1979 Holden Commodore vs Euro Vauxhall and Opel lead to much confusion!

In today's episode we go down a rabbit hole and get all confused looking at the Australian Holden VB Commodore!
Is it a Opel Senator (A) or maybe a Vauxhall Royal / Opel Commodore, maybe a Opel Rekord E, or Vauxhall Carlton.
Confusing times and a relation to them all, strengthened with bigger engines ?
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/ @quarterlight
#Holden, #Holden Commodore, #Opel Senator, #Vauxhall Royall, #Opel rekord E, #Car brochure

[@obesetuna3164]

Having lived in Australia back then, this model was a big departure from the Kingswood. Although the Opel/Vauxhall influence was always obvious, during the launch, it was hailed on television to much fanfare as an entirely indigenous design. The same can be said for the "new" Falcon of the late seventies. Although in this case it really was larger, and mechanically, a very different car in comparison to the square Granada that was. From a distance at least, they looked rather similar. Initially, the Commodore got a lukewarm reception. The Falcon overtook it in sales.

[@quarterlight]

Appreciate your knowledge thank you for commenting

[@jb7591]

Commodore was an instant sales winner it took foulcan until 1982 to outsell it when the fuel crisis averted.

[@jamesfrench7299]

Australian companies have a habit of passing off overseas designs as local.

[@damiand4835]

I’m watching from Brisbane Australia . My father was working for advertising agency In Melbourne George Patterson’s who had the Holden account 1970’s 1980’s . My dad was involved with art advertising . He did the line drawings illustrations for the VB VC Holden commodores Gemini’s kingswoods for the brochures, news paper ads . Dealer kits . To this day I still have the all the original line art . George Patterson’s Agency designed and produced the advertising brochures .

[@quarterlight]

Aw how wonderful I have so much respect and admiration for the artists involved in earlier brochures

[@albertbekassy2709]

I bougt a sad 1983 Opel Senator back in 2012. I just had to fix it to save it. It was a very nice car, but I sold it after a few years to a German who brought it home, back to Germany.

[@jb7591]

A remarkable effort by Holden, to graft the senator front onto the rekord body and re-engineer the chassis not only to accept local 6's & V8's but to cope with outback roads not seen in Europe. At the time downsizing was a trend in response to the 70's fuel crisis but history recalls that crisis was averted, and Australians went back to their desire to have a larger vehicle. The base motor on VB SL/E was the 4.2 V8 with the 5 litre V8 being optional.

[@mattw8332]

I'd say that the Holden Commodore was more like the Vauxhall Viceroy with the Carlton/Rekord body and the Royale/Senator front end styling.

[@quarterlight]

It was indeed related to but not exactly the same

[@gaufrid1956]

You are right to say that the 1979 Holden Commodore was basically an Opel Rekord/Vauxhall Carlton with the Senator/Royale nose. As someone else commented here, it was such a departure from Holden's previous large car, the Kingswood, that, despite the Wheels Magazine Car of the Year award, the reception from the car buying public was lukewarm to say the least. The Ford Falcon outsold it. I'd say that the perception was that it was smaller and too European. Holden's Radial Tuned Suspension had been around for a few years on the Torana range, I think. You could compare the difference between the old Kingswood range and the Commodore to being as much of a shock as the difference between the Ford Cortina and the Sierra that replaced it. The Commodore Wagon was only introduced in mid-1979, while the sedans were introduced in 1978. Holden could not source a long wheelbase version at the time. As a result, they had to source Opel Rekord wagon sheet metal from Germany, and graft it onto the longer nose of the sedans. The lack of a long wheelbase version also meant that Holden needed to continue to sell the old Kingswood based utes and vans, and the stretched versions of the Kingswood, the Statesman and Statesman Caprice, which sold against Ford's Fairlane and LTD models. I noticed in the brochure the next car mentioned was the Holden Sunbird. It had a European 1.9 litre four cylinder engine. Holden also introduced the same engine, called the "Starfire" on the Commodore a year later. I remember being a passenger in a Holden Sunbird. It was painfully slow. The Commodore was larger and heavier, so would have been a real snail. Both of those vehicles had to be driven so hard that it was almost impossible to get better fuel economy than the same cars with six cylinder engines. The reason Holden did this was because there was a massive hike in the price of oil, and hence petrol, at the time.

[@quarterlight]

Thank you for sharing some Aussie car knowledge - very useful

[@musicbill101]

My NZ uncle had a brand new SL/E VB Commodore back in 1980. It was a 3.3 litre 6 cylinder but was equiped with power windows, electric raising radio antenna, 15” alloy wheels with 195/60R15 tyres. (60 profile series tyres as original equipment was very rare back then). The VB to the VH models lacked the extra rear quarter light, it was until the VK model circa 1983 that it acquired them across the model range.

[@philip4193]

Yeah, the colour-matched interiors of these Commodores were pretty wild, particularly by today's standards where all vehicle interiors are generally a bland grey or black regardless of the exterior colour. Owned a 1980 VC Commodore L 2.85L six with a light blue vinyl interior, and later an '83 VH Commodore SL/X 4.2L V8 with the plush green velour interior, but drove a couple of rentals with the red interior also. In Australia these early Commodores are now considered collector cars, with even very rough examples fetching big dollars due to the pent-up demand for them by the resto-mod market.

[@shaun30-3-mg9zs]

The Holden Commodore is more in common with the Vauxhall Viceroy, which was in the middle of a Carlton and Royale. The Viceroy had the front of the Royale and the rear of the Carlton giving you the Commodore, the Royale had a different and bigger rear end. The Viceroy came with a 6 cylinder 2.5 litre engine as the Carltons came with a 1.8 and 2.0 4 cylinder engine. Good review on the Holden Commodore. If you want more information on Australian cars watch Mark Behr's channel. Great video Take care

[@carsnstuff83]

The First Generation Holden Commodore and, as said, very much based on the Opel and Vauxhal Where the first things that holden engineers soon discovered that the Opel designed and made cars would not stand up to the Australian road conditions and had to almost redesign and strengthen for the car to be able to pass the Australian road test. The VB COMMODORE or project V was one of the biggest changes that Holden under took since the first Holden 48-215 was made. I still think these V Cars were a great Australian made Holden with European styling

[@quarterlight]

Great comment - that really does sum them up

[@jamesfrench7299]

They certainly bolstered Holden's staid image, even though it was mainly skin deep. They were lucky (like Ford) to have access to other GM subsidiary resources.

[@Dominic-mm6yf]

Resembles the Vauxhall Viceroy.

[@quarterlight]

It does!

[@jimbojon2]

Holden released the smaller (than Kingswood) Commodore as a response to the oil price shocks of the early 70's and people were looking towards smaller and more fuel efficient alternatives. Initially the Commodore did cause quite a stir as it brought European flair / design philosophies to a company that was generally conservative and lent towards American ideals from a design perspective. Unfortunately, Holden did not have the ability to introduce more efficient engines to capitalize on the newer smaller vehicle so the engine line up from the larger Kingswood (being dated power plants already) were retained and the fuel economy advantage of the smaller Commodore was marginal at best. Ford Australia stayed with the larger Falcon range, while being a little more cruder than the Commodore from an engineering / design perspective, Ford engineers gradually chipped away at it and improved it's fuel efficiency to the point where it was just as economical & in some cases better than the smaller Commodore. Prospective purchasers realized that they could buy a larger car for the same money that was just as economical to run so the choice was made to go with Falcon. Furthermore, by the late 70's Holden had been the number one seller in Australia for several decades and had become somewhat fat and complacent (why try harder when you're already number 1), after decades of being number 2, Ford Australia were hungry to be number 1 and were "out for blood" with aggressive sales and marketing campaigns that Holden couldn't match. Ford Australia's efforts paid off as they became the number 1 seller in 1981 and held that title for most of the 80's.

[@quarterlight]

Thank you for taking the time to comment this knowledgeable comment

[@lesklower7281]

That all red interior on the Comadore SL/E no thanks the cream interior much better my VC Commodore was metallic blue with a blue interior and there was a metallic green with a green interior

[@LevyHappyClapper]

I had a VH sle 5.0 dark blue/silver "shadowtone" it had the dark blue velour interior ... looked killer

[@paulfromperth5713]

I had both the sedan and wagon of the first Commodores. They were terrible.

[@quarterlight]

Thank you for sharing your experience

[@csjames69]

The Holden VB Commodore was stylistically very similar to the Opel Commodore which as you point out is a Rekord with a longer nose. Both Commodores had the straight six. Holden had the 2850cc and 3300cc straight six while the Opel I believe had the 2600cc Opel straight six. The six window styling of the Senator/Royale eventually made it to the VK Commodore released in 1984. Holden introduced the VB Commodore as it’s mainstream big sedan believing that the Australian public wanted a smaller family car. In fact, Holden were wrong with sales leadership being lost to the bigger Ford Falcon. By 1989, Holden returned to the full size family sedan with the VN Commodore, rivaling the EA Ford Falcon. History repeating.

[@kimallen4132]

The 1978 Opel Senator saloon and Monza Coupe were the first production cars to feature smoked rear light lenses, very cool! 😎

[@mordeth1964]

They could have been good cars other than anaemic 30 yo boat anchors, 20 yo manuals and rubbish 3 speed autos under the bonnet and McPherson strut front suspension and mountings that would self destruct if it even saw a corrugated road. And ignore any narrative about Brock et al winning the Marlboro Around Australia Reliability Trial in them; they were so heavily modified they really only resembled the production model.

[@Steven-p4j]

Opel sent one of their cars to the Holden test track, and during testing the vehicle actually snapped in half. The Germans had no idea of the types of road conditions which it would need to deal with.

[@quarterlight]

Wow

[@Steven-p4j]

@@quarterlight The German engineers actually became very angry, accusing Australians of not knowing how to drive correctly. Such a foolish position to take. The Commodore in its initial guise wasn't a tremendous success, losing out to the Ford Australia offering, which was a traditionally large car, with greater power. The Ford XD model. Knowing both vehicles, the Commodore felt like a pencil to drive, being narrow and long, while the Ford was a more handsome and sure-footed beast

[@giuliopedrali4794]

For example the 1966 Vauxhall Viva was much better than Opel Kadett

[@billeves4627]

Notice how the Royal has an extra side window in the C pillar. This didn't appear on the Commodore until the VK in 1983.

[@jamesfrench7299]

84 actually and an off the shelf differentiation feature.

[@berlina683]

Why is the Opel Commodore (1978-1982) not mentioned..?

[@quarterlight]

Absolutely fair point - another relation which was also called the Vauxhall Viceroy which was mentioned.

[@insceman8515]

A good friend of mine worked for Opel then Vauxhall when the brands were amalgamated in uk late 70s and 80s. He had Opel Commodore “C” 2.5S (6 cyl carb 115 hp) and 2.5E (6 cyl injection 130 hp) as company cars. He Then had Vauxhall Viceroy which was effectively the lower 2.5S spec. These were the 2.0 Rekord “E” / Carlton with 2.5 6 cyl engine and the Senator / Royale front end. The Holdens were essentially the same car but with bigger engine options. The exterior, interior and dashboard are virtually identical. The Commodore and Viceroy didn’t sell well in UK as the engine whilst smooth was not much better in performance than the 2.0 but was very thirsty. No such problems in Australia. 👍

[@jamesmcgowen1769]

The Commodore body was guaranteed for 5 years not to rust, but once that time period expired they would develop rust directly in front of the windscreen, and directly behind the rear window.

[@quarterlight]

Sounds about right.

[@AndyK.1]

Think some of our UK senators were 2.5 litre.

[@markrl75]

The early cars with the 2.5 engines were marketed as Vauxhall Viceroys (basically a right hand drive Opel Commodore) the later cars were badged Vauxhall Senator 2.5.

[@billmago7991]

big difference is the Aussie commodore got the 4.2 and the 5ltr V8 engines. A 5ltr VL Commodore driven by Alan Moffat and John Harvey won the opening round of the inaugral World Touring Car Championship at Monza . The car finished 7th behind all the factory BMWs. A privateer had noticed during scrutineering his BMW was 80 kgs heavier than the factory cars.The factory BMWs were disqualified for running carbon fibre panels and the victory was handed to the mighty Aussie Holden VL Commodore ......also a VB Commodore with an XU1 tuned ( triple sd webbers, roller rockers big cam extractors HC pistons, a real fire breather ) 3.3 ltr straight 6 won the around Australia Rally 1979 driven by Peter Brock beating a lot of euro and japanese cars........The VB Commy gained 1st, 2nd and 3rd place 💪💪🇭🇲🇭🇲🇭🇲🇭🇲🇭🇲👍👍

[@quarterlight]

Wonderful

[@TassieLorenzo]

Mechanically, the 1978 Holden Commodore used the old-fashioned non-crossflow Holden pushrod inline-six engines. These weren't that competitive in 1978 and only got less competitive. Eventually they were replaced, as an interim measure, with bought-in Nissan RB30 SOHC inline-six engines in the updated 1986 "VL" Commodore. After that, the next generation VN Commodore in 1990 used the venerable Buick 3800 pushrod V6. It's kind of odd that Holden and Opel didn't collaborate on a unified inline-six, but who knows why that was! The Lotus Carlton did, however, use the rear differential from the Holden Commodore SS Group A (the Commodore Group A using the Holden pushrod V8 engine, which was developed much further than the Holden inline-six -- in some ways it even had advantages over the Chevrolet small block V8 like the Holden's evenly spaced exhaust ports). Ford Australia developed their (or Ford's) inline-six much further compared to Holden, developing a crossflow cylinder head, then a SOHC head, a DOHC VVT head in the Barra and so on. 🙂

[@quarterlight]

Great info and very knowledgeable comment - appreciate your time.

[@jb7591]

Local content regulations meant there was never any chance of Holden using anything other than local mechanicals.

[@saxongreen78]

That old Red (Black, Blue) motor was an antique farm implement even in 1971 when HQ arrived - the absolute CHEEK that GMH had when they turbo charged it and fitted it to the top spec Calais was astonishing! Woeful engine, and when put beside the Nissan, Chrysler and Ford sixes it was an abject embarrassment with its cardboard timing gear and 1930s head design.

[@big5944]

This was a nice comparison of all the corresponding models. The Australian Commodore was actually based on the Opel Commodore which had a 2.5 six-cylinder engine in Europe, While the Opel Rekord came with different 4-cylinders and the senator with a 3 litre six. The equivalent Vauxhall models were Carlton, Viceroy and Royale. However, for top "nerdiness" there were also the Daewoo Prince models from south Korea in their many iterations. Another fun fact is that Daewoo did continue with this platform well into the 90's albeit heavily redesigned. Btw, do you have any Daewoo brochures in your collection?

[@quarterlight]

I do but I don’t have the Prince

[@Bonzoguy66]

Opel actually made a Commodore , between the Opel Record E and the Senator . Think it had 2.5 and 2.8 engines

[@quarterlight]

They did and I should have mentioned this although they share the same name as the Holden they are not the same car. The Opel Commodore is the same as the Vauxhall Viceroy

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@quarterlight was it inspired by Australia's Commodore as far as introducing that car to slot in between Senator and Rekord?

[@mikerobo2112]

C25xe

[@jamesfrench7299]

Basically Opels with outdated fuel guzzling emission choked engines and outdated paint application.

[@LevyHappyClapper]

5.0 v8 better than the Opel engines ... especially with a bit of Brock work

[@davidb1630]

Interesting fact, when they brought a Rekkord over for evaluation and testing they broke the firewalls in half. The whole front end had to be strengthened and that's when they decided to use the best of all the range available. So they used the Commodore you saw, the VB and then in 1981 they changed and the C pillar garnish was replaced with a senator window. They changed the front grill two more times until 1986 when they replaced the Australian 6 cyl for a Nissan 2.6 lt engine and whacked a turbo on it and it became the last iteration named the VL.

[@quarterlight]

That is interesting- thank you for commenting

[@saxongreen78]

There was also a DAEWOO version - it was a strange commixture of components from Korea, Europe and Australia...it ended production in the 1990s. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Royale

[@stefanstraninger2106]

To make it even more complicated, there was also an Opel Commodore: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Commodore_C

[@quarterlight]

Absolutely and of course the Opel Commodore c was the Vauxhall Viceroy in the UK

[@nickyboy.]

1st

[@davidthomas9]

My part of Australia (Melbourne) brought in restrictions for probationary licence holders back in the early 90's, banning them from driving high-powered cars using a power-weight ratio calculation. This meant that young drivers (usually 18-21) were banned from driving Commodores with the 5 litre V8, but Commodores with the 4.2 V8 were allowed. This meant that the 4.2 Commodores were suddenly very desirable with young drivers as they were the only V8 Commodores they were allowed to drive. Also meant that most ended up being written-off at the hands of said young drivers. This also affected the 6 cylinder Cortinas, base model Cortinas with the larger 4.1 6 were banned, but Ghias with the 4.1 engine were allowed given the Ghias were a heavier car. These also became desirable as a result & it's why there's not a lot of survivors.

[@quarterlight]

Thank you for commenting - very interesting info

[@twentyrothmans7308]

Thanks, David, never knew that. I dodged those regulations (I guess mirrored in NSW). In my gap year, my boss had both the 4.2 and 5.0 SL/Es, which I had to ferry here and there. The 4.2 felt a little more eager than the 5.0, but these were sprints up to 50 mph, and the 5 might have been heavier with extra equipment. I had an LJ, and if I'd had the money, a 4.2 would have been exciting. Thanks to him, I was able to redline a Daimler Double 6, and bought one when I could afford it.

[@anthonyperkins7556]

Very similar to each other being GM cars.

[@quarterlight]

Yes

[@MohdjesriOthman-oi1id]

nice too see this holden commodore models, this a product of gm motor, this best model that time, in Australia now how many left models left in Australia now

[@marcinhokowalski9944]

Super. Pozdrawiam. Poland. Polska.