Exposing Pippin's BIGGEST Change for the Films

[@factorfantasyweekly]

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[@keithtorgersen9664]

“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

[@waynepurcell6058]

If you want to understand an introvert, Bilbo may have made the perfect statement. You love people but you still want them mostly to stay away so you can have piece, except for the ones you just consider pure oxygen wasters. Then it's que sera, sera.

[@georgeegerog4175]

I think in the books Bilbo gave the Sackville Baggins some silverware

[@dlevi67]

Teaspoons, with a card reading something like "To Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, to complete her collection" since Bilbo was always convinced that the S-B stole much of his silverware prior to his return home in 'The Hobbit'. (apologies if the quote above is incorrect; I'm going from memory) However, that was Bilbo's birthday gift to Lobelia; the S-B didn't inherit anything out of Bilbo's estate, which was left entirely to Frodo.

[@searing7549]

Nice video, but the waviness of the movie scenes is sickening.

[@broneetube]

I felt so nauseated I had to stop watching before the intro was over.

[@edils0]

It's such a shame they left out the gift giving, and how in Hobbit culture the person whose birthday it is gives gifts instead of receiving them. The whole point of the large party was so Bilbo could give away a lot of gifts, and hopefully this would make giving the ring to Frodo easier. Bilbo mentions it didn't help at all.

[@JulieShock]

I understand your point and have done hobbit birthdays as one of my live languages is giving gifts. I can understand how that wasn’t part of the driving plot to get the ring out of the shire

[@waynepurcell6058]

You miss a bit of it. I'm from a small country town and gifts are given (and recycled given) just for the thought, not because it's anything any good.

[@Stevie-L-n8g]

That was never intonated in the book! You made that up!

[@JulieShock]

@@Stevie-L-n8g and I quote chapter one “hobbits give presents to one another on their own birthday…. Actually in hobbiton and Bywater everyday in the year was someone’s birthday, so that every hobbit in those parts had a fair chance of at least one present at least once a week. But they never got tired of them.

[@erikpetersen-chinguacousys1943]

I feel seasick!

[@iasimov5960]

The biggest deviation between the book and the movie was Bilbo's disposal of the Ring. In the movie, he dumps it out of his palm. In the book, the Ring is in an envelope which he attempts to place on the mantlepiece but his hand involuntarily jerks back causing him to drop the envelope. Gandalf recovers the envelope and places it on the mantlepiece. No one who ever possessed the Ring parted with it voluntarily.

[@Son-of-Gondor]

Very nice. Also, I agree that the extended edition is the only acceptable version to watch.

[@michelleedwards1486]

Same here

[@nan7861]

Thinking ahead to when the hobbits fled the shire, it’s funny that book-Frodo was the oldest of the four hobbits at age 50 and book-Pippin was the youngest in his late 20s (his “tweens”), but movie-Frodo actor Elijah Wood was the youngest at age 19 while movie-Pippin actor Billy Boyd was the oldest at age 31.

[@12classics39]

A big change hardly anyone ever talks about - in the books, Sam and Rosie have been friends since childhood and are actually dating by the time Sam has to leave the Shire. Then later when he returns, Rosie reveals she somehow had a feeling, back in the spring (when the Ring was destroyed), that he was alive and would be coming back. All of this is so much deeper and more romantic than the shallow “hesitating to dance together” and “looks from across the bar” in the movies. You get the sense they’ve never even talked to each other and yet Sam wants to marry her? It’s almost creepy. But in the book, they know each other very well, and you get the sense that Rosie has always seen Sam’s greatness and loved him for it; he never needed to prove anything to her. When she hears of all the valiant things he did, it only confirms what she already knew was in him. Rosie is safety and comfort for Sam, someone familiar who feels like home to him. All that is totally lost in the movies, where she feels like yet another “scary and unknown” thing that Sam has to face by finally going up to her - which is ridiculous.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Great point!

[@stellviahohenheim]

Lol you try to slot in all of that story into the movie and try to not make it look stupid. Between Bilbo's party and frodo leaving there's a romcom happening in the middle

[@moon8568]

Wow! Thank you for sharing!

[@12classics39]

@@stellviahohenheim it wouldn’t have been that hard considering Rosie doesn’t appear in the books until after the hobbits return. So nothing would need to be slotted between the party and Frodo leaving.

[@eddthehead123]

I never thought Sam was trying to prove anything to Rosie. But rather, to himself. He had a bit of an inferiority complex at the start of the movies, which would probably account for why he never thought to try.

[@Eianluke13]

It would be good if you numbered your episodes since it’s a series and it’s nice to watch them in order. Good job otherwise.

[@lovelydaywithholly]

This is going to be an amazing ing video essay series, thank you for all of your hard work on this! The wavy screen is difficult to watch, however, and Tolkien is pronounced Toll-Keen as Tolkien himself has pointed out (not Toll-kin)

[@gohantanaka]

This video made me nauseous. Please remove the seasick filter.

[@marcuskiller02]

The old film effect you use in the video and the next one is very uncomfortable to watch Apart from that, love the videos! Keep it up

[@enma1219]

Another small change I didn't really like in the movie was that after Bilbo got home from the party Gandalf is there waiting for him, implying that Gandalf can somehow teleport. In the book, it says he came in through the door soon after. Oh and Frodo was also in on the joke of Bilbo disappearing so he shouldn't have looked shocked when Bilbo disappeared. Anyways, I'm liking what I'm seeing so far so you got yourself a nerd subscriber. 🤓

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Great points! Happy to have you on board 🫡

[@Quirderph]

I like the ”teleportation” scene on it’s own, but it would have worked better in another movie. (It also raises the question of why he never does that again.)

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Very true 🤔

[@stellviahohenheim]

It's not teleportation, Gandalf simply called the eagles to give him a ride from the party to bilbos house

[@Stevie-L-n8g]

I didn't like anything in the films. They changed it and the characters so much that the only thing they did get right was the names!

[@deanwagner518]

I think it's funny that neither the Jackson movies nor the bakshi movie has the Flash to disguise bilbos disappearance

[@raimat66]

Except Bakshi's film actually has it. Okay, it's not really a Flash. But a kind of ringing of bells is heard and sparks erupt around Bilbo's body. The ringing bells are also heard when Bilbo takes off the ring back home at Bag End. A similar sound and similar flashes are heard and seen when Frodo becomes invisible and visible again on The Prancing Pony, and it indicates that it would be a matter of some kind of side effect of the ring itself. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZDHqKOGrbqHl9k kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGOnpIOLmtWFfMk

[@101Waylander]

Loving this series, but please remove that horrible effect you have added to the film. It awful and distracting, almost sickening.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Im not going to remove it entirely, but based on other’s comments and yours, I removed the waviness of it. Which seems to be the main issue. All future videos won’t be wavy. 😂 Thanks for watching!

[@mrsamtheman80]

Technically, the Sackville-Bagginses were not left out of the will; they got silver spoons, as a token that Bilbo knew of their thievery (hinted at in the later-produced Hobbit movies, so you can forgive Jackson for leaving out mention here). Overall though, well done and you have another subscriber!

[@Seriously_Unserious]

For the timeline, I will point out there are crafty ways to portray the passage of time in a film, such as with scene transitions and have one scene be in the daytime, and another at night, having a brief timelaps of activities or other establishing shots and careful editing that can give the impression of time passing. These are easy to screw up though, so I'll give it a pass in this case. Still, one thing that Jackson could have done better is showing Mari and Pippen as intelligent, if a bit rambunctious and overly curious. Showing them not just randomly bump into Frodo and Sam while being dumb, but rather portray their encounter, while a surprise to the audience, as carefully planned, and that they'd figured out what Frodo, Sam and Galdulf were about, or at least enough of it to conspire to help Frodo, knowing Frodo would have refused their help if they'd given him a choice. That would still preserve the timeline of the film, but present the characters as smarter and more capable then the films show them as. Pippen and Mari could still provide comic relief, but from being smart and witty, rather then dumb and bumbling.

[@metallicaddictno1]

Regarding the "vision of the eye of sauron" I don't count that as a difference per se, because I think Peter Jackson uses that as a visual aid for us the audience. The same can be said for the scene with Saruman and the palantír.

[@almightycaboose8192]

Just finish the books while at work listen to the audio but dam the books were good and remembering the movie so much was change and left out that could of been way better done I love the movie for sure but man there could be so much more

[@mizurazu]

But look how long those movies are already. Making movies isn't cheap and you need to choose what gets left behind with such a massive project.

[@crazyviking24]

Also Bilbo makes a joke about him and Frodo equalling 1 gross and the guests realized that the number of guests allowed into the speech was 144 (1 gross).

[@raimat66]

The pavilion in which Bilbo holds the party and gives his speech is not by some willow tree behind Bag End. It's by the party tree, as you say, which is in front of and below the entrance to Bag End. In Tolkien's illustration of Hobbiton, the tree can be seen in the field below Bag End, just above Bagshot row. What kind of tree it is, is never mentioned. 144 special guests are invited to the pavilion. The rest of the guests are outside, even those in the field below Bag End, just like in the film. On the Tolkien Gateway the following reads: "The Party Tree may have been inspired by a willow hanging over the mill-pool at Sarehole." More than that we do not know about the nature of the tree.

[@jackpowell9276]

For me, this was all fine so far, except the flash, but perhaps introducing merry/pippin here before the 17 year skip is a bit off, or they could have kept them in but childish, then shown the time skip, with frodo (and the ring) no aging much and the others catching up. Again demonstrating twice the power the ring holds nice and early. Its from here out i think the hobbit companions are done dirty until rivendell. The entire escape from the shire is a whole movie.

[@Stevie-L-n8g]

See this is what i'm talking about! A Hobbit with a Glasgow(Scotland for all you Yanks, and I'm a quarter one) accent, as well as a Dwarf, Gimli!! You just can't credit it. What I don't understand is why Jackson made them do it because we know that both actors can do different accents from past films. I hate Jacksons versions, but one day someone will make a truer version where Elves are beautiful and Tom Bombadil is in it along with Goldberry the River Daughter.

[@raimat66]

What can also be mentioned is that Gandalf and Frodo's conversation in the carriage, which is a change, contains quite a few quotes and references to the opening texts of both The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. A neat way to transfer the text of the book to film dialogue. Overall, Peter Jackson is very skilled at picking up phrases from the books' texts and including them as small Easter eggs here and there in the films, not least certain Chapter names, including "A Long expected Party" and "A Short Cut to Mushrooms".

[@georgep7373]

The biggest change in my eyes is that in the book, Gandalf goes to the house after Bilbo's disappearance to find him there preparing to leave, while in the movie, Bilbo enters the house and Gandalf is already inside (which he couldn't have done since Gandalf was present at Bilbo's speech). So, in the movie Bilbo enters the house, takes off the ring and immediately Gandalf talks to him and asks him where he has put his ring (silly question since he took it off his finger and became visible 5 seconds earlier). Bilbo answers that it is in the envelope on the mantelpiece (in the book he actually put it there and then regretted it and took it back) but that makes no sense since he had put it in his pocket in front of the wizard... For me, this change hurts a lot the plot. Peter Jackson changed the plot keeping the original dialogues (to some extend) and making them pointless. Apart from that, great work on the first two episodes. I will definitely watch the other videos :)

[@ColemanMulkerin]

I don't remember half of the book details you point out and Ive read the books and listened to them a few times. But it's cool to nerd out as you say.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Don’t worry, for these videos I have to dive back in and remind myself of a lot of these small details! It’s fun to look into them again and remember the amount of detail Tolkien put into his work.

[@raimat66]

You now mention that Bilbo sings "The road goes ever on and on" in the end of the Hobbit. That's not true. The song "The road...", which both Bilbo and Frodo sing variations of in The Lord of the Rings, is similar to a song Bilbo sings at the end of The Hobbit. But it's not the same song. The song in the prequel begins with "Roads go ever ever on" and is otherwise quite different from the song in The Lord of the Rings.

[@alexnejako777]

they balanced the Shire scenes well in the movie.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Agreed!

[@nickfoster9350]

There are considerably more than sixteen changes to the movies, and not all of then are for the better.

[@RoboSteave]

Another great job. Just a couple of things. I meant to mention in the first episode that Gandalf calls Bilbo Frodo's uncle, but he is his cousin? Another thing, how does Gandalf get to the house before Bilbo in the movie? Does he have teleportation powers that are never used again?

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Yes, off the top of my head, I believe they’re cousins. But because of the age difference he calls him Uncle. I love to imagine Gandalf sitting there, and then as soon as the camera cuts off of him, he just absolutely sprints up to Bagend. 💀😂

[@mevb]

This might be mentioned in a future episode but Fatty Bolger at Bilbo's party, shaking hands with him. He's a lot older compared to the book in which he's around Frodo and Sam's age. He's played by Tom Walsh, the uncle of writer and producer Fran Walsh (who is also Peter Jackson's wife). During Gandalf's visit at Bilbo's, when the wizard says that Frodo suspects something, Bilbo replies "Of course he does! He's a Baggins, not some blockheaded Bricegirdle from Hardbottle." which refers to Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, who was the one knocking on the door and calls out for Bilbo. The reference about her being a Bricegirdle from Hardbottle is in The Return of the King novel where it mentions in the aftermath of The Scouring of The Shire after Sam restores the land by planting the mallorn seed and puts on speck of Galadriel's powder which makes all the trees grow very quickly, restoring The Shire to its formal glory (if not improved). The thing with Lobelia knocking on the door and Bilbo saying that the Sackvill-Baggins wants Bag End refers to the whole conflict between Bilbo and Frodo against Otho and Lobelia-Sackville Baggins who wanted to have Bag End but didn't get it due to Bilbo making Frodo his heir.

[@pinkfreud62]

Be amazing if they made all the movies exactly like the books even if they had to make way more movies, lol. I'd def watch every one!

[@silverletter4551]

It's not even that it's too long. It's not possible to film the books literally, because there's not enough dramatization.

[@jimmiller6704]

Age differences of the Hobbits are sacrilege. Bilbo should have appeared younger, the others as they should have been, to the point of them being ten or eleven.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

You think it genuinely would’ve made the films better if the four hobbits were 10 year olds? Or you think they should have incorporated the 17 year gap and shown them young at first and then older once Gandalf returns?

[@stellviahohenheim]

@@factorfantasyweekly That's how you get a Disney version of Lord of The Ring

[@bobthebomb1596]

@@factorfantasyweekly It would only have required a comment at their next meeting to explain that Gandalf had been away for 17 years to cover the gap and we do see Gandalf travel to Minas Tirith in search of knowledge..

[@robinkockovski2413]

Love this, watch the trilogy Every year but never read the books so Im learning so so much from this series, commenting and liking every video to help out and hopefully going all the way through all movies/ books

[@martinfvarela]

Fatty Bolger makes an appearance as well. He is mentioned by name when Bilbo greets him at the party. He becomes more important later in the books as you undoubtedly know, but people usually complain that he was left out of the films. Jackson was kind enough to give him a cameo.

[@benaiken935]

Nice videos. Ian Holm who played Bilbo was 68 years old during filming

[@Bethos1247-Arne]

I think this is the part were the movie writers took the most care. They retold the story to fit on the screen. The changes work as they are conistent within the movie-universe of LotR.

[@SuStel]

The party doesn't take place under the pavillion; the feast for special guests does.

[@justinholzkamper6404]

thanks for the work put into this

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Thanks for watching!

[@jassijoanna3466]

Been a while since I’ve read the books , but since I still watch the movies (extended of course!) at least once a year, I love to learn in detail what they changed and what was accurate. Keep up the great work! 😊

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Thank you! I need the encouragement for a series like this. Quite the adventure!

[@jassijoanna3466]

@@factorfantasyweekly well you got a new subscriber that’s looking forward to it :)

[@gandalf4751]

😍😍✅✅ Peter Jackson & Weta

[@beaugeta7289]

This is very well done!

[@DS-ue6ih]

Pippin being 11 makes me understand why he was so annoying, yet tolerated. Still hate him tho lol. Also.. Frodo should be imprisoned. Him and Gandalf are child war criminals.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

💀

[@adamzain6770]

If Pippin was 11 at the time of the party, he would have been about 28 when they set off, 17 years later. That’s probably equivalent to about 19 in human years; old enough to be in combat even now.

[@WilsonWatt-q2e]

There is nowhere in the books that addresses the age of either Merrie or Pippin.

[@beanburritoman3537]

The appendices literally tell you when they were born.

[@julieeverett7442]

actually, yes there is, not til the return of the king though, when Pippin became a guard of Gondor, he said he was :28 and still have a few years before i reach my majority" so at that time he was the equivalent of 16/17 not yet an adult

[@rooramblingon895]

I hate the films, with a passion. They are 1D awful representations of a wonderful story, with empty characters and mostly terrible actors.

[@jenniedarling3710]

Thank you I thought I was the only one who felt the films really misrepresented the books.

[@stellviahohenheim]

Yeah dude the movies are really trash, all the oscars it won was from Peter Jackson lobbying the juries. Most of the people who keeps rewatching the movies every year are tasteless and illiterate people

[@edithengel2284]

I believe it was Bilbo's 111th birthday rather than his 101st. (2:09) (Probably not the first to notice, but just in case.)