12V vs 24V Trolling Motors - 3 reasons why 24V is more efficient

[@andyjame1880]

*This makes my old motor look like a toy **enjoyable.fishing** recommend it's well built. I haven't had it on the water yet, but I'm very sure it will perform just fine.*

[@timd7782]

This was an excellent physics lesson. You really know your stuff! Your video really helped me realize the advantage of 24 volt. Based on your video, I decided to go with a 24 volt Motorguide Xi5 80 lb instead of the 12 volt 55 lb. I was just trying to avoid adding another battery and so I could use my battery switch. I decided on all Ionic lithiums which are very expensive, but I think I will be glad I did. Since they are two twelve volts, I can still take them out of series and have a backup in the event of main battery failure. I have a 2018 whaler montauk 170 that weighs about 2500 lbs loaded. I think the 55 lb 12-volt would have been at its limit (on the power curve) all day, especially because of the significant currents, waves and wind in the ocean here in Boston. For my old 12 volt minn kota 55 riptide in my old 15 ft montauk, I had 6 gauge wire going to my bow plug, which was a pain to fish from the console to the bow. With the 24 volt setup on my new boat, I went with 8 gauge wire, which will be easier to fish through and work with and since it only travels about 7 feet, it should be just fine. Thank you for helping me avoid a mistake. Since I already made the decision to have a saltwater trolling motor - mostly for the spotlock feature to avoid anchoring in waters over 100 ft - I should make sure it can actually do the job and not become a toaster oven.....

[@hokep61]

Finally.....someone who understands Ohms Law! Thank you so much for your in depth explanation!

[@GoldenChannels]

Your comments gave me a laugh this morning. Glad to help. Thanks for posting.

[@ashwinvasan375]

This is great! New to the math and physics around trolling motors/electricity and found this tremendously helpful vs a lot of other bad web content out there. Thank you for making this video!

[@GoldenChannels]

Ashwin, thank you very much for the kind words. Glad to be of help! Take care.

[@PNW_Wolfpack_Adventures]

Amazingly informational video with exactly what i needed to know without all the fluff. Wish more KZbin videos were as good as this. Thank you sir.

[@GoldenChannels]

You're very welcome! Glad to be of help. Check out our wiring for trolling motors if you are looking for cables!

[@Wayne-xy6yw]

Well helped by your video and my experience with the !2 Volt Neraus engine mounted unit on my 16 foot fibreglass Cabin Boat I moved to a 24 Volt Unit together with a 110 amp Lithium Battery. Whilst the Battery was expensive I now troll at around 1.9 mph at approx 14 amps which is giving me around 6 hours without stressing the Battery. All in relative silence ! Am very pleased The amp draw for the same relative speed is also notable according to the weight carried in the boat.Ie with or without an auxillary motor and additional people. With the 12 volt I was getting 1.42 mph drawing 16 amps and 2.18 mph drawing 53 amps .

[@GoldenChannels]

Wayne, I'm very pleased this video helped you size out your system. I spent a great deal of time on the internet trying to sort out a similar problem with my boat. I'm very happy to share my learnings. Thanks for your note. All the best.

[@deanwatt]

Fantastic rundown! I would love to see a video about how you were saying you could hook 2 x 12v batteries up to a 12v motor. Also you mentioned that you could upgrade the 12v motor to a 24v one by swapping out some components! That sounds really cool. Thanks in advance and keep em coming!!

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Dean. Thanks! We're about to release a few more videos early in January. Thanks for watching and your feedback.

[@amadosanchez7483]

Thank you, very informative! Just what everyone needs, a true professional!

[@GoldenChannels]

You're very welcome, Amado! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@wesleywillard]

Great video

[@lewandlo]

Thanks for the very informative and educational video. I now understand more of how things work with amps and volts vs power .Cheers from Ontario.

[@GoldenChannels]

Lewis, thank you for the comments! Glad to be of help. Don't forget to check out our FB page: facebook.com/GoldenChannelsInc

[@howardswanson2343]

very comprehensive understanding and well explained ! Off to the garage we go. Thanks for taking the time to pass this along. :)

[@GoldenChannels]

Howard, thank you for your kind words. More videos are on the way. Don't forget to subscribe! All the best.

[@keithmoore408]

Excellent video, your very knowledgeable. I upgraded my 12v 45 lb MinnKota to (2) Lithium 100ah batteries hoping to improve runtime fishing in 3-5 mph current. Could I expect to gain more runtime running a 24v 70 lb trolling motor system?

[@GoldenChannels]

Thanks, Keith! Short answer is yes. Exactly how much depends on the AWG of your power wire, and the length to the battery, however, the most significant reason it will be more efficient is there will be a lot less % of power loss in the trolling motor itself at 24V. 5% minimum advantage, but could be as high as 20%

[@ObregonAlex]

HI Dean, this was pretty enlightening. I have two trolling motors a 12V-55 and one that came with my new boat 24v-70 The latter came in really bad shape, I since have replaced whatever needed to get fixed but never installed it and use the 12v instead, I totally notice the lagging early on my days (and a hot plug) when it has been windy or I am working in heavy current. Boat came as well with two batteries same size but different brands and provably ages as well. Now one of them is dead and I need to replace it. At the store the gentleman told me that there is no problem in mixing batteries, that is not what you said and I have a feeling that you know what you are talking about🙂 So not to make this any longer looking forward to your video about UPGRADING 12V to 24V that will be awesome and also if you can tell us a bit more about mixing batteries. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge in a way that is easy to understand.

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Alex. Thanks for your comments, and I'm glad you found the video useful. The 24V conversion video should be out before end of summer. Obviously, there are other items that need to be changed to allow onboard charging from the Yamaha Outboards 12V charging system, and also shore power charging. Thanks for subscribing. We'll let you know when more videos are here. Tight lines.

[@andrewbraye84]

Well worth my time watching this. Thank you

[@GoldenChannels]

Andrew, thanks for your comments. And don't forget to subscribe. Lots of new stuff coming this summer.

[@zzs7253]

I am curious about the weight difference between 12v and 24v gps trolling motor. The reason for smaller boats to choose 12v motor is because we want to minimize weight for easier transportation. Any data on that would be great!

[@GoldenChannels]

The batteries required far outweigh the weight of the trolling motor. I guess that is why you don't find much data on it. If you have a 12V trolling motor that does not have the large coiled cord running from top to bottom then you have significant savings in power loss due to wiring. If you only need the thrust of a 12V, and can use one that is constructed like this, it would be an excellent choice.

[@WarrenPenner]

Much appreciate your sharing this! Interested in the 12 to 24v (55lb thrust to 70 lb thrust) conversion kit video. Did you ever do it?

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Warren. Sorry for the delayed reply. No, I didn't go ahead with the conversion for three reasons. First, I didn't want to change the charging methods to 24V, either on shore, or off. Second, the 55 lb I have seems to get me to around 2 MPH, so it is fast enough for my purposes. Third, we kind of moved more towards NMEA as our core focus for our business. You may want to contact Northland marine. They can probably get you set up.

[@WarrenPenner]

@@GoldenChannels Priced out the conversion kit through local suppliers in Canada... taxes in, it's almost $1000... Sadly, it's hardly worth it.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@WarrenPenner It amounts to an armature, the control circuit board in the head of the unit, and the logic module for 24V instead of 12. Armatures are $122 USD on Northland, and a 24V Control board is $ $138 USD.

[@dennismartin7429]

Great video. I have a 24 volt powerdrive for a 85 lb kayak and a 120lb scanoe and I have a 24 volt 50 ah battery that I've only used once. Can I buy a second 50 ah same battery to add since the one I have is practically new. I fish a river with current and I figured the 24 volt motor would do a better job because my 30lb thrust wasn't enough to push the kayak in some areas, it would come to a standstill.

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Dennis. Yes, there should be no issue buying a new version of the same make and model of battery and putting them in parallel. My suggested process for putting any two batteries in parallel is to disconnect both and charge them fully, and let them rest overnight. Then run the wires to them to connect them in parallel. This will minimize inrush current between them. Hope this helps.

[@gregjaussaud7198]

Thanks so much for posting! Very informative.

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Greg. Thanks for your comments. You're very welcome!

[@marioraby98]

Amazing information, well explained and to the point. Just for fun, since you are so good about the details try figuring out the power consumption of an additional 60 lbs in the boat, probably the only variable you left out and I am sure it will be negligible.

[@GoldenChannels]

Mario, thanks for the comment. Actually, one of the things that I was planning on doing was a video of some things you can do to improve performance and efficiency of your install. Trimming your outboard out of the water while trolling, for example. Love the comment! Thanks.

[@moose764]

Hi Eric Just watched your talk on 24v vs 12v system and found it very informative. The reason I watched it was that I tried to convert my 2hp petrol to a 24v electric with a motor I acquired but unfortunately the motor was defective and couldn’t handle it. Anyway I am now looking for a trolling outboard for my dinghy but have a dilemma. I’m in aviation so acquired a couple of 24v sealed lead acid batteries @ 13.6 ah each but I also have a 12v lead acid @120ah. I know on the face of it the 12v has more amp hours but I also know that the 24v system would draw less amps. So eventually, here is my question, do I buy a Bison 100lbs 24v for £240 or do I buy a 65 lbs Bison for £199? I’m asking a man who knows about these things so I don’t waist my money and get it wrong. One more thing, the dinghy is used to get us from a swing mooring to the jetty 300 meters away and too and from the pub about 1/2 mile away. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dave

[@GoldenChannels]

For the difference in those prices, I would go with the 24V motor, assuming weight in your boat is not a concern, and that either battery setup gives you enough run time.

[@zuzuanddee]

You’re gold. Many thanks

[@GoldenChannels]

Glad you found this of value, Steve. Thanks for watching.

[@billgoodwin1336]

Very well done video. Thank you for the great explanation.

[@GoldenChannels]

Thanks for the comment, Bill. Glad you found our video of value.

[@josh.kaptur]

thank you for explaining the why behind the what!

[@GarrettWade-l4s]

I have a 12v trolling motor that I have two batteries for. I also have a starter battery. I use a 3 bank charger to charge my batteries. If I were to connect the two trolling motor batteries to make them 24v could I still use the 3 bank charger?

[@GoldenChannels]

You may have to disconnect the batteries from the circuit before charging. Which charger model?

[@JeepDude24]

Thanks for your video! I'm still struggling to decide which transom mount trolling motor to choose. I have a 12ft fiberglass old sears gamefisher rowboat (Semi-V Hull) which I'd estimate it weighs about 200-250lbs. Going to be used as primary power for small lakes. Fully loaded with fishing gear, 2 young kids, my wife, and myself I'd estimate total weight with boat around 800lbs. I was going to order a Newport Vessels NV 62lb thrust 12v trolling motor. (I already have a group 27 12V marine deep cycle lead acid battery thats new) Do you think this setup will sufficient? Or should I bump up to a 24V system like a NV 86? I cant afford a LiPO4 battery and didnt really want to lug around a second 12v battery. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@GoldenChannels]

Thanks for your comments. Glad to help. It is very difficult to find good answers on line for this kind of question. This is due to a number of variables that come into the equation. Things like hull design, weight, and trolling motor thrust all come into what can be expected for speed. My boat weighs about 2,500 lbs. Our 150 HP outboard will push it along at a maximum speed of around 50 mph. When trolling, our 55 lb 12V powerdrive trolling motor gets us to a top speed of 2.1 mph. This suits our needs. I generally troll around 1.5 mph, and keeping everything on a 12V system makes charging easy. My only recommendation for you would be a slightly larger group 29 battery. They will give you quite a bit more run time with only slightly more weight. I would expect somewhere around 2.5 to 3 mph to speed from the setup you are describing. It should definitely be sufficient for trolling.

[@robbierobinson6312]

I hope you still check this post and can answer a question about using 2 12v batteries wired in series. I have a Kayak and want to add a Newport Vessels NK180 24v trolling motor. My plan is to use 2 12v 100ah lithium ion batteries since they are now small and light enough for use in a kayak. The motor will be within 3 feet of the battery storage location and draws approx 460 watts at full power. I was planning to use 8ga wires and 60 amp fuse, and charge seperately. Any recommendations or precautions I should be aware of? will any connector rated for 8ga wire and 24v be safe? I plan to use the Li Time 12v 100ah MINI @1200watts, weighs 19 lbs and is super compact. Thank you

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Robbie. Sounds like a great setup for a kayak. My first comment would be that the Trolling Motor Manufacturer should have a "rigging guide" that would contain their wiring suggestions for each model of trolling motor. This would specify the AWG size versus length. On our website, we have a power loss calculator for Minnkota and MotorGuide models, but not for your brand. Calculations may or may not hold true, depending on the wire using internally in your trolling motor. goldenchannels.com/electric-trolling-motor-power-loss-calculator/ The calculations and data provided on this calculator are based on the two manufacturers rigging guides. My second point would be to choose your connectors wisely. We got out of this business because it was so competitive, but still have some reviews here. If you connections get wet, use connectors that have some moisture protection. None are actually "waterproof". I do not currently think that any one manufacturer has a perfect solution. Lastly, check forums about discussion with Lithium with your particular motor, and see if anyone has run into issues with them delivering too much power to the motor when cranked wide open. There are some folks saying the lithiums are not recommended at over 80% speed, because they will deliver more power under load that traditional lead acid batteries. We can help you with well built wiring, but like I said, we're out of the connector game. Hope that helps. Eric.

[@robbierobinson6312]

@@GoldenChannels Thank you for the quick and informative answer.....I really appreciate it. Newport has been very hard for me to communicate with but I will try again for wiring specs and general info. A lot of kayakers are using the lithium ion batteries in series, most using two 12v 50ah, with no problems that I am aware of. I want the security to fish the I C W, many places being a mile or more from the launch site, and I am too old to want to paddle back in an emergency. For a connector, I am looking at a 70a rated marine type that can use 6-8ga wire. its BIG but well reviewed. Thanks again. It is nice to find a true gentleman these days

[@GoldenChannels]

@@robbierobinson6312 You're very welcome, Robbie. That sounds like a great place to fish. Take care!

[@robbierobinson6312]

@@GoldenChannels I found a couple of your other videos, good stuff. I already had the Marineco connector on my list and the charts that you suggested make me feel that I will be O K with the installation as planned. Again, I appreciate the efforts you have made to help those of us who need it.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@robbierobinson6312 I'm a fan of the newer 70A plug shown in our trolling motor plug installation video. It's what I have in my boat, and it works for me.

[@jimetherington]

Hello Erik, did you ever get around to making your 55lb thrust to 70lb upgrade video? And would that work on any make or model?

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Jim. Things have been a bit too busy to get around to the upgrade, but I can let you know that this is only available for very specific models of motors. The main issue is the sizes of the armature and magnet carrier. The 55 lb to 70 upgrade works, but I have not checked other models. Sorry I couldn't help more.

[@jimetherington]

@@GoldenChannels Eric, Thank you for responding. I have learned so much watching your videos on Trolling Motors, Batteries, Wiring, and more. I really appreciate & enjoy your commentary, insights, and examples. Keep up the good work.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@jimetherington Thanks for the comments, Jim. Glad to be of service! Take care.

[@noyopacific]

I have a 12 volt MinnKota PowerDrive with iPilot that works great. I fish for two or three hours at a time at low power settings in a 16' aluminum skiff. Based on the 3 hours or less that it takes to recharge, my 85 Amp/hour battery is using less that 40% of it's capacity per fishing session. It goes back on the charger as soon as I get back to the dock. There is little reason for me to add another battery or two as well as a more expensive 24/36 volt charger. I'm sure that 24/36 volt motors have some significant advantages but they would be of little or no benefit to me.

[@GoldenChannels]

I absolutely agree! 12V systems have less technical issues to overcome. Chargers and charging systems are simplified, due to the 12V design being more common, and if you want, you can charge with a standard isolator like you are doing. What's more, if you are a good shopper, you might find a 55 lb 12V Powerdrive at a boat dealer as a "take off". That is how I bought mine. Thanks for your comment!

[@noyopacific]

​@@GoldenChannels Thanks! I got my 55lb, PowerDrive with iPilot from a MinnKota dealer as a factory reconditioned unit for $1,050 including shipping. It looks new to me and was $300 less than a new one (if I could find one in stock.)

[@PerchEagle]

What about in case of hobby terrain robot that's using 4 DC motors. And planning to build a 12V or 24V li-ion battery pack. In this case, which voltage level I should go for ? 12V or 24V ?

[@GoldenChannels]

A Higher voltage choice on batteries always leads to lower power loss over wiring. But there are other issues that might affect your choice here. Higher voltage batteries have more cells, and that leads to lower power density, and overall less battery reserve capacity.

[@PerchEagle]

How lower power density ? for example, if I'm designing a 24V li-ion battery pack from 18650 cells, then that would be 7S and for power density I would put multiple rows of 7 cells in series. So 7S5P has more power over 7S4P. For 12V on the other hand, 4S5P would have less power than 7S5p, am I right here ? @@GoldenChannels

[@GoldenChannels]

@@PerchEagle Generally, if you have room for a certain amount of power, if you divide the usable area by more cells in order to get a higher voltage, the mechanical aspects of having more cells uses more of the space for walls and hardware for multiple cells, instead of fewer walls for a lower voltage bank, but with each cell having greater reserve capacity. This may not be as obvious with drones, but it is a huge consideration in solar, and golf carts/RVs.

[@PerchEagle]

Yep, I agree in drones it's a very sensitive specification, because more cells means more weight which could affect the efficiency of the drone. But in terrain robot, I think I can increase the battery size a bit for more power capacity. It's for me now whether I should design 24V or 12V battery pack for my future terrain robot.@@GoldenChannels

[@soobz]

I would like to know the comparison of a 55lb motor running at full power and an 80lb motor running at 55lb thrust. Is this published anywhere? Effectively your site suggests both those size motors are running ~50 amps, with the 80 on 2x the volts of course. Even better would be to know the current at half power settings for both motors.

[@GoldenChannels]

A good question. The 24V Trolling Motor providing 55 lbs of thrust will be more efficient, and therefor will keep going longer from a similarly sized battery setup. If you want to do a direct comparison for the specific motors you are comparing, you can punch in the numbers on our trolling motor wire calculator here: www.goldenchannels.com/electric-trolling-motor-power-loss-calculator/ Current being supplied to both motors will be nearly identical, less the mechanical losses due to the 55 lb being full throttle. The 24V motor at 55 lbs of thrust will lost a quarter of the power through the wiring as compared to the 55lb, which is significant, especially with longer shaft models and those installations with 20 feet or more of wire from the batteries at the back to the trolling motor at the front. Tiller handled versions will be less affected by the voltage difference. Hope this helps.

[@soobz]

@@GoldenChannels Thanks but the calculator only seems to provide maximum current. I understand the motor when dialed back will be pulsing and quite affected by load so will be hard to measure and impossible to calculate. I did find 1 test someone did on an 80lb in no wind/current conditions, where max (10) was 33A and setting 7 was 15A, setting 5 was 6A, suggesting it is not linear, as expected, and that a 80lb running at .7 power is at least 2x as efficient ignoring all other gains as you detailed. However, if they were only measuring peak current those numbers could be way off, but not likely to be worse.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@soobz Thanks for the comments on the calculator. Yes, all trolling motors use what is called PWM for speed control. If you try to measure current on an PWM circuit with a voltmeter, or even worse, an inductance based current meter with a clamp that goes over the wire/cable, the likelihood of getting a true reading is highly unlikely. Maybe this will help. My boat is 2700 lbs dry, with outboard. It is a 18' Campion Allante. I have a 55 lb, 12V Powerdrive with a 54" shaft. On flat water with no current, I can get 2.1 MPH with that motor wound out. My main reason for going to a 24V 70 lb would be to get more of the power to the motor itself, increasing battery life. I'm not worried about top speed for the fishing I do. I'm happy trolling at around 1.5 MPH

[@kennyjimenezjr.1348]

I have a key largo 160 that’s weighs about 1500 loaded I fish saltwater bays, and inlets could I get away with a 12v 55lb thrust ? I plan to only use the spot lock feature any advice would be greatly appreciated

[@GoldenChannels]

What you see on my boat, which is 18 ft, and about 2800 lbs dry weight, is a 12V Powerdrive 55 lb. It can get me to a top speed of 2.1 mph. It is okay in what I would call moderate wind. High winds would be a problem. Hope that helps.

[@kennyjimenezjr.1348]

Thank you for the info, how does it do in strong current ?

[@GoldenChannels]

@@kennyjimenezjr.1348It wouldn't do very well. If you're dealing with significant current, I would definitely go with more thrust.

[@timd7782]

One more question for you if you will indulge me. I was initially confused about the charging of a 24 volt ( two 12-volt batteries in series system), but I think I understand now. I have a NOCO genius 12 volt lithium charger with 3 banks. If I place one set of leads on each of the two lithium batteries in series - I am thinking it will charge the two at above 24 volts, because they are in series and the charger's voltage will also be added together. I first ordered a separate 24 volt charger but then realized I didn't need it and canceled it. Was I right?

[@GoldenChannels]

Tim, Thanks for your comments. The most direct answer I can give you on whether a 12V charger can be used to charge 2 x 12 V wired in series, one at a time, would be to contact the battery charger manufacturer to ask them the question directly. The answer lies is how the charger is designed, internally. Some will work, and some won't. If you have any other shore power connections to your boat will also come into play here. The main factor is where ground is in both the charger and your shore power circuits.

[@TheOriginalJealotFaith]

Thank you for the video! I am considering upgrading a 40' diesel pusher from 12v up to a 24v or even 48v system. Can the same calculations (difference between 12v and 24v) be applied to the difference between a 24v and 48v system? Are there any reasons not to do this?

[@GoldenChannels]

Short answer is "Yes". In all instances, a higher voltage is always better for power distribution. The only difference I can see is the wiring internal to the trolling motor itself is much more than most powered devices in an RV, except maybe the refrigerator. Trolling motors have way too much wiring inside, up to 100', so it's doubtful you have anything in your diesel pusher that has that amount of internal wiring. Obviously, each powered device must be able to handle the higher voltage. Hope this helps.

[@chrislawrence7351]

Very useful and informative video 👍

[@GoldenChannels]

Chris, Thanks for the note. Very happy you found this video useful.

[@carolinacoins]

Awesome video, you made my decision easy. Thank you so much.

[@GoldenChannels]

Moe, you're very welcome. Glad to have helped.

[@ozzynostugots6930]

Can you lead me to where the adaptor on your bow can be purchased. I have a 19' sea ray open bow I am setting up for a 24volt system.

[@GoldenChannels]

That adapter was something that I designed and 3D printed. I used a software package which is free on the internet called Blender to create and shape the 3D model. Unfortunately, it's not a reasonable thing to do unless you've got a lot of time on your hands. But, if you want my model to start with, drop me an email at [e-mail], and I'll send the file to you.

[@omieyouknowme]

Awesome explanation. I just did a video of actual amp draw in a 24v motor, mind if I link your video to mine?

[@GoldenChannels]

Your video is good too. I like on the water tests that actually show testing during use. Thanks!

[@omieyouknowme]

@@GoldenChannels I have seen a lot of videos on motor, even in forum's no one listed the actual amp draw. Figure I make it. The lithium pack made the biggest difference for me, power density and weight.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@omieyouknowme Also, the Lithium reserve capacity is linear versus the amount of current draw, unlike a lead acid battery. Great comments.

[@drmurphy9219]

I also have a Campion Allante 535 s, 130 2 stroke outboard, should be quite similar to what you got there, I’m wondering if 55lbs thrust is enough, I think it is my friend thinks I need bigger, are you happy with your set up?

[@GoldenChannels]

The 55LB Powerdrive in flat water without a wind pushes my boat at about 2 mph at full throttle. I got a deal on this trolling motor, it was a take off from a new boat, and had been used twice, but was in new shape. This particular 55lb can be upgraded to a 24V 70 lb with 4 parts, including armature and brush assembly. I'll probably try this for fun over the winter. I'll do this conversion for a video next. Hope this helps.

[@drmurphy9219]

@@GoldenChannels it sure does, I’ve been researching all day, and what I’ve found is I do t want to be at the top end of the motor, I’m gonna go with and 80 lb thrust, better to be looking at it then looking for it as they say!

[@GoldenChannels]

@@drmurphy9219 Glad to be of help! Let me know if you have any cabling questions. We have a trolling motor wiring size calculator on our website.

[@dabbles1000]

Thanks nice vide, can you tell me where you got the white spacers in the front of your troll motor bracket? Thanks

[@GoldenChannels]

That high tech bracket for my trolling motor was actually 3D printed. Huge project. The spacers are actually center drilled PETG tubes with 3D printed angled washers. You could say that this was one of those project I got carried away on. I might post more about this later. The software used to design the bracket is actually free, and I learned a lot from doing it.

[@dabbles1000]

@@GoldenChannels Thanks, I didn't think it was an off the shelf. Maybe this would be marketable for someone, if not already available..

[@GoldenChannels]

@@dabbles1000 I had thought about that, but the issue is getting the profile of the front of the boat I would be making it for. Its a good idea, but I have to think more about how we could get a 3D scan of the each boat. If a customer could somehow scan their bow with their cellphone using an app, it might be do-able.

[@joebean7262]

Good stuff! Thanks!

[@ryana8022]

I see everybody has questions regarding their equipment and it definitely has me curious about mine! I have a 75lb single seat pontoon boat with a 62lb thrust newport vessel trolling motor running on a 12V battery and it seems to run strong however i’m thinking about upgrading and adding another 12V battery for full motor potential... Is that a bad idea for such a small boat haha?

[@GoldenChannels]

Ryan, probably the most significant aspect of adding another battery for you (assuming the added weight isn't an issue) would be that after a day on the water, your batteries would only be half the discharge state they are in now after a day. This would make them live longer, since the deeper you discharge them, the shorter their life.

[@touayang5841]

How did you get the mounting bracket that your trolling motor is mounted on the boat. I’ve been trying to get one or have someone make me one. No luck at all. Do a video of how yours is mounted. My boat now is very slim and limited flat space.

[@GoldenChannels]

This bracket is actually 3D printed, in conjunction with a great deal of time spend designing it. I'll try to get to making a video on how I did it, but I also don't mind sending you the 3D model I used if you want to try something similar. But each new boat requires a lot of design changes. Have you ever worked with 3D printing?

[@touayang5841]

I do not have any experience with 3D printing. It’ll be great if you can share any tips and ideas 💡. Thanks for replying.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@touayang5841 You're very welcome. Sorry I couldn't be more help. The major issue with designing a 3D printed bracket is every boat is different, and you need to somehow scan the shape of the bow you are designing a bracket for. Once you know the contours of the boat, you could use that as a form for my existing bracket, possibly. I may talk more about this later on our facebook page.

[@jasonking7003]

Great explanation!

[@GoldenChannels]

Thanks, Jason!

[@Ryan-rx8ie]

So to run power for radio fish finder ect . I can’t run the power off the 2 trolling motor batteries anymore if I upgrade to a 24v system I would have to buy a third deep cycle battery or run off the main starting battery correct?

[@GoldenChannels]

Yes, that is the wrinkle. I'm debating the same thing right now with my 55 lb. trolling motor. My Yamaha engine has a "house battery connection" which will also charge /isolate my second battery bank, and that doesn't work after a 24V change over, either.

[@NaturalAltitudes]

When two 12V batteries are connected in series to a 24V motor that draws 40A at full throttle, does each 12V battery deliver 20A or 40A to the motor in this mode?

[@GoldenChannels]

When batteries are connected in series like you describe, each battery delivers 40A, assuming both batteries are healthy.

[@GoldenChannels]

@Jean-Pierre Abello Good question. If you have one battery that cannot keep up, generally the voltage across both will drop, since they are in series. Since the trolling motor requires power (volts x amps) to maintain speed, it will pull more current, which drops the voltage lower again. This causes the healthy battery to work even harder. After an outing, if you turn your trolling motor off for a half hour or so, then measure each battery with a volt meter, the reading should be close to identical for both batteries. Hope this helps.

[@GoldenChannels]

@Jean-Pierre Abello That will give you a good idea of how much current is being pulled by the motor. Exactly what problem are you trying to fix?

[@WolfKillerLestat]

Could you tell me what would last longer 24V50ah Lithium battery or two 12v 120ah battery's

[@GoldenChannels]

James, in order to be accurate, it would be good to know what trolling motor we're talking about...

[@WolfKillerLestat]

@@GoldenChannels minn kota riptide terrova 24v

[@GoldenChannels]

@@WolfKillerLestat Quick answer is you should get about twice as long with the two 120Ah 12V batteries, maybe more, than the lithium. Assuming weight isn't an issue, the 120 ah wired for 24V would be longer lasting.

[@WolfKillerLestat]

@@GoldenChannels yeah I think the weight might be a issue, the battery I was thinking of is a rebelcell 24v50 angling li-on battery it's supposed to be the same runtime as two 105ah battery's.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@WolfKillerLestat I looked at the manufacturers website, and I would expect that this battery would last around 2-3 hours at about half throttle for your trolling motor. Assuming you have overnight to charge it when you get back, and weight is an issue, it might be a good choice as long as you're happy with that run time.

[@Wayne-xy6yw]

I have a 55lb Neraus Motor running through a 60amp PWM that works fine. I have also connected two relays to enable a reversing function but over a period of time discovered the plastic relay holders and wring were not up to the task and started to overheat and distort. As a result I have now fitted ceramic relay holders and thicker wiring from the PWM to the relays. Im considering upgrading to a 24volt trolling Motor again from Neraus on Aliexpress and would run it through the same PWM. My question is what impact on Electricity flow do you think a PWM has ie Voltage drop at full throttle.? and as my reversing relay wiring is probably 10 gauge is this too detrimental to the whole system ? If so I can forgo the reversing function and run straight from the PWM to the Motor or use Anderson Connectors to connect and reconnect.the reversing function as needed.

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Wayne. First question: Are you using proper marine wire? This is the stuff with lots of small strands, and each one is tinned/silver? I don't have direct experience with your tolling motor. I had a look at one of their models on AliExpress. It seems straight forward enough. From your note, I assume the PWM controller is separate, but can you send me a picture of exactly how you have this hooked up?

[@Wayne-xy6yw]

@@GoldenChannels Thanks for the prompt reply Will send detailed setup information probably next week

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Wayne. I don't need anything fancy. If you want to just send it via PM, and a hand drawing, that's fine. I didn't mean to make it into a lot of work for you. I just need to see how things are connected. Cheers.

[@Wayne-xy6yw]

If I bypass the forward/reversing relays then I have 8 Gauge marine wiring running to a Negative Busbar and then to the 60 amp PWM www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/engines-motors/electric/listing-2842842566.htm?rsqid=f7b192d38ad64637a2c558528469e487-001 This has been used for 4 years mainly for positioning and jigging. and on the positive side 8 gauge running to a 60 amp fuse and then to the PWM From the PWM I have 8 gauge wire running approx 8 feet and then joining to the Neraus 55lb Leg wiring with Butt connectors www.aliexpress.com/item/32619599177.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.62f31fa1egZI9D&algo_pvid=9f5f8e4b-a75c-4129-95b3-a1bba426b969&algo_expid=9f5f8e4b-a75c-4129-95b3-a1bba426b969-28&btsid=0bb0624316046038859046339e0769&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ This leg I have mounted on my Yamaha 115hp outboard as an engine mounted motor. I can probably measure the voltage before and after the PWM next time Im out This has been working fine but when I added in the Relays it worked fine for a time then the existing wiring was not up to the task and overheated ,starting to smoke,and I understand why now thanks to your video “Why Bad Electrical Connections Catch Fire” The origiinal relays had a plastic holder but the replacements are ceramic but the wire size still looks too small www.aliexpress.com/item/4000794624036.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.50167203Qwzad7&algo_pvid=0e0af954-782a-469a-a899-2c64b9ade3bf&algo_expid=0e0af954-782a-469a-a899-2c64b9ade3bf-41&btsid=0bb0622d16046045518446695eada9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ The wiring in and out of the relay holders is restricted as to size unless I find a way to extend the connectors so obviously this is a bottleneck which I could bypass by using 50 amp Anderson Connectors andersonconnect.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36_71&zenid=et9ak3m6h6iue4geh3idk4ij65 and just connect when required for reversing as the current requirement would not be as great and needed as often. Again I can probably measure the voltage in and out of the relays next time I am out fishing. Do you have any suggestions ? and Im considering upgrading to 24 volt 86lb Neraus as I have a friend with a Minnkota 80lb who uses it for trolling and Im impressed with the power and runtime.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@Wayne-xy6yw Some ideas to help: I think your relay connections are just .25" quick connects. If you have some of these, try one and if it fits securely, you could get a few that can take an 8 AWG wire. You might want to check if the relay's contacts have corroded by checking the resistance between the ON connections with the relay activated. If this connection has built up resistance through corrosion, the relay may fail. The relay appears to be sealed, but hard to tell. Usually electronics used in wet environments will have what is called conformal coating (looks like thin laquer) to protect the circuitry and traces. I can't tell if the PWM controller you are using has this, as well as the potentiometer is not sealed, so moisture will get inside of it eventually create problems. Sealed potentiometers look something lie this: www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/bourns-inc/3590S-2-103L/1088586?Potentiometers%2C%20Variable%20Resistors&Shopping_Supplier_Bourns_0118_Co-op&productid=1088586&gclid=CjwKCAiA4o79BRBvEiwAjteoYLG758L6WsPn6mzW8xHOqpbndiIV5f7u_f_c1hKlME-BlZKmTd6mvBoCvdwQAvD_BwE Measuring PWM voltage is impossible with a voltmeter. You can tell what is going on with an oscilloscope, but most people overthink PWM. At the risk of telling you what you already know, PWM just quickly pulses the motor in an on/off/repeat quickly manner, and the speed the motor goes is pretty much set by how much the PWM says "on" versus "off". This is what is called Duty Cycle. When the PWM is in an "on" state, the motor is pulling the full current for that fraction of a second. If you are only on 10% of the time, or 90% of the time, the loss through the wiring is the same during that "on" period, but just not as noticeable since the motor isn't going as hard when at low speed. I see you have 8 feet of wire between the PWM and the motor. Did you also have about the same length from the battery to the PWM? Assuming even 5 or 6 feet, or 13 feet on both positive and negative, you voltage loss is 2/3V at 55A, or about 40W of power. When your motor is going full throttle, it should be using about 660W, so you're losing about 6% of your power through your wire. This is pretty reasonable. And that power loss will drop significantly if you go with a 24V motor. One last comment, and this is not meant to be a criticism, more of a bit of shared knowledge based on my electronics manufacturing background, to hopefully help with your future projects. This pertains to safety ratings. Some manufacturers (I'm not going to get political here) save money by not going through the testing procedures to meet well understood industry standards. An example would be power adapters, relays, etc. UL has a particular test method for ratings on relays. They are one of many industry bodies that put a rating and test method in place for many types of products. For example, this relay for a Raspberry Pi has a number of safety ratings from a number of international agencies: www.amazon.com/Tolako-Arduino-Indicator-Channel-Official/dp/B00VRUAHLE On my example rating, 3 independent testing labs have performed industry developed test to ensure this relay is safe and can handle the voltages and currents they tell you it can handle. In the old days, we used to buy stuff at a retail store, and when that retailer brought products into the country, a customs officer generally checked documentation showing correct certifications. Now, consumers are left a bit on their own. Each one of those safety markings costs the manufacturer a minimum of $10,000 and sometimes more, to submit the product for those safety tests. They're generally a mark of a better product. One thing I like about your setup, is you appear to have had good service out of the motor itself, correct?

[@curtadams3281]

Great information ! Thanks

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Curt. Thanks very much for your comment. Best of the season to you, and stay safe.

[@curtadams3281]

@@GoldenChannels , you're welcome. Same to you !

[@ericneering6357]

Would you be losing it because the heat because you’re not using a big enough wire

[@GoldenChannels]

Yes, the power loss "disappears" in heat. Larger wire does help, but not as much as higher voltage.

[@robertbennett6418]

What about charging. Been told the on a 24v sys with 2 12v batt in series they must be charged independently. Yes! No! ???

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Robert. It depends on the charger. If you have your trolling motor battery banks and trolling motor completely separate from all the rest of your electronics, and not connected to your engine charging circuit, and you are only charging from shore power, there are chargers that will charge two 12V batteries wired in series as a single 24V bank. Most of the trolling motor specific chargers tend to make you think of always using 12V batteries as separate charging "banks". So, if you have two 12V batteries for a 24V motor, they want to sell you a "2 bank charger". Assuming both your batteries are the same brand, age, and capacity/model, there is no reason a 24V charger designed for the battery chemistry you are using cannot charge both wired in series together. For example, if you have two 12V Series 27 AGM batteries wired in series, you can charge them with an AGM 24 V charger. At the end of the day, a 24V battery is electrically identical to two 12V batteries wired in series. There are simply twice as many cells put in series to get to the correct voltage.

[@robertbennett6418]

@@GoldenChannelsIm running 2 Everstart group 29DC Deep Cycle batteries in series. Same battery, same age, same CCA and isolated to trolling motor. Was planning to charge with 24v charger after a lake visit. Then meter each battery to see how they charged.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@robertbennett6418 That should be fine. After charging, if you let both batteries rest without the charger attached overnight, or at least for a few hours, if both batteries are healthy, they should be about the same voltage. This will usually be 12.6V, but can vary by battery manufacturer.

[@Inpreesme]

Thank you

[@GoldenChannels]

Kevin, very glad to help out. I appreciate the comment.

[@russellkamp8923]

Would a trolling motor circuit(wires from batteries to motor)need to be rewired going from a 12 volt motor to a 24 volt motor.

[@GoldenChannels]

Russell, you should check that the existing wires are large enough for the new motor. The manufacturers call this "rigging". Minnkota has a chart for this that is here: www.minnkotamotors.com/support/rigging Hope this helps. If you have further questions, I'm also hanging out at the group "Golden Channels" on Facebook, or you can post your question about specific motor size here.

[@russellkamp8923]

@@GoldenChannels thank you Sir.

[@GoldenChannels]

Any time, Russell! Take care.

[@codydavidson8315]

So what puts out more power 24 volt 350 watt motor or a 36 volt 350 watt motor?

[@GoldenChannels]

Hi Cody. With the same boat, lengths and AWG wiring, the 36 V motor would provide more push/pull in the water.

[@codydavidson8315]

@@GoldenChannels what if you power them with a 48 or 52 volt battery which one would put out more power?

[@codydavidson8315]

@@GoldenChannels thank you for the response I seen guys on KZbin take two 350 watt motors on a bike and claim they're getting 1800 watts of power out of them somehow do you know how to do that ?

[@GoldenChannels]

@@codydavidson8315 The best way to think about this, is that the higher the voltage used in any power distribution system, the less power loss that will result as a result of the resistance of the wiring. This is a universal rule, and it is why high voltage is used in the power grid. Does that make sense?

[@codydavidson8315]

@@GoldenChannels kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXm7gqVogrV9iZo

[@danielKravtsov]

When will see 55 to 70 lb/ft upgrade?

[@GoldenChannels]

Thanks for your comment. I guess I'm a bit behind. I hope to do this in the next month or so, but knowing someone is interested gets me more motivated.

[@Riddlemethisgaming]

I'm dumb so excuse me..I have a 30 thrust on my Jon boat with 1 battery and my new bass boat came with a 40 thrust 24v ...does that mean my 40 will be 2x as strong as the 30?

[@GoldenChannels]

It's a good question, and trolling motor thrust ratings are confusing. And, since I don't know exactly how both boats are wired, I can only give you guidelines that the 40 will provide about 25% more thrust power to the water. Thrust also does not translate directly into speed. Considering that your bass boat is probably fiberglass, and the Jon boat lighter aluminum, I suspect that your bass boat will most likely not be much faster at top speed than the Jon boat. Also, your Jon boat's trolling motor is probably also a tiller handle. So, there is less overall wiring in it. If you want to actually calculate the difference in how much power is lost in the wiring of both setups, we have a Trolling Motor Wire Calculator on our website that might be helpful: www.goldenchannels.com/electric-trolling-motor-power-loss-calculator/ Sorry that I couldn't give you more of a direct answer. At the end of the day, the most we can do is give you guidance on the best installation practices. There are so many combinations of trolling motors, voltages, and boats, that is is hard to understand what kind of outcome you will get until you actually try a setup out on the water on the particular boat.

[@Riddlemethisgaming]

@@GoldenChannels wow thank u for that awesome answer and link! Guess I'll find out in a few days when I get to take the new glass boat out for the first time 👍. Everyone was just telling me already that the 40 isn't gonna be enough for a bass boat.

[@GoldenChannels]

@@Riddlemethisgaming You're very welcome. Enjoy the new boat!

[@hillslide]

I took how many years of school and for some reason cannot seem to grasp what you are explaining

[@hillslide]

You are doing a great job explaining it's just that I do not know enough about amperage and voltage to follow along just wondering what kind battery to buy and trolling motor that will be best for overnight Expeditions into the Ten Thousand Islands on a 15 foot gheenoe

[@GoldenChannels]

@@hillslide Cool boat! Is yours the 15'6" classic? Are you going to use the electric trolling motor for the main motor?

[@DaveWatts_ejectamenta]

But won't the cables be sized appropriately for the voltage, so thicker cables for 12V. Then the voltage drop won't happen because the resistance is less for thicker cables.

[@GoldenChannels]

True/ Kind of... The issue is that a 60" shaft Powerdrive has about 110 feet of wire inside it. And that Minnkota internal wiring gets in the way no matter how much you spend on your wiring to the battery.

[@DaveWatts_ejectamenta]

​@@GoldenChannels Your talking about the wire inside the armature right? But isn't that also sized for 12v, otherwise it would overheat?

[@theideasman6018]

Can you run a 24v motor off 12v

[@GoldenChannels]

No, you can't. It will try to draw too much current, and will most likely damage the trolling motor. If you want to see how under voltage affects things like heat, see the other video I did on how bad connections cause fires, here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooHSq5iFrrWgr6s

[@mikamantynen2976]

"Motors run on power. They run on voltage and current and all that kind of stuff, but power is the important thing." Seems 24V has only advantages and regardless of the wiring details you always get N times more efficient package. Obviously most of us need 12V system in the boat, therefore you end up having 2 separate systems or spend money on system that deals with charging both systems appropriately. And what are these lead-acid batteries you talk about?

[@guitarstyles80]

How do you upgrade a 55lb to a 70lb?

[@GoldenChannels]

If you have a new version Powerdrive 55, it can be upgraded to a 24V 70 lb version by replacing about 5 parts. I know how, but haven't had the time to do a video on it. What model of 55 do you have?

[@guitarstyles80]

@@GoldenChannels a new riptide powerdrive 55 with spotlock. About a year old.

[@GoldenChannels]

Ronald, in looking at the service manuals for this motor, I'm about 95% certain your model could be upgraded to a 70 lb. Here are the parts involved. The armature and brushes, the main control board in the bottom of the motor, where it mounts to the boat, the little board that shows you how much battery you have left, and the sticker that says "70" instead of "55". With my boat, I can get just under 2 mph from my 55, and with another battery, and large cables, I'm right on the edge of just okay. The thing I don't like is what happens to your charging system when you have the 24v bank for house and the 12V for starting. Now there is more stuff you need to add if you want your engine charging the trolling motor battery. Have you given that thought?

[@edgarhorton6769]

I can't hear you you need to get a better sound system for your videos

[@goaheadmakeourdayscooterpe9644]

Next ...why 36V trolling motors are better than 24V.

[@GoldenChannels]

Lol... Sure, I'll add it to the ToDo list, but in general, same rules apply, but at a lower half as much again on power loss, and similar on additional run times on lead acid battery technology. Wiring can be way cheaper, with 8 AWG being very common. Good choice if you can swing it.