How I'd Learn Music Theory (If I Had To Start Over)

[@12tone]

I didn't know this when I filmed but CuriosityStream is having a Father's Day sale this weekend so you can actually get 41% off right now (and still get the free Nebula account too!): www.curiositystream.com/12tone and use promo code "12tone" Some additional thoughts/corrections: 1) I should note that I do have some experience with external pitched instruments, specifically bass and piano, so if I'd gone the "learn an instrument" route, the takeaway would've been practice those more, not learn them at all. 2) On the suggestion to listen to music from other cultures, I'd add that while that should include traditional practices, it shouldn't _only_ include traditional practices. Many of these cultures are still alive and well, and checking out modern popular styles from around the world can be an eye-opening experience.

[@marqgoldberg7454]

It would be AWESOME if you could do a video about how songs are actually written. For example, I dont think about all these relationships between chords and such. I just bang on my guitar till I hit it a way I never did before that sounds good. Then I try to figure out what would sound good next. But maybe not everyone does that. Maybe someone more knowledgeable works it out based on the intervalic math or formulas. Maybe my work ends up being less creative, or technically wrong, because I'm working within my limits. Id like to know how you would see this topic.

[@antoningilbert1615]

@@marqgoldberg7454 i dont think there's a right way to create music, nor a more creative one. I think music theory just give you hints, basically, not paths.

[@AntHenson]

@@marqgoldberg7454 I think most people would bang on the guitar with one set of fingers on the fretboard and the other doing something to the strings... This might sound trivial but that's an example of an intuition that come from having learned some aspect of theory, which then goes on to suggest the kind of things that might end up sounding good. If we had to try everything from scratch we'd probably not get much of a sound out of any instrument, but with a little intuition from knowledge comes guided explorations. Imho creativity comes from balancing the leveraging of existing intuitions (built over time through both theory and practice) and the creation of new ones. Every creative person in history has had to straddle that line.

[@TAP7a]

@@marqgoldberg7454 classical/jazz theory gives insight into the structures that tend to occur in the music from which they were derived. With that in mind, you can apply them backwards to generate options that are stylistically appropriate to classical/jazz/whatever, but if you only use theory to generate your music then it isn’t going to sound great. I use classical and jazz theory regularly when I’m writing because these days I choose to write in the styles to which they apply and it helps me to keep the focussed while emphasising divergences essentially for free, but the process is never ever ever divorced from the fundamental “does it sound good”. I don’t write strict Bach chorales or fugue counterpoints, but I do enjoy the flexible but specific options that parallel mode borrowing gives, I like the tension/release pattern of traditional cadences and suspensions, and I like being able to make deliberate choices about modulations and colourful notes and all that rather than improvising until I land on a good one (although I’ve done plenty of that). Maybe my creativity is being limited by those frameworks, but I choose when to work in them and when to break out of them, and I enjoy the process of using them to make music that I like the sound of. Swings and roundabouts.

[@Roses_R_redeR]

....🥀

[@zapptuff5186]

This video couldn't have come out at a better time for me. I'm disabled and despite a strong love for music, I've never been able to play any due to my chronic joint pain and weakness. Fortunately this summer I will have some time to try my hand at using a DAW and attempt some production. However, I am starting entirely from scratch with no clue what I am doing. This video provides some great starting points and though it's daunting, I can't wait to try my best at this. Thank you!!

[@zapptuff5186]

@@jack.a.driscoll thanks so much for taking the time to send me this!!

[@jack.a.driscoll]

@@zapptuff5186 no worries! I'm dyspraxic and electronic music and daw production is so much more accesible than learning an instrument. which DAW are you thinking to use?

[@zapptuff5186]

@@jack.a.driscoll I'm glad to hear you have found this route more accessable! I'm a Windows user so I am planning to use Ableton, I got the lite version with a midi keyboard I purchased.

[@jack.a.driscoll]

@@zapptuff5186 cool! Ableton is decent! also worth trying out Studio One as it works on PC and is a similiar workflow to Logic and Cubase etc,and it's not that expensive :)

[@zapptuff5186]

@@jack.a.driscoll Thanks for the reccomendation, I shall give it a look!

[@furious444]

Drawing zubat for “they’re everywhere” and yes, yes they are

[@avielp]

My fav Poke'boy

[@kleinesfilmroellchen]

That's one of the standard things he does and it's great

[@RudeSnipe]

HAHAHA I came to say this. I saw that, and hit subscribe.

[@evo2542]

also cliffracers from morrowind

[@juandavidguerrero7947]

i was going to write about that thing too, zubats are everywhere¡

[@isabelleliu995]

1. 0:38 Analyzing songs 2. 2:32 Transcribing songs you analyze 3. 4:08 Read journal articles/other forms of scholarship 4. 8:05 Learn about music production 5. 9:19 Listen to a lot more music - go out of your comfort zone

[@euphoria.yunjin]

thank you for timestamps!

[@kenizl86]

And teach. Teach what you know.

[@elizabetharias6989]

Thanks

[@robertdahlstrom]

bonus. 6:16 Parker square :)

[@quanathan]

you the icon in these comments

[@DC_Prox]

A little piece of trivia revealed by orchestral listening: the opening theme of Avengers: Endgame is the same as the opening theme of Infinity War, but with only half of the instruments.

[@albertvankrieg5548]

Didn't know that, it's an amazing detail!

[@MrScrofulous]

And the latest Greta van Fleet song is These Days by Powderfinger. And La Grange is Shake These Hips by the Stones. I could go on.

[@keymaster430]

Nice work, Ducky!

[@GhostPartiesMusic]

@@MrScrofulous Bit different though as the Avengers example is self-referential.

[@apuji7555]

wow, I did not realize that! thats pretty smart actually

[@emmbeesea]

I'm very, _very_ grateful that my musical beginnings are in piano, despite my dislike for most of my lessons. Reading two different staves helped me instinctively learn how two different voices (hands) work in tandem and set me off for learning so much more, not just about theory, but also how a whole bunch of instruments play. All these years later, I'm now learning the basics of production and I wouldn't be anywhere near the musician I am without the piano because it inherently teaches you a lot. Keep on rockin'!

[@freesk8]

I'm a guitar player, and this is totally true. Piano is much better for learning music theory. All three of my kids are taking piano lessons. But I will always love guitar! :)

[@tobins6800]

Not to mention the fact that is one of the easiest instruments to compose on. You take a complex chord, break it up into slices where you want the other instruments. Granted, it may take more than 2 hands, or a lot of copy and paste. But, altering some of those slices will ultimately make the whole more interesting.

[@valentinovigovv]

True. But i did it backwards, i started production and sound design first and then learned piano, and still studying.

[@rioriorio17]

I learned a lot of music theory by playing piano without even knowing

[@Aurora-oe2qp]

Wait, I've read this exact comment somewhere else too, maybe somewhere on Twitter?

[@leaveitorsinkit242]

Mixing/Mastering has been huge for me. It’s one thing to have a good song, it’s another to have it SOUND good.

[@mantaanafm]

True! Still haven’t release my first song yet due to me being too versatile so it’s been hard to release a song and go with one style and stay in one genre because I can go on a beat in EVERY genre and it’s struggling to choose🤦🏽‍♂️

[@jooheonshoneybal]

Trxvis Montana being versatile is a really good thing actually. And you don't need to stick to just one genre. That's what makes your art "yours" after all.

[@wistfuloptimist1238]

@@jooheonshoneybal ^^

[@Brisbae]

I'm jealous of you. I've been somewhat slack in improving my mixing and (especially) mastering skills since I've started producing. I simply find it incredibly dull. I also genuinely have trouble differentiating good and badly mixed songs, so when I go to mix my own stuff I think it sounds... okay(unconfidently)? Of course I know the basics of mixing, did a pretty detailed online course, and learned about it in uni as well, but I think it's a difficult thing to progress with. Do you have any tips for improving your skills in these areas. Any resources that helped you? Any advice for not falling asleep while mixing?

[@taxevasioniskool]

i’ve been a violinist for nine years but my music theory knowledge is basically nonexistent beyond what i use every day so this is UNBELIEVABLY helpful

[@Ruid-YT]

Haha I'm a violinist and pianist but for some reason I only think more about theory when playing the piano...when playing violin I could barely think of the theory until I sat down and had to analyze the music. so dont worry it will come with time im sure

[@aliquidcow]

I am very glad that I had guitar lessons, unlike a lot of people I've met who are self-taught. My teacher's approach was pretty much this - we'd learn a song that would generally be something at least in the zone of what I like, then we'd look at what was going on theory-wise in it. So you started with the 'fun' part of being able to play something cool, then used something you actually liked and were familiar with to learn the 'academic' stuff. Plus he taught a lot about active listening and really encouraged me to work songs out by ear, which has been a massive help. It's why I've never understood the thing you hear people say about how 'learning theory will make my music bland', because I've always just seen it as something that's just as much a part of learning music as learning to play the instrument.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

Wait this is exactly what my teacher does to me too. He lets me pick whatever song I like so it will serve as my assignment to transcribe the song by ear, learning the key and all the chords. After 1 week I play to my teacher the song regardless if I make a mistake or not. Then he will correct me on some mistakes and explain to me how all the notes, chords, melody, key changes, work together.

[@georgebrown1807]

As far as things I wish I had done studying music theory, you hit most of them. But here are some things I did while studying music theory that weren't part of the official music theory courses that provided some extra insights: 1. Writing music that deliberately sought to break the rules you were taught. A big problem with how music theory is presented is that the rules are presented as simple cases of right vs. wrong. But really it's that the rules are guides to how to present a certain kind of sound. By deliberately trying to write music full of perfect fifths, or with a whole bunch of dissonant intervals, you can both get a good appreciation for what the actual purpose of those rules is, and for when it's justified to break them. 2. Reading about the history of the various composers we would study. The Ben Shapiro school likes to present some form of purely objective music detached from its social context. Learning about how the Odhecaton brought printed music to a wider audience in the 16th century, or about Wagner's anti-Semitic attacks on Mendelssohn, or about Janáček composing his "Sonata from the Street" in response to police violence, you get a better feel for the significance of the music than you would just from a pure music theory analysis. 3. Learning the mathematics of sound. On the other end of things, I was a math/music double major, so I also got exposed to the actual mathematics of harmonic analysis. When you learn about Fourier series, it's not typically presented as being about music. But it helps understand why the overtone series exists. And what accounts for differences in timbre (music theory classes usually don't talk about timbre).

[@KalebPeters99]

Thank you! These are some fantastic additions to the list. Are there any particular history books/sources you recommend?

[@elmo44449999]

Agreed! I was lucky enough to take a class on the physics of music, and it was fascinating. Learning about the mathematical basis of concepts like consonance/dissonance, timbre, why the 12-semitone scale is so handy... it blew my mind. And made me VERY obnoxious to actual musicians, like "oh, you think you know about harmony? BUCKLE UP"

[@Aurora-oe2qp]

Ooooh, these are all great. Especially 1. As someone interested in maths and physics I've been thinking about 3 a lot already, though, especially exactly what makes notes sound consonant or dissonant. It's actually a really hard problem.

[@KillswitchStreamer]

I fully support #1.

[@voidtremors5814]

@@elmo44449999 I am legitimately afraid of you

[@dimitri877]

I'm (re)learning music theory at 45, and it has opened a view upon myself I always thought I did not posses; understanding music. A very strange feeling, like driving a car for years and only recently learning traffic rules for the fist time and they immediately make sense because you have known how to drive for so long without knowing why. It has helped me to understand instruments, because someone gifted me a guitar (which I did not know how to play properly #dontjustlearntabs), and I remember vividly how much I sucked at playing the only instrument I was allowed to play by my parents: the electric organ.. Music theory is like 'drivers ed(ucation)', learning the rules of a complex system and understanding why these rules make sense..

[@the-engneer]

You explained this so well! I have been giving guitar lessons for year's, and I learned the hard way if you start by saying "Okay you must learn a G chord, a D chord etc. You always bore that person and scare them away", instead say " What kind of music do you like? We are going to learn a simple song in that genre of music or a song you know and like", and once you teach someone one song they tend to want to learn another! I taught one kid to play 2 songs, and now he is almost a better guitarist then me

[@echomee4190]

i feel you, im not a teacher but i taught my friend how to play. i taught him his favorite songs instead of telling him he has to know X and Y. badabing badaboom he now knows more than me. i would be lying if i said i wasnt jealous but as the person that taught him how to play he's my pride and joy. i know he'll make it far someday.

[@flameindigo8035]

absolutely. i taught saxophone for a bit and when my students had trouble with the first five notes i taught them the wii sports theme opening. bam. they got it.

[@dedenunes5187]

Still trying to understand 12tone's obsession about elephants

[@kitkatsci8700]

They've got great big ol' ears. And big ol' *clompy clomp-clomp to the beat* feet

[@tiyenin]

He's stated previously that they're the earliest animal for him to draw.

[@emanuellandeholm5657]

Asking the real questions!

[@MythicSuns]

@@tiyenin Plus they're known for having really good memory

[@AntHenson]

@@kitkatsci8700 and their noses are basically wobbly trumpets. What more could an animal need?

[@drybrusheverything3034]

I'm a musician of 19 years, 7 of those i would say were "professional" and I've always had a good theoretical knowledge. Learning music throughout school helped me with the foundational concepts but i was never much of an instrument player. I would say its only in the last 10 years that I've really started mastering my main instrument and i remember the moment that everything i had learned prior (which was almost everything theoretical) just started unravelling itself over the fretboard and it all just made sense in 1 day, after a VERY long time of not making sense. It was almost like these 2 separate worlds aligned all of a sudden. I suggest implementing everything you learn in theory class on your main instrument because having your practical knowledge and theory knowledge at the same level is the most rewarding thing I've experienced with music.

[@imalamboman12]

Progress is not always linear and intellectual!

[@RoselynTate]

The pre-rigorous, rigorous, and post-rigorous phases apply to SO MUCH about music education. In my experience, most branches of music education at the college level focus so much on bringing students through the rigorous phase that students don’t really learn to step past it until after they’re out of school for a while - which, at least for performers, is how you move from being a student to a professional. Yet many young artist are basically pigeonholed into staying in the rigorous phase - because school is supposedly about learning to be better - when in the arts that’s often counterintuitive because how are you supposed to find your own voice as an artist without moving beyond what your teachers say is right or wrong?

[@MrScrofulous]

I agree, but it's not just music, it's pretty much any discipline. I have never heard of this concept before, but it explains so much about what's wrong with education and training in stuff in general. Most people get hung up in the rigorous phase without even knowing it and their teachers don't realise they are supposed to be leading the students through it, not locking them into it.

[@RoselynTate]

@@MrScrofulous Yes, definitely, it’s a universal issue, particularly in university education. I’ve just found it can especially problematic in the arts.

[@ghoti221]

It’s hard to teach period. Unfortunately, I’ve encountered the other problem way too often - everybody is used to doing their own thing, and when you try to get them to work together, it’s extremely difficult because nobody is singing from the same hymn book. The real answer is somewhere in between, which is hard, because there are very few people who can follow the rules, yet also know when it’s time to break them, and then they also have to be able to teach that too.

[@MrScrofulous]

@@RoselynTate Exceptmfor guitar player. Guitar is the instrument of chaos, thank goodness. Most guitar players despise the idea of academic rigour. The few that don't take it the opposite extreme.

[@RoselynTate]

I’ve found that jazz players and early music specialists are actually the best at this? The improvisation inherent to those styles of music tends to make them more flexible performers, and so they’re often better at learning the rules and then going past that to learning when it’s okay to bend or break them.

[@lema1337]

I'm a producer and theory is so fun and helping but sometimes I distance myself from my knowledge because I sometimes I like to experiment and my knowledge at times works like a wall

[@tsukkikei571]

That means your knowledge is not enough. Once Rick Beato answered "Knowledge never makes you hit the wall. It even expands your creativity." No offense😁😅

[@lema1337]

@@tsukkikei571 might be very true actually

[@snowblind8572]

@@tsukkikei571 if you're taking advice from Rick Beato, you're doing it wrong. the way people create music is extremely subjective, something that might catapult one person's creativity may very well block someone else's. No offence.

[@dionysus9873]

@@lema1337 if you’re producing from what i’ve seen, theory does help on a base level for production but after a while what makes you make better songs, beats or whatever is your own creativity and your own experience. music is an art and theory is a stepping stone that helps you improve but you wouldn’t say that taking 1000 art classes will make you an amazing painter or drawer because the knowledge isn’t what gives you the ability to express yourself and create something beautiful.

[@teamyordle23]

That's what I mostly do. I learn the theory but when it comes to writing music I don't rely on it for creativity unless I'm stuck. Someone once said that theory is descriptive not prescriptive. You use it to understand music and not for writing with it. It's mostly true from what I've seen. In the end the ears never lie. If a song is bad it's bad.

[@m.davidallen1203]

I've been learning a lot of theory but don't necessarily know how to direct efforts within the huge territory. It's like you said in the video, there are so many branches and sub-branches. I think sometimes that rather than doing music theory just for pure interest, it's good to "have work", and to need to perform some task, to focus the learning and force the mind to learn the branches necessary to do the task, rather than just sample the entire space endlessly.

[@AxemanMessiah]

In summary: learn theory but take it easy. Learn your favorite songs and analyze how they came up with them. Listen to multiple genres to how they work.

[@Superlotuswaves]

Thank you

[@garfield4863]

My bloody valentine: “tuned two strings together and bent the whammy bar”

[@mantaanafm]

I’ve been listening to almost every genres now I can’t choose the right style for myself because I can go on a beat in every genre. It’s getting depressing cause I’ve been doing tons of different music styles and I just feel odd

[@mags3906]

@@mantaanafm sometimes i feel the samee. I write best in sad songs but my voice is pop then its rock and im so into pop/rock my whole personality is like that as well. Creative.

[@vivsavagex]

I wouldnt say he said “take it easy” quite the opposite honestly. Its more like “apply concepts to the real world and to things you actually like”…i wouldnt say theres anything taking easy about what he suggested learning. Stuff will take you a lifetime.

[@radiobe4179]

I've been into music production for a while, and it have done wonders for my general knowledge of music. One thing that I think is pretty cool is that you're basically forced to transcribe, if you're working with samples. And you want to be! Samples force you to take musical ideas that are out of your comfort zone. Another thing is: you get a knack of how instruments combine, pretty much because you can't have a single loop playing over and over again, cause that would be boring. So you want to add variation. And this makes you think about types of sounds ("I want a rising thingy to open this measure here!", "Oh a pad would be nice here to make the music thick for the chorus!"). And about breaking repetition by means of pitch and rhythm. And about establishing familiarity before breaking it, etc. The mix proccess makes you consider frequency range, and I think this is so good for developing orchestral hearing. Also, how frequency correlates with "forward into your face", musically, in a way. The craziest thing, for me, was that I intuitively developed, over the course of time, the capacity for so many things. Like, basses. I can "see" basslines, I can audiate way more. It's like, you're initially blind, touching your way around, but things eventually start to make sense, kind of like muscles grow, if you play enough with your musicality.

[@myketison9770]

I love these "if i had to start over" videos. they really help guide newbies like myself in the right direction, so i really appreciate this. i have one question though: how much of the fundamentals should we learn (scales, chords, etc.) before we start attempting to analyze and transcribe?

[@felixmarques]

Before you learn scales or chords, you should learn basic acoustic/psychoacoustic concepts. The harmonic series, and how they make timbre exist, is a crucial starting point.

[@deviationblue]

Blessed be 12tone in the almighty algorithm.

[@kitkatsci8700]

🎶 Hallelujah 🎶

[@deviationblue]

@@kitkatsci8700 🥰

[@ryla22]

All hail the algorithm

[@luci1st43]

void Bless(){ return Amen }

[@argenteus8314]

I can really second the idea of just reading stuff on the subject that seems interesting, even if you don't have the knowledge to understand it fully yet. Not just specifically with music theory, but with any subject you don't understand, _especially_ if you find the subject confusing. Even if you're not consciously understanding the concepts involved, your brain is still patiently cataloguing the pieces until it can figure out what they're saying, and things gradually start to make more and more sense, until suddenly you've fully wrapped your mind around the subject, at which point progress at 'digesting' it is much faster and the brain fog that previously occurred when you tried to think deeply about the subject disappears. As you may be able to see from the specificity of that description, though, I think this is heavily dependent on how your individual mind works; I suspect my style of learning is rather atypical, and as such I don't think this method will work for everyone. For those with brains similar to my own, however, it's quite useful.

[@leomiller2291]

This is why when I realize I’d like to someday know how to do that thing, I immediately begin that thing instead of learning it that distant day. It takes TIME for the brain, or should I say my brain, to digest and make sense of information. For example, if I know that in two years I’ll have to take an organic chemistry course, I start involving myself in the world of organic chemistry TODAY so that my brain can every day piece the subject together little by little.

[@shadowscott9910]

I got into theory backwards. Pentatonic to add two notes, the difference between “key” and tonal center, V to I,.... and it keeps piling up from the bottom. The playing did more for me than the transcribing... but ya gotta transcribe, so... And playing did more than listening... but then again you gotta listen to transcribe... That’s why I am here is to learn/understand more. The advanced topics you discuss often exceeds my ability. Great videos.

[@Mr_Kirk_]

This is SO right on time for me. I've produced music for years intuitively and I'm now learning theory. Literally starting with the book Idiot's Guide to Music Theory (which is great) and I'll be following it up with Idiot's Guide to Music Composition. After getting half way through the book, I'm rewatching some of yours and Adam's videos with new understanding. So much more fun when you know some theory. Like now I know WHY I love Sting and The Police and Earth Wind and Fire, etc. I'm also starting to understand how to take my music in interesting directions ON PURPOSE rather than feeling my way through the dark like before theory. Thanks!

[@macalmy6750]

I love that you drew the Parker Square to accompany the remark about "giving it a go"!

[@JGMeador444]

That absolutely sent me when I saw it, and I came to the comments looking for someone else who called it out :D

[@nicemorphism8529]

@@JGMeador444 Same. Jumped to the comments to make sure I wasn't the only one

[@darkacademiavanessa]

oh... i thought this was for beginners 😭😭😭😭

[@HermeticJazz]

High school level music theory is what hes talking about now.

[@Acelestialerror]

me to helppppppp

[@wenomechainasama6161]

@@HermeticJazzbruh i need kindergarten music theory first 💀😭

[@HermeticJazz]

@@wenomechainasama6161 its better to learn this first. Im just an improv jazz clarinetist. Im the wild magic sorcerer equivalent in the music world. Composers are wizards I have an intuitive approach. My advice is get a pocket sax (less annoying than a recorder) learn how to play mary had a little lamb there you go. Start learning patterns and scales. Music is something a lot of people only learn after doing. Theres also a playlist on this channel that walks you through how to read music basically.

[@Kathesticzzz]

I too .....l don't know even ABCD of music theory any idea how much time will it take

[@MikeS7]

"I'd begin transcribing music" great I wish I knew how to do that lmao

[@orphaneduk5672]

You can learn- it involves listening to a piece and trying to play or notate what you hear, and it's very good for sharpening your ear and general musical understanding. You could start by looking up the basics on KZbin. 12 tone might even have a video on it?

[@evan7618]

It's like production but paper.

[@peanutgallery4]

Try making a song on Minecraft note blocks. Worked out pretty well for me.

[@cristianjuarez1086]

you dont wish to know, you learn to know

[@pordzio]

Just apply the "Parker square" paradigm: just give it a do. If You have an instrument try playing what You hear. When You succeed, then congrats! You just transcribed Your first music!

[@lemmasim98]

Man, explaining things to others has changed literally everything for me I had this opportunity this spring to have weekly lessons with a friend of mine, and this really cemented what I knew, made everything a lot clearer in my mind, made me want to fill all the gaps in my knowledge and expand to new topics. And now it feels weird to look back at the lack of confidence that I had till the start of these lessons. It felt like music, and especially music theory, was something outside of me, just something that I used to do. Now it feels like something characterizing of myself. And I say it changed literally everything because this affected not just my approach to music. Now that I recognized the importance of this practice I want to do it for many more things. There are so many topics that I started to study but never felt interiorized cause I dropped them after reading some books, never talking about them with anyone. The difficult part is to find someone really interested in this kind of talk ahaha That said, I still have to improve in a looot of the things you talked about in this video. I've analyzed so few songs, transcribed nothing, hadn't read anything academical, I don't know anything about producing (and even as a performer on my instrument I'm kinda bad). And I absolutely agree with you on the importance of all these things, that already were on my list of next skills to develop. It's great to me to hear this kind of experience from you, and it would be nice of other youtubers in music theory replied to this video.

[@OGLoko-ed1ys]

Wanna teach someone else over discord maybe? I'd love to learn.

[@Jus10Giraffney]

Pink Floyd was the band that really got me into separating all the things I was hearing and seeing how they came together to make such fantastic music. Even as far back as the first album there's so much going on, so much experimentation, you really have to know how to listen to pick up on more than just the surface

[@miraclePoints]

8:13 You just articulated a frustration I've dealt with in learning music that I've always struggled with but have never been able to describe. Likewise, all of the music teaching I received as a kid was vocal training, with little understanding of theory. When music theory channels talk about chords and intervals, I would not be able to keep up at all and my eyes would glaze over. It finally makes sense to me. Since my training was vocal, my pitch matching comes automatically and by ear, and thus I didn't need to develop those skills as a kid. I've tried learning piano a few times but bounced off of it for this reason. Maybe I'll give it another shot in the near future.

[@theopminer952]

I’m thankful that my current theory teacher is a jazz teacher, and constantly reminds us that almost everything can have multiple interpretations.

[@cchng]

02:42 Nice illustration for "useless" lmao. Great video btw man!

[@tapeexperiments]

One trick I like to do when analyzing music is to take a song I know on guitar and with the guitar still around my neck sit down at a keyboard and play it on a keyboard or vice versa. This helps my brain see the theoretical connections in two different formats. It’s similar to what you were saying about transcribing. It helps cement it in my brain in a unique way. You don’t have to start with anything complicated- just take a C major Triad, look at one on the guitar and then look at one on your keyboard etc. In this example, it can really help you understand what it is you’re doing with those three notes.

[@FelixWheatfield]

6:48 100%. I became a full-time guitar teacher at a local music school recently, and teaching a variety of different ages and skill levels as well as coming up with lesson plans for my students has absolutely bettered my understanding of music for my own self. I find myself using techniques that I just showed my students in my own playing and it's vastly improved my vocabulary as of recent.

[@martinortiz5298]

As a musician trying to learn latin genres the best way to differentiate them has been making playlists. It gets me thinking about wether a song is chacarera or gato and having to justify my decisions using lyrics, instrumentation, groove and many other things. I'm wrong more often than I'm right but it helped me learn the core aspects of many latin american genres and what makes them sound the way they do.

[@WizardOfArc]

You drew a storm trooper for “useless” lol

[@salildeshpande7]

They just need some more practice

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

@@salildeshpande7 Nah, they did a great job drawing their Stormtrooper.

[@salildeshpande7]

@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 I was talking about the storm troopers

[@late_arvie]

Me: Breaking down Deep purple riff to play on my guitar. 12tone: this is the way!

[@KalebPeters99]

Hell yeah! Keep going 😁

[@tomwasnotfounddc143c8]

Finding this video has revealed to me a world I always convinced myself was not comprehensible to the ones that have not been into it since they were young, I am really hoping to get better in music, and I want to mark this as the start of this journey, will see how this goes down the road. Thank you for making this video!!

[@BlueMeeple]

I wish I had learnt about tuning theory and how it connects to "normal" music theory (and some basic microtonal stuff). Also, I wish that both theory teachers AND instrument/orchestra teachers would have helped to see how the understanding of theory and solfage helps in performing music.

[@zachmikovitz5616]

This might be the most valuable music theory lesson I have ever seen for someone in the early stages of learning theory. Outstanding work here

[@paulcifer9016]

The three stages of rigor. What a concept, and how true is it when applied(applied mathematics) to music and the ear!

[@purple_cat7836]

i’m so grateful that i have a tutor now that’s teaching me this way. having adhd it’s always been SO hard for me to learn theory; in school i failed on my music test worse than my math (and im no mathematician)…my brain just breaks when it gets to learning concepts like theory, especially when it’s not relevant to my interests. i’ve always had a strong love for music but my inability to transcribe what i create and have the vocabulary to describe what i like…the frustration has always been there and i feel like my growth as a musician has been stunted because of it. but now it really feels like i’m making progress!

[@Dominik-K]

Thanks a lot, this was super interesting and it's amazing how I already know the others you shouted out on YT. The journal was new to me, so thanks a lot for that.

[@ogolthorp]

You make some amazing points about the relevancy of theory in different genres and how it might apply in different ways. For me, I think the hardest part to beginning to learn about theory is changing the way you think about music. In a lot of ways and a lot of genres, there’s essentially a math equation going on. Whether it’s with the structure, the harmony, the melody, or the rhythm, theres some aspect of it that is following some sort of formula that has already been established. Once we realize what parts fit into what formulas, we can begin to break down pieces more easily, and find the really interesting nuggets within those pieces. I know analysis became so much easier for me when I could look at some sheet music and tell fairly quickly what the structure was and where each different section began. Because you also know there are some “rules” to be followed for each of those sections so you know what to expect when analyzing it more thoroughly, and know when to dig deeper if something seems out of place. So yeah, I think the best way to start learning about theory is to start with those overarching formulas and where they might apply.

[@KianCortada-Covarrubias]

I literally just searched 'music theory' to start learning. Great timing🤙🏼

[@חייםבןהקון]

This video is a Treasure!! Thanks!

[@SteveReaves]

I did finish my degree in Music Theory. At the time, I was transferring from a school with a traditional band/orchestra program and a football team. The school I was transferring to, not so much. I didn't want to give up my accumulated credit, and had already finished my piano proficiency exam. So, the school I was looking at had a smaller Music Program, but what it had that my current program didn't was a Music Studio program, and a Songwriting class. I decided to give it a semester, and talked to the Songwriting instructor after class, and asked how I could finish my Music Degree in Songwriting, so he created a program for me. I write 6 songs, finish a 6 hour Theory Capstone and all my other requirements, and the rest is history. And yeah, I'm working on a channel right now myself. It's not much, but I did go to a lot of Jason Blume Workshops at BMI, and was being mentored by a writer for MercyMe before I decided not to go that route. I'm trying it the rough, indy way. 😂😂😂

[@AmareLunaMusic]

Music has been my passion my entire life, but I never knew what to do with it. 2 years ago, I picked up a bass and started playing. I found your Comfortably Numb theory video by pure chance and from that point, I dove into theory and never stopped. Now I'm writing my own music and starting a music degree in the fall. You're an inspiration, 12tone! Keep it up! :D

[@celestindupilon2773]

Thank you so much for encouraging me to keep learning music theory. Btw: Drawing your icons while explaining the things you wnat to, seems to me like you are composing, writing a score, while I am watching. Thank you!

[@MegaBeeYT]

I absolutely love the way you draw what you speak... I'm not exactly troubled, but i have bad memory and bad focus, so the ability to look at the screen whilst you write and correlate words to drawings, then being able to quite literally look back and SEE what you said before when my mind blanked is just... amazing... like- awesome, thank you so much!

[@benjaminstiles]

Oh wait... I’m an idiot.🤦‍♂️ The reason he draws from right to left is because he’s a lefty.

[@Inddesign]

Sometimes the use of both hands is encouraged in drawing or writting, just in case, some People use both, you know the drill. To me you are not an idiot, Best wishes!

[@amandahammond2691]

*they

[@charlesmwolf]

id argue that its just how he does things, not every lefty would draw right to left like 12tone does

[@benjaminstiles]

@@charlesmwolfwhat I mean is that he is drawing right to left because he uses his left hand.

[@charlesmwolf]

@@benjaminstiles yeah, and as I said, its not necessarily because of his handedness. a lot of lefties would do it left to right regardless. and i know some right handed people who go right to left because of their native tounge being written that way. (its far more the direction taught then the handedness in my experience)

[@rayres1074]

Also, your tip on looking at scholar papers is HUGE! I was able to found analysis of niches I was interested but couldn't find on youtube (dream theater's ENTIRE discography, for instance).

[@KillswitchStreamer]

The dangerous side of music theory is knowing enough to think you're right.. but not knowing enough to realize you're wrong.

[@Mari-kh1lu]

As a Music Education student myself, I'm watching this video and soaking up all the advice given. I'll be going into my sophomore year this fall and Music Theory is by FAR my hardest class.

[@corygumminger6349]

How'd I go all this time without knowing we had the same name? I've been watching your videos for I don't even know how long

[@shaunsalem]

I’ve had about a decade to think about it, and if you asked me ten years ago what I would have done differently, my answer would have been different than my answer is today. Being a teacher and knowing the importance of the skillset to analyze music and internalize learning, I think the place to begin is ear training. Learning to listen to melodies and identify intervals is a pretty good way to build the skill set for studying music theory. Once you can hear 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc, the ability to follow a melody and bass line while reading a score as you listen becomes easy to do. So, I recommend BEFORE studying music, find a good interval training app or website and just build up that skill set. As a percussionist, I started with a solid rhythm foundation. If basic rhythm confounds you, learn how rhythms are written. Learn how rhythm and pulse are established with downbeat stress and organized in measures on the staff. All of this is fundamental to your ability to analyze music and follow scores. So, that’s what I’d argue is the first step of learning music theory. Otherwise, the rest of this video is spot on!

[@supertroubledude7376]

I've been changing how I think about music by watching Rick Beato videos

[@KnzoVortex]

Be careful about his takes on todays music though, they're pretty out there... 10:04 This quote here describes it really well. Rick Beato is pretty disconnected from where the pop music world has gone, and therefore ends up saying some really strange and ridiculous sounding stuff because of this.

[@KalebPeters99]

@@KnzoVortex agreed, he does have some great jazz and theory videos though!

[@triad5766]

@@KnzoVortex - example? He compliments pop music when it deserves it and trashes it when it deserves it.

[@roblosh8417]

Spoiler: Rick’s “out there and *ridiculous* takes” is actually just him saying that the songs he doesn’t like aren’t as exciting to him as pop music as a whole from a couple decades ago. That other comment was a little sensational and vague, so hopefully this gives another perspective. Both Rick and 12tone have great videos, it’s just that recently 12tone made a video called “Why Rick Beato is wrong about today’s music”, referring to Beato’s personal taste as a musician/teacher/producer. I don’t think that it’s anything you have to “be careful of” personally lol.

[@triad5766]

@@roblosh8417 the average 12tones watcher seems to have an IQ of 75 tbh. This comment section is so dramatic.

[@JamJockey]

All your great advice aside, I’m new here, and your little drawings you do along side what your are saying are flipping adorable.

[@katelensworld]

First day of summer vacation and I thought I'd finally teach myself some music 😌

[@user-hornyforadventure]

How's it going

[@irvingmartinezanguiano9774]

I have found that sharing and building knowledge with someone else who's also interested in music theory is a great way to stay motivated and curious. As a beginner in music theory I appreciate the great content, man!

[@Inddesign]

I wish i had this Information when i Was a little bit Younger, sincerely it feels as if there is an avalanche of theory that one must Master,still, is not too late right? By no means i am a Good musician (i am an industrial designer) but music is fascinating to me, despite all the negative remarks of music teachers in my area and their "ageism" of not wanting to teach me. so thank you so much for All of your videos!

[@jaredc8281]

Lol I literally am going through all of this right now... I just started playing guitar again, but also picked up an arturia microfreak and several studio pieces... I've been studying the guitar Grimoires, learning about synthesis, pianos, and music production for a few hours every day and it's paying off. I can take what I'm learning and read the authentic sheet music while listening to the song and understand what dynamics brought me there to begin with. It's usually not _just_ the notes (or words as you stated) that capture our attention; but rather the overall dynamics and messaging.

[@samuel3807]

I like that for the visualization of "break through it" he drew kool aid

[@krystawisner6043]

Thank you for this video! I am in my second year of my songwriting and production bachelors and I am working on building a daily music theory/ production/ songwriting practice! This was a perfect video to highlight what I should be working on!

[@pluflop]

How I wish I learned music theory: Step 1: know music theory

[@erz6306]

me 2 ;)

[@TyQuinn]

Great plug for nebula. Lots of KZbinrs I follow will plug Nebula - but this is one of the few times anyone has actually given me a concrete (and compelling) reason to check it out. Usually it's something along the lines of "check out my streaming service nebula, it's like KZbin but has a fee" which never really gave me a reason to sign up. Definitely will be signing up for a year and give it a go

[@kitkatsci8700]

5:59 I just found an article called "Rhythmic Techniques in Deaf Hip Hop" by Anabel Maler and Robert Komaniecki (Vol 27, Number 1, March 2021) that I'm excited about reading!

[@gavinvalladares]

i've been working for the last few years as a session/touring drummer-in addition, i play a number of other instruments, but this video was great in finding direction for pursuing a better understanding of music theory. looking forward to reading more scholarly articles and watching as new knowledge influences how my writing style for my own projects in addition to the projects of others. thank you!

[@AnInterestingStory]

I imagine 12tone writing class notes this way 💀

[@jrpipik]

Great video. Everybody is a music theorist in some way or another, but it's so valuable to give yourself a vocabulary for it.

[@wiesorix]

Corey: "Just give it a go" *draws a Parker square* "What's the worst that could happen?" Well, it seems that the worst that could happen is that your experiments haunt you for the rest of your life, and that the internet keeps mocking you for them. That seems quite bad to me...

[@Markle2k]

And here I find myself in the comments looking for someone else who noticed that.

[@nadoProducer]

Awesome roadmap for new theorists, composers, producers, etc.! To go hand-in-hand with "go learn production", what really helped me was arranging songs--kind of the next step up from transcription. Also, weirdly enough: play rhythm games. If you pay close attention, well-built rhythm games will teach you the triple identity of harmony = melody = rhythm, something that I find a lot of new theorists have trouble wrapping their heads around. Lastly, don't fall into the trap of obsessing over the "names" of chords--theory is just a language to translate the muses whispering in your ear. I think at some point we're all guilty of getting overly theoretical for theory's sake, but I think it's worthwhile to remind ourselves that we're learning the language in order to tell better stories.

[@lucidmoses]

Have you ever looked at the way parody songs change the original music in small ways.

[@LookieBird]

This was the first video of yours that I watched! It was so much fun seeing the cultural touchstones you reference in the doodles, and the lateral thinking you use to get there. You must've been born in 1985ish. This is great advice. Over the last couple years, I stumbled across some of these approaches as I toddled towards writing music. Simply writing out songs I loved was extremely helpful, especially for finding patterns. Thanks!

[@mateusbez2669]

Guys like you, Adam Neely, Rick Beato and David Bennet made me want to learn music theory 20 years after been playing guitar. People tried to teach me. It never interested me. But when I started seeing and understanding how theoretical concepts influenced and explained how my favourite songs sounded and made me feel, got me hooked. Then I started to try to make my own analysis and discuss with my (also guitar player) brother. For that, I had to learn a bunch of things. And reading articles is a great way to learn things. I usually try to understand something, only to see I am short on knowledge to understand. Then I study the base knowledge until the complicated concept I wanted to grasp makes sense.

[@rhysedwards4428]

I'm curious to hear you and other people's thoughts on this. I think at my college a good reason of why people struggled through theory was tied to how poorly ear training was taught or cared for. Basically leading to students being able to identify the theory on paper but couldn't in their general listening. I also bring up ear training as a preface possibly to transcribing. The way transcribing is mostly taught from my knowledge is that you "just have to do it" but I think better correlating it with ear training (not just using examples from Bach and similar, but using modern music as well) could help it be easier to grasp for people new to theory. Transcribing is such a powerful tool and I wish it was emphasized more in non jazz settings. Thank you for the awesome videos! :)

[@Angel-ip7pw]

Im trynna impress people with my minecraft noteblocks

[@mattkaz9604]

Very interesting, and your cartooning out the conversation is genius level. Nice.

[@AntHero18]

"give it a go" *draws Parker square* LMAO

[@flazefeeds381]

A man of fine taste

[@Christopherjazzcat]

I'm playing solo gigs and writing arrangements of jazz and pop tunes. I occasionally gig with a jazz quartet as well. I studied music theory at uni and the chordal analysis in particular really helped me a lot.

[@theactorjohnlarroquette]

gonna tell everyone i was just waiting to start learning theory until this video came out and not that im a lazy hound of a musician

[@icedpony]

12 tone man. So inspirational! To me your channel has consistently been the best at opening ways to understand music as an evolving concept rather then that fixed point my great gramps is always raving about. Keep it up!

[@corwin32]

Well, I didn’t know your name was Cory (sp?). That was new information.

[@frigginjerk]

Nah, it's 12tone. "Cory" is a stage name.

[@AtomizedSound]

I started my music theory journey in college and you’ve covered really most of the main points in your video. One is never done learning about theory. There’s always more to learn and something new or fresh to be discovered about it I believe. I think writing your own songs or attempting to on some instrument while learning theory in addition to analyzing other songs helps significantly. I mean really learning all the relationships of the notes and branches that theory involves, one step at a time so burn out and fatigue doesn’t happen. It’s easy to be discouraged and cram too much in a short amount of time that one can lose focus of their goal. So starting with free resources one step at a time in digesting theory can really take you far for you figure out what to do with the rest

[@realcareers]

Don't waste your time with this video. No practical info on how to do what he advises, "analyzing songs", wtf does that even mean and how to do it? No answers. How much actual music theory is required to do that? No answers. This is all theoretical advice that's all context and no content. What a waste of time.

[@prod.slowjoe6639]

Better to just buy a music theory book, take your time and let the book guide you.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I’m so glad that I’ve figured out to do 4 of these in my own autodidactic journey! It’s very validating that my gravitation towards transcribing, analysing, and covering songs (learning production for the last) is stuff you wished you’d done haha. Funnily enough, I started with instruments and have found learning to use my voice extremely instructive. I could always whistle pretty good due to playing sax, but feeling the changes in my vocal chords gives me a deeper understanding of intervals compared to the various fingerings on various instruments. I can directly feel the difference, rather than just pressing different buttons. A guitar is sort of in the middle of that for me, since it’s more direct but the fret guides are also guardrails. Singing, especially consciously-controlled repeatable microtonality have really helped me to understand when to bend notes on other instruments. I used to just vibe the wiggles on a pitch wheel or trem arm, usually in integer numbers of semitones. Now I’m consciously choosing every aspect of the bends down to a cent or two. I suppose that’s just a testament to how one specialty is limiting though. If I started on voice I’m sure I’d have learned a bunch from instruments like you lay out! Definitely going to have to look into that free theory journal…

[@user-jz9zr1hm7z]

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[@tomw9024]

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[@kylemary5742]

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[@samueljeff9200]

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[@casperegims4618]

I wanted to trade Crypto but got discouraged by the fluctuations in price

[@davidjesse8988]

@@casperegims4618 That won't bother you if you trade with a professional like Mr Thomas fair

[@loslobos9461]

I’m amazed that you doodle so well holding the pen like you do!

[@jusk8lp]

I'm a total novice in music theory. While I've been a church singer for a long time and singing as a hobby for longer, I have not mastered any instruments. I did not have enough discipline to learn piano as a child, and my hands are too small for guitar, even as an adult. I've only started watching your channel and a few other music theory channels because I've just started learning the lyre and the psaltery by myself. You are incredibly helpful to my music journey, and it's nice to know that I'm on the right track. I listen to just about everything from classical to metal. XD

[@milesbaureis504]

Ever try one of these guitars? www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StratMinIBK2--squier-mini-strat-black-with-laurel-fingerboard (I should probably also clarify that I'm not sponsored or anything.) They're quite a bit smaller than average (3/4 scale), so I think that it would be easier for you. I recently purchased the bass version for almost the exact same reason (even as an adult regular basses are too big for me to cofortably play), and it's fantastic! If you do decide to get it, I reccomend buying a Rocksmith adapter in general (converts guitar cable to usb and works on all platforms to my knowledge), and Rocksmith as a learning tool for the guitar. Also if the sound isn't quite good enough for you, I'd advise changing out the pickups before getting rid of the guitar. Regular size pickups should work as far as I'm aware, and I'm sure you can get a sound you like out of it. I hope you find this to be helpful :). I've been playing guitar since around september of 2017, so I hope that can lend me a little credibility.

[@jusk8lp]

@@milesbaureis504 3/4 scale, huh? Thanks, I'll take note of that. Meanwhile I've actually bought a Philippine boat lute called a kudlong. The model I bought looks like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3eZZJJtn7OVgK8 I'm getting a hang of it. ^_^

[@milesbaureis504]

@@jusk8lp That looks and sounds really cool! Interestingly, I have a friend who also has a background in singing that recently purchased a violin, and is trying to learn to play it. I'm currently using my Rock Band games as a way to improve my singing in conjuction to singing the vocals as I play the melody on the guitar, which I've been doing since I first started on guitar, and I must say, it's helped devolope my ear a lot. I'm actually starting to be able to produce notes without a reference pitch. Not to say you need to do that (although it's a lot of fun, and not anywhere near as hard as singing on top of a song's regular guitar parts). It only took so long for me get to this point because I didn't practice singing too much until just recently due to being extremely self consious and shy (oddly an issue I don't seem to have very bad on guitar), so I almost exclusively sang when I was alone. The exception was basically just singing with my afformentioned friend. I also only just recently began using Rock Band to improve my singing because I've only just recently gotten access to it at a skill level good enought to play it. I used to die on even easy, but now I can finish songs on hard while playing the guitar on expert. Sorry for going on a bit of a tangent. If you decide to to look further into the guitar, I should also bring up the strap: for some reason, they also shrunk the strap buttons for this guitar, so if you have a drill, I'd advise getting regular size strap buttons and screws (and the felt washers if you care about avoiding letting the strap buttons scratch the guitar), if not then get the one with the strap from Amazon so you have the correct size strap. Search for 'fender strap blocks' (or use a cheap rubber washer from the hardware store) if your guitar strap frequently slips off your guitar. You can find a good deal on amazon where they bundle 2 sets with a regular sized guitar strap, and 3 picks. Also I'm sorry they only have the 3 colors to choose from (only 2 for my bass lol), but that's almost a non-issue with how easy it is to change yout guitar's color. And I'm sure you've heard it before, but I think it's worth repeating: always remember the key to making good music is to having good time as you make it. Although don't let that keep you from using it to express anything you want. That is the most helpful advice I've come across for everything involved in making music. I feel terrible for all the kids out there who are only given the least engaging material. Based off your musical tastes though, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I also like just about everything from classical to metal although I get quite picky about slower/softer songs and country music. I rarely think of genres (I often find them to be a little too limiting), but while I have respect for nearly all music, I don't really enjoy listening to most modern pop and country. I pretty much only like pitch correction being used in the way where you make your voice sound robotic like T-pain (who's actually proven he can sing quite well without it). I struggle to think of a country artist I like, but I've not come across a Johnny Cash song I didn't like the sound of. Also I've never learned the piano, but I think I'd have fun with it. My first instrument wad my mother's old clarinet, which I've actually just regained access to. Sorry for rambling. Anyway, I just hope you have a good time making music. Enjoy the kudlong!

[@StrawDogsPu]

Definitely play with other people if you have the chance and feel comfortable enough. I’ve learned more from my bandmates about playing and theory through learning their songs and teaching them about cool stuff I find on my own time, jamming is really rewarding and not as scary as it can seem coming from college theory classes without a lot of prior improv experience with others lol

[@Shjandy]

Getting back in to guitar after a 7 year break. I was self-taught taught and learned by ear back then. I knew the names of notes and that was it. Had no idea where they were on the neck though. Now I'm learning where they're at on the neck and trying to learn all these different chords and scales and it seems so overwhelming trying to get in to music theory. But one step at a time as I go up this crazy mountain of music theory

[@charsiuwu8084]

I'm learning lots of theory from your channel! I'm also a singer from practical experience, and I'm desperately trying to rapidly expand my horizons and your channel does world's for it.

[@Lodestone8]

My suggestion is A. All of this, plus B. Play music, plus C. Make music, don't just know the tools or pick apart another's work, use them, create see what you find mess around, maybe you'll find concepts you hadn't encountered yet like how I discovered additive rhythm by not bothering to notate anything until I'd tapped out a solid groove on my leg.

[@RafaelStrangiato]

Drawing a stormtrooper to represent "useless" was superb! *chef's kiss*

[@bobwesthead7233]

Dude, you must be high as hell from writing with that sharpie. I hope you have good ventilation.

[@clvr51]

Great video, I'd really like to study some theory but I always get super anxious at the idea of starting something new cause I don't know where to begin, so thank you, this helps a lot!

[@AndrewTaylorPhD]

Nice to see a Parker Square used in its original "give it a go" sense

[@TNGfan8794]

Having access to channels like yours has really helped me to grow my understanding of music theory, especially when it comes to chord progressions and the use of modes. I wish I had taken more music classes in college, but deeply appreciate the sheer number of musicians on KZbin who are generously sharing their knowledge in creative and entertaining ways. Thank you for everything you do!

[@Maurício.9215]

I've been a musician since I was a kid. I didn't finish college (music), but I've learned a lot from the classes, and I've always been a curious guy. You are one of the great examples of great content on KZbin. I love your videos. Thank you so much for what you do!

[@imadlebiar1546]

Thank you, for everything, you're great