151 - Why Are We Here? with Erik Voorhees

✨ DEBRIEF | Unpacking the Episode:
shows.banklesshq.com/p/debrie...
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Erik Voorhees is a crypto veteran of veterans. He’s one of the greatest advocates of open and permissionless systems that we have in this space.
In this episode we talk about his legendary debate with SBF-this is the first time we’ve caught up with him since. What are his reflections now? We also dive into how this bull/bear cycle is similar and different from previous ones, how do we preserve crypto’s core principles, and most importantly-why are we here? Why crypto? Why now? Why stay?
Erik doesn’t waste a word in this episode. Happy New Year everyone. Let’s keep building.
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Topics Covered
0:00 Intro
6:17 Where Did Crypto Go Wrong?
8:43 Crypto Labels
12:30 Responsibility
14:26 Accountability
18:19 FTX Collapse From Erik’s POV
24:05 SBF’s Headspace
28:45 Potential Alternative Realities
30:50 SBF’s D.C. Relationship
34:47 Was this Cycle Unique?
38:58 Lessons From Past Cycles
43:36 Learning Through the Pain?
48:33 Why is Individual Empowerment Correct?
50:20 Coordination & Order
54:26 Power
1:02:22 The U.S. Constitution
1:07:13 Code Enforcement
1:08:07 Why Are We Here?
1:09:49 Baked-In Crypto Principles
1:13:03 Perserving Core Crypto Values
1:16:48 Is Erik Radical?
1:21:44 Will Crypto Ever Go Mainstream?
1:25:53 Cycle Common Denominators
1:28:19 Bear Market Advice
1:29:31 Erik’s Bull Market Forcast
1:32:00 Action Items & Disclaimers
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Resources:
SBF vs Erik Voorhees episode
• SBF vs. Erik Voorhees:...
A Response to SBF and Principled Crypto Regulation
www.moneyandstate.com/blog/re...
Sophistry and the Savior
www.moneyandstate.com/blog/so...
24 - Exploring the Frontier | Erik Voorhees
• 24 - Exploring the Fro...
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Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.
Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here:
www.bankless.com/disclosures

[@brianflaherty9023]

Every time I listen to Eric V., I become a bigger fan. I am so happy we have someone of his mindset and caliber to lead the space. Thanks Eric and thanks to Bankless for having him on.

[@pedros.1576]

The most solid OG purist and philosopher in crypto. Erik is SO well spoken and so knowledgeable of human behavior and monetary history. DOCTOR Vorhees, giving the masses a gut level lesson in coordination and "money" !!

[@droydi]

My wish for 2023 is to have a talk where we get Vitalik and Erik in the same pod for a couple of hours.

[@thurendous]

This guy is just so legit that I like him a lot.

[@mikhelBrown]

His name is Erik Voorhees not 'this guy' and he bought Bitcoin when it was trading around $5.

[@thorstenhellwig9794]

Nice piece! Thanks

[@simrans3675]

Bruh, no lovefest please

[@Pryupism]

That past interview with SBF and Erik was the first time I ever heard of Erik. I must say Erik enlightened me. I really hope that debate gets more views views and people learn what crypto is about.

[@MikeWoot65]

He beat him so bad at that debate homie got sent to jail

[@decentralizd]

Just goes to show noone does research in crypto any more :P

[@Cognition92]

K, not C. It is literally in the title. Erik Voorhees

[@opensourcedev22]

Eric has well thought out answers for even the most dubious questions.

[@Ralph_ETH]

No one has captured my attention like erik has since ive been in the space, very intelligent, well spoken and respectful man, great show lads 👏

[@sew11754]

Excellent show. Erik is truly a wise and kind person.

[@steviedsolve]

That Erik / SBF debate was a huge eye opener for me. Watching SBF squirm and twitch bothered me for days afterwards and was the single biggest reason I got my funds off FTX, as soon as I heard about the balance sheet. Thanks to Erik and you guys and also Ran at Crypto Banter for saving over a third of my life savings. You guys provide a great insight to the crypto industry. Actually I need to subscribe to premium as a thank you.

[@jayd6813]

Excellent - Eric is a much-needed voice. One of the few voices of reason while we were in the 2022 wilderness.

[@TheMajorpickle01]

You can always tell if someone is honest when you disagree with their political views but can understand their construction and understand the consistent motivation that drives them. Vorhees is one of those people

[@Vajrus]

What a banger to start new year 2023! Eric is the 🐐

[@chspkgray]

Ryan & David, I've been watching Bankless videos for a while now, and I appreciate you having Eric on, but as I've been watching this episode, I've been perturbed at how much time (I'm currently about halfway through the video, as I write this) you've spent speaking and asking about ~personalities~, about the characters and actors in crypto, especially the bad ones. I've never thought of you guys as noise, but this episode has me thinking that you're echoing it without realizing it. Perhaps it's hypocritical of me to try and share feedback (as I think Eric was right to suggest that you should not be too sensitive to criticism), however, what has been running through my head while watching this is that you have a brilliant and honorable guest before you---who I'm certain is just as itching to highlight the positives of the technology as he is capable of explaining how it works, or could work---and yet the majority of the talking has circled around He Who Shall Not be Named. As an aside, I imagine this crossed Eric's mind as well, given his early comments about highlighting what is virtuous, but he strikes me as far too respectful of you two to say as much. What makes you both potentially great interviewers is that you yourselves are not technological experts, meaning that if you were to take Eric's advice an focus on the technology, or even just the end-goal of banklessness and how we get THERE (rather than where we are now, which is what everyone and their mother talks about), it would allow experts like Eric to share his knowledge and passion, not the chaos and frustration of the crowd. You guys are going to make mistakes; all that matters is that you keep your eyes on the 'The Good', because 'The Good' is all that matters. Matthew 6:23. People inevitably end up in the direction of where they look. Keep up the good work, God bless you both.

[@simrans3675]

Brah - you the pope now or what? Who dis yo?

[@arzach_0x]

Erik is a legend. Please provide transcripts on your videos!

[@chaotic_coder]

Another fantastic interview with Erik

[@yoyoitsme]

extremly happy to know that we got Erik around. keep building folks

[@Midg-td3ty]

Damn he is in it for the same reason I am. Seperating money and state is going to improve human society on every level.

[@devtonite]

Man! WELL FKING SAID. Just that first sentence is a perfect reason for the importance of crypto. The separation of money and state.

[@gsloberg]

Loved it. Wish all my family and friends would watch this discussion.

[@beat5341]

Theres not a channel born from its mother that can beat Bankless for genuine crypto content with consistently excellent guests, questions and answers

[@cryptopunk5696]

This was one of the best shows and debates that I have ever seen. I have to watch this a few times to fully understand everything

[@simrans3675]

Scammer

[@mattsjoelfernandes9132]

Finding Bankless was a positive of 2022 for me. I look forward to 2023 with the Bankless duo and their amazing guests. ❤

[@stacknsat]

Don't follow any of there affiliate links

[@alexpeyton74]

Potential investors/inspiring traders don’t grasp the psychological aspects of placing trades, some of these strategies take years to develop and apply. I just turned profitable the last few months or so, and the best advice I can share is that guided investments do bring about consistent ROIs I now know for a fact...Big regards to Christopher Neal Yandell for helping me earn over 9btc from day tradng with his siignals and insights

[@johannjacildo3576]

I'm interested how may i reach him?

[@alexpeyton74]

Just look his name up, you will get to his page, there you can leave your messages

[@sidinhasol]

This is exactly what Big time investors are talking about. The key thing here is to always trade with a good strategy even if the price goes up or down., . . .

[@carl9826]

Outstanding interview gentlemen! A true classic!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👌🏼💚

[@guhlobtrekker]

Jam packed with Taoist principles. Always a pleasure and lots of clip sharing when Voorhees speaks

[@pnamie3712]

I love how Eric says "rational thinking" is considered radical in today's world. That being the case, he's radical. Haha, awesome observation.

[@_Pickle_Rick_]

Great interview! Such an amazing speaker with important points, as always

[@swylie2010]

I love Eric's thinking, and certainly this technology offers opportunities civilization has not had before. However, I think pragmatically there is a long long long way to go. But I do love the dream! I just recommend anyone consuming it think a bit more and not get too upset when it doesn't happen in your lifetime. On the other hand, we could start a city and demonstrate how it goes...

[@jd87a]

The only thing that stood out to me as obviously wrong was calling people's desire to appeal to government for help as a "psychological sickness". Whether or not it's a good or bad thing, as Erik says, coordination, collaboration, and order are important.

[@Ripley-wp7he]

Erik Always grounded and profound

[@libertel5084]

thanks for the interview- dig in into the revolution!

[@osothwilliams]

Love me some Erik. Great great show, guys!

[@marksanji]

Because of the live Erik/ SBF debate I did remove myself from FTX and realized SBF and his persona wasn't for me. So thank you! "You know."

[@denisep9497]

What a freaking great episode. Jeez. Thanks guys for reminding me I’m not alone in my reasoning for being in the space. I’ve always loved your channel and as it has matured I just love it more!!!

[@jmack3019]

Sad that SBF was spokesperson for crypto in Congress. Instead of Erik Voorhees who should have represented the industry and the individual

[@sophieamat9467]

I’ve supported your show for a long time. Keep building your media brand in 2023! 🎉all the best Ryan and David. Eric is a great thinker, builder and influencer in the space.

[@eddyfreddy4277]

The new label we use to differentiate ourselves from centralizzed grifters should be trustless crypto. Trustless is the only unique feature of crypto yet many miss the point.

[@IncandescentLightbulb00]

Eric is the og with solid morals and it’s an absolute pleasure to listen to him. One of the reasons I never used FTX was because first time I really heard about people being excited about it was when they got that FTX arena sponsorship. I just internally rolled my eyes and decided to stay away. These types of puff pieces are also what really speaks to the character of people who engage in them and what they deem as important.

[@erikdeca]

My only issue with this is that I can only give a single 👍 . Erik Voorhees is incredibly admirable.

[@erikdeca]

@P!nned By Bankless Shows... Scammer!

[@stackinmycoins5126]

The year just started and this is the BEST VID OF THE YEAR! ... not so much the hosts

[@Fabsrab]

Great podcast. Thank you!

[@oxa01]

What a great interview! So refreshing to revisit the principles for we stand for.

[@DCPPC92]

Great show. Always a clear mind. Thank you Erik Voorhees.

[@grantwalkersound]

To add onto the constitution point. The sentiment of it was correct. The concept of being able to upgrade it was far ahead of its time. Its main limitation was technological. The only reason the founding fathers (and even back with the Greeks) settled on a representative government is because there was no technology that allowed for direct democracy at that point in time. We are past that now. The beauty of blockchain is that it allows for direct democracies to occur. Truly one person, one vote. Individuals could propose, amend, and vote on legislation, regulations, etc.... and it could scale as small or large as you wanted. It's pretty remarkable the potential.

[@fransua373]

Such a grait episode, thank you guys

[@paxmarc1673]

Incredible show, I just started my journey in crypto and Erik is by far the most knowledgeable and articulate person I've heard so far

[@lovinglife1984]

Thanks bring Eric back!! He is so sharp and straight shooter! I appreciate people like him keeping it real!

[@simrans3675]

Bruh......please

[@kezangly]

Such a great conversation, Thanks for for this:-)

[@thiagocrypto]

THIS WAS A GREAT EPISODE, ERIK IS A BEAST 🔥🔥🔥

[@JimmyCall]

There was a lot of talk around Alameda/FTX and Terra/Luna collapse. People were hating on them for the rumours they shorted it. Others suspected FTX group was also manipulating the markets. Therefore there were warning signs that FTX was too big for its own good, but to translate that to corruption of customer funds, is inside information of the time

[@mrbojangles7504]

That whole sequence of events after the last interview was unbelievable. Keep up the good work

[@simrans3675]

Why you so glad bruh?

[@mrbojangles7504]

@@simrans3675 Poor word choice, sorry if you took a hit

[@simrans3675]

@@mrbojangles7504 Man, I was just trolling you for fun and you turned out to be quite the gentleman. All good my man and appreciate your kind note :-).

[@mrbojangles7504]

@@simrans3675 No problem man. Best of luck

[@bluepunkrocker]

New to this channel, great outlook & view points! WAGMI & HODL

[@harrywrey215]

Great show guys, as usual. Love Eric!

[@davycrockett8886]

Separate church ( spirituality, education), state ( law and order) and economy (money). This helps in many ways.

[@bjb9467]

Erik could be one of those anonymous members from the original Satoshi gang, it seems he has solid connection to universal wisdom from a higher dimension

[@cryptochik7573]

Always ❤Erik. His wisdom is profound.

[@D00FY]

You guys represent us. We don't have a platform like you. Stop the self flagellating "where did we go wrong". All you have to do is move on and focus on positive things. You are more powerful than you realize. The bull market starts with YOU.

[@simrans3675]

Yo, is doofy like dufus?

[@D00FY]

@@simrans3675 Yeah brother

[@simrans3675]

@@D00FY Damn, you didn't let me troll you 😂. Doofy the Goofy!

[@acpjr]

Thank you David for recognizing at least some responsibility that Bankless had in perhaps drawing attention to some of the worst elements in the industry where people were harmed financially. Erik's response to your sentiments reminded me that he's definitely a hardcore libertarian anarcho-capitalist. On the Unchained podcast with Laura Shinn, Erik was on a panel not long after the LUNA/UST collapse and one of the other guests actually *called him out* for hyping the Terra Luna ecosystem, and Erik didn't even flinch! He's definitely a "personal responsibility" maximalist. At least Bankless recognizes it's influence! Speaking of what to do going forward, Bankless could do a better job of highlighting projects and guests outside of North America where governments are weaker and the contrast between the local fiat and cryptocurrency can put crypto values in to much sharper focus.

[@Matt_NL]

Erik is the best!

[@genxnewb]

Thank you so much you guys are awesome

[@lherfel]

thanks great episode hopefully we achieve more separation of Money from Government

[@xsilentxhawkx2383]

That intro!! 🔥🔥🔥

[@grantwalkersound]

To offer an answer to what Eric calls a sickness regarding people wanting to give government bigger budget to solve problems. It's not a sickness in the people, it's that people don't see a good alternative. Currently people believe they have a toxic duality choice... Government or Corporations. Public or Private. For any given problem, this is the path to solution presented to the people. The problem is that Corporations are equally corrupt (if not more) than Government. So I'd argue that those believing in the markets to solve issues are equally as foolish. DAO's present a new path forward, but it's a new technology and the public is unaware of their existence. However I wouldn't blame people for choosing the government over corporations, because at least there is slightly more scrutiny, transparency, and accountability in government... Not by much, but there is. So I don't think anyone who believes in Social programs to solve problems are stupid or sick, because choosing a corporation to do it has the same exact flaws. The problem in all of those cases is incentives. It's not actually in a corporations financial interest to solve problems. It's in a corporations financial interest to extract maximum value out of its customers. It's not in a politicians interest to solve problems either. It's in a politicians financial interest to extract maximum value out of donors. This is where DAO's kind of stand alone. They don't have to operate like a corporation or traditional government. They don't require the sole focus of making money for their shareholders. You could create a DAO with a specific purpose of cleaning up the environment, ending homelessness, etc... Additionally (if they're truly decentralized) they won't be susceptible to centralized corruption like government is.

[@mutantdog.]

Bit of a long post but some thoughts pertaining to SBF and the 'responsibilities' of platforming him or others like him. During 2020-21 the 'mainstream adoption' and 'institutions are coming' narratives were strong, in many respects SBF was a representation of that. To the extent that he was a figurehead for crypto it was more for the benefit of the outside world - politicians, trad-fi etc. Legacy media presented him as a leader and saviour but it never really seemed like that was how 'we' saw him (be that collectively or as individuals). Putting aside the whole fraud topic for now, the defi regulation debate was significant because for some time there had been a growing sentiment of distrust for SBF as a trad-fi guy and the possible confict of values that brings. This really was something that could have been addressed a lot earlier but iinstead it became the elephant in the room. Similar things could be said for other major 'figurehead' type characters that really didn't get anywhere near the sort of scrutiny they should have. The potential for Luna's collapse was quite obvious but anyone that pointed it out would just get accused of FUD. But things like this do need to be addressed, especially in podcasts with significant reach (by no means am i singling out Bankless here either, there are many other channels that this should apply to). While the btc maxis tend take it too far calling everything a scam, the xrp army see grand conspiracies everywhere, the majority of degens weren't nearly skeptical enough. Somewhere between these extremes is the sort of approach that is needed going forward.

[@nicosilva4750]

On SBF's mindset. It's important to understand the removal of competitors. If you remove competitors, their value can be used to shore up losses in your own enterprise. Look at how he bought up so many other crypto companies, after the Luna collapse. He set the stage to be the rescuer. Get the rules changed, and he becomes the favorite among Wall Street. Billions pour in, and he is rescued.

[@billo123456788]

When Erik speaks, everyone should listen

[@matthewcudmore7286]

We'll articulated, but dream on. Governments will never give up the control of money.

[@PankajKumar-te7vw]

Great 👍 Well done Eric 👏 ✔️

[@joeforeman3027]

Been following crypto since 2017. I would like to see a show focused on finding the difference between Voorhees and Hoskinson. I can’t find it. Also a show that distinguishes 1st principles thinking from fundamentalism (maxis of every stripe) is it math or religion?

[@stacknsat]

Eric is more likeable guy and also doesn't really have anything to "sell" u

[@JimmyCall]

Just embrace the term crypto else you'll just as much get tarnished on the next term. Very honourable the pursuit to bring the control of money to the people

[@HotCatShit]

Crypto is money/value system. Money is currently power in our system. Power invites very dangerous people.

[@yonisapir6270]

I think one of the biggest problems in this space is that people pretend there's a community when there really isn't. That false sense of community leads people to have a false sense of security. They assume that the "industry leaders" have their best interests at heart. There is so much ass kissing in this "community". The truth is that this is no different than the stock market. You're 100% on your own and if/when you lose money there won't be any "community" or "thought leaders" there to help you, and most (if not all) of these people - including Erik and CZ and the rest of the lot - will probably be corrupted at some point if they aren't already.

[@harmonysampson5311]

Reef chain is an EVM compatible blockchain for DeFi. It is fast, scalable, has low transaction costs and does no wasteful mining.

[@kingkrubb8880]

One of our finest

[@moebel303]

Obviously we are here because number go up.

[@Textras]

'Start Fresh' - Yes let's!

[@lna3494]

So I'll just go touch some grass! Thanks, you made me proud again to be in crypto

[@KyleSector]

Best guest ever 🎉

[@peter9910]

It's nice how egalitarian and philosophical some people get after they've made a killing in the space

[@ReneSalasDesign]

I'm really on the fence between centralized efforts steming from taxation (roads,fire departments, national parks) and the as of yet shown ability for any sort of dao to coordinate such efforts. I'd really like to see real world at scale coordination before going all in on decentralized public goods.

[@officialdropnation]

I went back and watched the interview of SAM and ERIK... i cant decide if SBF is A HERO or not.... pretty sure he did this all on purpose to accelerate REGULATION! ....

[@davycrockett8886]

Code can be law, but laws can be improved upon. Laws are sometimes adjusted.

[@TheJoshuamcgowan]

This time it’s different ❤

[@jamesreynolds6195]

Erik's' calm and principled approach reminds me of a Master Jedi. Truly a beacon (no pun) in the current sea of Crypto

[@icrucian]

Master Jedi perfect description!!!

[@guhlobtrekker]

"..recognize that you are in the middle of the revolution right now, bull or bear market..." -- Erik Voorhees

[@Toddis]

Correlation doesn't equal causation Banks being regulated isn't necessarily the reason they don't innovate, I think it's more that they haven't needed to, and crypto is going to force them to change or they'll lose market share and the shareholders will get angry

[@ig7567]

when was this recorded?

[@stugod1982]

You will have to get Tiffany Fong on for the next interview.

[@droydi]

Someone actually added those numbers, and tried to bring it to light through Bloomberg.

[@StarTreeNFT]

💚

[@raw-bot9251]

I love Erik's Shapeshift wallet and Fox Tokens. I feel he's the only guy who is sincere out there! My every spare dollar will go into FOX! Sometimes you just have to rely on human emotions and intutions

[@simrans3675]

Bruh Fox is another shit token. Watcha tokin bruh? Yo grow up yo

[@stacknsat]

I doubt it will moon but I got you

[@AlexlikesRamen]

truely is a top10 speaker

[@decentralizd]

Can we just replace every CEO in crypto with a clone of Voorhees?

[@starry1m]

The current debt / credit-based system is designed deliberately that way, THEY never meant to pay back the debts in full, instead, they have been merely acting in an illusive way that they care about the debt number. The world's dominant power is built upon such a system. The way out ?

[@simrans3675]

Healthy credit is what the world runs on and needs. Stop with these extreme takes and learn the history. of money and how finance systems were setup tested failed and reformed over the last 200 years and then open that hole bruh.

[@adamsmith4982]

I truly believe SBF only supported the regulation he tweeted as a means to get some regulation in place urgently. What’s the easiest way to plug a 10 billion hole? Institutional money and they need regulation. He was desperately trying to plug the whole. It wasn’t tactical against the crypto industry it was desperation.

[@fortun777]

@bankless, Not all the banks suck. Look at Revolut or N26 in Europe. Those are more of a fin techs, then real banks really, but again there's no difference to the end user. Pretty sure, there're great offerings in Asia as well. Maybe US banks suck badly, but it's not like that in the whole world. You guys just keep repeating that banks have bad UX, but that's not something crypto industry can rely on worldwide. So we still have to compete on values and product. Great episode, thanks so much, as always☺️🙏

[@janj7458]

Both of those definitely suck

[@CG-rx6pe]

I disagree with the concept of two types of power that Erik talked about. You can fire someone from their job and they can leave, but what if they show up the next day and say that they want to stay and you will continue paying them or they will hurt you? Then you will call the police, right? So all power ultimately resides in coercive force. Coercive force is centralized within the government, by consent of the people, so that we don't all have to have our own personal armies.

[@Ryan-xw5qb]

Erik speaks Truth.

[@simrans3675]

Bruh....please. Take it easy yo

[@Ryan-xw5qb]

@@simrans3675 lol why? I'm not saying everything he says is true, he just speaks in a truthful manner.

[@marginalgains8477]

Can you guys talk to the kadena team. Seems like they are solving some of the problems you talk about in this video.

[@ay-ay-non]

Erik is the GOAT