#175

[@luchador1764]

What's weird is how indignant these IBJJF style BJJ guys are about it when you get them with some shit that's illegal under their rules.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@luchador1764 yeah they get pretty upset. It's like it's somehow your problem they couldn't defend themselves 😂 🤷. I've seen similar hissy fits thrown in Basketball over small pushes and physical contact.

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

It’s the same as guillotine someone during boxing practice…. We do heel hooks in the gi, but don’t assume I’m going to be cool if you try a flying scissors takedown on me and your just a blue belt

[@Matt-jc2ml]

​@@paintpaintpaintco.6039 Thats a huge stretch. Your definitely one of the ones throwing a hissy fit. It would be more like a spinning backfist in boxing

[@socialgelo7719]

That's a good one. A backfist in general is illegal. Even in kickboxing. I still don't get how a spinning backfist is okay in kickboxing but a regular one is too dangerous.

[@Matt-jc2ml]

@@socialgelo7719 that's my point, it's illegal but its still similar to the techniques used. A guillotine in boxing however bears no resemblance to any technique legally used in boxing

[@gingercore69]

I went to a bjj gym that claimed to be for self defense, when i asked how to defend from punches they said "thats on the purple belt curriculum" I dont think i need to say anything else...

[@RicoMnc]

I trained to blue belt at a traditional, GJJ gym that included self defense curriculum from day one. In order to pass the blue belt test we had to demonstrate the expected level of competency and execution for both BJJ and self defense techniques and principles. Yes, this included defending punches and kicks. Sometimes we trained and drilled with one person wearing gloves and throwing punches while in our guard or mounting us. We had to respond and defend. Was I an MMA badass after this? No, but I think I had some legit skills to build on. Sometime after receiving blue belt some of us were subjected to a kind of gantlet where a sneaky purple belt would put on gloves and pick out random blue belts to start punching and we were expected to defend, close the distance, take them down and "submit" them. No, they did not go extremely hard, but I found it quite the challenge. He was significantly larger and stronger than me, I don't even remember how I took him down, but somehow I managed to do something that looked like BJJ and "submitted" him on the ground. I was exhausted, close to puking, and thought I was going to have to leave the class. I managed to catch my breath, relax, get some water and continue after a while. I know these schools are getting rarer now, but they do exist. I suspect that there are some TKD schools that do something similar. I don't know from any TKD experience myself, but I've met some TKD guys who were real deal, hard core fighters, and I've met some who got a black belt in 3 years at a strip mall school and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. I think even a sport oriented BJJ student with 3 years experience would be better than that.

[@gingercore69]

@@RicoMnc i actually got the gracie combatives 2.0 to train at home and its MUCH BETTER than what the program from the suposed self defense bjj gym i went to... But like... I dont have access to a good gracie jiujitsu gym arround, i only have access to 2 gyms and both are like i desceibed

[@socialgelo7719]

@@gingercore69 😆 yup. That pretty much summed it up. Thanks for checking out the show.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@RicoMnc that's pretty cool. I feel that at its core every martial arts program should be self defense first, sports focus second. Thanks for checking out the show.

[@chrisjackson8151]

@@gingercore69That’s kind of counterproductive. It’s like going to a boxing gym and asking them how to defend from double-leg takedowns or what to do if someone sits on top of you… Different gyms specialise in different things. You cant expect _every_ single gym to have everything, do you?

[@NXG_HQ]

Preface: I am a 6th Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo that has been involved in both the sport and related politics side for over 30 years now. Additionally, I am an active MMA Coach, and Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The parallel is completely there between Taekwondo and Judo / Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Originally, Taekwondo gained popularity through the creation of the first international federation (the International Taekwondo Federation), later the ITF left Korea and was truly autonomous so the government of Korea created their own "World Taekwondo Federation" and there was a lot of activity to gain members under the specific organizations as that would later determine who would receive recognition from the International Olympic Committee (IOC).. this is very similar to the name recognition between Judo and Jiu-Jitsu. Despite which organization won the IOC recognition, the name Taekwondo was now synonymous with an Olympic Sport. Knowing full well that few will ever become Olympic contenders and even with the knowledge that many schools did not have the accreditation necessary to gain access to the Olympic trial events, the name was great for marketing. To capitalize on the name recognition while maintaining members, the art become even more watered down for purposes of student retention, and of course the profit margins were increased by easier rank promotions combined with belt testing fees. Within about 3 decades Taekwondo transitioned through being a military fighting system, loosing much of it's combative nature with the rules implemented on the Olympic side, then additionally by those pushing the profit agenda in a capitalist society. Now it is the laughing stock of the martial arts world, full of 10 year old black belts. Fast forward to BJJ... Relatively unknown outside of Brazil, BJJ gained international traction in the late 90's through the UFC as a premier fighting art, and by the early 2000's it was internationally known. The IBJJF came on the scene in 2002 right as the UFC was becoming more mainstream and started positioning themselves as the "official" governing body of Jiu-Jitsu (much like the WTF did in Taekwondo). Fast forward to current day, and people still flock to BJJ because of it's combative application as seen in the UFC. However, the average student will now enter an academy where ZERO strikes are ever throws, they will learn guard as oppose to wrestle, or will simply never start standing. Each competition promotion has added more specific rules to "increase safety" and many academies are now providing time and attendance based promotions with some even charging for belt promotions. In the beginning Taekwondo looked like Kickboxing with some trips and throws, and BJJ was inseparable from MMA... Now neither art is practices (in mass) with any similarity to what it was in its first 30 years.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@NXG_HQ it's really good to have insight from someone directly involved. Thanks for breaking that down for everyone.

[@humzermuneer6030]

I think the moment a martial art goes from combat practicality to becoming just a game that art becomes useless

[@socialgelo7719]

@@humzermuneer6030 it's definitely an issue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

[@vik7368]

Not useless. Maybe not applicable as a general martial art. But bjj will have value for a long time as ultra specialised discipline in regards to guard game and submission. mma fighters can draw techniques from bjj they would otherwise not have time to develop because they need to focus on wrestling and striking as well.

[@bradanselment]

You've never been in a fight with someone who wrestled, I see. Grappling can look like a game when it's 2 practitioners on a mat. Put a trained grappler in a fight situation against a non grappler, watch what happens.

[@vik7368]

@bradanselment it really depends on a skill level of you and your opponent. A good striker with experience can defeat a hobbyist grappler. But if it's a regular person vs. a grappler, that dude is done. A simple double leg would probably finish the fight.

[@merkins87]

The crossover point for me is when coaches/competitions start rewarding manoeuvres, that would otherwise be detrimental to you in a fight.

[@mercercraft7224]

Long time Shotokan buy here. 3.25 years of recent BJJ training. I love the press testing every session of BJJ. Love it.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@mercercraft7224 definitely. You can't B.S. through a BJJ session. Thanks for checking out the show.

[@josephr2766]

I learned TKD 30 something years ago from Korean War veteran who was military police. We learned something completely different from what is seen today. No point sparing, it was more who got the best of the big clash. We would have to stay on a 4x4 or 2x2 mat, like stay in a porch without falling off or fight in a phone both with knees and elbows. Now I’m in bjj as the old guy blue belt. My gym does it all from bjj, MT kick boxing, and mma. Sometimes Im called to go to mma class because coach wants my size, weight, pressure so the mma students can try to escape bottom from a 210 pound guy not a 170. So here is my limited opinion on the subject. Firstly I occasionally do mma rounds and do a combat bjj class so love tap striking is ok and encouraged. But here is the thing, how do we test our bjj. We roll. We roll with other bjj students who know how to defend a scissor sweep or know how to not get caught in a triangle. So new fancy techniques get learned. Look at leg locks they were frowned on until someone decided to use them to gain an advantage against people who were wise to the kimura etc. As long as there is competition without strikes it will evolve even more within the rules. This is why we sit to guard and butt scoot. The rule says you can’t kick my face so we sit and avoid losing the take down and losing points. Now the opponent has to pass the guard risking the sweep or a leg entanglement. Today lots of people want to try bjj but don’t want to be hit,kicked, taken down (yeah industrial accident, my low back and hips are not so great). People want to have a fun hobby without too much risk. It’s not ideal but commitment to sport bjj is still better than a single self defense class with the perp in a big red nerf suit that’s doesn’t resist the self defense technique.

[@socialgelo7719]

Yeah I've heard this from a lot of old school TKD guys. Even Joe Rogen says that the TKD he did was more full contact and they were taught to kick hard. Not this flashy quick pull back stuff for a quick point.

[@joshuawilliams1893]

I go to a Gracie Humaita School. My coach is a MMA guy and a lot of us also train Muay Thai. We tend to act like we are hitting each other during the round. Just to keep that thought about us. It has helped me a lot in understanding both sides of it. I love the sport BJJ but boy do I like the thought of understanding what to do if I am put down.

[@vik7368]

Omg. You sound just like some kugfu guys used to talk about 15 years ago when there was still doubt about them being real martial artists. This trend is alarming. I mean no offense, I do bjj myself and I can see it being watered down more and more.

[@joshuawilliams1893]

​@vik7368 happy for you.

[@vik7368]

@joshuawilliams1893 if you have nothing to say why bother replying at all

[@joshuawilliams1893]

@vik7368 there is no reason to fight with you. You're some stranger in the internet and you are allowed to have your own opinion. I had a long rebuttal written out but decided to delete it and move on. It isn't worth it to me.

[@vik7368]

@@joshuawilliams1893 and yet you couldn't keep yourself from writing SOMETHING.

[@bluesman4208]

It’s weird because Judo is going through a kind of Rebirth now after being sporterized for so long. Some schools are running self defense and trying to actually make the Kodokan “MMA ready”. Now BJJ is feeling that same growing pain without the Olympic presence.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@bluesman4208 that is an interesting break through. I feel BJJ has brought more public interest to the grappling arts in general.

[@JKDVIPER]

Yes. Too many people think they know it now. Because we found wrestling useful a long time ago. We found submissions super useful. But.. I found too many martial artists were obsessed with fighting. It was too confusing trying to be honest with everybody about where they were without full intensity fights to back it up. Live sparring, boxing, kickboxing. That’s good exercise, it definitely makes a sporty guy or gal out of it. But I saw guys who thought they were top guy or gal in the room, because they could win in the gym, fall short under real stress. Even me... not a good competitor. Too in my head. But on the street, I had victories when there was no choice. So... idk. Just my experience with grappling and street safety/competition fights. 😉🙏💯

[@socialgelo7719]

@@JKDVIPER definitely. Everyone is a "professor " now 😆

[@nicholasnj3778]

if the Guy popped his knee for NOT TAPPING, its his fault

[@socialgelo7719]

@@nicholasnj3778 it should be. I just hate seriously injuring someone just to prove a point during practice. Thanks for checking out the show. 💯

[@ItsOnPaper]

Both parties are at fault

[@msifu81h43]

After the first UFC we wanted learned Jiu jitsu to fight / defend ourselfs in the street ..I love JJ , but it has gotten why off track from self defense

[@socialgelo7719]

@@msifu81h43 it's definitely not the same BJJ that was showcased in UFC 1. In defense everyone doing MMA studies BJJ. But not everyone doing BJJ studies MMA..

[@outlawz3068]

BJJ started in 1925 by Carlos but comes from Judo and Jit-Jitsu. Taekwondo became an official style in 1955 by General Choi Hong but elements of Taekwondo existed in 1700's and 1800's.

[@socialgelo7719]

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that here.

[@kajukine]

Great episode again brah I saw sport start to ruin Kaju as well, why I stopped going to tournaments and went back to our roots Defense!!

[@socialgelo7719]

@@kajukine right. Not your first rodeo. Thanks for supporting the show brotha 🙏🏾 💯

[@williamsontrent2381]

Good content. I would like to see your prospective on Catch as Catch can wrestling/ catch wrestling. I myself am a Catch Wrestler, Judoka and Juijiteiro. Keep up the good work

[@obrienortega6942]

I would say BJJ is becoming like TKD in terms of belts. I noticed a lot BJJ schools are giving out belts like candy. No different from Karate.

[@socialgelo7719]

Yeah. It's a problem.

[@Lexthebarbarian]

I have stopped practicing bjj. I find it so boring. Everything is just new and new all the time. New guard techniques, new guard passes with various new flashy names. We hardly practice submissions. People get new belts but barely know basic technique but they know everything new. There are lots of basic techniques that you have to master before getting a new belt. Self defense and being able to handle bigger and stronger opponents which is the purpose of bjj is completely gone. It's all just sports bjj. I've tried to get motivated but just get disappointed every time I get on the mat. Maybe I'm picky and whiny. I don't have a problem with sport bjj and development, I have a problem when it's the only thing practiced at every single club.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@Lexthebarbarian that's a legitimate issue. My biggest obstacle is coaching MMA and having strictly Gi sports jiu-jitsu black belts challenging me and I conform to their rules but when I ask them to do No Gi (not even MMA) they don't want to. I'm not a stylist. But I'm surrounded by stylists stuck in their boxes.

[@watermelontreeofknowledge8682]

Almost 10 years of BJJ, 5 years wrestling, and 3 years of MMA, here. Sounds like you need a better gym or quit complaining. I go to a very competitive gym and don’t have these problems. Sport BJJ is more self-defense than ever. What do you want? Are you looking for some kind of bullshit Krav Maga self defense systems? Are you bored by new techniques because you’re not good? I’m asking tough questions because you seem like you need to ask them of yourself.

[@MatthewMessmer-me5ji]

I find it odd to say "every single club." My school has wrestling classes and every BJJ class begins with takedowns. My last school did a lot of standup also. Sport BJJ does a lot of this, and, as a result, most sport jiu jitsu fighters can maul the average person, regardless of size.

[@PACBLUEBELT1973]

Geez, that's too bad, I've been training BJJ for 15 years and have never become bored. I'm definitely a basics type of player, sweep to get to top and pressure. I feel that this never goes out of style. Self defense has a lot to do with situational awareness. No matter what you train, if someone has a weapon or multiple companions you are in a bad spot.

[@PACBLUEBELT1973]

@@watermelontreeofknowledge8682 , Exactly!!! Great comment.

[@TheRealKRUE]

There's WTF and ITF taekwondo. Karate doesn't allow KOs, Tkd does. ITF allows head punches WTF does not, both allow knockouts. Taekwondo also dates back hundreds of years. All records were destroyed with the Japanese occupation which is where forms come in.

[@socialgelo7719]

It really depends on the tournament. But that's a great point.

[@ll2nycell]

I do muay thai n bjj for self defense...but a sport bjj guy will still f u up if he's really good

[@socialgelo7719]

That's true. If someone doesn't know any grappling it's gonna be a challenge.

[@barcelona19812122]

Most americans are turning jiujitsu into it , everyone wants to level up on belts but dont put the time in and then to keep them happy alot of black belt american professor give them stripes and belts i see it all the time

[@socialgelo7719]

@@barcelona19812122 that's a really good take on it. Thanks for sharing that here.

[@barcelona19812122]

@socialgelo7719 I'm a purple belt 7 yrs as a practitioner and I have competed more than a handful, my kids also compete they train at Atos hq In San Diego we have been in the game almost 11 yrs now, keep up the good work with your channel

[@barcelona19812122]

@socialgelo7719 my kids started martial arts in Tijuana Mexico and it was full contact when they where 8 and 4 yrs old of course they had their safety gear but it was contact tae Kwon do

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

Where are these soft schools? Name them

[@JLJE54]

Sedz

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

Why don’t y’all train MMA?

[@sirpibble]

BJJ is on the way out, period Most people are not interested in BJJ per se, people just want to learn how to grappleand the boone BJJ has recieved is its the most accessible way for adults to do that. And we've all seen it where someone comes in wanting to learn submissions, and how to wrestle, maybe try out mma And the instructor has to do a whole bunch of mental gymnastics to convince them why they need to wear a gi and how it's fundamental and "makes your nogi better" (whut) BJJ is trying really hard to justify its existence in an environment where people don't really want to learn it And to further prove that point just look at all of these other competitive organizations that are popping up, ADCC has been around for a long time, but you have EBI, CJJ, WNO, Quintet, CJI None of these are BJJ organizations, none of them use a gi, theyre just generic homogenized nogi submission grappling And now even the IBJJF has been changing their rules to capture the nogi trends. But BJJ isnt the cutting edge anymore, its on its back foot trying to play catch up and stay relevant. If BJJ wants to survive the next decade it needs to ditch the pajamas and leave them to judo which is objectively a better sport, and switch 100% over to nogi ADCC grappling and MMA

[@chrisjackson8151]

Pajamas or no pajamas…just go find a gym that meets your needs. You’re getting mad at BJJ just because some gyms dont train in pajamas 😂 that’s what your entire essay is all about. if you dont like it, then dont attend such a gym. By the way, there is newaza in judo, which is essentially where bjj comes from. Are you going to tell the judoka to ditch the pajamas in newaza? Might as well tell judo dojos to do no-gi judo.

[@socialgelo7719]

@chrisjackson8151 I actually do both. I think people here are just wondering why a style based on a platform for MMA is having these issues?

[@socialgelo7719]

That's a good point. Maybe that's why they're upset. They wanted to showcase BJJ but they never really wanted to do MMA in the first place. It was a marketing move. I've heard a lot of Gi BJJ players say they have no interest in MMA.

[@Ginga6]

GJJ/BJJ was developed in Vale Tudo matches and its debut in UFC was not its introduction to MMA, it was incubated in MMA for decades before UFC. If it’s getting away from that now it’s pretty simple, because IBJFF came around to be an analog to the Kodokan for Judo and with that comes a rule set. Rule sets constrain the art to certain techniques. Now the sport is evolving within those rule sets (IBJJF or ADCC/catch wrestling) and we get “martial” arts not designed to answer striking/self-defense. Not a big mystery.

[@JEFFMAN90]

​​@@chrisjackson8151 lol exactly 😂. He needs to train at 10th planet tbh

[@brandonh4527]

I have been saying for years now, Modern BJJ is going through a 'Karatefication' where Karate, TKD and other arts have been so watered down and transitioned to martial sports. They are largely no longer martial arts. You can certainly bring them back to their original design and make them effective again, but it is hard to find a school that actually teaches the system as it was originally designed because there is a lot more money in sports and competition. The watering down of it is why I got out after reaching 2nd degree black belt. It went from an effective system to people expecting MMA rule sets, then to competition rule sets. I have now been out of BJJ for well over a decade at this point and am very glad I did that so I can pursue what martial arts truly is. I believe changing the system to making it a sport bastardizes the art and there is no need for it. Eventually BJJ will also suffer from large negative publicity like Karate and TKD does now. If your martial arts system is not training for what martial arts was created for (self defense), then you are doing a martial sport. Nothing necessarily wrong with training for a little sport and fun, but the high percentage, majority of your training should be in martial warfare for self defense.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@brandonh4527 those are all really good points. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one mullying these thoughts around. Thanks for checking out the show.

[@bigdopamine9343]

No.

[@socialgelo7719]

@@bigdopamine9343 thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@bryanjohnson8162]

The biggest problem I feel is that like taekwondo has BJJ's going to become more sport-oriented and we're going to fall away from the fact that it's meant for self-defense and fighting....😢😢 It's already affecting my BJJ training now they include so much more wrestling and stand up and it's like I don't want to be a wrestler I got into BJJ and I'm 40 years old and I don't want somebody spearing me in the chest or smashing their face into my face but it's frowned upon not to like stand up and/or wrestle😢😢

[@socialgelo7719]

@@bryanjohnson8162 on one hand I'm happy BJJ has set a precedent for the importance of grappling. On the other without striking or defending striking its creating holes. You made some really good points. Thanks for checking out the show.

[@watermelontreeofknowledge8682]

Wrestling is the primary skill for self defense. Sport BJJ has never been so aligned with self-defense because the meta for BJJ these days is get on top, stay on top. If your BJJ gym isn’t doing this, you should go find a new BJJ gym.

[@bryanjohnson8162]

@@watermelontreeofknowledge8682 disagree some muay Thai for stand up some judo for takedowns since jujitsu for ground game wrestling is not primary nor necessary but is definitely a great grappling skill and a great starting skill for MMA and grappling in general but again not primary

[@Ginga6]

Both Kano and the Gracies studied wrestling. It’s fundamental.

[@bryanjohnson8162]

@@Ginga6 oh okay so because someone studied it it makes it fundamental I get you 🥴🥴 You need stand up grappling and ground and there are lots of ways to get those and there are lots of things that cover those options there's no for sure fundamental as long as you cover those areas

[@FBAMaroon]

Gi bjj is

[@JEFFMAN90]

No Gi is filled with butt scooters