1844 Made Simple

1844 Made Simple by Amazing Facts Doug Batchelor

[@July-A7]

It may be made simple, but it cannot be made right. 1844: Wrong date - Wrong event. Nothing happened in 1844 that is predicted in the Bible. All prophesies concern events that happen on the earth, not in Heaven. There is little point in God giving us a prophesy about something that will happen in heaven . It's none of our business. Jesus Christ went into the Most Holy place after His resurrection and ascension. He did not have to wait for the Adventist to tell Him what to do in 1844. Paul in Hebrews clearly states that Jesus went into the Most Holy place. The only book in the New Testament that talks about the services at Yom Kipur. The Old Testament temple services were an illustration of what was happening in the heavenly temple. The Day of Atonement was when Christ was crucified. He tore the veil that shielded the glory of God from our views. He went into the Most Holy place on our behalf and we entered with Him in the presence of the Father. We are no longer enemies of God, but saved through the blood of Jesus Christ and living in the presence of God Almighty. God bless!

[@MichiMind]

For strength Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f

[@jayceejm]

Now if we are taking about a SIMPLE explanation of Biblical truth this is what it looks like. Thank you @JJ SS One of the most telling signs that something is wrong with the Inv Judgment is the LABORIOUS effort that it takes to explain it. God doesn't work like that. Truth not that hard to come by.

[@Christopher-sl9ev]

Ameeeeeen! Well said and what you spoke about is biblical! The "investigative judgement" doctrine cannot be found anywhere in scripture. Also, when we believe that the ATONEMENT WAS NOT COMPLETE ON THE CROSS, THAT IS A HUGE SLAP ACROSS JESUS'S FACE! MERCY!!!

[@July-A7]

@@Christopher-sl9ev indeed, it's a blasphemy to deny full credit to what Christ accomplished at the Cross. SDA claim that the Cross was just the altar. Only a small part, there was much more to follow. Don't listen to them or anyone else. The Bible is clear.

[@Christopher-sl9ev]

@@July-A7 I have been an SDA for over 15years and it was during the pandemic He lead me to study the Bible. It is almost 2 months now since I have made the decision to leave after He revealed to me the many errors they teach. SDA'S also believe that they are the remnant with the Spirit Of Prophecy (EGW WRITINGS), and basically if you're not apart of them, it will be almost impossible to be saved. BLASPHEMY!!! I am so happy that God has been showing me truth like never before and I NO LONGER study the Bible through the Lens of the SDA Church. Amen

[@NorCalGospelHerald]

Nothing happened in 1844. The fact that Jesus Christ never returned in 1844 made Millerites look dumb, so they went into philosophical speculation and decided that Jesus Christ went into the most holy of holies on that year. The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ entered the holy place once by His blood (Hebrews 9:12). That verse alone destroys the 1844 sanctuary philosophy.

[@MichiMind]

www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f. This is the actual event

[@lutherb2954]

POP QUIZ: 1- What happened when the veil was rent? 2- What was “within” the veil? 3- what was “without” the veil? 4- when Christ died, how many years were left until the Atonement for sin would be made??? Answers: 1- Hebrews 9:24, Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 6:19,20; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 9:3; Luke 23:45; Mark 15:38; Matthew 27:51 Final Exam. One question: what happened in 1844?

[@josephgallardo3848]

Well Doug we'll laugh about this when we're all under the Tree of Life Hallelujah Hallelujah! Hallelujah ! Thank You for your Bible Study ! Thanks I'm no longer a Practising Catholic! Hallelujah! Should've left 45yrs ago better late than never but I've always been A Sabath Keeper and have the jobs to prove it ! We'll I left too Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah! Peace Joy Love and Grace to all! PRAISE YaHuWaH Yahushua and The Ruach Ha Kodesh! Amen

[@goodlucknwogu6285]

May God bless your ministry pastor

[@cheyennelegerton5383]

this is anything but simple

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

do u need help with that sermon 1844 made simple

[@lutherb2954]

It’s because he can’t prove it with a simple this sayers the Lord.

[@jayceejm]

And he can't because those scriptures don't exist and he knows it

[@lutherb2954]

jayceejm yup, no scriptures so, let’s go look somewhere else to find a way to make sense of a miscalculation of prophecy based on a theory that conflicted with scripture... no man shh all know the day or the hour of His coming... HELLLOOOOOO???

[@cyndephillipshohbein8232]

@@lutherb2954 Nor woman..... YUP! BWAH HAH HAH HAH!!! Left decades ago - Academy was filled with fear-mongered nightmares.....

[@HebrewSteve]

The vision of Daniel 8 was explained by Gabriel in that same chapter. It was fulfilled to the “T” during the 400 years between the OT and NT. Any doctrine that is birthed out of a disappointment as a way to explain that disappointment needs to be side-eyed...

[@HebrewSteve]

It’s like trying to repurpose the Tower of Babel lol

[@Christopher-sl9ev]

Ameeeeeeeeen! And I just cannot understand for Christ Sake, how SDA'S Cannot see this! The interpretation was already given by Daniel. The interpretation they are giving is completely contrary to scriptures.

[@benjamindantzie8053]

No such thing Doug. This prophecy was fulfilled through Antiochus Epiphanes IV. No such thing as Christ beginning his ministry in 1844.

[@mmtoss6530]

If the investigative judgement is real, why do most Adventist scholars disprove it?

[@servantofjesus5669]

Mmtoss , study it for yourself, and see if u are honest and Have a love for the truth and see if you do not honestly come To THE SAME CONCLUSION. SCHOLARS ?? WHAT DID JESUS SAY TO NECADEMUS ARE YOU A RULER IN ISRAEL AND DO NOT KNOW THESE THINGS? When JESUS SAID YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, HE SAID MUST I GO BACK IN MY MOTHERS WOMB AND B BORN AGAIN? JESUS HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THE NEW BIRTH EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A RULER OF THE SYGNOUGE TheY DISPROVE IT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DECEIVE THEMSELVES, WHICH IS SAD, HOW CAN U REFUTE SUCH PLAIN BIBLE TEACHINGS ? Unless the devil totally blinded your spiritual eyes? THE TRUTH WONT HURT U TO STUDY IT FOR YOURSELF A BIT OF MATHS IS INCLUDED SO KNOW YOUR MATHS, MANY DO IT HONESTLY AND COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION THAT WHY THERE ARE SO MANY SDA. God bless u my friend, Have a love for the TRUTH.

[@July-A7]

@@servantofjesus5669 nonsense. Investigative Judgment since 1844 has no support in the Bible. It's actually blasphemy to claim that Christ's sacrifice wasn't a sufficient atonement and it wasn't completed at the Cross. SDA is plainly wrong. The Bible is clear.

[@exjwflatearther6554]

Rather, 1844 was the great disappoitment.

[@cyndephillipshohbein8232]

It was plain out sin - ~~~~ Do not set dates, for when My Father comes ~~~ paraphrased... OCTOBER 22, 1844...... BUSTED..... A church based on lies.... How many of the churches you mention are "offspring" (B---ard children) of SDA's.....

[@michelleh8712]

It was orchestrated by God (as was when Jesus rode on a donkey and was praised), so that the people would search the Bible.

[@barryford1482]

The Bible says Jesus went into the heavenly temple once. Doug is saying Jesus went in three times 1 activating the temple 2 into the holy place 3 into the most holy place in 1844. I repeat the Bible in Hebrews 9 says he went into the most holy place ONCE and that is said three times in that same chapter

[@johnkiziri6626]

Thank you so

[@tonyharmony4231]

An evening and a morning were the first day etc. Creation days in Genesis part dark and part light is one dayFrom Sun down to Sun down equals 24 Hr. Cycle

[@cyrusparvini]

William Miller was right- Spirit of Christ did indeed return to the earth in 1844 as he predicted. Please watch THE MILLER PREDICTION on KZbin. Millions of Baha'is around the world believe that BAHA'U'LLAH ( The Glory of God ) is the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. They are presently teaching His message of Unity of Mankind and World Peace in 200 countries Also watch the documentary "World Peace - A Baha'i Vision" on KZbin.

[@jemoljoseph1471]

cyrusparvini willing Miller admitted he was wrong, how cud you say he was right ?

[@gibsonmunashemunyoro9142]

returned from where? this 1844 doctrine is rubbish it can not be defended no matter what

[@July-A7]

@@gibsonmunashemunyoro9142 spot on. Nothing in the Bible to support this theory, that SDA call a doctrine.

[@daviddraime592]

@@jemoljoseph1471 I think @cyrusparvini is saying that Miller was right about the year (1844), but wrong about the manner in which He would return - exactly what happened two millennia ago. The people of Jesus’ time expected the coming of the Messiah and prayed for His coming but when He did come and unveiled His Beauty, they all denied Him, except for a few, poor fishermen, who were, in the eyes of the Scribes and Pharisees, of no account. Why? Because He did not come in the visibly spectacular, outwardly glorious manner that their imaginations had conjured. It took spiritual eyes (insight) to see Him - and apparently, only a few pure souls had that. So, is it just possible that history has repeated itself? Is it just a coincidence that on the evening of May 23, … 1844! - in far-off Persia was born a new, now emerging, global religion that claims to fulfill all of the promises and expectations found in the Bible? It is very easy to investigate (Bahai.org). In the words of Jesus, “He that hath ears, let him hear.”

[@scotscott7769]

What nonsense! Leading masses astray! .. you will be held accountable!

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

sorry scott , just cause you can't see it does not make it wrong, i was RC became SDA 45 years ago, got a degree in theology, so you have the problem not the SDA church

[@MichiMind]

Here is correction Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f

[@jayceejm]

@david King you swapped one cult for another but you MIGHT be closer with SDAC. But don't stop keep going He has more to give you.

[@cyndephillipshohbein8232]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp Baloney Sausage!!! You went from RC to SDA 45 years ago...So What? I went from SDA to a bit of church hopping until I became RC 25 years ago... So? We explored different paths... "Theology:" Any balanced critical thinking and comparative analysis, or a steady stream of memorizing: "Sister White....."

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

@@cyndephillipshohbein8232 ............What can I say? The fact that you could not see the truth in Adventism but in Catholicism is a great Mystery...But I see your benefits - you get to have a priest forgive your sins, you get to go to church on sunday to honor the Sun, you get to talk to the mother of God, you get to go to heaven thanks to the pope's invitation, you can also pay money to add to your repentance and time in purgatory and limbo, you also get to go celibate at least in theory, you can also talk to the dead saints and have them pray for you, you can also pay for masses for the dead, so I guess you are right when you say - I am not one for critical thinking and comparative analysis, I am just an ignorant protestant believing the bible, but maybe if I had the Apocrypha as you do I would see things according to your wisdom and church teachings...

[@Biblejems777]

Michael Toms wrote: What is there to be investigated, when I am covered by blood of Jesus and take on his righteousness? [End Quote] What gets investigated is whether you have actually taking on Christ's righteousness or whether you are just saying that you have. Are you allowing God to live out His life of righteousness in you and through you? It's not just about taking His righteousness but actually wearing it. Let's allow a parable from Jesus to elucidate the matter. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (Matt 22:11, 12) According to Jesus' parable even after a person enters the wedding they have to wear the wedding garment. Some do and others do not and this is what gets revealed by the investigative judgment. Those who do not have no excuse to God's inquiry and they end up getting thrown out. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt 22:13) This is just one of several places that explain what the pre-advent or investigative judgment is about. It's about the Son of God publicly witnessing before His Father and the angels who the overcomers are. Again turning to holy Scripture we read: 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Rev 3:4,5) Here, in the message to the church of Sardis, Jesus speaks of those who are worthy and He gives a promise that the overcomer will be clothed in white rainment and his name will not be blotted out of the book of life but rather He would confess it before His Father and before His angels. This auditing of the book of life is what this judgment is about. And by the way it's not for God's sake that this is occurring for God knows all things including who are His and who are not but He does this for the angels who are not omniscient. God is in the business of demonstrating or evidencing the faith of His children. He does this before angels (pre-advent judgment) and men (during the millennium and at the end) as Revelation 20 reveals.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

read Mt. 7. 21-23 for your answer, u do get judged as a Christian but you pass through faith in christ

[@July-A7]

@Jason Smith, it's all a conjecture, brother. Your interpretation is flawed. I know, you are merely repeating SDA's wrong understanding, but it doesnt make it right. There is no investigative judgment since 1844 for the simple reason that the Bible doesn't support such a doctrine whatsoever. Read the book of Hebrews. It explains that Atonement was completed at the Cross. The Old testament sanctuary services were all fulfilled in the life and ministry and sacrifice and ascension of Christ. None is left to be completed. We are made one with God and boldly enter onto the presence of the Father through Jesus. The parable of the King and guests? Well, not what you say it is. Jesus' parables had specific purpose and one cannot twist their meaning. Otherwise, you'll end end just like EGW who claimed that the parable of 10 virgins had a shut door doctrine. Utterly unbiblical and plainly wrong. Even EGW forsook this nonsense in her later years. God has to justify Himself before the angels because they can't see what is happening? The Bible doesn't support this either. Ultimately, you'll only understand the Bible when you stop reading it through the prism of SDA or any other denomination and start reading it for yourself. The Bible is clear.

[@Biblejems777]

@@July-A7 It was not conjecture. I gave the Scriptures that show that God comes in to see the guests and removes the one who is not wearing the garment (Matt 22:11-13). You have said it's not what I say it is but you have not given an alternative. The parable and its meaning is clear friend. I also gave Scripture that shows the Lord Jesus auditing the book of life in the presence of the angels (Rev 3:4,5). That is what the pre-advent or investigative judgment is about. You claim that the Bible does not support this doctrine but it does. Your not seeing it doesn't mean it isn't there. Study the typology of the sanctuary and, also, the very book of Hebrews that you referenced actually teaches that the heavenly sanctuary itself requires a cleansing. "It is necessary, therefore, the pattern indeed of the things in the heavens to be purified with these, and the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these (Heb 9:23 YLT) The cleansing of the pattern of the things happened at the end of the Jewish religious year by animal blood. It was a type of the great culmination event that served as a symbolic prophecy of the work of our High Priest Jesus at the end of the Christian dispensation. The cleansing of the heavenly things by the merit of the blood of Christ is the actual culmination event of this world's history. Do not confuse the fact that His once for all sacrifice of atonement has been completed with the idea that His priestly ministry is therefore finished too. God forbid! Jesus has been at work, cleansing individuals ever since and His corporate work will be done one day soon too. His sacrifice of atonement and corresponding ascension were not the end of His intercession but the start of it. Again, the very book that you referenced negates your claim and the book of Revelation actually not only shows us the ongoing intercession but also its upcoming culmination: "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. (Rev 15:8) If nothing was left to be completed at Jesus' ascension, almost 2,000 years ago, then why are people portrayed as being able to enter into the heavenly sanctuary by faith all the way up until the 7 last plagues fall? Why are they portrayed as being measured there? (Rev 11:1) And if all was finished at Calvary then why is there another statement declaring "It is done" at the 7 last plagues from out of the temple? "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done (Rev 16:17) The reality here friend, as I stated earlier, is that intercession in the heavenly sanctuary started at His ascension. He did not have to offer any other sacrifice, for His one sacrifice is sufficient for the entire work to be accomplished, but His priestly intercession is what began and it is what will end soon. The Lord Jesus inaugurated the heavenly sanctuary and that, by the way, is why the 24 elders from Revelation 4 take on a priestly capacity once He is enthroned in Revelation 5. It's also why we see a progressive intercession throughout the book culminating with the Scripture above. It's also why we see the opening of the heavenly equivalent of the most holy place under the 7th trumpet "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Rev 11:15-19) The Bible is clear and if you will remove your theological bias then you will see that what I have told you is true and, just so you know, I'm not a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. I am non-denominational Christian so this isn't a matter of reading through a denominational prism but rather my going by the weight of Bible evidence.

[@July-A7]

@@Biblejems777 further surmusing from you throwing verses from the Bible as a badly constructed puzzle. Read the book of Hebrews. It explains that Christ fulfilled the old testament sanctuary services. Nothing about Investigative Judgment because it doesn't exist in the Bible no matter how much you try to justify it. There's is a judgment of all people and this judgment will award some everlasting life, while others, eternal damnation, but this is not the Investigative Judgment that SDA and you talk about. You fail to differentiate that there are two distinct, yet connected phases, hence your questions why it is necessary this and that in Revelation. 1. Salvation was accomplished at the Cross. It is finished. Satan is a defeated enemy. People have been atoned for. The way to heaven is open for us. Hebrews explains it clearly for the wise and in simple terms. 2. Actual award given at the second Coming of Jesus. The saved group will have their bodies transformed into heavenly unperishable bodies and live forever and ever. Revelation talks about it. As well as Paul in other books. The parable of the King examining the wedding guests has nothing to do with Investigative Judgment. It is to show that God provides the garment of salvation and all it takes is from you to put it on, rather than reject the gift that Christ has given us and try to reach heaven on own terms with our own filthy rags.

[@Biblejems777]

@@July-A7, Having already read the book of Hebrews (in Greek too) I know that what you claim is false. Christ has certainly fulfilled the sacrifice but He is still actively fulfilling priestly mediation. That part has not yet been completely fulfilled. Just read the text friend: "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:14) The Greek verb "καθαριεῖ" is a future indicative. Thus the author is presenting this as something Christ will do. This one point, by itself, repudiates your claim. What the Old Testament sanctuary services typified have not yet all been fulfilled despite your claim. This is hard for some Christians to accept but if they would prayerfully read the Revelation of Jesus Christ with an open heart and mind then the Spirit would confirm it to them. And what you are failing to grasp here friend is that there is an open book judgment scene, an auditing of the book of life that occurs before Christ returns the 2nd time. Even though it's mentioned in the Bible many people deny it. Christ went to heaven to receive His kingdom and that involves the auditing of the book of life. He will return from heaven, having received it, to perform His executive judgment. That is when the following Scripture will be fulfilled: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book (Dan 12:1) I hope your name is written in the book of life, friend, and that it is retained there. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels (Rev 3:5)

[@claraleon6715]

Keep the good work Pastor.

[@jayceejm]

Never had a problem with him until now. Mr. Batchelor at 7:10 you begin to list the reasons other Christians have a problem with your Investigative Judgment and the fact that you went to the most FRINGE FANATICS of Christianity to FIND some WARPED thinking to prop up this doctrine is deeply troubling. Do you not fear the very God who is going to judge us? I am an SDA who was once worshipped on a Sunday. I still have many Christian friends who still do. NONE of them believe the things you say here and none of their churches teach that. You say this PRECISELY to get your listeners (who have never stepped in a Sunday church so don't know better) to DISREGARD from the very outset any questions that are raised about this doctrine. You know PRECISELY what the troubles both SDAs (those who take time out to really study this doctrine, few they be) and NON SDAs and you have not named EVEN ONE of those which tells me you are deliberately being DISINGENUOUS (charitable word for dishonesty). If you are so confident about what you believe tell the church what the REAL concerns are. Until you do that I will from henceforth have reasons to have to consider you a danger to truth and one who actually operates with an ANTI Christ spirit.

[@patrickhamilton5829]

The doctrine of Once saved always saved is unbiblical.

[@July-A7]

@jayceejm, you are correct. SDA is plainly wrong with their doctrine about Investigative Judgment since 1844.

[@alanford11]

God is not the author of confusion and this convoluted presentation is confusing jumping here there and everywhere to construct and defend a denominational doctrine. When does the 2300 days (literally evenings and mornings) begin? We don't have to search for some artificial date that has nothing at all to do with defiling the temple. The obvious and simple answer is, from the time the abomination was set up in the temple. 2300 days later it was cleansed. And the 2300 evening and morning sacrifices were reinstituted, a day celebrated by the Jews as the feast of Dedication, (when Jesus taught in the Temple - John 10)

[@MichiMind]

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f For clarifying

[@przebudzenie_jutrzenki_1234]

Te wyjaśnienia prowadzą do 31. roku n.e. śmierci Mesjasza według Dn. 9. Tymczasem wiemy, że Mesjasz NIE MÓGŁ umrzeć w tym roku, ale w roku 30. n.e.. Rok 31. n.e. nie miał złożenia szabatu tygodniowego i 15. nisan tej samej doby. Nauczanie adwentystyczne to próba ratowania daty 1844 po tym, gdy William Miller doprowadził do rozczarowania tak wielu ludzi. Księżyc i Jutrzenka są przeciwnikami teorii K ADS, którą on promuje dla czegoś w rodzaju supremacji K ADS nad innymi zborami chrystianizmu. Hbr. 13. pokazuje jednak, że 10. tiszri wypełnił się 14. nisan poza obozem, czyli na Kalwarii poza murami Jerozolimy. Święto jesienne wypełnione na wiosnę to przykład typologii. Tak samo chanuka 25. kislew zapowiadała 6. Siwan pięćdziesiątnicy Jezusa Chrystusa. Adwentyści obudźcie się! Pozbawiliście Mesjasza 31. rokiem znaku Jutrzenki, bo tego roku śmierci i zmartwychwstaniu nie towarzyszyłoby to zjawisko. Pozdrawiam.

[@July-A7]

This seems interesting but can you write it in English please?

[@przebudzenie_jutrzenki_1234]

@@July-A7 Proszę skorzystać z automatycznego tłumacza.

[@July-A7]

@@przebudzenie_jutrzenki_1234 if you want people to read your comment, you have to do it in English. Use auto translator.

[@andrewellis5923]

Doug Batchelor, why don't you share how the date October 22 1844 was arrived at.?????????????????

[@Yashua2Rule]

Gaslighter Magazine

[@tonymuse]

LOL, true!

[@rickhuntling7338]

Here is your new covenant found in Isaiah 55:3 " Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear and your soul shall live: and I will make an EVERLASTING COVENANT with you even the sure mercies of David." Her is the explanation Acts 13:34 "And concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. If this is not the GOSPEL covenant what is it? GBu Rick

[@tonymuse]

I will NEVER understand how Miller and Adventists today can imply ignore What Gabriel told Daniel: Daniel 8:21 The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power. 23 “In the latter period of their rule, When the transgressors have run their course, A king will arise, Insolent and skilled in intrigue. This little horn arose during the latter period of divided Greece which was before the Roman Empire rose to power. Daniel 8 had absolutely nothing to do with 1844.

[@MichiMind]

www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f facts

[@tonybristow-stagg2723]

As posted in reply to fmstdaler below, this can be seen Wtith another "Frame of Reference" as Follows Daniel prophesies that from the restoration of Jerusalem to the time the Messiah gave his life for the sins of the people is 70 weeks (Dan. 9;24) In the Bible each day stands for a year 70 weeks x 7 days per week = 490 days = 490 years Christ at the time of crucifixion was 33 years old 490 years-33 years = 457 years BC (Before the birth of Christ) This was the year that king of Persia Artaxerxes issued the decree to restore Jerusalem. (Ezra 7; 7,8 ) Concerning the second coming of the Messiah, here are the exact words of Daniel; “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the abomination of desolation, to give the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said on to me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”. (Dan. 8; 13,14) 2300 days = 2300 years from year 457 BC to year 1 (birth of Christ) is 456 years 2300 years - 456 years = 1844 The Koran also shows this Date; In Islám, the Qur’án states, “to each age its Book” (Súrah 13:38) and “Every nation hath its set time” (Súrah 7:33). To the Muslim dispensation He hath ordained “a day whose length shall be a thousand of such years as ye reckon” (Súrah 32:4). The reckoning of the said day started after the last of the 12 Imáms passed away in the year AH 260. By adding the period of 1,000 years previously mentioned to the year 260, we get AH 1260 which is equivalent to AD 1844 the year the Bahá’í Faith began. And again from Zoroaster Zoroastrianism Predicts 1844 for its Hushidar Door of Wisdom in terms of the religion of the Arabian, written long before the appearance of Islam:First one we would see as the Bab, the 2nd Woe of Revelation (Muhammad first Woe of Revelation) • When 1,260 years have elapsed from the religion of the Arabian. Hushidar will appear and the Iranians will kill him. AD 622-1844 Muslim Era (AH 1-1260), andThis one would be Baha'u'llah or the Third Woe of Revelation • A thousand two hundred and some years…from the inception of the religion of the Arabian and the overthrow of the kingdom of Iran and the degradation of the followers of My religion, a descendant of the Iranian kings will be raised up as a Prophet. There are many many more! Coincidence? Regards Tony

[@LaJoBa1]

Thank you for this.

[@tonybristow-stagg2723]

La Jo Ba Thank you for reading. I hope you get a chance to understand the importance of 1844. God bless you and all.

[@pash846]

Hi Tony, From where do you get your Zoroastrian prophecies? Regards.

[@gibsonmunashemunyoro9142]

@@tonybristow-stagg2723 1844 is just a false prophecy. Jesus was suppose to come on that day period. The preacher wants to fool us that early Christians did not understand it when Jesus was on the cross. That may be correct but what he fail to see is that the prophecy was correct the the Messiah must come and die, but it was the understanding of the prophecies that was wrong among the people . Here what is wrong is not the understanding but the prophecy itself. It said Jesus was coming back in 1844 but he did not. Investigative judgement was not the prophecy it just a creation to cover up a false doctrine

[@tonybristow-stagg2723]

@@pash846, sorry I missed this, this link gives the sources prophecy-fulfilled.com/ Regards Tony

[@jerapierce]

How exactly did SDA come up with the Oct 22 1844 date? The Jew's calendar says Day of Atonement was Sept 23 1844. If it is to be one of my foundational beliefs I should be able to give answer for it. Right? I can't seem to find one. Please help.

[@tonymuse]

They were date-setting the return of Christ just like any diluted people do today. If I'm not mistaken, the latest day is September 23, 2017. After this turned out to be false, they invented the whole investigative judgment idea to save face. Sad.

[@BradSexson]

However, we have learned that the word “tsadeq” which is used in Daniel 8:14 is related in a very special way to the context of what the day of Atonement is all about. Notice its use elsewhere in the scriptures: -Used in the Context of Judgement, Vindication of the Righteous and the Punishment of the Wicked: Psalm 7:8-9 (8) The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness (tsadeq), and according to mine integrity that is in me. (9) Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just (tsadeq): for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. Psalm 9:4-8 (4) For thou hast maintained my right and my cause; thou satest in the throne judging right (tsadeq). (5) Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. (6) O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them. (7) But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment. (8) And he shall judge the world in righteousness (tsadeq), he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. Psalm 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified (tsadeq) when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. -Used in the Context of Salvation: Psalm 98:2 (2) The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness (tsadeq) hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen. Psalm 119:123 (123) Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, and for the word of thy righteousness (tsedeq). Isaiah 53:11 (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify (tsadeq) many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Isaiah 45:22-25 (22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. (25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified (tsadeq), and shall glory. -Used in the Context of Purification and cleansing: Job 4:17 (17) Shall mortal man be more just (tsadeq) than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? Note: The word “pure” is the Hebrew word “taher” which is the same word used to describe the cleansing of the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:30). Here we find that both taher and tsadeq are interchangable! Psalm 18:20 (20) The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness (tsadeq); according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me. Psalm 19:9 (9) The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous (tsadaq) altogether. Job 15:14 (14) What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous (tsadeq)? See also Eccl. 9:2 and Job 17:9. We notice that the Hebrew word "tsadeq" and its derivation are associated with such concepts as Judgement, Vindication, Rightousness, Salvation, Purification and Cleansing. All these concepts are exactly what the Day of Atonement is all about. Notice the following quote: "From the Hebrew sadaq, "to be just," "to be righteous." The verb occurs in the form here found (niphal) only this once in the O.T., which may suggest that a specialized meaning of the term is indicated. Lexicographers and translators suggest various meanings, such as "be put right," or "be put in a rightful condition," "be righted, "be declared right," "be justified," "be vindicated." ... Thus the Hebrew sadaq may convey the additional thought that God's character will be fully vindicated as the climax to "the hour of his judgement" (Rev. 14:7), which began in 1844." -The Seventh-Day Adventist Commentary vol. 4, pp. 844, 845, (orig. ed. 1955). Note also that the Hebrew words taher and tsadeq are sometimes used interchangably throughout scripture, a seen in the following two verses:

[@jerapierce]

No they were following the timeline of the prophesies of Daniel. It just so happened due to a misunderstanding that they set a date. God used it for good, and a multitude of people proved throughout it that they would be faithful to God despite opposition from people they earlier thought were devout. Those that sought the true meaning of the prophecies are like wheat and will be saved. Those who ridiculed them and went away are like the tares that will be gathered to be burned, They my friend will be reduced to ashed under the righteous' feet. I do not agree with date setters, but I would not call the Millerite movement that.

[@jerapierce]

Brad sexon, so how does this pinpoint the DOA of 1944 as Oct. 22?

[@tonymuse]

Jeremiah Pierce I would argue that Miller only created another misconception to cover this previous misconception. In order to come up with the 1844 date, SDA's tie Daniel 8 and 9 together with "the vision" mentioned in 8-9:23, but the beginning of Daniel 9 gives the proper context. _Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans 2 in the first year of his reign, _*_I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years_*_. 3 So I gave my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth and ashes._ Daniel was trying to gain understanding of Jeremiah's prophecy. Then Daniel enters into prayer and supplication for his people. _20 Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, 21 while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering. 22 He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. 23 At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision._ Gabriel was sent to Daniel to give him understanding about Israel's return according to Jeremiah's prophecy; when it would happen, how long it would take and under what circumstances. Gabriel then tells him that the Messiah would come after 69 weeks, then be killed in the midst of the 70th. Then afterwards an army would come and destroy the temple and city. There is no reference to the ram/goat vision in Daniel 9, only Jeremiah's vision, in fact, Daniel was told to seal it up the ram/goat vision for it was many days in the future. Both of these prophecies were given their own start time. Daniel 8 was when the sacrifice was removed, Daniel 9 was when the decree went out to rebuild the city. Totally different times, kingdoms and context. Blessings!

[@williamlarochelle6833]

1844 Made Simple: Didn't happen, anymore than Jesus's end time prophecies--Matthew 16:27-28, for example. He's not ever coming back because he's dead and gone. Quit dreaming.

[@cyndephillipshohbein8232]

Your litany of numeric factoids re 1844 sounds like an exercise in Numerology. Try selecting a different year and see what you can come up with - Guinness Book of World Records, etc are permitted...

[@sillygoose9666]

If egw was correct about the shut door policy who can believe the cross has power to cleanse sin

[@July-A7]

EGW was wrong on many points. She merely repeated what people around her were surmising. You can't go by what EGW wrote. She was a mere religious writer, not prophetes.

[@janetdavidson8798]

EGW told false doctrines.

[@meynardcalangan7770]

When Jesus ascended to heaven, He sat down at the right hand of the Father. Isn't that the holiest place of all? And that He did not wait until 1844 to transfer to the most holy place? Where was the Father before 1844, only in a holy place? And that they both transferred to the most holy place in 1844? I'm a little confused with this 1844 doctrine so please help out. As for my understanding from the book of Hebrews, Jesus ascending and entering heaven is akin to the old covenant event where the high priest would enter the most holy place once a year for atonement. Jesus completed the atoning sacrifice when he died on the cross, resurrected and ascended to heaven as the new high priest of the new covenant. And He has been there waiting until His enemies become His footstool.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

study 1844 on line and the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. 24, amazingfacts.org

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

YOU APPEAR TO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF O.T SANCTUARY--- So, briefly, in the OT sanctuary there were 2 significant periods. One was the daily ritual of killing lambs which symbolized the death of Christ, the other was the day of atonement, which was a one day event, and the day of atonement was a day of judgment....so when Christ went to heaven after the cross he went into the first apartment of the heavenly sanctuary, and we know there are 2 apartments - holy and most holy....He went into the first apartment in AD 31, and He was there atoning for sin by administering His blood for sinners......but in 1844 he added another phase to his work and that was - judgment...so what this doctrine teaches is that in 1844 Christ began His work of judging the world before He comes back......and He started this work when He entered the most holy place, the basis of this doctrine is found in Daniel 8.14 it says after 2300 days or prophetic years the sanctuary would be cleansed.... a day in bible prophecy equals one year ..EZE. 4.6; Num. 14:34....so the 2300 years start in 457 BC and end in 1844 AD. The start date is found in Daniel 9. 24 regarding the 70 weeks, the text literally reads the 70 weeks are "cut off" so they are cut off from the 2300 of Daniel 8:14. And we know the last sanctuary on earth was destroyed in AD 70 so this has to be speaking about the heavenly sanctuary. You can email me if you want to chat or go on line just type in 1844 /SDA-----or better still - watch the movie that tells it all called "tell the world" and it is excellent I have watched it twice...........this doctrine is only held by the SDA church but it is correct. It is a challenging doctrine to accept and understand but when you realize that the Sanctuary on earth had 2 phases, one of atonement and one of judgement then you realize that the sanctuary in heaven also has 2 phases because Ex. 25. 8, 9, & 40 says - Moses was told to make the earthly sanctuary and its functions according to the pattern shown to him on mount Sinai. Hope this helps, but do watch the movie....tell the world.adventist.org........no spaces

[@tonymuse]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp The 70 weeks and Daniel 8 have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

the 70 weeks are cut off from the 23oo days if you don't know that you are wandering in the desert

[@tonymuse]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp That is the SDA interpretation, no one else teaches that because it is a false interpretation. SDA's assume that Daniel was contemplating his chapter 8 vision in chapter 9, when in fact he was contemplating Jeremiah's vision about the Jews being in captivity, it states so in verse 1 of chapter 9. Daniel was praying to God that He would remember His people and His promise to bring them back to Jerusalem after 70 years of exile. Chapter 8 deals with the earthly sanctuary being defiled in the latter period of the 4 divided kingdoms of Greece, it states this in verse 23. The whole idea of the heavenly sanctuary needing to be cleansed denies that Jesus Christ finished the work of salvation on the cross. October 22, 1844 was nothing more than Miller being a false dater-setter, that day meant absolutely nothing from a prophetic standpoint.

[@nisaabrahan3393]

there is nothing simple about that doctrine that the fact that d denied the that Jesus finish at the cross and he died for our sin he said its finish. Please Read the Bible

[@davidogden5498]

1844 AD ?Mathew Chapter 1 ; generations of Christ from Abraham'; Abraham to David 14 generations;David to carrying off to Babylon 14 generations; from carrying off to Babylon to Christ 14 generations; total 42 generations , a generation is accepted as being 30 years ,so 30 x 42 = 1260 years . 1260 in the Muslim calendar is the year in which they are warned about the return of the 12th hidden Imam this is the year as 1844 AD. maybe just a curiosity.

[@hawksinclair8875]

1844 is not biblical at all. Not one church and their best theologians have ever come up with that date. It is completly fictitious. In Daniel 8 it says it takes 2300 evenings and mornings then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated. That has happened a long time ago already and is celebrated as hanukkah by the Jews every year since that victory. Even Jesus went to that celebration. John 10:22-23, 2000 years ago. It is generally agreed by all historians that Antiochus Epiphanes occupied the temple about 2300 days that is about 6 and a half years then he was overcome by the Jews and the temple reconsecrated. 2300 evening mornings refers to the evening and morning sacrifices. 2300 times it was not possible in the temple. It was 2300 days of no sacrifices not years. Adventists have no right to turn days into years and let them begin in 457 bc by the restoration of Jerusalem in 457 bc . They mingle this with the prophecy of the 70 weeks 457 bc. for the starting point of the 2300 days. Nothing that was predicted happened then. It is not followed by any theologian. To turn days into years because it is convenient to juggle this around wherever they want to have it is more than bizarre. Hanukkah refutes all this and Adventism is based on a confused bizarre calculation by William Miller who got it wrong completly like his prediction of the second coming.Ellen White went along with Miller. When it didn't happen miller recanted and admitted that he was wrong. Not so Ellen White she set the next date a few month later then again much later but it didn't happen. Then she changed it and put it into heaven and the anti gospel of the investigative judgment was born. Hanukkah refutes the whole 1844 system and of course Jesus didn't enter the holy of holies but went to heaven sittIng at the right hand of God. Hebrews 10:12-13. “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.”

[@henryfirus6856]

Greetings , i would be very much interested in your opinion, and the opinion of others regarding this fresh interpretation of Daniel 8:13-14: "Unto 2300 years and the perpetual Sabbath will return to the Law of the Sanctuary the Christian Church." Three key words in Daniel 8:13-14 are: KODESH is first used in Gen 2:3 for the Sabbath, so it means seventh day Sabbath. TAWMEED means perpetual, Joseph Bates wrote a book called “Perpetual Sabbath.” TSADAQ means to restore to the the Law. New Testament Sanctuary is the Christian Church, cleansed by the restoration of the Biblical Decalogue. Hiriam Edson's vision in the cornfield was about the Sabbath, see Mathew ch 12 where Jesus in the cornfield is master of the Sabbath, this was also confirmed by Ellen White's vision of the Ten Commandments with the Sabbath underlined. Uniqueness of S.D.A. Sabbath theology is the synthesis of Daniel 13-14 and Leviticus ch 16:5. Is it possible that typology of Leviticus 16:5 represents Esau, Jacob, and Isaac? and by further extension represents Christians and Jews, that is Esau is the goat for the Lord, Jacob is the scapegoat, and Isaac the ram, and all three represent the One Messiah Jehosha in the triune atoning sacrifice for our sins. This reasoning is based on the Hebrew word "saw-eer" found in Lev 16:5, and first used in Genesis ch 27, where Esau is "saw-eer", and Jacob becomes "saw-eer azazel", when Rebekah places the skin of the goat on him and he is told to escape to Laban. The word "azazel" also means strong one against God, or God fighter, as does the name Israel given to Jacob. Confirmation of this typology is found in writings of Ellen White in her “unusual statement on the scapegoat”, see end of this: whiteestate.org/legacy/issues-scapegoat-asp/ Day of Atonement is also the Day of Reconciliation, pointing to the prophetic reconciliation between members of the Biblical family, that is Christians, Jews, and Messiah Jehoshua . Malachi 4:4-6 Synthesis of Daniel 8:13-14 and Leviticus 16:5 prophetically calls the Seventh Day Adventist movement to restore the Biblical Decalogue, and reconcile the Biblical family in fulfilment of Malachi 4:4-6. Seventh Day Adventist movement was prophetically called to participate in this mission of reconciliation. What do you think? Please comment, thank you.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

your views are - imagination gone wild, crazy ideas.stick to reality

[@henryfirus6856]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp invective is not an argument, stick to logical analysis.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

I agree, my apology, have a good holiday!

[@henryfirus6856]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp thank you, accepted with good humor, like Luther, i enjoy disputation. Wishing the best for our S.D.A. denomination, lets be workman in the field of spiritual ideas. Ellen White would approve, see her Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, chapter 3. Our denomination should be nudged to the center of the one multi-denominational Christian Church. Our denomination exists within the Christian Church, as Lutheran Judeo-Christian Seventh Day Adventist movement, this is possible, and in agreement with ideas entrusted to our pioneers.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

@@henryfirus6856 The pillars of this church have been laid, the foundation is solid, so we must not think there is much room for diversity outside that. Those who want to rearrange and add are usually not solid in the SDA church doctrinally

[@sillygoose9666]

But be honest she said the Lord would return in 1845

[@garyjackson8477]

he has the Holy Spirit and a true Christian

[@richardcollins3861]

+Gary Jackson He is a brainwashed cult follower. He is NOT a Christian.

[@garyjackson8477]

elder doug , brain washed how so.?

[@richardcollins3861]

Gary Jackson He believes the day of Atonement was on Oct 22, 1844. You cannot get anymore brainwashed with false teaching and false prophecy than that. He is NOT and elder and NOT a Christian. Are you a member of this SDA cult?

[@garyjackson8477]

before you have a cow try reading in the book of Daniel . there lays the truth and I can give you enough information to bury you to your waist lol I am a proud servant of Jesus and I am a ADVENTIST now block me just dont forget you had a chance

[@richardcollins3861]

Gary Jackson I have ZERO reason to block you. I have read Daniel and I know all about your false interpretations, Ellen G White, William Miller, etc. Were you born and raised SDA? I'll bet you were. Most brainwashing is done right in your own home. Do you want the truth, or do you prefer lies and deception?

[@john.k.karanja3676]

no scripture that says the heavenly santually shall be cleasned ,,the sciptures speak of santifying THE HEAVENLY COPIES ,,,THE HEAVENLY SANTUALLY WAS NOT A COPIES ,,,but when moses was asked to build atemple he did it according to heavenly copies that was made through the holy law ,,,the heavenly copies needed to be santified so that the new creation can come out of the old system and worship GOD IN SPIRIT ,,for jews did not worship in spirit but in shadows and similitude of heavenly things ,,,the accepted worship is in the spirit of GOD ,,FOR HE HAS MADE OUR BODIES TEMPLE TO WORK FORTH HIS RIGTHEOUSNESS

[@July-A7]

1844: Wrong date - Wrong event. Nothing happened in 1844 that is predicted in the Bible. All prophesies concern events that happen on the earth, not in Heaven. There is little point in God giving us a prophesy about something that will happen in heaven . It's none of our business. Jesus Christ went into the Most Holy place after His resurrection and ascension. He did not have to wait for the Adventist to tell Him what to do in 1844. Paul in Hebrews clearly states that Jesus went into the Most Holy place. The only book in the New Testament that talks about the services at Yom Kipur. The Old Testament temple services were an illustration of what was happening in the heavenly temple. The Day of Atonement was when Christ was crucified. He tore the veil that shielded the glory of God from our views. He went into the Most Holy place on our behalf and we entered with Him in the presence of the Father. We are no longer enemies of God, but saved through the blood of Jesus Christ and living in the presence of God Almighty. I'm a SDA member, but this whole doctrine of 1844 and Investigative judgment, EGW, etc are futile stories. God bless you all!

[@ninejing9999]

God bless you. Leave the organization and don't support it with tithes. Or bring others to the truth of the Gospel and the scriptures. If the sanctuary doctrine is false, then EGW is false.. That's a shot against the 24th and 18th fundamentals of belief.. And EGW is the pillar of the church (one of many). SD Adventism definitely is an old convenant church.

[@SeekTruthinLight]

What if it did begin of the way of spirit, in 1844, the bringing fourth the truth; that in time the truth would manifest of the spirit material truth, in the temple of God, as "He the spirit of truth" who would bring all understanding of the way of spirit, manifesting Truth in the world, the way of the Kingdom on earth, that could receive Christ in his coming, preparing the world as were as a wedding, bringing the truth of the LORD's way in his coming, by way of spiritual understanding, in truth.

[@christopherdebattista6350]

We are washed away and forgiven of our sins. There is not investigative judgement or probation. Yes, we must always walk in rightousness and we cab do that if we're born again of water and the Spirit (Holy Spirit). We must persevere till the end for its true that we can lose our salvation. Jesus will be our advocate and mediator in heaven, just like He did with Joshua when He gave him new white and clean garments. Zechariah chapter 3. Jesus is the final and full atonement for our sins! I do not know what you mean when you say spirit material truth? Stick to the Bible my friend and not doctrines of men.

[@gibsonmunashemunyoro9142]

If the 490 years ended in 36 AD then how is AD 70 (the destruction of Jerusalem) part of the 70 weeks? your mathematics is wrong. Secondly, Romans 9-11 written way after the expiry of the 70 weeks according to this interpretation scripture is clear that after the no. of gentles are come in them the messiah will return to the lost house of Israel and that all ISRAEL shall be saved see Rom 11

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

70 weeks ended in 34AD

[@MichiMind]

@@DavidKing-qd3sp yup and from 27ad-34 ad Yeshua Crucifixion was mid week 30.5ad

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

@@MichiMind Jesus was crucified in 31 Ad his ministry began in 27AD, died 31AD and the 70th week of Daniel 9 ended in 34 AD...he died in the middle of the week of the 70th week

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

490 years ended 34 AD not 36....started in 457 BC

[@henryfirus6856]

Greetings, if i could suggest a way to remove the need for "investigative judgement" in our SDA theology, and still be in conformity with Ellen White. In my opinion the best way is to reformulate typology in Leviticus 16:5. It is possible, based on Hebrew wording of the text, to assign the symbolism of "two kids of the goats" to Esau and Jakob, and the "ram' to Isaac. This typology has the imprimatur of Ellen White in her "Unusual Statement on the scapegoat', also has wide ranging implications for mission of the Christian Church in the 21 century. Daniel 8:14 needs to be reinterpreted to read: "...Shabbat will return to the Law of the Sanctuary". Sanctuary to be understood in the New Testament sense as the Christian Church, and "cleansing" as the restoration of the Biblical Decalogue, again this interpretation is possible with Hebrew text. Events immediately after the 1844 disappointment confirm this interpretation. Be happy to provide proofs for the above.

[@DavidKing-qd3sp]

Henry, without humor or invectives - your suggestion in this comment is incredibly bizzare...you want to change so much of our identity and theology, I don't think I have the temperament to discuss these issues with you, you are so far out in left and right field, hope you get your stuff together.

[@July-A7]

@Henry, it cannot work. Your proposed interpretation has no basis in the Bible. The two goats both represent Christ. Everything in the old testament sanctuary was about the ministry of Christ. There's no place for Satan there whatsoever. It's a blasphemy to claim that Satan will carry our sins away, yet EGW claims that (I know, I know. It's not her invention but she supported this untruth). Secondly, one only has to look at the book of Hebrews and will immediately understand that Yom Kippur was the Cross. Attonement was completed at the Cross and no Investigative Judgment is going on whatsoever. Doug Batchelor and most of SDA are plainly wrong with their 1844 fiasco. As far as EGW is concerned, she was a mere religious writer. Certainly not a prophetess of any kind.

[@henryfirus6856]

@@July-A7 The Hebrew word for the two kids of the goat in Leviticus 16:5 is "saw-eer", Strong's number H8163. This word is first found in Genesis 27:11 where Jacob says: "...Esau my brother is a hairy man", "saw-eer". Jacob impersonates Esau, so also becoming hairy "saw--eer", when Rebeca places skins on his hands and back. Jacob runs away to Laban becoming saw-eer azazel, "goat of departure" Hebrew word "azazel is made up of two Hebrew words "aza" and "zele", the meaning is: "from H5795 and H235; goat of departure; the scapegoat". Jacobs name is changed to "Israel", the word Israel translates: "God fighter", and in a Semitic dialects related to Hebrew there is a word close to the word "azazel" which also translates "someone who opposes God". Yes, Golgotha is the global Yom Kippur for the sins of the world, three sacrificial victims are crucified, Jesus and two malefactors, one malefactor represents Christians, the other represents Jews. Jews from that time on are exiled into the "wilderness of the nations" to be the "scapegoat". Antisemitism is that state of being the "scapegoat", and is assigned to the Jewish nation in Leviticus 16:10.

[@July-A7]

@@henryfirus6856 what you sayis interesting. However, I doubt that the plan salvation is overly concerned with Jacob and Issau or Jews and even Christians. Salvation is for everyone. Christ died for the sins of all. The Old sanctuary services illustrated the ministry of Christ. The two goats were without blemish , one year old, male. Each goat's fate was chosen by a lot, that is, by pure chance. Both represented Christ's ministry. One as a sacrifice on the altar, whose blood was spilled for atonement. The other one as Christ who carried away our sins in the wilderness never to return to the camp of the saved again. While doing this, He perished. So again, sacrificed for us. God bless!

[@henryfirus6856]

@@July-A7 Reconciliation within the Biblical family is a prerequisite for the return of Jesus, see Malachi 4:4-6. Jewish Christian reconciliation is the Gospel, see Ephesians ch 2 and 3. Please consider the first two songs at the beginning of this youtube video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nauzen-VrrKHbdE&ab_channel=HebrewUniversityofJerusalem in the first song we have the words of Jesus on the cross, and in the second song "Rozhinkes mit Mandlen", the mother rocking her baby symbolizes the Shekhinah, the Holy Spirit, comforting the Jewish people. Here are the words in English, can you see in these words a poetic reference to the Yom Kippur, and "azazel" the scapegoat? "In the Holy Temple in a quiet nook, sits the widowed daughter of Zion all alone. Rocking her only son to sleep, She quietly sings a lullaby. Under the baby's cradle sleeps a snow-white goat. Sleep, my little one, sleep, In this song it is prophesied that you will be scattered far and wide, …"

[@Maeroa145]

Very misleading

[@MichiMind]

Ikr? Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f

[@carin5654]

Doug Bachelor has the holy spirit and is a true humble Christian. So many immature unChristian like comments on here attacking Doug.

[@GKETWIN73]

The he that would cause the sacrifice to cease in Daniel 9 is not Jesus Christ but the coming Antichrist! This is speaking of the Abomination of Desolation in Tribulation period. You just called the Son of God the Antichrist and yes He is the Son and not merely an Archangel Michael but that is another issue entirely. That is blasphemous heresy. smh

[@gibsonmunashemunyoro9142]

Correct Dan 9: .... and the people of the prince to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary ; ..... Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans under general Titus in AD 70, thus the PRINCE TO COME (Antichrist) will be of roman origin.

[@skittlezdaboss2173]

Whaaaaat???? l l V

[@lutherb2954]

Skittlez Daboss follow the leader.

[@brianbannon6746]

Romans 10:4; Romans 4:5

[@robertb8417]

This subject has led many sincere SDA into a religion of subtle legalism because they think that God is going to look at their performance for their entrance into heaven, but both the Bible and Ellen White do not teach this error. Here's Ellen White's view: "The tempter stands by to accuse them, as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to their filthy garments, their defective characters. He presents their weakness and folly, their sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer. He endeavors to affright them with the thought that their case is hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations, and turn from their allegiance to God. Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins that he has tempted God's people to commit, and he urges his accusations against them, declaring, that by their sins they have forfeited divine protection, and claiming that he has the right to destroy them. He pronounces them just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. "Are these," he says, "the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them." But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them." [P&K 588]

[@robertb8417]

Does the following sound like commandment keepers: "Defective characters"; "sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ"; "lovers of self"; "selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another"? No, it does not! It sounds like commandment breakers. It sounds like those in the judgment are "falling short" of God's agape. So why a judgment...to see who is good enough for heaven? No! There's a judgment because there's an accuser, Satan. He accuses us believers of sin and he claims that we do not have a right to enter heaven. Is he right? Well, what does EGW state? "Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins" of God's people. So yes, Satan is spot on! You and I, even though we have not given ourselves "up to be controlled by the satanic agencies" as a lifestyle, are nonetheless falling short of the demands of God's law. So Satan is right...the best of us are sinners falling short of God's law. Christ's job in the judgment is to defend believers, not by looking at their performance, but by examining the source of their works. Are the believer's works based on his "works of the law" (legalism) or are his works based upon his resting in the finished work of Christ? The latter will be used to prove not his goodness, but his faith in Christ. Christ will then use these fruits (works of faith) to prove that the believer's faith is in Him and this gives Him the legal right to present the believer perfect in Himself. That's good news folks.

[@Dexion845]

Robert B what you basically just said is the investigative judgement is to gauge us to make sure we’re perfect like Christ... something we can’t do in a mortal body since we are not the fullness of the GodHead.... Then you say it’s based on faith. Which cancels out Sabbath observance since that is fulfilling a law requirement. This 1844 Investigative Judgement theory is nothing more than an apologetic doctrine to William Miller’s date blunder. Ellen White was shown a vision of something that another guy had “theorized” and later changed his mind on. It’s almost as believable as having over a billion Muslims submit to a Christian Sunday Law from the United States when the U.S. could barely turn Iraq into a democracy.

[@r.broyles463]

@ByHisCall You lost me here....Are we now discussing once saved always saved?

[@r.broyles463]

@ByHisCall One simple question: From what have you been saved?

[@r.broyles463]

Second question and not so simple: How did Christ legally save you from under "___ ___ ___ ___ ___" to under grace? If you can't answer then you are not presenting the gospel, but instead you are then preaching another gospel (see Gal 1:6-9)

[@nisaabrahan3393]

Nevar a prophet from God lie, always in the light plain trut

[@stewiefy]

7:03 People are not bothered by Jesus being our mediator and high priest. Christians are not even bothered by living a holy life nor are SDA's that leave the church. They are bothered by SDA's bent on justifying EGW as a prophet and being forced to leave if they don't believe she is. The fact you try to make 1844 simple every year and never accomplish it is proof you are just trying to justify your error and weed out those not bought in regarding EGW. I agree that Jesus caused the sacrifice to cease. I agree that Jesus is the high priest. I do not believe that he activated the sanctuary because I believe His sacrifice did that already. Why else would the first fruits taken from among men be raised after Him but at the time He was resurrected? If 144,000 Israelites were resurrected at the time He was, Him being first, they did not require any activation to have His atonement imparted on their behalf. By that I know, neither do we who are raised on the last day regardless of what He has done in heaven between then and now. I do believe the Ancient of Days will declare that judgement is set. It will be the last day of the 2300 yrs when he does because on that day/last day/judgement day, Jesus will return, His reward with Him, that the righteous may be resurrected and the books may be opened after judgement is set for the saints to stand before their Judge. As far as your best argument being the cleansing of the saints starting in 1844, that is again refuted by the first fruits taken from among men being raised with Jesus. Christians have been sanctified by the Word since it was preached to all nations. That only further refutes that modern idea that didn't even occur to EGW, and you call it your best argument. How does it feel that your self proclaimed best argument is so easily debunked? No wonder you kick people out when they figure out what's wrong with this doctrine. Why would Jesus like a lazy teenager fritter away 1800 yrs before finally realizing, "Oh right! the work of the sanctuary to cleanse those people I died for." You continue to coerce people to believe we the church are the sanctuary cleansed at the end of the 2300 yrs yet you also say he started cleaning in 1844. The earthly sanctuary was cleansed at the end of the year when the sin of the people transferred to the earthy sanctuary was transferred to the scapegoat and carried off into the wilderness. For us to apply this to the true heavenly model, the sanctuary being cleansed at the end of 2300 yrs can only be accomplished with transfer of the sins of the people to the heavenly sanctuary then to the scapegoat and carried off into the bottomless pit. If we are the sanctuary the sanctuary is not cleansed till Jesus returns. If our sin is transferred to the heavenly sanctuary, it is not cleansed till the end of the 2300 yrs when it is transferred to the head of the scapegoat and carried away into the bottomless pit. Either way, whether we are the sanctuary or the heavenly sanctuary, the sanctuary is not cleansed until the sin of the people is transferred onto the head of the scapegoat(satan) on the last day.(of the 2300 yrs) If we are the sanctuary and our reward is with Him when He returns, the sin of the people must be already transferred to the heavenly sanctuary for us to receive atonement, which means the heavenly sanctuary is cleansed on the last day when the sin of the people is transferred to the scapegoat from the heavenly sanctuary not the body(church) of Christ who could not be worthy of His reward with Him if our sin remained on our heads and not yet transferred to the heavenly sanctuary or the scapegoat. The work of the high priest must be the transfer of the sin of the repentant sinner to the heavenly sanctuary until the last day when it is transferred to the scapegoat and carried away into the bottomless pit. The sanctuary like Ch 8 says is cleansed at the end of the 2300 yrs, "unto 2000 300 yrs, THEN shall the sactuary BE cleansed." Until then the high priest, "My blood." transfers the sin of the repentant to the sanctuary until such time it is cleansed, when the judgement is set, and he who is wicked remains wicked still and likewise for the righteous.

[@rickhuntling7338]

How many days was Creation? Six Days. How does GOD refer to the days "And the EVENING and the MORNING were the first day" How is the 2300 days referred to in Daniel 8:13? days. How is the 2300 days summarized in Daniel 8:26 "And the vision of the EVENING and the MOURNING which was told is true: GOD added this verse for deceivers that try to contrive a lie such as the investigative Judgment. "Take heed that no man shall deceive you." GBU Rick PS the of book Ezra states no date of 457 clearly.

[@danward4170]

You are correct. Evenings and mornings define the direct article, which is an actual 24 hour day! The same as the Genesis account of creation 24 hour days SDA pastors, including Batchelor know this, yet lie.

[@rickhuntling7338]

They invented the investigative judgment to hide a mistake "the great disappointment" They prophesy the second coming in 1844 and that day came and past. So lets make this up, Jesus got out of HIS seat on this day, grace is over and your salvation depends on your works. This is a false Gospel and they will be held accountable for the lie. GBU Rick

[@danward4170]

Rick Huntling Correct

[@BradSexson]

2300 prophecy days

[@BradSexson]

wong

[@archiestewartjr.3588]

The 2300 days I disagree with SDA church on because 1844 wasn't important because the 2300 days were literal morning and evening unlike the prophecy of Daniel which was a day for a year which I agree with.

[@MichiMind]

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f

[@georgemartian2827]

why did you compare with bahai faith. the take all religions and mix them togethear. far from christs .

[@stevenvarner9806]

The Bahá'ís are not mixing all religions. Bahá'ís are followers of Bahá'u'lláh ("Glory of God") whose claim is that he is the Promised One of all faiths, the Supreme Redeemer of humanity, announcing the Day of God to ALL people. It was Bahá'u'lláh who explained that there is, and has always been, only one God and only one faith of God. That God continually reveals Himself through a series of Manifestations-incarnations of the Word and Command of God. Since they all reflect to humanity the same God, they are all in essence one same Divine Being-the Voice, Face, and Word of God on Earth. If you read Bahá'u'lláh's book The Book of Certitude (Iqan), he explains this concept of Return simply and clearly.

[@cyndephillipshohbein8232]

Most religions and philosophies share some dogmas, doctrines, thought processes... My University Philosophy Thesis paper, earned (A+),. on comparing "The Golden Rule" across numerous groups. We all have much in Common.

[@fsmtdaler]

1844 AD is the year 1260 AH . The 1260 is not about 1798. This is a false assumption. It discounts the coming of Islam and the lunar calendar intersection of 1260 AH, the declaration of the Bab. Also, 1280 AH is 1863, the year of the declaration of Baha'u'llah. This same year of 1280 AH (1863) is also exactly 1290 years after the public declaration of Muhammad. Thus, all three numbers from Daniel point to the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, as well as confirming the religion of Muhammad, as the starting point of these prophecies, and their fulfillment together with 2300 = 1844 = 1260. An open mind is required to see this.

[@BradSexson]

+fsmtdaler boy are you wasted and blind

[@tonybristow-stagg2723]

This is correct fmstdaler, this can be seen also this way; Daniel prophesies that from the restoration of Jerusalem to the time the Messiah gave his life for the sins of the people is 70 weeks (Dan. 9;24 ) In the Bible each day stands for a year 70 weeks x 7 days per week = 490 days = 490 years Christ at the time of crucifixion was 33 years old 490 years-33 years = 457 years BC (Before the birth of Christ) This was the year that king of Persia Artaxerxes issued the decree to restore Jerusalem. (Ezra 7; 7,8 ) Concerning the second coming of the Messiah, here are the exact words of Daniel; “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the abomination of desolation, to give the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said on to me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”. (Dan. 8; 13,14) 2300 days = 2300 years from year 457 BC to year 1 (birth of Christ) is 456 years 2300 years - 456 years = 1844 The Koran also shows this Date; In Islám, the Qur’án states, “to each age its Book” (Súrah 13:38) and “Every nation hath its set time” (Súrah 7:33). To the Muslim dispensation He hath ordained “a day whose length shall be a thousand of such years as ye reckon” (Súrah 32:4). The reckoning of the said day started after the last of the 12 Imáms passed away in the year AH 260. By adding the period of 1,000 years previously mentioned to the year 260, we get AH 1260 which is equivalent to AD 1844 the year the Bahá’í Faith began. And again from Zoroaster Zoroastrianism Predicts 1844 for its Hushidar Door of Wisdom in terms of the religion of the Arabian, written long before the appearance of Islam:First one we would see as the Bab, the 2nd Woe of Revelation (Muhammad first Woe of Revelation) • When 1,260 years have elapsed from the religion of the Arabian. Hushidar will appear and the Iranians will kill him. AD 622-1844 Muslim Era (AH 1-1260), andThis one would be Baha'u'llah or the Third Woe of Revelation • A thousand two hundred and some years…from the inception of the religion of the Arabian and the overthrow of the kingdom of Iran and the degradation of the followers of My religion, a descendant of the Iranian kings will be raised up as a Prophet. There are many many more! Coincidence? Regards Tony

[@BradSexson]

koran and the zoromaster is wrong and of satan ...............I said my piece koran is pagan and zoroaster is pagan

[@danward4170]

Zoroaster

[@azcactus2008]

Brad Sexson I guess that makes Christ a pagan too, because the followers of Zoroaster are the ones who saw Christ's star to track him down to worship, according to the scripture of Zoroaster. How do you explain that?

[@belojo2003]

Wow, I wonder how people still misleading by that. Ellen White contradicted scriptures when she said Jesus wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of holies while Heb 9:12 and Heb 6:19 and Heb 10:21 clearly states that Jesus went in the Most Holy place once for all compared to the High Priest in the Old Testament that went in there once every year. See, people prefer the writings and visions of Ellen White over Scriptures. Get your Bible and see if what the Investigative judgement of the 7th day Adventist (Ellen White) tells you is true. Anyone who can read, don't need a teacher to explain these scriptures to you. - Look how the author in the book of Hebrews was drawing a comparison of the Old Covenant or Testament High Priests with the New Covenant High Priest (Christ): A)- Hebrews 6:6-8 "Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. " Notice in the text above how only the Old Covenant High Priest can enter in the Most Holy Place once per year. And the Author explains that the way of Most Holy place was not open while the first tabernacle standing. That tells you once the first tabernacle ceases in its function, the way of the Most Holy Place is available. Again, look at how the author describe when the Old Covenant High priest going in the Most Holy Place once per year as a shadow of Christ who is to go once for all. -Hebrews 6:11-15 "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come,[a] with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." NOTICE in the text Hebrews 6:11-15 how Jesus came as a High Priest (not in the manner of the Priest who can enter only in the first part of the sanctuary), Christ entered in the Most Holy Place as High Priest but once for all since He is greater than the Old Covenant System. HOW CAN ADVENTISTS (Ellen White) and HER FOLLOWERS SAY CHRIST WAIT UNTIL 1844 TO GO FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE MOST HOLY PLACE. I HAVE MORE TEXTS THAT PROVE THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT IS FALSE. READ BELOW. B)- Hebrews 10:21 "Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, " NOTICE in Heb.10:21, how can sinner as us (established priests by Christ) go in the Most Holy Place at the time the author of the Book of Hebrews was writing while Christ the High Priest did not go there yet until 1844. That's not how the Old Covenant sacrificial system functioned. That does not make any sense. C)- Hebrews 6:19-20 "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." NOTICE in Hebrews 6:19-20, if 7th day Adventist really knew their Bible as they claim, they would figure out "WHAT WAS BEHIND THE CURTAIN, or THE INNER SANCTUARY"--> That's the Most Holy Place CONCLUSION: 7th day Adventists have so much problem when it comes of the book of Hebrews, they say that Christ went in there in 1844 to cleanse the Sanctuary that was defiled when He went to Heaven bearing the sins of men. That means Christ is the little of horn in the book of Daniel defiling the temple. Now, 7th Day Adventists have more problem because when we look closely at the book of Hebrews, we clearly see that Christ sprinkled the Heavenly Sanctuary with His Blood when He established the New Covenant just as Moses sprinkled Blood to the Earthly Tabernacle. Let us read: Hebrew 9: 17- "16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. 23Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another- 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." HOPEFULLY, THE 7TH DAY ADVENTISTS FOLLOW SCRIPTURES INSTEAD OF ELLEN WHITE WRITINGS INCLUDING THE FALSE TEACHING 1844

[@tonybristow-stagg2723]

+belojo2003 As noted below - 1844 AD is the year 1260 AH . The 1260 is not about 1798. This is a false assumption. It discounts the coming of Islam and the lunar calendar intersection of 1260 AH, the declaration of the Bab. Also, 1280 AH is 1863, the year of the declaration of Baha'u'llah. This same year of 1280 AH (1863) is also exactly 1290 years after the public declaration of Muhammad. Thus, all three numbers from Daniel point to the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, as well as confirming the religion of Muhammad, as the starting point of these prophecies, and their fulfillment together with 2300 = 1844 = 1260. An open mind is required to see this.

[@belojo2003]

Tony Bristow-Stagg Are you serious? YOu talking about open mind. Do you have an open mind to see that Christ did not wait 1844 to go in the Most Holy Place??? Did you red the texts I provided you with open mind??? According to Adventists, the 2300 days began in 457 BC and ended in 1844 AD. During this time period the little horn of Daniel 8 is supposed to be "treading underfoot" the sanctuary. According to SDA teaching, this began with pagan Rome treading underfoot the earthly sanctuary, and then later became papal Rome treading underfoot the heavenly sanctuary. This presents a whole host of dilemmas: Rome did not have any contact with the Jewish nation until 161 BC. How could the little horn have begun its desecrating work in 457 BC, 296 years before it even came into contact with the Jewish state? Rome had no part whatsoever in the activities of 457 BC and thus could not possibly be the "little horn" described in Daniel 8. Rome lived peacefully with the Jewish nation and did not even molest the Jews until after Palestine became a part of the Roman Empire in 63 BC. How could the little horn be "trampling underfoot" the Sanctuary for nearly 400 years when it never even interfered with the sanctuary service during that time period? If Papal Rome is the little horn of Daniel 8 during the latter part of the 2300 days, then what happened to papal Rome on October 22, 1844? Did the Papacy suddenly stop defiling the Sanctuary in 1844? Was it "broken without hand" (vs. 25) in 1844? Why is there no event in papal history to coincide with the end of the 2300 days? Did any of the papal activities that Adventists use to identify it as the "little horn" cease in 1844? 1-Did "compulsory unity in a visible church" end in 1844? 2-Did "the authority of a visible head--the pope" end in 1844? 3-Did "a priestly hierarchy" cease in 1844? 4-Did "a system of salvation by works" stop in 1844? 5-Did "the confessional and the sacrifice of the mass" stop in 1844? No. No. No. No. NO! None of the desolating activities of papal Rome ceased in 1844. 2. Are the 2300 days really 2300 years? Dr. Russell Earl Kelly explains: "The odd Hebrew word for days in Daniel 8:14 is not the usual Hebrew word, yom, for day. Instead, it is the Hebrew words, ‘ereb-boqer, meaning “evenings-mornings” which are correctly translated in Daniel 8:26 (even in the KJV). When comparing the KJV, NASU, NIV, and RSV, only the King James Version incorrectly reads “days.” It is important to know that ‘ereb (evening) and boqer (morning) occur 48 times in the KJV as “evening and morning” and only once as “days” -- in Daniel 8:14!" "Since the common Hebrew word for “day,” yom, does not appear in 8:14, this is probably a fundamental flaw in SDA calculations. Why? Because when the sanctuary is being discussed, the couplet, ‘ereb-boqer refers to the two daily sacrifices of the evening and the morning and the total count of days could very easily be calculated as half of 2300, or 1150 actual days."11 Can the so-called year-day principle even be applied to this passage? Dr. Robert Brinsmead writes: There are many instances in Bible prophecy where a day means a day and a year means a year. The Bible prophesied that Abraham's children would be afflicted 400 years and that the Jews would be in captivity 70 years. Here, days are days and years are years. The "seventy weeks" of Daniel 9 cannot prove the year-day principle, because the expression is actually "seventy 'sevens"' (Dan. 9:24 NIV). We know that Daniel 9 is talking about "weeks of years," not "weeks of days," but this knowledge comes from the context, not from the word. The formula "a day for a year" was not used by the New Testament, nor by the early Christians. It was first suggested by a medieval Jewish scholar, and only later adopted by some Christian expositors. It reached its zenith of acceptability in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. ... If proving that a day=a year is beset with difficulties, what shall we say about proving that 2,300 sacrifices equal 2,300 years?12 3. Did the 2300 days begin in 457 BC and end on October 22, 1844? Recent scholarship has cast considerable doubt upon the legitimacy of both the beginning and ending dates of this period. The links at the end of this web page will cover those subjects in greater detail. This section will not focus so much upon the dates, but upon how Seventh-day Adventists are able to connect the vision of Daniel 8 with that of Daniel 9. Seventh-day Adventists makes some very unusual claims about Daniel 8: Gabriel was unable to make Daniel understand the vision--particularly the 2300-day portion of it Gabriel came back later (in Daniel 9) to help Daniel understand the 2300 days Daniel 9 is an expansion upon the subject of Daniel 8 The 70-week prophecy is "cut-off" from the 2300 days, and therefore they have the same starting date First, we will address whether Gabriel failed in his mission to make Daniel understand the vision. William Miller, and subsequently Ellen White, Uriah Smith and other Seventh-day Adventists, in an attempt to link Daniel 8 with Daniel 9, have claimed that Gabriel was sent again to Daniel, 11 years after the vision of Daniel 8, to explain the vision of Daniel 8 again. They claim that the latter part of Daniel 9 is a further explanation of Daniel 8. This teaching is derived from Daniel 8:27: "And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it." First, we need to recognize that the word it is supplied by the translators, and is not in the original Hebrew. Removing the word makes the meaning of the verse ambiguous. "...I was astonished at the vision, but none understood." What does "none understood" refer to? Did no one understand the vision? Or did no one understand Daniel's reaction to the vision? Isaac Lesser, a leading Jewish scholar, renders the verse as follows: "And I Daniel, grieved, and was sick several days: afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was depressed because of the appearance; but no one observed it." It is obvious from this translation that the part about "not understanding" was referring to the people Daniel worked with who did not comprehend why he was ill and depressed. To make the claim that Daniel failed to understand the vision--thus requiring a second visit from Gabriel--one must first assume the angel failed in his first mission. In Daniel 8:16 a voice commands, "Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision." If Daniel was too sick to understand the vision, then why didn't Gabriel touch him and strengthen him in the same manner as Elijah was strengthened by an angel? (1 Kings 19:5-7) And why would Gabriel wait 11 years to return to explain the vision? Why not the next day? If Gabriel failed to make Daniel understand the vision, then he would be disobeying God. Furthermore, it would make Gabriel guilty of practicing deception, because in verse 19 Gabriel tells Daniel, "Behold, I will make thee know what shall be..." Did Gabriel fail? Did he lie to Daniel? If one is a Bible-believing Christian, then one must believe that Gabriel obeyed the command to make Daniel understand the vision, and one must believe Gabriel's own word that he would make Daniel understand. Therefore, there is no reason for Gabriel to return 11 years later to explain a vision that he had already succeeded in explaining! Second, is Daniel 9 an expansion of Daniel 8? It is argued that part of the vision of Daniel 8 pertaining to the vision (Hebrew mar'eh) "of the evening and the morning" (verse 26) was not included in Gabriel's explanation. Hence, Gabriel returned after a very long period of time (11 years) to finish explaining that portion of the vision, which is then recorded by Daniel in chapter 9. The SDA view is that the Hebrew word for "vision" (chazown) is used in Daniel 9:21 and 24, and another word, mar'eh is used in verse 23, and that indicates a link between the "vision" (mar'eh) of Daniel 9:23 and the "vision" (mar'eh) of Daniel 8:26. Their position is that it was the mar'eh of the "evening and morning" which Daniel did not understand and needed Gabriel to return to enlighten him. In Daniel 8 the word English word "vision" is translated from two different Hebrew words: mar'eh and chazown. They differ slightly in meaning, but both refer to the exact same vision when they are used together within the same chapter: "The vision (mar'eh) of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision (chazown), for it shall be for many days." (Dan. 8:26) If Gabriel told Daniel to shut up the vision (chazown), would it not be logical to conclude that when he supposedly returned to explain the vision (mar'eh) in chapter 9, that the vision (chazown) would still be shut up? The SDA view is refuted when we consider that Gabriel went to Daniel at the command of God (or Jesus Christ) who commanded, "Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision (mar'eh)" Dan. 8:16. Yet we are told that this is the very part of the vision (mar'eh) that Daniel did not understand! As discussed above, if this is true then Gabriel failed to obey God! How confusing can it be? SDAs teach that in Dan. 8:26 (first part) the word "vision" (mar'eh) refers to some part of the prophecy in Daniel 8 which would not be explained to Daniel until eleven years later, while the "vision" (chazown) of the same verse (last part) refers to another part of the one complete vision. This interpretation makes no sense whatsoever! What is the truth? In chapter 9 we find that Daniel had been studying Jeremiah's prophecy regarding the Jews' 70-year captivity in Babylon: I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. (Daniel 9:2) Jeremiah had prophesied: For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. (Jer. 29:10) Daniel understood that the 70-year vision of Jeremiah was nearly complete. Daniel was pleading with God for the restoration of Jerusalem and the Sanctuary (9:17-18). The angel Gabriel was sent in response to Daniel's prayer: At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. When Gabriel instructed Daniel to "consider the vision" (Dan. 9:23), Gabriel was either referring to Jeremiah's 70-year vision, or else he was telling Daniel to consider the vision that he was about to give him. Either way, Gabriel was not referring to a vision that happened 11 years earlier, a vision that he had already explained, a vision that he had already told Daniel to seal up! Gabriel proceeds to describe to Daniel a 7-fold period of 70-years (490 years) that would pronounced upon the Jewish people. In direct answer to Daniel's prayer, Gabriel describes the "city" and the "sanctuary" (Dan. 9:26). There is nothing in Daniel 9 about the little horn power or the 2300 days of Daniel 8. Third, is the 70-week prophecy "cut off" from the 2300-day prophecy? It is claimed that the use of the word "determined" in the text which reads, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city" (Dan. 9:24), means that the 70 weeks (490 years) are cut off from a much longer period of time, namely the 2300 years. The words "determine" and "determined" are defined in Young's Analytical Concordance to mean: "To mark out beforehand, to say, to be determined, to give counsel, to take counsel, to loose thereupon, to judge/decide, to arrange, to determine/move sharply/be cut off, to place/set/put, to complete/finish/determine." It is poor exegesis to consider only one meaning of a word in an effort to establish a doctrinal foundation when it is quite evident, as in this case, that the word "determined" has a variety of meanings. The most evident meaning is that God had decreed or determined a certain period of time, beyond which the Jewish nation would cease to be recognized as His holy people. If the 490 years are to be cut off from some other time period, then why the 2300 evening-mornings? Why not cut it off from the 1260-day prophecy, or the 1290-day prophecy or the 1335-day prophecy? How do we know the 70-week prophecy is not cut out of the middle or the end of the 2300-year prophecy? The reason William Miller cut the 70-week prophecy off of the 2300-day prophecy was because he needed a starting point for his 2300-year prophecy. There is no starting date given in the Bible, so Miller tied it to the 70-week prophecy in order to get a starting date for the 2300 years. Of course, it makes absolutely no sense to begin the 2300-day prophecy in 457 BC because the sanctuary was not desolated until hundreds of years later. 4. Is the sanctuary of Daniel 8:13-14 the heavenly sanctuary? 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Notice the question: "How long shall...the sanctuary...be trodden under foot?" The answer is 2300 days (evenings-mornings). This puts the Seventh-day Adventists in a dilemma, because they insist that the sanctuary being "cleansed" in verse 14 is the heavenly sanctuary. However, accorinding to their own calculations, the papacy did not arrive until after 476 AD--nearly a millennium after the 2,300 years started! Who was trampling the sanctuary for 934 years before the rise of the papacy? Seventh-day Adventists claim that "Imperial Rome" trampled the earthly temple in 70 AD when it was destroyed by Roman armies, but that was the earthly, not the heavenly temple. If the sanctuary is the heavenly sanctuary in verse 14, then how could it be the earthly sanctuary in verse 13, since verse 13 is a question being answered in verse 14? The truth is that there has never in human history been a 2300-year period where the sanctuary in heaven (or on earth) was trodden under foot. This fact alone should prove that the SDA interpretation does not fit historical facts, and is therefore invalid. Dr. Kelly points out another contradiction in the SDA time-line: "When do SDAs teach that the heavenly sanctuary first became defiled? Follow this trail. Since SDAs teach that, in 1844, Christ began investigating the list of professed believers, beginning with Adam, then their logic demands that the heavenly sanctuary first became defiled with the very first sin forgiven by God in Genesis 3:21. (See GC480, 483, 644.) When the LORD (Yahweh) forgave Adam, He must have begun His ministry as mediator inside the heavenly sanctuary and, therefore (as SDAs claim) defiled it. Ellen White states in The Great Controversy, page 421, “In the New Covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary.” Therefore Christ’s blood (SDAs teach) causes the greatest defilement of the sanctuary!"13 So the defilement of the sanctuary--the defilement from which it must be "cleansed" (verse 14)--was caused by the blood of Jesus, and actually began thousands of years before 457 BC. If we were to take SDA logic to its final conclusion, working backwards from verse 14, here is what we would discover: The cleansing of the sanctuary began in 1844 The sanctuary is being cleansed from the defilement of the sins of the righteous, which were "placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary". Since the sins of the righteous were brought into the sanctuary by Christ, the high priest, he is the instigator of the defilement Thus, Christ must be the little horn power that desolates the sanctuary! It is no wonder that so many SDA pastors and professors are loath to teach or even discuss this doctrine as it is a convoluted mess beyond comprehension!

[@BradSexson]

why dont you listen better and talk less!

[@BradSexson]

not one thing did you say was Biblical fact

[@BradSexson]

both of you are willfully ignorant

[@tonymuse]

Unfortunately, instead of William Miller simply admitting that he had misapplied the day/year principle in his predicting Jesus' return in 1843/1844 , they simply rolled it into a fictitious event ignoring the fact that Jesus has been in the most holy place ever since He ascended into heaven. This theory of Miller's also rejects the idea that Jesus' work of atonement was finished at the cross. The entire book of Daniel can be summed up in the Daniel 2:20-22: _Daniel said, “Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, For wisdom and power belong to Him. “It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding. “It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him._ This book is about the setting up and removal of kingdoms culminating with the coming of Jesus Christ who is the rock who's kingdom is eternal. It is so sad to see SDA's totally turn their back on fulfilled prophecy in order to perpetuate a horrible misinterpretation of scripture. The prophecies of Daniel 8 and Daniel 9 have nothing to do with each other contextually. Chapter 9 concerns the Jews returning from exile, rebuilding the temple, a designated period for finishing up transgression and sacrifice, the coming of the Messiah, Him being crucified and the eventual destruction of the temple which Jesus talked about in the Olivet discourse. Chapter 8 is all contained within the empires of Media-Persia and Greece/divided Greece. The little horn comes from one of the four horns and comes in the later period of their (divided Greece) rule as stated in verse 23. Rome never was part of the Greek Empire so this cannot apply to the pope or Rome. Blessings!

[@7ashoBeam]

"none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. " Dan 12:10 That might help to explain the reason some do not understand the prophecy of Dan 8:44

[@tonymuse]

@@7ashoBeam So, are you are asserting that Doug B. and the SDA's are the wise and the simple teaching iof this prophecy is wrong?

[@7ashoBeam]

@@tonymuse Williams Miller's mistake was also prophecied so if you wish for that to be explained please let me know.

[@tonymuse]

@@7ashoBeam Miller specifically or all false prophets?

[@7ashoBeam]

@@tonymuse Miller's prophecy specifically!

[@michael_toms]

I tell you the truth William Miller was onto something. October 22 1844 falls to far from the Autumnal Equinox. It was first thought His glorious day would appear in the fall of 1843 around the autumnal equinox. There were those who countered the truth behind Miller's understanding of prophetic time. That was the rise twenty years before with Darbyism and its dispensationalist teachings. One needs to sincerely read through the findings of the Swiss astronomer Jean Lloyd Phillippe de Cheseaux (18th century) astronomical findings. It is correct that this is a span of 2300 years from the issuing of the decree. Once you have read that, then pick up a book by E.W. Bullinger 'Witness of the Stars' reading the last chapter. Bullinger was a ultra dispensationalist. His book reveals as do many other books on the gospel in the stars conclude the story ending in the constellation Leo. With use of the Stellarium star atlas you can view Leo and its main star Regulus greeting autumn colure. The Autumn Colure is the point in the sky where the ecliptic and the celestial equator meet. This event completes another 2300 year solar-lunar cycle (Daniel cycle as de Chesheaux describes) from the "the Great Disappointment" from the Fall of 1843. In Bullinger's book shares the star-lore of Leo the Lion will ROAR, destroying that serpent of old. The serpent is Hydra that is underneath Leo. What I see happen here is the fall of 1843 is the event of the time of end leading up to the 'end of time' when the lion of Judah will 'crush the head of the serpent'. This was a discovery for me back in March of 2017. For the bible student concluding the 2300 prophetic time as literal days. Surely those four empires could not of fallen into such a time. Bullinger's book tries to reconcile the two thoughts of literal time and the day for a year understanding in prophecy. He was a believer in Jesus the Christ without bias to Miller himself. be blessed for the time is nigh. Michael

[@MichiMind]

What truth? Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f

[@danielkim240]

I hope SDA leaders understand that the first disappointment in spring of 1844 was the true end of 2300 years prophecy.

[@MichiMind]

Gentiles gentiles was not this given to the Jews? Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is TRUE: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Here is correction for the wise www.evernote.com/shard/s421/sh/8ce361c9-d528-43d2-878c-e617e93af70d/e2d828adf4bc0f377f0d2e452a9fae1f