2022 - Running a mainframe on your laptop for fun and profit

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WHY2025

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 70

@sundhaug92 2 жыл бұрын

Fujitsu still sells mainframes, but have announced end-dates for sales and support

@garanceadrosehn9691 Жыл бұрын

There's also the "Michigan Terminal System" (MTS) which was developed by a consortium of Universities. It multuser timesharing system which was *mostly* open-source and developed and in production into the mid-1990's. It could support a few hundred users at the same time, given a big enough mainframe. I know some of my friends are still running it on top of Hercules. Thanks for the talk. I hope to come back to check out Hercules sometime soon!

@christopheroliver148 Жыл бұрын

I demoed that to one of my old math teachers who studied at UMich just to give him some heebie jeebies. ;-) What I really wish is that we could legit run OpenGenera on our laptops.

@bernardvanderhelm4407 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jeroen, great speech! Great to see that hercules-390 is still in use!

@reformationfan 7 ай бұрын

Great talk, I am a retired mainframe software engineer. The operating system you demonstrated on is MVS 3.8 which was current in the mid 80's, in fact the put level of the software was 8505. This might have been the last release of MVS before MVS/XA which you mentioned which extended the address spaces from 16M to 2G. The latest releases of zOS (last time a checked) do run on the Hercules emulator which is no toy. I know of a company (over 20 years ago) which used Hercules for a few months before they could acquire a Z800 mainframe.

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

MVS 3.8 was current in the 70, that's when I started with in. It was succeeded by MVS/SP I and then II, those were not free. XA came in the 80s.

@SuperHaunts Жыл бұрын

Thanks SO MUCH for reminding me just how far we've come with computers & user-friendliness! How I functioned back then, I can't believe.

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

Dave Plummer (Daves Garage) has a video where he visits IBM's manufacturing plant. I highly recommend it.

@maschwab63 Жыл бұрын

MVS380, VSE380, and VM380 is available, partitions V=R memory between the 16M and 2G line. TCP/IP is scheduled to be included in TK5 Update2 by Jan 2024. Intercomm (cics clone) is now included.

@kevincozens6837 Жыл бұрын

I ran some Fortran programs on an IBM 360 and 370 back in the day. I also did a little bit of programming in assembler for the machines. I still have the book on IBM 360 Assembler language. It could be fun seeing if Hercules could be used to run some old programs.

@ricksarvas6563 Жыл бұрын

From the Moshix KZbin videos I've seen, the answer would be "Yes". The turnkey system shown in this video is provided with a number of compilers and sample programs.

@augurcybernaut4785 Жыл бұрын

Good times man…! Tracing down operations in their registers….

@Gumbier_Than 7 ай бұрын

I tried. Maybe I'm not worth my salt but I couldn't get any COBOL to run in Hercules. 😅

@joev2567 Жыл бұрын

DASD = Direct Access Storage Device, not "attached".

@JeroenBaten Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Will verify and correct my slides.

@joedeshon Жыл бұрын

And we pronounced it "DAZ-dee".

@athinkingmeat 2 жыл бұрын

Very cool talk.

@alexloktionoff6833 6 ай бұрын

From my point of view mainframes are transactions crunchers, simple throughput number corners are supercomputers.

@Drew-Dastardly Жыл бұрын

Can I suggest simh as an excellent mainframe emulator? I have a DEC-10 and a PDP-8 permanently running as background jobs. I telnet in from time to time.

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

I found one mainframe in its supported computer systems, and it's not from IBM. Everything is minicomputers, perhaps microcomputers - I didn't check the iNtel folder. DEC did not make mainframes, IBM and The Bunch did. And Fujitsu, Hitachi, NEC - possibly clones with extensions.

@smakfu1375 Жыл бұрын

The mainframe is great for many reasons, but why do its cheerleaders always need to do phallus sizing comparisons, especially when there's a lot of fancy hardware beyond IBM's moat. A Z16 Telum four drawer systems is (physically) 32 compute processors, with 256 cores and 512 threads with a max of 40TB of RAM. Which is fine, especially since their IPC throughput is impressive and raw clocks are high, but if brute compute bragging rights is what you're about, then commodity x86 (in specialized form) can easily beat mainframe hardware. You can get a shared-memory modular NUMA chassis Bullsequana-SH320 that will scale up to 32 sockets (2 sockets by 16 modules connected via 2x UPI at 11.2 GTs, or 166 GBs) at 60 Sapphire Rapids cores per socket for a total 1920 cache coherent Golden Cove cores and 3840 threads (logical processors) with 128TB of RAM (all accessible from a single OS instance), which dwarfs the Z16. And again, this is in a single shared memory system that can also support 32 GPUs. Love or hate Intel, but Golden Cove cores are exceedingly powerful, comparable with Telum IPC at 6 decode, 10 issue, versus Golden Cove at 6 decode, 12 issue. A 32 socket, 1920 core Sapphire Rapids system is one hell of a monster. However, Telum has an obvious advantage in clock speed and a highly sophisticated inter-processor shared caching architecture. Telum also features interesting shared on-die inference accelerators that are especially well suited for certain types of overlay transaction analysis, actions that would be much harder to implement (from a code perspective) on Golden Cove cores, using per-core SIMD. But the REAL reason you buy a mainframe is for unmatched hardware and software integrated fault tolerance, resilience, IO interconnect and partitioning capabilities. While the commodity world has virtualization and containerization, it doesn't have anything nearly as sophisticated or configurable as LPAR's. With firmware support, the ability to carve out and configure resources for LPAR use (with firmware level dispatching and specialized support processors) is unmatched. Furthermore, this is all backed by in-frame processor level fault recovery with processor spares, ICF's for sysplex fault tolerance, etc., which simply doesn't exist outside the mainframe world. And it's all tightly coupled in a very expensive, vertically integrated stack of hardware and software. You pay for a mainframe because, as the old saying goes, nobody ever got shot for buying IBM. The mainframe world doesn't talk about four versus five nines, they talk in terms of cash reimbursements from IBM if ADP's payroll operations are impacted by a failure. So no, I don't think anyone should be talking about the mainframe because it's the biggest or baddest of computers (the most powerful shared memory computers are not mainframes). The mainframe is impressive because it's designed to run 24/7 and never, ever, fail in its intended purpose.

@JeroenBaten Жыл бұрын

And here I was thinking that mainframes are the top in throughput. OTOH I have no idea how they compare to this very impressive sounding hardware list. Thank God I always start with a disclaimer that I am not a mainframe export and definitely do not consider myself a cheerleader. For one, I have no pom poms....

@StanislavLapshansky 10 ай бұрын

Great presentation

@TheRealNewBlackMusic 7 ай бұрын

Does it have an option for CICS and vsam db2

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

Datasets are files, and users create their own more often that using those created by others, system datasets excepted. DASD aren't necessarily hard disks, emulated or real. There used to be drums, real and emulated.

@augurcybernaut4785 Жыл бұрын

Guess need to breakout my old CICS Copy Books

@maschwab63 Жыл бұрын

Kicks For Tso is installable.

@frankniethardt1813 Жыл бұрын

Actual TSO and CICS are different frontends running on top of OS/390.

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

Or OS and its successors. Both ran on S/360.

@sturm7130 Жыл бұрын

Great talk - thankyou. Mainframes are alive and well. Banking, automotive design & manufacturing, any large business with large databases - they all have mainframes. And the pay is much higher than for PC programmers because of scarcity.

@Gumbier_Than 7 ай бұрын

Don't forget insurance. 😁

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

@@Gumbier_Than and government.

@CoolheadSteadyhand Күн бұрын

depends on management ... I just retired (early at 61) from a mid-sized bank where the core is the AS400 (officially 'system i') which our team and the vendors (Fiserv, Euronet) have worked on for the last 30-odd years. It is current, high-end and the center of our universe - but with a couple of hundred VM's windows around it, some of which are clients to the main computer (with several LPAR's). Now, the problem is, the new managers want to do 'agile' and 'Java' and specifically NOT develop in RPG (ILE) or Cobol, but that is what our bank runs on. So I got out early, and 3 of my old colleagues will retire 3 years from now and that will leave them with 3 or 4 mediocre RPG programmers - not enough to keep all the custom stuff that we built running, and vendors certainly can't. We tried with Indian outsources, who come up with technically OK programmers, but with zero knowledge or insight of what the software will do and what it will communicate with, and by the time they learn a bit, they're gone. I see disaster around the corner. And it is not necessary. All they need is some investment in smart people to learn RPG and learn the subject matter.

@rndofpipowe Жыл бұрын

Where is the disco-ball??? That was my first thought 😊

@cbbcbb6803 Жыл бұрын

Is there a version of Cobol-85 available?

@maschwab63 Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately no. Not even 74. Stuck with 68.

@bobdobalina838 Жыл бұрын

"You stick that into a token ring hub, which you have laying around, as one does." LMAO.

@jfbeam Жыл бұрын

Well, if you _do_ have a token hub, it will be "just laying around"... there's no way you'd still be using it. (I've seen plenty of token ring gear. And yes, it's just gathering dust on a shelf.)

@nathanmeans1548 Жыл бұрын

Always loved the days when the token got lost... on an AS/400-based token ring network.

@bobdobalina838 Жыл бұрын

@@nathanmeans1548 - lol, good times. 4 or . .. . wait for it. .. 16MEGAbytes? :D

@CoolheadSteadyhand Күн бұрын

@@nathanmeans1548 still worked on one until 9 months ago when i retired, and I can guarantee you that everything is TCP/IP now. Thank God.

@mrpugster Жыл бұрын

holy shit, I've not seen those screens since 1996 haha

@CodeAsm 2 жыл бұрын

z/OS i think was 60gb of DASD images and somewhat old. You arent supposed to have it without the mainframe tho. :P

@jfbeam Жыл бұрын

In a way, so was VMS, but DEC sent me a copy by mistake. (complete with a license, as I recall) It's a huge stack of CDs, but I have a "white" alpha, so it won't boot. (those were designed for Windows NT.)

@CodeAsm Жыл бұрын

@@jfbeam cool :D you kept them?

@jfbeam Жыл бұрын

@@CodeAsmTechnically. Yes. If you'd asked 20 years ago, I'd know what corner to point to. These days, who knows what box they're in... and where that box is. The little box with the Tru64 discs should be with it. (that's like half a dozen CDs.) Solaris and Oracle? I know where those are. 🙂 (It was a much different world back then. $5 for everything Oracle had. $10 for a boxed Solaris set. $49 for Tru64, and they sent a complete copy of VMS, too. SCO was free.)

@jfbeam Жыл бұрын

@@CodeAsm I found Tru64 (5.0), SCO, and BeOS. Still looking for VMS. From the waybill it's OpenVMS.

@CodeAsm Жыл бұрын

@@jfbeam i wish i or my dad ordered those for now fun. Ow well hehe. Youll find them someday maybe. I love the old 8bit machines my dad gave me. He isnt into them anymore anyway. Cant safe everything tho, space. I might end up with similiar boxes, with unkown contents 🤭

@MrErikb81 Жыл бұрын

5:31

@computerpro123abc 10 ай бұрын

WHERE IS THE FUN AND PROFIT??????? VERY TIME CONSUMING AND DIFFICULT TO LEARN. I WAS A COLLEGE TEACHER AND IT TOOK YEARS TO PRODUCE' GOOD IBM PROGRAMMERS MIN 2YEARS AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE. AT 4 YEAR COLLEGES THEY WOULD STRETCH IT OUT TO 4 YEARS!!!! IT WAS NOT VERY MUCH FUN FOR STUDENTS???

@CoolheadSteadyhand Күн бұрын

In 1990 as a Sociology graduate, me and many others like me were recruited and in 3 months we were good programmers. It's not difficult to learn RPG, it is a powerful language and does anything you need it to do. The Bank I just retired from still has my programs doing POS transaction processing and EMV-card validation etc.

@computerpro123abc Күн бұрын

@@CoolheadSteadyhand Yes you were working 40 hrs per week x 12 weeks= 480 hrs working with RPG and getting paid to produce!!! IN A COLLEGE RPG COURSE IT IS 50 HOURS PER SEMESTER AND YOUR NOT BEING PAID(ITS THE REVERSE YOUR PAYING THE SCHOOL). COLLEGE 480 HOURS = 9 SEMESTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! = 27 CREDITS!! IN RPG!!! THAT IS QUITE A DIFFRENCE!!! (27 CREDITS * 333=$ 8991) IN A COLLEGE THAT WOULD COST YOU $8991 AND TAKE 4.5 YEARS!!!!!!!! NOW YOU CAN SEE HOW FOOLISH IT IS TO COMPARE OJT TRAINING TO COLLEGE TRAINING!!! I TAUGHT AT TRADE SCHOOLS, COMMUNITY COLLEGES, 4 YEAR COLLEGES, GRADUATE SCHOOLS IN NYC. OJT AND TRADE SCHOOLS WERE ALWAYS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY COLLEGE TRAINING, BECAUSE THEY FOCUSED ON ONE SUBJECT. (COLLEGES SELL YOU A LOT OF JUNK COURSES, TO KEEP TEACHERS EMPLOYED!!!), WHEN I TAUGHT OJT TRAINING EVERYTHING WAS COVERED IN 1 WEEK. THAT WAS ALWAYS A SHOCK TO COLLEGE GRADS WHO THOUGHT THEY HAD A SEMESTER TO LEARN A NEW PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE. MY 6 MONTH TRADE SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO WERE MOSTLY MINORITY STUDENTS WERE VASTLY BETTER THAN COLLEGE GRADUATES. (CLASSES AND PRACTICE AT TRADE SCHOOLS WERE USUALLY 60 HOURS PER WEEK FOR 6 MONTHS. DOING JUST PROGRAMMING, NO JUNK COLLEGE COURSES ADDED TO INFLATE THE BILL). IN THAT RESPECT TRADE SCHOOLS IN THE 1970'S WERE VERY INTENSIVE JUST LIKE OJ. THE WORSE STUDENTS I EVER HAD WERE LAZY GRAD STUDENTS WHO DID NOT WANT TO DO ANY WORK!! WHEN I STARTED MY FIRST COMPANY IN NYC IN THE 1970'S I MADE THE MISTAKE OF BEING VERY NAIVE!!! DURING THE SUMMERS, I WOULD HIRE COLUMBIA, NYU, STANFORD, HARVARD COLLEGE STUDENTS TO DO PROGRAMMING PROJECTS!! THEY NEVER FINISHED ANY PROJECT, I WOUD GIVE THEM THE SPECS FOR PROGRAM I WANTED AND THEY WOULD NEVER COME BACK!!!! I LEARNED QUICKLY FOR MY FREE LANCE PROJECTS, HIRE TRADE SCHOOL GRADS, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS OR EXPERIANED PROGRAMMERS, ( AVOID IVY LEAGUE COLLEGE STUDENTS). I WAS PARTNERS IN A COMPUTER LEASING CO, WE HAD IBM 360'S, 370'S, SYS 3'S THAT WE LEASED TO COMPANIES IN THE NYC AREA. AGAIN COLLEGE ENGINEERING STUDENTS WERE A FLOP(NEVER COMPLETED OR FIXED ANYTHING!!!( TED THE TOP COLUMBIA PHD ENGINEERING STUDENT(RECOMMENDED BY CHAIRMAN OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY ENGINEERING) STOLE CHECKS!! I HAD A SALE FOR A MAINFRAME PRINTER FOR $35,000, THAT HAD TO BE FIXED(I HAD A 1 WEEK DEADLINE). TED AND THE AIR FORCE(VET) WORKED ON THE PRINTER FOR A WEEK AND COULD NOT FIX IT(ALL THEY DID WAS STEAL CHECKS). MY MOTHER AND I FIXED THE PRINTER IN 2 HOURS AND COMPLETED THE SALE.(SHE COULD LISTEN TO ME!!!(IT TOOK 15 MINUTES TO TEACH HER HOW TO READ EHGINEERING DRAWINGS!!!!!). NOW I DO NOT EVEN THINK TED OR THE AIR FORCE VET COULD EVEN READ THE ENGINEERING DRAWINGS!!! (THE PROBLEM WITH THE PRINTER WAS VERY SIMPLE). FOR MY PART TIME JOBS: HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WORKED OUT WELL, SOME OF THEM WORKED FOR ME FOR 2 OR 3 YEARS, UNTILL THEY WENT OFF TO COLLEGE. CONCLUSION: OJT AND TRADE OR VOCATIONAL SCHOOL TRAINING IS VASTLY SUPERIOR TO COLLEGE TRAINING. ((U.S. News and World Report states that the average cost of bachelor’s programs is $333 per credit hour.)

@computerpro123abc Күн бұрын

@@CoolheadSteadyhand yes i agree your sociology degree training was a ToTal waste of time and money(for an RPG programmer).

@CoolheadSteadyhand Күн бұрын

@@computerpro123abcthe point is, anybody with any degree that shows they are smart and analytical can become an excellent programmer in a couple of months. Got me a career of 34 years and a good pension. No need for an IT degree.

@rasherbilbo452 Жыл бұрын

The tragedy of LSD overdose.

@mercster Жыл бұрын

Extremely odd.

@professortrog7742 Жыл бұрын

“The Dutch speak very well English”. Ffs…

@JeroenBaten Жыл бұрын

In the Netherlands, the English language can be spoken by the vast majority of the population, with estimates of English proficiency reaching 90%[1] to 93%[2] of the Dutch population. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_in_the_Netherlands). And I KNOW I'm NOT a native speaker.

@oneeyedphotographer 6 ай бұрын

@@JeroenBaten The professor was referring to your unusual grammar.

@CoolheadSteadyhand Күн бұрын

we call that 'double dutch'. A dutch person is on vacation in England in a pub and wants a steak, but they want it rare, not well done, but doesn't remember the words for it, so he says 'I would like a bloody steak', and then the server says 'OK, and do you want some fucking potatoes too?'.