2022 Lionel Vs 2022 MTH models! 6 Current model Diesels unboxed, who wins best fit and finish?

[@joeystrains.9316]

Thanks for making a difference Mike, if enough people subscribe, like and support your channel, Lionel will grow a brain and have a serious corporate meeting. Keep up the good work.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you!

[@gregleuze6657]

Unfortunately Lionel will not. Just means I will buy less. I only have so much money and it is difficult to spend that much money on substandard product. Thankfully trains have been around for a long time so there are older things to collect.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, that was my strategy when I first started buying O, used only. Then started seeing some newer stuff that looked really cool with the latest technologies, so I gave in. Also the prices on used had begun to creep up close to or more than new on certain hard to find models. I’m slowing down buying for sure at this point and back to used. 👍

[@jamesmelchin2873]

Mike....I would be so ticked off. What a shame. I'm so happy with the MTH engines I have. My 20 year old K4 is still the leader. Thank You for another factual film. 👍

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I really like K4’s also, especially MTH and the prewar version that K-line made with smoke deflectors, TMCC and Cruise. K-line was really ahead of its time with scale and detail like MTH.

[@jeffb4016]

I Also purchased the SF F7 and they have blotches in addition to the SP. I have beeen in touch with Lionel warranty and they have asked for pictures of the roofs. I have sent. Let’s see if they get back to me. My dealer did say if Lionel gets a lot of complaints they are more likely to take some action. Wouldn’t hurt to call warranty department and at least get your name in. I am not hopeful but better than no hope.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I tried that on my NS F7’s, I’ll call in and let them know, I’ve posted these for sale on FB market place already though. I was going to weather them but have too many projects right now and tired of wasting time going back and forth with Lionel. Im sorry to hear yours are bad also, but I sort of figured most every set would have it based on the amount of people that have contacted me about their different versions of F7’s with similar roof finishes.

[@DynamicDuo795]

Great video! I have a complete A-B-B-A set of MTH Premier Norfolk Southern F7 executives and all ten matching passenger cars. MTH did a phenomenal on those engine's so I have nothing bad to say about them. The Lionel version from a few years ago wasn't as good and was alot more expensive to buy. I plan on running my set at the next train show on my club's layout this upcoming March.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s a great set! 👍

[@retiredveteran6812]

Thank You Michael for your replies, Ya know I’m one of these modelers who’s a bit overkill when it comes to my collection ! The first thing I do after I’ve placed these new purchases up on the layout is I verify there operating as intended, once I’ve done that there headed to the maintenance shop table and are completely lubed, your mention to the worm gear or wherever the motors and trucks pair up had me scratching my head as it was something I really hadn’t thought about with my new engines ? Have a great Mothers Day, I’d give anything to spend the day with my mother !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! Sorry to hear your Mom is not with you today. 😔

[@keithwood638]

I haven't had a lot of time to really examine my yellow Santa Fe. When I have more time I will definitely look at it in detail

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Let me know how yours turned out, hopefully better than mine. 😉

[@bencunningham6298]

I just received my ES44 black camo engine from Lionel and of course had parts broken off. Fortunately for me they were in the box so I could make the repairs. First Lionel I've purchased in years but I think I'll stick with MTH and possibly Atlas once my preorders from them arrive. For what we're paying for Lionel products I expect better QC.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That is a cool looking locomotive, sorry to hear you had issues with it. Thanks for checking out my video and your comment. 👍

[@challenger3989]

Appreciate your unvarnished and informative criticism of Lionel quality!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, having been anBIG Lionel fan and advocate, I could only be burned so many times by them before I stopped biting my tongue so to speak. There has been an outpouring of similar quality control and customer service experiences on my channel since. I appreciate your comment. Thank you

[@jeffb4016]

I also ordered the Lionel SP Daylight F units. To my surprise I also have streaked paint on the roofs. I have the ABBA and all have paint defect. Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I always wanted this set in Legacy and here they are but flawed. I will keep cause I always wanted, but will be more selective going forward. Not going to give up cause I have a large Lionel collection.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sorry to hear about yours as well Jeff, I sort of figured it was going to happen that way after both of my NS sets roofs were bad from a couple years back. I was hoping Lionel had enough complaints to catch and inspect so history didn’t repeat itself, but no luck Sir! My Santa Fe’s from the same catalog that I just opened up are the same, only silver with flaws. Thanks for the comment! 👍

[@chefmarkt69]

Hi Mike, You definitely help keep loinel in business!!! I don’t own any and every time I look at new loinel catalog I know why I don’t have any. It is the price for there items. Wow a working class guy with two kids just can’t afford it. Plus I have to teach my kids how to think about budgets and what is a smart buy. Good luck

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You sound like a great Dad! 👍 There are plenty of good deals out there that accommodate most all budgets that will work to get folks into the hobby, you are absolutely right, looking at a Lionel catalog isn’t one of them. I won’t be keeping them in business any more. 😉. Thank you for your comment.

[@markslioneltrains]

Very Sorry to hear.😞The plastic sticking to the paint along with the missing lift ring is a real bummer for sure.! I don't mind CA glue parts but buying a specail car for missing parts is sad. My Husky Stack is missing a bearing cap but the parts are not available yet so when they are I wonder how that will work out for me? Guess I should get the missing grab iron for my Vision Sound car while I'm at it.🤔The good news is my new SW1 seems to be less jumpy the more I run it. We will see? Thanks for telling it like it is.! That's what I do.! No Sugar coating.! 👊

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate it. I had been keeping it all pretty quiet the past several purchases and keeping it all internalized, beginning to accept it myself because Lionel had been servicing everything per warranty terms. Then so many things were needing warrantied and coming back in worst cosmetic condition than I sent them in and other issues like missing parts not addressed at all, I just couldn’t bite my tongue about it anymore, no matter how much I loved Lionel. Having given them entirely too many chances, now I’m embarrassed I kept buying their products knowing all the quality and customer service issues. Sorry to hear your experience some of the same things. Thanks brother! 👍

[@markslioneltrains]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Thanks Mike.! You are welcome 🤗

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I appreciate it! 👍

[@ralphmiller2265]

Thank you Mike for your videos and information. Perhaps you'll be the pivot point to make Lionel turn around and do better. I've always felt vibes from Lionel that had Mike Wolf and MTH not been around, as Lionel would have (maybe) gotten into the scale model production, their models like the 1999 Allegheny would have cost $3000ish. MTH literally held Lionel down and even when Lionel came out with the JLC line they shot prices up about $400.00 over similar MTH models. I've been lucky, all of my Legacy models are flawless (except for the lack of grease like you mentioned). Lately though I've gotten Legacy upgrades on some of my older JLC locomotives as I've not trusted newer items. I did buy a Legacy C&O Allegheny and N&W Y6b and though the models had no flaws, the Allegheny was numbered 1608 yet it had the overfire jets (these jets were only on Alleghenies #1645 and up) on the sides of the firebox. If you're going to build a 'scale model', lets get it right!!! In 2006, Lionel boasted of the then new JLC model as being prototypically correct with overfire jets as the locomotive was #1650 which is correct. They paid more attention to little details like this back then but here lately, they have been slipping and not paying as much attention. Now the newer Legacy model did have boiler mounting improvements. As you know, when you pushed down on the front of an articulated loco boiler, it would tip forward since there was no mount underneath for the boiler to ride on the front engine. Well, they did fix this issue on my Legacy Allegheny and Legacy Y6b. They also perform flawlessly for which, again, I'm grateful. BTW, I've also had zinc rot issues with a circa 2006 top of the line Lionel steamer. Lionel did not have replacement tender trucks so I went to MTH. their truck are not as detailed, but at least they don't suffer zinc rot. I made sure Lionel knew what I had to do.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Great information, having only been in 0 since 2017, I learned from your comment. Much appreciated, I am happy you’ve had overall good luck. I agree that Lionel needs good competition to keep them on their toes. However I definitely didn’t preorder anything from the 2023 catalog and at this point, I am buying more in other scales from other manufacturers or if O, taking my chances on the used market which is how I started buying in O, outside of brand new MTH from my local shop. I was really focused on buying and collecting, so I’ll start working on my layout more and running my old reliables. Thank you for taking the time to write your comment! 👍

[@danielhemple8649]

Thanks for doing an honest review MTH does a great job on their chrome-plated engines I have the Santa Fe alco pa gold bonnet in the catalog it did nothing for me but when I saw it on the shelf it is amazing

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Daniel! I agree, I saw the Railking version of the gold Alco at a local hobby shop after I had already ruled it out. Once I saw it in person I changed my mind and found the Premier set and really like it. 👍

[@jpthepenguin3833]

Amazing Lionel obviously monitors your reviews yet fails to publicly offer any remedy or vow to make QC changes/considerations. I applaud your Resolve amidst all the Lionel cheerleaders who continue to exclude any consequence for such half-baked products. Keep it up! To Lionel- respond , we’re watching and waiting!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I knew it was a lost cause when they lost my locomotive sent in for repair and sent me someone else’s. Yet, they came to me for help, which I gladly obliged, took the time to follow through on what they requested from me, yet never took care of any of my simple, reasonable, warranty issues and request. Even knowing their resolutions could not make my purchased remotely close the being like new, and still barely acceptable. No response, no resolve, no offering of an apology or even an alternate solution. Lionel just doesn’t care, or I’m lost in all the other warranty claims and complaints. Who knows?!?, but people need to know the truth before they are disappointed with spending their hard earned money and end up with the same experience as myself. Thanks for your comment. 👍

[@retiredveteran6812]

Mike I purchased this Southern Pacific F7 A sbB A along with the Union Pacific same way! I’ve noticed that Lionel hasn’t been lubricating the gears for maybe 2 years now, I could be wrong ? But my question to you is are the F7 trucks difficult to remove ? Thanks Mike and Yes ! I’m a follower ! Thank you for being thorough and objective !Bill

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Nice choices! Yes, mine move freely and there is a whole lot of play in the gears. I can move the axels side to side and the drive gear on axel only meets the other gear by a millimeter or two which is a bit concerning because of the edge of the gear on the axel wears over time it will have an issue with running I’m sure. You’re welcome Bill. 🙂

[@scottfrezza3573]

It’s crazy how the similarities in problems exist between multiple locomotives, paint issues, roof hooks, missing parts. You’re not the first I heard of these. I’m lucky enough to only had one with light streaks in paint. Enjoy your videos !!!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Scott! Yes, you are lucky for sure. I really like these F Units, just a shame about this finish issues, everything does run fine which is great! 👍

[@BledsoeTrainsRC]

Hey Mike, would you make a video on lubricating the worm gears? If they are in fact dry I imagine thats something just about everyone will need to address. My AC&W units came in looking good, one side grille is kinda pushed in but thats a problem I've had even with Atlas O in the past.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi, thank you for the request. I will look at doing one for sure. That’s a bummer because those aluminum vent details are so cool.

[@markslioneltrains]

I don't know how to lubricate the worm gear either.! That would be Awesome. Gears dry on all my locomotives from the factory fyi.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s what I’ve heard from several of my friends and repair guys around here as well! The Manufacturers Way set was a home run here in St Louis. One of the trucks on the switcher wasn’t attached from the factory and the entire locomotive had to be disassembled to fix it, no lubrication anywhere as the shop was taking it apart to fix it. Then I got my Army Veranda with a truck hanging off, same story, I made a video about it when I got it and several other people chimed in about no lube and trucks not being attached. It’s all pretty crazy!

[@retiredveteran6812]

Mike, If you could I would appreciate your thoughts on removing these F7 trucks to verify that the worm gears are in fact lubricate ? I’ve purchased both the UP & SP F7 ABA sets and I watched your video and you’ve got me wondering ? I’ve had these over 2 months and haven’t cut the tape but I will be tomorrow ? Thanks for your reviews, not the typical guy who overlooks these mistakes because he’s so happy his new train has arrived ? Like you, it all about the QC and the past 3years have been a nightmare 🤔 Thanks Mike, Bill ……

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

It’s been a couple months since I got them, checked them out, test ran them and put them on the shelf. They aren’t using the worm gear drive system like the older ones, at least not in the my SP set, it’s a drive system like the one I first saw in my Santa Fe switcher, it’s a + shaped gear at the end of the motor shaft that fits into another + shaped gear on the top of the truck. I took out the screws and turned the truck 90 degrees to remove it if I remember correctly. I’ve taken apart so many locomotives lately they are starting to blend together! Lol. That drive system looks to be more efficient and less maintenance than the worm gear system.

[@jeannenehman2910]

Would you be able to advise me on DCS control system? We have a hobby shop in town but they are more into remote control cars, trucks and planes--My first name is Rick. great video on talking about quality of Lionel vs MTH!! Also your easy mountain building with spray foam is quick and simple. Thanks for your time!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi, I’m happy to help, do you have Facebook so we can use Facebook Messenger there?

[@bryanparr7274]

Great video Mike. I have the same set of MTH F7 ABA and think there’re some of my best running engines.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! Great set for sure! 👍🙂

[@martinkuperberg3846]

Even with all this aggravation you still have the most spectacular trains

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! My son and I love the Bobby for sure, that’s why it’s so upsetting when something you really want is made and the finished product disappoints. I appreciate your comment. 👍

[@garyruark9506]

I'm an MTH DCS guy but I was going to invest in Lionel Legacy system. There are no new ones which I don't get. Same for MTH DHS system. How do the manufactures expect to get new customers with no operating systems? Anyway, I didn't go Legacy based on train club members that said they have so many issues with Lionel Legacy engines. MTH quality is very good but sometimes you find a new unit that has an issue. I almost bought a new MTH Premier PRR F7 set but one engine whobbled. Turned out it was missing a traction tire. It was not in the box so it had to be missing from the factory. I didn't buy it because I decided I didn't like the paint scheme. I have gotten MTH steam engines new with twisted traction tires. They whobble too but it's an easy fix. I ordered an MTH UP Premier Mikado and when it arrive it was missing the allen screw that holds the front boiler cover in place. The cover had fallen out and the headlight wire was holding it in place. No allen screw but the store called MTH and they sent one. To install it you have to seperate the boiler from the frame. I didn't like that idea. This engine also had a problem with the smoking whistle. The smoke kept coming out under the boiler. The dealer had a MTH Premier NPK Mikado in stock and it was perfect so I bought it. I always lube the truck gears but I never found an MTH unit that didn't have the worm gear lubed. In fact, I think they use too much grease. I bought a new MTH Premier UP Heritage diesel where the magnets inside both motors fell off. They are glued to the motor can and the glue let go after a half hour of operation. The dealer replaced both motors under warranty and they have been fine since. The MTH Railking Army diesel I bought had a smoke unit that got so hot it deformed the palstic shell above it. The dealer reprogrammed the engine to fix the problem but I'm stuck with the shell issue which isn't noticeable unless you know where to look. Apparently MTH new about it because they had the programming fix. The dealer told me he has many warranty issues with Lionel and some with MTH. I don't know about Lionel but MTH is good sending parts to fix them except bodies. If your engine has a cosmetic issue you can't get replacement bodies. I buy a lot of things made in the Eastern world and often have issues that happen in shipping. I will not even mention the electric bicycle I bought and the condition it was in when it arrived. For the money these trains cost they should be perfect and the manufacturers need to stock all replacement parts to fix warranty issues.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Wow, that’s a lot of issues, some small, some big, but all concerning, and to your point, shouldn’t happen for the money we spend. Yes, pretty ridiculous we cannot get electronics in this hobby when all the other scales have their control systems readily available. O scale manufacturers need to do better in general, they look like they don’t care or incompetent at managing manufacturing and supply chain and people are turning to other scales or hobbies without the bad experience we have in O right now, if you are into modern and the latest and greatest O scale stuff. Well said, and sorry about your issues, but MTH is fact to react and resolve and have most parts available to get your issue addressed quickly and your trains back on the tracks! 👍

[@swdw973]

What's sad about this is I bought a used legacy LionMaster Challenger that was made in 2011. Even being used, it was immaculate in fit and finish. it also runs like a dream. Sad that they WON'T (not can't) give the consumer that kind of quality anymore.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! I have several older Legacy locomotives I bought used with no issues and haven’t had any as the new owner. Not sure why things have taken a turn for the worst.

[@dennislaskowski9385]

Hey Mike. I appreciate all your videos and your love for the hobby. I to bought the Santa Fe e7 set and power b unit. Since I do not have a legacy set up, I use conventional or blue tooth, well the b unit did not work or respond in blue tooth mode. I returned it and purchased the non powered unit with sound for safer measures. Also I did notice the gears were not greased like yours. Like another post maybe a video on checking grease while pulling the motor out as a topic??? Also I did not want to send back to Lionel as they said probably 8 weeks out. I always have to check these trains when they come in, even if I box them up for the self and never run bc of unknown issues which we should not have to deal with. I am on the fence now but continue to buy the L brand but if this continues maybe I just stop or switch brands. Which is sad for both the consumer and manufacturer. They do need a lesson and only profits talk.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi Dennis, that’s a bummer, I haven’t tried anything I’ve recently purchased in Bluetooth operation yet. The big L had had a lot of issues from what I’ve read on forums, even with the last round of F units, and no boards available to fix people’s that didn’t work from responses in the forum. That will be a big issue for me if mine do not work. At the trains show where we set up our club layout and run for the public, I love letting kids take my iPad or phone, which they can relate to, and make the trains talk and activate the horn or bell. It’s a key feature for sure. I’m happy you got yours replaced. I opened my, some roof flaws and I was shocked to see the paint so light of yellow and inconsistent details and paint schemes between the B and the A’s. I’m thinking I’ll make the video for maintenance, looks like I’ll be pulling the shells to weather them a little and try to tone down the yellow and add some life to the trucks. Thanks again for the comment! Yes, I would rather get a quality product and keep buying from Lionel for years, but they don’t deserve it and obviously do not care.

[@horacedunson6929]

Use an authorized lionel dealer for all my purchases, items ordered by dealer and shipped to dealer. When i pick up my order it is opened and ran at the store. Any problems my dealer either call lionel direct and works it out. If parts are missing he rush orders parts and makes repairs at the store as he is an authorized lionel repair center. I love lionel but for quality of product Atlas locomotives are hands down the bext detail and build quality in my opinion.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s definitely a good idea, open them at the shop when they come in so they can be inspected and address issues at that time. I’ll agree with you on Atlas for sure. To this day I’ve never had an older Atlas locomotive that I bought preowned or a brand new that has had any type of issue. Best detail and they just keep on running. 👍

[@rodrossi9749]

It's pronounced " liver- e". Great review......👍👍👍

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! 👍

[@michaelabalos595]

I hope Lionel reaches out to you to clear up your concerns. They should have quality control officers look into what's going on and remedy the problems. Mike if you're having problems more than likely so are a hundred others. It's nice that Lionel comes out with a lot of cool features but quality should be at the forefront.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! It’s been weeks and still no call back, when THEY said they would. Definitely tired of all the emails back and forth and cases closed without resolution, reason, and most of the time no response. I’m tired of them wasting my time and money.

[@LS_trains]

They won’t. Cuz companies like Lionel don’t actually care about their customers.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, they have made that obvious to me, except when they needed my help with their problem of course.

[@nathanschronce8703]

I've had more problems with MTH quality control than any other name brand. However, every model I have has had some sort of defect. It's part of being a collector. No models are perfect. Those little issues are so easy to fix, I don't see the big difference between MTH and Lionel

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thanks for the comment, out of 175 or so MTH locomotives, knock on wood, 3 have had issues and both were preowned. None of my brand new purchases or any other preowned have had issues. I expect some degree of risk with preowned but not brand new products. I have an extremely long list of unacceptable quality Lionel products. I have a lot Atlas O, HO, and N, zero issues, Broadway limited N, 0 issues, G scale MTH O Issues, 3rd rail brass 0 issues….i typically have pretty good luck. 😉

[@nathanschronce8703]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I've had good luck too. MTH just needs to use better quality electronics in their products. They are super tempermental, and are sometimes frustrating to work correctly

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

@nathanschronce8703 it does get frustrating when things don’t work correctly, especially technology! lol. Thanks for your comments. 🙂

[@retiredveteran6812]

Hey Michael ! Well …… I watched your video as my Lionel F7’s Union Pacific & Southern Pacific’s with both having Super Base B’s so ….. after watching this video I opened both sets up first thing the next morning ! Well Mike I was fortunate, no defects at all anywhere and believe me after this video I knew exactly what to look for ? But ….. Your exactly right, it has become acceptable to accept less the perfect fit and finish and also electronics issues which I’ve had my share ? Like you, my collection is 90% High End weather it be Lionel, 3rd rail, not so much MTH, I just shyed away from MTH in the early years with burning up boards PS1 & PS2 era but I’ve recently started purchasing special run Atlas Amtrak P42 Genset 50th Anniversary Midnight Blue Complete set ? Also got my pre order in for Pat’s special run Dreyfus Hudson and hopefully being Lionel it’s Spot On ? I’ll be watching ya but just remember, as you I hold their feet to the fire because for these Numbers I want my stuff perfect ! Take Care Brother !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment, I’m happy both your sets were in great shape. I 100% agree, everyone needs to hold their feet to the fire and not accept this is part of the experience of the hobby or buying Lionel products, which unfortunately so many have. I hope your Dreyfuss turned out great! 👍

[@retiredveteran6812]

Not sure how to paste a photo on KZbin ? I’ll figure it out 🤔

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

They don’t have that capability yet. If you have Facebook, join Pops O Scale group and you can post pics there. Answer the three questions for membership to make it to approval as well. Thanks!

[@keithwood638]

I love your MTH red Santa Fe. I agree in general. Mth makes a better product. And you get more for your money. And the service was better

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Keith, definitely my favorite modern F units!

[@curtishoman7867]

I hear ya. And you are correct about Mikes Trains. That is Number reason I am MTH First!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! I’ve always been MTH first since it was my son and I’s first and only 0 set for a long time. I really gave Lionel a chance because of their history in trains, my Grandpa and some friends liked Lionel, and they had some cool looking stuff. MTH has more unique offering and didn’t do the same stuff over and over. More innovation for sure. Sad to see them cutting back.

[@larrygrabbs8209]

Boy, that was exciting! Will those trains run down the track? Cry, cry, cry.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Always

[@OgaugeTrainsplusslotCars]

nice engines

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thanks

[@ArthurTodd-ue9rt]

When you buy a product you expect the product to be perfect. The company implies that the product will be perfect. When the product falls short, it implies that the company doesn't care about the product they are only concerned about the revenue generated. I'm so sorry to hear the Lionel has fallen short in providing you with the product you expected.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I definitely agree! Thank you Arthur

[@Machia52612]

Mike Wolf knows trains, Lionel bean-counters don’t.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You are correct, makes a big difference

[@tom25pa]

My reading & northern has streaks in black paint too. Lionel just sux anymore.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

So sorry to hear that, I really wanted to buy those also because they look amazing in the catalog. Every set of F and E units I have purchased from Lionel have had roof or missing part issues. Thanks for checking out my video.

[@deweyhall712]

If the layout hobbyists stopped buying from Lionel, they woul get the message, that they're dropping the ball...

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed!

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

They used to rap engines with that thin foam surrounded by the plastic right?

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Yes, with a sticker that had the initials of who inspected and packed it. Accountability measures were in place, at one time.

[@williamkolina3988]

Mike I am no longer going to watch your channel You are making me hate Lionel Nah I look forward to your videos So if you notice gears are dry then worm box is dry..can you post instructional videos for lubing steam and diesel.once again you do great service to the o gauge community. Paint work by Lionel is an abomination Ie 611 If you can check out Atlas engines They have old MTH tooling with proto3 and atlas master line with TMCC . I am sure this is old news to you

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Man William! It is so depressing, I am a happy go lucky, easy going person! It takes a lot to rattle me, but Lionel has succeeded and I just cannot watch big KZbinr after KZbinr touting how great their newest unboxing and Lionel product is every single time when it isn’t true. I hope Lionel listens and finally gets their act together, for their sakes and ours! In the meantime you know I will be buying more Atlas and MTH, I’m addicting to the hobby! Lol. Thank you sir!

[@MrDominick4950]

It’s called cutting corners and no doubt due to the increase that CHINA is charging LIONEL for production so they are doing a much cheaper way about producing these models the milk cars is one example they just don’t match up to the earlier models they are cheaper quality models and its so obvious so in a nut shell LIONEL is cutting corners and charging more money for their products and passing it on to the consumer and in my opinion this is totally unacceptable!!! Hey if your listening LIONEL you all better get with it and fix these problems.This sucks to high heaven cause now I dread on what I am going to discover when I start to un box brand new trains from this company which is quite a few UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment, Agreed! Other manufacturers have figured it out, time for Lionel to get their act together. 👍

[@johnabbe1973]

This could only happen when they have been left in the hot container ships too long, should be made in USA, sorry this happened to you! Just bought a Lionel post-war 624. runs like a jet take off! Made in the 1950’s! 😢

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I have several of the post wars locomotives also. Fun to run, only needing a little maintenance now and then. I’m really big into prototypical “or as close to it” they can get in O scale also, just wish they could make it with acceptable fit and finish. Other stuff made overseas doesn’t have nearly or I should say it rarely has issues. I’d definitely prefer if made in the USA more for the jobs it would create and better quality control, pride in products. I’m not even sure if the Chinese culture has any interest in model railroading. I’m sure they could find sure US workers that would be happy to work for them and help make great products. 👍

[@harryeisaman5156]

The hot shipping containers are definitely the problem. If Lionel would simply change from the flimsy plastic covering the engines to the material that MTH used they would not have a problem. The heat is too much for the thin cheap plastic that Lionel uses.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I’ll agree with that call out! For sure! Not the spot to cut corners. 👍🙂

[@walteranderson5090]

The financial arrangements Lionel had to agree to with China, puts them in a financial bind. In order to pull production out of China, it will cost Lionel a fortune. It will take years for them to ween their production away from China so that the quality-control can improve. That's just the money angle that corporations put up with to produce in China. You surrender your intellectual rights (patents)for your products. Then the financial angle/rule, after you convert your American dollars to the Chinese dollar. You cannot remove your Chinese dollar investment. China keeps it..🤯

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I know it’s not as easy as just moving, even getting their castings molds out would be an issue. They definitely got themselves in a tough position. If they cannot get out, three need to figure out how to work with the Chinese to make their products better. Unfortunately we have no options other than buying some products produced in China, the biggest difference is most other companies that produce their products over there, either don’t have the defect rates and problems Lionel products do, it the companies do better at inspecting them and weeding them out before they make it to the consumer. Thank you for the other details for sure! 👍

[@davidschaadt3460]

I haven't bought any new engines for about 15 years.Ive been buying prewar and postwar and MPC.Ive bought new rolling stock from Lionel.But I don't have $1500 bucks to spend on new engines anyway.And then to hear of so many problems with the new engines ,it's really sad. But I have lots of my older items to run. Real good videos,Sir.I hope Lionel gets your problems resolved .🚂🚃🚃🚃

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you David, all trains are fun! Postwar and MPC are awesome as well! My 2046 and Santa Fe 2234w set are two of my absolute favorites! Thank you for checking out our channel and for your comment! Greatly appreciated!

[@kencourtney4216]

It is really ashamed that Lionel doesn’t appear to care about quality control and their reputation!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, I was a HUGE fan until I experienced so many issues and still have several unresolved to this day. The ones I did fix cost me out of my own time and money.

[@genemanno1533]

So in conclusion a new engine is no better than a nice used one. At least the used one is open about any flaws. With Lionel one is rolling the dice. Understand the odds are in favor of the house not you. Convincing lesson to stay away from new made in china equipment purchased sight unseen. Thank you😊

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Yes! See, I fell for it. I mainly purchased preowned Lionel Legacy until I did my first preorders in 2019, them more in my 2020, 2021, and 2022. At first I thought it was a fluke or I was jinxed, then I started looking at my preowned purchases and found several missing some screws, or with loose screws, screw heads missing paint. I’m guessing whoever I bought them from must have already had them fixed or were doing maintenance, at any rate the preowned had maybe 1 in 20 with an issue, versus 50%+ on my preorders. I’ve switched back to mainly buying preowned, test run, or low usage. Safer bet for sure. Thank you for your comment and checking out the channel! Mike🚂

[@mrk1075]

HO Scale is better!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I have a lot of N, HO, and O, with some S and G! I won’t say anyone is better than the other because I like them all for different reasons. I started in HO as a kid so it will always have a place in my collection 👍

[@joegennari395]

That is just HORRIBLE!!! You pay Big Bucks and can't get a Quality products!!!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed

[@jamesking5217]

Unfortunatly, we have to live with foreign quality control or lack therof.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

It is unfortunate for sure.

[@hpelisr]

Chinese child labor, children building the trains. Lionel getting big money for that junk. American business in China making big profits.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Unfortunate for sure, I’m not opening that can of worms. It’s a terrible course the manufacturing and big business world has chosen, along with so many other broken things in our world due to greed. I’ll leave it at that. Thank you for your comment.

[@davidschaadt3460]

Yes ,what do you expect from ten year olds.🔧🪛😩.Just kidding.But it's just a shame.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, it is a shame.

[@Walt1960]

Communist labor ain’t what it used to be.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Maybe that’s how they are retaliating, building bad products so America takes their business elsewhere. Like back home here in the US, where it should be. 😉

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

I have the B&LE iron ore set luckily there are no problems with the f7 AB locos. I did repaint the very cheap ore loads a different color, out of the box the ore loads suck big time

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s a cool set! I have had luck with several diesels, fit and finish and are good runners, they just cannot get the E and F units right for some reason.

[@DynamicDuo795]

You should look into making your own custom ore loads. I have a 12 car set of MTH Premier NYC two bay fishbelly coal hoppers which are very nicely detailed and I had a friend of mine make 12 custom coal loads for them and they look real. I agree 100% with you, coal and ore loads for hoppers are very cheap looking. Making your own is fun too.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I’m going to be making some for sure! I just need to find the time! Lol

[@RepublicanJesusthe2nd]

I like Atlas O stuff!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

💯 agree! I have a lot of it in my collection, I wish they would make some big steamers! MTH, Altas, and 3rd Rail are quickly becoming the bulk of my Fleet as I’ve sold off a lot of my Lionel Legacy and Visionline. What’s your favorite Atlas Locomotive and Railroad? Thanks for checking out my Video! 👍

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

I wouldn't put up with this crap from Lionel. I woukd send that shit right back where it came from and demand new ones or a full refund mike.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I tried that route on something they damaged and lost parts to during service, and on my Norfolk Southern F7’s. They said they are just toys and I’m being too picky. They are not even responsive to me at this point, almost tempted to hop on a plain and fly out there. Much harder to blow off a customer face to face. 😉

[@andyoutwesttrains]

@Motocraze40 2018 I would join you!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! 😉