2 years living with a heat pump - any regrets?

[@fmulleady]

Those differences are so marginal. The payback time is the issue. Even with the grant, acquisition and conversion costs can be very expensive. It's the same with solar panels because of the significant outlay initially. Not everyone can afford that. It's the same forcing people into EVs. Not everyone can afford them. We need proper government policies to address these inequalities. Reducing your carbon footprint is a privilege many can't afford. P.S. I still admire your principles and what you've done with your lovely Victorian property.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi fmulleady, thanks for engaging with the video. Your comment makes me a think a few things.... I agree that grants and subsidy are not sufficient to facilitate change for most people, and we need change in energy levies that currently subsidise gas over electricity to see payback improved. And I agree we need a better government to help with the transition. There are several organisations that are now offering heat pumps after the grant at the same price as a gas boiler. Your point about EVs, I agree they are unaffordable for most of us, partly because most of us don't buy new cars, I never have, we are reliant on the second hand market, which is growing for EVs. And will get bigger and cheaper over the years. EVs are cheaper to run and maintain so one day, this will be good for us. I would challenge that reducing your carbon footprint is a privilege many can't afford... the main responsibility for CO2 is industry and the wealthiest, those that can afford to fly around the world, that have big homes with big energy demands, that drive around in big cars, that consume more stuff, it is for those with the biggest shoulders to bare the biggest load in terms of CO2 reduction. And those who have less disposable income, we should help to reduce costs, improve homes and their insulation etc. The world needs to reduce emissions, and we should do our best to reduce as much as possible at our homes, communities, work places etc Thanks Tom

[@fmulleady]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I totally agree that we should still change our behaviours. Small things become big things collectively, point accepted. Still a lot of public policy change and new economic thinking needed though. I still admire what you've achieved and the sincerity of your video

[@kennethmaley2443]

So you mean all the delegates that fly to COP meetings and expect every body, other than them to cut they carbon footprint hypocrist do as l say not as l do.

[@garymenezes6888]

I find the Return of investment (ROI) argument strange. Most people already have heat pumps in their house, in the back of their fridges and freezers, do they expect an ROI on those items. When they purchase a new gas boiler do they expect an ROI on that. I agree buying these goods is expensive for most people, It makes more sense for them to switch, when their gas boiler dies, or is near the end of it's life.

[@JSM-bb80u]

EVs would achieve price parity with gas cars next year according to Goldman Sachs.

[@Xanthopteryx]

A tip if you have the space: When you have electricity prices tied to time, like hourly prices (i have that here in Sweden), then you should install large water tanks. A bit depending of the size and heat need but think at least one cubic meter. Then a pump that is connected and knows the prices per time unit. This makes it possible to heat a lot of water when it is cheap, and then use that hot water to heat the home during the rest of the period. Often it is cheaper during night as an example, and then it will run like hell during that time, and then shut off during expensive day time. To refine even more, you could tie it to weather forecast and outside temperature to find the sweep spot where the outside temperature makes it more beneficial to run since is is more efficient in high temperatures compared to cheap electricity price. This is just basic math so really not difficult at all although manufacturer have not stepped into this game yet, so you have to build it yourself. Basing on electricity prices, here there are available solutions already.

[@iamjesper]

Funderar på att skaffa en luft luftvärmepump som komplement till fjärrvärmen, och koppla den till när spotpriset är lågt. Vad finns det för utrustning som kan sköta detta?

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@iamjesper Mycket bra fråga. Generellt rekommenderar jag Mitsubishi. Min erfarenhet av deras luft-luft är att de är jäkligt bra och har väldigt tysta uteenheter. Har du räknat på vad du betalar per kwh värme på fjärrvärmen? Tänk på att du bör även kompensera till viss del för temperaturen ute då luft-luft inte är lika effektiv vid -20 som vid 0. Kolla vad exempelvis Mitsubishi har att erbjuda? Sedan kan du ju säkert hitta andra system som kan styra pumpen som en fjärrkontroll, eller bygga en egen med raspberry pi eller motsvarande.

[@dpn1604]

Terraced house... 50% less external walls! 3 of our neighbours across the road jumped on the heat pump bandwagon (detached, 1930, no insulation) and are now fuming after freezing their behinds off last 2 winters. They are all now insulating their houses. Insulate your house first, external walls, underfloor, loft! Effectiveness before efficiency. The most efficient energy tarrif is the one you don't have to pay.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi dpn1604, thanks for the comment. Absolutely, we are sharing some heat with our neighbours, we live on a hill so we have 2.75 external walls but the point still stands. We are told that heat pumps can't work in old homes but our 1870s terrace has a heat pump that works well. Sounds like the systems weren't designed or installed well. If installed correctly, a heat pump can heat any building. But insulation is great, improve comfort, reduced costs, reduced emissions - win win. And yes, many homes need insulation, but how much insulation? Our house has double glazing and loft insulation and a fairly modern extension. If we have to insulate to passivhaus standards before installing a heat pump then we will slow the transition down significantly. We need to insulate buildings but need to be reasonable in how drastic this needs to be. Thanks for engaging with the video Tom

[@mateo_dequ]

and it will only be worse when demand for electricity will increase due to EVs popularity and more and more ppl jumping on heat pomp nonsense. I got good thermal insulation, good condensing boiler and few other eco options which mainstream media dont tell you about and I'm loughing at the bills.

[@sharonthomas7284]

​@@mateo_dequ why demand in electricity? Most systems recommend solar power

[@aaronvallejo8220]

Great real time economic data! Thank you! Here in Canada some spend $2,500 for natural gas per winter. We invested in 3" going to 4.5" foam in the perimeter walls and 2" in the basement and floor. We then used our tiny wood stove daily so our electricity was $224 in Jan and $194 in Feb 2024. Next year we are getting a $15,000 air sourced heat pump and year after solar PV along the fence.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Sounds like a big bit of refurbishment and I suspect it will mean a much more comfortable home!

[@aaronvallejo8220]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Yes indeed it was a deep gutting and renovation for low energy high comfort. Well worth the cost and big effort.

[@SvenLippens1]

Don't forget the cost associated with installing a heat pump vs gas boiler. Same with solar and batteries, the energy isn't 'free'. You pay for it when you pay for the installation and should calculate the payback period or cost/kWh over the lifespan for it. I don't know which subsidies are in place where you are at but it would be interesting to me to know the payback period for the installation. Nonetheless good explanation and heat pumps are the way to go.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Sven - thanks for commenting, of course there is a capital investment to install a heat pump or solar PV or a battery. There would also be a capital investment, and ongoing emissions, to install a gas boiler, that we should also count. The costs for our installation we £11k, currently the government has a £5k subsidy so it would have cost us £6k to install our system, let's assume we weren't going to install a new gas boiler but let our system limp on for several years and compare with an old gas boiler. An older boiler would have an efficiency much less than the 95% I used in my calculation, so the savings would be higher vs gas. My savings around around £200 for this year (noting, last year we broke even rather than saved), so 'payback' could be estimated to be around 30years. A solar PV system could cost around £6k as well, a battery, another £5k, there are no subsidies on these, but would offer a more attractive return than a heat pump system because electricity is much more expensive. The key thing for all this is how much do we value decarbonising? If we have the resource to install any of this technology is it worth just the savings we make, or do we count the investment in a property, or the impact we have on the world around us? What should we be counting and how do we value it? I am thrilled to have reduced my emissions linked to heat by 1.5 tonnes per year. How much is that worth to me and future generations... priceless!

[@Xanthopteryx]

Also consider that the gas prices WILL go up. I can promise that. And sooner or later it will be forbidden, just like coal. Although UK seems to live decades behind Sweden on this sense - we removed coal as heating like, so long ago so it is ridiculous, and oil has been steadily going down extremely fast and less than 1% of Swedish households heat by oil now. It is biofuel for some and the rest mostly go by heat pump or district heating. There is no reason at all continuing with the gas heaters at home. It is actually better to burn that in a powerplant to create electricity so you can run your heat pump! It will save a hell of a lot of energy! And then use the leftover heat from that powerplant in district heating and save even more.

[@BluntyBlue-e1l]

My council giving us one for free is that worth getting

[@Eriuqsrednef]

@@SvenLippens1 Just remember, a boiler uses gas & that is cheaper than Electricity. A boiler can last 20 years & more if looked after. The best boilers were the old floor standing types & Combi types too. But how long will it be before Heat pumps, refrigerant Solar Panels etc need replacing & how much more will it cost your pocket & will you have paid the last new install back yet. Plus I hear its not all plain sailing with selling back to the grid, especially as more wind farms are in use. So have you looked at the overall picture or just the immediate one.

[@MarkGaudie]

DUDE!!! I didn’t know your hometown was Southport? Mike Simon commissioned our Heat pump installation. I live in Crosby now, but are used to live in Southport near the football ground on Forest Road. I am more than happy with our heat pump. I ended up installing all my own solar PV and home battery, saves me an absolute fortune!!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Love it! Yeah I was in Sowie from ‘98 to 2008, went to Norward, Birkdale, KGV but then left for Uni and never came back…! Was there for a mate’s wedding in June. Had a message from Mike about one of my videos and then a 45 minute call to help check my settings. Top bloke! Loved making the Southport connection. Pleased to hear about your system. It’s the future!

[@billkingdom5038]

Thank you Tom. I am 18months in my heat pumps. We fully renovated a Georgian Iron Stone home with wall, roof insulation and new fenestrations replacing the old oil boiler with 2 x Stiebel Eltron 14kW air source heat pumps. Love it now I am comfortable with how they work and even though electricity bills are steep they still cost less than if I was using Oil like we used to do and we are warm. More importantly we are well into double digit Carbon tonnage reduction...

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Fantastic to hear Bill - I think there are a lot of opportunities for savings moving from oil to heat pumps. My mother-in-law is in a similar situation, had a heat pump installer who wouldn't even quote for an installation, which is frustrating! My challenge to you is to tell as many people as you can about how it has gone, the struggles, the learning curve but also the art of the possible! Thanks for commenting!

[@salibaba]

😳😳28kW demand! That must be a mansion, or a hotel! In seriousness, I suppose the walls are very leaky (heat)

[@Nailnuke]

You said it. Oil ! It is hugely expensive. Gas is nowhere near the same price so you can't compare gas boiler costs. Sounds like your total installation costs, including insulation & water heating would have been huge, around £100,000. If you had gone from using gas, your outlay payback time, taking into account gas boiler replacement and fuel savings over the period would be somewhere in the region of 233years ! But of course in that 233 years you would need many more heat pumps. Which means payback time would become exponential

[@m.dm.d6790]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle hi what happened to your boiler you forgot to mention ?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@m.dm.d6790 hi m.dm.d6790, the boiler was scrapped. What else would we have done with it?

[@NedNew]

I live near an old wallpaper factory and have heated my home by burning their old reject stuff for the past 7 years and it hasn't cost me anything. I've also been generating about 4kWh of electricity daily using vinegar (bought in bulk), potato peelings and ferro-magnesium shavings that you can pick up for free at any iron mongers - it's worth the effort if you have a bit of space and don't mind the acidic smell.

[@Eriuqsrednef]

GREAT. BUT. Once major item you miss out. How much did the entire heat pump & other equipment cost to buy/install, ££££. Truth please. How long is the install guaranteed for. ? How long will it take to reclaim costs for the overall expenditure laid out on all this. ???.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello! I had talked about this in a number of videos, I had not expected the video I made last year to be seen so much without that other context.... so sorry for not giving the full picture! Install cost was £11k in 2021. There is currently a £7,500 grant from government. MCS suggests an average heat pump install is now £13k. Guarantee on the heat pump parts of 7 years, no guarantee on the installation (that I no of). A simple payback for my system would be 18-20 years, but that does not consider the improvement in comfort, reduction in emissions, improvement of air quality on my door step etc etc. We don't tend to calculate payback on many lifestyle decisions (new sofa, new car, expensive holiday etc) but for some reason people need to know the pay back of a heat pump. There may be small savings, depending on what you are moving from, but you could calculate those savings in lots of different ways. In the last year I calculate we have saved £200 vs a very efficient gas boiler providing similar comfort, but many people will be replacing an inefficient gas boiler so savings could be higher. Ultimately, if we are taking climate change seriously, we need to stop burning gas. Domestic heating is about 15% of UK emissions, heat pumps are a way to reduce that significantly. Thanks Tom

[@Juan_lauda]

A saving of £200 a year when the upfront costs are double that of a boiler means it will take at least 10 years to pay for itself. At least.

[@chrisfletcher86]

Seems like the real win is if you have solar panels, at least until install costs are similar

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Selbalamir and Chris, apologies I missed this comment a couple of week's ago. A few things, yes costs are reduced even further if supported by Solar Panels, or a subscription to an organisation like Ripple Energy. My situation is a bit different to most, we are told in the media that heat pumps will increase costs, and that they don't work in old homes. Well we live in a 1870s terrace, and are happy with the warmth delivered by a heat pump, and our costs have been decreased from a gas boiler. Yes, there is not a return on investment in a simple sense, but counting the wider impact on the investment - increased house value, we are more comfortable now, improved air quality outside our back door, AND, importantly for all of us, reduced CO2 emissions. What is all that worth in terms of payback? Thanks Tom

[@tenforward7485]

It’s not worth anything, those are all subjective, you can’t ignore the payback time and justify it with subjective benefits because the payback period represents amortisation of the capital cost which itself is merely a representation of embodied energy input and most of the time carbon was produced to produce the energy. A better way of representing the benefits would be to use a model that projects the closing of the gap between electricity cost and gas cost to the consumer. There will come a time where heat pumps will be a better choice than gas boilers but that time is not now and if we pretend that it is, it will only muddy the waters and produce poor investment decisions at a national and personal level.

[@chesshooligan1282]

Double? Try four times more, that is, unless you get the government grant of five grand. It's nice when someone else pays for your stuff, innit? Theft may be immoral -- more immoral than tiny carbon emirssions -- but who cares about that when you can virtue signal about saving the planet?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

HI @@tenforward7485 I would suggest you are working under the economic paradigm that has got us into this mess, where cost is more important that value. But yes, we could produce a model on the future costs of gas and electricity, we could campaign for changes to energy levies, we could ask for better grants or better finance, we could wait for heat pump prices to come down, we could wait for policy on carbon tax etc etc. Waiting isn't sufficient to respond to climate change. We do not have the time, so even if the traditional payback model isn't perfect, I am going to still encourage people to explore getting heat pumps. All the best Tom

[@markgilder9990]

I dropped my boiler temperature to 45 deg and set the over night temp to 18.5deg and the day time temp to 20deg and that keeps th house. Very cozy. That is using a lot less energy compared to last year.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Love that! And you’re proving a heat pump could work at your house, especially now it’s got cold!

[@hvacdesignsolutions]

Glad you're breaking even on the Heat Pump, but solar is expensive, especially solar batteries. It would be nice if the Govt introduced some domestic carbon credit to households who've adopted renewable energy. I think there would be a bigger uptake of HP systems, if they did.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi heatingdesignservices - yes I think there is a lot government could improve upon in helping households decarbonise. As we electrify heat and transport, I think there is a case for solar that would payback in a relatively short time, but if we don't have the capital in the bank to invest in the 1st place many would struggle. I think there are interesting loan schemes in Italy and Ireland that help with investment and / or give tax breaks on the cost of investment. There are a lot of creative ways we can subsidise the transition!

[@Burtis89]

Loooong term low monthly payment 0% or low interest rate so they get a little back green gov backed loans on all of it is the only way I reckon. Should be able to buy bundles of insulation, solar, battery and heat pump or any variation of the above. Push the cost of gas up with a green tax to help fund the transition and make it more level in the costs

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Government will never give out decent grants for solar with battery back up as they are primarily funded by oil and big business, it makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you does it. If the next government offers realistic grants imagine how many people would find new energy jobs, literally thousands in solar equipment manufacturing, installation, maintenance, training the list is endless, what a wonderful world we could live in if those in power would just do their jobs

[@dougpatterson7494]

I recently installed a heat pump and new high efficiency gas furnace in my Canadian home. This is the most efficient way to heat and cool a house. My cold weather heat pump can heat until -30 Celsius but I’ve read that the efficiency is greatly degraded. I am also getting solar panels installed so that will help as well. I should get a 0% interest loan from the government to finance my solar panels so, while it may cost me slightly more during the first five-ten years, once they are paid off in ten years I will save money on electricity!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great to hear your story Doug, and the different approaches around the world. We don't ever get down to -30°C, maybe -5°C is the coldest, so I am pleased to hear your system would work in that manner, even at lower efficiency. Thanks for engaging with the video Tom

[@Runningtorchbearer]

i am moving into a new bungalow that has a heat pump, with this large thing outside and a hug boiler like thing inside, the large boiler thing seems to have a screen which says 30. I have turned all the radiators to frost as not moved in yet, and turned the therostat down yet the screen on this boiler still says 30 in fact it has gone up from 22 to 30. the housing association told me it was better to keep it running and there was no need to alter anything apart from the thermostat, but i am concerned about this 30 degrees or whatever it is. I wonder if i should switch it off but concerned i might break it or it doesnt come back on?? I am nearly 77 and just concerned that the heat on is going to cost a fortune.

[@DarthCoco]

A very genuine clear, and interesting analysis, for what I am studying!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great stuff - pleased it can be of help! What are you studying? I touched upon heat pumps in my engineering degree 15 years ago, but I didn’t get their significance back then

[@DarthCoco]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I am studying a new degree called Sustainable Built Environments!

[@adamwilson3064]

Hey Tom, thank you for this video. I am about to start our heat pump journey. We have a 1900s stone house. We are having external wall insulation and bigger radiator and solar panels. Long term plan looks like trying to buy a battery to store energy to offset electric aswell. Thanks for giving me the confidence im making the right choice

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Adam, thanks for the comment, pleased to hear you are starting your journey, and sounds like you are taking a good approach. Hope it goes well, will be thrilled to hear how you get on. All the best Tom

[@LivingTech]

Great video Tom, thank you. In June 2023, at our home in Kingston Ontario Canada, we installed an inverter-based air source heat pump and 20.25kW solar panels a month later (max feed to grid is only 10kW, but 20.25kW helps capture more solar when sun at unfavorable angle, cloudy days, etc.). We are now on net-metering with the electricity company, so we store our unused solar energy in our local grid, for consumption during late Fall, Winter and early Spring. As such, we don't have batteries to maintain. We'll see how it all works out, but after just 49 days we've generated over 3.01MWh of electricity, and 1,245kg CO2 emissions reduction. Of note is that our new heat pump will generate heat at down to -30C ambient. As such, I don't think we'll be using much propane this winter.

[@markhoffman]

Yes it will generate heat at -30 but not as cheap as natural gas.

[@TonyTheNerd]

Well, I wasn't expecting that - it certainly goes against what we keep hearing about HP's not working well enough to heat the house. Well presented, useful information Tom 👍

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for the comment Tony. I think there’s a lot of disinformation out there so trying to give people an honest case study

[@petercollins7848]

Unless a heat pump is very carefully matched to the properties requirements and that there is good insulation then then heat pumps will be a failure. You have also to factor in the expense of installation £thousands before talking about savings. Then there is the ongoing maintenance and replacement of parts as they wear. A £2000 gas boiler will last 15 or more years and cost roughly the same to replace when it fails. Also no one knows that when people come to sell their homes that a prospective purchaser will want to take on all those responsibilities for the future. It may deter many from looking at the property.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Peter, thanks again for all your comments, can you explain why a heat pump would not be matched to a property's requirements? Our insulation is fairly standard in an 1870s terrace, the heat pump is performing well. I have been fairly clear in my videos that the priority is not financial savings but the significant CO2 savings, why do you keep commenting about £? I would be much more interested in buying a property with a heat pump than with a dirty fossil gas boiler. Happy to have a conversation off KZbin about all this Peter, it sounds like you are very angry about other people reducing emissions!@@petercollins7848

[@petercollins7848]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I think that I said that a ASHP should be ‘very carefully matched to the properties requirements’ in all my comments, which is absolutely right. Also I have said that I am all for cutting pollution and CO2, but it must be done in attainable and practical ways that does not damage people’s pockets or put them in a worse situation than they would be if they kept their gas boilers. So that is why the good but also the bad aspects of installing a heat pump needs pointing out. Time will tell if heat pumps are a long term viable solution to people’s heating needs. It is far too early to just claim ‘success’ at this stage and point in time. In fact there is emerging a lot of evidence that many people are regretting having an ASHP fitted and are having to resort to supplementary heating or face large electricity bills.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I would be thrilled if you could share that evidence...? Heat pumps are not new, how long do they need to work until you would be happy? 2 years isn't enough? Casting doubt like this is exactly what slows the process, and doubt without evidence!@@petercollins7848

[@philipbroggio9315]

Hi Tom, Love this video this is great to dispel the naysayers and FUD we are experiencing atm. I am a year behind you but to backup what you have found I did not freeze in Dec 22 !! Our stats were were Heating 2667kwh ==> 9682 kWh (sCOP = 3.64) DHW 532kWh==> 1270KWh(sCOP = 2.39). We also have solar but no battery so we used further 867kWh using Eddi diverter 68% of which was free ! Our average cost of electricity was 24.5 p/kWh as we used roughly 50% at night rate on GO Faster. One thing you could have factored into your video is not paying the gas standing charge so saving a further £129 on top of the usage charges . WE are now looking forward to Ripple 2 savings like you and considering the final step of a battery. Keep the videos coming . Thank you

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Philip - fantastic stuff! Great to hear your experience and see your figures. Brill to see a heat pump supported by solar PV, it just makes sense! We aren't gas free at the moment as still have a gas hob, and still paying the standing charge... we'll get there one day! Thanks for commenting, appreciate the support!

[@petercollins7848]

Sounds like you are spending a fortune to save a bit. I am not against these heat pumps and other new technologies - far from it, for I love technology and have all sorts of ‘gadgets’ around the house. But the major point is, that unless these technologies can be afforded by the millions of poorer people in this country then they simply will not be adopted. Millions can hardly afford to live already in this ‘rip off’ country - they are certainly not going to spend tens of thousands of pound on an experiment! ( Not saying the technology doesn’t work, it does, but not always in every situation).

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleWhy do you still use a gas stove? Any special reason? Bad for the health and not that efficient - not very efficient at all in fact - compared to a modern induction stove.

[@dmitryrozhdestvenskiy3987]

I'd like to ask you a few questions. - noise level - maintenance cost - how warm is it in the house?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello - I did a video about noise- kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaTVco2DYtGXf5o We had 2 years of servicing included in the installation. For the 3rd year it cost £225, which was pretty steep! Warm is subjective, but we are happy, we heat our most occupied room to 21°C Thanks Tom

[@kalshinken1168]

Hi Tom, a very interesting video and great to hear your getting on with your heat pump. I have pushed for the full setup of heat pump, solar PV and battery and I am getting very significant savings as you have mentioned. As I also have a electric car I am using the Octopus intelligent tariff and have been optimizing my energy use on appliances and when the heat pump heats the water tank i.e. timing the cheaper energy tariff over night and using solar during the day. What is also worth mentioning is that we don't use gas for cooking so the gas was previously only for the boiler, so once we got a heat pump the house is gas free and I no longer needed a gas meter so I don't get charged the standing fee for having a gas meter so that's another saving there.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Kalshinken1168 - fantastic to hear your story, you have basically done it all, the end goal! A very low carbon, low cost home!! Is there anything left to do? Is there anything you would do differently if you had a second chance? Thanks for engaging with the video!

[@kalshinken1168]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom, in my case I had been fortunate to be able to gradually upgrade my house over a number of years starting from 2014 taking advantage of various government incentive grants such as home insulation and solar PV feed in tariff, rather than having to pay and do it all at once. So I can honestly say there's very little I would do differently given the technology that were available at the time. The only thing I can do differently is more a result of improving technology such as higher efficiency home batteries such as Tesla power wall or Myenergi Libby which was not available at the time. I plan to add additional battery's to cover the winter period when there is less solar and use more of the cheaper EV Tariffs rates. There were a number of benefits that came with the solar pv and heat pump which I didn't know I would get such as my home is now energy grade A rated which improves the value of my house and solar pv means my house is black out proof.

[@katzolitamason6729]

My heat pump is saving me money providing I keep it on at all times- That’s how it’s most efficient. I dint need other heaters anymore. There’s a lot to how you use it to find out how to correctly use one- Keep it on between 19 and 22 degrees . That’s what I do anyway. My bills have gone down.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for commenting, I have a similar experience Thanks Tom

[@edwardlsanders]

Thanks for this video. Like you, like millions, I also live in a small victorian terrace. Your example helped to persuade us to get a heat pump. Order is in subject to the survey going well. Our logic was simple -- if you could feel comfortable heating a home in County Durham then it'd work just a well in sunny Oxford. The only downside of the process, so far, is that the quotation is relatively expensive due to needing to upgrade all our radiators. My estimate is that you have underestimated your potential savings. I assume that you don't cook with gas so having a heat pump would mean not needing to be on the gas grid. Did you add this to the £194? Our standing charges are £106 a year so this isn't a trivial saving.

[@davidsaunders2906]

And what was the installation cost? And what was the net cost to the environment of replacing a servicable existing system with the cost to the environment of manufacturing a new system?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi David, installation cost was around £11k before the boiler upgrade scheme existed. Net cost to the environment? Well in terms of emissions this is a helpful blog. And the emissions pay back will have improved since 2019 www.raponline.org/blog/why-i-replaced-my-new-gas-boiler-with-a-heat-pump/ Thanks for engaging.

[@hero28]

We just bought a heat pump install today foe next week, we also have solar panels and an EV car. The money we have saved has been amazing can't wait for our pump

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That’s great news. How did you find the installer? What heat pump are you getting?

[@Lewis_Standing]

I'm getting my airex smart airbrick installed soon, and then will get quotes for a heat pump. Hopefully by reducing heat loss I won't have to upgrade the pipes. Happy to get larger radiators to heat the house more effectively but don't want to ruin my flooring by changing all the pipes. Might have to anyway 🤷 Looking forward to getting rid of gas. I suspect my usage might be similar to yours, similar property type in Whitley Bay with similar gas use per year, so hopefully get similarly great results.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great stuff - would be interested to hear about your Airex experience and whether you notice any difference. We didn't change any pipework in our house but that may be a reason our efficiency is limited to some extent. Would be great to hear how you get on in the medium term!

[@Lewis_Standing]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle my wood floors are freezing so I hope so!

[@petercollins7848]

Hope that you have taken into consideration the costs of installation before claiming any ‘savings’, also if it doesn’t work and if you take the government grant there is no going back to a gas boiler without paying the grant back!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Peter, I can assure you Lewis is very much taking to account all the costs and risks associated with installing a heat pump, he is following the facts and making a good decision. Rather than trolling people on youtube....@@petercollins7848

[@petercollins7848]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Not ‘trolling’ at all! Just offering good advice. Lots of people if you look at the comments are finding problems with heat pump installations and the costs associated with them. It is common sense to look at the subject objectively.

[@milesripley8839]

Amazingly produced video. Using this for a essay for my degree as a experience of someone with a air source heat pump. Really helped!!!!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Miles - pleased I can be of some help! Where and what are you studying?

[@AndyY499]

Im getting one soon, with a 210L water tank. Question : Will I ever run out of hot water? Say for instance, I want to take a shower, then someone else does right after me, will there be enough hot water?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Andy - great to hear you are getting one soon! We have a 200 litre tank and for two of us we don’t tend to run out of hot water. We have had 3 people living in this house. But I guess it depends on how long a shower you want, 9 litres a minute would use 210 litres in 23 minutes, but it would also be blended with some cold water so should ve more than 23 minutes of showering…. We haven’t found it to be a problem or really noticeable at all Hope that’s helpful Tom

[@MrJohnny2hands]

There’s a famous case in Sunderland of a flagship development of high rise blocks taking gas out and installing heat pumps. After 4 years, they’re all being taken out. Not against heat pumps - they have a big part to play - but there needs to be a big review on training and standards.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Johnny, I knew about the Sunderland installation with Kensa and Sunamp (I live in Durham so some local interest), but hadn't heard that it was being taken out - do you have any links that I can read up on it? Sounds like a big shame!

[@allthegearuk]

I would be interested in more information about this case. I would suspect the education about how the system works and how to use it was lacking so residents complained.

[@ianmarchant-qu6jf]

So essentially it will take many decades to get a return on your investment… they need to make it less expensive to run and less to install. What I don’t know what is the life expectancy of a heat pump?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Ian, we should be aware of increased comfort and reduced emissions, these have a value that many people would pay for. We don’t tend to calculate pay back on a new sofa or a new car… But yes, making electricity cheaper would make heat pumps more attractive. At the moment the levies on energy bills punish the use of electricity but subsidise gas, which does make it difficult for heat pumps to make significant financial gains. Ours is slightly cheaper even in an house with OK insulation, could be much cheaper in a modern home. If serviced and maintained well a heat pump should last for many years. If the heat pump does break it would not need a new tank / new radiators etc so would be much cheaper to replace than install. Tom

[@grahametindale8292]

20 years life expectancy

[@stewartbridge5162]

Thanks for giving such detailed answers to the comments. Also, thanks for explaining emissions, 1kw in for 3kw out seems amazing. Is that 300% efficiency?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for the comment Stewart. Yes that’s 300%. The system is using a little bit of electricity to take heat from the air and multiply it to deliver heat inside the house. I try to explain it a bit in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKnQeoqfeq-iis0&feature=shareb Thanks Tom

[@stewartbridge5162]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I've watched the video, which is also good, but I'm wondering what happens when the outside air temp reduces from say 10 Celsius to 1, to my mind there'd be less heat available to turn the liquid to gas, if that's true then which part of the pump has to work harder, maybe the fan to suck air in faster? Does the fan consume much less electricity compared to the compressor?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Good questions. A couple of points to answer - there is heat in air down to absolute zero (-273°C) and a heat pump can extract that heat as long as the air temperature is above the ‘evaporation point’ of the refrigerant in the system. In our case, the refrigerant is r290 or propane, that evaporates at -40, so technically, if frost doesn’t block the air movement, our heat pump can operate down that low. The fan uses very little power but yes the compressor works harder to provide the same heat at lower temperatures. There is less energy / heat in the air, so we need to add more from the electrical connection powering the compressor. The hum noise that a heat pump makes (albeit not very noisy) is mostly the compressor operating inside the box (rather than air movement from the fan). Hope that helps!

[@monckfish]

the difference you didnt mention is the temperature in the house? gas may not be as efficient but the temperature in the house would heat up quicker and to a higher level? what temp do you set your house to during winter?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi monckfish - thanks for the comment, I have done a load of videos about how our heat pump has performed over the last couple of years, didn't include that kind of review here but maybe should've done... sorry! Yes, we tend to use gas boilers inefficiently by running them hard to deliver heat quickly, in reality, if we wanted to reduce gas boiler emissions we would run them at lower temperatures (similar to a heat pump) and this would improve efficiency. Heat pumps work most efficiently at low flow temperatures so we try to keep them low and slow, and run them over a long period of time. We don't think in the same way about heat up time. We keep our house at about 19°C during the day (it varies a bit throughout the house, it is an old draughty victorian terrace) and then a 'set back' of 18°C overnight. It is pretty much always at the temperature we want. We used to have the gas boiler running without a space thermostat, just on and off on a timer, this would bring the temperature up for a couple of hours, then we would sit cold for a few hours before topping up again in the evening. I think we are much more comfortable now, but delivering a similar amount of energy... Does that answer your questions? Thanks Tom

[@monckfish]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks for the reply. I wasn’t being negative now that I read back it might have come across as that. But my arguments were the standard arguments that gas can heat fast. Just generally interested to see what temp you can get. 18-19 is fine for most people (that’s what we set ours too). Just need to change mind set of setting the heating on at the point of wanting it but more leave it on all day ticking over.

[@stuartkennedy4202]

Here in Scotland in winter 19 degrees would be too low can your heat pump go higher say 22 degrees if so what does that do to its efficiency.

[@TheRamblyChannel]

Great video Tom. I got my ASHP in September 2022 and my experiences are similar to yours. I have no regrets, the house is warm even through some very cold snaps and it’s amazing how it works. There’s so much nonsense printed about green technologies whereas those of us who have made the switch are proving them all wrong. Good luck with your future plans! Andy

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Andy! Great work with your channel!

[@gileslewismortimer]

Great video and it's good to see numbers on a more typical potentially less insulated house. You're right, it's not all about cost it's mainly about carbon. Although I still do see the cost argument. If I spend 10k on solar panels and that saves say £500year I do not fully agree with the payback period of say 20Years as it does not consider that even the simple interest on £10k of savings would save around £450/year , so the "additional" saving above this £450 is quite negligible. . . . something always conveniently omitted from "payback time" calculations unfortunately.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Giles, apologies for the slow response to this comment. Fair point about the potential interest and 'payback' of this kind of low carbon investment. I prefer to see it as a lifestyle choice, a bit like buying a new kitchen, or a big holiday, things that don't have a financial payback but we can make the case because of the impact they have on our lives. But also, with higher grants, and reducing costs, maybe a heat pump is becoming a much smaller investment than it used to be. Thanks for engaging with the video, all the best for the new year Tom

[@JaSon-wc4pn]

Alot of rumours about Scotland getting forced to buy a heat pump for new builds and houses for sale. Under a new legislation So expect alot of site traffic from up north, Im also curious about how you heat your water for baths and general cleaning of dishes. Is the heat pump similar to a combi both open for hot water & closed for heating Or is this only for heating and you have an alternative gas/ electric boiler or even a quooker Just asking for curiosity sake My flat is so small and airtight, I dont need heating over the winter. (My old plasma tv is pretty warm) And I only use Gas for showers, but pay more for pipe rental than cubic flow of gas ???

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi JaSon, I am not up to date with the policy north of the wall, but in England the future homes standard will prevent gas boilers being installed from 2025 (it should be the case already but not long now!) Hot water - as part of the heat pump installation we needed to install a hot water tank, a combi boiler uses a lot of power very quickly to provide instantaneous hot water. A heat pump can't do that so heats the tank slowly as required. Our hot water tank has an immersion heater too that could heat up the tank quickly where required. We tend to store the hot water all day at a level that provides nice hot water when we need it. Great to hear your flat is efficient and doesn't need much heat, it is a shame you have to use gas for hot water, just using electric hot water for that would be a quick and cheap way to reduce gas use for you Tom

[@bookerman16]

Where do we get these solar panels and batteries? Assume they’re free or I missed the cost being included in the calculations

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Bookerman16 - thanks for the comment, this video is about life with a heat pump, our installation cost around £11k which would be £6k after the boiler upgrade scheme grant. We don't have solar panels or a battery, this is partly because our roof is quite old, I think original 1870s, so needs replacing before we get a solar system. To find out what could be installed I would recommend being in touch with an installer through MCS - mcscertified.com/find-an-installer/. A standard domestic solar system should be between £5k-7.5k, add another £5k for a battery system. Thanks again Tom

[@rogerdickinson6944]

Hi Tom, we’re also in Durham and have bought a house with a recently installed gas and heat pump combi system. We’re getting some building work done so I’m going to have the boiler removed and go full heat pump. The original installer put bigger radiators in but left the old 8mm pipe work so I’ll get that upgraded to 20mm. Apart from that it’s a early 80s house with UPVC, recent cavity insulation and loft insulation. Judging by the window condensation on a morning, it’s well insulated. The new extension will have underfloor heating. Did you do anything else fancy to upgrade your heating and insulation systems when you installed the heat pump? My wife is concerned she will be cold but I’m confident!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Roger - brill to hear your plans! We are in a 1870s terrace, with double glazing, loft insulation and an extension built in 2018, that is a small area of underfloor heating. I don’t think there is much unusual in our house… you’d be welcome to come and visit to see it if you’re nearby (we’re in Neville’s Cross) It sounds like your house will have less heat loss, so should be able to run your heat pump efficiently. And there is no reason you’ll cold if heat pump is sized and installed correctly! Would love to hear how you get on Thanks for commenting Tom

[@rogerdickinson6944]

I agree, the system was installed with a grant for the previous elderly occupant. Someone who had no interest in heat pumps, so the install wasn't great. These are the folks who complain of cold houses afterwards, no wonder if they keep the 8mm pipework. The installers just go after the grant money and try and make as much profit as they can. The gov would be better off giving grants to young families who might actually understand the system. My wife has prevailed and the boiler will be kept for now, I will try and run heat pump only in one of the cold months and see how we get on!!@@petercollins7848

[@rogerdickinson6944]

Hi Tom, my wife has prevailed and the boiler will stay (but be moved) until the heat pump has proved itself! Building work has started but I am still researching underfloor systems. Hoping to get some pricing back from engineers next week. Interesting that you are in Neville's Cross, we're in Meadowfield. Small world. @@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle

[@petercollins7848]

Do you not leave some windows open at night to relieve condensation? Or perhaps you have an air exchange system? To upgrade as you say, you will have to spend quite a bit of money, I hope you get the temperature levels you are hoping for or your Wife will make your life a misery!

[@rogerdickinson6944]

@@petercollins7848 I think I’ll look into a PIV system if condensation remains an issue

[@johnsmith-dz1nv]

Thank you for your video. We are just catching up in California. I'm looking at all the options. For a small house, I'm looking at window units. Reversible heat pumps that act as air conditioners in summer and bring in heat in winter. About twice the price of an air conditioner but would quickly recoup the cost in electric savings. My cousin is a green specialist, city planner, in Shropshire. She'd be impressed with your scheme.

[@tobiwaan1476]

A great informative video, but it would be helpful to understand what average temperature do you have your Victorian house at during the Winter? How many hours do you have your heat pump heating your house during the winter? Instead of comparing the costs over the entire year… (you don’t have heating on during the Summer) what would your costs be over the Winter - Oct to April ? As we all know that this timescale is when the Electricity prices are at their most expensive… this I feel would be a more accurate reflection of a heat pump compared to gas boiler…

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thank you - I have done a few videos about heat pumps in winter, here is one - ‘Heat Pump stats - January 2024 - how much did it cost to run?’ kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ7WfolsdtWqhZY but a couple of others on the channel too. We keep the house at about 19° and keep the heat pump running all the time, this means we can run it most efficiently and is the conclusion I have come to for lowest costs and best comfort. If it’s helpful… our whole electricity use for the year in 2023 was 5104 kWh and about 650 kWh was used over the summer (ie May to September). So majority of our electricity use is winter. Around 700-800 kWh in Dec and Jan. Those times may be the most expensive electricity. But also the windiest weather. So in the future may be bountiful in cheap electricity. Hope all that’s helpful context! Tom

[@richardstamper5630]

What I don't understand is, what is the average temperature in the rooms, are they too warm, slightly warm or is there a chill in the room. Also, do these heat pumps run 24 hours because your figures make no sense to me if you are only running the pump for let's say 12 hours a day. We live in a 1930 detached property, the roof and walls are insulated, we have double glazing, a modern gas boiler and 17 radiators with individual control valves. In the depths of winter we run the boiler for 1 hour in the morning and and about 5 hours in the evening. Of course the temperature drops throughout the day but not to an unbearable level, nothing a knitted jumper can't resolve. We want to consider installing a heat pump but I would hate it if it left the room barely warm and costing more to run than our current setup. The interest for me is having heat 24 hours but at what cost. So many questions....

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Richard, I don't have logs of the average temperature in each room, but we are comfortable with the heat pump. We set it to achieve 19°C in our kitchen (most used room) and that means we are comfortable throughout the house. How do the figures make no sense? The heat pump runs for as long as it needs to reach the desired temperature, and running heating systems 'low and slow' means they work more efficiently, i.e. as low a flow temperature as possible. This probably means that is running for most of the day and night We use it differently to how you heat your home. My calculations suggest our heat pump is now cheaper to run that a gas boiler but depends on the installation and how it is run. Hope that helps answer your questions? Tom

[@roverchap]

How long will it take to recoup the cost of installation? Oh, you said it later on. I have a modern gas boiler (2018) very efficient. I just try to use it less and heat individual rooms with interesting vintage electric fires. They are probably not so efficient but they look fantastic (like space ships) and being fully electric I can subscribe to green energy and possibly solar panels. A heat pump works for you but I don't have space for the tanks and pipework required, that's why I got rid of my old boiler and water tank.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Roverchap, thanks for the comment. Heating in that way is ok, and electric heaters like that will give you a path to very low carbon heating. At some point we need to get gas use to zero, so you are definitely one step along the way. Heating with a heat pump would be about 1/3rd of the cost of heating with electric heaters, but if that system doesn't work then, brill you will be reducing emissions every time you heat with electricity vs your gas boiler. Thanks Tom

[@jayp913]

Great content and it certainly demystifies things for me. What do you suppose the reason for the bad press is all about? After all people in Scandinavia have had HPs for over 50 years!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

A good question! Probably a few things - I think there is some misunderstanding in our traditional heating systems (ie running boilers very ‘hot’) which means more efficient systems at lower temperatures don’t seem to be performing well. There may have been some bad installs and I am sure there will be more. And there is some delay / misinformation from the incumbent fossil boiler industry… But if we are serious about decarbonising heat, and want to be comfortable in our buildings, heat pumps are the main way forward. Thanks again for commenting! Tom

[@davidscott3292]

However, a gas boiler can be turned on and off exactly as and when needed, which saves energy and money.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

To some extent that is true, but if temperature drops when a boiler is off, it takes a similar amount of energy to reheat to comfortable temperatures. And if you have a boiler set up to heat up quickly, it won’t be working efficiently… but it’s a fairly nuanced calculation so… you’re probably right! A heat pump will use 1/3rd of the energy of a gas boiler (at most) Thanks Tom

[@MsJustice4ever]

What temperature do you have in the house though? Due to an elderly family member’s health condition, we can’t turn down the thermostat in our house. It’s at a minimum of 22 Celsius. And my costs with a latest model efficient gas boiler were the same as yours in my 3 bed semi with solid walls (no cavity wall).

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi MsJustice4ever - we keep the house at about 19°C which we are comfortable at, understand that others need to be warmer. It is difficult to compare one house to another, heating is impacted by location, wind direction, insulation levels etc etc. I am pleased that your modern boiler is working well and has similar costs to us. It would also have at least 3x the emissions, which is a bit of a shame...! Thanks Tom

[@vecamiolo]

19 would be way too cold for us. Especially when used to wood stoves like we have for primary heat that is often warmer than we need.

[@markvk42]

Hi Tom, Good to hear that your getting on well with your pump. We finally have ours installed, at the moment its only really being used to heat water, the engineer returns on Friday to finish commissioning the heating side of it. Ive learned loads since i last commented on one of your videos (legionella) and ive scrapped my cycle and dropped the water temp to 45... so im on your page now. (however im not recommending anyone else to do this... ;)) Ive installed 30KWh of batteries and a 8Kva inverter and solar comes next month. Im trying to work out if my battery bank is big enough or if i need more. What is your heat loss? our house sounds very similar to yours. And do you by any chance know what your highest daily use for the pump was. Im on Go charging up at night so all of my elastic trickery is at 9p for the entire day.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Mark, thanks for the comment and sorry it has taken me a while to come back, sounds like you are making great progress! Our heat loss was estimated at just over 5 kW. The highest daily demand last winter was in the region of 45-50 kWh, which is a lot! The average is much lower than that 20-25 kWh during winter, so your battery bank may well be able to supply a great deal of the demand for the majority of the days. I suspect there will be 1-2% of the days where it won't meet the demand. Would love to hear how you get on Thanks Tom

[@markvk42]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Thanks Tom, ill keep you posted. Our heat loss is just over 6kw so slightly higher than yours. Given that our normal load without the pump is about 17kw/day winter use, the batteries wont be nearly enough. Ill order another 30kwh worth and that should do it i think.

[@edwardpickering9006]

Really interesting Tom, thanks for that. Did you know that Ebac down the road in Newton Aycliffe are making heat pumps in the Uk now? Looking into it for our new build...

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Edward - I didn't know that, but interested in hearing more, could be fun to visit a heat pump factory!

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

Good you are honest and show you don't actually save much money, but have a lot higher installation costs... HP are just great at reducing carbon output, but you aren't going to halve your heating bill as they would have us believe. What you say tallies perfectly with what i have said for years.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Steve, I would point out my experience is in a victorian property that most people say heat pumps would not be able to heat. So, in many more modern properties with better insulation, I would expect better performance and therefore probably lower costs. I don't remember ever reading that heat pumps would halve costs but if you have seen that then I would agree that is a bit exaggerated. Our savings are around 15-20% over a gas boiler. If we were able to couple with a solar system, a time of use tariff and a battery, or even a novel energy tariff, like through Ripple Energy - rippleenergy.com?ogu=6499&rtrfn=Tom-B then you would start to see even better savings. We currently subsidise gas over electricity, which is unlikely to last forever, if there was less subsidy for gas, or more for electricity, things may swing in Heat Pump's favour. Installation costs are also coming down as we as a nation get more experienced with the technology. We need to move to heat pumps to reduce our emissions linked to heat, saving money on bills is a bonus Thanks Tom

[@MyMateYourMate]

That's a really helpful explanation of the efficiency economics. We're about to get a whole heap of solar panels and batteries installed but I'm struggling to know just where we can fit a heat pump that's convenient and efficient due to the layout of our house. One day we'll get there (and maybe they'll be cheaper by then too).

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for the comment - you may be interested in this example on Twitter of PV and self consumption for the heat pump over the year x.com/zapaman/status/1692176586051837985?s=46&t=5Ro34wtPZIKPoqNqfBV2NA Solar and a battery is a great step forward. And brill to hear you are thinking heat pump too. Hope it all goes well!

[@kevphillips02]

I am not technical so a lot of info goes over my head . Currently I have electric heaters which cost a fortune and they do not heat the home very well . Soon I am moving and I have my eye on a house with a heat pump built in 2007 . Am I better moving to a house with gas heating or heat pump ?

[@jakeartis955]

Intending on retrofitting my ex pit house with underfloor heating and a heat pump next year as part of the full renovation of the property. The property was fitted with some leasehold solar panels so hopefully we'll get more use out of the energy it produces. Currently the property is well insulated but the old back boiler just is too inefficient. My goal is to make the house as efficient as possible to make future living costs lower

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Jake, fantastic to hear your plans, hope it goes well. Would love to hear how you get on Tom

[@florin9868]

at that difference in costs/year gas boiler is still cheaper to install. here in Romania heat pumps are very expensive to buy and install compare to gas boilers

[@veneration1]

What about noise levels ? 60 houses in a village are being built next to me (30 metres from house) with these things on. Will I now suffer a drone forever more that I live here ? 60 all at once is so much, especially at night when right now it is silent.

[@Neilukuk]

"The sound safe system ensures that it is hardly audible during operation. With sound power as low as 54 dB(A) the Arotherm plus 3.5, 5, 7 and 12 kW outputs have been accredited with the quiet mark"

[@allanallen1835]

My neighbour about 3 houses away has one and it makes an awful taos hum kind of drone, like a diesel engine ticking over far away, awful.

[@veneration1]

@@allanallen1835 That is what I dread. At the moment the builders leave a water pump on overnight whenever it rains and that creates a dreadful diesel engine ticking over noise too, and that is just one, it may not be a heat pump but it is still the same kind of sound and that is 50 metres away, the houses will start from 30 metres away, 60 of them cramped together in the field. Can I ask how far away is the neighbour of yours with the heat pump ? Is theirs new ?

[@davideyres955]

Hi Tom. Interested in how you actually run the heat pump. I’m out for most of the day so I would probably not have the heating on and therefore I would want to know how long it takes to heat the house from cold. The time this takes will likely to be longer with a heat pump vs a boiler due to the delta T.

[@sidperry7748]

That is the question that gets avoided by most , all but one , the nice chap that installs them and is very good at it .

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi David and Sid, it is a good question, and you are right, because we have lower flow temperatures the heat up time is much slower (although if you ran a gas boiler efficiently, it would be lower flow temperatures too). I guess the key is the 'set-back' temperature. If you want it to be 20°C in the morning and evening, then setting the system to 18°C during the day would save on energy use, but mean the system could get back up to the right temperature quickly. If you turned the system off completely during the day then I think it would struggle to reach temperature when required. I'd suggest this could be a bit of trial and error though depending on the house. If the house doesn't have much heat loss, it may hold temperature for most of the day, if it was draughty then it may lose temperature quickly... At least one of us is working from home most of the time, so we tend to have the system running all day, providing a small amount of heat to maintain temperatures, rather than a big load of heat in the morning and evening. The physics of what is happening is interesting... a house with an external temperature of 0°C will lose a certain amount of heat, in our case, around 5 kW. To lift the house internal temperature from 19°C to 20°C at that external temperature would take a certain amount of energy in kWh, that energy doesn't change if you do it quicker, so keeping the house at a constant temperature would use a simialr amount of energy to letting it drop during the day and lifting the temperature when you are in the house... I might do a video on that...>! Tom

[@allthegearuk]

If you have smart controls you can set the temperature you want at a certain time and the system will learn what inputs are required to have the house be that temperature at that time. So easy you get back at 6pm. On a mild day it might start at 5pm but on a cold day it might start at 3pm so the house is 'warm' at 6pm.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

If you're on the Cosy tariff you will want to run the pump during the cheap periods, ie early morning and late afternoon.

[@abegosavi6462]

I've just been quoted £1100 by octopus to install ASHP system, in 4bed/4storey semi detached house. We have an EV, currently on the octupus intelligent tariff. no solar or battery storage... Work from home most of the time. Is it worth making the switch at this price? House is 4 yrs old, well built as part of a small development of 6 houses and well insulated. Is it likely to add to the value of the house of put off prospective buyers?

[@trashertrisher]

We got quotes 1138 for a 3 bed detached, but I still think it was a good price, but I'm in the same boat, EV, WFH, no solar, no battery. I'm just hoping it works out cheaper than gas.

[@abegosavi6462]

@@trashertrisher our neighbours are having it installed this week so we might see how they get on with it first haha. Although they have solar and battery storage installed too. British gas are doing the install.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi both, ~£1100 is about a cheap as you might get a heat pump installed, so that sounds like a good deal. I have seen one octopus install near me and they are very happy with what has gone in. New properties like the ones you have should be fairly well insulated so the heat pump should be quite small, as long as you can run the heat pump efficiently, ie at low flow temperatures, it should be cheaper to run than a gas boiler. What manufacturer are they proposing? Are they changing radiators? New tank? My wife works from home, and we are much more comfortable with the constant heat from a heat pump rather than the peaks and troughs we used to have from a boiler. Hope that is helpful Tom

[@abegosavi6462]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks for the reply Tom! So the heatpump they are installing is Daikan branded one, the new octupus branded heat pump is not available for us yet. And yes new tank installed too. We have a mix of underfloor heating on main floor then radiators everywhere else, I believe the install would include radiator upgrades if needed. Definitely will see what neighbour's experience is like before proceeding. Thanks, Abe

[@fbeale3537]

What was the total cost of supply and fit the heat pump system?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi fbeale3537, total cost of the installation was about £11k, so this would be £6k after the boiler upgrade scheme grant Thanks Tom

[@Evphonehome]

Hey, just wondering what power (kW) your heat pump is and if it’s a high temperature one or not? Did you replace radiators?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello - we have a 5 kW Arotherm plus from Vaillant - www.vaillant.com/home/products/air-to-water-heat-pump-system-arotherm-plus-12096.html I think technically this is a high temperature heat pump, and can heat hot water to whatever we want it to be (i.e. above 60°C). We did change some radiators but they are not significant in size, double panelled (rather than triple). There are probably things we could do to increase radiator size and I may have done that if we did it again... Thanks Tom

[@davidjones190]

My mates put one in 12 years ago he was very keen all going well for the first three years then air flow pump failed and he needed a new one 6 1/2 thousand pounds. That one also failed, just under three years old, but was still in warranty, so he had another new one. he and his wife are 75 years of age and they can take up to 5 to 6 weeks to replace his nervous about this one breaking down and is thinking about a back up gas boiler. to be honest, it’s put me right off!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

HI David, thanks for the comment. I suspect that systems may have changed and I hope improved over the last 12 years. Although I agree I would be very frustrated with a failed heat pump. Ours has worked well for the 1st 2.5 years. There shouldn't have to be a 5-6 week wait to replace a unit, particularly if plumbing and electrics are all in the right place. There are also much more engineers / installers available today than there were 12 years ago. Thanks for engaging with the video, we need to reduce emissions linked to our heating so I hope you will be gaining some more confidence in heat pumps asap! Tom

[@davidjones190]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle hi Tom, thanks for your comments by coincidence. Another friend who is on benefits is having solar and heat pump fitted in the next few months. The government is paying and it’s come to £46,000. This includes insulating the house and some of the work which is to help the environment, I’ll keep you posted to see how successful in the world he finds it with modern equipment

[@damianbutterworth2434]

WOW. You use 10 kilowatts a day on average just for the heating. I use 2 kilowatts a day total and burn free wood for heating and hot water. I use solar panels which I fitted a solar immersion inverter to send spare energy to the hot water tank. So my total energy bill a month is about £27.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Damien, yes in average for heating and hot water that’s about right. Your life sounds fun, although not sure sustainable for most people to heat using wood. And there are issues linked to air quality with wood burning. But definitely cheaper than our set up!

[@damianbutterworth2434]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleI use a so called ECO stove. I don`t burn as much wood as I used to as I`ve insulated the interior walls with 50mm of kingspan. It`s a 200 year old house with double brick walls. And I use smokeless fuel on really cold nights as well. I did make an off grid set up about 15 years ago with 6 caravan batteries and 2 kilowatts of solar. Much like a canal boat but bigger. I got my electric bill down to £3 a month and EON was round all the time being nosey. :)

[@Klaus-777]

Please answer this question. How often do they need serviced and what is the cost? Thank you 🙏

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Klaus - we have had our heat pump serviced once a year, initially this was included in the cost of the installation. Going forward, I do not know! I will find out in the summer...!

[@Klaus-777]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle ok great and thanks :)

[@o00scorpion00o]

The moral of the story is keep your Gas boiler and save money over very expensive heat pump, after all most electricity is generated with Gas in the first place, Coal, Oil etc. So heat pump makes no sense from an environmental view, unless you got an expensive solar array but then again in Winter that's not much use unless you can export a lot of excess in Summer to the Grid and buy back. I chose another route, Klover pellet boiler stove, delighted with it. I live in an inefficient bungalow and it was by far the cheapest option compared to spending a fortune on insulation and air tightness necessary to justify a heat pump. I get the pellets from a local saw mill here in Ireland which tell me the U.K is their largest market for pellets. The greatest thing about the pellet stove is that the house is much warmer than you'd find the average house with a heat pump.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Scopion - thanks for engaging with the video. Not sure I follow your conclusions... In the UK over half of electricity is generated from low carbon sources. But even if electricity was made from gas power stations, a heat pump would still use less gas than a gas boiler so in terms of energy security etc, it would make sense to move to heat pumps. As it is today, a heat pump in the UK reduces heating emissions by about 70%, reducing with every new wind turbine or solar installation. We don't have a solar PV array on our house, but I still think we are saving vs a gas boiler giving the same heat. Fair enough on your pellet boiler, I am concerned about the air quality impacts of burning things in a domestic setting, and where the pellets are imported from, if you are getting them locally, great, and you are lower emissions than a gas boiler so ... well done. Just to clarify, we live in a victorian house with double glazing and loft insulation, this isn't a huge amount of insulation improvements or plugging draughts, there is more we could do. Why would a pellet stove make a house warmer than a heat pump? The house gets as warm as you set it to on the thermostat...? Thanks for the comment, some of what you have assumed about heat pumps isn't accurate, but interesting to hear a different approach Thanks Tom

[@marcellop3163]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Who cares about the Co2 emissions leave that to brainwashed greeniacs, we only want to know it you really save money with these heat pumps or not, period.

[@Fatsimbacat]

What about the noise pollution and the yearly maintenance and does it really work for a couple who are out at work all day and don't need the house heated constantly

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Noise is fine in our system, I did a video about it kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaTVco2DYtGXf5osi=NGyH8Qqs-ZuVindw I think you can probably make it work but it would need a shift in how you use heating. Maybe using set back temperatures rather than heating off when you’re out. What’s the plan if you didn’t get a heat pump?

[@Fatsimbacat]

Not sure, still doing the research but such a big initial outlay needs more certainty

[@davidclarke2513]

I've just been on a podcast with a very experienced plumber who has just given out his experience with these heat pumps and he pretty much given them a roasting regarding pretty much in every aspect ,he says that heat that is generated isn't giving the warmth inside the house as a modern gas boiler and as for solar panels it takes a minimum of 16 years to get a return on a household financial outlay and after their guarantee runs out how expensive they are to repair that they try and persuade people to install new panels so the costs are never ending as for moving away from coal that's a falicy ,just because the coal mines are shut doesn't mean that we aren't consuming coal we are just importing it and in the transport of bringing that coal to Britain means you are emailing more co2 into the air not less

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi david, thanks for the comment, what was the podcast you were on? I'd be happy to listen. Just to clarify, you commented on my video where I say that living with a heat pump for the last two years has increased our comfort, but you trust a plumber who sounds like he wants to avoid change? Solar panels and payback... it really depends on how much of what you generate you can use at home, but with the high energy costs we have seen over the last year or so, 16 years might be on the high side. But you could do the maths, average domestic solar system is about 3.5 kWp, that would generate about 3000 kWh per year in the UK, if you were able to use half of that so you avoided buying from the grid, and if the price of electricity was 25p per kWh, then that would be saving £375 per year, the rest, that you export, also has some value, with some energy suppliers paying a 'smart export guarantee' of up to 15p per kWh, some less, that would be up to £225 per year for what you don't use. So you could be saving £600 per year. A 3.5 kWp system, could cost £7-8,000, so payback would be 13 years. If you were able to make any use of solar power to charge an electric car, or to help power a heat pump, you would use more and therefore save more, and payback would be shorter. Solar panel repair - it is very unlikely that you would need to repair a solar system, maybe replace an inverter, but a full repair, no. Panels have a guaranteed warranty of 25 years, but would still generate well past that. Coal - if you look at a website like www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/, you can see that coal power was responsible for 1% of our electricity in the last year. Our electricity grid has rapidly decarbonised over the last 15 years, and will continue to get lower emissions over the next 15 years. Overall, your comment suggests heat pumps don't heat, ours works well in a property form the 1870s, you make a point about solar PV payback that is a bit extreme, you think we use coal in the UK in a manner we used to, that isn't true, and you seem to think reducing emissions isn't a priority. We don't agree on much! Thanks Tom

[@David-bl1bt]

The key words, conveniently omitted when stating gas boiler efficiency is " when in condensing mode". Just like heat pumps this figure is continually variable and dependent upon many factors. The stated efficiency of gas boilers is based upon the best performance parameters possible, WHEN THE BOILER IS IN CONDENSING MODE. The parameter that determines the maximum efficiency is that the return water temperature is required to be less than 54 degrees Celsius, as condensing will only occur when a change of state (of the exhaust flue gasses in this case) occur. The state of change for maximum effeciency is from a gas to a liquid when the flue gasses are at "dew point", around 30 degrees centigrade (variable). At this state change, the latent heat contained within the exhaust flue gasses is extracted, thus increasing efficiency as more heat is extracted from the volume of gas burned. So, as this efficiency can only be achieved whilst these parameters are in place, the additional metric to consider on how efficient a gas boiler is, is the length of time that the boiler is in this actually operating in this magical "condensing mode". This is extremely complex to accurately determine but what is certain, is that a gas boiler will NEVER be in condensing mode 100% of the time it is in use. Firstly, Combi boilers do not condense in hot water mode. They produce hot water "on demand" and will heat the incoming mains water to around 60 degrees centigrade, so will not be condensing. When providing heating via radiators the boiler will not be at its quoted efficiency for the whole time that it is providing heating. In reality, in the majority of such heating installations, condensing mode will only be achieved for a relatively short period of time, typically 5-15 mins from firing from cold. To achieve maximum efficiency the return temperature must be maintained at lower than 54 degrees C ALL THE TIME.....this NEVER occurs. Why? Well, unfortunately we are a nation of lazy heating engineers. To achieve these magical figures, the heating system must be designed to satisfy many parameters. Firstly the exact heat loss of each and every room must be fastidious calculated taking into account the syructure, fabric and u-values of all the dirrering materials used. Then the radiators must be accurately sized to ensure that they align exactly with those calculated figures. Then the system design must be such to achieve the required flow rate to achieve the 'delta t 'required to align with the radiator manufacturers figure to ensure that the radiators are able to achieve the manufacturers design temperature output. That done, it is now possible to calculate the heating load that must be satisfied by the boiler, thereafter a boiler with EXACTLY that specification needs to be identified. So far, so good, job done! WAIT .... it isn't installed yet! The installer now needs to ensure that the designed system is installed as such to ensure that it aligns with the design, so needs to take in account pipe sizing, routing, calculating flow resistance of each circuit (the number of bends and fittings used affect the resistance and thus flow rate around the system, also being mindful not to leave any burrs where pipes are cut or and dents or kinks when installing). Phew! a sigh of relief when this stage is reached! All that needs to be done now that all that has been achieved is commission the system, then hand it over to the delighted homeownner....except, the system requires accurate and tedious balancing to ensure that all these parameters are reached. Remember the magic number mentioned earlier? A 54 deg C return temperature is required for the boiler to START condensing, so our Installer needs to accurately balance the system to achieve this figure to get the maximum efficiency right?....well, no.... At this return temperature the boiler will not be fully condensing and will only be 87% efficient! So wheres the claimed 95%+ efficiency then? Well to achieve 95%+ efficiency the return temperatures must be 45 deg C. To achive this the flow temperature from the boiler must be at a maximum of 65°C, 20°C of heat must be emitted I to each room from the radiators, to ensure the return water is at 45°C. This makes radiator balancing vitally important to ensure that sufficient heat is emitted from radiators in every room to lower the return temperature to 45 deg C. Boilers are typically set by manufacturers to provide a flow temperature of 80 deg C and return at 60 degC. At these settings the boiler does not condense and it certainly will never reach 90%+ efficiency! Notwithstanding the above, another factor preventing a boiler reaching anywhere near the quoted efficiency is output oversizing. It is a culture on the UK to oversize boilers! Installers choose this practice as a safeguard, because they will not have undertaken all, or indeed any necessary design steps detailed above to achieve the correct system design, so they oversize output to cover their back, or if fitted as a replacement boiler, will simply size the output of he new boiler to match that of the old one being removed or even to appease the homeowner to match their expectation (see below). Homeowners are also part of the problem too. If they are getting quotes for a replacement boiler they expect it to be at least the same size (in output) or bizarrely even bigger! ....because they perceive it to be better! An installer quoting for a smaller output boiler is highly likely to be looked upon with suspicion, cutting corners to save costs to achieve a sale perhaps? Oversize boilers waste gas due to continual "cycling", their minimum output will be far in excess of that required for condensing purposes so will NEVER reach their quoted efficiency either. Then there is the issue of adequate controls to ensure efficiency is maintained. Controls, again, need to be accurately specified and correctly installed. Typically, adequate controls will not be specified or quoted by the installer to keep their quote competitive, and if offered as an option, are often declined by the homeowner to save costs. Trv's are the norm here on the UK, probably the least appropriate control of all. An easy sell and simple fit for the installer, certainly, but remember talking about the importance of accurate system balancing earlier? Well these "controls" severely impact system balance thus negating all their "perceived " benefits, and as there is no communication between them and the boiler it cannot accurately adjust for the reduced system load that is induced when they operate......so zero chance of achieving anywhere near the efficiency that you were told and expecting. So, now knowing all the above, it's obvious to the Intelligent, that there should not be any "boiler replacements " because the system that was installed a decade and a half or more will not have been designed or installed to fulfil the parameters of todays hi-tec condensing boilers and cannot achieve perceived or quoted efficiencies. Perhaps you, dear reader, have had a replacement gas boiler installed with the expectation of a 95%+ efficiency? Just a dream and a misleading marketing ploy I'm sorry to say. Considering having a new has boiler installed? ..... It's time to get your pen and pad out to document pertinent (aka embarrassing) questions for your installer when quoting you for your new all singing, all dancing state if the art, high efficiency gas boiler. Here are starter questions for you to consider... Q1. What output is the boiler you are installing? Q2. What efficiency can I expect from this boiler? Q3. Can you show me your calculations for room by room heat loss, radiator outputs and the suitability of this boiler in providing the design temperature, system design schematic detailing pipe sizing calculations, flow rates and flow & return temperatures? Q4. What controls and other measures are you putting in place to ensure that the efficiency that you have quoted can be maintained. ... if you are still engaged in meaningful discussion after these questions...Congratulations ... you may have stumbled upon a rare. professional installer who knows exactly what they are doing, however I suspect that the price that they quote will be way out of the competetive ballpark figure you were expecting.

[@bordersw1239]

Four bed detached house, 4 occupants minimum, total gas bill £680 for the year - flow turned down to around 55C , less for the shoulder months.

[@simon7790]

Hi Tom, good vid, thanks. We have 3.5KWP solar and I modelled our solar production against heat demand by week in KWH. We're still on gas at the moment. Solar already mostly heats our hot water anyway, at least most of the year. Basically for Dec, Jan and Feb solar comes nowhere close to meeting the electricity demand if we had a heat pump. Solar production in Dec and Jan can be

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Simon, absolutely agree that solar is not the solution for supporting heat pumps in the depths of winter, where it comes into play nicely is in those 'shoulder' months of spring and autumn where we are heating but also get some daylight for generation. And then we would generate more in the summer that we wouldn't be able to use but would provide all our hot water and potentially miles in a car or e-bike.... Solar can supplement heat pumps nicely, but absolutely won't generate all the energy needed to meet the heat pump demand Thanks Tom

[@simon7790]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom, yeah, I agree it would be useful in the shoulder months. I looked at our degree days and mapped it against solar production by day for last winter. Because I don't know the U values for the house or heat loss Watts/Kelvin. I just compared degree days versus solar production *3 (to imply how much heat in KWH an ASHP could supply using just solar). Really poor methodology, but it did give some indicative results that matched well with what we encountered. Which was that in Dec/Jan/Feb on only a few days per month would a decent chunk of the heat demand on a ASHP be met by solar, but that rises substantially from March onwards obviously as it's relatively warmer and lighter and the tipping point is reached. Nothing we don't already know, but still. If you don't have solar data then maybe using MIDAS Open solar data, or data from a someone local to you with solar data would help. You'd have a good working model to tell you how much of your electricity demand you could meet from solar, and maybe it could help spec your array size.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

You should get an AC coupled storage battery, prices reasonable now about 3 or 4k for a smallish one but makes such a difference in winter on cheap overnight tariff of 7.5p / kwh.

[@simonstead8495]

For ever since I can remember, electricity has been 3x the price of gas; with a CoP of 3 heat pumps usually break even if you not on a special tariff. Then SUDDENLY in July gas prices fell much more than electricity (at least here in E Mids), making electricity 4x gas prices. Any one know why? It makes heat pumps not so great, however we are still very likely to take the plunge.

[@smee3255]

You could always install an air to air heat pump (air conditioner) and disconnect yourself from water based heating. Or you could install an MVHR and re-use heat that would otherwise be going to waste…

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Yeah that is possible. Although difficult to serve lots of rooms from a multi-split system. And yes an MVHR could be really helpful Tom

[@Johny40Se7en]

It's well worth spending the money or having grants from the government to install more efficient insulation than this. If you live in a smaller house or flat, there's no way there's gonna be enough space to install all that stuff. Maybe when all the large components are reduced in size similar to how gas boilers did, then it's likely off the table for many. I've seen some of the tanks that air source heat pumps use and they're as big as the old airing cupboard tank we once had, it's ridiculous...

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I’m not sure I agree and have done a video a bit in this …. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIebeH6BjMeEbqssi=zQPLyhyGCiZpUAe_

[@tonyfeasby1437]

Love the man maths. Gas is 4p or less on Oct variable currently. I'm in favour of ashp and just had a survey last week but genuine savings on bills are touch & go especially considering capital costs

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

'man maths' is a bit much! That was the price guarantee rate that I have been paying for my gas use on our hob over the last year. The flexible Octopus tariff I am on is now down to 7.43p per kWh. I guess the message I am trying to get across is the substantial CO2 savings, with monthly costs reduction, a bonus. There isn't necessarily a 'payback' with our system on a bills savings basis, but that doesn't consider the potential increase in value of our house, the marginal improvement in air quality, the increase in comfort and the reduction in emissions. And then the potential of coupling with solar, or a scheme like Ripple Energy, could be often some good savings. Our neighbour has just installed a big PV array, heat pump and battery, after a full year of bills, I think their costs will be very low... Thanks Tom

[@MrReakes123]

Hey tom! So whats the situation with the water storage for baths,showers and sinks etc. do you need a big tank fitted in the garden or loft to store the hot water? And do you ever find yourself running out of hot water? Thanks!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi MrReakes123 - good question, and I would say this is the biggest change for us, yes we installed a hot water tank that seems to meet all our hot water demand, and is programmed to always keep the water ready for use (so is replenishing as we use it). It did take a small change in mindset, and it does take up some space that used to be storage. Thanks Tom

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Nice, but the cost of installation far outstrips the savings to be made a couple of hundred quid a year will take 15 years to recoup £3000 assuming the installation is £8000 and the government grant of £5000 is used. We have solar and a small 5Kw battery (no grants, no government help) making most of our power during the summer months here in Halifax, enough to run our home washing machine, dryer, ninja (we rarely use the oven now) plus top off the car and house battery. Both battery and car are charged again on Octopus cheap rate at night assuming they need any power top-up. I wish we could afford a heat pump to get rid of the gas supply but the savings are not good enough to justify this and being retired means a fixed income with nothing left over to invest in the equipment. It would make more sense to increase our battery storage from 5Kw to 10 Kw so we don’t need to top up overnight in the summer months. If governments were really interested in decarbonising the UK they would offer 70% grants and 30% low cost loans to cover both solar and heat pump installations for homes and offices but as we all know political parties of most colours are funded primarily by the oil and big business so we will continue to see lavish grants for oil exploration and power plants which no-one wants with a few lip service offerings towards going green. We live at a time when political manoeuvring and point scoring is more important than doing the right thing. It’s all about staying in power rather than doing the jobs we pay our political masters in parliament to do. Maybe the next election we can coin a new slogan “Do You Jobs” that would be nice !

[@derekpaisley620]

Great video, I am in the North East and invested in solar and a battery. Looking at the heat pump now to reduce carbon and increasing efficiency. Can I ask what the heat loss is on you're properly?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Derek, thanks for the comment, and pleased to hear you are looking at heat pumps. Couple with solar and a battery, you'd be likely to reduce costs compared to heating with a gas boiler. Heat loss for us was just over 5 kW at -2°C. We are a 3 bed mid terrace house, built in the ~1880s but with some insulation improvements (double glazing, loft insulation and an extension to modern building regs). Would be great to hear how you get on with installers in the North East Tom

[@davidestate]

IF you save money, you have to deduct the cost of the heat pump. Savings started after you have fully paid for the heat pump. In Canada a Heat pump cost from $3000 to $10,000 and even while saving, the actually savings will come later.

[@examinerian]

Excellent result,Tom! If the reassessments fall my way on pension, I will be going for the full 4-way switch (if you count my Aptera) so hopefully by late decade this already pretty efficient 5-bed detached can switch over to ASHP/PV/storage. If things don't go my way, it'll take a bit longer. I already see downward movement in the prices of heat pumps, though it's more than just the one item when redesigning the system - thermal storage has to be put back in, either HW cylinder, phase change, I've even seen a swimming pool as a heat buffer (but not that last one for us...😅). Running our combi at high-40s flow temp has shown us that we need to replace 4 rads (could get away with 3), though actually this place is a mess of different pipe sizes, so I'd put the whole thing back to 15mm. This year's usage is looking similar to last year's, so perhaps we've gone as far as we can with boiler tweaks - next winter will be the interesting point, after lowering the boiler output to something more realistic than 35kW!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great stuff Ian, would be interesting to see where you end up! And happy to try out a pool when you get one… 😂

[@salibaba]

An FYI something I picked up on my journey. Phase change CAN work with an ASHP but it’s not efficient as the Phase change material needs a high temp 60c+ to work. You’d need a high temp ASHP which you might otherwise not need. Plus they both are much more expensive. Far simpler (and cheaper upfront + running) to go with a standard tank. I found out thanks to Emile @ecobubbl now on @fullycharged. @evmanuk has a Vaillant system you may like with a built in cylinder all in one internal unit, about the size of a fridge freezer but in one tidy package.

[@examinerian]

@@salibaba Thanks! Maybe Sunamp and the rest are more useful to timeshift electrical heating loads instead? The combined unit sounds great, and would fit nicely in the place our boiler sits.

[@salibaba]

@@examinerian yes, we were 12.5K for our system with a mixergy (again not AS good (£) with ASHP but still efficient). With a higher power ASHP and a Sunamp we’d have added over £6k!! We do “charge” our cylinder at night timeshifting, lowering the cost as well as being more efficient. And we installed solar and battery before our ASHP so can run for a good chunk of the day using a contribution from solar and a massive chunk from the battery. All charges from cheap rate overnight. One big jigsaw.

[@examinerian]

@@salibaba Great information - I'll have plenty to think about when the time comes! 👍

[@neilbarnett3046]

Tom, where does the cold air go? Looks like it blows across your backyard, so is it always wet or cold there? If not, why not? It must be a bit of a pain when it's frosty or you want to sit in the sunshine but it's a cool day.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Neil - it is cool in front of the heat pump, but we don’t tend to spend much time outside when the heat pump is running, ie the winter. It is a small area impacted by air movement (about 1m), outside that, it’s difficult to notice. The air movement actually means the ground in front of the heat pump remains drier than the rest of our back yard! Really no pain, and you can notice the air is cooler but not a problem. I kind of answered your questions in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKnQeoqfeq-iis0si=HYeoFRXt7hMu5dyb Finally, the cool air goes to the same place as gas boiler exhausts. The atmosphere. It mixes with other air and recirculates back to the heat pump. A gas boiler just dumps fumes in the atmosphere 🤮

[@returner323617]

Well done. I'm just waiting for Radiators to be delivered, and then the ASHP will be installed by Octopus. It's Phase 4 of our personal decarbonisation journey - 1. Solar PV, 2. EV, 3. Home Battery - and I'm really looking forward to pulling the plug on Gas... Yes, in pure financial ROI, it's marginal, but there's a better picture and a moral obligation on these that can, and should.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Robert, that’s fantastic news. Well done! I wonder whether, with solar PV your ROI will be quite good. Free heat and free miles from your roof. Would be interested to hear how you get on over winter and what costs look like for you. Our next step, I think, will be an EV. Our 100,000 mile petrol car struggles through its MOT each year. I reckon the 2nd hand EV market is pretty much there for us to look at, soon! Thanks for engaging! All the best with the install Tom

[@petercollins7848]

There is nothing ‘moral’ about fitting a heat pump! You have simply made a choice. All this ‘saving the planet’ stuff is just a new religion which is being foisted on us by zealots. We will be using natural gas decades from now, believe me. People will not accept being bullied into vast expense and inconvenience.

[@ianpeddle6818]

The people two doors away have a heat pump - the noise is awful. We live in a rural area and every noise can be heard. We have electric central heating - silent and very efficient no need to alter the boiler etc. is your pump silent of very quiet?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Ian, just replied to your other comment but on noise... I did this video about how noisy ours is - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaTVco2DYtGXf5osi=HiNFIdOlql0tScOa I think it is fairly quiet, and not able to hear when it is in use during the winter. You can notice when you are stood next to it! What electric system do you have? Thanks Tom

[@myatix1]

Can I ask what type of cylinder you are using?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Myatix - we are using the Vaillant cylinder, 150litre slimline version, professional.vaillant.co.uk/specifiers/products/unistor-hot-water-cylinders-for-heat-pumps-53888.html Does the job for us! Tom

[@nigelhayes40]

Thanks for the review. Did you keep the heat pump constantly on and if so at what temperature?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Nigel, apologies for the slow reply to this comment. I have actually changed the way we run the heat pump over the last couple of years, from heating in a similar manner we used to with a gas boiler (certain hours of the day) to keeping the heat pump running long hours on a weather compensated curve. So yes, we now run the systems all the time to maintain 19°C in our kitchen / diner (the area we spend the most amount of time) and leave the heat pump to run 'low and slow' i.e. over long hours but not with a huge output, just trickling in heat rather. One unexpected benefit, is that it means we are much more comfortable. We don't have the peaks and troughs we used to and still using much less energy than we ever did Hope that makes sense! Thanks and Happy New Year Tom

[@daidavies6210]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleHe runs the heat pump all the time on low due to Expansion problems with them when not in constant use, They fail to operate at time after long periods of no usage…. You then have to call a engineer out to sort out the problem thats very expensive 3 x more than a Gas engineer would charge you,

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Dai, I’ve been living with a heat pump for 2.5 years now and not had to call an engineer out…? What do you mean? I have changed the way I run the heat pump but not for the reason you describe. Thanks for engaging with the video Tom

[@JohnBell-rf6oj]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Right in thinking, leaving HP 'on' doesn't necessarily mean 'running' all the time, but simply kicking in when it falls below your desired temperature, and 'low and slow' means maintaining temperature of the fabric of your home, so the HP doesn't have to reheat from cold all the time? BTW; You didn't mention whether you had to install larger pipework?

[@Divinefemininemiracles]

Hi I have a brand new gas boiler in old stone cottage I have been offered a 12kw samsung ashp plus insulation and 6 solar panels for free due to benefits , am wondering what to do? Gas boiler is LPG tanked due to living in the sticks I am on top of a hill I already have new radiators. I am really worried about costs of ashp as I have heard horror stories about cost to run. This is an energy scheme so i have no choice in brand etc.. advice needed pls

[@stephendoherty8291]

While you are getting some saving over a gas boiler you forget the higher capital cost of a installing a HP (even with a grant). So presuming both the boiler and a heat pump cost was paid via a (fixed term low cost green loan if thats possible) then the cost of the HP was a higher overall cost (yes over a set payback term). You can't save on gas prices as its same cost 24/7 but there is potential as noted via tariffs for power use. There is some even more potential if you could use your EV car as the battery storage to feed back in peak power price times. I don't know what you invested in putting in the HP outside the HP unit itself but I doubt all the rads would have needed to be changed in a (now standard) "high efficiency" gas boiler. I would also be very hesitant to presume even a modern combi boiler (the most bought type in the UK now) is operating at such high 95% efficiency. In most cases rads are not changed, rads are not flushed out, few add TRVs and many use the existing thermostat (presuming its not the dark ages one). Few are condensing well due to weak installs (not bad but weaker than possible potential). Even less get weather compensation (more common if not standard in HP installs). Your best bet now is to see what can be done to boost the heat retention in such a home without changing its classic design. External insulation, cavity insulation, attic insulation, triple-E windows and doors, heat retention air extractors, hot water tape aerators, higher efficiency water pumps, pipe insulation, draft excluders and as noted HP refinement. One study by a university on HP installs is that all could gain meaningfull efficiency as near all were not operating at what they could save the user. Many are installed as if the humans inside the home were all the same, demand was the same, homes are much the same in X heat retention/loss. There are perhaps some water cylinder upgrades that may be on offer in future as innovation drives better water tank designs and demand for such.

[@richardgregory3684]

£194 (I assume per year) cheaper to run...so how long will it take to break even between the extra cost of a heat pump install and a gas boiler? A brand new replacement gas voiler can come in as low as £1500 and is a days work, or usually less. The upfront costs for heat pumps are huge - even when the tax payer is picking up half the bill, it's still much higher than a gas boiler and a lot of that is the labour involved. A heat pump means rerouting pipes to the outdoor unit, maybe upgrading radiators, installing a hot water tank (which lot sof peopel do not have, it;s why combi boilers are popular). And that's an airsource - a ground source, which is more efficient, costs a heck of a lot more. I'd be VERY surprised if the lower heating bills break even with the higher install costs before the heat pump reaches the end of it;s service life and has to be replaced.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Richard, thanks for engaging with the video. The cost of installation after the boiler upgrade scheme grant was about £6000, so a simple payback is about 31 years. This doesn't stack up just looking at bills savings. We currently still have a gas connection for our hob, but if we got rid of that and removed the meter we would save on gas standing charge as well, which would be another £100 a year. A few points to be conscious of, we currently subsidise gas when compared to electricity, if this changed or levies removed from electricity, the savings would be more. There are ways to reduce the cost of electricity through time of use tariffs, or subscriptions like ripple energy, or through local generation. The electricity market is ripe for disruption, and with more renewables coming online, prices could come down. So the ratio between gas and electricity is unlikely to remain as it is. This is not just a calculation on bill savings, but the improved air quality outside our back door, the improved comfort in our home, the reduced emissions we are responsible for, the reduction in reliance on gas that funds dodgy states all around the world. How do we quantify those benefits? I do not advocate for ground source heat pumps at an individual home / domestic level. Yes an air source heat pump could have upgraded internal pipework and radiators to run more efficiently, and a new hot water tank, new homes should have these installed as a minimum and not be installing gas boilers. But there is a huge potential for retrofit too. But from your comment, I read that you think we shouldn't be installing heat pumps. How should we reduce emissions linked to heat in the UK? If heat pumps aren't the answer, what is your plan? If you just have complaints about a technology that gives buildings a path to net zero, then I am afraid that doesn't cut the mustard in a climate emergency Thanks for the comment Tom

[@richardgregory3684]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Britain accounts for about 1% of global emissions. Donestic heating is about a fifth of that. Assuming all 30,000,000 homes switched to heat pumps at your quoted price of £6000 (I assume this included some sort of suvsidy grant?) that's £180 billion pounds. To reduce glocal emissions by 0.2% assuming those heat pumps are all powered by renewables, which at present they would not be, since Britain generates about half it;s electricity ia renewables, assuming a good day. On a cold, dark, windless winter day your heat pump is likely powered by gas fired power station (yes, I'm aware of the efficiency argument).

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Am afraid I’m going to have to get you to watch this video to begin with kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGjSppt8j71oY5Y&feature=shareb Should we just keep emitting? Keep poisoning our air? Keep funding oil and gas despots around the world? And keep risking climate change? To suggest that our emissions don’t matter is absurd! You say you’re aware of the efficiency argument so are advocating we waste energy? Waste resources? Waste money? For what reason?

[@jason6347]

Does a heat pump work on a mixer shower also or do you need to install a power shower on a new build . Will be looking to build soon just curious.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Jason, yes a heat pump can work with a mixer shower but you tend to need a hot water tank to generate hot water with a heat pump. Tom

[@bobbazley5376]

Hi Tom, thanks for the update and very interesting and looks like it is working very well for you. I have solar and battery and have Airconditioning units throughout the house as they do heat and have a slightly higher SCOP as a air to water solution (ASHP) Airconditioning units being Air to Air. they get installed next week. The main issue with Solar while it is absolutely is the way to go and absolutely get battery with it as that maximises the full potential, the winter sun is not good at a time when you have the most heat demand so while it is still great value you might not see as great a saving from solar in winter to meet the peak demand for your heating. Having said that if you match it with a battery it will give you the option to offset the time you charge the batteries with cheap Cosy rates and then use them in the evening for your heat demand. Sounds like you are on a great journey and thank you for sharing.

[@Deiphobuzz]

Those SCOP numbers need a little attention. At what temps do they reach their numbers? A decent Air to water heatpump is twice the size of an air to air AC unit. An AC typically does not have an SCOP close to a dedicated heatpump heating system.

[@chrisjones6542]

I’m not so sure I have fitted one of these in my living room (and similar in the kitchen), and they are pretty good… I have saved 1/2 the oil I used to use… and never turn the CH on in spring/autumn.. so for me (with a house full of micro bore) it’s working great

[@arvinkumar4407]

simple question, what kind of temperature do you get with your water and central heating when the weather was -3 degrees few months back? Did it heat your home to 21/22 degrees for as long as you needed it ? Because I read a few people saying theirs one struggled and was at 16/17 degrees. I am planning to get a heat pump and would like to hear some real life experiences.

[@alennovak8446]

Thats what i was asking myself that question. I have 6kw ongrid solar system so it will be maybe cheeper for me but if i dont have heating as i need that its not worth it if i need to heat it up with aditionaly heater to get around 21°C in the house.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Both - thanks for the question. Short answer, yes the heat pump can heat to the temperature we set it to. For us that’s about 19/19.5°C but it could heat to higher if we set it to that. I did a video about the cold snap we had last month ‘How did our heat pump cope in a cold snap? Heat pump stats January 24’ kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6S4dGt3ls2Nibs You’ll be able to see that I changed some settings when temperatures first dropped but the system was able to heat to what we asked it too. Hope that’s helpful?

[@arvinkumar4407]

Thanks @@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I just had a look at the video, does your Heat Pump run 24 hours a day, or at least as long as it needs to run to maintain the 18-19.5°C? Or is it like a lot of us would do with our boiler, that is set it to heat couple of hours in the morning and afternoon / evening ? Would combining a Heat Pump with Solar Panel give me much more savings that using a boiler? My boiler packed up this week and I am at the point of deciding if I should get another boiler or a Heat Pump. We have kids in the house and our insulations are more or less ok, with new double glazing fitted in Dec 2022.

[@maciekzeus82]

In Poland was - 21 deg 2 months ago and heat pumps still cope

[@benbrown3782]

Hi, is it possible to pay for the remainder of the cost of a heat pump/installation through installments - assuming a government grant application has been successful?

[@Johnharpdalton]

Dear Tom, thanks for your presentation, very well argued. I have a three four, four-bed mid terrace, Victorian. Can I ask your opinion, please? I have been offered (free to me) the following: solar roof panels, all new rads, inner wall and loft insulation, air source heat pump (and giant water tank). The current gas heating is very effective and can warm the place from cold in ten minutes. Do you think there is any reason not to accept this grant-offer? Thanks for any thought. Best wishes, John D. I am not influenced by the 'decarbonising' argument in any way.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi John, thanks for commenting. That sounds like a fantastic offer. Heating with a heat pump will be different to what you are used to, but my experience is improved comfort. Heat pumps running efficiently are unlikely to have as rapid heat up time, but if sized and installed well, will be able to heat your home. And with the new insulation the house will lose a lot less heat. With solar panels too, your costs will be very low. I would say this is a great opportunity to reduce costs, future proof the house and improve comfort. Thanks Tom (ps - AND, you will reduce emissions by 75%+, which although you are not influenced by that, is something to celebrate!)

[@methylene5]

But what about the gas boilers at the power station generating all that CO2 producing electricity at only around 30% efficiency to generate all that electricity to run the HP? That's what people ignore. At least with a gas boiler, that's the only CO2 released.

[@stevemorris1881]

Hi Tom great post, but I would like to see more about what temperature you keep you home at and how quickly you can heat a cold house to say 21deg C, same for the hot water, I use lots of hot water and would need a system that could heat a tank of water in 20 to 30 minutes. Is your system capable to do that 👍

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Steve, thanks for following up. We keep the house at about 19°C (that is what we are comfortable at), and after 3 years of living with the heat pump have settled on keeping it at that temperature all the time, unless we go away. This is the most efficient way to run the system, so compared to the first year when I had set back temperatures, we have used less electricity but delivered more heat and maintained comfort throughout the winter. So answering the question on how quickly it can heat a cold house to 21°C, is difficult to answer.... and depends how the system is set up. A heat pump can be set up like a gas boiler, to run 'hot' but inefficiently and lift the temperature of a space up quickly, but it tends to use much less energy if just supplying enough heat to deal with heat loss. So I suggest we would not let a house get cold, unless unoccupied for a long period of time. In terms of hot water, our system has provided all the hot water we have needed when we need it. There is also an immersion coil within the tank that can provide hot water quickly where required. We would tend to store water at a level ready to be used whenever needed, and size the tank to provide hot water as required. So, short answer is - yes a heat pump can provide all the hot water needed, longer answer.... 20-30 mins from a cold tank... probably not, but we would be unlikely to keep water cold in a tank.... Hope that is helpful Tom

[@Divinefemininemiracles]

Hi I have a brand new gas boiler in old stone cottage I have been offered a 12kw samsung ashp plus insulation and 6 solar panels for free due to benefits , am wondering what to do? Gas boiler is LPG tanked due to living in the sticks I am on top of a hill I already have new radiators. I am really worried about costs of ashp as I have heard horror stories about cost to run. This is an energy scheme so i have no choice in brand etc.. advice needed pls

[@thesecretauthor9983]

Tom you are a star, already an Octopus customer and loved there green package. Wife is just about to move in to a detached bungalow and asked me about heat pump - so you have helped me as I agree very mixed views. Normally when government scheme it’s not really good idea. Only thing I am trying to work out is summers are getting hotter and thinking air to air heat pump. Going to research

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello Secret Author - thanks so much for taking the time to comment, apologies it has taken me an age to come back to you! I can see the attraction in an air to air system, particularly with future heat. Daikin do a system that has 'floor standing' emitters that look a bit like conventional radiators - www.daikin.co.uk/en_gb/residential/products-and-advice/product-categories/air-conditioners.html#tabs-cd671d05da-item-2b7718988d-tab An air to air system will give a different experience in terms of comfort to a traditional radiator circuit heated by an air to water heat pump that is sometimes not to everyone's taste, but it can still keep you warm! Air to air systems aren't eligible for the boiler upgrade scheme, but I understand tend to be cheaper installations that many air to water systems. I would be interested to hear how you get on Thanks and happy new year! Tom

[@KavanOBrien]

Have you taken the cost of the heat pump into consideration ? Also can you tell me why valiant cost a lot less in Scotland? Are we the United Kingdom or not ? So six thousand pounds you paid out that’s a lot of money , would you not of been better spending that on battery storage.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Kabanobrien6547 - cost of the installation was £11k (before the government grant). Not sure why Vaillant would be cheaper in Scotland. We are a United Kingdom I agree. In terms of CO2, a battery doesn’t do much, but a heat pump decreases emissions linked to heat by 65-70%. Battery storage may have helped my back pocket.

[@joewentworth7856]

I think the Scottish gov have additional grants we don't have in England. Hence its cheaper..

[@joewentworth7856]

It is alot of money. But it is to be expected as early adopter. Those who can afford it are helping reduce future costs for others. It's is also due to a change to the heating design. The cost of moving from gas fires to combis in the 70s and 80 would have been a significant outlay too.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@joewentworth7856 Are you implying that the cost will come down with more being sold ? If electric cost go up that would make the heat pumps not a good idea? Noticed last winter my electric cost more than my gas , going forward the electricity cost could make the heat pump inefficient? How much grant can I get or how much grant did you get ? What is criteria is it based on age or other things ? Hope you don’t mind me asking so much, my knowledge of this is zero so can only get better should be on one soon, so we are not one nation if Scotland has bigger grants , is that not discrimination, when my father and my six uncles fought in the Second World War it was for one nation.

[@donincognito189]

@@KavanOBrien There's this thing called "devolution". It means the devolved governments of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales can make different tax and spending decisions to England within certain limits. In England the heatpump grant is £5k (or £6k for a ground-source heatpump). In Scotland the grants are up to £7.5k or £9k if you live in a remote rural area.

[@BB-zi5wi]

Are u also up to date with the trivalent 100% organic & gluten free covid boosters?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Well that wins an award for one of the strangest comments I have had on this channel… please do share your email so I can send the award! Not sure what you mean? Reading between the lines, you think that Covid vaccinations are a conspiracy, and my video on reducing costs and emissions linked to heating, is a similar conspiracy? I’d love to see your working!

[@wobby1516]

Your wrong about solar, the reason being panels generate most of their power during the warmer summer months. They will help but in the winter, but even when the suns out the panels produce about a quarter of their summer output, when clouds are about almost nothing. Much more important is to install a good sized battery 20 kWh that way you can avail of octopus’s cheap night rate electricity. Trust me I know as I’ve had solar and one Powerwall for the last 4 years. Now just had fitted a second Powerwall and soon a heatpump. Good luck on your journey 👍

[@chrisjames509]

For me its not about immediate outlay of cost. Its about purchasing things that when i retire means my pension money goes further and i am not held to ransome by world events. For me its a toss up between investing in the market and getting some extra income or investing in my home so i have less to spend out a month so my ok pension goes further.

[@telboyofpeckham]

What a clear & informative video. Take into consideration that gas prices will rise much faster than electricity and how much cleaner it is. Especially with the new installation that I have to do on my new home (gas boiler has been condemned) , the grants available, it's a no brainer.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for taking the time to comment! Pleased to hear you are thinking the same way!

[@robertsmith9810]

ONCE you have taken the governments pieces of silver grant their is no going back to gas or oil just saying ,hope all go`s well

[@petercollins7848]

I hope that you have taken into consideration the initial outlay, minus the government grant of course, before you start making ‘savings’. Also the ongoing maintenance and future replacement of parts of the system as it wears. These things are still in their infancy and to take a leap where you cannot go back seems risky!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Peter, not sure telboyofpeckham mentions savings...? But with your multiple comments I am starting to think you have something to gain by casting doubt into other people's actions? Do you want us to keep using gas? Funding Putin? Poisoning our skies? And risking climate change? Commenting on multiple other people's comments on an obscure youtube account is fairly odd behaviour.... are you ok?@@petercollins7848

[@petercollins7848]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I am very OK, thank you. I don’t think it is strange to comment on other people’s submissions when I think they are promoting something that is going to turn out to a big mistake for a large number of people and is being sold to us as a way of ‘saving’ and saving the planet. I am not against heat pumps for one minute, in fact the opposite when they are installed in the right situations. But now we see that British Gas and Octopus Energy are now pushing these things to the whole country. They are ‘guaranteeing’ that people will have the same temperatures or they will take them out. This is brave talk indeed and I feel it will come back to bite them - we shall see won’t we? My motive in replying to multiple comments is simply to inform other people of the realities of fitting a heat pump, both financially and performance-wise, before they take an expensive ‘leap’! All these issues are well known by those in the know, but not always by customers contemplating fitting an ASHP. I would have thought that to be transparent would be in everyone’s interest. As I have said in a previous comment, I would have an ASHP immediately if it could match my boiler performance and could be installed in my situation (a flat). As far as keeping using gas - Yes, I do think we should, and it will be with us for many decades yet. Also the electricity to run people’s heat pumps is being generated by gas too don’t forget if the wind does not blow, and even if it does it is only a percentage of electrical generation and will remain that way for some considerable time. And we are not ‘poisoning the skies’, people are living longer than ever before. As far as Putin is concerned, we have reduced our gas supply from Russia to next to nothing and are concentrating on our own home gown energy resources and this will only increase. We need also to keep looking for oil, as oil is in everything that makes the modern world - even heat pumps! Without oil we would would return to the Middle Ages. So I believe my approach of caution and evaluating the cost effectiveness of heat pumps is the rational and sensible view to take.

[@gadger99]

We have an electric boiler as our house is all electric so we are really hoping it would save us a fortune, we are looking at getting the heat pump through octopus energy who we are with 😊

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That's brill, your bills _should_ be about 1/3rd of existing when you get a heat pump. If it is designed, installed and commissioned well!

[@gadger99]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Thanks for the reply.

[@davidt3321]

Hi Tom. Great video. You can only really look at this as a carbon saving. I have thought about this from a cost saving side of things, and with the heat pump batteries and solar panels, it is roughly a 20k outlay. With the solar installed since April I've saved 1.08T to date of c02 based on what the apps telling me. So still a substantial carbon saving. But unfortunately the heat pump cost is just not viable right now

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi David, thanks for the comment and engaging with the video. I think a £194 saving on bills is worth celebrating, even if that wouldn't have paid for the installation! So the CO2 saving + the small bills saving, on a heat pump that people say won't work in an old property, I am pretty chuffed with that. The quick way to work out CO2 savings for solar would be multiply the kWh generated by 0.2 kg CO2 per kWh, that will give you a value in kg for the system. If 1.08 tCO2 is right, that would be around 5,500 kWh of electricity. Must be saving you a fortune! Next step is to electrify heat or transport so you can make as much use of that electricity as possible. But understand that we can't do everything at the same time, we don't have PV or an EV yet but will hope too soon! Tom

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleAnd remember that gas prices will go up.

[@Brynoize]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle You what mate? £200 is an average call up on a Friday night who cares?. But in all seriousness, CO2 saving needs to consider the carbon footprint of installation and manufacturing of your equipment. Would it be better to service an old gas boiler than install this new system?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi @@Brynoize thanks for the reply. As I mentioned, £200 saving is a bonus on top of the emissions savings that the heat pump gives, even with the embodied emissions of a heat pump. This article helps explain why - foresightdk.com/why-i-replaced-my-new-gas-boiler-with-a-heat-pump/ Ultimately, no it would not be better to service an old gas boiler than install a new system, you will lock in emissions that will never reduce, a heat pump would pay for itself in emissions terms in less than 2 years, and continue to reduce in emissions as the grid decarbonises. It is good to service an old boiler from a safety perspective, and you may increase some efficiency, but it isn't going to reduce emissions substantially Thanks Tom

[@deborahperry7199]

Hi Tom, thanks for your video, I have been reading and hearing conflicting views on heat pumps. I have been given a govt grant of heat pump and a radiator in every room. Ideally I would like to go 'off grid' with solar panels and a battery. Do you know what the cost of a battery would be? And do you know if there are any differences in battery type or solar panels please?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Deborah, thanks for commenting, and good question. Costs for solar and battery systems change an awful lot depending on what you are installing, MCS has some data on this page about average costs - datadashboard.mcscertified.com/InstallationInsights. I would say an average sized solar panel + battery installation could be around £8,000. There are lots of different battery manufacturers that are more or less using the same technology (Lithium Ion) to make the batteries, some will have better 'smart' features or app integration. The main difference in price for different batteries will be the amount of storage or size of battery i.e. bigger battery, high cost. There won't be much difference between types of solar panels in terms of quality or generation. Most (although not all) solar panels are made in China so come from similar companies. Installing solar and battery can help drive costs for heating with a heat pump down, but being 'off grid' would take a very big battery and a very big solar installation. And, because of the steps forward in cleaning up the electricity grid, we can rely on clean electricity from the grid without our own solar panels and battery. I did a video recently about solar - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoi6m2qpj8ylZs0 - the conclusion being that a heat pump is the best step to reduce emissions you can take! And solar helps reduce costs but doesn't really reduce emissions. So well done for moving to a heat pump! I hope that is a helpful response? Thanks Tom

[@demon33]

Solar panels are useless during the winter. In sept I get 2kw per day from a 4kw array with a 10kw battery, I am able to charge at night rates and use during the day. Heat pump would be useless in my house, it is a 1960’s house, it has underfloor ventilation and the house is like a wind tunnel. It would never be able to warm the house up.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Demon33 - thanks for the comment, yes, solar panels generate much less in winter, but I am surprised on your reduction in output for september...? You get 2 kWh on a sunny day in september? I would expect more like 25-30 kWh from a 4 kW array. Where solar panels can support heat pumps is those autumn and spring months where we still have day light but also need some heat. Our house is an 1870s Victorian house with ventilated floorboards and a heat pump works fine here. If sized and installed correctly there is not reason a heat pump couldn't heat your home. Thanks for the comment Tom

[@demon33]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom, thanks for the response, yes, on an average Sept through April day (where there is no sustained sun) I get about 2-3kw per day. The array is all south facing, so it's not its positioning, it's my lattitude which would be in line with slightly north of Leeds. On a typical sunny summers sunny day in May/June/July/Aug I can generate as much as 25kw. A very sunny day in Sept will get me upwards of 15kw (today is one of those days). The thing is, the days I need heating are the days when I generate 3Kw or less, not the days I generate 25kw. And that is my no. one issue with the heat pump. Second is that it can only gradually heat your home, so it requires decent insulation, that doesn't work for every home regardless of age. Lastly is the cost factor v return, for your house it looks like your happy with that cost v savings, but in my case I would need to spend upwards of 40k to prep the house and install the heating, it just makes no sense for me as I am close to retirement and will never get that back in my lifetime. But, all that said, I agree if it works for you it's great and its great for the environment, but we need to understand everything has nuances and its not a one size fits all. Appreciate the video and the insight, and keep it up, maybe the tech will hit a point/or legislation will force me, and I will join you. But for now its not for my situation.

[@Giftedmike359]

With 840 watts of panels laying flat on a pergola with morning and evening shading generated an average of 2kwh a day last september with my lowest day being 1kwh. This month with 1260watts i have generated an average of 3.6kwh a day with a low of 2kwh. Your array at 4kwh may have some issues. As i would be generating 6.4kwh on the worst day so far this month and 11.4kwh on average, with a peak of 15.5kwh

[@demon33]

@@Giftedmike359 thanks for the info, you could be right, but I suspect it's more to do with cloud cover and sunlight, because peak generation on the panels hits 4.5kw when the conditions are right. They are hooked up to a 6kw Solis hybrid inverter.

[@Giftedmike359]

@@demon33with a 4kw system roof mount 30degree pitch south facing you should produce 3500kwh a year in leeds with 315kwh of that being in september

[@housechurchuk]

, we've been quoted £2760 by Octopus fitting a Daikin, but we'd prefer our local to do it with a Vaillant, like yours, but would it be worth paying £3,000,or £4,000, or more for Vaillant over Daikin? What do you think?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi John, sorry for the slow reply. I don't have much experience with a Daikin, although they are a reputable manufacturer who sell a lot of units (heat pumps, air conditioning etc) in the UK and around the world. I am unsure how much cheaper than the Vaillant units they are, or whether Octopus has bought bulk / are trying to speed up installs. A local installer may be more thorough than Octopus. But maybe not! Not seen an Octopus install yet.£2760 is a very good price for a heat pump if you are happy with it I'd be interested to know what you decide and how you decided. Do let me know! Thanks Tom

[@housechurchuk]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Thanks, we've gone with Octopus to have one of their own heat pumps, not Daikin, fitted.

[@wag-on]

You mentioned central heating, but how does hot water compare to a gas boiler?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello - we had to install a hot water tank to provide hot water using a heat pump. We used to have a combi boiler so this was a change in how we generate hot water. Thanks Tom