never put this into words. There are so many old pieces of mine which I wish desperately I hadn't tried to be so clever with. Thank you so much for making this video!

[@jshock7912]

You unknowingly just called me out for all the things preventing me from writing and finishing good songs and I'm so thankful for it. Just wish you'd written this video five years earlier and hand delivered it to my doorstep. This was a wonderful video. I feel like I had basically been learning that over the time that I've been teaching myself songwriting but it always helps to have someone reinforce what you think.

[@saam6768]

@4:55 is more important mixing advice than anything and everything else on youtube. That's such a simple idea, I can't believe I've never done that before.

[@thewhat531]

"I liked the demo better" - anyone who has listened to the demo a lot

[@scrunchymacscruff1244]

Same with writing poetry, or (GASP!) lryics..the first pass is great; then I may (always) try to improve things a bit!

[@B1gBoyPants]

Yeah my dad has experience with songwriting, and I’m learning. I’m more experienced with my instrument and composition than with vocals or writing lyrics. But I’m mostly self taught with a few years of lessons, some classes here and there, and tons of KZbin videos like this one. My dad’s best advice for me starting out has been to keep it simple. A simple chord progression and song structure is easier to write to for beginner songwriters. And as I’ve gotten into having my music produced I’ve learned more and more about what I need to prioritize. I think actually producing and releasing my music has been the greatest learning experience for me because I get to see what I do and don’t like from my previous work. Working with other musicians/producers/songwriters has taught me so much. And as I write and record more and more songs, I find myself wanting to make them more and more simple. Every time I feel like I’ve improved in one area, I find something else that I could be doing better, so I have to simplify and practice the basics. Sometimes I can come up with some really crazy instrumental stuff, but then I’m just left with zero space for vocals. It’s just really opened my eyes as to why some songs can have really basic lyrics, or really basic instrumentation, and still sound great. It’s the choices the songwriter/producer made which are sometimes more beautiful than the words or music itself. This is also part of the reason why I’ve been slowly drawn more and more to recording with other musicians and using less digital sounds. I love the input I get from a session guitarist or a real drummer. I started off doing full on digital pop style music, and now I’m wanting to keep it to acoustic and piano for a bit. And obviously, sometimes you’ve just gotta know when a song isn’t good enough and you just have to let it go. And then you also have to know when a song you’re working on is as good as you can make it right now, and you just have to put it out there and learn from your mistakes for the next one. This has been my experience anyways. I’m still very far from being as good of a songwriter/composer as I want to be, but I’m learning, improving, and having fun.

[@mrdjchasm]

All of my favorite music (except classical and musical theater) is simple music, executed exceptionally well.

[@mrdjchasm]

@Dark of the knight I'm dont disagree but this video helped me notice this fact about my own tastes.

[@mrdjchasm]

@Dust My Broom hahahah! Exactly!

[@jppagetoo]

I sometimes work and work at making something fit. It's clever and it sounds interesting but doesn't work. At some point I put it in the "revisit this idea later" pile and try a completely different approach. I just wish I could learn to move on sooner rather than waste so much time on a doomed song idea.

[@u8qu1tis]

On the plus side, you now know a bunch of ways that could work i the future in the right context

[@mal2ksc]

It's not a waste of time if you do use that idea later. It may be that you really didn't need the time sink right that moment, but at least there's some hope of getting it back. I usually have 0 to 1 front-and-center projects, one on the side, and a couple on the back burners getting cold. It helps deal with pipeline stalls like that.

[@PaulSpeed42]

Yeah, for almost a year now I've been writing a song a week (or so) for a music weeklies challenge group on twitter... in the end you have to be cut-throat about moving on or nothing ever gets done. I leave one or two tracks at the bottom just to drag ideas "for later" if they aren't working right but I'm afraid to delete them. Easier to put your darlings in a corner than to kill them outright. (And I can always go back and listen to them later to see if they really were working better than I thought at the time... but 90% of the time I never listen to them again.)

[@CMM5300]

Sometimes it takes a lot of scratch ideas to get to the gems... Plus the more experience the better you get at it. I noticed my songwriting get better with more experience and simplier. Sometimes less really is more

[@LynnHermione]

It's gonna sound..... *questionable*

[@tavicotavio]

>"It didnt need to be there" >Draws Navi from The Legend Of Zelda

[@hunni3243]

LMAO

[@evanfive3298]

O o f

[@theunwelcome]

"that's where things get tricky" he draws a Battletoad! too perfect!

[@thealientree3821]

“That sounds like a bad idea” > Draws Pinky

[@PhantomOfTheMall]

“Hey!” “Listen!” So glad to be reminded I’m not alone in my feelings for Navi.......

[@aidanmallon9879]

1:20 NO NOT THE HIGH G

[@bruceartur]

When I was...

[@riverzin666]

@@bruceartur a Young boy...

[@thealientree3821]

In the marching band.

[@senpaibryn6196]

@@hunni3243 well shit

[@riverzin666]

"my father molested me in the marching Band" This escaleted really quickly

[@idoperach]

Great video ! I think there is something you didn't talk about and I find it very important, The best arrangements always make sure there is a simple ideas (per section) of the rythem, Melody and harmony that you can and should focus on, an extreme example to this is the song my Sharona, the song is simple but also powerful because you have this rhythem idea you understand and the whole band is playing around it, a more complex idea will be the pyramid song, there is still a basic idea the whole band is playing around. last example will be beethoven fifth symphony, the simple idea of the beginning, is the main idea, you can here it well and most people will follow this line (even if it changes the instrument) My point is, you have to know where is the listener will focus on and make sure you don't make them change what they should focus on every second.

[@rockin0]

1:19 did he just...

[@michaelw6277]

Your point regarding covers makes me think of Johnny Cash’s cover of Hurt… at first glance it sounds completely different, but listen to it back to back with the Reznor’s original and it’s extremely faithful. All Cash did was strip it down to the bare minimum being three repeating chords for the verse and four chords for the chorus with a couple of supporting background instruments for intensity at the appropriate moments. Cash didn’t even bother with intricate strumming patterns… all down strums. Pure genius in that way that so few musicians seem to be able to do.

[@woulg]

Instant like for "power metal highs"

[@ClichéGuevara-2814]

I used a similar philosophy with home recording as well. i'd give myself a time limit, almost always 30 minutes, to record all instrumental and vocal tracks. After the half hour, I stopped and worked with whatever I had. It really helped me to stop overthinking arrangements. One or two harmony vocals max, and nothing too complex. After using this approach for a couple of years, I began to notice the similarities that ran through most of the work. Certain intervals I would favour with voices, and how I would balance 2 guitar parts. I think that's how I learned what I would, hesitatingly, call my "sound". As opposed to "style", which takes far more deliberation.

[@cheesecakelasagna]

1:19 I wasn't expecting to tear up this early.

[@AmandaKaymusic]

I think keeping the raw track is a great suggestion. My compositions often continue to evolve, morph and change with knowledge gained, mistakes that unexpectedly become integral parts (like the semitone flat chord to actual outro final chord adding a spice to draw focus) and performers I am playing with or arranging for (choral arrangement for choir very different to arrangement for cuban lating jazz fusion band, different from electro reggae arrangement). I love that songs change. I do forget what they were to begin with after a few years and being able to listen back to the original capture can bring back parts that have been lost. I hear you about the mixes too. I am sad to have lost some original guitar chord guide tracks from studio sessions. Changing the chordal instrument to keys changes the voicings so much I would like to be able to compare them again. This week I have found a requirement in my life that I find difficult to answer. I have tried explaining how impossible the question is to answer. @12Tonemusic maybe you could help. How long does it take to write a song? How much of the songwriting time is considered actual work? As songs are always changing in small ways as I change and the players I perform with change, to me it feels like songs are never actually finished and every moment of everyday, even my dreams and nightmares, contribute to the ever evolving process of composing. Can a song ever be finished, or is it just a capture of a moment in a compositions life? I wrote a song called 'Strategically Abandoned' about this topic but it isn't finished yet. ☮🌏♥️🎶🦋

[@ibfreely8952]

And for a moment I thought you were gonna analyse "Enemy of God" by Kreator, which is a banging song btw.

[@tytipton6346]

I truly appreciate all the information you’ve obviously worked hard to learn and doubly appreciate your skill in sharing your hard-earned knowledge so effectively. So cool! Love your channel

[@Glicksman1]

Trying to write a song is the biggest obstacle to doing it. They rise like butterflies. The more you try to catch one, the farther away it goes. Melody and lyrics are mysterious things that come to you usually when you least expect them. Steven Stills said that he thought that his songs came to him from somewhere else and that he was just the conduit. I think he got that right for all of us.

[@emanuelebonura783]

I first misread "the surprising Enemy of God songwriting", which is an awesome thrash metal track from the german band Kreator, you got my hopes high man :(

[@WiresDawson]

maybe he'll do that video next as a prank ;)

[@Epitappi1878]

Enema of God

[@bruceartur]

1:19 I wasn't prepared to cry 😭

[@franktranks9445]

WHEN I WAS A YOUNG BOY MY FATHER TOOK ME INTO THE CITY TO SEE A MARCHING BAND

[@ballhawk387]

I've found the enemy of composition to be actually *composing.* The best tunes I've come up just happened, not having been deliberate attempts to compose a song, but ideas that came to mind when half asleep, running (including a Who Sell Out like ditty called "The Running Song" about being out for a run and having a bug fly in my mouth and down my throat), or from farting around on an instrument, even from exercises, such as drilling myself in odd timings to improve my rhythm. Anything to get me out of my head and into my fingers, limbs, voice, and heart. If it's just a song in my head that's not played on an instrument, then actually figuring out the arrangement can be a very involved process to make the instruments play something like what my mind hears. As an aside, The Prisoner is one of my fave TV series of all time, too.

[@lp-xl9ld]

"Just because you CAN do something, it doesn't necessarily follow that you SHOULD...and even less so that you HAVE TO." Don't know who told me that but it's damn good advice all the same.

[@waltrohrbach2459]

Good job on pointing out the pitfalls of overthinking expression via music, a medium that relies not on human language in the first place, but on emotion. The adeptness in music theory is a great tool - again but mostly for human analysis and judgement. It may lead to an engineering approach on composition, that is not new and fine, but also leads into cul de sacs of the musical kind. The solution? IDK but the obvious, paying attention to emotional impact of the artificial construction, play it to random people. BTW the construction is a great tool, no way around it, then it may be a good canvas for improvisation on top of it, which is of course not as much premeditated and provides emotionality, the saga ends and both sides shine. Your visualisations are funny and captivating. p.s. be seeing you (the prisoner aficionado )

[@SimGunther]

The song is the most important member of the band

[@ruvimusics7442]

i love how u draw stuffs in the video while talking in the background

[@artistsometimes2729]

3:04 My problem with the photo-realistic scenes and animation in Toy Story 4, funnily enough.

[@jf1376]

Michael Jackson King of popular music once said you send writers block unto yourself because it only comes in to being when you create it you create it when you say so

[@NikkiLayne]

I've been writing and producing my own music for about ten years now, and this problem was easily the single biggest thing holding me back from making a good song. I can not stress hard enough how important this is for beginning composers. EVERYTHING you write needs to be in service of the song as a whole; and when in doubt, "KISS!" Keep It Simple, Stupid!

[@erikbarrett85]

I'm so stoked on this Polyphonic series

[@InvalidOS]

1:18 And with that drawing of a winged strawberry, I know that disliking Celeste is impossible.

[@mariocisemusic]

Not just any winged strawberry. That’s a golden winged strawberry, and there’s only one of them in the entire game! It’s also the only fun golden strawberry to collect haha

[@InvalidOS]

Mariocise Music Should’ve noticed the crown. Yeah, I’m aware there’s only one.

[@jonipaliares5475]

I was looking for this comment, Celeste is truly a masterpiece

[@ferenclucas2842]

Really smart intelligent content always get alot out of it. one point is that the close edits with no breaks at all through the whole video make it a big effort to keep up and not miss anything. I'm going to try and see if the youtube tool to slow it down makes it easier to understand :) thanks I will keep watching 😊

[@ezion67]

While watching this video somehow the name Jacob Collier popped up in my head: Amazing superhuman musical abilities that I remember, but his music, err... nope.

[@heinrichskies]

I get what you're saying, but have you heard his latest album though?

[@ezion67]

@@heinrichskies Guess I have to check it out.

[@heinrichskies]

@@ezion67 yeah indeed, it feels like he is refining his style and making his music less overwhelming... and more subtly beautiful.

[@richardrichardson6816]

I guess he is still pretty much aware of what he is doing, his cover of "Fix You" for example. It's very minimalistic (only his voice and piano), not overcomplex towards harmony/arrangement (what he could've easily done) but leaving a slight aftertaste, not ruining the original atmosphere. So, my point is that he does have the understanding of where it becomes "more serious" and where he have the full field to experiment with his bizarre ideas.

[@Nono-hk3is]

God, your doodles are *SO ON POINT* in this video!!

[@TheBassPanda]

2:43 "It didn't need to be there" *draws Navi* That was savage

[@matthewresch2607]

This is a GREAT breakdown! I learned a lot of it the hard way. Having better writers than me point out why the way THEY did Am, C, G, and the way I tried to do it. Just cuz it’s the same chords, it’s the approach. he had found a unique way to play those chords and had an original idea for it, where as I thought simply strumming or a standard pattern would suffice. I’m reminded of biggie. A lot of rappers from the 2000s on had the 90s model, and at first glance, it’s “talk about drugs and hoes to a beat, got it!” And that made way for insert your favorite rapper to hate here. But it wasn’t WHAT he talked ABOUT. It was HOW. The man told stories in a great way that put you right in the room with him. You feel him calculating every move in an attempt to stay ahead of the other character in the story, it’s really fascinating how he used words. But when you don’t understand that, you think “drugs and hoes” and just go. The same way rock bands cop what are great ideas by great musicians, but use them in an inferior way. And I LOVE what you said about people who just HAVE to make every cover THEIRS.

[@scmontgomery]

12Tone: "Didn't need to be there" *Draws Navi* Me: AAAAAAAAAAAH I see what you did there

[@henroriro]

1:20 I can't be the only one who subconsciously expected Welcome To The Black Parade

[@voiceinthen0ise]

I want to be able to draw like you do.

[@wesleyAlan9179]

Yeah...I like his doodles,lol

[@aaeiou90]

Do it slowly, then, when you nail it, increase the tempo.

[@robranney-blake8731]

I love love love the cartoons. When discussing scales, visuals are a huge help. But today I was busy while listening, not watching. I realized you write and talk so well, and given the topic, the visuals were, well, unnecessary embellishments. Irony is fun. And thank you, sponsors.

[@dallen3000]

in other words, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

[@666wurm]

"Don't over-do it" - good advice for many things in life.

[@jxrprime215]

1:19 say that again

[@shabbyyyy]

When I was 😢

[@aaronbennett80]

I have a Music degree as well and can relate to this pretty deeply. I often lost passion for a song I was writing when I was too busy trying to make it 'smart' and the other parts began to lose significance. 9 times out of 10 these songs never got finshed. I wrote many songs I still believe are great, some have complex parts but the complexity always came naturally from experimentation, usually with other musicians providing their input. So all our parts individually were simple but combined became more complex. I now work as an computer network engineer, and the same is entirely true with engineering. An inexperienced engineerw ill look at their project/tools and often come up with a design/plan that is far more complicated than it needs to be. They look first at what they can do within the project brief, rather than making an efficient design that meets the project requirements in the simplest way. Put simply I think this is a very universal concept, simplicity is hard, complexity is easy. A masterful composer/engineer will meet the requirements that they have with an efficient, simple and staightforward approach.

[@agira6304]

1:20 g note warning for y’all who know what I mean.

[@wai6886]

Oh man, this hits hard

[@OM-md6ki]

My chemical romance?

[@Gnurklesquimp]

Cramming in cool and interesting' things is definitely a trap for me... I kinda suck at melody writing, particularly if it's more than just a little riff, I notice this is where it's worst for me. I add something and I'm like ''Nah, not doing it for me''.... Then I listen to other music, and I'm like ''Ehh'' until one particular point of interest comes up in the melody etc., and it suddenly makes all the simple stuff sound interesting. I'd say that is my biggest issue, either starting simple accepting that interesting stuff will emerge if I go with it, or starting interesting and then giving that space by keeping most other things simple. I always feel this impulse to convey all the cool colors of the harmony with the melody, but sometimes you just gotta play a whole bunch of simple and repeated intervals with a more rhythmic mindset. There's exceptions to everything, but trying too hard to force in and spell out all those mode defining notes etc. rarely sounds good to me. Some of the exotic pentatonic scales and tunings/subsets that use fewer than 12 notes really made me realize you don't always even want to convey that full 7+ note sound anyway, you're really locking yourself out of colors at that point. I still do generally prefer those denser harmonies with tons of chromatic stuff going on, but will try to go for less immediate gratification when it comes to those interesting sounds.

[@dew7555]

As a fellow tenor composer I relate to going all-out with Gethsemane all too well. This gave me a huge sense of deja-vu and put into words many creative realizations I've had personally. Great video, man. Question: with Gethsemane, are you team "build up slowly and hold on to why should I die with another high g over the 5/4 section" or team "rip into why should I die beforehand and let the 5/4 fanfare breathe"? Im not sure if many people would be interested in that song, but I'd love for you to take a look at it in one of your breakdowns.

[@NielKlauss]

is the pattern at 0:10 a mandelbrot set??

[@Opiate1987]

The amount of times I wanted to chuck some interesting stuff into a song, but it didn't work out is immense. 90% of the time, there's a simple trick to allow you to actually implement it, and it's tricky because most of those aren't really related to harmony, or melody. So, most of the time, it's not the wrong chord, or note, or even rhythm. It's mostly about giving your little idea enough space to breathe, and that's almost always achieved by stepping down and taking a break, while you try to look at the bigger picture. Once you do that, an answer such as "just put a pause before it", or "add a crescendo before it", or something as simple as that, becomes clearly visible.

[@galacticjuicedaddy1305]

While I've known all this subconsciously, i needed to hear it.

[@musikhippie4030]

I also was a vocal performance major but my juries were focused on opera and art song. I just found your channel. Ive was minoring in composition but never wrote anything for voice, funny right? I felt stumped and I recently picked up the dream again and focused on more simple songwriting but fell stumped when it comes to writing a vocal line and a nice melody. You got a sub from me!

[@ragismrotzrochen5776]

As a songwriter, I can only say that this is very true and very overlooked. Most bands learn that the simple or straight forward songs are way more popular than the ones the band is proud of. In general, bands are proud of songs because they are hard to play or cleverly written. And "catchy" or "straight forward" don't necessarily mean "not clever". From time to time I will try to shut down my theory brain and just play some random piano or guitar. Many times I found melodies and progressions that stuck, so I immediately assumed they were simple. And when I wrote them down, I suddenly learned that they were in odd meters or used unusual modes or voicings.

[@VaughanMcAlley]

It's nice to get a good idea for the emotional high point of a section. The tricky bit is building up to it so it makes sense and will carry the maximum impact.

[@lighterlemin]

Why put “songwriting” in the title when you’re mostly talking about arranging? I mean the first half of the video is all about mistakes made while doing cover versions. I get that it illustrates the “don’t do too much” point but it’s not specifically about songwriting, you might as well have used an example of when you made a sandwich in college and put too much hot sauce on it, or a mix with too much reverb. Those examples would tell us as much about songwriting. Misleading

[@soulofwaves]

He isn't speaking about mistakes while doing cover songs, that's just the example he used to illustrate the point behind (he said it clearly in the beginning). He spoke the whole time about how inexperienced songwriters end doing something that doesn't sound right.

[@robertdilano9733]

It's all about balancing simplicity with complexity. Or "unity" and "variety". The book "How Music Really Works" by Wayne Chase explains the concept beautifully.