3 years living with a heat pump - stats and my main take-away

We have now been living with a heat pump providing all our heat and hot water in our Victorian Terrace in North East England for 3 years, we love it. We are comfortable without burning any fossil fuels locally, we have reduced emissions by at least 2/3rds but what has it done to our bills?
In this video I think through the costs of living with a heat pump, give a real life example of a normal home with a low carbon heating system and try to think about ways we could reduce costs in the future. How much does it cost to run a heat pump?
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[@jeanh9641]

Thanks Tom, thanks Esther. You are one of the community of You Tubers who have inspired me to get a heat pump. It was fully installed a week ago. My rational brain tells me my radiators are not hot so I should not be warm but I feel really comfortable. I understand the science behind this but I have lived with gas central heating for so long it is difficult to change my mindset. I opened a bottle of wine to celebrate the day that my gas was turned off. I am still getting to grips with the integration of my Mixergy tank, Eddi, Harvie, Libbi and ASHP. An engineer from Octopus is coming to see me tomorrow to help me. At the moment I have the house too hot 🔥! I haven't worked out the best timing and room temperatures. I have been inspired by so many people on You Tube who have encouraged a 70 year old, widow to take the plunge. I was nervous and frightened of making a mistake but positive feedback from other people encouraged me to go ahead. Early days but I am sure I have made the right decision. I am now saving for an EV. Thank you once again.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Jean, thanks so much for your comment, really encouraging to read! Well done on taking the plunge! It does sound like a complicated system, so I hope the Octopus engineer can help talk you through. It is strange to not feel the very hot radiators but the house still getting warm, takes a little getting used to! Do get in touch if I can help in any way! All the best Tom

[@UpsideDownFork]

0.6 here. Great to hear more about your own experience 👍 Very generous of you to the gas boiler. Thanks for the shout-out! 😊

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks mate - and thanks again for the Mic!

[@ThePastaPastor]

Good video. We've also had a heat pump for 3 years and I've played with the settings a lot too. I've actually turned weather compensation off (controversial) and basically run the heating from 7am-9am and then 11-4pm at 34 degrees flow to 'charge' the house with warmth when the air is warmer outside. Heating SCOP for last 12 months was 3.8. I bump the flow temp up a few degs in colder months but find this actually is more comfortable because allows the house to cool slowly when going to bed. We also have Octopus Cosy so most of my heating is done at 40% discount. Smart tariffs have totally changed the game to running costs.

[@jewutja]

Hi Tom, thank you for the great video. I would like to know what your temperature settings are and also how do you change them in relation to Octopus Agile tarrifs? For example, what time and what temperature is your setback, or what time do you heat your water? How does your daily schedule look like? We had our heat pump installed in June, and this is our first week using the heating. I am looking for some ideas on how people are using the settings to increase efficiency. Many thanks! 😊

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

I'm still in the initial testing stage, but am trying 20 degrees until 9am, then 21 degrees all day, with slight increase in temp to 21.5 degrees between 3 and 4pm, before the 4 to 7pm to reduce use during that period. Setback is currently 18, but likely to increase. Two periods of hot water heating- 03:00 'til 04:00 and 13:30 until 15:00.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello - thanks for the comment - temperature settings keep the house at a constant temperature so 20°C 24-7. We don't change them related to the agile tariffs. Although I should note, the thermostat is in a room and external sensors for the weather compensation control are both south west facing, so our heat pump tends to run less hard during the 4-7pm peak because of our specific set up. We don't have a set back overnight. Heating water - we have the system to run outside of the 4-7pm peak, if the temperature in the tank drops by 5°C it comes on to heat the hot water. Which can happen in any of the 21 hours outside the peak. My conclusion, particularly for heating settings, is to try to push the weather compensation curve as low as possible and leave the heating to run as long as possible. This has led me to ignore any time settings, even with octopus agile. I am happy with this and means the house is always comfortable. I started with a set back of 17°C overnight, but this also tends to be when electricity is cheapest, so it didn't really make sense not to use the heating system with cheap electricity. Slowly and surely I reduced set back, until simplifying the system to run constantly. Others may come to different conclusions! Hope that is helpful?! Tom

[@timtam6442]

Hi Tom, just love my ASHP in my detached Yorkshire farmhouse. I used to pay a fortune in oil in return for a cold house. I now pay the same fortune to have a warm house 24/7 and the running of my EV. Just loving Intelligent Octopus Go and that low overnight tariff

[@neilphilpott9750]

Hey timtam, I've had a Kensa ground source heat pump since July last year, heating and hot water for our detached old Cornish farmhouse, and I'm still learning how best to use it, we're warm enough but I've been treating it like our old oil boiler and from what Tom has said maybe that's not the most efficient way especially as like Esther we're in all day.... can you give me a little advice, what do you set your room thermostats at for day and night and what timings do you use, the default setting of assuming we're out all day doesn't really suit?

[@timtam6442]

@@neilphilpott9750 I have a Grant ASHP which was installed and commissioned in March 2024. Had it set at 22 degs, 24/7 until May. Then dropped the thermostat to 16 and didn’t touch it until the last couple of weeks, since when I have had the thermostat at 20. Water took care of itself all summer, always 300l of hot. We’re at home all day. I’ll probably drop to 21 degrees and see if it makes any difference. The 7p off peak tariff makes a difference to how you think. I’m terrified to touch anything because I’m happy with the way it performs. I only play with the thermostat!!

[@timtam6442]

@@neilphilpott9750 forgot to mention that I had 22 new radiators installed and regardless, their TRVs are all fully open. I think my single ASHP is as large as you can go without a duel system. My water tank setting is at 51 degrees. I have a 5kw solar array, and I have no idea how much it produces as I can’t get the SolaX app to work. I’m not convinced it produces much in winter despite being South facing !

[@robertosfield]

We got 5kW aeroTHERM plus installed in August and have been tweaking various elements to see we can optimize efficiency and comfort. Still too early for any proper conclusions. The weather compensation curve was set to 0.7 when it was installed, but I've dialed this down to 0.5. First full month was September and we achieved a COP 4.0, with more heating in the mix this month we're seeing an average of 4.4. House is noticeably more comfortable with a consistent temperature than our old gas combi-boiler where the rooms were either too warm or too cold, and rarely just right. This combi-boiler was 24 years old so would have been lucky to be 75% efficient, so I expect we're now using less than a 1/5th the energy we used to for heating. We have requested Octopus to come and remove the Gas meter, once that is gone we'll save a roughly £100/year on standing charge. Often folks talk about gas vs heat-pump costs per kWh of heat but don't factor in the standing charge, with this saving you don't actually need to achieve the as high COP to break even. At the same time as installing the heat-pump we got 2.8kW solar and 15kWh of battery installed, in September in generated a 207kWh which was more comfortably more than the 134kWh consumed by the heat-pump for hot water and space heating. We still needed to pull an average 4kWh/day from the grid, but this is way down from 25kWh we would have consumed of Gas and Electricity in a typical September. I'd expect in the June and July we should be mostly off grid.

[@joewentworth7856]

Spead the word! We had a recent Open Green Homes event in bristol. It really good to be able to show what's involved. Give sensible warnings But also reassurance. It's a great way to heat a victorian terrace.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Is a Green Homes Event a Bristol thing? Interested in hearing more

[@joewentworth7856]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Open Green Homes was run by the Bristol Energy Network. I think it started as a national thing. But they carried it on locally. There is 'visit a heat pump' run by Nesta which is national. There used to be a scheme called super homes too but not sure if it still runs.

[@robertredpath4817]

I'm at 0.5 currently but over night temps have been around 10 degrees c with a low last month of 4 and all good. leave mine on at 20'C room temps and like you I'm using less energy to maintain that. As an experiment I turned the room temps down to 15 degrees for the 10 hours I'm out of the house and my usage went up by 5KW vs leaving it on!! I use 10kw normally so seeing it ramp up 30-50% was a shocker. Like you say they come tuned like a boiler, I think my default install setting was weather correction factor of 1.2!!!! I have the 3.5kw arotherm plus which I had zero faith in coming from an 18kw oil boiler and that wasn't enough on the coldest winter nights in some rooms. I'm running 12 radiators if you include a small one in the airing cupboard and it manages just great. I do have solar panels and 20kw of battery capacity so run Eon drive which gives 7 hours of 9p kw to run the pump at night and charge the battery's. I didn't have this rate on the first year and my electric bills were hitting £200 a month at 34p KW/HR as I didn't charge the battery's over night and solar is maybe 50kw for all of December. This year I think my export earnings will cover November to February costs total! One think I might try this winter if it's cold is using the built in 3kw immersion element to assist hot water I run from 2:30 to 5am if required as a defrost cycle would kill heat output for 30 mins from the radiators. at minus 10 outside you could tell! I've not actually used it once in the 18 months the system has been installed.

[@albertoporras04]

Octopus Cosy is a very good tariff if used with a small battery. You get 3 off peak periods (4am-7am, 1pm-4pm, 10pm-midnight). With a small (10kwh) battery you can run with almost no use of on-peak power. Note, as off-peak power is generally much less CO2 intensive than the grid average (gas generation is a bigger proportion of generation at peak times than at off peak times) is also greener.

[@ThePastaPastor]

We've got Octopus Cosy with a heat pump and fairly simple 3.2kw battery setup. It's changed the maths dramatically for us

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

HI Alberto - absolutely! We don't have a battery yet, but cosy can work out very cheap too. I have preferred agile as seems to give more cheaper energy, but you are exactly right, moving away from the peak tends to be lower emissions too, the Octopus smart tariffs are great at incentivising that! Tom

[@eddyd8745]

Thanks for the information. What is your target temperature at home? Also, don't forget that you are no longer paying a standing charge for gas (assuming that you have disconnected it!). I'm in a 1920's semi in Salisbury (my home town is Carlisle and my family are from Seaham Harbour so I am a bonafide Northern miser); I have about 4kWh of panels and 16kW of battery storage. I still have a combi boiler for heating and hot water but I also have a water tank which feeds into the combi boiler. When the price of electricity drops (I'm on Agile like you) I pre-heat the water in the tank so that the boiler doesn't fire up. Last year my combined electricity and gas was under £300 for the year (I export about £50-60 of electricity a month in the summer). I couldn't really justify the £9k that British Gas quoted for the same heat pump that you have which I really would like. However, Octopus produced a very reasonable quote for a Daiken HP. That said, I am always keen to support UK manufacturing when I can so I opted to wait for the larger Cosy HP to come out (Only 6kw at the moment and I need just under 8 seemingly). Once again, thanks for taking the time to post.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

We aim to get to 20°C where we keep our controller, in the room we spend most time in. We actually still have a gas hob so still have standing charge unfortunately, a discussion I have with my wife fairly regularly...! Makes a lot of sense to heat up the tank using low cost agile rates, and well done for getting that far to have quotes for a heat pump and a plan for the future, way further than most people! Good to hear from a Northerner in exile - welcome back at any point! Tom

[@richardlphillips]

Just had mine installed. Its an Arotherm 5kw which looks to be the same as yours. Currently curve set to 0.4. System is designed to 45c flow at -2. and got a new Heat Geek cylinder. Interesting to see what my annual figures are. Its on OpenEnergy Monitor heatpump list.

[@Chris-hy6jy]

And how much did all that cost?

[@davidreece1642]

What do you think of the HG DHW cylinder? I'm thinking of buying one.

[@richardlphillips]

@@davidreece1642 Seems good so far. COP of over 3.5 heating hot water to 48c.

[@davidreece1642]

@@richardlphillips Hopefully COP of over 4 once you are familiar with your system.

[@richardlphillips]

@@davidreece1642 Hopefully, design is sound i think 🤞🏼

[@alanfricker8506]

Useful summary. Still learning how to use our heat pump just over a month in. Can I ask what sort of temperatures you run the system at?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Alan, we have thermostat set to heat our home to 20°C. We store water at 48°C. One of the key points is the flow temperature from the heat pump and having that set up with weather compensation controls to vary with the external temperature, i.e. radiators warmer when the weather is cooler and vice versa. Depending on your system this could be done in a variety of ways but I hope was set up like that when it was installed. Hope that make sense? Tom

[@alanfricker8506]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle great. We already have the water at 48 (50 was a bit hot frankly) and are experimenting with the thermostat otherwise. I need to check the curve setting but we certainly have the weather compensation running from early experiences

[@fyank1]

I had Octopus fit a 4kW Daikin Altherma last week for £800. This included ripping out the gas boiler installing one new rad and a new Daikin 250 litre hot water cylinder. So far so good. House nice and warm and plenty of hot water. So glad to get rid of the gas to the house. The engineer that took it out said the flue hadn’t been sealed properly so CO could have leaked into the house. Scary!

[@geoffellins9081]

I always like watching your channel Tom as i live just up (or Down) the road in Hartlepool so it is obviously relevant to me. i have a heat pump being installed by Octopus at the end of this month which after the BUS grant has cost me £900 total. I was quoted by British Gas £7,500 after BUS so Octopus definitely was the best option. I will take your advice and run the heat pump as you suggest so many thanks to you and keep on with the updates. I have solar panels (some of which face north) and a battery and have been pleased with them. I also, like you do not think of pay back because in a way the whole thing has become a bit of a hobby.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Octopus will be installing a system designed to 50c flow which might perform at a SCOP or 3, but if designed to 35 or 40 could be 4. A heat geek - and north east greenhome energy come highly recommended might charge you more upfront but you could earn that back with lower running costs over the years. Worth considering

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Radiator sizes are key

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Geoff - would be great to hear how your install goes - try and get them to set it up with weather compensation and explain to you how you can alter the settings to push the efficiency up. With panels and a battery I suspect it will be cheap to run whatever happens! Thanks Tom

[@pmac6584]

Hi, Solar doesn’t help run a heat pump directly as the main generation is in summer. However, if you use the octopus export rate of 8p or 15p then you can use summer credits to pay for the winter heating. I have solar/battery and ripple shares alongside an EV and export as much as possible at 15p. This means I am approaching zero electric bill.. not there yet but I am down around £30 per month and still falling as these strategies unfold. I was paying £150 electric and £100 diesel so the electric switch can be much cheaper.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Pmac - absolutely, the best time for a solar + heat pump system is now, still longish days but into the heating season. In the depths of winter solar doesn't support much. Sounds like you are making some good steps with your system, we have some Ripple shares, but no solar, battery or EV yet, one day!

[@ellon118]

Very good video. My gas boiler is on its last legs and I would like to reduce my carbon footprint, but 2 plumbers have told me my home is not suitable for a heat pump. More investigation is needed. Thanks

[@kristiansnelling9576]

Have they told you that because it suits you, or it suits them? 🤔

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Keep investigating, maybe Octopus or another large firm will be willing.

[@ThePastaPastor]

You should speak to a heating engineer - HeatGeek have a list of installers with a guarantee on operating efficiency worth checking out

[@sustainablewarriors8844]

Great and very reasonably presented video on the pros and cons of heat pump ownership. We love ours and I'm very happy to say we beat your average unit cost by 2 pence (15.3p) on agile! Keep up the good work of spreading the word and debunking the daft anti-heatpump fake news!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks so much for commenting and great work on the low agile rate!!

[@RickBeton]

Really good presentation, Tom 😀

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Rick - kind of you to comment

[@metalhead2550]

Hahaha oh the irony with that audio! Great video Tom, keep up the great job!

[@Muppetkeeper]

I have a Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kW, it's been in 4 years now. Last year the SCOP was 4.0, compared to the 83% efficient gas boiler I had before. It's in a standard 1985 built detatched house. I have a battery, so use Octopus Cosy tariff, which gives me 8 hours of assured cheaper electricity each day. Ignoring all of the solar power I have (which in reality runs the whole house from May - September), and allowing for the battery efficiency, my electricity costs 13.5p per kWh, which then comes out of the heat pump at 3.8p kWh heat. My system use Auto Adapt, basically a weather comp curve, but also with an indoor thermometer that feeds back to the heat pump to say "bit warmer flow temp please" or "whooooaaaaa Nelly, it's getting hot in here" and varies the flow temp or ultimately switches the pump off if it can't modulate low enough.

[@scottwills4698]

I have a heat pump with solar and a battery. I’m on Octopus intelligent. I charge my battery at night for 7p per kWh and heat my hot water then run the heat pump for heating hard for the last hour it’s 7p. I then run my house off the battery all day. One of the things I didn’t realise was my gas boiler was using about 1kwh of electricity a day I guess the pump and board etc. My heat pump cost £1560 fitted by Octopus energy this year. 1998 year house.

[@gastube22]

Thanks for this - a very informative and helpful video. It's great that you are so happy with your heat pump. As part of the incentive to take up heat pumps instead of replacing gas boilers, the Government should increase the price cap on gas and reduce the price cap of electricity. (Bearing in mind these caps are only for domestic customers.) Not as a big sudden change, but phased in over a number of years, while also suitably adjusting the state provision for those in genuine heat poverty. The increasing price of gas should be paid back to Government by the suppliers (essentially as a tax) to help pay for the huge necessary cost of increasing the capacity of the electricity grid network to allow more heat pumps (and more local generation) to be used. This would only provide substantial revenue for a period, maybe 10-15 years, until the incentive takes full effect (resulting in less gas used), but that's fine because increasing the grid capacity is a one-off cost anyway. It's 'just' politics...

[@Robert-cu9bm]

£196 saving with a average 10k upfront cost over a boiler. Raking in savings in just 50yrs. This is the problem with people pushing anything green, they push the savings but fail to account for overall costs Edit: kudos he does mention the overall cost and payback

[@JimiQ2]

I have the curve on 0.2, really well insulated house and I suspect my heat pump (AroTherm Plus 7kW) is a bit oversized because previously I had it set on 0.35 and it was cycling like crazy (20 minutes on, 20 off). I lowered it, went for aggressive setback temp and now when it runs it runs for 40-60 minutes and then stays off for two hours. Before I had COP 4.1-4.2, now I am hitting 4.5 (heating only, DHW is a different matter - 3.1-3.3)

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Well that is really efficient, and much lower heat curve than me. Does sound like the heat pump is too big, which is a shame, but does sound like you are getting much better performance now. Tom

[@JimiQ2]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle yeah, it might not perform as well when real winter sets in :D I am in Czechia and my location’s coldest temperature (that is used to calculate heat loss) is minus 12C. But these years we rarely hit that kind of cold :)

[@derekpaisley620]

Just fitted, 7kw arotherm, 0.8 curve.

[@adrianbotos2819]

Heat curve is relative. It depends on the target indoor temp. In my case, it is 0,2 for 23,5C indoor temp.

[@robynrox]

I got 4.7kWp solar with a 3.6kW inverter installed two years ago and I'm generating around 4000 kWh per year. The warmer months tend to be best for generation, so how it would work for a heat pump really is to get a good tariff that pays well for solar (Octopus Flux is a possibility - that's what I'm on and is intended for solar/battery owners; I do have a bidirectional car charger as well which is quite rare in the UK but it does the job) which would offset your winter bills. There is some generation during the winter but it's not a huge amount, though it probably tends to happen on colder days when you need more of the energy for heating so it may work out well. I'm seriously considering a heat pump upgrade now. My boiler is 10 years old and whilst a lot of people would say that it's likely to be coming to the end of its useful life, I don't accept the 10-15 year life that is commonly mooted for boilers; my previous house had a boiler installed in 1999 and it's still working fine, although it's not been anywhere near as reliable as my current boiler. Also I found out about opentherm and started using that around two years ago to allow the boiler to modulate and run more often in condensing mode. I have a 1952-build terraced three-bedroom property and a nest thermostat to control it, set to 18.5C during the day, and I have averaged 6455 kWh of gas per year over the last two years to heat my home and provide hot water. I've learnt a lot from youtubers like you over the past week or so as I now have a quote from Octopus for a heat pump of around £3300 after the £7500 grant, though I do need some extras like a solid base for the heat pump to go on, and the survey hasn't been done yet. It seems like a major part of getting efficiency from heat pumps is running them nearly all the time. If I may, do you vary your set temperature at all to take advantage of lower-cost energy periods? I see Octopus do a Cosy tariff that provides eight hours of low-cost energy at three different time of the day and I'm trying to gauge whether it's worthwhile to heat more during those times (perhaps by raising the set point by one degree or so) and have it back off during other times; the overall efficiency would obviously be a bit lower, but it might be cheaper to run as a result. (Whilst as I said I have a battery system through my EV and could charge my battery during those times and probably would, but I think the round-trip efficiency is only about 78% for using that to power the house, and that was installed as part of a trial and cannot be replaced with a like-for-like system if it goes wrong.)

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Tom uses the Agile tariff, rather than Cosy, as do I. Some flexing around peak costs is possible on Agile. Solar is great to defray the winter costs of the heat pump, generating credit in the summer on the 15p fixed outgoing tariff before the expensive heating of the winter.

[@robynrox]

@@Biggest-dh1vr That's a thought; I used to be on Agile. It might be worth me switching back to Agile, but I have to do the sums.

[@peterthefoxx]

Nice, one - glad to hear you included Octopus Tracker in the numbers too, this is often overlooked. Also if you go with a heap pump you lose the ability to mix and match your gas and elec tariffs. E.g. if you export a lot and have batteries to export at peak times, ideally you’d be on Tracker for gas and Flux for elec - which makes gas over 4x cheaper (requiring a SCOP of 4 to break even) - so it’s hard to get this SCOP especially at times of year when you need the heating most. So for anyone in this situation, try to go for the best possible heat pump install - perhaps with heat geek etc

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

See Tim and Kat's Green Walk for a guide to tariffs to choose. They suggest Flux only for summer when generation exceeds consumption by 40%. Most of the time you would be on another tariff and the ratio of electricity prices to gas aren't so high. In general a SCOP of around 3.6 is sufficient to match gas.

[@peterthefoxx]

@@Biggest-dh1vr that’s fair for the majority, part of the issue is that during the time you are on flux your export can be worth 24.9p when gas is 5.1p (so actually 4.8x currently) - it is more of an issue the more solar and battery somebody has since they’ll be on it for more of the year and can make use of the peak export more of the time. But you’re right that most will be able to switch away from this in winter so they can mitigate it to an extent.

[@ambassadorfromreality1125]

Thanks for sharing your experience, it is the most important way of encouraging others to follow. Also the personal visits are very important and probably time comsuming. Has anybody told you that you look a bit like Hugh Laurie?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for the comment! And no, that is a new one to me...! The personal visits have been great, a good chance for people to ask questions see the reality of an install etc etc. I enjoy hosting them! Thanks for engaging with the video Tom

[@Lawrence7of9]

Our ASHP (Daikin £2.5 from Octopus) gets a COP of 2.7, not outstanding but very pleased with system. It’s mega comfortable & cheap to run. We’re actually too used to the comfort & now running heating 24/7 at 20-21 degrees (allowed to cool to 18 degrees overnight as too warm). We have 6kw solar/10kwh battery (EV charging too) which is covering energy currently (October). Annual electric (no gas of course) estimated £500 (Octopus) feed in tariff £300 yr so £200 annual bill! 4bed semi NW England & EV! Better, easier, cheaper, cleaner, more comfort - added value to property!!!!

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Are you doing a lot of hot water heating which may reduce your SCOP? There may be some tweaking to do?

[@Lawrence7of9]

actually we had a small leak in outside main pipe from a isolation lever joint, which went undetected until recently (as took dry weather to see damp spot beneath in hidden area) now rectified. I suspect this skewed things unfavourably.

[@bloodynorahvan2203]

Interesting video, with some real word reductions in CO2 - by 2 tonnes a year - fantastic. Let me tell you about my own journey, but with an EV. 3 years ago I decided to trade in my diesel for an EV. I do around 20k mileage a year, so how much CO2 did that save? Annually the diesel output 3.5 tonnes. The EV, using the National Grid figures was 600Kg. Cost savings in fuel for the same period £2150. Servicing also significantly less. Electrification is a no brainer, if you can stomach the inital costs. But even they pay back over a period. Good on you for taking the plunge initially, in the name of doing the right thing!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Fantastic example, thanks for sharing it! I am hoping we will also switch from our petrol car to a 2nd hand EV this year, for exactly the reasons you outline. Heating and driving are the two major challenges in most people's lives, we have the solutions if we can afford them!

[@grahamersguy]

Been watching for a while now. you mention heat output monitor.. which one please

[@joewentworth7856]

We had good results with 0.4 heat curve at 20degrees room target.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Great! As I mentioned on the vid, ours is at 0.5 now, maybe I could challenge myself to go further....! Thanks for engaging again Joe, great to have your support

[@joewentworth7856]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle the heat curve is really dependant on your radiators and building fabric. so 0.5 might just be what your building needs. One thing that makes a huge difference with Vaillant is the thermostat set temperature. A change of one degree on the thermostat changes the flow temperature by 5 degrees. so if you have your thermostat at 19 you might need a higher heat curve but if you have it at 21 the heat curve may well be happy at a lower value.

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

There is always questions if payback time, seems pointless to me as I'm sure it's increased your property value. No-one every quotes a payback time for a gas boiler, double glazing etc, it'll be interesting to find out if there is any

[@geoffmansfield2668]

Unfortunately the general public are NOT tuned in to this technology or have been brainwashed by the fossil fuel sponsored media. The Estate Agents in the Halifax area clearly say that spending £x amount on ASHP, PV or Battery will not add £x to the selling price of my house. I asked what % of £x it might add, and they said “small, if any” !

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

You're absolutely right - I would add in new sofa, new car, holiday etc etc. Sometimes these choices are lifestyle rather than purely financial

[@ianphillips7778]

Thanks Tom. Top stuff. Regarding electricity tarifs, if you have a zero CO² tarif, that green electricity is also used by people 'not' on a zero CO² tarif. So your CO² contribution is really zero! THINK of the grid as a big lake. With companies pouring in electricity of different emissions. Everyone draws out the same mix. But your tarif means you are 'pouring in' zero emission electricity to dilute all the other sources. Be proud of your zero CO² tarif!

[@HVACR_Notts]

The only thing I would add to the longevity of the heat pump systems is that uncertainty of whether by 2030 the refrigerant in the system will be banned or not since they are wanting to phase out refrigerants with a GWP of above 500 (I believe that’s the figure).

[@ademason8975]

Hello Tom - I would be interested to know if you think having a heat pump has reduced condensation in your house My thought is a more even and constant temperature in your house would reduce cold spots and subsequent condensation ?

[@garymenezes6888]

Do you still use gas i.e. for cooking. If not and you only use electricity, do you only have one standing charge to pay, i.e. you don't pay the gas standing charge?

[@jamesjulian]

Most gas boiler from 2005 can run on weather compensation and should’ve been set like that.

[@jeffpowley190]

Really positive to see that a heat pump can heat a normal house at comparatively reasonable cost, so thanks for a really useful presentation. I do query the comparative figures you used for electricity and gas though, as you used the lowest electric cost (Octopus Agile) with the highest gas cost (variable tariff), using Octopus gas Tracker (Dec '23 version) my average gas cost has been 4.75p/kwh for gas which seems to reverse the comparative heat pump / gas boiler benefits you made for your system. Have you also considered the extra servicing costs for a heat pump system, Vaillant seem to insist to maintain their warranty that you use their service personnel and have the heat pump service annually at a minimum cost of £250 which is in reality about £170 a year more than a gas boiler.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Octopus Gas Tracker is included in later tables in the video. He concluded the costs are comparable. The gas boiler efficiency he uses is overly generous, but I would suggest there would be no huge difference. The servicing costs are greater, but hopefully servicing costs will shift as heat pumps become more prevalent. The gas supply standing charge which roughly matches the difference. Additionally, hopefully the renewables levies that are solely on electricity will also be placed on gas to move the needle slightly further. I don't think the cost is a clear winner for either fuel. A newer controller makes any heating system more liveable with as the video highlights, and the heat pump is more future proof.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks both - I do mention tracker eventually, which is a fair challenge. We have just booked in a service for our 4th year, yes a bit more expensive and I may try to make a video about heat pump servicing this time. For the 1st three years servicing was included as part of the project we were in, so not had to think about it too much. Thanks for engaging with the video Ultimately, a heat pump isn't about cost reduction, although they can help with that, it is about reducing emissions, and they make a significant dent in emissions from day 1. Tom

[@edetc10]

Hi Tom does your system still have hydraulic separation (buffer tank extra circulation pump) I seem to remember seeing one in a previous video. Have you investigated going open zone re plumbing the buffer tank into a volumiser on the return and running purely off the circulation inside the outside unit? It should improve the efficiency of the system unless there’s some specific need for the hydraulic separation such as micro bore pipe work

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Ed - yes we still have the buffer in place, and we haven't looked into removing it yet - I am conscious that others have done this with videos on youtube, not been a priority for me yet! But something we could do in the future. Would be great to free up that space the buffer takes up at the moment. I have a service coming up from a Vaillant engineer, could be something we chat through then Tom

[@robertpaterson7311]

Thank you for the video. Unsure when you say it has reduced emissions as, a country, we can not produce enough Green Electricity to power Heat Pumps, Electric Cars, etc so are we actually reducing emissions overall ? Sorry I might have missed it but did you say anything about the noise of the unit which has been a problem with older models annoying the neighbours, is your unit still quiet ? Did you have to increase the pipe size of your system as I have been told I would have to do this if one was installed ?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

National Grid say we can.. unless you know something they don't? Is so, please let us know.. EVs will actually help to balance the grid with their huge combined battery capacity.

[@robertpaterson7311]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics I can not find any figures for 2024 so far, but the National Grid's figures say in April 2023: 46% of electricity came from zero carbon sources and in hopes to be totally green by 2050, so we are a way off at present.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@robertpaterson7311have a look at Heat Geek on pipe sizing. My installers played it safe and put the heat pump further from the neighbour's window. It is a little quieter than the gas boiler for me. The grid has the duration of the heat pump rollout to adapt. EVs are comparatively easy as they can charge at night.

[@sorbetingle]

😁😁😁i think whats happening is that your warming all that mass you have in your solid walls, effectively your using the house walls as a thermal mass to hold the heat and deliver back to you evening out fluctuations in outside temps thus having more comfortable living spaces. Im not sure how you could improve on your cop or scop, maybe increase loft insulation to stop heat escaping thru roof?

[@robinbennett5994]

Improving insulation would reduce the bill, but not improve the COP. To do that, you need larger radiators so you can run at lower flow temperature. It's probably not worth a big refit, but maybe that's something you can do when you redecorate a room.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

If you are running your heat pump at a lower output temperature for longer (using the house as a thermal store, as you say), the SCOP will improve. Running at a higher temp for short bursts will reduce the SCOP.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi all - yes that could be something that is happening, I am not sure the house has a huge thermal mass (bay windows are a 1930s retrofit and seem quite lightweight in construction), but there is some. We aren't in a rush to upgrade rads, one way of making a rad bigger could be to add fans to make them into some kind of convectors... again, not something I am planning to do urgently, but something I think about occasionally. More insulation is always good - we may look to do a loft conversion in the medium term, which will impact on heat loss significantly I think Tom

[@mrlover4310]

I think we also need to remember the upfront cost of installing solar panel batteries it takes many years to recoup that cost back most people don't stay in their house that long.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Even if you don't stay in the property the upwards of 6 years to payback, solar is an investment in the property, and the reduced utility bills will presumably be well valued by the purchaser?

[@mrlover4310]

@@Biggest-dh1vr not when most solar power companies go bust and there is no warranty left look into it.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

@@mrlover4310 There is something like a 2 year installation warranty, and a longer manufacturer warranty for the panels? I'd have thought the Chinese panel manufacturers (or their replacements) will be around for a while. Can't see Chinese dominance going away any time soon

[@mrlover4310]

@@Biggest-dh1vr you are correct but what about those who had insulation through non Chinese companies does a large amount of people in the UK who haven't.

[@keithgeorge7338]

So do you have different temperatures set in different rooms? What happens if you just want the bathrooms heated in the mornings? What happens if you just need heat in one room, say on a cool evening? Cheers.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Use the thermostat valves, or smart controlled ones on each rad.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Generally heat pumps work most efficiently with no zonal heating and at a consistent low temp. Unless you have insulation between rooms, heat spreads.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

I find it hard to believe that running a heat pump a couple hours a day uses more electric than running 24hrs a day. Let's say you had a 12kw pump, for this to work out true. It would have to run at max amperage for those 2hrs. Then the next year the same heat pump running at 1kw per hour. That would mean it would have to be 12x more efficient running non stop Vs not. And that's just to break even, let alone use less. Either your figures are wrong, the scenario is misleading or you've uploaded the building envelope in that time. I don't feel we're getting there full picture of comparison.

[@johnraymondcave8426]

With my air heat pump I'm saving over £200 per month.

[@Yorkshireasaurus]

I think talking about payback is pointless? When anyone has any kind of improvements carried out in the house payback is something that is never considered, or is that just me?

[@edc1569]

Just you, a boiler is cheaper to install and provides the same function, so a payback is the justification for the expense

[@mikeypc3592]

​@@edc1569No shame in just saying you can't afford it.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@edc1569depending on the property, the install of a heat pump can be a similar price to a boiler after grant. A heat pump will be more future proof too.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Yorkshiresaurus - I completely agree, we don't calculate payback on lots of lifestyle decisions - new sofa, new kitchen, new car, holiday, moving house etc etc. For some reason people are obsessed with the payback of a heat pump. Heat pumps could reduce costs in many settings but paying for themselves in a reasonable time is not the reason to get one. Reducing emissions significantly is something many people are looking to invest spare cash in, and heat pumps do exactly that. Ultimately, if we are taking climate change seriously, we need to stop burning gas. Domestic heating is about 15% of UK emissions, heat pumps are a way to reduce that significantly.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

No it's not just you.. when you have a new kitchen fitted for example you don't sit down and work out your payback time do you? Same for an expensive holiday..

[@smellypunks]

In reality solar does not work well in winter when you need most electricity. Batteries help to offset but what you really need is more panels.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Or a battery to get cheap import at night..

[@smellypunks]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics yes but really if you are doing that you don’t need the solar just batteries or an EV to use as a battery. But if you have an EV then you might as well have the solar.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

@@smellypunks well you can't beat solar for free electricity and I agree the more the merrier but coupled with a battery makes it very effective at minimising the running costs. Some people even make money on a yearly basis by exporting surplus.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@smellypunksthe solar export creates a credit over summer that you spend on wind electricity during the winter.

[@teelo523]

7:20 for the cost

[@KavanOBrien]

Wow , what the hell happened with life being so simple, how is heating the home become so complicated, maybe it’s just me thinking this way and the rest are happy .

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Sorry! Our system is simple but some people on here want to understand the detail. Simplified version - our heating is ‘ON’ all winter and it is comfy and a similar cost to a gas boiler. But less emissions than a boiler.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I wasn’t being critical of you , I was wondering why things like heating home should be a simple thing in life , the one simple factor in all of this that bills as far as the supplier is concerned will never go down , just look at EDF as an example 2023 = 700 million profit, 2024 2 Billion profit, every household on the 1st of January each year owe 120 pounds for standing charges which is a con , crazy when the supplier doesn’t even own the meter, if you switch all they do is transfer the serial number on the back of the meter to the next supplier, talk about we the people are being here for outlandish profits , .

[@david.j.bunney]

Electricity prices are only going upwards. As they tax gas (generation), add more pylons and wires that need paying for, and more renewables costs will accelerate upwards. Even if you get 3:1 thermal:electricity efficiency on your heat pump will drop with age, cost more to maintain and as Electricity prices go up more and more they will feel expensive. Emissions (of CO2) don't matter, their beneficial to the plants and reducing GB emissions won't noticeably change climate, whivh is dominated by natural cycles. Following the science rather than propaganda means not wasting money on decarbonisation. It will bankrupt the UK, businesses and households.

[@peromalmstrom7668]

Understand the item, the subject and overall topic is very much like current US & UK politics, very divided. Variations of opinion change, as we scale out, from an individual home, to a street, a neighbourhood, town or city, county, country and the UK as a whole. Let’s not even go to over countries across the world, where real poverty is clearly evident. The biggest argument, against is that always the less wealthy in society pay the highest cost and effect their living standard disproportionately, due to the install cost, versus moral, scientific and political views. Reality says, the less wealthy are not convinced and it sits within a small group of those who can afford and those who can afford and believe in the science, morals and political word-salad. It also depends on views around energy generation, consumption and ultimately climate beliefs. I’m one of those not convinced, as I witness neighbours and friends jet off on holiday or use their camper-vans, while having heat pumps, solar panels, battery banks and by pure data, add a larger footprint upon climate due to out of house activity, than any climate change benefits from them being able to afford heat pumps. I don’t go on holiday, which means I can’t also afford a heat-pump. Yet, I have a lower climate effect than those that do. Of course people need holidays, as apparently it is good for mental health, just not mental health and environment combined! Hence, to me, it is another rich-persons morals that are skewed which are put upon people like me. Yet, when I show them the data of their lifestyle, they come-up with so many excuses, you could build a stairway to the sun planet! Hence some call it a climate religion, they preach, but by heck, they don’t live what they preach, so by heck, stop climate bashing us living to survive. Nothing stranger than folk.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Land travel and heating are the low hanging fruit. The government steers clear of limiting flying, but it will need to be regulated, as will agriculture.

[@Chris-hy6jy]

I leave my gas boiler thermostat set at 20 degrees C all year round. Don't even think about it. No "smart" tariffs, no spreadsheets, no complicated control systems. The boiler cost me a fraction of what an ASHP install would have cost. Each to their own but I'll not be getting rid of gas anytime soon.

[@edc1569]

Yeah it’s still too expensive for many, that will change though.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Depending on the property, the install costs can be comparable after the grant, and the heat pump is more future proof.

[@ohyesitsme]

@@Biggest-dh1vr Why should the tax payer. me and you, fund other peoples HP installations.

[@martinwhitaker5096]

Ditto... all zoned per room with the living spaces set to 20.5 and the bedrooms targeting 18 degrees.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Chris, thanks for sharing - you are very similar to 20million other homes...! Ultimately, if we are taking climate change seriously, we need to stop burning gas. Domestic heating is about 15% of UK emissions, heat pumps are a way to reduce that significantly. I dont think about my heating system much either, I do think about the risk of keeping on burning fossil fuels, moving away from gas is important if we are going to reduce that risk. That is the main driver for me, and for many, of getting a heat pump. Thanks for commenting Tom

[@laverdajota8089]

Fantastic BUT IN 15 Years time we have 20 million houses on heat pumps , 20 million electric cars 6 million electric vans , Wet cold winter night ,everyone gets home , charges cars and vans , lights on , cooker on ,street lights and office buildings all lit up , phones on charge, computers and TVs on , Where is all this electricity going to come from , as it stands we import from France at peek times in winter as we don’t have enough generation capacity in Uk . Utter madness and melt down on way if we continue down this route.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

The electric cars and vans aren't a huge burden on the grid given they can mostly charge at night, when demand is low. Heat pumps will require investment in the grid and generation over the ramp-up of the technology as they need to be on much of the time.

[@Markart50]

All of this zero carbon is actually a race to the bottom. In fact, the more you save money, the less electric companies earn, so the more money saved, the more the prices will, to compasate go up and up.and up. For people who don't have an advantage. Actually, survival of the financially secure.

[@ohyesitsme]

This all sounds very grand but you need to look further into the future. Once all the coal and gas power stations are switched off and becuase of the Net Zero mandate then what can we expect? Well when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine then the grid will be under pressure to deliver. Of course with many people will have smart meters then they can be controlled as to when they can use their electric appliances. The same will apply to EV owners with their smart chargers only being allowed to use them when the power grid can cope. If a large majority of people elect to go down this road then what happens to the supply company profits, well becuase we are not using as much gas and electricity then their profits go down so obviously prices go up. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Thats why they're building an interconnector from Morocco where the sun always shines and in the evening the wind always blows.. simples!

[@TheFlaneur-up1ft]

Forget it, they bang in about COP but there’s so many variables it doesn’t work for most people.

[@Rockall57]

All that matters is how many kWh that you used.. You've gone from 4000kwh per year to 12000kwh This is a joke...it's exactly the same as our home..It's useless..the cost is 3 X Are you nuts.... BETTER TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM

[@ricardopelc-wesoly3483]

Could you not hook up some solar panels and perhaps a battery bank in time to reduce the overall cost of the electricity usage.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi both - just for clarity and apologies if this was confusing in the video. The opposite of what you say is true - we used to use more than 12,000 kWh of gas each year, we now use less than 4000 kWh of electricity. This is a massive reduction in energy use. The cost is very similar running a gas boiler to running a heat pump. But the emissions are greatly reduced. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Thanks Tom

[@yapr6]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleis that electricity usage purely hw and heating?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@yapr6 Hello - yes that is right

[@Brian-om2hh]

the lessons you've *learned* not learnt.....

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Eeek - I am afraid I speak British English and we say learnt.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lessons_learned but hey... if it communicates meaning then either is fine

[@roi354]

This is great! So If I spend £15k on a heat pump I can save £200 a year instead of spending £3k on the best gas boiler on the market. Cool. Not.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Roi - thanks for commenting - sorry for the confusion, our system was £11k, average system today is £13k but there is a £7.5k government grant so cost would be more like £5-6k. This does come with controls that should be better than most gas boiler installations And means significant reduction in emissions, better air quality, improved comfort and not buying fossil fuels form dodgy companies and dodgy countries. Priceless!