2 Bards, different songs, What happens?! | FFXIV Mythbusters

[@someguy7507]

hate that mammoth boss, some times it just stun locks someone for half the fight

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

"YOU in particular don't get to play today!" The most fun boss mechanic in ffxiv! 😂

[@pedroscoponi4905]

It's especially funny to me when it happens to a black mage. "No, not a single GCD allowed from you, go lie down"

[@SamoyedSagas]

I've been stun locked so many times from that boss. No matter what role I play he seems to always go after me. 😭

[@Pandaxtor]

WoW has a similar mechanic on a boss and yes it very bullshit when it target the healer twice. This 95% of the time kills the healer and the fight wipes because you need the healer to heal against the constant "raid wide" damage. Also the boss auto attack is a tank buster. Tank won't be living for long without a healer.

[@Khemrikhara]

Reminds me of my most hated trial, battle on the big bridge... spending the entire fight as a chicken is so fun... yeah ha ha. great. and when he turns the entire party into chickens or mini so it takes even longer to finish? truly inspired

[@KingCloudsCape]

I like to imagine that the ffxiv devs are watching this and taking notes, trying to understand more deeply the spaghetti code they've been saddled with

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That would be lovely, since then we also get these things fixed! 😄

[@2gunmore]

12:26 eureka actually doesnt normalize gear. its best in some activities in eureka to actually equip a level 1 weapon when stripping naked to get the minimum stats.

[@zerokyuuni]

Just a note about Greased Lightning, (current) Huton, Ley Lines, and Presence of Mind, as well as any I may have forgotten. They ARE haste buffs, same as Bozja and Eureka gear. Haste, despite displaying on gear as +X, is actually a -X stat as it does REDUCE a stat, specifically it reduces your GCD. The change from - to + was because players were confused on why gear gave them a "negative"

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that does make sense. I suppose having the full explanation on the haste gear would be overwhelming, since all of the buffs we have simply explain exactly how they work! 😊

[@Quirinus1984]

One thing that came to mind on Bozja normalisation: I always equipped a low level 1-handed weapon + shield on White Mage, as I believe it grants a (small) chance to block (some maybe miniscule amount of damage). But due to normalisation, this is still a gain.

[@apljack]

Things I learned, having played since the late HW days.... The Mammoth Rout is a stack. o.O I had always wondered WTF you were supposed to do if the healer just happened to be unlucky and got hit with everything. As a tank I would toss what mitigation I could at them. As the healer being hit, I would try to have shields up first. Never knowing it was a stack on the Rout before, it suddenly makes sense and doesn't feel as completely unfair as it did. XD

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed! It is however, completely absurd all the stuns are just meant to work like that! 😂

[@raventhorX]

Never thought that was a stack. They really need to change the indicator to make that clear.

[@apljack]

@@raventhorX Most definitely. Especially since I know they have markers that work perfectly well for that, such as E12, during the memory transition. A line with arrow pointing in and such.

[@seriodenoyarohi7403]

5:37 You Fogot Zoe "Increases healing magic potency of your next healing spell by 50%."

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Fair point, I guess I didn't consider it because it both says healing magic potency, and specifies healing spell. But you are right it also counts! 😁 (meaning that even if it had said all healing, it would still only had applied itself to a healing spell making that detail redundant!)

[@underdarkness7692]

I just found a myth that I'm going to test myself but might be a good candidate for a future video - I just heard a myth that "the preorder XP bonus earring is essentially worthless now, because bosses aren't considered mobs for the purposes of XP gain, so the earring doesn't boost them after all the XP was moved from dungeon mobs to bosses." (with a bonus claim that it also doesn't affect exp from Bozja - though i haven't levelled with Bozja so I'm not clear if mob kills in Bozja even grant XP at *all* or only if FATEs/CEs do anyway) Edit: Tested the boss theory - it's wrong, as you'd expect, I did it by just switching azeyma's earring on and off on my DRK between boss encounters in a trust.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm glad to hear that you went and tested it. 😊 I have talked about this concept previously in a mythbuster video, because the fact that the pre-order earrings quietly leave out the part they only give exp for defeating enemies actually means that they don't boost exp from fates or roulettes and so on, but they do certainly boost exp from bosses in dungeons, as you tested! The particularly funny result of this is that the exp boost on the bozja earring doesn't work in bozja. I talk about all this in this other video 😊 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ_aoId6Za5jmJIsi=C1pqCwvG36_56CeI

[@alloounou6900]

I was doing Dusk Vigil the other day on astrologian. That boss stunned me for every single hit. I had just enough time to get myself with an oGCD to avoid dying before being immediately stun combo'd again.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

"you get ONE essential dignity!"

[@Cloud7050]

2:00 If you are helping soak the line AoE as tank, you can stand in the boss hitbox to wait for it. Shift a little to be in the AoE when it appears, and let it snapshot. Then you can move back into your usual tanking position. The knockback direction is based on where you're standing when the damage happens, so this way you and the target are flung in different directions. The boss doesn't move out of position as much.

[@orillian8023]

Actually, one of those mechanics in dusk vigil (90% sure its the stun, but it could be the knockback) only go off if the person targeted by them takes damage, a lucky crit adlo can stop the chain stun.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That does not surprise me! A lot of mechanics are like that after all!

[@Doleoh]

A funny interaction with the Towering Oliphant that was using rout on my friend. As a paladin, I stood next to them, but outside the telegraphed zone, and use cover on my friend. Since I took the damage, I ate the knockback, while my friend remained in place. weeeeeee

[@idaret.]

Byakko interaction doesnt seem too weird, diamondback seems to be stun and Byakko just removes all kinds of stuns from you

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is an interesting interpretation I suppose, and it does make it make sense! I do find it weird that diamondback interacts this way specifically simply because I would've expected the effect to just disappear the moment he grabbed you! 😅

[@no00ob]

I think this is the answer, I am like 90% sure you're correct. Diamondback is probably indeed just handled internally as a stun, since diamondback behaves the exact same way as all stuns, blocks all actions and freezes you in place and Byakko just happens to remove all stun type effects which then includes diamondback.

[@phiefer3]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh If I had to guess, I imagine that despite the animation and camera suggesting otherwise, that when Byakko picks you up, your character's position is still considered the same place on the ground, until he slams you down. This would explain diamondback staying active while picked up (because you're not moving), and why it gets removed on the slam (you've now been moved, breaking the channel). This might be testable, if you can have someone be just barely in range of the person getting grabbed, and see if they stay in range or move out of range when picked up. Though I'm not sure what action has a short enough range to test this, that can be used on another player. Maybe a cover tether? But even then there's the randomness of which way Byakko decides to turn after picking you up.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

@phiefer3 that is a pretty good idea for such a test!

[@FubukiShiromiya]

#1: I just always assumed I was messing up a mechanic! Wow, good to know!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Same! 😂

[@iPlayOnSpica]

In deep dungeons, a pomander of strength DOES only boost healing magic by 30%, not all healing actions. Might be helpful info for testing things related to this! (More noticeable difference than needing to grab a SCH buddy every time testing healing magic boosts)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is interesting and I never considered that! 😅

[@TomTheOwl68]

Ok saving for later because I want to sleep and I'll be listening too intently lol. Thank you for the content you put out.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That's totally okay, I imagine a lot of people save these for when they have time to really focus on it! Sleep well and thank you! 😄

[@ZaneLionhartffxiv]

Hey that's me lol. I do believe the stun negates diamond back from effectively blocking the damage. Even gobskin gets negated cause he still does the same damage on the second slam. I'm wondering if the slam is fixed damage.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Haha! 😁 The slam is not fixed damage, as I know it can be reduced with defensives and barriers too, but I dont think blue mage has what it takes to block the first hit from going through, which means the second hit always hits like a freight train! 😂 Being able to block the first hit fully is a significant part of soloing the fight with a tank job! 😁

[@Aogami20]

It seems like a really weird oversight for huge instances like alliance raids where the potential to have more than one bard is high, to essentially halve their songs' effectiveness like that.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Well that's difficult. Ultimately all the bards would want to start with the same song, so the logical reason for the songs not stacking is likely more to make sure the bards don't need to feel obligated to do something like coordinating songs. No other job has to either, but I guess then again other jobs don't really have persistent auras 🤔😅 I can however say this is not an oversight and seems entirely intentional 😊

[@Aogami20]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I'm sure it was intentional since it's the only time I can think of where two abilities interact by flipping which one is on/off every few seconds. I just mean that it reduces the value of any additional bards after the first significantly. There's got to be a better way to keep the game balanced

[@richardwallis9374]

I’m wondering, diamondback cancels any time you are forced to move (knockback etc). The fact that you stay in DB while in his hand is weird. Are you actually not moving on the server and your computer is just drawing an animation? Kinda like Ifrits dash. He’s not dashing, it’s a line aoe that flashes and your computer is just drawing something for you, basically unrelated.

[@AceA254]

This is high-quality content

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you so much! 😄

[@richday257]

Such a great video. Thanks for everything you do!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you so much! 😄

[@silvermint509]

Have a like just for the DragonForce joke, gave me a good laugh.

[@Dw7freak]

For the Dusk Vigil mammoth, if you get a big enough shield to take zero damage, the stuns will not be applied. This lets you avoid the other attacks, since they aren't actually tethered.

[@Scerttle]

9:40 I'm curious how the haste buff you get from the enemies in Sohr Khai functions, I'll have to try it out sometime 🤔

[@BlancaTsukiai]

For Byakko's State of Shock actually two sets play in tandem, in case you want to give an update for it in the next video: The first part: Where he grabs the player, puts them in an 'untargetable' state, which does NOT move the player's position, but the camera of the player. Similar to how Dragoon's jump works(worked) in putting you forward and then back to your spot. The second part of the actual SLAM is forcefully MOVING the player, thus making the player 'Move' with Diamondback on - which is negating Diamondback, as it is saying. The same effect actually happens and can be tested out, if you cast Diamondback and Jump as it finishes. It flashes up shortly, actively applying Diamondback, then removing itself almost instantly. It still consumes 3000 Mana, but the duration is cut short from the movement. Thus, I suspect that the movement from Byakko's active throw is cancelling the effect of Diamondback. I hope it helps in the next video, maybe :)

[@Coldhandz117]

does being in diamondback count as a stun (since you cant move or do other actions) so when byakko removes the stun effect of its grab it also removes the diamondback effect?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

This sounds like a possible explanation yes! 🤔😊

[@orciencor6001]

Good to know the bard songs pulse every few seconds. Kinda wonder why they went that route with their party buffs, instead of just letting them stack. But I suppose that's something we'll never know unless they tell us. Guess it really does mean: use the same song, or fight with other bards over which buff the party has the longest. Who can turn their volume up loudest?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I believe the reason is that if they did stack, then I call dibs on being the bard that gets to use wanderers minute during raid buffs! 😂 In other words, it would be much less fun to actually be the bards in some capacity! 😅

[@MortalSora]

So here's a question that has popped up a few different times while I've raided with my static: So I have cast Macrocosmos going into a raid wide with my whole group stacked. A second attack goes out and I unleash Microcosmos as soon as the second attack goes out. Every once in a blue moon, half of the party will get healed by it while the other half dies. I always assumed Micro healed everyone simultaneously. So, what's going on here?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Almost everything in the game happens, at its fastest, to one person per frame. If you've seen how your aoe attacks show the damage numbers one enemy at a time for a lot of jobs, that's essentially how most things work! (not all things!) As far as I know, with these things, the thing is resolved expanding from the source, so it is likely the players closer to you when you use micro get healed first! 😊

[@wavypavy4059]

I'd love to see a test on whether one hand wand and shield is optimal for white mage and black mage in bozja - I've seen people run it before and the gear normalisation is what they point to, but I don't get it.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

If I recall correctly what people saw was that you lose like around 0.1% damage output, but unlock blocking, which averages several percent of damage reduction, so it is usually worth it. I didn't go to test myself so I don't know for certain if it is in fact 0.1%, and I don't know how much block rate or strength you get. What I can say is that I did tank as black mage with a shield in delubrum reginae back in shadowbringers 😊🤔

[@ianheckman6655]

So follow up question about the bard song thing: does two bards playing the same song alternate in the same way? and it's just not visible that it alternates because it's the same buff? Or do they override each other?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

If they play the same song it doesn't really matter, and it would be impossible to see! But it would probably alternate in the asme way!

[@MiTsul2U]

I have a always question to many Ninja. Why they do Doton at single boss? Not Raiton? Would Doton is stronger than Raiton on single target? By I seen MANY of them put Doton on boss.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It's a common mistake because doton looks like a dot and dots are usually something you want to maintain for most jobs. Furthermore, the potency is not explained clearly by the tooltip. And finally, A LOT of ninjas see OTHER ninjas use single target doton. Raiton on single target is always better 😊

[@Oc-Ni]

Byakko holding blue mage Cae while In DB looks hilarious

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

*camera zooms in on Cae*: "HELP"

[@thesuperthingymabob8209]

Number 3 makes me wonder if fey illumination works with paladin self healing that gets added to their spell phase

[@Mephiidross]

The mammoth is the funny way it is thanks to the powercreep over the years. It does its stun mechanics based on HP percentages, and as a result while one person is getting stunned, the others can bring it down enough that it instantly starts another stun attempt. I think it's supposed to be random target, but it does tend to chainstun people xD (Here's a myth for ya: The RNG in this game favours chains of outcomes)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that sounds right. ALTHOUGH it does seem it is designed to deliver those stuns in 20 seconds or so at a time, which is a bit insane! 😂 To your myth, I actually bring this up in a way in this other mythbuster episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKvRppxpftV0ftU

[@Mephiidross]

Also for the Diamondback, I believe that's because Byakko forcefully moves you. IIRC almost all unavoidable knockbacks also break Diamondback, it's just that usually the damage is applied before the knockback. 🤔

[@Mephiidross]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Ohh, good to know! Time to dig into another ep then^^

[@phiefer3]

@@Mephiidross Yes, diamondback is technically a channeled ability, so it's broken by moving or turning or using another action, just like all other channeled abilities. The difference is that diamondback also prevents you from doing those things most of the time. For example, if you slidecast diamondback, then the bubble will appear and then immediately be canceled because you are moving. I mentioned in another comment that I think what's happening is that when Byakko picks you up, the game doesn't actually change your position until just before he slams you down (so you being in his hand is more of an animation and not actually movement). Which explains diamondback remaining active when he picks you up, and being removed as he slams you down.

[@Mephiidross]

@@phiefer3 Right, it's channeled. Good summary, and I agree that the slam doesn't update the position until the end. I think you could test that by using something like Aetherial Manipulation to try and teleport to the person in the chokehold.

[@NanoElite666]

Wait, Rout is a line stack? Looks like they missed something when they want back and updated a bunch of the old dungeons with standardized mechanic markers.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm guessing they missed it because it's an optional dungeon 😔

[@FubukiShiromiya]

The fun fact on this answered the question I had about bard songs after hearing that one. I was wondering what do you do if you have two bards? I guess ideally play different songs, as you’re probably only likely to see that in casual content? If not, then I guess wanderers minuet is the one you want to run under raid buffs and otherwise run the opposite song? This is way outside of my skill level for playing bard but it’s interesting nonetheless!

[@willa1018]

If a BLU casts Avail on a PLD, and the PLD uses Hallowed Ground, does the same rule of Cover apply and the PLD still takes damage, or does it actually work differently?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I have not tested this but my initial guess is that it works the same way, in that the paladin still takes damage, because avail and cover has turned out to be identical in functionality in every case I have tested at least 😅

[@enfys9833]

That made me wonder if Haste affects pets... *le sigh*, I'mma have to science it, huh

[@ashensage7968]

I really have no idea where this myth came from. For the two years or so I've been playing, everyone just dps'd him down and healer had to heal the person being bullied (usually the blm lol) and then all of a sudden I had an influx of people trying to stack the line aoe saying it shared damage?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Well, turns out it does. But the weirder part of the myth is almost certainly the suggestion that the stun is stopped AT ALL by stacking, given it doesn't work like that at all 😅

[@x057wind]

I love these videos They're like FF crack

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm glad to hear that! Thank you! 😄

[@Zinkhal1]

2:04 to be fair everybody is dead through that combo unless he gets heal or other support like shields ... scholar has "the best" chance to survive cause of the fairy ... maybe the barrier from scholar or sage could also deal with the problem never tried that just came in my mind now ;D but never knew the last one is a stack mechanic ... nobody use it like one ... and the game doesnt tell you at all ..

[@Puddincess]

Im sure its probably not the case, but could the bard song swapping be related to your auto attacks somehow? And Im only basing this off of the fact the songs require a target (for now, thank you Dawntrail)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That does not seem to affect it no. But some members of the caemmunity went on to test further and it may align perfectly with the so-called "actor tick". This is the individual timer that ticks every 3 seconds to give you hp regen and mp regen. This timer is actually perfectly identical among all party members when you initially enter a duty, and by making use of this, two bards have their songs basically both apply in the same frame repeatedly, only allowing one of their songs to run at all 😅

[@vespi57]

I've always said the worst DPS pairing in dungeons (and pretty much anywhere) is two bards. Although the songs alternate, I don't see it really changes anything.

[@alejoclosa7705]

i just run Dusk Vigil for the first time as a white mage and the mammoth stun-locked me with no other players in the stack and i still survived(i was also minimun lvl)

[@dazzlemasseur]

can you enhance shields by using Mantra before it's applied ?

[@kampfh7150]

Is the Byakko thing because it's a flat purge effect, removing any buff/effect that would specifically prevent you from dying? (i.e. tank invulns)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

From memory, invuln does block this effect so that is probably not it? 🤔

[@ThatHomestar]

i could have sworn different bard songs stacked in the past, but maybe i'm just misremembering

[@skyslayer7660]

Different bard songs dont stack? Booo that is dumb

[@thomasnguyen4427]

or main character syndrome.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Hmm in regards to the myth origins? That could be! 😅😊