2018 07 24 Which size QCTP should you buy?

Hobbyists looking to step into the QCTP arena for the first time may find this episode useful. I set up both an "AXA" size and an "BXA" size of toolpost on both my Logan 11 and my Atlas 12 so that you can see the difference and make your choice. Note that I've since found out that the AXA, which is the one I chose, is the recommendation Aloris makes also.

[@richbuege6491]

In all the years I've engaged in lathe work, as a living and hobby, I've tried far more tool posts than I care to admit. Someone like me, where I'm down to what should be called bench lathes, with all their inherent deficiencies, I have yet to find any small lathe with a compound that will support a lantern tool post. I have yet to find a quick change or turret type that do not bring out more problems then solutions. A set of tool holders for the lantern post isn't cheap, but nothing else is as versatile. RH, LH, straight and maybe a cutoff are all that are required. As I grind my threading tools on a surface grinder, it's no big deal to get them on center and at the right angle. But they do eliminate the problems of the post itself interfering when you have to go back to work using a live center. My old Grizzly G1003 came with both the "turret" and a lantern tool post, I bought the RH, LH, and straight holders, I've regretted selling that lathe since the day it was taken out. But with no slot in the compound of the smaller lathes, where that was once standard, you now get a stud with no way to move it. Progress in reverse. The six inch Atlas I had was slotted for the lantern.

[@swordfish1120]

I agree with your assessment on preferring the smaller post. I have a 10" Atlas TH36 and I had an actual Aloris BXA that I got a great deal on, but it was too big so I sold it. Now I'm on the hunt for a sturdy, well made AXA size.

[@bvcxzgt5451]

Good demonstration. It showed me what I needed. If you want to be able to swap tools from lathe to lathe with reckless abandon, all you need is to put a shim/spacer under the one with the lower cross-slide, or you could machine that same thickness off of the romper room lathe's cross-slide

[@RickRose]

Great ideas! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Just found your channel and Subscribed. Interesting. Thanks

[@RickRose]

Thanks! I've been slacking on content. Playing with new software and hope to get back into it next year. Happy Holidays!

[@vmitchinson]

I have the 111 QCTH and am quite happy with it on my Logan 10". If you rotate the center mount 90 degrees cc and move the tool holder to the new position you will have more room in between the mount and the work.

[@RickRose]

Good point--That will clear up space. Also, I should have mentioned that it's not exactly the end of the world if you have to flip the tool in the toolholder and remount it with the tool holder rotated 90 degrees clockwise. That should take care of all but the trickiest situations. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@peterjones6945]

Oversize QCTP is more likely to break something as the off set and overhang causes tool to try and rotate under workpiece. Having tool cutting edge as close as possible to centre of compound pivot point will almost always get you a better finish and higher material removal rate. QCTP is fantastic in a production environment but I never even fitted the one I bought to my hobby lathe(s) The 4 way that came with lathe is actually 'better' and dead easy to set when you know exact centre height (3.495" from compound mounting face to centre on one and 2.224" on other )

[@RickRose]

I've always wanted to give one of those four-ways a try. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@donaldnaymon3270]

Great video. Thank you for show the different sizes and how they sit on lathe. Thank you for sharing.

[@RickRose]

Thanks for stopping by and for the nice feedback. Glad it was useful to you.

[@johanneslaxell6641]

I have two lathes at work. One Harrison Alpha460 without a compound where there is a Parat size three, and an older Harrison manual lathe with a compound where there is a Bison (or similar) holder. Works great!

[@RickRose]

I have no familiarity with either of those machines, but thanks for stopping by and commenting!

[@johanneslaxell6641]

@@RickRose It's close to PrecisionMatthews TL1640 and TL1660? The Alpha maybe a little bit bigger than the TL1660? Just wanted to say that there are other sorts of QCTP, would like to highlight that I have no experience of the wedge-model that you have. We have three different lathes, three different sizes, two Bison-America standard QCTP and one Parat Precision (also USA 🤭). I like them all. The Parat is allways straight, turns nine degrees and all four sides can be used. The Bison has a locating pin, three holders, is fast and can be turned freely. They are extremely good and nice, but expensive as f*ck...

[@RickRose]

@@johanneslaxell6641 Ah okay--Yes, I may have made it sound like these wedge-style tool holders are the only game in town, which of course is far from the truth. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@johanneslaxell6641]

@@RickRose I hope that I didn't sound to "cocky", it was not meant as a negative opinion. It's more that I allmost never hear anyone talk about any other style than the (dear I say this?) cheap China-imports. I wish you all the best, over and out...

[@RickRose]

@@johanneslaxell6641 No worries at all!

[@MakinSumthinFromNuthin]

I saw a 12" Atlas Underdrive model like ours on craigslist the other day, but was a 12 x 24" rather than 12x36. Looked beautiful

[@RickRose]

Nice! I really should stop looking at Craigslist, but I can't help it.

[@MakinSumthinFromNuthin]

Yeah....me too! :)

[@eleventeenmachine5991]

I have a rear drive Craftsman 12"x24. Hope to have it sold soon since I got a nearly new 12×36 grizzly loaded with tons of tooling for less than I paid for the craftsman. My craftsman is one year older than the craftsman commercial labeled ones but exactly the same. But, the grizzly with its gear drive, v ways, much more rigid bed, and approximately 1-7/16" spindle bore is better for me. Even though it's still poorly made in chiner. Welded cracks that also cracked in the ways are a dead giveaway of that. Also, a Pratt and Whitney sticker is nice. But the emblems that are the last part put on the engine are much nicer to have. But, much harder to find.

[@RickRose]

@@eleventeenmachine5991 I actually have one of those metal P&W emblems! Very cool, as you say. I hope you are enjoying your Grizzly. From all I've seen, they are fine machines, and I will likely own one myself someday. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

[@asakayosapro]

The smol lathe owners (I mean the 7x-9x, sherline and other micro lathe) owners need a little love too. For that range, this style but the 250-001 variety would be best, and even get them to a good height range for most if not all of their tooling - at least for the 7x -9x owners. For the smaller aluminimum extruded multifunction kits sold at sub $200, those are kind of out of luck unless they have a decent milling machine to make their own quick change toolposts, and that’s not even getting to the overall build quality of the things, literal plastic slides with plastic slide threads and plastic or punched metal tool holding pinchers. The $300+ varieties have it better with metal slides and threads, but are severely limited in torque; they will machine plastics and soft metals, but with steel would either need a lot of time or a lot of frustration and a subpar finished product, or all of the above. Needless to say, these varieties will not fit nor will benefit from having even the smallest of these QCTPs unless they rebuild the entire thing to solve the inherent rigidity issues they have, plus the size and distance said QCTP will require. And yes I own two of said kits - they will have a purpose eventually but need some work to get there; as well as a proper Central Machinery 45681 9x20 that is currently running a Warco QCTP set - it works well but the tool change process is not as fast and it has overhang on the compound; literally too short unless I install a height plate below the tool post, and spare tool holders being a pain to source, hence being replaced by a 250-00X set complete with lots of tool holders, particularly boring bar holders (250-004 x5 PCs) Said lathe will soon be joined by a same brand 44491 mini mill - a kit with missing components like the electrical boxes and boards (FC350BJ PWM boards literally rarer than antiques, out of stock everywhere) for the 110VDC 350w motor, and missing its XY table, but for how much I paid for it and freight shipping is worth way less than bnew retail for a complete unit not to mention the planned rigidity upgrades (yes, this is the variety with the pivoting column, but I do have uses and plans for that feature)

[@BillyTpower]

to clear the live center just spin the tool post 180 the put the holder on, it's not ideal but will work for light cuts.

[@RickRose]

Thanks for stopping by and commenting!

[@jbrunson1949]

Great video and lots of info,, but you left out one point,, the BXA withe the larger post would always be less likely to have deflexion , but when you consider that it also has the tool nearer to the base or bottom this will even decrease the chance of deflexion even more,, the more pressure towards the top of the post, under high pressure cutting would tend to flex the post. Myself, I would rather not stress my machine or material to the point of the deflexion, but there are those that think hurry, hurry, hurry is the way to go.. I say if you need to cut off that much, get small stock to start with.. There will always be exceptions, to any task..

[@RickRose]

Great perspective...Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@keithgutshall9559]

I learned it run a old South Bend with the lantern type tool post in the late 1960,s. The muli fix tool post are not cheap eather

[@JamesDedmon]

It appears that the Atlas or Logan has a lot beefier compound area than the more modern imported lathes. My BXA doesn’t look as tall on a Grizzly G750g. In fact it came with the B size post. I tend to use insert tooling on my lathes and use a lot of reworked 1 inch shank tool holders. I have holders that use VNMG or DMMG style inserts that lets me get up to the tailstock center. I have made videos on these tools and have posted extensively on using them

[@RickRose]

Thanks for the comment James--I'll look at some of your videos!

[@dogphlap6749]

+Rick Rose if you rotate that tool post at 18:30 270 degrees CCW and reverse the tool you would have no trouble clearing the tailstock chuck but of course the head stock chuck would be a problem then if you wanted to work close to that as well.

[@RickRose]

Yes you are right on both counts. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

[@wuffa4503]

i am self taught and have a smithy granite lathe/ mill combo 6.5 swing and am so tired of finding center,so i just bought an axa wedge type quick change.Its in the mail.wasnt sure if it was the correct size but from your vid i think i am good to go,,thx

[@RickRose]

Hope it works out--Let us know! Did you check out the Aloris reference?

[@jerrypeal653]

The 12” lathe is where I had my dilemma , BXA works fine .

[@RickRose]

Good to hear--Thanks for the input!

[@jutny]

I have a logan 12x36 that came with an import axa with a badly fit t-nut. I think a BXA might be more suited?

[@colonialclive]

Put the tool on the other release and problem solved. Simples!

[@georgeowen2083]

I bought a 13x40 turnmaster by American machine tool. The guy that sold me the lathe that needed a little work said that the tool post that came with it was too big. I didn’t even look at the brand because I figured it was some cheap china piece. I got it the lathe home and was setting it up and I looked at the tool post and about shit my pants. It was an Aloris CA-1 they cost over 2 grand new.

[@RickRose]

Congrats on the score!

[@agwhitaker]

There are 2 kinds of lathe tool-post systems - 1. The Swiss Multi-fix design. 2. Everything else.

[@mtn.srlrascu6675]

You need a smaller version. I have the opposite situation. I buy the small one...

[@RickRose]

Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

[@DK-jt6be]

Very informative! Cheers from Denmark

[@cdrive5757]

Rick, great video. You covered ( *Buy an: AXA - BXA ??* ) issue ... Exactamundo! BTW; I wouldn't dream of discarding my old LTP. It will get my tools in tight places that any size QCTP could only dream of. On another note .... please feed that poor Logan, (is it a 920?) some well deserved an NEEDED OIL! It's shameful! 😁 Wakodahatchee Chris

[@RickRose]

Thanks for the comments, and the Logan will be getting lots of oiling when I get back on that project. Got distracted by my new garage and other stuff.

[@RyanWeishalla]

For the 10-12" lathes, spending a little extra for a wedge type like you have versus the piston-type is the better money. For the Atlas 10", the compound design lends itself more to the AXA size instead of the BXA size because the area of the flat part where the t-slot is is recessed under the height of the rest of the compound, so it can get in the way if you need to rotate the toolpost to odd angles.

[@RickRose]

I completely forgot until you mentioned it that, when I had my Atlas 10, I had to machine off about an inch of the "hump" that occurred just beyond the flats for the toolpost in order for the AXA to rotate on the cross-slide. I believe it was the only project I completed using my milling attachment, since I bought my Bridgeport soon thereafter. On my Atlas 10, because of that hump in the cross-slide casting, even the AXA would hardly rotate at all before I made the modification. Thanks for reminding me.

[@RyanWeishalla]

Yep, I did that, too. Although I milled a little too deep and now have a hole in the top of my compound. One of these days I'll put a little filler in it so crud can't get to the compound's screw.

[@coreygaydos1]

So since youve clearly done your research what size would you buy for a lathe that has a measurement of 2.525 from the top of the compound to the center line of the chuck, the lathe will swing 10in from the center of the chuck to the top of the ways.

[@RickRose]

I did the research quite a while back and do not have that great a memory, unfortunately. However, if you look at page 29 of the chart found at the below link, it should be helpful: www.aloris.com/aloris_cat/31e970.pdf

[@legalsolutions07]

Good video. I just cleaned up and assembled an Atlas 10F that I was given and I'm looking for a QCTP. I'm shocked at the prices I see for a used Aloris. Have you ever worked with an original Aloris? I'm trying to understand where the cost of the Aloris is vs an AXA style post.

[@RickRose]

I've never had the chance to use a real Aloris because, like you, I've never found one in my price range. I did find a New-Old-Stock Dorian at a great price, so I use that one often. The feel is different from the import, but I honestly can't say it is "better." Just different. Less travel to lock it, but then I wonder if I'm getting less leverage on the lock.

[@James-gk8ip]

All compound slides go into the drawer! Weakest point on a small lathe. Solid bases are the only way.

[@RickRose]

Do you pull it out of the drawer now and again for cutting chamfers and such? Threading even?

[@gregrichard9192]

Put the tool holder in the next slot on the toolpost and you'll have no bulk in front

[@richardpetrovic8941]

size is done be size of lathe - nathing else

[@wayned1807]

"Lantern" style? Never heard that term before. I was taught that they were "Armstrong" style. I purchased the Phase II brand 15 years ago. Works fine and was 1/3 the cost of Alorus

[@RickRose]

Well, you had me doubting myself, so I Googled it--It's the correct term! Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

[@backlash00]

@@RickRose "Lighthouse" style was also used in the 50s for this type.

[@RickRose]

@@backlash00 Makes sense--It looks the part! Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

[@tomfitzpatrick9980]

Who supplies these QCTP's. Do you have a contact (website or email). Thanks, very helpful.

[@RickRose]

Shar Tools is my personal go-to place for import tools, although lately I've been giving Banggood tools a try.

[@mengxu5397]

Hi, we are suppliers of QCTPs from China, I'd like to show your more details. e-mail: [e-mail]. looking forward your reply

[@johndebrular979]

@@RickRose CDCceO.com has same ones at good prices. Good service,

[@lesthompson5907]

how much I live in England Cochster master, In How many pounds?

[@RickRose]

Hello Les. I decided to hang onto it for now. Thanks for stopping by.

[@toolman7540]

Why the lathe have so many different colors

[@RickRose]

It was in a school. I think the different colors were supposed to be for safety. Red means "really dangerous," yellow means "kinda dangerous." That's my guess, anyway. I'm slowly repainting it as I work through the parts.

[@mtn.srlrascu6675]

Too big for that lathe

[@user-yo9vm1lg2f]

??????

[@davidwilliams2351]

would it not be a good idea to do your research first before advising others?

[@RickRose]

I do my best! Thanks for stopping by.

[@reginaldcrudstump383]

@ David Williams Would it not be a good idea to only say things that need to be said rather than be unnecessarily rude to someone who's just trying to be helpful to others?