2015 Personality Lecture 20: Conscientiousness - Industriousness, Orderliness & Disgust

University of Toronto PSY230
Course Information: jordanbpeterson.com/Psy230H
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March 26, 2015
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[@DJBiscuit]

as a plumber, thanks for the shout out!

[@DNA350ppm]

Thank you for your service!

[@andrewwabik5125]

You rock, @DJBiscuit !

[@reemaalhamdan1]

@Titan Julio @Rowan why are you trolling Dr.JP’s videos ? I hope you’re at least learning to at least not lie and to stand up straight with your shoulders back

[@simongelsi409]

I’m an electrician, we’re practically and basically partners so why the fuck not? Skål from Sweden

[@JeffMTX]

Yeah but he also says you guys might be responsible for post-modern nihilism 😂

[@ukaszs.2923]

I always convert all Your lectures to mp3 through 3rd party site and listen on the go/run. So i just batch liked them all. I'll just assume that I'm going to like this one too. You're brilliant, your lectures are brilliant. Most of the time you make me realize how stupid I am and I love it. Thank you.

[@YoursTrulyMrsMoores]

Łukasz S. Which site? Castbox doesn't have the personality lectures

[@SilhSe]

Of only JP doenst sound like Kermit 🐸

[@ellisclark3024]

you all prolly dont give a damn but does someone know of a method to get back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost my password. I appreciate any help you can offer me!

[@observerares132]

It’s been six years.. how much have these lectures affected you since then?

[@nickolaiorlov4732]

Do you have lecture #19 or did it never exist

[@joshuamacas3275]

I remember one of the times in my life I felt the most confident is when a woman wasn't disgusted to sit next to me.

[@JeffMTX]

Been there too bro

[@dmitrym3757]

Thank you for putting it out for free so anyone could watch, your lectures have enormous value to me

[@ylmonkeyU2]

Thank you for deeply feeling, pointing out and reminding the dark side of our human nature! 53:17

[@latinaalma1947]

Yes to psilocybin making one more open. I had it only once at 21 and it transformed my life.I am now 74...I became a clinical psychologgist , like Jordan and a professor but before him in '79. I had had a difficult childhood emotionally the "trip" took me out of myself, my past, jelped me heal (no PTSD just typical stepparent issues)and made me feel at one with nature, the world. It vastly improved my perspective. It put me above myself, out of my petty daily cares. It helped my focus and conscientiousness that resulted in my motivation and drive to study those 10 yrs and then to publish and become a professor. It was not solely responsible but it gave me a BIG boost forward getting over the hump of emotionalism about my former stepparent struggles. My anxiety level went waaaaay down. Sybil Francis PhD

[@JeffMTX]

Wow , thanks much for the testimony.

[@latinaalma1947]

@@JeffMTX You are welcome...

[@leesarenee5757]

So glad you're feeling better, Dr Peterson.

[@RamonThomas]

An important lecture, especially because of the unpopular but accurate nature of IQ tests.

[@DailyCorvid]

Thanks again Dr P, this is such a great lecture I keep re-watching it and discovering new bits I previously skipped over.

[@barefootarts737]

In response to people who are higher in conscientiousness being overall more happy. I know we can't go around changing our personality willy-nilly. But I have to say that making an effort to become more conscientious immediately puts me at a deeper level of calm and happiness. It arrives immediately! it is not a result of conscientious action over time amounting to something that feels good. It comes with the quality of attention given to tasks. Part of my argument is that the happiness that conscientious people feel is not a result of their accumulated actions but the immediate result of the act of conscientiousness.

[@gspolima]

I feel that way too. I'm very open, agreeable, neurotic and erratic, and as soon as I get my act together just a little bit, I immediately feel a greater sense of being in control, let's say, and as a consequence, way less anxious.

[@HodsBroo]

Fascinating discussion

[@margaretmeyncke3592]

As a human, thanks for the wisdom !!!

[@Sarjex27]

Unbelievable the resources we get for free. Why pay for college when this is on KZbin?

[@shrink0001]

I cannot help to think about Freud's conceptualisation of the ego ideal (superego) in 'The Ego and the Id' when listening to this lecture about conscientiousness.

[@andrewwillard5773]

Love these lectures

[@andrewwillard5773]

Too bad there isn't a link to the film showed. It's was difficult to hear and you can tell it was upsetting.

[@kellyberry4173]

Brilliant Dr. Brilliant.

[@jacky7878]

- use your guilt/disgust to guide you

[@MrAustanian]

The STD theory is interesting. People higher on the social hierarchy have more access to mates (at least on the male end). I would be surprised if the increased immune efficiency is enough to offset the increased likelihood of contact.

[@roddydykes7053]

The thing is that people on the lower end of the social distribution will fuck just about anyone that comes along that’s attractive, and it only takes a few times by comparison to end up with someone with herpes

[@latinaalma1947]

Yes interesting idea!

[@veeho14]

“Conservatism as a social/cultural immune system” is directly from Jung. He said that a conservative reaction against new ideas is a normal and healthy reaction, because a new idea or cultural change might be good, but it just as easily could be a disease/contagion.

[@veeho14]

@@statistics2143 of course there are no easy answers. I never meant to imply that the disgust instinct or conservatism is the most important social safeguarding force, or that that impulse cannot become extreme, or that it will always lead to good ends. It is one part of a complex social dynamic.

[@draconiansolo]

Along with the parasite stress bits, the psychohistory people seem to kind of have a point with childrearing.

[@AdurianJ]

Liberal democracies however are much more uncompromising if there actually is a war though. Since you have to rile up the entire population it's almost impossible to get a negotiated peace and much much more likely unconditional surrender will be insisted upon.

[@reezy69]

What about something like modafinil? Would you say that has the ability to pharmacologically increase industriousness?

[@NGrimthrie]

Is it possible to correlate people's expectations about the future stability of their categories with their industriousness? Reminds me of taking short term pleasures if you can't expect the future. Maybe work wouldn't meaningfully aggregate, and people would self-report their own feelings of ineptitude.

[@megagagnon1]

If conscientiousness is unproductive if times are unstable is an accurate assessment of reality, then preppers are wasting their resources.

[@holidayarmadillo8653]

Those little bitty bop sounds when he’s pressing buttons on the monitor come across as distinctly opposite to the Peterson vibe. Sure he gets annoyed at that little sounds effect, I would.

[@ilia9963]

Where is lecture 19?

[@hydroxacte]

It isn't available in the prior year's videos, either.

[@Ballosopheraptor]

Well at the end of the last lecture he mentioned something about a strike, so maybe that had something to do with it.

[@jesinu]

He seems like he is sick in this one. Maybe lecture 19 was covered by a substitute and wasn't recorded/uploaded.

[@kyle2]

I am curious about this too. Someone should ask in the patreon Q&A

[@paulmacias4591]

i thought it was because of this. anyone have an answer?

[@Fairplayer43]

A nature-nurture situation.

[@roflstomplolmao]

As an open/agreeable person, the cancer analogy can built upon - yes a cancer should be treated/cut out, but the very basis of evolution relies on mutations fundamentally. Organizing a society such that no mutations occur ultimately stifles progress!

[@elektrochava]

Peak Peterson

[@Pratherwind]

He looks like hes in pain.. im sooo glad hes better now..im so happy that eating meat has helped him

[@felixfletcher-smith2292]

Dr.Peterson, can you post a link or a name for the video shown in the lecture. Thankyou.

[@Azirahaelx]

scroll up.

[@bradenwellman2155]

2015: “Humans are Omnivores” - JBP 2019: ...

[@pablowoods1848]

I understood that reference!

[@eomanga]

A whole new meaning in 2020!

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

i don't get it... are you saying that, when one family of humans eats meat, the rest are also strictly carnivores?

[@mrlakkie1612]

@@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489 no but omnivores yes. It doesnt matter if u eat meat u are stil build for it.

[@abigailakim9070]

This sheds some light on some of the pathos surrounding COVID around the world today. Unvaccinated or unmasked people are seen as “impure,” and it drives the desire for orderliness (i.e., mandates). Likewise, these individuals are painted as “inconsiderate” or “ignorant” - something we all fear of being if we want to fit into a functioning society.

[@abigailakim9070]

Likewise, individuals shrug off the discrepancies they see about COVID in life vs on the news - an example of the phenomenon Peterson describes at 56:00.

[@karolakkolo123]

What's interesting here is that, people on the conservative side do the same thing with regards to vaccinated people, saying that *they* are the ones impure for injecting the substance into their bodies. This makes me wonder whether or not the labels we use today (liberals/conservatives) apply anymore, since the issue is so complicated. Perhaps there is a distinction that needs to be made in the industriousness discussion between conservativism and authoritarianism?

[@NOnerf97]

wheres number 19 of this series?

[@THECHOSENO1NE]

You say that if any of the 5 personality traits is taken too far (or is too lacking) then a person will not have a good time in their life. I can see this argument functioning for all of the traits except openness. Are there any negative aspects to being hyper intelligent?

[@francescop1]

professor, what do you think of Paul Bloom's new book on empathy? "In a divided world, empathy is not the solution, it is the problem; a source of prejudice, not kindness. We think of empathy as the ability to feel the suffering of others for ourselves e" as the ultimate source of all good behaviour. But while it inspires care and protection in personal relationships, it has the opposite effect in the wider world. As the latest research in psychology and neuroscience shows, we feel empathy most for those we find attractive and who seem similar to us and not at all for those who are different, distant or anonymous. Empathy therefore biases us in favour of individuals we know while numbing us to the plight of thousands. Guiding us expertly through the experiments, case studies and arguments on all sides, Paul Bloom ultimately reveals that some of our worst decisions e" in charity, child-raising, criminal justice, climate change and war e" are motivated by this wolf in sheep's clothing. Brilliantly argued, urgent and humane, Against Empathy overturns widely held assumptions to reveal one of the most profound yet overlooked sources of human conflict. It demonstrates with absolute clarity that, when faced with moral decisions, we must choose reason and compassion, not empathy, as our guides."

[@david-uf9xk]

The problem with people that are too high in openness is that they loose filters needed to at least keep friendships. They say things that make their friends mad or think your a weirdo. At least that is one thing that can happen.

[@Midnight_Rider96]

High openness leads people to spend time on a wide variety of tasks, many of which are likely not to produce efficient returns. It may be associated with distractibility, disregard for social norms, ect.

[@salutetherank2105]

"Arrogance of the Intellect" kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqnceoGEf7pph8U Jordan Peterson gave an answer to your question. Hyper intellectuals can become arrogant with their own creations.

[@Kenny-tl7ir]

@@david-uf9xkwell then they should be only making friends with people who are equally high in openness amirite?

[@JeffMTX]

When I am conscientious and industrious, it is from GRATITUDE (for me, it’s to God) to be alive and capable. Do any of the personality measures make an attempt to model *gratitude* in any way?

[@mattthetrucker5585]

Where lecture 19

[@Bill-Sama-Gates-Laden]

What was the name of the nazi propaganda video at 45:00 ? If the title was mentioned I missed it. Thanks.

[@Bill-Sama-Gates-Laden]

thank you

[@hemipemi]

I hear the SJWs are planning on putting out a propaganda video of their own that draws inspiration from the Nazi original. They call it "Triumph of the Won't"

[@aviadrozenhek]

can you post the answer? I was looking for that too

[@charlesdavis4212]

based on these comments, i think it's 'triumph of the will' ?

[@dustyandsneezing]

He didn’t look too happy about it either and I can tell you I wasn’t. Absolute evil propaganda

[@compilationofinformation]

56:50

[@tommythompson7941]

I wonder if Christopher Zou gets a lot of emails regarding this video

[@fembotalpha]

Insects are industrious, which makes them look like they know what they're doing, and their industriousness can make them seem like they're intelligent because of what they're doing, maybe because we (over) value industriousness. Industrious people can also look like they know what they're doing, because they do what they do with determination (OCD v determination?) which sometimes makes them look intelligent too. But what if it's just luck as to what an industrious person focuses on to focus on? What if industry is just a program we've inherited from insects writ large? And what if OCD is just a program without a better problem to solve? Let me know if you'd like me to work with you on this JB Peterson. I'm high extrovert, openness, neurotic; low on agreeableness and conscientiousness (but sometimes very high on conscientiousness if a subject fascinates me). I wash my hands a reasonable amount of times but probably less than most.

[@sapper043]

“Autistic aspirations” orderly “administrative solutions.”, for the “greater good”.

[@o_-_o]

Can we say metaphorically: overdrive of immune system like autoimmune diseases are like radical right and overdrive the independence from order become cancer or immune deficiency like radical left?

[@DexiPawnz]

So fascism is lupus and communism is cancer? lol

[@o_-_o]

As far as I am concerned, yes.

[@o_-_o]

And anarchy is AIDS

[@karaloop9544]

I'd see AIDS more akin to corruption.

[@christophersnedeker]

The worst part is I felt a bit of the appeal when we got to the German propaganda part. Made me feel like I almost agreed with. I could really see why some people believed it.

[@dll7658]

👂

[@gary_michael_flanagan_wildlife]

Can someone help explain why liberal and very left leaning people tended to be more cautious with the pandemic (double masking, angry at those without a mask in some cases etc)? If conservatives tend to be more disgust sensitive. More inclined to fear disease? Thoughts? Could it be liberals are more neurotic overall and therefore more scared? And conservatives more freedom focused and less complaint to government regulation? Thanks.

[@nickie17301]

Did anyone else feel like Peterson was picking them apart in this lecture for being conscientious? 😉

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

They would feel that way. lol >.^

[@latinaalma1947]

Well he is high in conscientiousness

[@EdNorty]

I wish I was high in conscientiousness 😩

[@dustyandsneezing]

54:30 😵

[@artifications1444]

Why the hell is there a rand Paul add on this? I’m 10 minutes in I am totally turned off by this ad placement. It just means there will be more coming down the line. I don’t want to be lied to while I’m trying to educate myself.

[@Kenny-tl7ir]

Ask KZbin not the creator. If you use your critical thinking Prefrontal cortex, you should be able to overlook the Rand Paul advert and focus on critically evaluating what Dr Peterson is saying

[@kristenbrown1]

54:58 - sounds familiar today re: vaxxed against non

[@alexandercamlin8889]

Dr. Peterson, do you think that it is possible for an individual to successfully cultivate the personality traits that they are naturally deficient in? I had this insight a few years ago; I am very high in openness, and as such, was very anti-tradition, anti-dogma for most of my life, but I sought to challenge and correct for this bias by joining a monastic order. I believe it really helped balance me out, even though it was very difficult for me, and I ended up getting kicked out for challenging authority.

[@alexandercamlin8889]

+Jordan B Peterson Thanks for your expedient response! And the advice; I actually already started doing that :)

[@MrGOTAMA420]

I want to say thank you for everything, i found your lectures because of your free speech stance. this is some of the most mind-blowing info ive ever heard.

[@paoloribaldini]

Yes, it would be nice to be able to read his response. :) thanks

[@karolakkolo123]

@@alexandercamlin8889 what did Dr. Peterson reply to you? His comment seems to be removed

[@alexandercamlin8889]

@@karolakkolo123 sad to say that I cannot recall. I may have them screencapped somewhere.

[@austinmays6865]

Anyone else send Christopher an email?

[@rchetype7029]

N-no.

[@faroukramzan6649]

Thats brilliant

[@PWizz91]

Anyone emailed Chris zou?

[@ThisVideoAnnoyedMe]

The tip of how to convince conservatives by appealing to their increased disgust sensitivity is brilliant!

[@rob5735]

One of the reason people on the lower economic hierarchy are more discust "sensitive" is that they have not experienced enough of the social world to be dulled . By being barbarted with Discust on a daily basis.... I think it's similar to being desensitized to something (too much) Such as over stimulating life over indulging. If everything you do is exciting and great. Then the not so bad will seem as bad as the worse it could be...

[@latinaalma1947]

Yes ever rising expectations are less and less satisfied...ever increasing higher an higher expectations of life is a recipe for dissatisfaction.

[@rob5735]

Well said👍

[@yoinkling]

MADGE

[@TheOhioCountryboy]

It's interesting that during the Nazi film, Professor Peterson was showing physical signs of disgust at the message in the film. Yet during the 1930's when the film was made, the Germans embraced the message and weren't disgusted by it. This would imply that what is disgusting is not universal. What seems like a poison to one, is a panacea to others. This means disgust is subjective, rather than objective. As a side note, it is also interesting that when women are sexually aroused, their disgust sensitivity is lowered.

[@BritneyGrills]

i hate when people can't formulate a question without saying "um" 5-6 times.

[@abramgaller2037]

The Nazis did partake in spiritualism ,mythology ,Wicca ,a form of Freemasonry ,Hindu and Christian ideation---they were not pure in a conventional sense.

[@doubtfultunic8510]

The addition of the quiet radio section was a terrible choice in my opinion, took too long and was too quiet

[@MrDaydreamer1584]

"There hasn't been a war of any consequence between two liberal democracies." What about the American civil war? The Northern states were a liberal democracy; the Southern states were a liberal democracy. So it was a war between two liberal democracies, wasn't it?

[@dzoniark]

What is definition of liberal for you?

[@scottyjohnson9399]

Peter would have been a good joker in 2019. " You get what you Bloody well deserve ! " Not only that, he Gave Bruce wayne to rescue his Dead father from the abyss.

[@GB140459]

Beavers work

[@annamaria1929]

Yes but they work because that’s what they do by nature they don’t work to earn a living or buy their girlfriend a ring or put money by for their rent or to buy food 😅😂🤪

[@kaanj5827]

@@annamaria1929 Wrong.

[@williamr.kirkland6317]

This man appears to be ill. Not up to his usual performance.

[@martinburrows6844]

And no cola

[@cornbreadisbetterthanpizza6866]

I remember one of the times in my life I felt the most confident is when a woman wasn't disgusted to sit next to me.